276. James Burrows
Hi I'm Nick Nick Turner and we are the House of get rich nick but this podcast we are out there in the world trying every get rich quick scheme to tell you guys which which ones actually work and which ones are worth attack like donating plasma online poker task grab it writing books. We're walking dogs on rover. We're hijacking a a truck going southbound in Tijuana. No one's going anywhere until we get what we want. Get Rich. Nick is out now listening stitcher apple podcasts or wherever you get your your podcast. This is Gilbert Godfrey. You WanNA personal lights video from me. A personal life shout <music> out. Who would you know just anything like High Birthday Happy Anniversary Greg Jauregui. Hey you never wanna talk to you again. GO DO CAMEO DOT COM Slash Gilbert Godfrey. I know so a lot of you would like to Slides Gilbert Godfrey cameo dot com for a personalized video breeding. I'm Jackie the joke man marling. I've had the exquisite pleasure of once again being on Gilbert Godfrey. It's amazing colossal podcasts with the Wonderful Gilbert Godfrey and the equally amazing Frank Senta Padre <music>. Hi This is Gilbert Godfrey Niches this Gilbert Godfrey Damazin colossal podcast. I'm here with my co hosts Frank Santo Padre and our engineer Frankford Orosa. Oh south our guest. This week is a producer occasional actor and one of the most prolific accomplished ended Meyer directors in the history of popular entertainment. He's directed thousands of hours of primetime television on landmark in March shows such as double Mary Tyler Moore show dubbed Bob Newhart show taxi frazier friends friends the Big Bang theory will and grace and of course I show he owed so co created shears ears are usually known as stopped pilot whisper he's old so directed the pilot for hate series he's like two and a half men caroline in the city Dharma and Greg Dear John Veronica's it's a closet Mike and Molly and two broke girls along the way he's one eight Primetime Emmys five five directors guild awards and received life achieve been donner's from both DGA and the television critics association and in Two Thousand Sixteen he was honored with the prime time NBC NBC special entitled. Must See TV on Old Star tribute to James Boroughs. It was in a long and very successful career. He's worked with and directed everyone from John cleves leads to betty white from Tony Randall to Sydney folic and Elton John. Do Andy Coffman while he's he's also worked with many of our previous podcast guests including Roseanne Dr Keg and has no ball volcano Jalan. Damn Andrea Martin Michael mckeon Steven Weber Cave in La vie a Ken Bovine Ken love and Joe Pantoliano. Please welcome to the PODCAST and industry industry giant living legend and a man who somehow managed to direct over for one thousand episodes of television without ever working with me. The Gentleman James Borrows bullet dodged. Yes absolutely it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you James. Does this count as working with Gillard I think we can. I think we could chalk that up. No Ella tell him to change his shirt. They'll never happened. They give tell James the direction that David Steinberg gave you on mad. What about you. You'll get a kick out of that. Oh yes I want to say something in runoff and David Steinberg said I'm could did you run a little faster and I and I said I yeah. I guess I could run fan and he goes no no. I don't need you to run faster. Maybe a little more gracefully and I said gracefully and he goes no choppy. Let's <hes> chef and then finally threw his hands in the air and he said can you run delays <unk>. Jewish uh-huh so obviously you had to run right to left as quick see what you missed out on James. We were talking. Go ahead go yeah now. We were just <hes> we were. GonNa Save Franken. I were saying maybe we'll start off with you telling our audience what what your father who your father was and what he accomplished <hes> my father was a gentleman named. Abe Burrows who was a radio writer in <hes> California in the late thirties and forties and then <hes> he was asked to write the book for guys and dolls <hes> in one thousand nine hundred fifty at by a man he worked with named Ernie Ernie Martin who was a radio producer back in L. A. and my dad came and rewrote the book two guys and dolls and so he stayed on Broadway good way and he became a Broadway director and playwright writing other than guys and dolls <hes> Cancan how to succeed in business. Is this without really trying everything forty carats <hes> <hes> happy hunting <hes> cactus flower our <hes> so he was he became a legend on Broadway very much so we got a kick out of the fact Gilbert was saying you know because we were watching interviews with you and you you you were just a kid watching his dad work yeah if it was lost on you as a kid and certainly the glamour of the people you were meeting. Yeah I had <hes> <hes> I had no idea I was just I was occasionally trundled off to rehearsals and <hes> would go to some of my dad's parties and sit around with <hes> <hes> people who I had no idea what they were who they were like <hes> literally said next dinner at dinner with John. Steinbeck is that <hes> with Truman Capote with Common Green Kaufman George Calvin Dad's first director yeah and <hes> so I you know I that grew up in in that in that aura and <hes> didn't quite register with me who all these people are until I got a lot older and so thank meeting. These people just meeting a bunch of boring gold people to you as a kid and going to work was like if you father worked written grocery store yeah yeah. I always describe you know what I did with. My father was a tailor and he taught me how to make a suit when I didn't don't even know I was learning how to make us. I love <hes>. No I know the the good thing about these people were they were funny. My Dad's you now now. You Know My dad's friends were mainly funny. Even even Steinbeck was funny and <hes> so they they didn't spurn earn me as a young child a you know they talked to me and we're very gracious and <hes> so <hes> I you know I grew up around the intelligentsia of New New York among those people. That didn't really mean anything to you. As a kid I understand were Danny Kaye and Groucho. Yeah I <hes> my dad was close friends especially especially close with Sylvia Sylvia fine and his wife and <hes> I did meet Groucho with my dad. It was <hes> I was old enough to know who he was and <hes> he <hes> he he made he made me laugh. Yeah that <hes> I remember I met him at <hes> at Chasen's which was a famous restaurant in in L. A. Before it was became Bristol farms and <hes> I met a dinner with my dad there and we were walking out in there was Groucho so so we sat down a Groucho table and you know he you know he talked to me as Groucho but I'll never forget <hes> <hes> <hes> <hes> Adolf Zucker who was then who was retired as president of paramount pictures was about ninety five years old and he came he came Kinda shuffling through the restaurant and Groucho from the table said a Adolf Adolph Ostermann Yana Estimate Yana Anna waving his hand calling him over to table. which was you know it was just it was so mean? Oh me and but you know what could you do but laugh. Ghost Groucho was the he was he was really funny bizarre and you were. Gilbert and I got a kick out of the fact that as a kid you you showed up on this not only the Sam Levenson show. This is the only podcast by the way where you can guarantee the that. The two hosts will who Sam Levinson was but also on on Edward Murrow Edward R Murrow is person to person a clip. I saw tribute special yeah. I was <hes> <hes> I said my infamous line <hes> <hes> when Ed Edward R murrow asked me what a what do I want to do and I said I haven't made up my decision yet. which is as? I said I haven't decided yet but <hes> you know as a sixteen fifteen fourteen year old. I went to show that I it was totally illiterate now your your father was schooled in front of the House of un-american activities tippety be during the McCarthy scare. Yes yes because your mom was a good old left. You made you and your your sister. March the day parade yeah we we did March in New York City. You know back in the when my parents met they <hes> uh they you know they were liberals back. Then and liberals were communists back then that's just you know that's just what it was that it was <hes> what's another term and <hes> <hes> they you know how they they went to parties and stuff like that and <hes> my dad was called before before the House on American Activities Committee. Yes yeah it's it's fascinating too because <hes> and we've had you wind up working with blacklisted. Uh Uh actors you wound up working with Guilford Jack Gilford on taxi. I did yeah I did yeah did you did you discuss. Did you know that was you know <hes>. There were hard feelings. All around with gallows people I'll bet and it was not passed on to the kids and the kids didn't carry a grudge or anything like that my Jack Jack was very good friends with my mom and <hes> zero mastel was also good friends with my mom. I'm so you know they. They <hes> <hes> you know it was it was really it was really tough. Time and <hes> people were called in front of this committee for just living their lives and <hes> it was I would i. I can't imagine a position. My Dad was put them in that you. You've you said it when he was in in a in an impossible position because if he said too much or he said two little he could lose either way right right yeah and and it was the times that I mean can you really I mean there's people who are looked upon as the enemies but like they they were under pressure to everybody was under pressure. It was uh it was <hes> you know <hes> to use a modern term terme. It was a witch hunt sure and <hes> <hes> because you know you had one guy kind of who was the energy behind this whole movement and people were swept up and <hes> <hes>. It's not so simple not so dissimilar then what's going on now yeah. I we always said we had our win. Winkler here a couple of weeks ago and he made that picture guilty by suspicion he made a picture about the blacklist with Deniro and we were talking about how it could come again. You also work with Lee Grant who we had here how famously blacklisted you work with Lebron on fe yeah and she was as much of a victim as anybody big chunk kind of her career. I know you know a lot of people a lot of people went to Europe and wrote and wrote under pseudonyms and it was yes <hes>. I hope we never see that again. I hope not on a brighter note. We have to talk a little bit about something else that your dad did. which was the classic? Duffy's tavern right yeah yeah and I love these names. You can find these on Youtube James. You can find some of the old clips I found one with Burt Gordon. The Mad Russian Arthur treater and slacks slaps he maxie Rosenbloom great names from the past home my God what an iconic show yeah. I you know I was. I don't think I was trundled to that rehearsals because I may have not been born at that point but <hes> my dad was <hes> picture of me and my father and Ed Gardner Yup who was who played Archie Archie to manager and I think my Middle Name James Edward burroughs his after Ed. Oh I didn't know that that's and <hes> I believe it or not I have he had an apron. Ed Gardner had an apron that he wore even though the show was on radio he he had this apron and <hes> anybody on the show sign the Apron and <hes> so Ed's mother embroidered all the signatures signatures so it came up for auction about thirty years ago at Christie's or or Sotheby's and I bought it so I haven't hanging and the names on there there must be two hundred and fifty names on there of the people who guessed it on the show <hes> to to Lula Bank Milton burr everyone everyone it was it was this crap. Harry S Truman while Nelson Rockefeller was crazy. Yeah go ahead. Here's a simple and stupid the question how would you what what how would you watch the first sign that you're working with a bad ED director. Why don't they give away shines. I've never worked with a director yeah but if <hes> the first the first sign of a bad director is when an actor as a question that they say I don't know you can't you can't do that. You have to take a stance. You have to say if he asked a question to this funnier night. You say funny and if it's not funny you say I was wrong. Don't say yeah I don't know that's the worst thing you can do and don't <hes> having a you know you have to have an opinion and you have to be able to <hes> get what you want. I in <hes> in a way that's integral to yourself off Martin it. I'm not a strict direct. I'm not saying you have to be here and you have to be there and yeah well but you you have to do that and that's funny and that's the way the jokes going to work. I'm one who takes all kinds of suggestions from everybody and I have certain ideas and I make sure my ideas seem like they come from the actors so that you can do this wonderful creative effort that I try how to do so bad. Directors are <hes> you know people who succumb to pressure and don't have their own opinion and and don't know what the particular piece or what the particular needs and you said in one interview that thank you tell your actors you tell your actors and writers you give them a suggestion and you say this may be great. This may be Shit I do. I say that I say before I do you know when I started out. I would do anything I I when I when I shot on television I would you know if a pilot was sent to me. I'd do it because I didn't have much choice but as I got once I did cheers years and I got <hes> <hes> settled full hanging balls. I I started to assert myself more and <hes> whenever I do do a pilot or work with new writers I <hes> I have. I you know they <hes>. I want to have a meeting with them where they think they're auditioning me but I know I'm additioning additioning now and <hes> I tell them what I think and the important thing I want from the rider is I want them to defend end immaterial not to be defensive about and then at the end of that meeting or if I do work on the show I will give them notes and I say fifty percent of what I say is great and fifty percent is shit and it's your job to figure out which is which do that because a lot comes into my head sure a lot of it's not right you know. I don't have real writers logic. I you know I'll sell sell a scene for for a good joke. I'll sell it down the river if I if I have a good joke that may not be integral to the emotion and the peace and it's wrong. It's the joke is wrong. It shouldn't be in there so I don't have riders logic but I do have a sense of what's funny how to make something funny and <hes> <hes> I you know I speak a lot. One of the things is your known for if I may if I may say correct me if I'm wrong is is is coming up with physical business. That make makes the scene funnier because you I've heard you say you're you're. You don't think like a writer. You don't have a writer's approach but you you you you also say you absorb so much by watching your father all over the years and you absorb dwarf so much working in Summer Stock Working Theater Yeah I signed that example of <hes> of the the Mary Tyler Moore episode where with Lou and Rhoda we wound up putting them on the trunk. Yeah yeah I I again. <hes> you know. I just have that gift. You know I call it a gift. <hes> my dad used to say you can't learn funny which is true. You have to be born that way and you know I I. Luckily got that gene. So I kind of know what's funny. In my first episode. I have directed. It was <hes> a Mary. Tyler Moore was brought out to do one show and and I got Mary Tyler Moore and <hes> the reading around the table. When we read the script the first time it was like <hes> D plus and I said I remember saying to grant tinker who brought me out I said in a sea of Danish I get a Bagel and <hes> so I went down on stage and I started to rehearse and I just throw anything in I could I invoke Shakespeare vote checkoff in the last scene between Louis and Mary <hes> where they're sitting out of trunk there you know to me. It was like <hes> <hes> I. I think it was like I said we're like three sisters. Where are you know they're thinking about going to Moscow. They have to move apart and and stuff like that so I I remember doing everything possible to add stuff to show and <hes> <hes> I was lucky enough to to be able to impress people especially Mary. WHO's running the company so sure you're my career took off after that and now I have to ask you another question similar to the last how do you what are the signs of bad writing well in a comedy. It's not funny <hes> and <hes> it's just to me it. <hes> you know when I when I read something it's not the idea. It's the execution of the idea. <hes> cheers is showing bar. <hes> there have been a lot of shows set in bars <hes> Duffy's tavern yeah we were a couple. A couple of people sued US couple. People sued us when when cheers came out we stole it and we would always say get in line behind my dad. Wow Oh wow yeah and we we never had a problem after that but you know bad writing is people don't sound unlike they're talking to one another or they're. They're they're not relating or or they're you know they they. It doesn't come from the inside side. It's all on the surface so <hes> you know it's just <hes> it's just something you have to feel. I can't yeah I can tell you what bad writing is and the biggest example of bad writing is the play. I wrote to get out of the L School of drama. I ha ha. That's funny that in a vault no one has the combination. No no what what to two other quick things. I Bet Your Dad before we move on James that won the touch me too. It'd be obvious you said I'm not a martinet but you said that you learned that much psychology that by the way your description of working with actors actors it's fascinating but you said one of the things that you got from your dad was was treating people with kindness yes more than picked up yeah. He was <hes> aw you know. When I was a young boy I didn't I didn't see it but then when I stage manage for him <hes> on a <music> <hes> first one was breakfast at Tiffany's and then on the road company of Cactus Lower and then on forty cards I could see how he worked with the actors and and my dad was a playwright and a director sure so he would rewrite a lot on his feet but he would always treat everybody with kindness he would. Did you know take all kinds of suggestions. He even took one from me that ended up in forty carats and <hes> he was he was he was not. You have to be over here. You have to be over here. It was like you know I learned that from him. You know <hes> walk in the door. That's what I say starting a scene. You start over here. You start over there and let's see what happens so <hes> you know that's it was all it was never now. Don't don't do it that way. It was never I never got angry. <hes> <hes>. I never <hes> said <hes>. There's only one way to do it and it's my way because actors if you if you catch the right actors <hes> you cast them because they're good and they're creative so they can only make the peace better and they can only make the peace better by having the freedom to experiment and we do that a lot. I thought it was interesting to in Gilbert appreciate ashamed this that that your your dad gave he mentored some some young people like Dick Morris like you're dead. Yeah you yeah you as well and Woody Allen Yeah well. He wrote that letter on behalf on on what he's behalf. Dan told me my dad told me that Woody Allen came to see him. In the the fifties I guess and what he's related by marriage to to wash. I'm not sure how but <hes> he came to see my dad and he had fifty jokes and before ory you know my dad read the jokes and immediately sent woody to Sid Caesar show and to <hes> comedy comedy of how I don't remember the name of Oak was a shallow shows show show show so he sent a sent him over to sit and I he said I said to my dad. Why did you do it and he said because there were fifty jokes I could never thought of wow so <hes> there was <hes> there was a connection connection there with woody and my dad and the last thing that you wanted to do was go into show that's fascinating as you said you wanted. No part of that I did I I went to I went to I went to music and art high school. Believe it or not I went to <hes>. It's now laguardia. It's combined with performing arts. When I was twelve years old I was in sixth grade and and <hes> <hes> people from the Metropolitan Opera Boys Metropol monop- Burke came around and they wanted to know who could sing my country Tis of the and I I could I sang it and I got into the Metropolitan Opera Boys Chorus and I was in it from when I was twelve till I was seventeen and we would go. Oh you know we would take the subway down. There would be in Janicki Alaba William or or Cavalleria Rusticana or Carmen was our big was our big opera we we had <hes> two big choruses and <hes> so when I was going to apply to college at a High School I sang for music and art and I got in on my voice which was horrible I was I was a boy soprano and <hes> a bad one but I got in so I got into music and art and <hes> then when I <hes> <hes> you you know I I I didn't I couldn't sing. I couldn't be in the entertainment world and then I went to Oberlin college which had a great theater department and I didn't want to do anything into theater. I felt you know that my dad was a legend. I DIDN'T WANNA go into that business in New York City. That was you know he was he was he was very very prominent. A giant and I didn't WanNa do any of that. I didn't think I had any any of the skill and then when I got out of the were calling people for the Vietnam War and I didn't want to be in that area either so I <hes> <hes>. I had no heel spurs so I couldn't <hes> I couldn't get out that touched yeah lovely and so I <hes> my dad's wants to go to graduate school so oh I got into the l school of drama and there I took a directing class with a man named Nikos Karabelas who was who ran williamstown and was a director on Broadway and I kind of Said Okay I see what directing is and maybe maybe I can do that so <hes> I <hes> I kind of gravitated to that but then when I got out it was just you know what do I do now now I I I I said well maybe I'll stage-manage so stage managers. The Guy who runs a show in the night and directly under studies so slowly through that process I got more and more into directing but initially I was a government major Oberlin and I wanted nothing to do with the theater and the rest is history tackling quick this a quick departure a little a little side <hes> aside nope but you work with two people that were interested in in <hes> in Your Road Company Days Don Knotts and Schaja any any quick memories of either of them. Yes I know we could do a seven hour. Show James Easily. Yes I know I ran a theatre in San Diego Goldie off Broadway theatre way off Broadway theatre and I was he a tick director and we would do star vehicles we did <hes> <hes> Mister Roberts with <hes> James Drury the Virginian James Goodbye Charlie with Joanne Worley and we did <hes> the junior wolfe with <hes> with Carl Betz in all the big television stars back and then yeah we did last year the Red Hot lovers don not and it was a big hit so <hes> so we brought it up to the Huntington Hartford which is a theater we're here in. La and it ran for three or four weeks so I got to know Don KNAPP way and he was he was a wonderful man and and so that's that literally only time I work with Don and then Josh Ya forty carats right yeah. She is you know got a lover. She's passed away but she was somewhat instrumental in my career she <hes> when I was stage imagine forty carats she came in to replace June allyson who replaced Julie Harris so with their stars who gets replaced I would I would do their blocking for them so they would know and then my dad would come in and do one final rehearsal and <hes> get it into shape and everything like that so <hes> I would to Soja became very fond of me. I would you know I could tell color to do things and <hes> I would not get a fight or anything like that. She really liked me so I I would direct when she would do forty character territory she did spirit around the country they would hire me because I could wrangle her and <hes> <hes> so we went to oh they hired to do forty carats in San Diego and I agreed to do it and then she bowed out and we did headed anyway with Marjorie Lord which is how I got the job as artistic director in San Diego which is how which gave me some credentials Daniels that Mary Tyler Moore was impressed with so <hes> so everything leads to something else. Yes yeah yeah so josh you know Josh I believe it or not what I was running theater in San Diego. I would come up and I would <hes> do casting it l. a. and I would always stay Ajaj his house house and she would feed me it was it was wow it was a strange pug very strange relationship. I was you know I was. I don't know she she liked me and I liked her. I I got a kick out of her. She was very sweet and very funny <music>. We were turn to Gilbert Godfrey Amazing Colossal podcast right at the that's what you say you found one hundred dollars on the street. Would you pick it up or would you keep walking up. Coast should take the money. So why do you keep picking winners and not betting on them. That's why you should check out my bookie eight fast easy and pay when you win because where you're betting as gust to your are betting on the smart thing. GonNa bit cleats Football Season Bank with my bookie d when you know you could bet on Games after kate called a by sank and it looks like your bed is GonNa lose. You can always just take the other side your back kind of person that lights the bed a little and win a lot. Try a far lake a your big. Come true you'll note apply your wings and no matter a how bad the. NFL season is based time out the year join now and my bookie will double your first step. Is You spray Gome Gilbert to activate the offer. That's Promo won't go Gilbert my bookie dot A. G. You play you win. You gang pay on the next Google on Franks colossal observations. They used to have IRV eight villages on all those shows sing short mostly Mike Douglas Serb people and have to fight I use. Oh yes you used the sign off on the Ron Friedman. The last episode might be the same album some sort of charity but does she sounds he sounds a little bit like Earth a kid. I have the wrong way. Cat loonies get your bed. The man Very Shakti get doing Boehner. I can see I can. Let's see what the little out of my head now really disturbing it can possess Zest Gilbert and frank's amazing using colossal obsessions every Thursday only on stitcher premium. Uh Okay Bill Burr podcast I again prime. Minister tests make you okay now. This question may go absolutely nowhere but I'm hoping true. Why should it be any different than your other this one. Someone told me that the two old guys that sat at the bar soldier that Yeah Rosen that one hour rosen used to be a stuntman for the three stooges juice <hes> I think that is true al how was his <hes> title is the man who said Sinatra Rice Ace because I think the first time we ever spoke it was an atra. He said it about four times in his show and we started Arta. We started to use AL allot. He had a couple of short lines but he had been in business. He probably was I don't. I don't recollect that but he was an old time. Hollywood guy and he's in the Stratton story that I looked up the the Jimmy Stewart Movie The Baseball Movie Juno that movie the Martian in the movie yeah yeah he's he had some credits in the in the forties and fifties he was a sweetheart. He <hes> you know he he had. We used them occasionally on cheers. He <hes> <hes> but he was always really funny. Yeah Gino who's a friend of ours was an entertainment payment reporter out or Milwaukee New al.. Said please have asked James. About Al because James was very good to him. Oh yes we were but he he was good to who asked because he was really funny but I can't believe that I took connection to three from from cheers. Oh yeah that's that's a fun one. Did when you were working on forty carats it said the story I heard you were. You're on the road and you you went to a you went back to your room and you saw the Mary Tyler Moore. Show on my angling this story now knowledge true. We're not the forty carats on Broadway. I was doing forty carats in Wallingford Connecticut with Joan Fontaine. Okay wow and I went back to my. I went back to my room room <hes> on a Saturday turn on the TV. There was a Mary Tyler Moore Show and in my head I said wow. They're doing a half hour our week and I'm doing a two hour show a week. I think I can do it so that's what gave me the idea but to go back to how I know. Mary is <hes> the first show that I worked on Broadway was his show that my dad wrote called <hes> it was a musical of breakfast at tiffany's called Holly Go L. Lightly and <hes> it starred Richard Chamberlain Mary Tyler Moore Dr Kildare and Laurie Petrie and <hes> <hes>. I was in charge of Mary and Dick. I was a third assistant stage manager and they were the Hollywood people and and my job was to show them around the you know when they came off stage. Take them to their next mark and take them back to dress room. Get launch for them. I it's really there gopher so <hes> I you know we went out of town with the show and we were sold out because you had Laura Patrie Dr Kildare sure it was crazy and winning combination yeah and David Merrick was the producer who was great Broadway producer and and he was unhappy with the show and I I have to admit it was not my dad's greatest work so <hes> David replaced my dad and he replaced my dad with a man known for his musical comedy was Edward Albee so I said to my dad <hes> can I stay on and he said sure so I stayed eight on the show and you know my job expanded I would go down Edwards townhouse and get the rewrite because there were no fax machines back then on or anything like that and <hes> so <hes> Merrick decided to rather than go out of town again with the show to rehearse or to rehearse the reworked version of the show in New York and opened for previews so we opened for previews and it was the disaster the show was a disaster it was it was dark. There was some really good Bob Merrill songs but it was a dark show and poor. Mary every was in tears all the time well Mary. Tears and she would come off stage. She was crying and I would be the person who would meet her and I would take her to her next exposition and stuff like that are up to a room she would change and and it was just it was a horrible experience for everybody we closed after before performances and so we became very close because this was you know just just a disaster and we all in this lifeboat and yeah we shared the oars and so after the show was over <hes> grant flew in and indic- sat with grant Mary for a while at Sardis and <hes> so we became friends so that's my first introduction to Mary and so that's how she knew me. So there was some luck involved insurance that <hes> she went on to have this wonderful career and took me along with her but also a little chutzpah involved loved. I mean you were you were in a road company working with a road company. You send you saw are on television. You said I'm going to reach out I'm going to I think I can do this. I thought I could and <hes> I guess I was right or you could just talk a little bit about those those. Mta Glory Days James I I mean not only the Mary Tyler Moore show but you directed Phyllis. You directed road. We had Paul Sand in here. A couple of weeks ago we talking about friends and lovers. Tell Galliano's as dialogue coach he did not he did well yeah. I would go <hes> I watched I started by watching newhart show <hes> because because in particular thing that I do multi camera show in front of an audience I knew about all the staging of the actors and everything like that what I did know was about the cameras there's so I had to watch for about four five months to watch how the cameras work to get the shots and everything like that so after a while once I learned to cameras before I got my first shot. I I would <hes> I would go to pull Santa's house on the weekends and I would run line too nice. Man had a sweet honey. We love him. Yeah Dow Fun and the Tony Randall Show on m. t. m. show right right. <laughter> tarsus show that I loved that should have been a bigger hit. I Know Thomas J made me laugh. Oh my God well. The two of them were so aw so funny and so mean I mean you one of the hallmarks of those MPM days of those writers I mean Yeah Brooks and Burns and Dan End Stand Daniels and Ed Weinberger. We had on the podcast by the way how you did we had here. Yes all my God. I haven't seen added years. Oh he was funny as hell but I love those shows and you liked one in particular was that it was at an Mt. M. Show the ROB Reiner. Yes there was free country. Oh my God yes. We both like that one. Yeah tell us tell us about that. One <hes> <hes> that was I think six or seven episodes it was about Jews on the Lower East side <hes> and rob wrote it and <hes> was in it and it was you know everything was period about about it. It was set in the nineteen early nineteen hundreds and it was funny and Joey Joey Joey Pants Rini lipin yup up and judy con the up where the <hes> where were the two families that <hes> that we were in the show and I had a great a time on that show it's <hes> I was sad to see that it was it was canceled and an another show that you did that. I think I saw about two episodes. Maybe there were only two but I thought it was a funny show and it had one person who I'm sure you admire because she worked with him on now taxi and that was George shut her show. Yeah sure I well you know I was in awe of working with those two guys together. Yeah Bob Ninety heart and Judd Hirsch Yeah Bob Bob just when I was in college and <hes> Fifty Eight Fifty Nine my dad sent me the button down mind record and I could not keep the my classmates out of my room. Everybody wanted to hear that record record so I was. I was just I I love new harden and I got to work on his show and the Bob Newhart show and he just best nobody. Nobody doesn't like Bob does the he has it so distinctive and he's so funny and <hes> I had a good time on Georgia Leila. It didn't last that long but that's Jason Bateman was in yes smart show and tell us about Judd Hirsch shoe worked with a lot and we WANNA get shot here you should do you. WanNa talk to we will do it. He's <hes> <hes> you know judge playing Alex Rieger this this <hes> the only one who wanted to be a cabdriver everybody else had visions and dreams to be other places Alex Rieger. There was a cab driver that was his job he understood it and yet he had the soul of the wisest man in the world and would listen to all the insanity and because he would listen a lot like Ted Danson on cheers because that character listened and and acknowledged the other person the audience could embrace those people so the skill that judd has as a straight man is just I. It's just it's just it's it's wonderful and I you know I had a chance to work with them again. On superior doughnuts where again he played the rock of the show so and you know he's gloriously funny and can do any accent in the world and <hes> you know I've had I have had wonderful times. I told him straight men. Don't get enough credit. We've said that on this show many times new hearts another example of a viewpoint character. ESO WHO's a listener so that you you can accept the other crazy characters that are orbiting around right. He's the windows of the show yeah yeah and they don't get enough credit in fact when you watch the Mary Tyler Moore show she doesn't get enough credit for being the straight person more often than not in the center. I know you know it's those the ones who are the handsome or really good looking or girls who are really pretty who are centers. Don't get the acknowledgment they should you. I know that people think they're stars because they're good looking pretty but they're they're. They're wonderful comedians to there's no more greater example than <hes>. The six six hundred people on friends who for years everybody is thought to show was a success because they were. We're so good looking and it wasn't it was that they were all deft. COMEDIANS <hes> all the show was so well written so I mean and a lot of times you don't these these the the center of the show doesn't get the acknowledgments they should and and we've had at least two members of the Mary Tyler Moore Show we had we had asner we had McLeod and Weinberger Yeah Yeah tell us about Gavin Macleod and national to work with and Ted well I was that was my first job and I was scared shitless headless. Thank God J. Sandwich Yeah because of Jay who was my mentor. <hes> Jay was so sweet to me. It's so wonderful awful to me and so <hes> passionate about me and <hes> <hes> you know he <hes> he didn't bring me out. Mary brought me out <hes> and and Jay was so supportive you know I tell I'll I'll just tell a quick Jay Sandra story. I'm the first show I ever shot I <hes> I was shooting the show and I <hes> somebody made a mistake and I said okay. Let's back up to this line <hes> and I heard from the booth back it up to Ted's entrance and I looked up there and there was j. a and he knew we couldn't cut the show the show I wouldn't cut together with the with the mistake in less we went back to Ted's entrants mench so he was there for me and my first show which was so sweet and <hes> you know to this day I still I I love him and and you know credit him with being so instrumental in getting my butt off the ground and <hes> that's to be where where I am today it's nice and <hes> <hes> as far as Gavin and Ted and ed the the great thing about them is that they never really did much comedy before the Mary Tyler Moore show they I think Ted played played heavies on <hes> on <hes> <hes> the Eliot Ness show sure <hes> sure and <hes> ed was a heavy in movies and Gavin to same gangsters and on the touchable. That's a show right. That's right and so if you cast people on your shows who you've never seen funny eh what you do is it enhances the element of surprise because you don't expect them to be funny and they're funny money and you go. Oh my God this person funny. I never knew it and you enjoy them more. They were wonderful actors and they were all so funny. I mean we did it on cheers. We cast Nicole Asana play coach and Nikki had come off of the Mafia don and raging bull. That's right was yes in me I I. I didn't know it was the same Persia brilliant casting yeah remember him. It was so completely lied der believable and both parts which are polar opposites I now he was Nikki was unbelievable. I think it was a director. He was yeah he was. He directed a lot of our stuff <hes> but <hes> comes me when he came in to read. We all looked at one another said. Oh my God and those wonderful moments in the room and you can say Oh my God when somebody brings something you would never think to two apart and you go. Oh my God. This is great. We're all benefit from. It was so strange because coach he's Kinda. Slow witted good natured and then in these this means scumbag in raging bull. Yes yeah yeah so it's convincing prize because Nikki doesn't look funny and all of a sudden this stuff comes out of his mouth and his attitude and he could play that he played coach. It was unbelievable. It's fascinating fascinating these casting the casting choices casting these dramatic actors. I don't remember chlorides Lebron being in many comedies either I remember the twilight zone and dramatic yeah mostly dramatic work unless your show picture show yeah yeah yeah that is fascinating she yeah she she was hysterical. And the people on taxi to I mean I mean I nobody thought of Judd Hirsch really is a comedian and veto had been in Cuckoo's nest and some and some odd way the fascinating casting choices. That's <hes> I've been very lucky and you want talking about how I mean. The character Louie Depalma my you know in real life is a total scumbag and yet the lovable vulnerable one yeah so you had Adda theory for why he became a lovable guy well his height yeah I mean and <hes> God love the boys Jim and Ed Weinberger and <hes> Davis when we were doing the pilot of of Taxi <hes> <hes> Louis comes out of the cage in the first scene and I remember going back after the first run through and the guy saying we gotta keep minute to the last scene you don't WanNa see his stature until the last scene and they were right smart and he came at had a cage. Nobody could believe it so <hes> yeah and so you know he had that wonderful vulnerability and Dan Danny such a great actor such a great actor. It's so funny you knew right away when you read that script and you James See I heard you. It was the hardest show you ever did but you. You knew right away when you got the script in your hands that you had to do it while the no there was no way it was not going to do it even when when my agent called said you're going to get a script from I'm Jim and ED. I knew I was going to do it because it was back then when I was kind of floundering around doing all these different shows and when I when they show when riders of their reputation chose to send me a script. I knew I was going to do that show. There was no two ways about it because I knew how good they were now. Was it you who <hes> I hope it was you who got together with the cast of friends and said after this. Your lives are gonNA totally change. That was me that was me. I <hes> I was doing I did about four or five friends in a row at the beginning of the Ron I did pile it and I think the first four or five shows and after about the third show I saw how the audiences react or was reacting to these six people and the last were huge. The writing was so good it was so funny and I and I got warner. WanNa brothers who who was the producers of the show to give me the plane their private jet to fly the six of them to Vegas. I just wanted to celebrate the fact that we were having a great time. So I flew him million to six of them. We flew to Vegas and took them to dinner at Spago and I said to them. You guys have to enjoy this because this is your last shot shot at anonymity well and they said why you're kidding me. Oh no and I said yes. I have a feeling I I can see. I have a sense and <hes> I think this is going to be this. Show is going to be huge saw we we we had dinner and we went to gamble none of mad money. They all had a borrowed from me. Days are over. Yeah I yeah no <HES>. It turns out. I was right. I had <hes> it was just a magical moment. I had <hes> you you know. I still am friendly with them. All I still see them a lot. During the year and it's just something special we all have Nice Nice <hes> of that moment and <hes> <hes> our the six you know not six beautiful wonderful actors but six wonderful sweet people that <hes> hopefully we'll. We'll always be friends. How'd you like working with <hes>. We had Ron Liebman here too. I know you've worked with. I know you've worked with Ron full times. What a sweet guy a Hudson Street yeah with Tony. That's right. Dan Yeah Yeah and I did another one with him. I can't remember I don't have it on my card. Yeah <hes> I'll find it but you Pacific Pacific extinction everybody. You mentioned his Jewish state. I I'm in charge of it. Ah Joey Pants we had Bush Emmy and Alan Alda was here. He's a Zonta like me. Try to squeeze him. I'm in James. It's hard. We can't have a token GOI. I have to go back to a Jew that we have to talk about because it somebody you both with new Gilbert Newman a little bit and that's <hes> Andy Kaufman. Oh God yes <hes> yeah <hes> i. It's an hour show too but we'll try to try to condense it. Yeah telemedicine our show and I loved Andy. He was just a to me one of the most brilliant and braves comics I'd ever seen in my life and tell us the agreement that contract of how how he said he had to bring in another person who will have its own dressing room part. was that no we when you had to have. Tony to yeah <hes> the agreement the boys signed with Andy was that he would do the show if this gentleman named Tony Clifton could do one episode of Taxi. Tony Clifton was Andy Kaufman's alter ego so when Andy would do a concert <hes> Tony Clifton who was andy with <hes> prosthetics on his face and <hes> <hes> <hes> stuff suit so he looked fat and a ruffled shirt and a brocade tuxedo because he was a lousy lounge singer from begging okay so he would open Andy. Show and you know get it off the stage and they'd say bring on Andy Take mission at an intermission and in an after intermission Andy would come on and <hes> you know do foreign man and do whatever he did Elvis and so a great elvis yeah the one of the best he had to sneer sneer yeah yeah so <hes> we saw the show came up that he was going to do and <hes> I know exactly when it happened. I don't Mary lose memory. She has crazy Komo but it was the day that Bucky Dent hit two home run. Only one game playoff right eight and so- Andy was Andy had day night reversal. Andy Kaufman would come in at one o'clock for rehearsal because he was up till four in the morning and slept till twelve and we were starting at nine o'clock rehearsal and here in with the show with Tony Clifton and here comes Tony Clifton nine. Am in the morning and <hes> he's he he. He wants us to stop watching the game because he wants to rehearse and he never wanted to her so we started this rehearsal and it was not gonNa work because you had. Andy Calvin playing Tony Clifton playing Louie Depalma's brother and so I called up two boys they came to see a run through and decided we have to get rid of Tony Clifton and so if you see man in the moon it's it's all in there well. It's fascinating from our perspective because Bonner's is playing. We had here on the PODCAST. West is playing a what an amalgam of you and Weinberger Yeah Yeah Yeah it's bizarre and and what I I find so strange about the movies is that Danny Devito is not an taxi playing George Yeah. He's played jewelry. We also had yes so <hes> <hes> was depicted in the film edge pretty pretty close. I mean I remember I remember that day when it came to when it came down to fire him and Andy <hes> Tony had the two prostitutes you know normal normal shit that happened and I remember you know Ed Fire and Ed firemen and and Tony said I'm not leaving and a great. I'm going Holy Shit. This is the the greatest ghetto theater I've ever seen and so we're watching. We're watching Judd's watching. I'm watching Tony. Danza had a super eight camera and he can't find the film sad saw. You won't leave so fondly. Judd says all right. I'm going to go play so judd grabs grabs him and throws him off the stage and everything like that and it was Jus- It was wonderful theater and we we hired another actor in the show wha- went on and it was fine and Andy came into next week as if nothing happened. I love that when Andy was doing stuff like that did did Davor you or the other actors say okay. Cut this shit no no because Andy didn't do anything like that and he played lot guy and he had a photographic memory. He knew he knew the part. It was one dimensional character that Andy could play and <hes> he never none of that shit ever happened other than the Tony Clifton incident. You got an audience with him though too which I found fascinating. You had you had automatic. You had dinner with him. I we had them. Edward have occasional parties on taxi and Andy was uncomfortable so <hes> my wife back back then and I wouldn't have andy come over to the house and we would talk again. He was just he was just meek. Saul from great neck long island you know but a genius you know and then we all went to see his milk and cookies show after <hes> when when he was on taxi Acsi when he was at the garage or somewhere Huntington Hartford Stymie wrestled okay and then you know he did all the characters and everything down the end of the show we walked out there were buses and the buses took us at a pizza factory for milk and cookies and it was just it it was so wonderful and weird so magical nature to the Guy Gilbert. How well did you did? You get to know him not well but you but you saw them in the club's early on I ah yeah we never actually spoke he would come in. I remember I very clearly him doing stuff like <hes> reading singing a hundred bottles of beer on those y'all do everyone and then it gets point we go. Oh Shit sheared. He's GonNa do the entire but <hes> you know. He never told jokes no and he never told jokes he he he would he would do something to you laughed. I mean he he came out. Read Gone With the wind and you you know you didn't know what was going on pretty soon. You'd start laughing and that that was that was. Andy's you know. He was incredibly brave. Performance Art Yeah Prof Total Performance and farce. Look this talk a little bit too quickly. Can you tell us about two actors that struck us that we're on taxi that you directed by Victor Bono playing playing Reverend Jim's Dad and Ruth Gordon why I don't remember too much about Victor. I don't you know I don't remember that. There's a long time ago. I know Roosa- Zay Ruth. I remember <hes> yes. She was sugar sugar Mama Yup you know and <hes> I might as well tell the story. I don't think anybody's nobody's ever told I think Jihad told me too story. <hes> she had <hes> she had in the show she had this. The Sky was kind of a <hes> a Semitic looking guy who was her lover <hes> and his name aim was <hes> harder on and <hes> that was the actor's name and I said I said head coach. I was done with a scene and I said <hes> I said to my ad. I said Okay I want to start the next thing I need. Ruth Gordon and Harrow on and she started laughing and I don't know why she was laughing anyway that she came. She did the seat she was very sweet and then I said to Shod Judd after why was ruth laughing at that point in judge said 'cause she thought you said I need Ruth Gordon and a hard on the Larry Eighty eight various sir. How great is she and where's Poppa by the way all Mike kind of black comedy? That Hollywood doesn't make anymore. <hes> yeah that was that was so wonderful to be able to work quits her yeah. Let's let's talk about cheers to the casting quickly because also I was fascinated by the <hes> by the way I love you and you refer to you in the Charles. Brothers is to Mormons and a Jew speaking speaking of Jews but <hes> the the genesis of cheers is interesting how it was going to be at first you guys were fawlty towers fans fan yeah. We'll talk about cleese if we have time and <hes> at first it was going to be a hotel and then it was going to be a bar on the way to vegas us in Barstow and then it was going to be a sports bar and then you pick Boston I mean it's a it's an interesting road. Also the casting is interesting. How you brought in three duos lows we brought in the finals for for Salmon Diane. The finalists yeah Julia Duffy and Fred Dryer Fred Dryer was at that point a former defensive end for the rams yeah yeah sure billy vein and Lisa eichhorn Gilbert yes yeah well well billy vein and Lisa Eichhorn who were in <hes> Yanks together and Ted Shelley and we <hes> we invited the network to paramount because there was a bar there was a bar set on bosom buddies so we use that bar set and we were stole three actors and <hes> all three sets of actors and they were all wonderful in their own right. I mean billy was great great and <hes> Freddie Dryer once Sam alone because at that point he was a wide receiver for the Patriots and <hes> and Julia grade they all had but the people who had the greatest chemistry were ten shelly so <hes> we went up to the room and we discussed it people somebody somebody was really want us to hire dryer but at that point he didn't have the the the comedy chops we needed so we ended up with. Ted and Shelley and it <hes> I think it worked out say Gelius another case of Har- character was it's like a snooty bitch and yet she's a lovable character absolutely lovable yeah yeah half the men wanted to <hes> killer and a half the men wanted to sleep with her yeah and it was I give credit to all the credit on that to the Charles Brothers <hes> because when we discussed script before they went off to write it we discuss Sam working for a woman and <hes> that became the permutation after shelley law left but at that point we we when I left them. We add the character of the coach we had norm. We add cliff. Everybody liked that but we didn't have we didn't have cliff but we had a we had <hes> <hes> norm and coach and Carlin stuff like that <hes> and <hes> they came back. I remember coming home from a vacation and there was a script on my doorstep four step and ahead created character Diane which I had never seen before. I've never seen character and the bar conversation sation. I had never seen that and I said to them. You've radio back to television because it was so literate so so smart so funny I couldn't. I couldn't believe what they did and <hes> it was <hes> you you know it was a seminal moment for all of us that moment that that's gripped arrived and <hes> so you know we got we we cast it right. We got lucky with when somebody laughed with replacing them. That was somebody equally as good or sometimes somebody better and <hes> you know it was it was a wonderful eleven years. Yeah like woody. Harrelson was totally different character than the coach was yeah well. We were in eighty four. We followed <hes> family. Ties and Michael was such a star that when we when Nikki passed away we didn't want to do an older guy again. We want to do a younger guy because we wanted to hopefully get some of the Michael Fox audience to watch cheers and then we had a kid who he really loves to play the part and the last active walk in the room was woody and and he walked in and he read with Teddy and we went but of course why didn't we think going that way and that was it. We just got lucky and this is something Gilbert. I'll never experienced but does isn't there electric as an electric moment when all of this comes together her the the right into the writing coalescence the acting the right actors walk in the room where you just go you know in your bones. This thing is special special. This thing is going to fly and how does that yeah. We were flying when he came around yeah but I mean you go back to the beginning. That's what I mean it yeah. We you know you gotta get a great script. Then he got a cast great then you gotta get network to put you on a good time slasher because was sometimes great shows. Don't have anybody famous in their their in them and there's no reason to watch him so you gotta get into time slot where people can <hes> come to the dance late because it takes awhile and television to get the word out so we were lucky you know. We were lucky with a wonderful wonderful script on cheers. We were lucky that Ted and shelley were available at that time. We were lucky to be on. NBC which which had nothing you know there was nothing the Sitcom was dying back then they didn't have any big shows couple of dramas <hes> L. A. Law and Maybe Hill Street and <hes> we you know you knew I always have a dress rehearsal before I shoot the show three or four days and on cheers we had this dress rehearsal and the audience crazy so I knew we had some special and I knew they were laughing. They laughed norm when norm entered right and and I looked Glenn Charleston I said Oh my God they're laughing at attitudes so I knew and you know we were lucky. We were lucky we kind of <hes> you know you did nothing the first two years and all of a sudden the cosby came on and so we got more people to dance and you know. I it's electric it happens. It's you know I've I've had happened four or five or six times and it's just nothing like it quite an experience y original story line to the Big Bang theory we did on that. We did two pilots. <hes> we did a pilot. First pilot was <hes> the boys was Johnny and Jimmy <hes> Sheldon Gordon and Leonard who walking down the street and they find a girl crying on the sidewalk decide to take her in and live with her are should turns out. She's a hooker so you had these nerds living with a hooker which I thought was a wonderful parameters but we could never get the casting right on that and God. I'd love Chuck Chuck. Laurie went back and said to the network. Let's take another shot at this and they created a penny across the hall and put into more nerds and and the rest is history in <hes>. It's a tribute to chuck. I only did the pilot of that. Show <hes> and <hes> you know I've worked with chuck since then a a lot of Egypt genius or what he does. He knows characters. He knows funny and <hes> those you know he's. He's just keeping this Sitcom alive right now. He is speaking of Jews. We had on the podcast judo fan letter. When you guys were working on cheers from Norman Lear I did. It was a first fan letter. What did that mean to you. Oh my God I showed it to the boys. You know this is when we were struggling. When we were yeah it came to the right time. Yeah the first last year on Thanksgiving finish. We were the last rated show on the air. <hes> that that week it was scary. Norman wrote this letter how much he loved off the show and <hes> we went to lunch with him and who better to go to lunch with the demand crater archie bunker and we went to the Brown Derby. RV which no longer exists and we sat there and off Norman and it was so wonderful to see that he was an all of us. How lovely Nice wow you just at the time you guys needed a shot in the arm and praise from Caesar showed up. Yes that is fantastic. Let's talk a little bit about will and grace before we let you out of a Ah James because I know it's a show. You're very proud of as you should be because it's a game changing show trail-blazing show. It's a show that means a lot to a lot of people and change the culture and as with taxi you kind of knew from the beginning. You knew I guess when you saw Maxon David script again. I read the script <hes> it was <hes> a tribute to Warren littlefield because Max David wrote a pilot for NBC previously and they didn't pick that up but they warren said. I like this character. Characters will and grace. Can we do a show about them. So Max and David went off and wrote the show and I read it and I loved it. I just I thought how wonderful wonderful this show was. It was smart. It was funny. It was pertinent and <hes> I said to you have to do the show so I did. This pilot and it was again at the dress rehearsal in front of this audience. It's it was through the roof. It was just wonderful and <hes> so the network picked it up and and <hes> the rest is history. I mean we've we're doing the reboot right now. Almost two hundred and thirty a show and that is still makes me laugh harder than any other show and you said you're against reunions <hes>. How are you said they're hard to do to do this is Max much idea we did a political video with the four of them and the network like the show and the four of them kind of look the same so we said why not try it so we tried it and it was <hes> it's turned out okay. It's it's listen to you. They've still got the same chemistry. I know. I was skeptical nickel too. I said well. I don't know it's been years and will it happen again. Can you make that magic again but the infectious performers no other show does those jokes she you can yeah okay yeah where they where the where the leading showing EUPHEMISMS <hes> because you've amazement or funny the actual word and <hes> it's just it it makes me. It's such a delight to go to work. It's such a delight to hear these wonderful lines to Max and David and the rest of writers created so it's now you know I'm well into my late thirties and to be able to to be doing your late thirties. That really makes you laugh is is is just gives you a new life life so a couple of actors that I that I marked that I set aside here. <hes> from from will and grace we just lost the great rip torn yeah any any a particular standout moments or gene wilder somebody. We also lost not long ago. Yeah we had you know we we had so many guest stars because once the show <hes> took off everybody wanted to be on the show. We've had every gay icon world. Yep absolutely share not job. Rondo not kill. Maybe there's room in the reboot. Gill Patti lupone. We had Burnett Peter. All of all of them say yeah yeah. We had Elton Yeah Right. <hes> <hes> we the <hes> <hes> they were all great. They you know if you're if you're on that show as a guest star you gotta come up at a level of of the four of them. If if you don't come up to the level of the four that you're going to be alive but so every guest actor you know had had fun on the show <hes> you know sure and close was playing Annie Liebowitz and she added Great Time Seven Bacon Kevin Bacon was Douglas Douglas Playing Geico. Yeah Taylor's dancing yeah yeah and you got to direct the great Sydney. Pollack Sydney was will's father a wonderful wonderful man so we were all in all when he was on the stage and he loved it. He loved being directed. Now Start as an actor right yeah yeah yeah yeah. How does it feel and I know you're not a proselytizer. You've said it and you know you leave the political stuff to to people like Norman but it has to be gratifying to to be part of a show is especially in light of what Joe Biden said when he when he I guess he evolved on gay marriage that that will and grace was in some way responsible for changing the country's perception of gay people to be part of something like that yeah. I don't think you know what we say on. This show is <hes>. What we've said is ellen opened the door and we broke it down also <hes> I I'm not good with proselytizing and I don't think Maxim David WanNa preach either what the show did the best example a is I would drive car pool on Thursday in <hes> when my kids went to high school and these were thirteen fourteen year olds and will and grace was on Thursday night and I would pick them up and as we driving school they would say to me what's on will and grace tonight right and I thought Blau we have thirteen and fourteen year olds watching the show they have no preconception of what gay is this and so they're enjoying the show so maybe they will not be <hes> influenced by a bad talk about gay people or something like that. Maybe they've been exposed to these each people so there'll be some tolerance not to say that they would but I I said so. Maybe elsewhere in the world there are these young people watching a show and getting <hes> an idea that gay people are funny like everybody else <music> and they're just other human beings so i. I don't think we ever set out to do that. I you know I told Max and David at at the end of the first episode of will and grace we did. I wanted a kiss between will and grace so that may be America would think that will take the magic pills bills and mary-grace and become straight <hes> and that was never going to happen but I figured if I could get people to think that they'd watch the show and then they see how funny it was and it wouldn't care so maybe it worked. Maybe it didn't work but <HES> <HES> you know. Two hundred two hundred thirty shows later was still on the air. Keep it going as long as long as you can. I just quickly want to read some messages that we got here. I reached out to people you worked with some that have done this show. Some that haven't Michael mckean Aga says please send my regards tell him I watched a taxi episode in a Hotel Room. The Lo- the local broadcasts was having quit problems which slowed the play. Bla- The playback and Jim Brooks trademark whooping laugh turn into a melancholy Banshee Motif and it made me love him even more I I work with Michael <hes> on Laverne and Shirley Yep Yep Don. Rio says just tell Jimmy I love him. which I wanted the pass along and Allen's wife I asked about a pilot you did call big shots in America right with Joe Montana? That's it and he he says the pilots. Let's should have worked. Great cast great director in the SCRIP wasn't bad but Ash Jim if we could work together again some day. I've matured a bit and I've done a few things since that pilot. Ah I loved Allen I loved I loved also working in New York. Lauren was the producer on that pilots. I got to work with Lauren and that was is <hes> that that was great and Ken Levine. He says ask James <hes> Jim if he held against my partner David Isaacson I that during the bar wars episode of cheers we wrote we had their rival Gary Player practical joke by filling Rebecca's office with sheep. Does this mean anything to you. Know <music> God Kenya. David wrote a lot of really really funny scripts fi riders yeah yeah less last thing. I want to ask you is how did it feel <hes> when NBC decided to do the tribute show I i. I guess you had your doubts because you made a joke you said to Sean Hayes who was producing it. You asked him <hes> if you could take drugs that they were taking yeah so you're strike me as a kind of a humble guy was it. Was it tough to to to do that to let that everybody pay tribute to you and then get have to get up and make a speech yes yeah. I'm not you know I've acted in a few shows. I'm sure you guys I was in a new heart and a road. We have them all here. Yeah fortunately <hes> it's my <hes>. It's my it's not even a real. It's it's only an IRA <hes> <hes> it was very difficult for me. I you know I am. I am a humble guy. I <hes> I work. I you know I work from the heart and to see all that tribute Luke. It was amazing to me but the great moment that those at home didn't see was the fact of the big bank has going over to the cast of friends who they had watched while and hugging and people going to see the taxi cast cheers cast these actors in shows. I did lighter who had grown up on. These shows to get all these people in this room at the same time. was you know it. was you know it was. I got such an office out of it. I I in case. You didn't know I was Jewish. I I was I was. I was thrilled by it. I can imagine I I I had. I had a wonderful time showing your humility. You gave credit to everyone around you. I mean right down to the crew the actors the show runners the writers right yeah to preserve it. They deserve it. I'm nothing without them that sweet. We could do one hundred shows. There's so much I I mean. I don't know if you can see the cards arts. I have on the table. I got about twenty cards here. I even asked me anything you want. I even made a list of the pie of some of the series that that that I like like he was talking about free country that you that you directed the associates with Martin Short dummy best of the West Pacific Station with Robert geom- Madman the people with the Great Dabney Coleman Georgia Leila. We talked about <hes> Vic Vic Frescoes Sean Saves the world <hes> Don Rios Pearl Stark raving being mad. These were good shows yeah yeah but <hes> you know it's just finale boys. Oh that's what Joey yeah yeah another one and Liber teeny Libertine God joy pants and Chris Maloney yes yes but they didn't have the luck you did. They didn't have the things is going for them. That you know it just sometimes shows works. Sometimes they don't. I you know it's <hes> it's it's a crapshoot and I've been holding back from asking you to do this. But can you sing a little of my country Tis they. Why don't you haven't seen as half Torah. I pay somebody to sing my after did it was <hes> speaking of that. I was I was my parents. My parents asked me at thirteen <hes> question. You should never ask a young Jewish boy which is do you you. WanNa be Bob Management because the Jewish boy will say no because it work so I was not neither was Gilbert. Yeah what I wasn't you still do it. You can still do it because I was by. Mitch fit at forty seven and years old how how old was Kirk Douglas's side. He was like in his nineties nineties. He's always been mentioned a forty seven because my first wife was a conservative. Jew and I said why not so I was committed an Orthodox Schule. I <hes> I did the prayers in and out of the Torah. I paid a guy to sing door form. You weren't kidding and and <hes> as a tribute to me <hes> <hes>. At My Fiftieth Birthday Party <hes> Brandon Tartikoff the late wonderful Bill Brandon Tartikoff who was my dear friend <hes> made a video for me and one of the P the a couple people interviewed they interviewed the Charles Brothers and the Charles Rather said I was the only man they knew that was by Mitchell to forty seven and lost his hair at thirteen. Ah So I got two guys here. We're not originally Bar Mitzvah when they were when they were supposed to be but you can be my Mr data anytime yeah and James will direct it. Gill Yeah Yeah if some people will promise he'll come forth money. You'll get cufflinks fans <hes>. Are you going to do something else with Norman. Lear you did the the Family Jefferson's reboot. Yeah I had a great time. I had a wonderful time. I work with Norman. Yeah Yeah One on my idols and <hes> with all these actors who <hes> who are all wonderful stars in their own right who came together earned was was in my in my life boat with me. It's Nice we may just wonderful show and it was thrilling and exciting and it got good ratings and I think they're doing a couple more. I and it was <hes> you know it was wonderful to direct the Bible because <hes> <hes> they'll scripts. Are you know they are great. They're sacred their sacred yeah. I know you're a big admirer of Larry David <hes> James James but did you know that Larry David Directed Gilbert and a pilot down. I don't know that right at an elected yeah he wrote. He wrote his forgive me. It was a pilot Coal Norman Corner. Have you heard of it. I have not okay barely have I were starting with Arnold. Stang was show bad bad wasn't in fact you near slater years later when they were pitching. Seinfeld <hes> <hes> they they yes well. Okay who's who'd be writing this and they said Larry David and they said isn't he the Guy World Caliber Scout for James. We'll send you a link so you can enjoy all my God. God I can't I can't wait. We'll sleep at night. We'll send you a link. Thanks so much for doing this. I'll thank you guys. This was a joy oy for us. Thank you I appreciate it and <hes> some questions. I've never been asked before and I loved it. I'm glad thank you GONNA sing. My I can on my country. Tis But I had to sing in all <hes> also I can also sing <hes> <hes> from the Opera Carmen Goddamn on Today News Audi Fonua Ella Man of many talents man as eight the Emmys and you just made them sing my country James. Thank you so much. Thanks for all the years of entertainment for being such a part of our lives. Thank you guys you're so sweet and good luck well. This is Gilbert. Godfrey has been Gilbert Godfrey Jr amazing colossal podcasts with my co host Frank Santo Padre a end the man who's done millions. TV show millions never fucking high. You heard me James Shopper. You got a better choice of better. A chance of Edgar Rice burroughs James. Thank you so much. What one of my favorite shows that we've done. Thank you soon as bad okay you can see. Red Dawn Off <music> and Gilbert Godfrey the amazing colossal podcast is produced by Darah Godfried and Franks onto padre with the audio production by Frankfurt Orosa web and social media is handled by Mike mccaddon Greg and John Bradley Seals Special Audio contributions by John Impeach special things to John John Murray and Paul Raeburn. I'm Nick Vata and I'm Nick Turner and we are the House of get rich nick for this podcast. We're out there in the world trying every get rich quick scheme game to tell you guys which ones actually work and which ones aren't worth your tank like donating plasma online poker task grab it writing e books betting on the ponies going coming on. Ebay background extra making money from metal detectors lemonade stand selling fruit in the backyard trivia nights selling from the backyard. We're walking walking dogs on rover. We're playing video games for cash. We're starting to patriots way too early spending how much you walk. We're hijacking jacking a truck going southbound Tijuana and no one's going anywhere until we get what we want. If you are intrigued by any of that thank you you can tell which ones are not worth your time because we're still doing the podcast. If we were rich. We'd be on a yacht somewhere on rainbow. Get Rich Nick is out now listening stitcher apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.