Shane Barker Teaches Influencer Marketing and Personal Branding
Hey before we get started want to let you know that. The show is both on instagram and twitter under UNSTRUCTURED P. Please come by check. Check it out if you like the show. Say Hello and tell me what you think. Thanks my name is Eric and this is unstructured or we have dynamic dynamic informal conversations with some amazing people. Today we're joined by. I'm not sure how to describe Shane. I've just seen as an internet marketer. Would that be a good description. Saying that's very valid now at twenty twenty five years and counting my friend. That's all good good Lord. I started when I was three and I was a very very early adopter diapers and stuff and anyways. It's a long story. We'll get into. I'm sure during the PODCAST. Oh absolutely absolutely Louis but if you're in a twenty three year Beck inhale well days. It was a oh well. Yeah Yeah I was in the chat rooms. I was I think hot Stephanie. He's sixty eight. I'll say just for just to be kosher. Well how did you mark it back then because I mean obviously facebook didn't exist. I know you did social and you kind of roll into Oh and I did a social but there was no social. No I did I mean back in. I'm trying to think what year it was. Make sure talking about the right years. I mean I really had my my own businesses so what I would do is when I had my own businesses we would go. I mean I would hire everybody or at hire people on a freelancer. Now it's freelancer and now it's you know there's some other ones but what I would do back in the day was I had my own business. I would start to hire people to do stuff that I didn't know how to do which was a lot of things online right so somebody help me out the website hanging somebody to help me the logo. Oh and I was one of the early early like people that would hire freelancers on these websites. Remember I met with a Buddy Pete's buddy that was I think he'll get a freelance and I'm hiring hiring these people for you know for a great prices and they're like showing me how to do this stuff. My knowledge online at most. My knowledge was often because I was actually opening restaurants which is another life ago right and I had some products that it was bringing the market as. I really need to build a website but I had no idea how to do it so my degrees in marketing. But I use like you know my son's not listening. It's like one percent of what I've learned in college if that unlike tone my son. He's in college right now to get your degree. So he's going to hear this like see you're not using ninety nine percent of what I'm learning Mike. Whatever I'm not good with numbers but give or take ninety nine percent right? I mean like don't don't talk back to me get into college so I'm in stay there So yeah so now. It's you know I learned learned anything that was coming along in the space whether it be social or Seo or website just through freelancers. I've hired literally thousands of people to work on my own projects from my own stuff and then for other projects that we've had going as well so I mean now thirty four six person team. That's all remote seven international team. It's all remote note that has like a full twenty four hour circle that I run so it's kind of a crazy little deal okay. So you're essentially Shane Barker Marketing Inc.. I mean yeah I mean. It's I Call Chamber Consulting Jeanne. I haven't An LLC that nobody would even know if I told you the name of LLC people would never even heard of that. Because there's a I just thought it was an LLC put together Not Super Creative. Just put it together just so you know for liability and all the other fun stuff. That's out there but but yeah people Siemian. Shane Burke Dot Com. I mean that would be. That's my website but I have multiple companies I like get for graphics. Dot Co which is a graphic design website I have Content solutions which is dot. Io which is really building software people can put out you know mass masterpieces of content and get pr behind it. We do a lot of stuff behind that. So I mean it's like I said it's gone from you know getting s from doing seo before it was even call Seo like how do we get better like not even called rankings. We're like I just WANNA be number one and trying to figure that out and then we got really good with SEO and we've built websites but hate building websites because they're just kind of a nightmare with clients some stuff you know shut up to all my clients and earn nightmare which is pretty high percentage at this point. Thank goodness 'cause I got rid of the other ones but now it's a you know. Now we do. You know influencer. Marketing Eighteen is where a lot of people see me because I teach a class at UCLA. a personal branding how to be an influence or course and so. That's that's where mainly what I speak about but it really I'm I'm well versed in content marketing. Seo and really any part of digital marketing and online marketing I've got some pretty good shops. Okay now we're going to get right into influence or marketing honestly. Help explain to me. This not just Kim Kardashian spot. That sounds familiar. Kim Kardashian Kim Kardashian so what do you mean like how is it something other than just her. But Yeah essentially there's different views of influence or mark and I'd say the prevalent view is a a bunch of models who take pictures in front of a green screen and pretend they're elsewhere Yes so that there is some some truth to that that does happen. The thing is with influencer marketing. I think what happens is that you get into this thing of. That's what we think that it is right. That's always models it's always this. What's it's interesting that influence or marketing is? I really anybody can be influenced or right so I think it started off in and it's had some bad pr because of like like FRY right. Five best wasn't example. They're like Oh my God fry try vessels are you gotTa Watch out for influencers. Well really at the end of the day the Frye festival work get literally got people to spend too much money to go to an island. It did right. I mean people jumped on on and do it at at the end of the day now logistically. It wasn't good and they didn't have food or water. which last time I checked sucks? I've always had food or water. I mean place I've gone to festival is so I guess I've been like Super Lucky but then again I'm not going to follow somebody. Pay Ten grand for a ticket to a remote island. I'm a little over that I'm forty four and decided of the island or an Italian cruise ship. Yep which do you prefer cruise ship. I mean hello I mean I mean the island sounds fun until you get there and there's no water and then you start drinking seawater and you realize that's not the way to go shot up there. Christopher Columbus think he did that anyways Columbus or whatever his name was but yeah at the end of the day. It's like influencer. Marketing can be a lot of things the cool thing about influence or marketing is you can find when I say influencers. It's just you're talking about somebody. That has some kind of A. It has an audience that believes in the things that they do right so anybody can be an influence right. It could be a yoga instructor and have a thousand followers and be an influencer right so it doesn't always have to be the model. In fact I even depend on the product service I would say. Hey Watch out for the model that has two million followers unless you're Celine Anne book unless she's selling a course unless you're selling calendar I mean it just depends is on the product or service but that's the cool part about is if you're a brand you can find an influence that can push your product. The problem with it is is most people. Think I need to go to Kim Kardashian. Pay a million dollars for her to put this tattoo on her backside and for to take a picture of it and then you're going to sell a million tattoos right or fake tattoos or whatever that is that's old school all right. That doesn't work anymore. Like you have to put a strategy together and you have to really. There's a lot of software you can go find individuals influencers that you think are going to be a good fit so influencer marketing is going to be this. Because there's every influencers different what I mean by that is they have a different following. They have I mean there are some that are similar but the idea. This is is that you have youtube. You have tick Tock you you have instagram. You have twitter of all these different options platforms and people will say Oh. I tried an instagram influence or Jennifer. She's twenty three. She's got twenty five hundred followers and influence. Your marketing doesn't work okay. So first misconception then is it's not just instagram. Not just instagram right now instagram. There's a lot of leverage 'cause it's like the lifestyle right you're on instagram. Because you're drinking your Chai Tea and you've got your little poodle that's perfectly trained in your on your private jet. That's that's kind of this old school of life. Think of influence. Or that's that's what I want to be. That's why the class I teach. Ucla like the first thing we talked about is being realistic right. So so you probably not going to have a private jet with pink poodle and have Nike sponsor you right. It's probably going to take a little time for you to build out your brand. So we talk about branding and that kind of stuff which his whole nother conversation for a podcast but it really comes down to finding you know. It's we call AB testing so. You WanNa find different influencers flu answers on different platforms. So as we're talking about. You know the brand that says I've tried influence. America tried Jennifer on Instagram. She twenty thousand followers and we saw nothing happened right right so that doesn't mean that influence a marketing work. That means that Jennifer didn't work right or that means the content you did with Jennifer didn't work or Jennifer's audience isn't the right audience right so there's a lot of things you have to look at their or it's also the frequency of posts right so or it means I mean here's the thing. Pay Per Click if I had the greatest product in the world. But I don't market it correctly. Will anybody buy it. Probably not right it comes. I mean you'll see really crappy products that have phenomenal marketing and people buy them because the marketings phenomenal. It's the same thing with influence influence or marketing as a tool. This isn't something where you you pull back all your marketing budget and put one hundred thousand dollars into marketing influencer marketing gene. Pay That one actress one time to be able to get one post and just pray that it brings you all this money. It's a strategy ideas. You find different influencers on different platforms once you see somebody that's moving the needle same thing with pc right soon as you find a good sales funnel and you put the money behind that. It's the same thing with influence or marketing. Once you find it's actually not Jennifer. It's John John and John is fifty thousand followers. It looks like most of his followers in the Los Angeles area and also find out that the product that we're selling in Los Angeles area and they have to go to a store to pick it up. You're going to have a higher likelihood if somebody buying than if you Jennifer. That's in Sydney Australia. Because they're not gonNA be able to fly over and buy your fifty dollars Egypt right so I mean they. People don't understand the strategy behind it of what you really have to look at too. You know what's going to guarantee success but it's definitely going to help your campaign if you know what to look for curiosity drawn Ron Analogy. I've found sometimes that you have different guests. You're running a podcast now. So I'll be drawing things back and forth and ask you about that but some guests have have a bigger built in audience than other guests have but a lot of times the guests with the biggest audience have the least quote return for sure and have you found with the influencer. Let's Balkanize it. More or take down even more. Would it be a smarter. Play to fifty influencers of a thousand people but are highly engaged versus you know throwing out the big numbers at the other people you know smaller one with audiences always talking getting you know ten twenty comments every post even though they're really small. Yeah you hit the nail on the head. I mean absolutely so the thing is if you are a a pepsi or coke. Hey Go after Kim Kardashian if you swan eyeballs and you got a billion dollar budget I get it. If you're looking for overall eyeballs in. That might be a better play. You still have to figure out what your KPI's are what your key performance indicators like what is your. What are your goals right so you have to have goals with any campaign? I don't care if you're working the big influence or a small influence her but the problem is this. This is the analogy. I'm GONNA use just for you to answer your question so you go with the campaign with Kim Kardashian. Right and she has. I don't even know how many million twenty five million followers let's say right and then you have another one with Jennifer and there's ten Jennifer's. Let's just going to say you know. We don't have to ten different names. And they all have fifty thousand followers right. One with Kim is going to be very expensive. The one with these other influences that have let's say micro influencers for numbers sake. That's another thing too. That brands also look at numbers. The right that's that is a variable but it's not the number one variable so influencers getting paid too much money because you have two million followers and brands were saying. Hey you have two million but if you get five million I'll give you ten thousand dollars instead of two thousand and guess what happens fake followers right. So that's where that's the other thing is like and it's at the brand's fault but the brands are still chasing big numbers right and so you go. After big numbers in the here comes the big paycheck and then it doesn't work like Oh God it just didn't work well. It didn't work because first of all you're going after somebody has a lot of fake followers. And you also didn't look at their audience and there's there's just a lot of the messaging might not have been right. There's a lot of variables to that but let's go back to the one big influence or ten you know medium size or smaller influencers. So this is the analogy good. I was US so if I opened a restaurant. Where are you located Hampton Roads Virginia? Okay so let's say let's say I'm in Los if you're in a bigger city so let's say I'm in Los Angeles right and and I opened up. I opened up a restaurant and ten thousand people that come through in one night grand opening nights Friday night. Things are crazy. Well am I going to be able to go and and do what I call. Shake hands and kiss babies with. Can I talk to every single person who walks in that door no way. No physically can't right so that's Kim Kardashian. And that's her ten thousand comments. She's not gonNA respond to everybody. She's not going to have the time to do that right right so now if you we open a restaurant in your hometown and let's say there's two hundred people that show up. Am I going to be able to shake hands and kiss his babies. I would probably go right. That's the idea of it. So and then everybody that lives at restaurants is that was an awesome restaurant like that. Shane Guy came up out of nowhere. Helped us out. Did this refill their water. Like whatever this is right so the engagement rates can be a lot higher. Everybody leaving places like good food. Great Service everything was awesome. The one in L. A.. They could go house little fast. I'm not even sure who the owner was. Not that big of a deal but it would have been nice if they would have asked me my pin. So that's what we're looking at here. Engagements going to be a lot higher with the people the smaller following. Because because what they should be doing if you're an influencers responding to people hey Shan I really liked. That's jacket you're wearing. Where did you get that jacket? Hey John I bought it at Nordstrom's rack okay. That sounds cool. Hey what size there. What does that color it looks like a Emerald Green? No it's a forest screen okay. Great sounds like having that conversation. Brands should look at that. Because you should be able look at Kim Kardashian and realized that seventy percent of those people just like her but so they don't care about your restaurant right or they don't really so it's and it's also a frequency deal just because she posts wants that doesn't mean anything eight six years ago. Maybe it did. It's a frequency deal. People want to see it over and over and over in. There's just those variables where you have to look if if you go to an influence or that. They talk about the best product ever every single day. Guess what happens people start to go. God you really have a great life because every product you try is is the best ever. That's so weird because every product I try not the best over so I mean let's right and so you start to lose your audience so you can look at it influencers page and you look they look at the numbers. Oh man crazy numbers. All the engagement is great until you look at install emojis and all and they're talking about something different. Every day they're pimping their profile and the audience. Knows that. Because if you watch it's like here goes Helen talking about the best shoes Nike this week and last week she had a deed in the week before she had K.. Swiss and right. So you're you're starting starting and as a brand might not know that right away might not but if you would you can use software to find influencers. The problem is you have to nothing beats an eyeball test so I pull this list of one. Hundred influencers hired twenty of them. I've physically go and look at them and say okay. How often they posting content content? What kind of what kind of content are they posting right? Is it going to resonate with me if if I am. XYZ Shoe Company. And I'm and I'm not a trump fan and I don't look at their profile in their big thing is like trump's the best and I can't wait to get reelected robbing not going to be a good fit right in even if they have good numbers or don't have good numbers you you have to do. The research and I think people miss out on that step of like validating the influence I interview every influence for my campaigns every single one because I want to know where your hat I'm going to say. Hey well what do you know about. ABC Company and they're like. I don't know anything I just know. You guys are doing a thousand bucks a post rent Ram I mean why would I even hire them right but could flip the script as an influence or type Now I'm pretty clueless on social but I'm of the mindset that like for tweeting or whatever. I tried to have at least nine things that I share. That have no relevance to me to the one thing that I do for sure. Is it a similar type thing with the influencers where it's like. Don't just you know. Product product product product product product every single email. But really. They're building a fantasy to see or or whatever they're trying to do in that a product may fit in their slide. In from time to time I mean the thing you should do is aid. You don't want to promote something every single day but when you really should do is you should pick products that are going to resonate with your audience that you really using you enjoy. It's very easy to grab any product that's GONNA pay us. Look look at when I interview influencers. If they come in their big thing is just getting paid like it needs to the influencers should care about being a good fit because if you start pitching these your yoga instructor and you talk about the organic life and this being natural and then you go get a Boob job and you get your lips done and you're getting your hair colored and you're it's like wait a second. You're like supernatural last week and this week you're like you know Barbie cakes like I feel like we missed something here. You'RE GONNA lose your audience because of that right so so you really have to figure out. This is my audience and what products naturally fit into that. If I naturally wear Nike all the time then I should reach out to Nike and say. Hey listen and I've already been talking about you guys. My audience loves you guys. What are we figure out some kind of a deal? I knew it resonates well because out of these last twenty posts a lot. I've done about you guys in the last two years. This is the kind of engagement that we've got. Would you be willing to work something out. Were we work some kind of a monthly dealer. You guys send me free shoes or we want to do a big campaign let me know actually a a perfect analogy to it is I saw that you completed the shamrock marathon. which was my first? Marathon was really in twenty twenty thirteen being awesome. And if let's say you're a runner on instagram so easy in my mind to say okay. Well I've got a Garmin this week. Well you know what I want to run with the garment and now stride has come out with something called power for running. Okay well. I'm experimenting experimenting with this now because this working naturally into my workout they may pay me to pitch it or something like that but it is completely legitimate to what I'm doing in the audience. It's and maybe for my long run. I prefer a CONVERSA- by Sake because it's got a little more cushion on it but if I'm doing a five K.. I run with lakes a new balance minimalist very thin shoe and that's faster. This is what people this is what I work on at. Ucla this is this is curriculum. I put together as hey at the end of the day. You if I'm an influenced got X.. Amount of followers and I've got some engage. Whatever it is the problem is most most people wait for somebody to come to them right so let me wait for knock on my door so I'm really hoping that you know a-6 gets a hold of me? 'cause I've already been kind of talking about their stuff and really praying they find me news flash. They're probably not going to find you for the most part. I mean unless you re right unless they know what they're doing which a lot of the brands don't so what you need to do once again. Ucla what I teach. Here's personal branding. Unique intermediate together. You need to explain to them why they need to work with you. Because most brands don't know how to find the influencers don't don't know what to pay them and don't know what to do negotiations they don't media kit. Let's turn on that because we throw it out there. I looked at. Have you break for sure. So many kids can be exactly that so it's like hey either website. I get ten thousand people a month on my instagram. I have ten thousand followers. Engagement rate is four percent. I have five thousand people people on my email list. Whatever this is right or maybe it's a campaign you did like? Hey I did a campaign with XYZ shoe or with whatever it is this local Mexican can restaurant and what they did is they wouldn't pay for food and we did this little campaign we put it together and here goes a little bit of a case. Study of what we did right now. You do in in a case study with a Mexican food restaurant and Senate to Nike. Might not be there Mike. Okay that's awesome. When we WANNA come eat Mexican food will will come out and give you a free pair of shoes but up until tell them but once pitching other restaurants or pitching at restaurant apps or pitching anything like that you have that case? Study right you want. People want to know brands and agencies. WanNa know like have you been successful. And what is that so a media. Kit is no different than you go to facebook for. PPC for pay per click. And you go in and it's going to be three dollars a click this is this is the database we have and you okay and you pick that little thing and now you know what you're going after the same thing my website I say. Hey I have fifty thousand subscriber subscriber fifty thousand people come to my website a month eighty percent of its in the US It's Mo- mainly men mainly this and now you go to Nike and say this is the reason why we need to. You do a sponsored post to my website. It's because I have a fifty thousand and eighty percent of them are males. We're looking at forty thousand a month men and we'll see very high engagement for Mayo base things for these articles that I've written. These are my two biggest ones. One of them was about how to run superfast as an old man and the other one like how to you know shoot it creating and grow to muscles overnight or whatever that is at ties into this premise of like okay that makes sense and why we should work together. You know it's that old school of influencer. It's a marketing of the models. And all this that people look at it and now that's Kinda it's gimmicky because it was but it also worked right it's evolved in what it is today where influencer circuiting really can be anybody. Anybody can be an influence. I had a guy. This is a funny story so I was a keynote speaker at the first ever influence or marketing conference in Mexico City there was a guy that came on stage. They came onstage. All he does is pink stuff and what I mean by that. Like the color pink. He came out and a pink suit. He's got a pink Cadillac lack. I mean it was like Super Pink like like I think even had pink cup though. I mean that's yeah pep dismal Houston pepple business. He's done rosie wine when he's done. Well I mean th anything pink so then they would go to them in and they would go well all these people love pink and so they and some of it was a little gimmicky. Because it's like pepple Biz. Modern learn. How much pep Dole's sold? Except they could also talk about this guy and this guy would put these campaigns zone so literally he did campaign or did his influence or thing was about the color pink. There's another lady I know that Her name is Sarah Sweetheart. She we're not gonNA last names on sweetheart dubbed your sweetheart earnings really Sarah but hurting rosie the seasons if you look at Her on instagram her things. That Rosie wine then you'd think. Oh that's really niche down. There's how many different providers of rose wine so she gets invited to events she gets invited to this and everybody that now most people follower about rosie wine so she's a heavily heavily engaged audience when it comes to wine so if she tries a line and says this is is phenomenal. Here I am hanging out with verts demeanor at their annual concert. Show thing that they do. And she's as keynote speaker they're going to get eyeballs and they're going to potentially get sales from that so that's what you have to look at is. There is an influence for for literally. Everybody right when it comes to this now. I'm not saying if you're like selling real estate life you're selling insurance or something like I'm like hey go do influence or marketing. Because it's works because that's kind of a unsexy subject and it's a little more difficult saying it's impossible some of the you know the winds and the alcohol and the Yoga and the food and the you know the actually What was it? I don't know if you've ever heard of Christopher lockhead He's he's He's a category crater three times. Silicon Valley CMO one of my good friends is a real estate agent. I I am apparently disguise the top in the entire country and his whole thing that he started out with as he looked at the market around him and I guess he said Um What's the most important thing. Oh I closed deals so his whole theme was pack your bags you're moving. And he somehow role data in so I I'm just wondering if that means that. Yes even though they're difficult maybe there are ways to real estate agents can be sexy because it's like hey you you know kind of F- you pay me that kind of this kind of attitude like hey let me show you. I'm working with social. Media can be huge for them so they are influencers. I was saying I said Real Estate. Yeah but I meant like in like an insurance broker like somebody that sells like fidelity fidelity fidelity is one of them like one of them. Were like hey do you WanNa get insurance on your why God. This is super exciting. I can't wait to read through the four hundred pages of documentation to be able to get my wife covered right that I didn't realize they can be because it can you know it's like the glitz in the Glam it still runs fund still under the umbrella like lifestyle and hey making money because I just sold this house and eighty thousand dollars and jumping my Ferrari Harry and drink some champagne you know do some crazy stuff while I'm driving. So yeah I mean that's still fits into that realm of lifestyle of like you know. Keep it sexy it's using actuarial tables are maybe slightly more bland. You're going to bring that up. That is super hot. I mean that's like don't get your blood flow like that man. I'm Jay I look at one of those instagrams I was like. I gotta get off off this from. My wife comes in the room. That's that's bringing the fire right there now moving forward you have a new show show. I do podcast scary. How there you go Nina? RSS Feed and anyone can do it. Anybody Geez is just give them when we just don't want to deal with it actually. That's one of those. You know the whole thing where you take the same statement. It's either good news or bad news since the same sentence. Yeah Oh yeah yeah. The good news is that anybody he can start a podcast and the bad news is anybody has started. It's like watching Fox and CNN. And it's like the same story but you're like this is two very different views but it's the same statement event but anyways who now one thing I noticed someone asks this is your show is named Shane. Barker's marketing mad and Christopher just for Lockheed I just brought up earlier his show was Christopher lockhead follow your different anyhow house Lockheed on marketing now as a marketer marketer. I'm curious this deliberate. Move that you're putting your name and then the name of the podcast there versus. Why isn't it just marketing madness with the author being shamed Barker I so there is so? That's that's actually a phenomenal question. I ll did put my name in their branding so I did want people to know that it is my podcast castes. So it's not you know marketing man by Shane. Burke Shane Burke's marketing madness. PODCAST in the way we did do that for branding purposes and we also put my big face with my big go red beard on there for marketing purposes as well and we've gotten some good and the reason why so I'll tell you it's a funny story so originally was Gonna be called content that converts because I wanted wanted to talk about whether it be videos or sales or whatever anything that you develop online whether it be pictures or video and how you convert that into sales. The only problem was as I really want to stop myself from like interviewing maybe influencers or entrepreneurs or celebrities and it the way that it changed was I had a girl on Julia Eliya McCoy from xpress writers. And so we were. I had these questions and you know some of the questions and we're kind of talking kind of tell me you know. Thanks for having on podcast for asking some questions that I'm asking where she grew up in some stuff like that and she kind of looks at me and she goes what I know why you're asking me these questions and and I haven't told a lot of people I don't know how you know about it. But she goes yes I I was in a cult for for for nineteen years I said I'm sorry coming in. And she says while I was in a cult that was in a cult for nineteen eighteen years. And she's I'm judging from your questions like that's why you're asking my upbringing. Which one by the way that it's gone? Now I guess they got their defunct or something called the crypts. That ring a bell the crypts rips. No I'm not sure I. I had a cult expert on the show. Russ sue you or cult expert marketing and Colt and leaving her out there on the continuum January and they really there's so much Clo- Cross each other at so many times No in so I was like no I didn't like I literally didn't know. Oh that you're in a cult because I'm writing a book about. I thought maybe somebody had told you and I was like no. I was just asking about your upbringing. You and I was like valid questions so at that point I was like screw content. Let's talk about your cold. I WanNa Kinda like dig deep and then I started thinking. Okay here I am doing this podcast. And then I'm GonNa have some guys in black van pull up and it'd be super number like. Hey okay. Sorry about what I said and I was just kidding. I like cold are awesome just not joined too many this month and if I can pass maybe I'll do it next month or something. But she was like seriously recently so the long story short. She was doing get a freelancer. She was doing freelance work English writer in the US. She was also saying to be a nurse she she had a client her and her client was on skype call and he says hey. Listen like you're kind of a weird deal. She started talking about her upbringing. Things she was going on and then her friend the nursing academy whatever ever said. Hey I think you're in a weird situation like they won't let you do this and you can't do this and you can't wear this and then win-drought person. I think you might be Colt. Well this guy said the same thing and she goes why I really don't know but maybe started kind of like that moment. Long story short two weeks later. She's like Hey I'm gonNA leave the guy that was on the skype calls a you can stay at my house. I'm like I wasn't super creepy. Like you can leave the call to go with the guy that you met from. You know whatever fifty towns down and say it in place super-safe her and her sister literal and leave go and stay with him and guess what happened. Well she's trainable tractable but they're married. Oh Wow and left field. I literally am hearing this story. And I'm like con to the convert's guide. What a sucky May? There's no way we can call so that. Was that point that I'm like it's going to be called Chambers Marketing Madness podcast because I I don't know what's going to be said I mean it's Kinda like yours. I love the premise of like it's like man. We don't really know what's going to happen right like it's just I mean we can make the right or left turn go straight or go backwards or hang up. We don't know oh right but it's so now. My podcast is marketing based but you just never know like we. You know whatever it is. I mean we talked to us and we talked today with a you know Marcus Sheridan anyways he was about anyways talking about the transmission of life and this and the other had nothing to do with marketing for the most part so you never know. Cool the lock heads of very similar in that manner to okay now. I WanNa harp on that though Shane Barker. So you're do you recommend nefer everybody doing a podcast because what about their name isn't no. Maybe they're not a kid speaker. Yeah which Eric Lease unstructured or is it just unstructured. Sure Yeah No I. I wouldn't recommend that for everybody in wants to this because sound terrible. I'm not saying that to toot my own horn but I had. I have a good foundation that took me a longtime to build right. So it's not like I was like a overnight lists everybody you know you because of teaching Ucla. Because of I write for one hundred and twenty west side to this point. I've gotten some good status from that. And so that has made it to the point where I feel like I can put my name if I was just trying to podcast and it was brand new to it. It's a little bit of a different deal And then again but I don't know how many people really looking up. Shane Berkers podcasts. At this point right and maybe they will over time. Maybe they won't but for me. I felt like foundationally it was. It was right for me to put my name in there if I was brand new and just getting into marketing. Unless you're making huge waves I it's I I highly recommend it like I said if you got to build more that foundation I write for some websites. Write a book. Do some do some stuff. That's foundation on that. It gets you to a point now you can put your name in front of all podcast. God I sound like a like a not really also does it help because as an example lipson which is the largest podcast Casaus in existence. If you look up their show called the feed. You can't find it in apple podcasts. You have to literally look up Lipson to find the show now. Guess what is one of the most popular words in podcasting directory. A Oh marketing marketing. So I'm wondering if if you had been. Let's say marketing madness. If maybe you would have been buried and then and you'd come up with reefer madness and other things because they downplay certain words like podcast. Anything starts with PODCAST is pretty. He must just run out. Because there's too many podcasts in the search so they being shamed barker you're very distinct and there's not a lot of shame Barker's out there no thank God my told my wife if one time job and so I think I'm going to kill myself. She please don't do that for the love of God. Do not go yourself. That's not I already dealing with one. She could anyways. It's shut up to my wife for dealing with me but I think there is so there is some value that you're talking about in regards to search ability and I don't think I think ninety nine percent of the people may start a podcast. Don't think about that right of like. Hey like what makes it unique right. How are you GONNA be? I've seen them. The blessing for me is I have a phenomenal marketing team. So what I mean by that is if I had to go do it myself and try to get reviews and do all that kind of stuff. I by the team. That does that for me so I have a little bit. I mean I'm lucky minute long time to build it but it's so that I'm people are doing that so I can get number one number two number twelve whatever it is on marketing and I've got some good traction in the last month. Hopefully more is going to happen. But it's not the person starts a podcast like it's not just starting a podcast. There's a million so you know there's a million other things that go into it like it's like it's like the the shaft that's like I'm going to open a restaurant and they've never ran a restaurant. It's like okay. You're making phenomenal food. But you know there's like a thousand other things you need to do like I just WanNa make food right. And that's why most restaurants fail because it's just like you realize that there's a lot I mean my podcast is this is is funny or maybe it's kind of sad at the same time but you guys were the judge. I did my first interview for my podcast. I think it was either August October. And we launched in July. That's how long it took. I mean it was it wasn't you know I had other projects and stuff so it was busy with stuff but it really took a long time because there was a lot of moving pieces basis to it. It's not it's easier because of softwares and you know this and you can look into get great Mike and do. This wasn't a cost thing. It was more of a just wanting to execute correctly putting the podcast out. So that's just took a Lotta time. Now it's like I said going well and got an awesome guests. And you know things are GonNa get and I get a chat with people's right enjoyed doing which is calling you manage to get into new and noteworthy which I'll be curious if that actually Translates the downloads or not. There's a lot of controversy on the the actual value of new and noteworthy. Yeah I think is extremely valuable if your show is a show that people are looking for when they say new noteworthy because put right on the front of their face or has some sort of just crazy name or something like a box of oddities comes to mind which I just think. It's one of the coolest names I've ever seen had good cover art and I think a lot of people just looking to see what that is. Yeah I mean that's marketing right. It's because nobody knows your uh-huh I mean it's not picking up a bottle of wine off the label like people. Don't do that but everybody does it. Of course you're GONNA look at politics and look at that and go that Shane Guy looks interesting or marketing management. I mean that's something we wanted. CONTO converts is madness music. What do you mean madness like? Why don't you like Yeah you kind of lied for me. I would like madness cold. What do you do in that podcast? Gazza I WANNA know right for me. Content that converts is Okay we're GONNA talk some some specialists today around talk about how they make money. It's ain't now K.. Like that's just I I didn't like the angle as much as I when I originally thought about it. I want people to listen to it and go. Wow that was entertaining her. Yeah I got some good stuff out of it or we talk about marketing. But that guy's crazy like there's some weird stuff or cool Steph or whatever that is I don't know you just gotTa figure out your angle. I look like if you just produce good content and people will come and eventually hopefully like you. Maybe at the same time. You have a team with. I've I mean I'm lucky but I mean it's not going to twist it. I am not I worked my eighteen twenty hours a day for a long time and so now I've got a phenomenal obese back in the day when it was lucky. I'm not dead. Yeah I was absolutely golic like over the top which which I'm perfectly fine with uh-huh so I'm guessing then. Do you have a pretty serves guide you and okay that's a crappy way to interview. You need to drop this. And somebody'll edit it out and say okay. He's a machine. Let's take that problem. No work it out. I do admit I do have a producer. But they don't they haven't come back to me and said hey you sound like garbage not yet. But I don't know if it's because they're not listening well enough or what but I. I think that I conduct pretty good interviews but the crazy part about this is stupid to say on a podcast August. I don't listen. I haven't historically listened to tons of podcast slick mu putting a podcast together. You would think I would always tell. Clients Listen Go do some research and look into into this and see if you're getting into I just wanted to podcast to talk to people so it wasn't necessarily be famous or try to let me doing it for a month and a half or like you know it's only been live live from up and a half so I just enjoy talking to people and I enjoy having good conversation. I enjoy meeting people so that was really the premise for me. Will it bring business. Maybe also also from speaking engagements like you don't know if she's funny or like he looks a little funny. He's got a really wet red beard and he's got like little hair that's kind of receding hairline all the fun stuff. You're like we'll maybe his wisdom because it looks old but you don't know if I'm fine if I'm not going to be fun and it's like not listened to the podcast and go you know what that he would be fun for a little keynote. I think he would be funded. You know invite right out to Turkey for a fifteen minute keynote speech because he would have some fun with it or no we need somebody a little more conservative so they can go to my podcast and go He's probably not the guy because you you know because he has a red beard or something like that. Okay well as an expert marketer. You've managed to put the show at really high numbers very very early. I mean I can look up the charter. Muncie that you're definitely at least tracking in the I tunes charts very well. What do you recommend to the soul? PODCAST you're the one who is the producer editor social media every single part of that. I'm GonNa pray for uh-huh this this is what I would do. I would look at things things. I'm assuming that you're talking about a podcast or that's like like broke fresh out of college and it was like or just has a day job. This is a side thing. It's easy to just hire a team. No it's not so what I would do. Is I would go the way that I found found my producer is I actually went on Lincoln and Norman Remember. I have an international team right so I went on to other countries I went through the Philippines and India and I looked down there and found out who's put in podcast producer plus Philippines plus Lincoln and I would go through there. I'm hoping that somebody doesn't find my producer because I pushes them. Just the whole world knows my secrets. Now it's okay. I'm going to save and then I would go and take a look at them and I would look at their past experience and how long they been known podcasting how long have been and producing it. Any shows and I would send them a message on. Lincoln's Inn Ham. Look at starting a podcast. This is what it's going to be called. This is what I'm looking at doing. This is what I've done in my past. Do you think you'd be a good fit and and I would interview them right because the thing. Is that what you know. It's not going to cost you a thousand dollars an episode or whatever five hundred dollars I know somebody would pay five hundred bucks an episode to do an episode like I. I didn't pay that so I was like. Why can find somebody and then listen to the stuff that they've produced and have them tell you? What ideas do you think I should do with the podcast? Why worked with this market and we did this? We did some video steph and did this okay what would that cost me on a cost. You one hundred fifty bucks for all of that. Okay sounds great now. We have that out there. And then I would have somebody on the other side and say you know who's who's good at producing or Distribution of content and so now we have a podcast marketer. Hey John Your podcast market. Great what would you recommend if I had a podcast talked about this this in this well I have a team of three people what we can do for. You know two hundred dollars a month. I could market over five hundred dollars a month. I can work all of your podcasts. Because it comes out once a month and we would market working on this and we can generate this kind of traffic. And that's what we've seen in the past like this is the thing you and I talked about eighteen and twenty hour days. You can kill yourself trying to do everything you can i. I was almost really successful at it. What would you need to do? Is You need to look at your ten things for podcasting that you do and you look at the eighth things that you hate doing. You don't want to do and you can pay somebody to do because I can't pay somebody to interview right last time I checked can't pay somebody to be a keynote speaker for me not yet not until we get that whole cloning thing done but up until that point. There's certain things that I have to do. I shouldn't you know if I WANNA come up my own distribution plan. This is a beautiful thing. There's this Google the Internet. It's like super epic. You guys should look get up where you can go in and people right about these are the fifteen ways promote my podcast literally. There's probably ten posts on that easily. You go and look at it. Goes Awesome websites. You can go find somebody. That's just good at data mining and putting stuff together you can say here goes the description here goes the title here goes the file here. Goes everything I'M GONNA send it over to. You'RE GONNA put it up there another team's going to promote it or whatever that is but if you pick people that probably have experienced in that podcasting industry right or whatever that is put a little bit of a team together put say my budget is a hundred bucks a show or whatever it. Is You divvy out some money kind of see if you can get some traction from it and then you just start building because you have to figure. What is your goal for doing the podcast? Right if it's to generate money and you want to generate sponsors in your podcast in the first two months. Don't do podcasts thank you I just don't do it. Just don't because you're not gonNa if you have to figure out what your goals are head just want to get my message out. Enjoy doing podcasts. Awesome do it. Please do it if you're seen in Hammond a try to get you know I'm GonNa try to Amazon to sponsor my podcast in the next three months or I want to become rich. Don't do it terrible. Don't that's not welcome. Don't do that because you're going to be only disappointed it. You figure what your goals are if you're if you want to say hey. I want to get a sponsor in one year and I wanted to pay two hundred dollars a month. That's feasible. Oh I think I think you could do that but you have to have obtainable goals nothing crazy like you wanna do big things and I heard that this one guy gets this year but they've been doing it for years like pick somebody on Youtube. That's making a million dollars a month. But that's probably not going to be you. Write that to honest back. No back to my analogy is. I'm kind of treating the podcast like a restaurant. I read somewhere. It takes an average a two years for restaurants breaking even. Yeah that's the thing if you're not eighty percent of restaurants close that's true stat so if you are a restaurant and you're breaking even life is good but you know I mean and this podcast is the same thing it takes a while to build your audience and traction guests and you learn a lot lot through that whole process and then you get the other side of it you know when it comes to naming it and the SEO. The Aso with you know when all this kind of crazy stuff that you can do to it. You Know I. It's it's it's one of those things as long as you have realistic expectations. That's like my thing with my clients. I send him questions about influence. American example what do you want to do with your influence from Oregon. Well my budget's ten grand and I'd like to sell a million dollars in products. Well that's awesome because I think everybody wants to do that. My friend of course that was the numbers like so you have to be realistic. Enlisted what is your goal for doing the podcast and it sounds like your goals are realistic. Somebody else's might not be so you know it's what happens. Is People get sold on whatever it is in life on the big shiny thing right like I get it that you wanna make a million dollars a month in that might be your life for you but you have to realize what these people have done to to be able to get to that spot right. It's not wasn't easy. They're working a lot hours or doing whatever they're doing. So it's just you just have to figure out what what is it GonNa take to get their great. Why don't you start making a thousand dollars a month and then five thousand and ten and then twenty and you figure out if you still want to go after the million? But it's it's going to take work. Everybody always wants to do the three second avenue. The seven Second AB seven second APPs not GonNa work either. Just try trust me. I've tried I drink beer and then I do go down. I do SIP. Another beard. Never never works. Plus you're gonNA suck for awhile. That's you know. That's the only guarantees. That's so funny actually at UCLA. When I the one of the first things I show my students as I say let me? She gives my first blog post and I go. I haven't even taken off my site and they go and look at it like Oh my God. That's terrible. That's the other words that I won't it using the PODCAST. But they'd like it's absolute garbage and I said exactly but you know the difference between me and you is. I started right. Nothing students but but it's true right. Sure your first this podcast. I'm shirt sucked. I didn't having listened. I guess like eight months. I'm sure somebody's and listen to eventually are GonNa go people like that guy but it is what everything everything we all start somewhere and you will suck. That is the only thing I promise you. But you know what's going to if you don't start you're never gonNA get anywhere like you won't because you'll we'll give it an opportunity so you have to suck like the first person to their youtube video. That's making a million dollars a month. Guess what their first video sucked sucked absolutely sucked but they started. That's that's the difference. We all knew you weren't born in your dad. Says you know what Eric you're GonNa be a podcast or my friend and I'm GonNa Your Dad's GonNa show you how to be a podcast or and I'm going to train you for about fifteen eighteen years in the new it when you're sixteen you're going to be a kick ass podcast because daddy loves. You said nobody that doesn't happen. Nobody's trimming podcasting wasn't even around then so It my point being is it. You just have to start. You gotta get start putting some content out there and do what you need to do. Well you know what. That's a perfect message to wrap up on. Just Start and working. Where can people find you so they can start looking up your material? You can find me on the worldwide web. WWW DOT SHANE BARKER DOT com. That's S. H. A. N. E. B. A. R. K. E. R. DOT COM. And then you can also actually gonNA give you my personal email That I'm I'm not GonNa lie to you guys. It is actually run by my assistant assistant because I get too many emails. But it's because I do podcast and I give you my email shut up to and by the way for taking care of my e mails. Shane S. H. A. N. E. AT SHANE SHANE BARKER DOT com. You can reach out to me about. Seo Influence or marketing podcasts. Whatever you need you have a cute cat picture like whatever you guys? Whatever makes you guys happy all respond or respond within twenty four hours guaranteed fantastic? Hey thank you so much for coming up appreciate it. Thanks for listening. And if you like what you heard please consider subscribing for free and I mean in for free it is always free. There's no billing anything else you can subscribe in your player of choice which is probably right in your hands or you can good unstructured unstructured pod dot com and there are plenty of links there. Thank you so much and in the spirit of sharing. Here's a couple more shows. You may want checkout tossing Franklin the host of it's no secret with Dr T.. which is a small business and marketing podcast each week or interview business? Ladies who openly share the secrets to the mass of success it's nicer with dougherty will educate entertain and inspire inspire. You check it out. You'll find it where ever you listen to podcasts. Or you can get him a website. Toss Him Franklin Dot Com. I did not grow up with very much money. Money say energy really scares me yet about sixty granted. Money isn't the answer. Somebody should just give me a lot of money. My dream was to be the WB wrestler but you realize that your dreams change over the years as a tool. It's a key to the gate and at the other side of the gate is the things you really want to do with your life. It's the things that a matter most to you. It's pursuing lose values bad may ultimately happy. Listen to inspired money at inspired. Money Dot F._M..