Moscow Mitch

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

This <music> hello and welcome to the daily beans for Wednesday July thirty first two thousand nineteen today we talk about privileged families taking advantage of a loophole to steal grants from students in need a police shooting case underway. That's getting no coverage California Governor Gavin newsom signs of the new law requiring the release of presidential tax returns for the primaries the first night of the debates and Moscow Mitch. I'm your host A._G.. And with me today or Julius Johnson enjoyed Cockburn Hello Hey guys. How're you guys doing good well? How are you? I'm well as well well. Thank you yeah we did Beach Dog Day Dog Beach Today and <hes> so we've got some sun so I'm feeling a little tired and <hes> and <hes> and then <hes> we cleaned our house today so that's nice and so then I felt it was necessary as probably take a shower because I was so grubby that I felt uncomfortable in my clean house. Else was a good day to get out. I'm glad you got to the beach. I was biking around the Neighborhood Beautiful Day yeah yeah. It was nice so thanks for that weather for San Diego. We pay high rents for that so I'm glad we got it for a little bit. WE ARE SMACK DAB in the middle of the debates and we record before they err so we're going to add so. We're going to do our news and then we're GONNA take break. Watch the debates. I'm gonNA live tweet them. At the at daily beans pod not the daily beans at daily Jelly Beans pod. I keep getting that messed up <hes> and then after that <hes> I'm going to record like a wrap up of of the debates gates and we'll stick at the end of the show so you make your show a little bit late tonight. Patrons sorry about that. It's still going to come out in the morning for everybody else. <hes> do you guys have any ideas about who's going to win. Even before we start wars no Brown who said Warren Yeah Cool I agree <hes> there's no brown candidates right commas tomorrow Yeah Julia and Yeah Yeah Yeah Definitely going for Warren. I think warrants GONNA win today. Yeah me too. I Agree Warren Yeah. I'm hoping Buddha judge can have a stronger showing this time. He was pretty strong strong in the first one but I I would like for him to really come pulled out about race sort of thing. That's kind of what I'm looking for to <hes> Oh can appropriately address yeah. I wouldn't even know how to do that so I hope someone's on how to do it or watch in the hopes that he will handle it gracefully incorrectly yeah and I was thinking like some of the fringe candidates that aren't really making waves should just come out and say I'm the only thing I'm running on an to unseat trump. That's the only reason I'm doing an F. Russia in a yeah and not know homophobic way right just in. I don't feel like doing tonight way true and I I really think I I just wanted that other but you know I I really think that okay. I just feel like they have to do something me. No major or noteworthy or something and that's something no one's tried yet. Everyone's trying to run on the issues. No one's running against trump except maybe Tom Steiner yeah but he's not even on the debate stage. No one's running. I mean motions like Ooh there could be like a catchphrase like they're running on the issues and not the tissues Oh you know they should that address like the racist comments recently in the fact that Republicans are saying it's not racist like we need to apparently go back into finally racism right because everyone's sort of nitpicking picking can Joe Biden for example about his bussing answer and <hes> about the crime bill and unintended consequences of that three strikes rule how we have so many non violent criminals in prison in most most of them are people of Color and disenfranchise people who then again don't have the right to vote anymore because of all that and then here we have a dude in the White House telling people people who color to go back to the shit holes they came from and it's like I understand that you want Democrat against Democrat in the primaries but I want some candidate to just stand up and say are are you missing the bigger picture we have a racist rapist exchange that middle letter for whatever you like in the White House and <hes> and we need to beat him the end in policies are important of course but I do crave that to someone just address. The Big Grace's elephant in the room. You know like just call it out and then go on with Your Plans Republican Elephant Nice Warren go on with your plans because I mean policies are nice but none of it matters unless we get trump out of the White House totally yeah so. Do you feel like they're going to stray away from asking them a lot of explicitly race-based space questions just because there are no representation of any people of color like adults tomorrow question but I I do think they will probably ask like Bernie and and Warren like what are you going to do for voters of color or people of color because the kind of and Buddha judge especially because they need to prove that there's like zero people people of color for Buddha judge and not very many at all for sanders and so that's something that they would have to rectify there was a poll that came out Quinnipiac poll that came out trump trump eighty six percent of black Americans will not vote for trump. Thank God so four percent said they would yeah. I met one of those guys Yeah Yeah with the Baltimore comets to I mean they really could address some very relevant things right now. Just briefly it does seem a little bit weird to me though that it's kind of like nick asking a question that would warrant the perspective of a person of color to check things. They might say up there yeah tonight too so n._F._l.. Obvious Kala did a really good job of that the last time where she said as you know the only woman of color exaggerate now. I'd like to address your question about racism right right exactly so it's weird that they won't even have anybody that could even provide that actual perspective Combi let you finish energy have a personal. There's no colleges run across the stage every once just this week or that would just make everyone feel small insignificant. I never run and we're going to end the conversation before starting emails. You guys have a lot of news to get to so let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes notes all right guys. Let's kick off the hot notes with a story from PROPUBLICA. What good journalism they have here they about privileged families exploiting exploiting a loophole Jordan? What did the journalists at Propublica fine yes so it's in Propublica Illinois specifically? They're uncovering that there's a group of wealthy individuals individuals basically they're. They're on a cohort or anything. It just happens to be wealthy white people presumably I don't want to say I'll white people but kind of kind of people <hes> that are using the loophole of essentially letting their kids in their junior and senior year of high school <hes> effectively not be independence anymore so they can file for financial aid as an independent which is giving them themselves or whatever I don't know I hesitated to say emancipate because I don't know if it's exactly emancipation the process says that they're going through but there are transferring them over to a grandparent or an aunt or someone that doesn't somewhere on social security or whatever that doesn't have the kind of money that their parents have right right so they're claiming themselves as being financially independent and because of that they're getting all of these extra grants scholarships resources because they're doing that and they've gone through and seeing that there's been a lot of cases between January twenty eighteen and now it's like over forty cases or something of this this just in Illinois and the people some of the parents are doctors their lawyers there one is like an assistant superintendent so these are not low income come families in a lot of The suburban high school called someone out of university who had sent an invitation to one of their high school students. That's about to go to their school an invitation into an event that specifically tailored for low income students and they were like this person is not low income. Why did they get this invitation and they said Oh we'll because they're they're on our list of people that are basically like struggling financially and see I couldn't get aid because my parents made too much money <hes> and <music>? I'm totally fine with that because this aid is finite. It's capped so if you are getting it someone else's not and it's different from the V._A.. Because a lot of a lot of veterans are like I don't want to sign up for my V._A.. Benefits because I could be taking away benefits from somebody has worse off than me but that's not how the V._A.. Benefits work. It's not like Pie. Everyone is entitled to if they are disabled <hes> in whatever way to get their compensation for that but this is a finite pot of money and and it's it reminds me of there's two things here first of all that sucks because it's a finite pot of money and it reminds me of that movie Solman Oilman where he took a bunch of tanning pills to odd to look like he was black and scholarship for a black student before the black girl who fell in love with I'm found out about it. She was mad and he couldn't figure it out until she explained. I was up for that scholarship and I didn't get it because they gave it to you at the last minute Jeez and so the I mean this isn't that particular situation but he kind of is and the second thing. This is why education this is. Why wish needs to be lowered? There's why education needs to be cheaper. If we look at the larger picture here people are cheating and fighting to get an education that should be afforded all of us at no cost yeah. I don't know at least at a lower cost right and I don't I agree Lina <unk>. I definitely do not doubt that some of these families that are doing this legitimately need more aid schools are so fucking expensive yeah and the threshold isn't high hi. It's not like if you're a millionaire you know it's my parents who were you know blue collar workers a steelworker and a Kent County or Asto no county clerk recorder working to maybe middle class jobs and they made too much money for me to get financial aid so yeah. It's it's. It's it's it's complicated and it's weird for everyone. The core of this problem is the massive expense of college and the huge debt that we end up in at the end of it <hes> <hes> regardless but this is also a shit. It's a Dick move is a dick move but again yeah. It's like sort of I I mean we could talk about it forever rattling. It's a huge dig move and I bet there are people that one hundred percent could easily pay for it and they're just just the there. Were a few that that you're like. I don't know the percentage manager. Whatever but <hes> also this week <hes> Julie's a big story? That's getting small coverage involving police shooting here in Oklahoma on yes so <hes> this was because in two thousand sixteen eighteen Alfred along go was shot and killed by police officer in Oklahoma named Richard Gonzales and this week the trial of the only trial that made it to court regarding his incident and began and it was filed by his wife daughter and sister Lucy who witnessed her brother's death and along those death or I'm sorry Orlando's death and the filming of it brought San Diego uh-huh into the spotlight of the black lives matter movement which is why it's Kinda weird that this trial hasn't gotten a lot of media attention but supposedly the lawyers on both sides don't want to taint the jury pool. Change your favorite word yeah but <hes> I think it needs attention I do yeah we did get some some attention when it happened at least here in San Diego go I don't know how it was received across the country but yeah because he was having a mental health issues and and we've actually done a couple of things since then to ensure and in fact <hes> <hes> our <hes> marketing manager -sarily Steiner is is working on a program to be at these responses when cops are called and there is a she's a less clinical social social worker and there is somebody with mental health issues so that they don't face this because I think he had a vape pen with him and they thought it was a gun he pulled it out and point. It was a gun but he was going through a breakdown. Yeah yeah sister was like He. He's not dangerous. He's just having you know. He's he's having a mental breakdown he needs he needs help. Helping US healthcare. He needs mental health care and this shouldn't happen and <hes> you know. I'm I'm. I'm interested to see how this trial goes. Does <hes> so you know we're definitely gonNA keep our eye on it but I I felt like it needed a little more coverage definitely getting sorry by taint the jury I don't think I will I think <hes> the reporter who's been covering this. Her name's Bianca Bruno yes. She's I think a local reporter too but she is the one who tweeted about this and you've got a lot of attention and yeah I really cool it. She's following this and just needs more attention. That's all yeah. We'll definitely keep your. We'll keep you posted its. I mean the trials already happening so it should be over the week next week. Yeah so <hes> stick around <hes> next week and we'll tell you what's going on with that and then guys this week California governor our Governor Gavin newsom has signed a law that will make Donald Trump ineligible for California's primary ballot next year unless he discloses. I think six years of his tax returns five years of his stature to a lot of the tax returns federal tax returns the law took effect Tuesday and it will spark a high profile court cases trump's lawyer. Jay seculow has has promised to sue many feel if it succeeds it could set a precedent for other states to put weird requirements on candidates <hes> I don't see it that way because you and I have had this discussion about court cases and the precedents they sat got in how they're not blanket precedent. It's more specifically about tax returns. In the California state primary. I kind of wish that he would have done state tax returns in order to run in the state primary. It might have been a little more secure as a lawsuit because I'm all for this. I'm all for the transparency and you know because people were uh-huh. Oh what about Dem's I'm like all dems disclosing their tax returns and cool and yes and I want this transparency but yeah you also have to be careful. People think it might right encroach on the constitution that says you only have two three these three criteria to run for president but that is the federal election that is the federal general election and not California primary. We run our own primary. Hi Mary so we'll see how it turns out in court. I texted Renato Mariotti about it. <hes> that's <hes> the host of the on topic podcast former Federal Prosecutor cuter and he says it's a complicated issue. If it's an additional qualification added by the state it's unconstitutional because you can't add additional qualifications to be president but there's is a very good argument that it isn't a qualification because anyone could meet it just by releasing. It's just like forcing candidates to turn in signatures to be on the ballot that makes sense. Another issue is whether it curtails the First Amendment Rights Have Republicans. <hes> does the law tell them how they must pick their own nominees. It's complicated. No one knows for sure her <hes>. I don't know what the G._O._P.. Do in response personally. I'm all for transparency so that's what Renato says I concur with Renato Sergei response. What if they didn't file their taxes they should all have their taxes right but with that somehow make them not like all eligible? If someone's like I ain't got it broke the law aw yeah yeah so. Let's find out because I remember there. Was this headline I saw in this on this topic that said it might affect some other candidates but I didn't read it yet. I'm just curious about what they can mean by by that. Yeah I don't know what do you think do you do. They should be forced to release their tax returns to be on the primary ballot. <hes> I mean I also I'm just a fan of the transparency and I don't really see what someone truly stands to lose by doing it unless they're already a criminal kind of course or someone. That's kind of one of those things where I don't think it's like a huge invasion of privacy really and I've noticed it. Most Republicans think that we want this so that we can prove he's not a billionaire but but that is actually has nothing to do with it. First of all we already know is not a billionaire and we got We want to see if he's beholden to any enemies. That's basically it and you know what is he laundering money is he is. He not paying his taxes is he. Is he dodging taxes. Those are important things for Americans to know I think especially since we already have all these breadcrumbs about how many times he's claimed bankruptcy and all of these things so it's like I would just I would love how yes he's still sits. There totes this image as like the wealthiest man in America to see how oh you got to point B yeah. It should be interesting and one last thing late breaking last night in New York federal judge dismissed the D._N._C.'s lawsuit which sought to hold the trump campaign and wikileaks liable for the Russian election hacks <hes>. I'm not mad about this dismissal. Basically the the judge was citing the first amendment and this goes back to when assange assange we found out assange was brought up on charges of espionage for his two thousand ten dissemination of what Chelsea Manning stall and the difference is is he didn't he but he helped steal it right did he then he should be charged for that but he shouldn't be charged for the dissemination or obtaining it <hes> because that's what journalists do whether whether he whether you want to call him a legit journalist or not that's not defined by the law you'd have to do that and now we're parsing things that could set precedents <hes> <hes>. I think that you know if you if you help steal the the shit. If you hack the shit then you should be charged it was the Russians hacked and they were charged if you receive it and disseminate it if muller mugune comes in to your Ecuadorian Cat Chamber and hand you a thumb drive with a bunch of hacky females on it if you receive it and disseminate that actually shouldn't be illegal it treads a little bit on the First Amendment and I not for that <music> so I'm I'm okay with this dismissal. Yeah me too totally all right well that was easy arguments from the peanut gallery. I think there is something to be further looked into in litigated <hes> because it's like it's still something still doesn't sit right though right that like wikileaks could walk away for that entire situation squeaky-clean but it might just be the case that that's how it has to be for us to uphold First Amendment Rights Yeah agreed. We have to really protect host so do they have like <hes> like a wikipedia style donation thing on their page because people could boycott that you need some kind of consequence consequences if it works the same way otherwise we would just go in and I'll change the pages and money. It's free speech same argument Ron Paul Offspring just keeping that sign alive libertarian funded one hundred percent gosh all right guys. It's time for a social media call to action all right so an OP ED in Washington Post. This Week is making Turtle Dick Mitch Super Sad and the story says Mitch is standing by trump up in refusing to lift a finger to defend against Russian election interference in two thousand twenty because trump can make or break any other legislation Mitch Might WanNa Pass. He doesn't seem to want to bring anything to the floor for a vote these days the Washington Post article didn't even mention the two point five million dollars McConnell accepted from lend Levada Nick nor did they mention <hes> his Deripaska reach around when he voted to lift sanctions on the oligarch so he could get a giant Russian aluminum plant in his home state and no homosexual shaming on the reach around. That's just a friendly gift a- anyone can reach around. Yes exactly thank you. I just wanted to combination yeah those emails though not not a homophobic comment just a favor <hes> but regardless of those things not being being mentioned in Wapo trump called the Washington Post a Russian asset and this is a signal to me that someone is leaked some of the F._B._i.. Counter intelligence findings to trump saying he's an asset because his M._o.. Is that once he finds out he does something wrong. He accuses his opponent of doing the same thing. Yeah can't spill asset without mass asked hat Russian asset and morning Joe Morning Joe Joe Scarborough <hes> has coined the term Moscow Mitch and according to The Washington Post and now it's trending on twitter so please had to social media and keep Hashtag Moscow Mitch on the Charts I love that we should like do a little experiment and try to get a bill bill. That's pro Russia on the floor and C Mitchell vote for that like Russia is awesome bill. Go yes this is we are putting the bill forward that says we need to hand the overall of our internal polling data to the Kremlin. Oh yeah that's so curious about what she's a little test bill yeah yeah he'll be tempted. You know he will really sweaty betty. Yeah holy crap all right guys. We'll be right back in one second. Thanks for listening to the daily beans the new morning news podcast with swears if you sign up and become a patron and not only will you get ad free episodes are newsletter and research notes presale tickets for live shows patronage for our other podcasts muller she wrote and access to our private social media community but you also get the daily beans the night before it's released to the public plus your contribution goes towards health benefits for our staff that is until we elected Democrat and realize Medicare for all. Thanks again for listening and please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts daily be live lover. She wrote Hey. Hey guys welcome back. It's a g hear everyone's left <hes> we've finished watching the debates and I just have a couple of things I wanNA talk about really quickly first of all <hes> <hes> C._N._N.. Shouldn't do debates anymore. <hes> I really didn't like the way that they structured it. I didn't like their questions. Their questions were G._O._P.. Talking points for the for the most part <hes> you know for example when <hes> they were asking about whether they want you know. Did you want to decriminalize the border. You voted to decriminalize the border or whether they were asking people who wanted Medicare for all will you you know how do you feel about throwing <hes> union workers off their health insurance and it was just really <hes> contentious. I think they were trying to start fights. I don't appreciate it. I prefer <hes> the M._S._N._B._C. Format not much better and I think it went on a little bit too long. But of course there are ten candidates. It's hard to judge. I think there were two clear winners tonight. I think Buddha Judge Warren I thought Warren was going to run away with it. Buddha judge was really really amazing tonight as well <hes> so I'm just going to go through here. <hes> my quick ideas about each of the candidates that were on stage tonight I there was bullock. Oh look <hes> and there's no sex pistols. Album called never mind the bullocks and I think we can do that here. I think he's gone <hes> he got no applause after his closing statement sort sort of a centrist <hes>. I don't think he's going anywhere after this Marianne Williamson dark horse of the night super surprising Sherpur big lines were no walk hawkiness radical truth telling governing philosophy love wins <hes> we have to look at the causes and not the symptom she wants to talk about moral leadership. She's the one who can beat trump with that kind of <hes> philosophical leadership <hes> love governance situation and it was awesome to listen to her talk. I'm going to miss her. She did get applause has <hes> for her <hes> closing statements and she did get some wild applause when she started talking about <hes> environmental racism and how things like the Flint Water Crisis Listen <hes> climate change you know more like impact communities of color and disadvantaged communities more than they do the rest of us. She talked about how where she he grew up. In Grosse Pointe they would have never the flint water crisis would have never have happened there and that's just something that got a ton Bad with questions about race and racial racial issues in the country <hes> I think she'll stick around a little bit longer than the others. Marianne Williamson might hang out for a minute to because she did she did is really well tonight. But I think Delaney Tim Ryan Hickenlooper bullock or Gone Club. I think might stick around for a little bit but like I said she's still having a really hard time. <hes> <hes> answering questions about <hes> the racial injustices <hes> in America and that's probably going to be one of the major things that <unk> <hes> the twenty twenty campaign is about a bed. Oh did well but I wish he was running for Senate. I have big hopes for him but I think he's better for Texas than he would be for America so he he actually got a little applause on his closing statement there was there was silence for for quite a few of them. A Buddha judge like I said tied for the win knows zingers but he had some amazing <unk> moments first of all his moment on structural changes like making Washington D._C.. Estate giving them statehood so they can have proper representation in Congress and talking about restructuring the Supreme Court art so it's not political I think what he wants to do is add seats to it <hes> to be more representative of of the populace because it's been at nine seats for an our population has grown. I can't can't remember the numbers but it's crazy. We should have more people on the Supreme Court <hes> so I really like his structural ideas there to enter a lot of the problems in the country he's still having issues with the racial divides but he answered those questions much better this time than he did last time and but hit his moment was his address to Republicans in Congress risk it was so great he just looked at the camera and he said I have it right here. I wrote it down one second. He said <hes> he looked right in the camera when the sun sets on your career and they're writing your story the thing you'll be remembered for is whether in this moment with this president you found the courage to stand up to him or whether you continued to put party over country he got wild applause for that. It was a great line. It was a great moment for him <hes> so I appreciated that and then moving on to Warren Winner <hes> I think Lee tied for the winter she had plans she had details. She got interrupted a lot but I think it's because her plans are very comprehensive and she just didn't have the time with nine other people on stage to go through them or with the time restriction so hopefully in the next debate. She'll have a little more time. <hes> she had the line of the night I thought when she just jumped right in and off the top of her head said I don't understand why anybody goes through all the trouble running for president of the United States just to talk about what we really can't do and what we shouldn't fight for and that was great. She got the applause of the night line in the night. It was fantastic. She got a good closing statement. She got big applause for it and and finally <hes> Bernie Sanders who was solid is angry and he was energized. <hes> he's on message. He hasn't changed his messaging. Since the sixties <hes> he had a good closing statement <hes> he got a lot of applause in multiple appro applause breaks in his closing statement so it feels like if I were just going by audience applause that M- that maybe baby sanders won the night but I really think that the <hes> the to look out for here we're Buddha judge and Warren <hes> I might put him in a three away tie but I just think he was kind of repetitive. Although Warren repeated herself <hes> one or two times as well but for for good reason <hes> there was one one really funny moment I think he was talking to Tim rhianna bullock or one of the one of the Republicans on stage when he threw his hands up and whoever was arguing with him. I'm just going to throw your hands up. He goes yeah do it again and he threw his hands up. Everybody laughed. It was really funny. <hes> Warren might have made a tiny mistake that might have put her down a notch. She would have been the clear winner I think if she hadn't yelled at the audience <hes> she at some point she was trying to finish an answer about a personal story about a father of <hes> in a family who had <hes> L._S. and how they were struggling with pain your health care bills and they let's cut her off and ask a different question or ask another personal question. She responded to it and then I want to go back to talking about Eddie and the audience laughed and she got really mad at him and this isn't funny and I was like Whoa <hes> but you know I mean not me you know maybe that shows her fighting spirit spirit or her ability to be tough <hes> because I know the you know a lot of people with optics about <hes> you know can't a woman. Can we elect a woman president we did by the way twenty sixteen by several million votes but you know sometimes they gotta go out of their way to to prove that they're that they're tough but then of of course you have to walk that fine line as a women because you can be perceived as <hes> Schill or Bossier bitchy or whatever the fuck. I don't know it's it's terrible that we even have to have have those discussions at all. I don't think that we should <hes> can they shouldn't be considerations but anyway that is kind of blue little wrap up of my of the debates but I really don't like the way C._n._N.'s handling. I'm not looking forward to tomorrow night. I will watch it but I just don't like the way that they're posing the questions they seem. I don't know like they're trying to like. They're trying to pick fights between candidates and they're using G._O._p.. Talking points and we don't need that and <hes> you know warn brought that up on several occasions. Why are we even using G._O._P.? Talking points so I think you'll see that a lot when you watch the debate coverage but anyway <hes> that's my thoughts before even watched any any of the analysis on it. Those are just what I'm thinking so guys. I'M GONNA sign off right now. We're going to get to the wrap up of the show and I will see later all right guys. That's our show. How do you feel I feel good yeah? It was a nice day wasn't too bad. I thought it was going to be crazy. Tuesday Newsday there wasn't much it was just like wall-to-wall debate coverage emerge so we're able to <hes> pick out some of the other stories we thought would be important to you and bring them to you so thanks for that. Julia said that <hes> that's a really interesting. <hes> case that we're going to watch in Oklahoma and Oh yeah Jordan. Thanks for that that PROPUBLICA wow. I can't believe they uncovered that yeah. I'm sure it's asking every state. That's the other part of that stories. It's like being covered in Illinois that probably happening everywhere yeah that was still in there was already how many like over forty cases between January twenty eighteen and now crazy all right so <hes> vote blue and we won't have these issues to even worry about guys you have any final thoughts <hes> oh I have a correction from yesterday they <hes> about the Gilroy shooting the only found one shooter so far there was actually no confirmation of shooter yes so it's just one guy who actually might be a white supremacist because is there was a social media account that posted that seems to be on his behalf but I think it was posted after he died with people like freaked out about what that was about but <hes> yeah could be very the surprising if he was it was just a very all right message and yeah so that's just your typical. I guess <music> suspect now. It seems like an thanks for that correction. Yes sorry to have a sad note but yeah debate days are fun. They're getting the air yeah curious to see how much control stuff comes up down. It'd be interesting tonight on stage for sure tomorrow too right yeah. That's usually something they bring up on both nights but yeah I'm I'm looking forward to it and we'll be live tweeting it from at daily beans pod so check that out <hes> you actually probably aren't going to hear this time in fact the next one but guess what I did and if you WanNa go back and read them Kubo all right guys. Please take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. I been a G. I Binge Lisa Johnson. I've enjoyed and coburn learn. Them's the beans the daily beans produced by A._G.. Featuring to Lisa Johnson and Jordan Coburn and

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