Reminding you that much is the most illogical attitude when you when you live long. All kinds of strange things happen felicitations. Hi i'm brad. Draft is ethan phillips. Either i'm james doing hi. this is renee. oh bears and why i play shape shifter bodo. There's a creature growing on your shoulder. Hi this is max credential rob from deep space. Nine o'clock on enterprise hop blah blah. And then i heard my voice say usa car. You should have said no computer. I said it right. you're wrong. Hi this john. Delancey i am. George decay in part because of the nature of genes vision but also because of its message of diversity and inclusion. Good to see you you too good. We're in the middle of a blizzard. In new york's pretty nasty high today. It's great to have michael dorn and he's in a new film called agent revelation. Michael welcome to the podcast. It's a privilege and honor to talk to you like very much. What i like about this character in agent revelation is the fact that he is really just trying to make amends and in that kind of breaks. The mold of how we see our original see billionaires. Although bruce wayne's an exception of course so what what was it that attracted you to play this guy. Actually just just what you said. A guy has done some pretty horrible rotten things and and he's trying to atone for which is a positive trait. But i think that the the issue for him and this is kind of something i added to the character is that you know. He realizes that no matter how much he tries to tone. It'll never be completely all right and that's just because you know the decision decisions you make in your life that he made our decisions. That can't go away you know. You can't like unring. The bell as they say is he's really you know and you know it wasn't on the page or the description but i put that that's the thing that he struggling with on the inside Yeah i talked to derek You know from his place and he was in hong kong to time and he said you were that you were the choice. You're the you're the actor wanted for that role. Well i was. I was very fortunate. I mean the the you know the script was really good and the territory was great. And you know working with derek was was was wonderful and easy and you know kind of your job and you laughed a little bitch at some food and you went home as you were building to character. Was there a moment where you felt like you were there with him. Not really you don't really have an opportunity With with these movies on this level to like if it's a big movie and you've got you know six months to prepare than than he asks you know or if you're on a tv series and grows on you and you know the middle of the second season you go i get it. You know or middle versus doesn't matter you just don't have that luxury on these movies. You have to kind of go in do the role and then at home. I do like that. You're you're you and derek are doing jiji. And of course we're used to taichi on next generation. So that was that must have been cool to kind of revisit that well you know it's funny it was It's one of those moments. And i. i don't know. Derek told you but you know dirk involved in martial arts his whole life and so. I'm kind of teaching him. Not when the cameras were rolling kind of teach mike okay. This is what you do this. And then it kind of dawned on me. I said you know you never know you know. Somebody's background so i said. Do you know martial arts. He says well actually. I studied at my whole life. And i went. Oh great you know. Try to teach you and he says no. No i want you to. Even if even if i know you know this this regiment or whatever the case for the movie you have to be teaching me and even if even if you're teaching me wrong you still have to teach me. Yeah quick or the For the same as so. That was cool. But yeah and i you know i did minimal amount of taichi i mean when i look back on. It was a lot at the time. It seemed like a lot because a lot of stunts and there was a lot of martial arts in in the in the warf stunts. So yeah i remember i was there in ninety six at the junket for star trek first contact at the four seasons beverly hills and you came in and i i think it was really cool. Is that you went into how you developed warf that you didn't use contractions his fighting style you went with dennis maddalone the senate coordinator and figured out a way he would fight. That would be very different and it was cool that you cook that much time in and really and i think that's why the character resonate so much because there's a lot of effort put into it once you realize that you're going to be a lot of time with this character. You have a lot. Invested in and gene roddenbury to something that i think was very smart with a For producers and i think a lot of producers from that generation. Kind of like that. I asked him like the second second episode of the first season. I said what he want scared to. What do you want me to do. And he said basically making sure that. Was you know like christmas to two actors. You have an opportunity to actually create something and when you do that you have a lot invested So you start thinking of things to okay. How can i improve this character. How can i make him. You know less this. And more this or whatever the case and and luckily for me unlike a lot of actors not on our show of actors have to kind of go and claude scratch for people to write stuff for them. I was lucky. The writers just took off with what. I brought to the character and ran road. Some incredibly wonderful things In next generation and deep space. So so i was very fortunate. You were very lucky that when you went to d. s. Nine ron moore was there who had a knack for writing these amazing klingon stories. Yeah you just piling on piling them on i. I'll tell you a very funny story. Is that while how funny it is. But i thought it was very cute. That whenever rod moore would be would write a clown episode. He grow a goatee. And whenever i see him he be clean-shaven an i'd say hey route ninety allah and then when i next time i see if he has a goatee s warf episode goes. Yeah so great. That's great. I gotta say the the the best episode there was some great episodes but i thought the best episodes for war were of the two that he wrote on deep space which is once more into the breach and soldiers of the empire. Oh yeah fantastic fantastic. Yeah yeah there's so many You know to to pick and And i it's just it and you know i've heard about your your pitch for a series and it totally dovetails what. I've always thought that warf is the ultimate klingon being raised by humans. He has the best qualities of that and yet still follows klingon traditions and can really be in a great leadership position to guide the empire back to back to honor back to you know the details and the rituals that they did in the past and not so much on conquering as they were you know during especially during kirkstall the main the main scene of louis of the of the spinoff that i wrote is basically survival does a warrior if if he knows his way of life is going away to go out in a blaze of gory or blaze of glory or gory or does he adapt to continue the line. You know. I mean it's you know it's a choice and you know the choice that warf made is the idea that we have to adapt. And that's what warriors do and so. Yeah so i was. I was like. I said it was very it was. It was really really easy to write. Because i know the character so well and i know that world of the klingon world so well that it was just super easy turned out really. Well turn a really nice in all good things. I actually wasn't happy. That way workforce portrayed. I just didn't think that was really. What would have happened to him in. I really felt that he would be somebody in in a bigger position. Power maybe the next chancellor well and i think that the producers have a net act at times for saying to themselves and i can understand it. saying to themselves You know everybody expects this. So let's do something different. And i think that's that's where they they got. They said you you know. Of course they expect warf did in fact there was an episode where it was an alternate universe and we were at war with the klingons wasn't on the ship. He was with the klingons because he wasn't even seen in this alternate universe on the enterprise and everybody was saying well. You know you gotta have war you know in one of the battle cruisers you know fighting and they said now you know what everybody expects that. So let's just not do it. And i think i think it works In some cases. And i think it works against you in other cases. Yeah i always thought it was interesting when when the next generation movies were going to bring back worth this time you know on the air price you know the funny thing is i contact. It was brilliant. Kelly william and then after that they just kind of threw me in there and which i thought was odd. You know they didn't even like take take time to do something interesting they said. Well mr wharf. What are you doing here pretty much. You know you gotta go. What am i doing here so so. I thought that i don't know why they did that. I don't know maybe they just were so focused on data car that they just didn't have the time to to write a return But you know it. It's one of those things where it's not my show. It's i'm just. I'm not one of the producers and so you just have to kind of trust you know what they do but i thought it was. I thought it was just odd. And i definitely kind of made it known that i was kind of going really guys were. What are you doing here. He was. I found that a music to say the least i would love to see war found picard. I mean the the series really kinda cries out for him a little bit. You know. Maybe this i i would think so. That is my feeling. But like i said you know the producers have their own ideas about how they want to Portray or you know. Tell these stories and you know. War is Not figured in though so. But that's okay. I mean the way i look at it. Is you know as you know. I've done more episodes and more hours than anybody. You know on the original movie and eleven years on a series and and you know five of for four of our movies and so i. I've done a lot. So i don't have a know i don't feel slighted at all it but the other two is that you know people go michael. Don't you want to do it. I said at first when they ask what if they ask you know i in fact i was asked to come back to discovery. It didn't work out at first. I went why they'd be interesting us at omega three hours of makeup every morning i kinda west so anyway but i think that. I think that i'm a fan of a patrick anyway. So you know. I'm i'm prejudice so I always hope for the best but you know they have their own ideas and that's the way it should be. We got lucky last Last holidays when we actually got to see him do his christmas carol on small theater here in new york pre covid. And what a treat that was. He's made a. I saw him do well. We we also do that and and also we saw. I saw him do That scottish play it was it was a fabulous. Evening agree you know. Recently there was movie unbelievable and it reunited a lot of track alumni. What was that experience like for you to see and you saw people that you necessarily didn't work with some of the other shows. There was all the people from star trek. I worked with before. Okay pretty much. I mean or i or new you know so it was just it was able and it's a very you know took them a long time to to get to to where when we were shooting and lot of changes and and i you know it's been so long i just kinda go and i gotta say i was going to Walter caney we were sitting there talking. It goes eight michael. Do you know what this is about like. i think. I think it's kind of transmuted a couple of times over the over the over the years you know because when i read it it was it was a particular story and then towards when i didn't you know what i did the the The part it totally changed. Take a break. But back in the millisecond undergo attitude. Well maybe a little longer back on track capsule with more conversations from every trick generation. Got a credit. You replace the president of the united states on heroes. I think that was pre-obama too. Which is pretty cool. Yes it was. I got the role. Because we i was i was reading the producers and it was during the george bush times and so it was and they said yeah pretty rough about what i said. Hey don't get me started. I think they like that is it. Oh yeah let's hire now is a great show and i actually. I wanted to see more of it but we just got a little bit of a glimpse but that's the way it is sometimes by my favorite thing after star trek that i did i did. I did a a bunch of things that were really nice but my favorite. I did castle for like success. Oh yeah yeah. And that was just a joy that was a real jewelry. Stomach ache was amazing to work with nathan. Was i mean they were just great to work with and really professional really good and a good time to. They weren't a like. There was a scene where i was supposed to go to stop and go. Hey you know you need this. And i can help you and and it was. You know the scene is always kind of a sexy little sane and after the guy said cut she goes. Are you trying to hit on me if you gotta ask not doing a very good job. But she was she was funny but man right there as an actress and and nathan was such a good guy and they both were those kind of actors that i knew when When i first started that were kinda giving and and there. There are certain protocols you know like he's the star the show and when i came in my dressing room there was a present from him. Nice and you know you. Just don't see that these days you know so so that was an i love. I love the part. I mean it was such a fun. Par yeah yeah great series. And that's not enough to talk to both of them during the run in this series and i echo exactly what you said very down to earth and very cool you know. They both have done Dc animated movies. I would love to see you do on a ducks i have done. You know the animated stuff from years ago though the tv stuff but you know all all of that is. It's such a different world these days. I mean there's the so much out there it's really you kind of get lost in the shuffle. A little bit but But like i said. I don't think though the war Spinoff is dead yet. I think that at some point maybe sometime in the future. But in the meantime i started. I wrote my western hope. This is what i'm cool. Yeah because i'm a big western guy. I'm oh yeah. I know westerns. That i know directors and the actors in the stories. I mean everything you know. So and i really had this. This really good idea. And i started to write it in. My manager was very encouraging. And so that's what we're doing right now. Excellent it's it's warf with spurs is nothing. He's nothing like worth. Yeah of course lead on media. So so i'm really. You know concentrating on that. And and i would like to do that. And you know to be honest. All the people that i've met over the last twenty years or so are all in the same position where there's some people that are producers. Some people have ends to producers. They're direct talker. Fay's and a lot of different people that i think i can bring together for this show and people have already interest said. Hey look you know. I'd like to to help you and so we'll see what happens but but i that's. That's i my main thing. That i want to on act i wanna start it and i wrote it. I want to direct. Oh excellent. I mean paramount plus does need content. Yes they do. I mean that's the thing you start a channel. You're going to need a lot of content. That's just not and the funny thing is that i would think that they would. They would leap at a at a work series. Or you know a movie so so we'll see but you know the funny thing about all the stuff you gotta have an in. You gotta have somebody you can call fire at paramount and go. Hey how you doing joe. Hey michael what she got. Well i got this thing. come on. let's talk about you know. Yeah that's what you need. So we'll see what happens. Well you know getting back to western time. I grew up watching westerns. And i mean that was really the first thing and then got into sci fi as well but i really the one western. I keep coming back to. And it's really fairly recent unforgiven. Clint eastwood oh. Yeah i would i. It was a beautiful movie. Oh my god yeah the fact that he had to drink to be able to do all those bad things and look and just the you know the really wonderful actors. Oh my god yeah wonderful. You know. Just just amazing. I can't say enough about it and it was really before that there was. There really was a drought of really good westerns. Now you know people you know. They had a day made efforts at it. Yeah nothing like that. And i'm i'm very much a fan of clint would fan of of tarantino own coppola in all these guys. Of course the guys. You know the forwards the hawks The william wyler's the holiday But when i wrote You know the the western i did. I didn't copy them. That's one thing. I didn't do what i did was. I took a page from From quinn turn tino. And he doesn't really say this but he's a guy that that did what he wanted to do. You know yeah and right which you want to write right which you think somebody else were. Why right which you have you know your experience basically. Yeah and that's what. I did of really like a self editor. 'cause what i'll talk writing at go now i've seen that before. No we're gonna take that out you know or yeah no not that. Somebody said that before. I'm not going to say that you know is kind of fresh. For the character in this western. Is he. what what. What's his weapon of choice. He has a short gun. A forty four caliber short. Break gun that. The colt company made for him like that that he cares little personal gun and he carries a henry rifle. Yeah and that's that's his. That's his kind of goto weapon spending love the way. Danny glover will henry and Silverado now is is so cool. I'm not a big gun person. But somehow in westerns really kind of fits so hard the mythology of it you and the thing is that I wanted to have a a gun. But i wanted to be special. Dislike member wanted dead or alive. Oh sure yeah weird winchester thing. I wanted something that was distinctive and you had have something like and this guy is well-known enough to where the cult company would just go. Okay what he want well. I want a big caliber. Gun is what it is now. And he's you know like i said it's a very good story. I'm really happy with it. So we'll see what happens. Yeah hey good luck with. That sounds awesome. I would love to see you do something like that. So he's quick on the draw. No he's not he's not oh and the reason is is that I mean how many times have you heard that here. In fact it's about being deliberate. That's right you know it's about you know being able to hit what you shoot at the first time and if you're fast you may not hit. I just love your passion for the project. i think it's gonna be. I'm really hoping sometimes gets made because passion is so important anything anybody does. Oh yeah oh yeah. Definitely definitely well and i got like i said two things. I think that you know the the war. Spin-off is not dead. And this thing is is something that i that is different and i think it's I think that people would be like. Wow you know a plus you know with the whole stuff that i've done with star trek following. Which would help cheer and so so. I hope this you know like i said it. It's one of those things where we're still plugging away as they say star. Trek had a a western episode. The it's of course. And you know. And i told by so okay. I want the hat like john wayne. Like when he was in the the the The army you know. Oh yeah yeah her. Badchi and and She wore yellow ribbon and the that kind of shirt that has the buttons coming. You know like in a like a almost like chevron and and i wanted a gun and they couldn't do it like steve mcqueen had in them seven. Oh my god it was a very. He had a very odd holster ups. And and i thought that was coolest thing but they couldn't do it in time. He also one of my all time favorites because look at all the people that became stars after that movie it was like amazing new so i mean it was brilliant. And there's a shot if you ever get a chance and you're watching a final shot is where poorest buckles says you know audio. Cd it goes back to be with that with that With that woman and the shock is in the foreground is her and she's you know grinding born. He rides down and he comes into. You know the little area and in a little cutout the wall you see mcqueen and you'll brenner way off in the distance. And it's this shop that i didn't see until recently. Wow yeah it was. Just a great shot. It was a great shot. Yeah four and i love the little the new orleans where he comes back and she knows he's there and she smiles. Oh it's like she. It's the little things that sometimes an actor does would al dialogue. Just that just really gets you in the moment and makes you remember things and you've has had many moments like that is that exactly. That's that's the way i've i've directly before. And that's the way. I like to direct tedious to direct. Because you really are constrained but When i have an opportunity to do something that's from the beginning It's always one process. I've got. I've got all the stuff in my head you know. I've got all directors. It is as running around in my head. so how. yeah i mean. Don't you mentioned some great ones. There was also one of the one of the fantastic things that like. I think Godfather one and two of the best survey and there was a scene where michael makes a speech says. Hey we can't wait. We gotta kill this guy and he. He's explaining what to do. And coppola takes us slow in its crawl at uc michael go from stop knows kid to the godfa yet and us and spill affects. There's no you know. Three sixty movements is just pushing. You think that's the thing i love about. And that's what i do. I mean special effects to me or like you know something you add just to put icing on the cake. But you know the the acting and the camera is is all import. Oh absolutely i. If you haven't seen it. I do urge you to see the re-cut of godfather three much better really makes more sense and the original version and it is really it really. It belongs with the other two now. I think it really did a good job. That is that is some talk. It is but i know seriously. I thought they really. It's like the original version. It just seems like forever to get going this time. They just jump right in and and sure enough. He's being the godfather and he's trying to you know he's trying to go to legitimate and that's his aim at the beginning of the movie but yet people are coming after him because they need something. They need his money. They re cut was so much better than the original cut and they added some scenes that were cut out. There's a nice little scene between him. And andy garcia and a helicopter. That was not used in original where he's giving him advice and it was like. How can you leave this out. But but yet cocoa got to do the cut he wanted and it the movie benefited from it. No doubt definitely check it out if you can. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I am so behind. Both the wharf idea. And also the western. I would love to see those come to light. I appreciate it man thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. I have fond memories of that junket back in ninety six. All view were there was a moment in the hallway. Were i think you were coming in. And patrick was moving and i heard you guys like arguing like a fake argument in the hallway spun wa remember that that was great like you walk in with a big smile on your face. I remembered i thank you again and i look forward to for everybody to see agent revelation. It's to see you as a billionaire. I like that idea to thank you.