Podcast Fundamentals Changing #273
A Good morning everyone and welcome to the new media. Show my name is Todd Cochran Curse someone welcoming Co host Mr Rob Greenlee to the warring rob. How are you a new terrific todd? It's great to be Becker the during the show and as I mentioned before Before we got going here I'm just I'm I'm feeling a little punky. I duNNo. I told you I had a little heartburn going on so I'm not having a heart attack so those that may ask but it's just the natural ebbs and flows of being human. I guess I think so. Maybe being old two older yeah. We'll battlefield that old though thought. Yeah feel like you know twenty five year old ready to get going yeah. I woke up about two thirty. Like Oh my God I need tomes and you'd have to go to the bathroom. I needed. Toms was kind of. Oh my goodness that. Anyway yeah it the ruminations of stupid pod. Yes Oh several welcome to the show. Oh thanks for being here and I you know rob. It's almost like I don't know where to start. There's some stuff that I just want to continue to talk about but the Anita's going to get tired of right that You know it is what it is so You're in a new background. Let's let's start with you where you at. I'm I met my dad's house okay. Bellevue and I'm in-between going places. So I figured I'd I'd I'd hang out with my dad for a few days all all right. You know we need to learn to get your head. Like three quarters of the way in the frame see if you sit up in the US full ten year six ten or whatever you are seven feet tall height you know you can get that. Get that draft. Look but you're good on just the draft. Look there you go. Yeah Yeah Kennedy you know raise yourself up. Yes Rick says why are you so dark. Rob Looks like you have the old Tom Snyder tomorrow. Show thing going well it was. It's just a dark background all right well of definitely we. We got a green screen back there. We could put you in Sunny Honolulu Lulu or something connections. Go almost key that at black. If we had time to have a little fun I would do that. Right here. On the track castaway Cay it and we would put something behind you bet That'd be awesome awesome. I love to be in Hawaii or something. Yeah so Let's you know I just I mean honestly the last last week was just businesswise. I'll slammed I mean. I went home every night and just face planted spend. It's busy. Things are very busy. Yeah there's as usual todd that this is our normal conversation. Every week. Our Week was busy in the podcasting That's true there is a lot a lot of events going on. I know I'm just buried in in planning events trying to to to to meetings and trying to you know get deals done and also immune system I you know. It's it's a great time for the medium right right just the fact that we're so busy is a good sign for the medium. I mean both view and I That there's a lot of good stuff happening in. I think two is that if were in on I think we all have raw compete for some of the same business business but at the same time it's It's nice to see all come in. You know it's just it's nice to see people were talking a lot of people. I'm talking to you too. I mean literally early all across the country and sometimes in other countries as well and that's actually happening more and more to I mean there's more events going on on around the around the World Asia's getting of all I. I think I saw some podcast awards coming out of was China or no Japan the the Japan podcast awards. Todd you have another competiting antastic so in the Japanese market is is unique in itself offend right and I don't know that much about it but just knowing Japanese culture It's definitely different. A different type of podcasts. Yeah it is different outside of the. US I mean. I I would agree with you todd in a being up in Canada and then talking to people in Europe and Australia Lianne stuff. There's a there's a much stronger emphasis towards high end high quality productions and I think that just comes out of the the media culture in those countries as well which tends to be very very high quality storytelling journalistic type type content. And that seems to be the the emphasis that everybody thinks is a quality. podcasts is this distorted telling journalistic format. We'll multi-track kinda productions and things like that. And I guess what I'm trying to encourage you know when I'm looking at doing. Events abroad is trying to encourage more of the INDIE producer side. Not Now the highly produced side died so and say that individual. podcast like what we do here. Todd can't be high-quality production it. Just it's not the standard stuff that you would hear on the BBC or on CBC or some some of these more public major. The radio broadcasting companies would typically produce neon. I think two is any community is not as strong in some countries and exactly xactly. Yeah so and I think it's just a matter of In some cultures around the world like you said in in Japan to it's just it doesn't necessarily fit with the a culture that you know an individual would climb and do something on their own It just it but I think that's trying to change you know I'm hearing more Around the world in other countries there's more indie producers starting to start up so do the question is is the podcasting space by the Malays Melis turning to transform even here in the United States. Well what do you think it's transforming to hear here in the US. And I think that's been a little bit of a Controversy over the last couple of weeks I think if you see some of the discussions online Around the the separation. And the you know the professionalization I guess is potentially causing a split in the industry and I just wonder about that. I mean Todd. What are you hearing about stuff like? Yeah well you know I. You had took exception to some venture capitalist tweet Romania. We can talk a little bit about that because you took it one way. I I took it another and but you know it's almost as if these conversations are going on behind it was not even real behind the scenes as public is just an following the right the right streams of data and people are talking about. Hey it's time to come in here and take this over and in Oh and start to dominate it and bring in money and a lot of any podcasters have been worried about that for a while. I don't think it necessarily the changes independent podcast creators here in the United States. Because that's ninety five percent of the market so I don't think we have anything to worry about but it does. It just goes again you know and I hate to harp on this but it goes back to this this thought processes are we going to have bore gatekeepers showing up and trying to you know own own a piece of the medium right right and worn one more thing if they throw a bunch of money at it that they can capture Some market potential in the future. Were you know my worry. And I think Mike Post on on on facebook if if some people listening the saw that is it. Is it really really the fear around the growth and development of our a proprietary platforms and ones that aren't open or based on open standards and I think that's our dust. Both of you is worry. I think as we talk about This topic is the medium because more professionalized does that mean that we start giving ups some of the openness that has been you know available to us via open ourselves. And and I I do worry that this whole privacy. Discussion is going to push us down down a path towards more proprietary platforms. Just because of the opt-in well and I I think that As the only vice are really happened. podcasters out there that is someone comes with a check. Make sure it's a big check and make sure that you have a lawyer review your contract to make sure that you maintain ownership of your show and You know if you take the money go big and go you know and cash it quickly. I'm not against you know if someone's coming in with some ideas WanNa do some things but We'll we'll see what they do. It's you know I think that the independent streak though as trying to explain to our you know we had some discussion. I got a new marketing director Blueberry and I was explaining to him the mindset at least what I think is the mindset of most podcasters. Is that okay so here. We're doing this show. We work for our respective companies but in essence we are the. GM's of this show where the Jenner managers and we are the talent excellent and we are the producers and whatever other stupid titles who want to come up with the we wear one hat and unlike a a traditional media company where there is someone that says to a piece to a talent. I shouldn't say piece of talent because it almost that's how they treat some people sometimes but anyway at talent at a radio station they say. Hey you gotta run this erectile dysfunction ad and we don't care if you like it or not and You're you're GONNA have to kind of Do some sort of endorsement on this. And you know. Maybe that person doesn't want to do that. But they have to because they're the talent and they've been told what to do by their boss whereas podcasting we all know that no one can tell us to do anything unless we want to Unless you're signed into a network and then you have to take whatever they shoved down your throat so and the whole privacy thing I'm can I'm starting to feel will maybe I'm on the wrong side of this because more and more and more people are saying we don't care. We don't care air that our listeners are being tracked and it you know and I don't want to be and I'm jostling are jesting here a little bit but when you hear podcasts and and reporters in the podcasting space saying this is no big deal. This is not a problem you can be you know. our listener data can be attributed. There's nothing illegal with that and I think it's all about the interpretation and what lawyer talked to and and some people don't care air. Some people do not care that they're busters are being spied a pool of his true that that if you've opted in to being contract on off of websites and stuff people I think readily just click the accept button if they want to get to content on our website or her river. I think it's a common thing that people are doing now and But the attitude some podcasters is that hey People know they're being tracked they. I should just assume the contract and podcast right now. That's the attitude and but then but then todd we have to face the reality that the EU and California are passing laws that are putting restrictions on this stuff too. Well they they. They don't care about California they sell. That doesn't apply. Oh you know this. Ip Tracking and stuff and attribution doesn't apply to this EPA and. Okay until someone gets pissed off and files a lawsuit right. That's was gonNA take. I don't know if I talked about on the last show but again I don't harp on this because maybe people get sick me talking about got it but let's say you're I'll be TQ plus and you haven't come out yet. Let's say that you're listening to Lgbtq show and then there's an ad on that show that is attributed to you and then they know in that advertiser now knows that you listen to LGBTQ contacting you should be marketed as such A. You're not out and all of a sudden you start getting gene mailings to your home address with your family that maybe you know in all of a sudden you're running into this crisis situation. I that's that's an extreme you know but what if it's a it's a sub eighteen but if it's a you know someone that's not an adult you know how do they i. It's it's a little bit creepy to me and there's true ramblings a slippery slope is what it is. I agree with few talk or or let's say you know. We're such a political divide in the country right now. Let's say you're listening to ultra conservative shows and then you are then labeled as ultra conservative and then you get ready to go for a job and that business business season your whatever intelligence. They used to collect information about employees. All of a sudden they find out. Oh my God this this. I is not gonNa fit our culture because we're left leaning or as a vice versa. Were right. Leaning you know could be either way and and could could I mean if you even extend it out. Cou could an employer get access to a list of keyword searches a employee. Does you know on Google so again you know which is a whole nother can worms. If we don't know where the data that's being collected is being sold to right if there's if it's just if if there's a statement that says we're not selling this information. Oh maybe I feel a little better about that until it's explicitly said we're not selling in sharing You know and you know just as an aside this week we are. I am now going to be executing an a licensing agreement with a third party. Measurement Company I just made that decision. We went through the legal work. We've looked at all the documents and you know internally blueberries GonNa go out and if you so decide that you want to opt in for your listeners. That's GonNa be your choice that we're going to blanket protect our customers and say no. We don't as a company. We don't agree to this and you as a podcast or want to do that and you you will have to opt in if you know you can opt in yet. People are saying pooh-poohing saying Oh it's tells the rest of the story we'll go do your own work in go. Do Your own investigation go. Do ask your own questions. Why do I have to be there so every time you so the the you know? We make an announcement. That'll that's going down to reassure our customers that were worried about it any no. Oh my customers. So far saying yes at a call from a lady that was on another platform and they're air specifically moving off because the platform could not give them assurances that they were. CPA or GDP compliant and they asked the question. Okay are you and they said yes I said okay. Let's your policy documents see. Maybe couldn't provide nothing so it was. It was lip service US and when they got asked deeper about that the company couldn't come up with the with the goods and and so now you know they're leaving because of that and I'm not saying that you most the host. I think are pretty good. I think most of them are out there and have Have a CPA compliancy. Doc Me and all that stuff I think you know. Think they're MO- some some are fine but there's a lot that just say they are and aren't necessarily you know are you sexist watching or you guys getting sick of talking talking about this you listening you tired of it. If you are. Please tell us. We'll see we'll stop talking about it. They just get the feeling there's a there's a percentage of audience a sick of it. They don't WanNa hear it you know they'd rather not know. Yeah I think I mean a lot of podcasters. CASTORS are probably more concerned about now growing audience than privacy concerns and they. They're interested in making more revenue from their from their their efforts and the podcasting space and and if attribution and tracking and and all the stuff can can potentially generate. You know more revenue for some of these. PODCASTS are probably not as concerned about it They're not that's probably the truth. And the reality of a certain percentage podcasters calstrs. There's a new company that just made announcement yesterday. Let me see I can find it. Where did I dump this? It's like channel or did I put it. It was some. It was on some news release. That came out talked about a company that that's their thing. That's that's how they're going to do business they're going to be. They publicly. Said we're doing in. This is something new we're going to do attribution and the heck did I dump that. I'm looking for it here. I find it though. I don't think that we're on the wrong side. Hi To this issue. I just think that maybe Maybe maybe the world has moved beyond being worried about tracking you know. That's I still think that we are taking the right position on this but maybe they're just enough people out there that just don't care anymore because they figure the being tracked everywhere else awesome their lives on their mobile phones and stuff. The you know. What's what's one more place in right here? It is You know notes out this. Oh it's horrible I I had this maybe I linked it and the other I knew I put it the secret slack channel. Yeah I can't find it but he was in the news yesterday yesterday. You know it came out as you know as basically company says this is the Deleo this what you have to. You know. This is what we're going to be doing and It was in one of the newsletters. One is three or four newsletters wiki now getting reimbursed it. They're just starting out there. They're going to do advertising attribution as part of their model to sell advertising the podcast so you know so I saw that The Endeavor Audio folks. That's who it was. I laid off of Renault. Yeah they laid off all their. You're advertising sales team in journal accompanying some my assumption. What that means is that they opted into working with a third party company to do all their ad sales which is probably a more probably a less risky direction to go for the Charlotte achieve caught aside side right much cheaper to right and I guess there was a podcast event that happened and in France Paris France the European radio show? Yeah pod village The I guess James Cridland was there and so I mean more and more these events popping up in other places around the world and it's good to see. Yeah that's the first. I event that I've heard about in Paris. But as you can see us a European radio show so you know you look at Europe and you look at the other countries. And they're still very heavily focused on radio. podcasting is just kind of like something new still to to a lot of these markets it's You know it's I don't know how big it's going to get in the future but it does seem to be growing and there's more interesting you know. I Know James was saying that there was good. Turn turn out. They had panels and discussions on podcasting and stuff at these at this event and so this is a sign of what's happening cell. Here's the Arctic on. They WANNA think Tom Webster in Pittsburgh for dropping it in here and Rick says going back. The privacy thing wouldn't be a stretch to buy personal info based on listener data. He says in Rick Goes Honesty. Just because it's shrugged off. Accident accepted by podcasters. The public czar doesn't make it any less disconcerting getting so here's what Intercom said and again. I have to read between the lines here because I don't know exactly what they're going to be doing but they said Intercom leading media The an entertainment company and one of the two largest radio broadcaster. United States Claritin is a data driven marketing company that helps marketers find their best prospects improved marketing execution. Deliver Sapir R. Y.. Announced A partnership deliver effective marketing campaign measurement capability for PODCASTS and streaming audio. This collaboration Sean. They will advertisers to measure attribution and actually determine the portions of their campaign that contributed to a purchase store visit or APP download. uh-huh they say podcasting is a critical exciting business segment with exponential growth. Opportunity said CAN ELENA Executive Vice President of digital sales entercom. We're thrilled apart with claritin integrate their measurement technology capabilities into our existing radio and digital audio attribution suite. These new tools help us spill critical gap and is restrained lousy us the ability to offer clients opportunity to accurately measure R Y for podcasts and other digital campaigns. Going on here working with Entercom Ozzie. Game Changer for Curtis one of the big goals to offer our clients new and effective measurement attribution models. Del Truly calculate. Roi Said Matt during Lower Vice President Business Development with podcasting taking off so aggressively and continue growth across all digital channels. We Syria partnership with air. 'cause major she blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and through strategic act consists of cadence thirteen and Pineapple Street media and our congressmen and one of the top one of the country's top three podcasters leading creators distributors and sellers top-rated podcast gotten. So what is clarity's doing so you have to go and look at collaborative hilarious capabilities in there is all kinds of little as supporting documentations talking about capabilities and optimization of target so so the game changing and maybe we're too old robbie were thinking l.. May We need to get in this attribution game. It's GonNa Bring in some more dollars right. I don't know is it. I guess does interesting interesting question. I mean does it mean that the purse strings that these big brands is going to open up. Does it mean. CPM'S ARE GONNA go up you know. And are any of the the APPS you know pocket cass or anything I mean I mean GonNa supported got it right often. Should the there is no. Why should there is again? Rob There is no opt in there doing this now. How how often so? That's that's let's be clear right so this is happening today. Not just with this new announcement by by intercom and cleridas. This is happening today with other podcasts. Measurement companies who are doing attribution data for podcast AD campaigns. Ain't does it go beyond that. I don't know yeah I would hope not. It's it's it's a slippery slope you know we can. We can go a long ways in this area around user data. There's yeah where. Where does it will want? I've got a team member that's worked in New York for thirty years. He's you know he used to be a group N One of their companies. And you know he's he knows all about this. You know and having. I've talked in detail about that. I've I've been in meetings before I've sat down like but your Ip until may ip and they put punch it into their system and guess what here's resist profile and And a name and been in demos in New York City and seeing that so when people tell me that Ip data's not pursue denial. I I laugh because it it absolutely. Okay they say it's not I had seen otherwise he thought I think I'm frozen. You'll oh hear me I can hear you but your face is frozen Darla. Look you've got this kind of sad look to. It's kind of the topic. Everyone is on the video stream while rob his dialing out. Oh my God it's funny. Let me take a screen capture here of that. Osu they missed it. I much rather uh-huh prefer the smile on here. Todd there you go. That was hilarious. Dude which better. Yeah it's much better because he's had this almost like four Lorne puppy dog. Oh Man I have to. I'll have to go back and use that for the screen cap for the B.. Ch uh-huh oh we were really. We talked about it a pressing on the show this week it is depressing. It sucks us. What what else is what else is in the news right? I know we don't want to talk about this anymore. Oh man now it's it's just you know it's it's part of the changing landscape. I think you know it's it's. It's been around banner advertising and other forms of advertising for a long time so I guess it's not surprising realtors. There's pressure in this area to to to do this kind of stuff so I love to hear Tom Way on this. If you're here Tom. What do you think about advertising attribution and the slippery slope? They could be contained from there forward. You know what. But what's your thoughts you know. Are we too old goats and we need dislike to get with the program and be you know be be a corporate shells and just chased the money. I guess I mean if they're I don't know todd this is this has been an issue in the in the digital media. Space is as long as I. I can remember harassing not. No no not not specifically with podcasting though I think some people were doing it and and Some people didn't know they were doing it. I think as I think it's been around the podcasting space for a long time. It's just did everybody know that it was going on right well and another thing too. Is I think that You know we've moved beyond. There's no more to here's one thing that the IV did saw not being asked stupid stats questions anymore. There's not these you know. So we've gotten here's a credit. Here's the funny part. We've gotten beyond the accuracy. See Question you know that. That's not even being asked anymore So doesn't Blueberry said Cook in my browser yes we do. But we don't take that data and we use that for helping you stay in our system but we're not tracking you. It's not the this is not what we're talking about. A UH so but there is a form of tracking their true. That's true right. I mean we do track a certain level of AH Listener data right on all of our platforms per the AB stuff. You know but it's it's not personally attributable now or Bursa purchases and and more personal information. That's time difference time and also blocked the cookies at Blueberry and who have to log in every time he comes the website he won't be able to log into the Dash. He won't be automatically logged into the dashboard. So he you know he he can block cookies. He's got that option. And some people pretty aggressive with that on browsers these days right but I don't mind. Cookie doesn't go to twenty five different locations nations this semantics. But you're opting you. Are you have the ability to do that. Listeners don't have the ability to block anything So maybe is it semantics so you follow this this this discussion. That happened It was what last week late last week. Whatever about apple versus fire? Did we talk about that. Actually tell show last week. Okay Yeah Okay while we won't have go without again so tom says this is true. Rick says the difference with a cookie is could easily be leader. Cleared out on a browser other stuff is outside of the users control. Well Tom says. Yep Tech Savvy people do sure but text non tech savvy. People don't they that's right they don't they. Don't delete cookies per se them they don't care. They're browser cash. That's true But I'm also not selling that information and I'm not tracking that person over to Amazon and I'm not tracking them when they you know if someone goes to go daddy go. Daddy's probably setting a cookie on their page. Click on an ad link that is definitely track. 'cause they send you know someone comes in there ten days later they will know that it's the same person so that is a key Aka attribution. That's true there there's a level of it a Some you know maybe just Maybe it's again. Maybe it's overreaction on my part uh well then it would be an overreaction on the part of Lipson and and others in the medium that are taking a a specific stand on this I think against those that are pushing against those that are fully embracing as adults kind of what's happening in the industry right now. There's definitely a split have at times right. He says a question what these tracking companies can actually do. The isn't block on a terms of service. That is if you have a like we're going after a licensing licensing agreement so we will have a licensing agreement third party that basically says you will not track the IP data of our hosting customers to a advertiser unless that podcasters specifically ops in ops in for the end for that in your system right and that's then that's individual podcasters choice. That's fine by default. We're not going to say I'M NOT GONNA give car blonde saying because it's not really bean and I know the process. I don't know if the podcasters always opting topping into this. You know. Don't know if they already know. And they won in one use case. I know that the podcast was asked to do this. By the actual advertiser Sir. So the advertiser would have had. I mean the podcast. There would have had to agree. So the PODCAST or innocence has given permission. I mission for his listeners to be attributed back to the the company do any advertising. So it's you know it's up to that individual podcast. I'm cool with that. They WANNA WANNA do that. That's fine. That's their choice. It's their show right so he thought did you see this This new technology that came out of or actually was announced in Paris to Celeste Air. So called pod. Install the I've played with it for two or three folks plane with an it's really. It's doesn't really work good on IOS. It's it's more of an android. Okay you know we. I tried to get it work on IOS. Unless I couldn't get to work in. Irs and one of the guys finally got to work on android. It's an interesting concept for sure and there's more of this type of stuff going on so it's you know it's a you know has potential is probably based on a on a browser is. Yeah yeah and I think Well we're GONNA see more this kind of stuff here in in the future as a APP world and the Web web browser world converge on each other. I think you know I think eventually I don't know how many years in the future we're going to have one ecosystem for all content and and APPS On our mobile devices not going to be a kind of bifurcated thing something and browsers and thumbs. Something's and APPs think it's going to be a one one and I'm not sure. What the implications of that is todd for owning your brand like you've been saying or owning Maybe all of us wind up getting our own APPs of sorts that The does all the same things that a website does as well as a as an APP you know like a like a native app I think to certain shows will have a number of people in their audience. It will WANNA use a native APP but these I could have potentially all the same capabilities a native up here. They would be browser. Based I think at this point it's in if it's available a you'd goes back to that Adage ed been saying for years. I don't care how they listen long as they listen if they get it this way it's cool. I don't be honest with you. Yeah so you know it follows everything I think is good in pod gassing you know the more opportunities we get people to listen or find their content or if you've got sure or link to it or something like that right I mean in some ways this same model that Google podcast is trying to go after right. It's not really a first party native APP it is kind of almost. It's almost a duplicate eight. I actually thought was duplicating. What Yeah Yeah? But I think Google's thinking towards the future right of how we're going to get access to this content and it's not going to be this you know going to a website or going to a mobile APP it's GonNa be just one thing on your allies. There's a lot of people today that don't ever go to a website. They go to spotify or they go to pocket cast snacks really get their podcast and right so I would imagine like a wordpress eventually will just you know is moving this direction for years with you know like having a little bit of A. It's had a little bit of a different kind of web experience when you pull it up in a web browser versus like on a desktop experience I think it you know. Oh I think those worlds are going to collide even more well everything. We're designing now as mobile first right and you know so you know anyone that season as long as any of our pages anything that we built recently it's all going to in a mobile. It's mobile optimized. I A desktop second. So that's that you have to. If you don't do that now you're gonNA get ya. It's almost like you're you're ranking in Google Dot COM is gonNA drop to an in in more and more you have to be on a secure server with your media file links in your and this is another one will sings it kind of pushes out in A. I think the days of kind of self hosting are kind of coming to a close. I don't know I mean yeah well I mean it feels like that the requirements of Google stuff like that. Are you know a requiring secure servers and I mean more technical capabilities than than AH typical self host house. And I know that there's several out there like even even the. CDC hosts all their podcasts on their own servers. And and they they they track PODCASTS MOM by hits so you start thinking about you know those was that are out there using their own servers to host the stuff And they're not using a back end tools like barrier Lipson or ills that are fully embracing I e B v Two and and. They're trying to track their their downloads. Based on just raw server locked files. Aw Now they're. They're living in disadvantaged situation when it comes to add sells well. Maybe their goal isn't to do ad. Sales me was just eleven. Well it isn't exactly right like the. CDC doesn't care about advertising right so but but you would think they would care about you know accurate measurement of their audience. Yeah we get a lot of people that move largely because they want to know the accuracy they have to provide reporting back to their you. You know they're spending money right. So you know the companies are the groups organsations WanNa know what you know what. The numbers are matter of fact bathe. If it could it'd be a you know like we've seen taught it could be you know those hits or pretty high hits that's that's thus the measurement terminology that I'm hearing well broadcasting either. They got a big shock coming. I know exactly. Let's try and tell him I said well you can probably maybe maybe take that number down like eighty percent eighty at eighty eighty five and you may get close to what your real audiences when you tell them that. They don't like to hear that though they don't because I mean if they're producing podcasts and they're they're single I get you know get millions of hits you know that sounds pretty good due to the the bosses upstairs. I have a chart when someone calls me and says we're moving from here to here and I said well you're GONNA go down X. percent I just I tell I tell them straight up as well. I hate to tell you this. You're going to be in for a little sticker shock. And they're like why's that I'm like I think well I just can't go into the data too much but you know I go into. IB certificated complaint Blah Blah Blah Blah. You know thirty seconds you know pitch and then I'm like they're not and we know what the numbers are we've done aby and You numbers are GonNa drop this much and that way at least east then when we moved them this is visual shared in your email and my support guys are not getting what does happen and I show uh-huh right. Yeah yeah he had a rick. Hit counts are so two thousand four right right because when we were so high todd. I'm excited well rob the I. I went back and looked at the script we were. We're using in two thousand four two thousand five before we built anything and it was done by hose one of the tech. podcast guys Oh who built that script. It would Parson. Apache logged foul I apologize if he's out there and listening being You know but when I went and looked at that it was purely a hit counter. You know there was you know and I thought that's what we all have it. And when I when I thought I've told the story of like thinking ahead forty five thousand listeners and you know and it was really really excited and it was. There's probably five thousand you know but that was the only count we had at the time and we were really just. There's no filtering it and there was no BAA. Looks you know so actually i. It reminds me of the conversation when I when we formed blueberry and I ended his coat over to Ngelo he says this is this is crap you know he says it. This is where the whole conversation started about. You Got Botts in there you right now. It's like you know Sorry your interest basically say sticker shock. But he's in for some sticker shock. You know I really wonder if the podcasting medium would've taken office fast if if we would've actually had accurate measurement right and we think a lot of people got really excited by the way high numbers and we didn't know any better than we were billing. Those I numbers and what was shocking. was people were happy with those numbers and it was is like eighty five percent inflated. You know right right. Oh we had like I said if we had the numbers we have now now back in two thousand five thinking about thinking of our shows put ahead like two hundred listeners. Right whatever was doc. So Oh yeah so and I think we were measuring and of course we didn't have that we didn't get that tool out anybody so I was measuring injuring. Probably for law. Nine months maybe nine nine to twelve months using that tool to report back act two to go daddy citrus gotomeeting. All those early ad deals. That was the those. Are the how we were reporting. The guys were running them on their own servers. They were sending me the report log. You know I wasn't even pulling their log data at the time you know. They were running themselves soon. The same thing house pulling Bulbul server logs myself and discounting county hits. I think it was. I think it was Google analytics. I think was around back. uh-huh yeah aren't we I wasn't you know it was probably. I don't think Google leaks was round yet but I think we were using. Oh it was one of of those snap INS and she can put on a inside of those stats saying she can run on any will like a plug in on the on wordpress or something blue and now with some you know if you're running servers he still available today. You can get something that is you know A kind of a web statistics the sixth thing and it's it's it's baked into most web hosting plans is not Google analytics but yeah so anyway. We weren't using those numbers but we. We're definitely using numbers. That in retrospect were not accurate in any shape or form it was. That was the wild called wild west. And here's the thing. We sold millions of dollars in ads using that measurement system and people were happy just thinking if they just think what the performance would have. Actually if we'd had real data at that time the the the the cash-registers would have just completely opened up because the performance was you know. Eighty five percent better than what it was. The the numbers were eighty five percent lower lower. So you have again going back to the original cracks here. Having in these conversations with people are like you're a little drop or sometimes and it'll be two or three percent or whatever it may be the folks that get the biggest shock the biggest sticker shock to the people come off the Say The free platform right. He taught to do that The cereal is for sale Are there there might even being bought. Isn't that the serial team that cereal's I thought they had. What's the company behind Serio? Who produced that? They thought it was a A public radio NPR. Or I think it was in Chicago right. It was just. Let's let's use google legal here who we should know this the same. I thought it was the same production company that produced This American Life. WHO produced serial? Jio podcast sears. Investing Journal podcast hosted by Sarah Coin Nary a nonfiction story of a multitude episodes the series. Craig Co Co Oh created and co produced by showing and Julia Snyder and give out by this American life. Yes and it looks like the the a possible suitors. Are The New York Times interesting cell are they. They're just GONNA buy the serio series or the cereal name and and no I. I guess it's all of the rights to it. Okay says the company behind mind the true hit True crime podcast cereals exploring sale according to a person familiar with the say. It's the biggest brand on the market as the medium becomes increasingly popular While they're really getting there and there is producing collaboration. WBZ CHICAGO COMES FROM CIRO productions with release s town in two thousand seventeen and has more projects and developments. That's what they're buying their sounds like the binding production company and the all right so I guess to Syria. Right right. Seems a little late. Then maybe the utmost in the Hopper Pos also apple will it. Looks like there's talk coming out about apple's podcasting efforts around original you'll podcasts. I guess they're gonNA GONNA do some podcasts about TV shows. You're not sure is apple going to become a the television production company. Rob were even apple. Pay attention to yes apple. TV and some of their originals channels are going to be have spinoff podcast which is very smoker. Yup Gotcha so that that's kind of by vice shows on those platforms new ever anymore. Really I buy almost all my movies on Apple. TV that's right that's right about movies or the TV shows. I don't buy TV shows. Ever so apple is actually producing TV. Shows Yeah Watch. TV shows. But I don't buy the you know how you can buy movies and stuff so okay but actually I haven't been on Apple TV yet. I've been looking at the I. I'm stuck on Netflix. Listen Amazon prime and you get pretty much what I need. Therein Hulu. Yeah his are we supposed to be what listening to podcasts. Twenty four hours a day and not watching any TV. Yes yes. You're todd so okay says Apple. Oh has been transitioned from selling other companies movies and TV shows to producing its own RONCA. So when did they start doing that do do you know well spent well apple. TV is just announced Apple TV. This real have to go look when they actually introduce it was in the fall but you know this has been a works for a long time. They've been working on you know their whole regional programming in you know get into the space for for a couple of years and trying to negotiate terms and and I don't think that went real well and you know they're now basically just trying to you know become a net flicks right and maybe not as big away. They got enough cash. Josh my God they could ensure they'll keep keep push on if that's what they're doing. Yeah so the whole podcasting effort is really really disembark brought those new shows to support the new TV shows and it was a lot of rumor going out it was basically you know they talked about their getting into podcasting Haad casting their we're GONNA do some of their own original series and a and everyone was speculating. What does that mean? Are they going to buy some shows or this. This kind of may be resolved that question. It's out there and of course then you know there's been some announcements by spotify think that signed a production company any and So I by the way. Anyone's looking for production company very now has a production company and and We're doing real well with that. So if you're network needs to production company talk to me Schilling here. So what's the the scope of that todd so when you say production copy are you coming in and just doing put other people's projects getting paid for that or are you creating your own original original stuff bird. Were doing production for It's indefinitely not an independent podcast creator. Price product some disconnect that it's someone that's that needs You know efficiency of time. It's not easy. Look at the details. It blueberry pro DOT COM and get team mm-hmm over there that is doing audio production and it's it's going. Well a matter of fact one of the team members will be with us out evolutions. Oh okay all right well. That's coming up fast here now. Was it three weeks two weeks three weeks a couple of weeks. Valentine's Day weekend. Yeah it's coming up in podcast right number two right behind it too. So yeah are we. Do we know what time have we been locked down for what we're doing it podcast. I believe it's the first first day at lunchtime are and then you had a call with the GAL for EVOLUTIONS ON PRODUCTION DO I. What do I need to bring as I? I was thinking that you might WanNa bring your your truck yesterday. Many who. I have a easy way to do that. We can go that requires not live on video. I've got something that's easier. You know like a a single camera. Yeah kind of. What kind of Webcam setup? I'll probably go a little higher than a Webcam but yeah yeah so we'll okay. What like a black magic box or something like that or something else? I've got solutions. I just need to know what to bring. So they're going to have an audio Out For us right right out of the mixer and they're going to try and put that mix close to the stage as they can't also data work work at spreader so I thought that would help in your reach with the Webcam near the camera. Just going to have to make sure I have the right connectors to be able to plug all all this in. So they find out what type of connector I need or they're using it's probably GONNA be acceler out to like like Like a mini oh check. Xl are out too. Many Jack is perfect. Right right. All right planning on the new media show today to go live productions and you're GonNa make pack a box. Sorry todd up in the air right. Yeah we are in. We've got guests that we're going to have in I celeb- book guests for podcast yet but That's that's next on my list to do and it'll be nice will be able to live and everything works outright In the bandwith holds will be able to streamer event in California Yup. That's that's the plan and if we can work it out with Dan To do it live on stage at podcast movement in Dallas. That's also on my agenda to do also podcast movement podcast movement in Dallas Speaker. Speaker submission sound that's opened right and it would be great if we could do. I think I'm GonNa Talk to any be folks and and see if we can get on on the live stage with with Annabi to do a do a new media show there too. I just talked to them last week. And the It's interesting what they've planned for us. That are exhibiting. They're going to have. I don't have you heard about this. I've been talking Harkin often onto Josh. Yeah so we're going to each. They're going to have like an hour. I'll let there's four of us. We get twenty minutes so it's right and I get our half or something and we each get twenty minutes to interview a podcast right That war from our service it's not platforms. It's not an up front. It's more of a talk about what they're doing how they're tied into some sort of business discussions to Kenny interesting and they'd interesting. We've we've never done one of those before so this is and finding someone is going to be at the show and you know getting their. Em how we think we found a Latina that's in Las Vegas. That's doing a show at can fits everything we WANNA do there. So it's interesting for for anybody. Yeah if we can get on the life stage than than people can can see what's going on there and that may be our only the opportunity to have like a panel discussion at the two right. Yeah because I don't think anything is scheduled in that podcast attract to be like Not No not this year and it's on Wednesday. The podcasting track is on Wednesday this year. The last day of the show. I think I mean look at an a b twenty twenty and that is seem right at Wednesday sound almost a second day of the show April eighteen into the twentieth. I think it's a second day. So Eighteenth April eighteenth to twenty now. What Celestica April eightieths last day? It's a Wednesday. The show starts this year. Ana Saturday How's that work again? That's really weird. Dates assure eighteenth to the twentieth exhibits will be open Sunday to Wednesday day. Okay so it is the last day of the show. Why did they do it? Why that's a really weird really really really weird exhibit dates bill or distort on a Sunday right? Yeah and that's usually the biggest day of the show so probably the biggest of the show will be mundy probably. Are they trying to get people not to go home on Friday Eddie because everyone is always be ghost town at this at that event on a Friday so is their plan. Then the slow day will be Sunday than the majority of the show. v Monday Tuesday Wednesday. It is really weird. Sunday is the new Monday okay. That's what's on Nestor. Member as on any be site while also what used to happen was is that the Orthodox Jews would have to shut their booths down on Friday. I remember correctly what they do. They celebrate the Sabbath. Is it anyway. It's it's they were always what I always saw was that there boosts would be Think you're locked up rob. Yeah Yeah. They're bruce would be cordoned off one day of the show so maybe it was on a Saturday. I can't remember And I apologize. I'm just not familiar. So they would lose one day of the show show where they're they're in dates in the they have a huge huge presence at this show. There's lots of media are Equipment companies knees that der boosts are just closed and amy. Here let me Google. That someone's probably already told me. In facebook's looks eligible Orthodox Jews celebrate Sabbath. What day that Saturday Oh no they do on Friday so Friday as Shabaab so So if a few minutes before sunset on Friday until the appearance of the three stars and scion Saturday night so yeah. It was Friday afternoon through Saturday that they are. There boost should be discharged down. Oh Yeah so interesting but Anyway that was you know always always just thought it was interesting. Walk through seat or any be and it'd be like a booth is closed and we'd be roped off and so maybe this basically allows allows to have those folks have off four days of the show. Maybe they moved it because of that. I don't know so somewhere is going on and I'm sure I'm GonNa probably do something with the EA which is the educational side of any be working with college students. So that's probably going to be a second part of what I'm GONNA do without event to also broadcast booth. It's been in the PODCASTS pavilion. That's John Did you know that was open to be booked. You could actually book in there. Yeah you can and Josh was talking about that. Ah If we wanted to do a show in there we could. Well he said to get spilled within twenty four hours once they open up the schedule he said so. I said I've never seen the schedule. So make sure you send the schedule over. We'll get the word out so that podcasters on the show and you know if they wanna use that they can. I would love to do a show in there at some point. Yeah and I guess we're North Hall to did you know that okay. Yeah booths are north all this year just bouncing all over the place. Yeah central last year and now we're in north South Hall before a been an all the halls and yet makes a pain to you. Know because you've people used to one place now you're in another so you have to reeducate everybody where you're going to be so anyway. That's what's Kinda going on there so lots of events. I'm glad anybody I'M GONNA get a little bit of a break. There's not appears to be a lot of stuff going on in March arch. So I don't know you probably know twenty-five secret events that are going on but I know that there's some stuff going out to the south. Help US South West this year around Music Ham. That going south by I know I have no plans. It's too expensive. It's just one big drunk. I think it is and it's very very hard to getting business done. They're very very very hard. Supposedly the the podcast music folks are going to be doing a lot at south by this year. I don't know what that is going to look like or what they're actually going to do all right. Well it's not happening. I don't think so again. There's you know there's a lot going on behind the scenes losses discussions going on but You know public site anything. Everyone's just head down in a turn and burn. I know that You know our team. We've we've the I've been heavy into the stopping Major major major changes coming. So I'M A. I'm actually very excited. I wish I could put it on the street tomorrow. I'll be honest with you. Can't happen fast enough now for me. The I think it gets back to helping with the whole support side right and it's making you know making the whole making things easier and all right and you. Now we're we're we're moving out of the tech time to time where detect can't be a burden in other tech has to be a barrier here too bright creating creating quality content. I agree with you. I think we're we're way past the need for that sell. It changed the happen. It's time now. Where were you're setting up a twitter account? It's got to be that easy or an instagram account. Can't be any harder than that to get people started and So we'll see we'll see what happens here and you know and there's got to be more more listening platforms come on the senior two so on a global scale so it's coming well. The question is is what's facebook doing. Now that's what I align. Now what did what did they have planned. Yeah I've I've started reaching out to them a little bit trying to figure out what might be happening over there. Yeah I don't have any news to talk about but of course but time will tell what happens in this new. I think it makes sense for for them to get involved at a deeper level at some point. You know they've been so audio video driven Little short videos ideas and stuff that pop into your stream. I Dunno you know and it's it's hard for people now to you know if I want to see something. My Mom's doing I have to click on my mom's actual after you know. Look her name up and click on her name to go to her newsbeat because that's the only way get to see what she's posted on facebook and same thing with my sister so facebook is really narrowed amount of stuff that we can see from another right so I don't know if it's you know we we we dry people two pages and groups and and of course you know we're on the media show page as well people can go over there and and like and comment and but You know I find myself doing. Mostly now. I find myself flipping between ten or fifteen groups and to see what the commentary is and then every once in a while I get lucky and see something in my news stream. That's related something. I actually say yeah. I think it's important. That thought is up just gets buried less. What happens when there's so much discussion about medium? It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on but not only that it's you know they're commercializing it. So you know every third thing and they newsfeed is a commercial marshall so I have to say pretty if some of those are pretty effective to facebook stunned good job in figuring out who who we are. Of course we're you know we're put our whole dog on life on there right and if you know at what point does facebook start to become on a favorite. But they're holding their own pretty good they are well. I don't think are we just dragon show out here at this point the IMDB of podcasting your pod chaser chaser. I guess hit three million crater credits. Why does that platform? I guess that's just hosts and in co hosts and producers and things like that have gotten listed in purchaser right. Are we even in chaser. Todd a I don't know if we are we are. We haven't submitted anything over there. So they've got this you know I've talked those folks before and I. I just haven't had the DEV cycles to integrate with their platform. So people can automatically shops up over to them. nobod- I think PODCAST podcast hosts and CO hosts can create an account out on their List the show. Yeah but we. We haven't put any of our guest in any episode data. I know I think you have to submit that okay. It lists the stuff that I've done a stream yard and the end in the new media show Scott got over episodes over there. Well does but does it list our guest. That's the part I think you have to go in an inter. All why don't you do I think so but they do have an API for that so they want people to integrate right. That's true says. Add my own show appearances break so yeah oh so you can can add your own. Two right I mean if you have an account over there you go and add all the shows that you're currently involved in right you can put a description for yourself upload an image of you And in little poll from your your podcast feed and I don't know what's their business model and they got. How do they keep? The lights hung on The advertising on the page or they may charging something see ever premium upgrade thing. I'm not seeing it labor of love. Those guys I don't know plows build it to scale and then sell it to somebody right. That's that's the usual business model time right now. The sit here shares. We are seriously couple curmudgeon. Today we're all we're just trying to just trying and to keep up with Johnson. Dorothy you know. Oh No we have a long way to go by the by the way. Did you actually listen to the the agenda show. I have listened to it. Yeah so what do you think of the whole thing though. Because it's like tune after. Yeah so you have to listen to whole thing. Now you gotTA listen to a couple of them. I know you spent some time in the car so So what was your. What was your take I I thought it was? I mean. I didn't think that their format was really that unusual. I thought it was just a conversational show just like kind of like. Oh we do right as happened to talk about topics that You know a lot of people. Don't talk about so but they definitely have a a a a revenue model for they. They they've got a tight relationship with their audience. Yeah I mean I think it's an interesting Strategy they have with their audience to to get their audience involved and engaged in donate and participate and be seen as what it producers. They have they have some folks over there that send them a thousand dollars a month. A thousand think about that that that's a serious fan. We should be able to do that right for. We just not con controversial enough done. Well we don't into a show for three hours and thirty minutes. It's going good. Well we could but you but you know here's the thing they keep the topic moving you know they boom boom boom boom boom boom bang. I don't know how many clips say play per show. They probably have forty fifty clips. They I mean th. They've put a lot of work into that show. It's a full-time all time. Jasper with their fulltime job is it is and for those having listened to it. I don't care about your politics. 'cause they're equal opportunity smashers. It's the no agenda show has supposed to be no agenda and Disco Listen to at once or twice eliciting. Any you know if you don't like it. I just listened to their methodology. And how they have built this subscriber base it's truly not subscriber donation base in every uh every show. It's you know it's like this. Some shows are more some shows as La Start with episode twelve hundred. If you'RE GONNA go back and listen to go to episode twelve hundred listened to that episode and just be blown away by the donation. Such it's A. It's a long shot. Three hours and thirty minutes is episode. Twelve hundred it's long that you know first. Donor came in with a thirteen hundred bucks or something. It's amazing soon if you don't vote donate year. Yeah you call your call to support the show. Can you imagine us calling people allow in this. Shell the donate and call them dish bags. Douchebag it will you have a reputation for now flipping people off on the show. Oh well I've always done that. No just that's demonstrated purposes of my attitude not show. I'm just teasing you so I think that You know it's pretty remarkable what they've done and I you know it's it's a very hard model to duplicate. How say that? It's you're you're going to have to really like step your game up in a big big way. I don't think solo shows can do it. I don't think a solo show can drive that type hypoth- of here's a case in point the twenty five hundred square feet that strictly behind this wall all is now available. My sister lost the tenant. That's in there and she's like do you want the space and I'm thinking Oh you know I've got great space here and new and cool stuff but what if I had an actual collaborative space next door where I could open it to creators and we could almost create like a twig type of thing you know and I thought what second to take money wise you know and I thought you know at a minimum just to build it. I'm GONNA need you know couple of your commitments by people to probably on the on the on the no probably like five grand month a minimum to build just to build build it and get an open staff it you know I might be able to do it for twenty five hundred on the cheap and then over time but you know I have to come up with a plan it. I'm going to try to get my audience to support. Then you know it's IT'S A. It's another big commitment so I kind of thought about this in my you know my talking on your new central and and then had listener came back and they said hey you know if you're serious about this tell us what you're going to do and what the plan one is and then we can decide if we wanted support is i. You know a to me. The Guy said it sounds like you're just asking for money and I thought Oh. Yeah it is it does it does. Sounds like I'm just asking for money and So should I count on listeners to a bank roll something that would would be. They may not get direct direct They're not from direct benefit prop right and editor. Yeah I said Yeah you're right. I'm being a little selfish and you know dreaming about something cool You know in any could really start something that would be interesting but again in. I'm asking my tech audience to you know. Help me fundraiser. That and then what do they get out of it. Really and You know they support this show and my my central show some donations and you know that helps paid electric bill and and writers and stuff like that so I think that You you know what Adam and Dave has done is a completely different situation. They're not looking at trying to open up greater spacer. They're looking to feed their family and stays in survive and have a non advertise based show So it is a cool model for sure those news news and you can easily copy it and be call copycat matter of fact. There's a new program. They were joking about it. It's on it's on. It's on Fox in his something something no agenda and they're like oh my God someone's using our name so if you took their model their their donation model in you replicated on your show. Is that a form of plagiarism. To do that I'll give them full credit stealing it in. I partly still stolen already a little bit of it I call it. Central Central Insider Program You know but but I don't have changed too. Yeah but I don't have nights you know in Barron's and and stuff like that. So who could I could but You know so it's you know it's it's recognizing people at different level. They don't even acknowledge knowledge. They just if someone gives fifty bucks they name and location only as the only acknowledgment they get fifty and under. Don't even get mentioned. Someone Sends Me Fifty Bucks. Hey Hey tony or sue. Thank you Sir Awesome. Yeah thanks for the fifty bucks that fifty dollars an under. It's forty nine ninety nine. You don't even you know you don't even get mentioned on the show you know trash you know. We didn't send more now they they. They acknowledge him and they thank them. And it's you know some people are doing it on a like a layaway plan to get their knighthood or some you know well it is people pay either way in two thousand dollars worth of donations to get their night ring and the NBA The knights of the Round Table. And it's that's that's a you guys laughing. This is what they do and it's very very effective. They have a ceremony and everything so did you. Did you get to hear ceremony. I I didn't listen for an e you have to listen through the donation cycle to the point where the second they have to donation segments in and they actually night people and the actual pulling of swords really. Oh Yeah yes again mute better music and everything everything and And of course Adam Curry and his fantastic vocals does just an incredible job. And it's it's also part of his personality that it drives the show too so right right right right. I think a lot of that has to do with personality. You you have to have a personality on a podcast as if you are just boring boring you know Mike. Del Did a demo for us the other day and and while it was good I kind of like a mike need a little more energy a little more energy and there's a couple of things that they did little you know he's okay record it in the second one was much better. You know so you had some sometimes. PODCAST needed get up and do some jumping jacks right right. Yeah before we started the show today I was feeling pretty pretty bad as I WANNA be here. Put a smile again. Yeah you oh you gotta motivate yourself. So are we going to be back on Saturday. The first I've ever okay all right. I leave for Columbus Monday morning and get back Friday night. We'll we'll be here. I'LL TRY AND GET MR pocket castle. That'd be awesome so I'll try and get him going for the first and it'd be cool. Cool have them heroin on the on the program. Libya cool discussion because the question I want to know is how oh are they navigating their owner relationship right their own by impure. That's right or National Public media might be the cell just curious how that relationship has been in a couple of the things I talked about rallies. He's former iheartradio too. I mean he ran the podcasting area before the current current encumbent is over so podcast must be doing okay. Financially the talk I got some some pockets behind the well or is it now we can asking asking. Yeah Yeah you can tell us Charles more than we can or opt not to his option art hard everyone. Thanks for being here if If you have some ideas on things we should cover. Let's no oh. Mike said Red Bull and Mike was listening to see said how when I talked about him. also sponsor the show. 'cause they're Lagos behind you all the time. Yeah so this is this is what we could do. You want to sponsor the show we've got. We've got some prime real estate here. Video is so Yeah whoa well. Hey we we're. We're not up against having a sponsor so you know some some sponsor we may have to charge more depending on the company really really now. Well I I don't know if we could take we could take podcasters but be frank with you. A podcast hosting companies want to sponsor. That's GONNA be expensive. It's GonNa be it's GonNa be very expensive. Okay Rob we would both be fired hired. We did a host endorse ad for company. X. Companies are. We'd both for for being. Oh my God or or both sprout. We would be the former former founder of blueberry and former vice president for deals of Lipson Nets. We both love the door Salvia podcast. That might work. You know if you want to be a sponsor of the show and then we're cheap so you come up with a nice speak. I I speak for yourself todd. Not cheap okay. Well you know considering that we've had Our rates Iraq Donator here is His given a total of fifty bucks this show and she is you know. So you know we and we've got two or three or five dollar ones before but yeah you want this space you want this price it out and for those of you listening when pointing at the new media banner below. So you're not talking about my forehead to put the put the no of course not probably put something in there. Some sort of you know so. There isn't brand confusion people would say it has to be a flashing ad or something. I don't know but well I think it already. We should pursue ad deals with The Star Wars Franchise Red Yep Yep and the orange all those all those looming nimby figuring so then minions the minions cap those could be are three sponsors talk show up there you know I. There's I don't watch cartoons. I don't I don't either but I'll be honest with you. The MINIONS WINS I die I. That's the exception to the rule. I just I'm on the floor crying when they see movies though. What's what's the sensitive spot for Ya? Yeah I it's it's you know I don't know why but you know minions crack me up you know and you know when you can make a guy that always says like pooh-poohing cartoons when something with minions designing your you're like I gotta go see it. You went and saw the the new star wars movie finally so finally. I know I'm a little late to the party. Wasn't it's not too bad I saw. I'm not a big critic of you know. They should have done this or done that or they left this plot opener they they. There's not a lot of dialogue in that movie. I it was a lot of you know flashing lights and lightning lightening and lasers flying around in your todd radio. We get out of here everyone. Thanks for being todd. BLUEBERRY DOT COM at Geek News twitter You can find me on twitter at Rob Greenlee. That's to ease and GARAGE GREENLEE DOT COM. Manage your Siemian. Email anything to do with PODCASTING SENATOR ROB G at Lipson DOT COM. And here's the beauty. It's a podcast. We do whatever we want and we may lose you. Do whatever we want and we may lose you but Thanks for being here if you hung out to the end and Help US keep the lights. Not everyone take care with c t the same here on the media. Show new mini show DOT COM but.