Ep.003 Bob Moore
I'm Bob More I'm the general manager of Kayla sex in Los Angeles keeps escalade. I am because okay. Yeah, and he goes I said, and they're telling me that I can hire Howard Stern. And these are bells words. Do you know trickery like oh? Yeah, you know Kevin Weatherly I. Know Kevin Well Those Two idiots won't hire Howard and his contract. It states if an infinity station won't put him on. He's free to market any place in the marketplace. Whole Mike God. So, I call corporate. I say. I'm going to New York next week to meet with Howard his agent. And they go. What are you talking about? I said I'm going to get Howard Stern to come to Los Angeles morning. President Dave CIANCI. Dennis loves, radio and radio. Hey, everybody, because shotty loves everybody. Very excited to welcome Bob more for our third podcast. Thank you so much for for coming today bombers. Thankful we, we appreciate it going to get into the wealth. We decided to start the first three podcast with Los. Angeles legends, so Johnny, Kay, Rick, Cummings and Bob More how great company Really Good Company and your careers just incredible, and we're GONNA get into that in a couple of minutes, but I well let me just give you a quick view of Bob's career starting in television, and then move eventually moving into radio are rises all the way to dos of CBS, running all the sales responsible for over two hundred million dollars in revenue, a year, eventually becoming the general manager for KBC Kahlo S, working with nor nor patents. podcast one and now the president of Sports USA. Company right so incredibly impressive career before we get into all of that and all the trials and tribulations in. A emotions that you went through also hiring Howard Stern here in Los Angeles. To cover I, WanNa talk about the drink that you chose for today and by the way, let me start off by congratulating you of the three interviews. We've done so far. Johnny chose a Dole whip, which is a lowered have no idea what that is. It's like shirty. Fruity frosty type drink that he got hooked on at Disneyland in front of the Tiki. Room Rick Cummings chose T-. But you have come, and actually asked us for a gin and tonic. I'll are sorry gin vodka vodka. Todd CA tonic. I'm old school when somebody asks. What your favorite drinkers I put aside my ice tea and my diet cokes and go straight for the booze and I I love that, so we're. We're officially drinking at eleven. AM and yeah town. As. I wonder how this is going. And this is how radio UC used to be so thank you for for actually a breaking out breaking out some alcohol and it's funded. Enjoy this with you. Know problem, so fill me in on the the GIN and vodka keep on Jihad ca the tonic and vodka. Why is that your favorite drink well? Here's the thing I'm a lightweight drinker I'm not a heavy drinker so I found after sampling numerous things. That vodka tonics I could tolerate because I could always add more tonic in know, and if I really wanted to be slim about it I could do vodka soda or had more so. And it's drink that I can tolerate. You know how often do you indulge? Maybe once or twice a week? Okay, I'm really I'm not a drinker. I drank handily between the ages of sixteen and twenty. One and I quit drinking between twenty, one and thirty five. No kidding for Teen Years Yeah. That must have been incredibly difficult. Just because of the career. It wasn't difficult. There really wasn't yeah. What made you decide to take the hiatus? 'cause I was totally out of control. I'm a lightweight drinker, and I grew up in Wisconsin in a small town where everybody had a fake ID at sixteen and the drinking age was eighteen and I want to the same bar from the age of sixteen to twenty one 'cause they changed the drinking age in the middle of that two twenty one. Okay, so you were like grandfathered in yeah. Why was greater than with a fake ID okay? A. Fake Id. So at that point I realized I can't tell can't handle liquor. It's not good for me so I quit for many many years, just cold Turkey. Yeah! I didn't have a drinking problem. My problem was what drinking did to me and. I never had a thirst for alcohol. Okay, yeah, so were you in Radio in Wisconsin Casino your Crohn's I graduated from college I started radio and Oshkosh Wisconsin Oh. Okay radio station am. How'd you get the job there? My next door neighbor. Was the general manager of the radio station and he ran into me when I graduated from college. And he said what are you going to do now and I said I have no idea, but I don't want to go to Vietnam and he goes. Oh, you should come out and work for me. You should sell radio advertising. I said really and he goes come by the station tomorrow and I'll show you around. We'll discuss it all my sales manager there and we'll hire you I said okay, so I drove out the radio station one of four radio stations in Oshkosh Wisconsin. And I spent two hours walking around the radio station, interviewing with them, and they hired me, and this is a true story Chachi. I sat outside of the broadcast booth, listening to watching the guy speaking to the microphone and listening Kamata those little tiny speakers outside of the booth. Sure and that was almost fifty years ago. I have no idea how that happens. Then and I have no idea still to this day. How that happened I? Mean like the technology. I know that there's something goes to a transmitter, and that goes out the airwaves, but other than that I have no idea. Oh my God! That's hysterical the truth. Have you been to a transmitter site? I. Never thought to ask Allah Howard knew that. Something goes to that I've I've replaced satellite receivers I've done the hard lines done all that I mean I've approved Sherry. Well, apparently, you don't need to know because it's worked out just fine. Work. You've had an amazing career so Oscar. Lucky! You're an account executive. Are you there? I'm there for a little over a year. And I decided that this is it man? I gotta go to the bigger market and I've got a really burst out. So they transfer me to the home station in Madison Wisconsin Okay so this is a pretty big operator and about fourteen stations. Men West family okay. I'll assure still around today still around today, so I go to Madison I'm one of like fifteen or eighteen salespeople people, and these are the days when remember am is the king and the FM is the giveaway share almost like it doesn't exist, so I was right at that transition, sixty, eight, sixty, nine, seventy were all of a sudden, the FM stations started to make an impact and start the be valuable, but it was still the am stations were the king, and it was W SM Madison. And Magic FM in Madison and W SM was a top forty rock station actually did very well and I I did very well there. And then I decided after about two years. It was time to not leave Wisconsin, fleet was gone. Because I was driving to an appointment in January. In my suit I top coat my shoes and half the streets and Madison around forty five degree angles. It's twenty below zero and the streets are ice. My car slides down hits to other cars and I'm stuck in all bank. And I got out of the car about two hours later it got towed to a garage and I got back to the radio station and I went. This is I gotta get Outta here. This is killing me. And I did the. Stupidest thing you ever do in your radio career I. answered an Ad In Broadcasting Magazine. which was you know everything under the Sun, the luxury, the beauty. It was K. Easy Y in Anaheim sure and I flew out for an interview. they picked me up at LAX. Drove me down. Four zero five freeway got off on Beach Boulevard says in February. Got Off on Beach Boulevard drove down to pch drove pch. All the way down came back up and around to Qaisy wise radio station, and I was I was here. Your soul is seventy five degrees. It was beautiful. It's freezing in Wisconsin and It was You know it was a great experience I worked. At what easy y. what are you feeling at this time user anxiety knowing I really know none zero I knew that I when I was sixteen years old I went to a high school dance. I dyed my hair blonde. As you know spray yeah, hair dye and I told everybody I was GONNA move to California and become a beach bum. So. Took me a little longer to do it. You had this on your vision I definitely because I was a car nut. And all I did was read car. Magazines and everything was in California sure the whole carcasses I would've paid. Anybody in Wisconsin that had a black license plate with yellow letters that said California that would be like you know the icon of everything. So are your parents supportive? Oh. Yeah, no I-. Parents I left to come to California a year later. They moved to Florida retired moved to Florida so yeah, they were very supportive, so you're out here. Your first GIG is a casey. Why E do you move to? Are you in Orange County? Where do you live in the county and? Staying, you know live in an awkward garden apartments. Buddy. That's that's an LA thing. I lived in Oakwood for about the everybody does. A. So. What's your first car? You're you you get your first major market gig. Did you have a something you splurged on? You? Buy Yourself a nice car. Would you do? Let's start with the I. Don't think it's quite a major market. It's my sister in law Sanjay major market adjacent. So I drove out here in my nineteen seventy-one Javelin S. T.. Oh, my God with the Wisconsin license plates extravagant. That was kind of like the Pacer now the Javelin was. They're kind of sporty model. Okay, okay. and I drove out here and that with the White Wisconsin Yellow Wisconsin license plates, and within about two hours I, realized I stood out like a sore thumb. Like. Some farmer has just pulled in and I pulled into the parking lot. And every other car was a foreign car Mercedes audie Jaguar, so my first car was an audi- one hundred Alma realize how sure our nineteen seventy-one audie one hundred four speed, and you just feel like you're on top of felt like I had California. License plates I was like made. That's fantastic, and you start off assuming being as a very difficult position, and it's certainly not easy and certainly not easy, and in a major at an adjacent to a major market. How did that go right off the bat? Well it was very interesting because they had a policy that. If you called on somebody else's account and you sold it. You had the split the commission with that other salesperson, so I'm brand new to the market and I. I don't know where I am I. Don't know where I'm going. And there was an older sales guy that had been there about twenty years, and he would say here's ten accounts. You should call on. And I'll and they were his accountant's so I'm author selling his? Splitting the commission. So I'm thinking. About about six weeks I'm going this Saint I don. This isn't the way to do it. It was good I mean he was getting paid off. Clever guy. Why at that time was a great great radio station. So how'd you end up from easy Y in television? Because I know you spent time at KABC and Casey O. P. so that's why I said. I'm not sure if you have six hours today, but we'll go through his resume quickly. Yeah, Casey Y. I WANNA to move to La. 'cause I WANNA get into the big leagues right so I apply for a job at Kiro Q. a M. Fifteen hundred shirk karaoke, the new the new hot rock station in Los Angeles. So I get hired as a salesperson. Roommate in Casey. Why wants to come to L. A. also he? He applies Katie in fifteen eighty Katie, so he gets hired, so we both move up to Los Angeles and realize that between the two of us. Are Radio stations don't reach more than a quarter mile from the radio. I I, so I stayed there for a little over a year. went through all I. Don't know if you know the history of k rock am but all the trials and tribulations checks bouncing and Oh, always it was insanity him. At the time it was a company called Burbank Broadcasting. It was a consortium of fourteen individual owners, and they came on the air with a big bar. You know they had Charlie Tuna Sam riddle I forget all the different but major talents. They hired a bunch of people from Cage Jay Big Jim. Would the WLS. You Know Guy, so they had all these big talent Johnny Darren at all. These major talents paid a lot of money had a fourteen person. News Department Shays Big Irish and it was A. Small, am station out of Burbank so after you know of a typical non radio owners after about eight or nine months without a return on investment you know. They started to pull back on money, so it got finances got tough everything then. When I left was the second regime was there which was shadow Stevens and God I forget all the other ones, but a lot of you know Frazier Smith a lot of other people the. Salaries. Yeah, and I got hired at K. DJ. Okay? If you remember that original Kiss F, K Dj so I went to K- K DJ I. was there a year and a half and I went to KF WB and a the always. WENT TO KF WB and I was there for maybe two years, so my resume was a year and a half two years year, and a half two years year and a half two years. Did you see like greener pasture? Just saw greener pastures and I did very well at all. These places I was very lucky I was successful, and so you still living with your roommate or you out on your by this time I was married Oh. So when did you wife Helen Seventy four and we got married in seventy five. Where were you at that point? Still in Orange County not are no. I was appear. You're up here. How did you guys meet? She was the traffic director. I never knew the story. That's fantastic well. You want to hear the worst part of the story lease. Yeah, I in Wisconsin Oh my God. I had no idea I was married for nine months separated for six. It was marriage made in heaven, so she was the traffic director. You've got a thing for traffic while the story is I did anything to get my commercials? I. So hold on. Let's go back to Wisconsin for a second right when you moved to La. Did you bring your wife with you or did? She stunned literally married for nine months separated for six. She stayed back, so she stayed back in Wisconsin now. Guys trying to repair things or yes. I actually brought her out here because I thought I, didn't give it a full shot. It's my fault I. was you know maybe? I wasn't attentive enough. Maybe I wasn't this and she flew out. I flew out to Los. Angeles Arctic Orange County. We spent one month together. Had A fight. But it was just there was nothing there you could tell so one night. I just looked at her, and I said look. You're not happy. I'm not happy. Why don't you take whatever you want and you want to go back to Wisconsin I'll pay for your flight back and ship everything back whatever it is and she goes. Yeah. I think that's the best thing so I went to work Monday morning. And I came home. And this is a true story. I came home. The apartment was completely boxed up except. A thirteen inch color TV we had three TV's. There was a thirteen inch color TV. Some of those cartoon character glasses that you got for free when you filled up your car. Yes couple of those some broken silverware and a couple of plates, everything else was gone, and we were the first ones to get married in our family both families. We had complete set of China. We had crystal we had. I mean antique furniture. We had all this stuff. And everything was packed up. And heading back the Wisconsin, so you are. You're new city for just a handful of months. You're alone. I mean what is that? Are you happy? Are you anxiety? What does that feel like? The first six months I was very very lonely, very lonely and I flew back to Wisconsin. About six months after I moved out here and went and visited, my friends and Kinda hung out and Madison and. Talk to everybody and I'll never forget this. I flew back. As we were landing at LAX, you know when you come in over the forum and you can Kinda. See Escape of the city sure as we were landing I went. I'm home. This is my home, so that's when you feel. That's when I knew I was I was a Californian yeah. So from there, you now what it's about a year year and a half later. You're at K. Rock, am and you meet another traffic director? Why no and beautiful very funny great lady. Helen, and how did that? How did you guys will I know how you met obviously there? But how does the soul conversation startup well? I she was from Lido, island very elite, and I tried the later and she wouldn't go out with me. But she went with my roommate. Your roommate, who is also in radio? So I that made me that was the challenge said that's it so I just kept persisting precise our first date. This is a true story our first date. Was the playboy jazz festival at the Hollywood bowl. Sure it's a great. She brought her brother with us. Now is she done? Dating remained at this time. Oh Yeah, not showing what him a couple of see. Okay, maybe just make me upset. Because I was persistent. So after you go on this date to the Hollywood bowl. I mean just an amazing venue I. Did she start to fall for you at this point, or is she still kind of I'm not sure she ever. For me. I. Know I mean we were very lucky. You know we were. We! Both had the vision to do something. You know to grow together. As a couple and we've been very lucky. We've got a great relationship. So, now you're at K., K. Deejay. Did she say behind at on? No, then she laughed and. She started an interior design business. Okay, yeah, actually make sense because your houses spectacular. Thank got some her blaming the design. I mean just a beautiful home. The Art we have very similar art tayside. Just in love with what you guys have done with your home. Yeah, that's all her. Trust me. I can help them to deal with any of it. So K. K. DJ. You're eighty either KFI that'll be okay. That's right a two years a calf WB, and I decided that you know television. Was this allure to be in a work at ABC television, so I gotta I wasn't applied for a job at KABC channel seven got hired as an e. and. It was a very eye opening experience because radio was a personal business. Television is a commodity business, its supply and demand. It's limited inventory with networks. Yeah, okay and. I was there for two years and. I did very well. is an interesting story I, was the number one salesperson, and in those days they had a cap on how much money you could make. Really, so the CAP was forty five thousand dollars a year. For, a, salesperson. In July I hit the CAP. And I said so, what do I do for the rest of the year? And they said you service your clients and get business. That's the deal. That's wild I'd never heard of that model bef- yeah, oh. So, what did you do? That we need to work. Yeah, now. I I liked it was that all of TV, had that model, or is that kind of specific I? Think? Maybe it was specific to. ABC ABC at a system where they constantly wanted to put you into management, the sales people were recruited into management. They had what they call. The spot sales system so they didn't want to overpay the sales. People I, so would not go into the spots. They'll system where he could make a little bit more money, and then eventually come out as a manager. Make a little more money, and also was an incentive based business got so you're you're upside was greater and enraged. My upside was much greater in radio, but they always kept trying to move me. In this spot sale system, they kept saying wow, you can go to Detroit, Chicago, You Go York and I'm going I just spent twenty four twenty five years of my life trying to get out of there. Yeah I, WANNA go back. You've got your Audi now you're you're black and yellow license. Play come on. How long are you there? About two years and one of my other one of the sales, people that I worked with left and became the sales manager. CASSIOPEIA thirteen okay. And in that two year period he got promoted to the general sales manager and hired me to be a local sales manager, so then I went from there. To. The local sales manager Channel Thirteen K. C. O. P.. Now, there's later in the story. There's a connection remember that I was the local sales manager at Casey. O P channel thirteen in Los Angeles all right. I'll. I'll I will definitely keep that in mind. What is it like at this point I've heard some stories? my Ex father-in-law, who unfortunately has has a passed away, but he was the sales manager kt right here in Los Angeles and this is the the late seventies through the eighties I was. Eight eighty. Okay, my my understanding was. It was pretty harsh like there are stories about him jumping on the conference table during sales, meetings and hooting and hollering and screaming, and it was a very I think by today's standards, a pretty aggressive environment it was. The Wild West no exaggeration. It was the wild west. It was insanity. It was rough riders. Me had. Our Primetime schedule. Was Streets of San Francisco double run into broad. You Know Baretta double run into this double run. If you add a point four share, you're in good position. And it was packaging and it was. It was the wild west. It was insanity a lot of entertaining. was there a hall entertainment lot of partying all partying all entertainment all high end restaurants all taking the buyers out massaging the doing anything under the sun and you're sober. Yeah I'm sober. What's that like going through that well? It was also the cocaine era Shir. Yes, so I mean it was rampant in the advertising business at that time so I'm at these and it was disco. Everything that was going on in Los, Angel- ride, and I'm like this straight laced sober guy. That has no idea what's going on with everybody I can't figure out why a salesperson would come in the office. Happy could be two hours later sweating. red-faced upset three hours later sleeping. I had no idea what was going on. Really were just a blow, just oblivious, just the oshkosh. Cash. Life I'm in. They're going what's going on. I do not sleep last night, so your connection than obviously had to be something just very authentic and genuine with the different agencies, and I was very fortunate. Yeah, I got a lot of good relationships and from ABC, especially I made great relationships and those transferred over to K. C o p. I was going to be a quick story. I got an order for Vaughan's before. I left to go to Casey O p. it was a second quarter order. For Von Supermarket for for KABC television. It was several hundred thousand dollars several hundred. More than three. Wow I want casey o p went back to see the same buyer with my salesperson instead. Carve out. One hundred grand, you know. Give us a little Bonier. I got thirty six thousand dollars for the order cheese. And she said that's a gift. And, you're still capped at this point cry. No, no now. I'm a case COP. Nice our so now you know ran new company car, Yok. Would happen to the Audi the Audi was. Yanni was thirty cars before, but I've got a nineteen seventy-eight Cadillac Seville all my God. You're living life. You're driving driving driving in my caddy every day to work. It's like straight out of once upon a time was. That's yeah, that's exactly what it was and that was about the Arrow. Trust me. That's fantastic, so such an amazing time in La Radio, but just radio in general, but obviously you're still not on the TV side. So what makes you at that point? You then shift back to radio? Correct, so Tim Sullivan who was the general manager of Cage Jay. And I had hooked up a couple of times when I was working in radio, and he had gone to a brand new radio station called K hits. He was the general manager Okay and he was looking for GSM. So, he called me we met. And and I I did not like television at this point. It was not what I I mean. It was crazy. Honestly, the wild west is the only way to describe it. What your former father in law said is exactly the way it was. It was manny. It was maniac. She's so crazy. You wanted something more stable I wanted some I wanted to get back. The radio because radio was a passion business. You know you could feel it. You could express it. You could sell it that way. Television, commodity was sold as a commodity. It is a commodity. You have no control over the program and you have no control over anything. So He tried to hire me I. said Nah just doesn't seem like the right time. ETC, etc.. And, about six months later cage T. Z. went on the air and was doing really well a soft rock station and I called him up and I said. Let's get together for lunch and I'd like to talk to you again. He goes great. Come on over, so I over I made the deal want to Cage T. Z. nine months later. He left and went to magic. One zero six is the GM so now there's a GM opening so I went there as the general salesman. And we were doing very well. We were owned by Greater. Media Little Company out of New Jersey. and we're doing really well. I'm thirty five years old and her mccord. Who is the? President of the Radio Division La and said. We want you to be the GM. So, that was my start a my GM career and you. You never looked back. I've never looked. Nominal yeah. What would you say is? The biggest difference between being in management, because you're still certainly responsible for an overall number, so sales is still part. I, as opposed to being a what was the biggest shock for you? While the biggest, the biggest change is you're responsible for everything including the license. Which you know Kayla Sex era? That's a whole different story. But. I mean you just have to? Here's the one thing you have to learn to do. I. Don't think any good general manager. CanNot learn the art of delegation. which is a senior management skillset, so you have to be able, and I was always the sales general manager, and I never wanted to lose my my hands on the sales part of the of the industry because I knew that's what drove the engine, and I was very fortunate to align myself with great programmers and great talent, so if you had the great talent and the Great. Programmers, the sales are working to make the difference. You know it's interesting. He said at the beginning of the podcast that you are sober from twenty one to thirty five. Right when you become general manager thirty five, you start drinking again now. Those were called the The ninety seven cents happy hours. We used to Ha-. So, how long are you there as GM? I was there from. Nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety one. Years the long run. Who owned was greater media all greater media. And then. Norm Patas. which goes back to the original story? Norm Patas calls me from Westwood One And says. I want you to come over and run my radio division, which was pirate radio in Los Angeles. Any W am in New, York and WNYC FM in New York, which gigantic opportunity so Zantac operative dive into this for a second arm is just a huge personality icon icon creator. Greater media was a pretty stable company stable. Corporate I think probably treated you very well. I was treated like a king. We were forty percent of the revenue of the company cheese. Now norm at this point I know were enormous reputation as of today in in looking I've never really worked directly with him, but I think all of us in this industry. No Fair amount you've got to give him his due respect. I mean I really invented syndication as we know it, he'll go as far to claim that he's invented. podcasting I'M GONNA I'll give him that, but he certainly been a big influence and. and well without without norm, there wouldn't be podcast networks. He sought and we'll get into. Yeah, so, what is his reputation? At this point? He's the best in the world. He really is I mean he's a creative genius. I carried a lot of shows on Kayla. That's all we knew each other okay. He took me to a bunch of LAKER Games. Once you know once you sit on the floor. And then they call you and say we're want you to run this twelve hour special. You're not saying no. Norm. has seats literally on the floor next to Jack? Nicholas, right Nicholson Sorry, the Gulf in the actor sometimes confused on Golfing. Fan, but you couldn't ask for better seats at the Lakers dabs his logo, I I love his famous for rolling up his program and he'll get up on his on his feet. Jump Up and down and. Raise his hand with his program and yell at the The refs and the players, and so forth so that's his logo. Is Him holding that that program, so he's a very dynamic Laker fan to say the very least he bleeds. Great Great Guy so you go to work there and pirate in of itself is just a gigantic I mean that station just exploded on the scene here and in La Is Scott Shannon there at that? Also I'm brought in to replace the takeover Scott Shannon's leaving. Okay, we're going to phase two of pirate, which is alternative rock, because pirate kind of hit that crossroads where they didn't, they couldn't make the decision or didn't make the decision between alternative and and yeah hop forty the hair bands. They didn't kind of right we're having. Destroyed a because. They had no idea that this was going to become. What, what those hair bands I mean welcomed the without pirate radio guns, N. Roses I. Don't think would have been anywhere close to guns and I think of Gr and pirate radio like Souness Oh they are. Scott was a genius you know when he came in here and talk about station that disrupted the market in a matter of weeks just within a handful months sow. It was amazing and you guys spent a lot of money. I remember the outdoor. I remember. There was no joke when it came to the marketing and radio station right. So, what is that like? You decide to make that jump, are you? Do you have your daughter's your? Your daughter warned by that point, so yes, my daughter's like five or six. That's a pretty big. You've got a family now yards family. It's a big responsibility, but it was something I always wanted to be. I wanted to be in charge of group I thought that that was the next step. Because I'm one of those people that sets goals and you got is constantly. Move Up and this is. This is a group doing more revenue. Or upside salary rise and IT'S NEW YORK AND LA so. Big that was the the idea was I was overseeing both La and New York. That's a bad never understood that that's how you going back and forth going back and forth MGM Grand Baby, Oh my I remember you telling me the story that was the airline that the MGM casinos owned and was virtually like a were flying private, Florida the an opposite tournament on the other attornal terminal terminal on the other side of lax. So you drove your car up. It's like like fine private. You had like a little sweet cracks idea. They changed the by the time I started flying them. They had changed those planes to like regular. You know, but it was all China. You know four or five mule service to Newark rate just the way we kind of vision lines like these giant Barcalounger types chairs in a one time I flew back, and it was me Joan rivers and her dog. Other time it was me Annie Liebowitz. Oh my Gosh! The photographer and I said to my friend. I Goff. This plane goes down. They're going to name all the celebrities and say some Radio Guy. So. What station was it? New York WNYC FM which was the only country station at the time guy and w any. AM The heritage am radio station? So you have three or four radio stationary three that you're over what kind of revenue or these stations doing at that point well? Ideally would be about forty or forty five million. This was nineteen, ninety, ninety one. Okay, so we're coming out of the first recession. Sheriff also businesses tight, and my job is to resurrect obviously the sales in as well as make four matic changes, if if necessary or changed some programming, but and replace some people, but it's really bring in the revenue. How involved is norm on a day to day with you very much, so I reported the norm, so he was still he had the network at this point all rightly. Dividing his attention between the two right, well I wouldn't say dividing his attention, but he wanted to know he was very interested in the radioside. He'd always wanted radio stations. He was very interested in the radio side, so he was very involved in that. Would he go on calls with you because he's a very? Oh, yeah. That's not the right word but Dynamic. Thank you just had a party at his house which was like this? Zillionaire man. Home be hills all with all the clients and everything, so if you've got a client or someone who's close to a dealership and they're interested. I got tickets I got Laker tickets I had four seats. I had four on the other side. All my Gosh, she's series. So you had your own set it tickets that you could go out and Internet access them. And then he had a big enough client, oh my God and high seats. The hockey Oh Jeez. Yeah, that's back Gretzky oh. Yeah, these are the days, yeah! So, he had a one more thing on norm. Let's get back to you, but while we're here. I certainly like to talk about it. He had a Yod as well correct at a yacht in an airplane. a Bob the life man that you have. This was insane so back to the COP store. Yes, so norman. I are flying to New York. Okay while you're at Casey O p. no, no, no, this is when I'm at pirate appear at A. Case right right. I was Senior Vice President Executive Vice President of the Westwood One radio. Group so we're flying to New York. Right on his private plane so when you didn't want to fly mgm, you could take. He invited me, said you WANNA. Come with me I'm going to New York you want. Are you going out there I? Said Yeah. Actually I've got a bunch of calls scheduled meetings. He goes wanted to fly with me, so we're flying out there and he goes. Do you know I hired you? And I said now. And he said I said well I didn't say no, I said Yeah because I'm the best general manager in the country as well. That's part of it, but that's not the reason I said. Because I'm very creative and I work well with talent and people he goes. That's part of it, but that's not the reason and I go. Why did you hire me and he goes because you work the case, GOP and if you could sell that Shit you could sell anything. I-. Norms job before. Westwood one was the local sales manager of Casey. O P. o No kidding I never knew that. That's incredible relationships. Still to this day is is strong and we'll get to that absoltely so. How long are you at at the Westwood One Radio Group? Overseeing pirate and he I took those stations right to the ground zero. So. Ninety Eighty, nine, ninety, ninety. One is when the crash really was going on the first recession. Right so. Business was very difficult. Interest rates were extremely high. Then notes that we borrowed to buy. Those radio stations were really. You know high interest rates. I remember someone I think was Johnny. K told me the story he'd bought a house. In that era I. think is in seventeen or eighteen percent on his crazy so. The Loan payments every quarter were more than we were making. Oh, my gosh, so norm, said you know we can't chase this. Can you turn around. Can you make pirate radio instead of fifteen million and billing? Can You do twenty five million? Can you get new? York the fifteen million. CAN HE GET DEBBIE? W of fifteen million. Because that's basically what we had to do, so he decided to sell the radio stations. So. How long were you there at that point so I was there? Ninety one to ninety three little over two years. Were you at this point second-guessing grave, leaving greater media. Yes and no. But I'll tell you what. And there's a hundred radio owners. That would have said. Your Contracts GonNA end. And I'll work with me. We'll try to help you at the end. Etcetera, etcetera norm came to me. This is a man. She came to me and said look I'm going to have to sell these radio stations. You've done a great job. It's not fair. I'm going to extend your contract for another year I'm going to give you X. amount of more stock helped me work this deal out I. Need you to go to the meetings? Make the deals work with me. ETC, etc, while he paid me every single nickel of that. And if you remember back in those days, it was very commonplace for people to get sold out of a job and walk out the door with six weeks or four weeks or something like that are still incredibly in place and I think back. That was back in the Corporate Raider Days in Utah Yeah. That's exactly it was all acquisitions. It was all these venture. That's when ventures I came in sure. So these fascinating people I mean norm just one we're GONNA get buried in the Dickie's and CBS. Now so you you feel at least you're okay financially. You've got a year long deal, so at least you're not to cry stressed and you've got some time to find your your next Gig. Well I WANNA radio GIG. And, Someone Hooks me up with a head hunter. Four kick and kilt and Houston. Okay the big country surgeons Westinghouse yeah so. I go on, meet Dan Mason I fly back to Maryland. Meet with Dan Mason. and. You know. He offered me the job, so I'd take the job in Houston. Hugh moved to Houston. Oh I didn't know anything about this either, so we all pod. You'll leave your la dream now I leave my l a dream. And how does Helen in your house your daughter at this point seven? My daughter's like so this is ninety three. She's born in eighty five. So, what does she seven? Yes, okay, so she's still pretty young up, but so I go down there by myself and they're going. Because the school years already started I saw. They're going to go down. It's August I go down there. They're going to finish the first year and then come to Houston so. We're flying back and forth looking at real estate and everything, and after about four months. I realized this is the mistake of my life. I woke up one morning. Houston's got the greatest in the world. The nicest people I've ever met in my life. It's the only time in my entire career. The people would call me up and say. How are you doing, Bob? How do you enjoy our city and I? Would say oh, it's great. What do you need? You need tickets to something. No. I just wanted to see how you're doing genuine genuine. So About four months in though I wake up one morning. It's. Eighty eight degrees six o'clock in the morning. It's raining and it's ninety six percent humidity. And I went. I'm in Hell. I mean it's just you know you can't go from California the Vassar and I realized this is not right for me. It was more a geography than the get self. It was total geogra- it was it was the GIG because I wanted to be GM. That was the thing that was what was driving me. I've had a passion to be a GM I knew I could help somebody. So. Go On for another couple of months and I'm sitting in my office on a Friday afternoon. I was going to go home that weekend I decided not to. Because we had a big concert, we had a big country concert. and I wanted to go to the concert on meet the clients. Do everything and I get a phone call. From greater media headquarters. And small talk you know a you know. How do you like it down there? Have you moved down there? I said no, no I have moved yet. You know we're thinking about putting their house on the market and January, but you know I don't know we've looked at some places down here. Be I. Mean Great Places also great communities to live in, and you get a lot more for you. Yeah, we got ton for your money but it's also a city where everything is. Air conditioned it all like the the. The tunnel in the mall is air conditioned. Because the minute you walk outside right I, had I parked under a covered I was the only person the GM's parking lot. A spot was under a covered. sh like a shed top, but it was like covered, and I said. Why am I the only one that gets a covered pot, 'cause? You can't touch the steering wheel on your car. People had gloves so when they'd come out to their car. My Gosh is that hot. Oh, it's penetrating heat. So and humidity anyway. And finally. They said at greater media. They said you know what why don't you just come back? We want you back in L. A.. and. I said I'll come back. But I want to be able to do what I WANNA do which has changed the format. I don't want to be you know we had Howard Morning I. Hired Howard Eighty nine negotiated that deal. I left the ninety one. And came back in ninety three. Also, how serendipitous is that out? I mean the timing, so I said I. WanNa go to I. WanNa go to FM talk. And they say well. Okay. We'll look at it. You know this that you know just a few months. You know. See what you can do with the all you know because we are. Class Howard Stern morning classic rock all day. So. Come back move back to La. Very satisfied had to call Dan Mason. Ask which didn't go over well, but he was a gentleman. He was very nice. and I explained to him. It's a family situation in my family's never gonNA move here because Helen told me about four months in. You can do what you want to do I'm not moving. I'm not coming down there. Know that's just not right and I'll my daughters were very happy here in a we're in the process of rebuilding our house in Studio City so. I come back to L. A.. But six months later. We decide to flip to the FM. Talk Station. So. And they agree to this. You. Take taken the GIG you're that adamant about. Why thank God, why did you want to make that change? I was. Close with all the guys at the loop in Chicago and I saw what they were doing and again it's a unique in one of the things that Fred Jacobs taught me very on early on in the in the business when we came classic, Rock Midwest. Boy, right was be the most unique thing on the dial the only thing in your lane. So if you're the only classic rock station, be the only classic. Rock Station be the Best Classic Rock Station you could be. I felt there was a whole for an FM. Talk Station in Los Angeles with Howard in the morning. Because Howard gave us all that and if you watch the research on Howard. It was the people that love Howard. Listen for two hours a day. The people that hated Howard listened for two and a half to three hours a day, so he had that compelling audience. And I thought there would be a way we could transfer that. And that's when Walter Sabo entered the picture. Can we before we go to Walter? Sabo my apologies for this, but I want to back up to eighty nine prior to you going to work with norm. How did the Howard thing combat the first time? You know the name how he gilman. I do not how a Gilman was global satellite. Network syndicator combat similar, which became harder, dial global right. It was A. Competitor of Westwood One okay. He did right. He was rock line. That was his big show. Sure sure at okay. Absolute so I'm sitting in my office one afternoon. At Kayla sex I got a phone call from Howie. Gilman and I thought Oh Christ. There's another syndicator pitching me a show right now. They're Chachi. Show. So I, pick it up ago. What's happening how he goes? Do you want Howard Stern? I said I'd love Howard Stern. He goes. Here's his agents number. Call him he'll come to la I go howie. Howard Stern's not gonNA come away because my principal competitor is K Rock K rock is owned by Infinity Howard's owned by Infinity. Why would they allow me to hire Howard Stern? He says just call the number. So. I pick up the phone call Don Buchwald. And I say Don. I'm supposed to call you because apparently. Howard Stern's available. The come to Los Angeles he goes is. I said Don. There's no way infinity is going to let me hire the number one DJ in the country to come to Los, Angeles and compete, against K. Rock, they own K rock. He goes here's Mel Karmazin private line. Call him no and I go okay because I'm. So I call. And I say look I'm Bob More? I'm the general manager of Kale. A sex in Los Angeles keeps escalate goes okay. Yeah, and he goes. I said and they're telling me. That I can hire Howard Stern. And these are wells words. Do you know trickery like Oh. Yeah, you know Kevin, weatherly! Kevin, well those two idiots won't hire Howard and his contract. It states if an infinity station won't put him on. He's free to market any place in the marketplace. Hole might God. So I call corporate. I say. I'm going to New York next week to meet with Howard and his agent. And they go. What are you talking about? I said I'M GONNA. Get Howard Stern to come the Los Angeles and do mornings. Unbelievable so I. This is the best part of the story so I have my promotion director. Take Up. Hollywood the sign, the Hollywood sign Scher and have an artist render it as Howard. Would I put it nice. It's about. Two and a half feet long, nice, framed and everything and Steve. Ellis's my program director at the time, and I get on the plane. Fly New York. Meet with Howard and Buckwald and how Buckwald office and I present him this in all this sign right and he's blown away. He's like this is the greatest thing in the world. My dream is to come to L. A.. I've always wanted to be in LA I. WANNA proved everybody I can do it. I. I WanNa make the studio. Executives know who I am because that was. Howard's goal was to be global. Okay, so at the time he's only on in all the infinity stations on the East Coast. Sure he's he's he's syndication is not outside of infinity. He genuinely wants to be the king of me wants to be the king of all media, so we go through this negotiation period. And we make the deal. And I think that's why. We had such a great relationship because he really saw that everybody in the business. Everybody told me this will never work. And take show from new. York and rebroadcast at an La. It'll never work. And I went. He's unique. He's different now now now it won't work and I went back to Howard and I said you know. Everybody's telling me and he goes Bob Look. You've got a mayor in L.. A. That people think is nuts. We have a mayor of New York that thinks people think they're nuts. You got a boss pisses you off. Everybody's got boss pisses them off. You hear a funny story. It's the same you know. It's New York. It's funny in La Trust me. I can do this that. Really paved the road for his whole expansion I mean because he was a regionalized at that right lane, and you're the first person that take a chance to put on a completely different region right, and it was the greatest fifteen year. Right of my career on real did weatherly or trip ever come to you and kind of acknowledge that I understand? They had Kevin and bean which? I understand their position. Sure he would have been so disruptive to what they were doing. Yeah, you know it wouldn't fit at all because they would would've told him. You're playing for records and our. That wasn't Howard. Is You bought how when you bought? Howard you got Howard, which means? When when magic as you know diagnosed with AIDS, and then he does four days of AIDS jokes about Magic Johnson. You might basically have riots right in front of our radio station when Selena gets shot and he starts doing jokes about that and we have the National Hispanic Media Coalition. Go against us. How do you deal with all that as general manager? With a lot of support. and. You have to learn very quickly that. Your control is limited. You know, and so that was the whole. It started before we got him, but that was the editing process. So then we had an editor for our show, so they had an editor back there. We at an editor here, okay? Have, right out shops and stuff out we had to. How did Howard take to that co? Not Well not well. Would he call you personally you? Call me on the air and personally. Do you just have to let it roll off, I just had well. Here's the one thing. I realized very early on. You cannot be combative with Howard. Because, I don't know if the real Howard is the on air, guy or the off air guy but. You know I will tell you when I went to hire him, and we had that meeting in New York. He's the most introverted person I ever met my life. You know as big as he is five six six, he was hunched over low down sitting on the couch and like a fetal position. He's not. He's not that aggressive. A personality in person would you say in obviously gone through this transformation over the last couple years Do you think he was actually more the person he is now, and he was kind of playing a character before or or somewhere in between I think the radio gave him freedom to be what he wanted to be. because. He didn't feel he was being judged every day and I think he will still talk about the fact that he's very introverted. He wants to stay at home he wants. He's very comfortable inside his house. Did you ever feel I guess disrespected in some of the things that he would say and hot water that he would stick you know. 'cause I understood. That was his stick his Don Buckwald. His agent told me when I started negotiating. He goes thorough people at like Howard. There are people. Don't like Howard. Your job is to find more people at like Howard, the the ones that don't like Howard. It's that simple. and. He's right. That was the thing. Did the success here in La was right away or did it take? Some time took about a year and I took a little over about a year and I'll. But I mean he. Hit the ground running. Those were the days when his plan was to destroy the competition. So I remember savings that he would dawn on an all. Right everybody that was his plan. His plan was. My attack plan is simple. You go in. Who's the kings of the market? You disrupt them immediately. Rick Dees Mark and Brian. You go right after him Jay Thomas Whoever it is, you just target those people and you're constantly beat on 'em. Well it worked Oh. Yeah, so let's go back to ninety three right so you're now back at Calisthenics in. You've convinced him to flip to talk. Let's pick it up there and Sabo right so. Walter Sabo is a consultant. Who's doing live one zero five and New Jersey? and. I forget the Orlando call letters, but it's an FM talk station in Orlando Okay and it's very very successful number one station in the market. Howard in the morning very very successful. So I meet with Walter and He. Is a phenomenal salesperson. And he convinces me that this is the right time to do it, but in order to do it. We need to. Make these personalities following Howard? As. Crazy and as Disruptive as he is, that's the word I use disruptive. Okay, so following Howard. We Hire Ken Ober and we match him with Susan Olsen from the Brady Bunch shirt and over from MTV. Yeah Susan Brady. Following that we have these two guys call the regular guys. People were putting together now. We're just putting shows together. Jackson oversee the program that are not yet not yet not yet. Then we go to. Ricky Rachman. On MTV line then we go to conway and stickler. who were two guys doing a Internet show? This is nineteen. Ninety, four, ninety, five, ninety, four, or doing an Internet show. Nobody even knows what the Internet is. Still Nail right so and then we do mother love. At Night, OH, my Gosh! Followed by rocks, the Rock and roll psychic. who does all this casting alter only? and. He's got this spell that he convinces me. This is the greatest thing in the world. So. We're rolling along. Oh in Kato Kaylin, I mentioned I forgot I forgot the one minor role in their. Kato Kaylin. You're blown up I'm I'm guessing fairmount avenue at this time twenty three million dollars billion radio stations, greater media's really bought into this greater media is rolling the dice okay on their most successful radio station in the in the company. Is this now the most pressure you've ever felt. Absolutely, so we have a press release. Press gathering. Walter says we gotTa do this right? We're GONNA roll out the whole cast. All right and we're going to change the name to real radio. No, not real radio was it was radio could actually get was real radio? and He puts echo behind everything. So, we have this press, really press conference I'd like the Four Seasons Hotel literally. There's every television station every newspaper. I've never seen anything like this in my life and they're up there with you know asking Kato Kaylin questions. Asking this questions is during the O. J. Trial. l., my God so. All this stuff's going on now. Howard. Is Calling it radio. Hindenburg I'm they're. Calling me at three o'clock in the morning going Bob Have you lost your mind. Are you under some spell? Got Got to a Rehab Facility. There's obviously something he's lost his mind. This is going on for about two months so every day I'm going to Walter going. We gotta take the River Howard goes. Kill the river this way. This reversed on all the promo everything. Goes Kill the river destroyed. It goes. You're destroying the radio station, so we'd kill the rebirth. I'm going to Cato every day sitting down with them and saying Kato. Don't want you to talk about whether he did it or not, but you've got to kind of build a relationship to the audience of why you're involved in this case. Did you know him? Did you hang out with them? Right? Friends with the family. Did you do anything you know where you locked in that back room, never saw anything until the night of the murders, but you just gotTa talk about something. So the day that they did the glove thing you know, will it fit? You gotTA doesn't fit. You gotTa Crack Yeah I. said the Cato. You've got to talk about this, you. You can't not talk about it because the audience is not react. They're not buying into this. So he goes on the air and and his topic is imagine an alien lands on the four Oh five freeway. What would you do? So. I saw very quickly that an older would keep coming to me every morning going. This ain't work and how many how big of a day party you giving Cato Cato Ed two hours. Geez out Seattle Fire Kato. I had a fire I. mean. We got rid of Auburn Olsen because those two it. As you well know you're a radio programmer. You can't just grab two people. Put them together and make it work. It's tough. Yeah, if there's no chemistry, it doesn't work. Now. The guys that had the most chemistry chemistry were the regular guys, and then they blew up on the air, so we had to fire them, but. So I had to fire over and Olsen. Kato. Ricky Rachman got in a fight with dicey. And Punch. Doug staedtler out so I had to do something with the the. Linda Mule Yeah Yeah Well Ryan. All about I remember. This made like big news, right? Conway and Sackler, we're talking about the fact that Ricky was dating this Janine. Linda, Mueller, this porn star right. and. Con stickler was making these. Derogatory, discouraging remarks about her, so ricky got upset. Came to the radio station and punched. Stadler! Punched him out got arrested. Let let other radio station in handcuffs. Neil say he's gone. So stickler called the police. Yeah, Oh, yeah, filed a police report. Oh my God! Are you at the station at this hour? Yeah. So. And I'm in a meeting downstairs in the conference room and we get a phone call, and it's in the meeting and says Ricky punched out. staedtler and I'm thinking Ricky Philly our. Remember Ricky. Phillies Roger. And they said no Rachman so I fight. We had to get rid of him. We had to get rid of the regular guys Kato. o'byrne Olsen mother loved did not work at all. That was like a nightmare. Then we got rid of Vox, the rock and roll psychic. What are your bosses? A greater media at this point says so supportive. They knew we could fix it. What's revenue like is? The station drops from twenty three to sixteen. We lose seven million dollars. People would say to us. Literally I would go to clients that we had relationships with for ten fifteen years. I don't want free spots I. Don't want anything. I don't want to be on your radio station. McDonald's Ford dealers. and. What's your answer to him? It was the best thing that ever happened to me. You know why why I want to sail. Staff and I said look. There's a path of least resistance. That's the agencies. We're not going to get him. Gordon, create business yet new business. Same thing happened with Howard agencies didn't want to buy him, I said what are we going to pack? Our tent moved to another town. Go find clients that want to buy them. And that opened the doors? And made us not one hundred percent dependent on agency business. And you're getting better eight getting a much better rate results. Yeah, which means they keep coming back buying more and. Measurable. So how do you stabilize this ship? You've got obviously. Howard stays as your anchor, but you've basically now completely rebuilt the rest the radio station now it's nineteen ninety seven. Malcolm Zahn is the radio station. and. Dan Mason Is the head of the radio. Division he goes. Remember being the guy you quit on in Houston after three months so Dan calls me and I go hey Dan. How are you? That's great. You Know Mel's coming out next week. He wants to meet with you. Go. Yeah, no problem I'd love to. So, Mel comes out I took on a take him through what we're everything and he looks at me and he goes. Do me a favor. BUB! Shut the station off after ten am. Save me the power bill. Until you hire a program director that knows what he's doing and get the right talent in here. Don't do this anymore. So I called Kevin weatherly. 'cause I was now part of the family, sure right and I said Kevin. I need a program director that can help. With Howard and FM talk. He goes. You don't need a program director. You need a producer. I want you to call. Jack Silvery down in San Diego give them a call. So I called Jack. He drove up here. We met at the high are the Howard Johnson, whatever it is the one on the four. Oh Five! Yeah, sure I know exactly. Yes, circular build right. And I went. This is my guy hired him on the spot. And you guys work together for quite some time. Eighteen nineteen years, and then he brings in Corolla. Now. This is way way earlier, so he brings first thing he does is bring like us in other now we have now. We have Howard in the morning, so you get to work. Turn Radio Turns. Off Go in the office. You got one two four minutes. The catch them in afternoon drive when they get back in their car to go home. Like US goes into afternoon drive. He catches them. And all because that was Tom Zach. That the time he was on conservative Talk Radio on Kfi Pride, and when he came to Kayla Sex, he realized my demos. I'm following Howard Stern. It's not that I'm on right after Howard. But those cars the go to work when they shut the radio off, it's on ninety seven one. So I gotta catch him and one to three minutes in afternoons. So That work that piece worked than we did. Several midday shows until we got to. You know we had Sam Rubin we had a bunch of other people filling in after Howard between between Howard and the actual midday show, because remember I had Howard live at three am. Three am to six am from New York? Then I re ran the show. From six am to win ever. And most of my shows went over at eleven eleven fifteen eleven thirty, so my midday show was as harshly forty five minutes thirty minutes forty five, maybe an hour. Yeah, so I had eight hours. A day powered maximizing that. Radio was Howard starts, and now born out of this and the success that you had with Howard and being obviously a juggernaut in the ratings, but also the results that we're getting for the. The name is going to escape me, but you worked with a an account executive who went on to start his own agency Kagan and goes on a he does all Larry Miller's buying several big companies, but in a bit on that. Rich was one of those guys, and again as I said, the best thing happened through all of this. Was We weren't relying on the agencies, so we went out and created business. We created our own business so with Howard at one point. I had thirty eight salespeople. I had a twenty two person retail sales department. Calling on car dealers new business new business calls. And I think that was the success we had with our or other markets weren't able to sell Howard as effectively as we did. It's because we knew. We can't rely on all the agencies to buy. And how it just we have to create the business sure so we were very successful and rich was the key rich had no agencies. He was there for ten years. I think had one agency wingmen cry name of his Asia Asia Agencies Wingmen, yeah, amazing, and he basically from that new version of tirade of that you created built a whole career agency helped a. A career in agency because we understood, we worked with the clients. It was old school radio like when you start in retail radio, you get to know the client. Get the know their business. Get the know what they expect. Get the know their strengths. Help them be successful. That was our whole model. We want to help you. Be Successful and grow your business. From that success. You now get promoted to the DOS for the entire cluster, right? And how did that come about? You've Dan forgiving you right? Dan Is forgiven me because we made a lot of money. Giving me I, everybody's forgiving me because we're making a lot of money yet. And we go through the second big recession. Which is two thousand? Was An eight. Yeah, we go through two thousand eight. I was now two thousand eight. Hits everything by the way the worst year, the worst year and a half for radio ever. The recession and the introduction of PPM yeah. That's what I got caught up in. I was laid off at that point on President Obama's inauguration day now, but through the mid two thousand cake in my FM. We had gone to a point where there was so much refinanced business on the air. I actually got to say no more I think we had like sixteen or seventeen why you would have never worked for me. I as Jack, said the people numerous times Bob. Beat the program director out of me. That was my Jack was my third sales. Because, he went on every sales call. Every sales facing in Jackson great now. Running NBC Sports Radio Really Well, so they come in, and they say hey. Times are really tight thousand. You'll have we got. We got to figure this out. We need somebody. Help US generate sales. You oversee sales for all seven stations I, said perfect know. In you went through at that point, that's US responsibility. You've got the wave Jack Kay rock. Cave WB KNX I mean. There was a stations there. They response from shrimp forgetting one right now now that was it. Seven hundred. And I think at that point. There were multiple market managers going through their correct. There were and what was that we had a big turnover on market managers. Man. How did that affect your day to day? It didn't it. Didn't I mean? Kayla sex was always extremely successful so I kind of. Just reported to the heads of whatever was Ryan, the company at the time, which went from Mel to Farid. You know and Dan was always in there And I think they had confidence that I could get it done, so I didn't really feel the pressure as the market matters were coming, and going were did they have much impact on what you doing or did they kind of steer clear? Don't steered clear. First of all nobody understood Kale sex I was like you know we were like. The Hell is this thing now? I'm not sure you understood. I understood it. I didn't control. But I mean we had Howard then atom into frosty. Id Frank and alike us in the conwy stuck where. That was a six a m to one. A. M.. Firecrackers is a nonstop morning shows nonstop morning shows and all generating tremendous revenue. Loved it. You know people loved it. We you know we were doing. Bar Events with frosty and frank at eleven o'clock in the morning we'd have to three thousand people, and like the for live broadcast like the bar event right now at eleven am bright. When does Howard announce that he's going to satellite two thousand five? And how did that feel? Were you aware it was going to happen? I was talking to his agent. We're negotiations. I was talking to his agent. I think CBS was close to fifty million. They were offering. Oh, my Gosh, and I just for Los Angeles not on all of the the whole thing. By that time it was the whole country got. It got it so I said. I called his agent I said Don. I know this is negotiation. I was very close to him and I said Don I know. This is negotiation. But nobody's going to be close to what we're paying, you I said this is crazy. He goes. You're not even in the ballpark. And I want. That's impossible. I said that that can't be right I said look at his footprint. But it wasn't about his footprint it was about. FCC had really put issues on Howard they were. He was losing stations because of all the fines. People were pulling back. The editing had gotten the you know they had I. Think two editors in New York at that time, so it was, it was a very tough occurred. We pay a lot of money in insurance. Just because of the fines that he wants you know once received that to make sure that all of our content can ride across terrestrial radio stations. We've got to carry a policy and it is not cheap. All, you're right. They quite often reference Howard when trying to negotiate a better rate, and also the Janet Jackson Mariah Justin Timberlake. Exactly exactly so. How did you recover from Howard obviously going and leaving the serious well? There's no recovery. No, I mean literally. There's no recovery. We kept fifty percent of the business. Which I think is beyond extraordinary. Yeah, with Adam. It's beyond explorer. That's one atom I've had it for. Some reason thought that atoms started like. Was He replaced replace shot really tough shoes to fill out impossible. She mets right. David Lee Roth on the east coast of David Lee Roth they did rover and the Midwest. It was, but you can't replace Howard. There is no Howard Stern in. Oh! So was tough and then pm hit. Right about the same time three years later, and our ratings dropped to like fifty percent God. because. We're not a P. P.. You know we were A. Lifestyle radio station. Our listeners weren't gonNA wear. You know a giant beeper on their side in all, and if you remember the early phases, rollouts a PPM by the way Roy Laughlin the one who told me this will kill Kale. Sacks PPM will destroy Kale axe. Because! It was geared to hype profile radio stations. Sure that Shannon told me the same thing played a lot of music. Yeah, that's when I mean. Let's face it. IHEART are clear channel at the time to less is more right. Turn to failure and I think everyone was reacting off of though yeah, the -nology which through everything upside down. So it was a very. Difficult period it was very difficult period. Are you the US at this point I'm the GM and DOS never left off I never let gave up the GM dude. Oh, I realized that nobody could take care of the GM sex and the DOS, cluster. KAYLA sex didn't fit in the Pie. You know when you you look at it. You say okay. We're going to take this and we're going to put it with this. You can't take Kayla sachse Mary it with care. Shirt doesn't work. You can't take Kale a Saxon Mary it with anybody else. It just didn't work. We were the odd man out in that situation. When you obviously have a baby, you can't argue. Argue the sex. Wasn't your baby? Oh, how do you remain neutral when you're going and doing a call for the wave? For instance you have to I, mean I. Just I mean that at least I was smart enough to know that that's what I had to do and I. Mean I was professional enough to understand. Yeah, you know. When the by was women thirty, five, fifty, four and I had the wave. Wave and care and knx can't go in there and force feed, them, K, rock and Kale sex doesn't work. Do you feel like that was ever a perception of that that you played favorites within the building? I don't think so I. Really don't because at that time. My job was the Garner share sure get as much business as we possibly could, and you did. Any can't argue that you didn't do an. An amazing man I mean that was. If you look at how that clusters performed over the year, right churn and market managers people returning I mean it's I think certainly an the can't look past the biggest recession the country has seen it was says down mustache. Yeah, so when do you move from CBS? To I? Guess at that time citadel to go work for free at Kayla Wesson. KABC. About two thousand nine. Mike maybe January something like that for read calls me because we'd always been close. And says. I want you to come over and run KABC Kahlo us and he'd just bought those assets from Disney corrector. ABC had them maybe a year year and a half. Okay, maybe two years something like that. And I was dying to get back to be in control. So, I said to him the same thing. I'll do it, but you gotTA. Let me run the radio stations. You know I love at that time remembered. CBS is very corporate. Share not making decisions to change this to do this. You Know Very Very Corp Zoe's callous x goes to CBS. It changes a lot of very corporate. Yeah, it's still let's do everything but. They never I don't think anybody understood it. Mel Understood it right. I don't think anybody else did in the corporate world other than it was a cash machine guy. Got It, but you had a lot of people looking over your shoulder right right? Okay so. I said to free you. Let me run it. I'll come over there. He goes. Can you fix it I go trust me I can fix it. That's what I do. So. That's when I went to was KABC's a you go in the throes of the recession to KABC? What's two thousand nine? Yeah, that's the throws of the room and it doesn't get much two thousand now i. mean that's a tough time tough very tough time and so walk me through that. What's it like to work for Farid? His another I mean Sonam icon treated me like a king. Really Kazoo Mellon Farid understood one thing. Your job. You got two jobs. You gotTA. Keep the license. And you gotTA. Make a Lotta money. You keep the license and you make a lot of money. You're a hero. No It keep the license. You don't make a lot of money. You're going to get beat up every single day. So. He treated me really well. I I could never say a negative thing about Farid I've been very fortunate to work for really people that treated me great and respected what I did. What's your I I? Mean so you go there and you understand the dynamics of the market that time clear channel has a full cluster CBS has a full cluster. Now you're basically you've got to stay right? What's your on an island? You are what's your game plan attack? Grow! Attack guerrilla marketing do anything and everything we can to disrupt the other guys. Now at this point is at your idea. Are the dodgers already K. dodgers, their their dodgers? Okay, so walk me through that relationship and dealing with the team as big as the dodgers. Phenomenal was a great great i. mean it. It was the glue that held KABC. Together. Because Remember. Our competitor was KFI right. KFI's the the beast that never stops growing. So here we are trying to compete against them, and when I took it over. Don't forget when I took it over. It's Doug McIntyre in the morning. Then it's. Joe Scarborough. Out of New York. then. It's Sean Hannity on Her New York. Then it's. Mark Levin out of Washington. I don't get another local show. Till I think eight, seven or eight o'clock at night, which is Peter told us. So I'm I've got all these indicated show right which are not. I'm not against Kfi. So against John and Ken I'm putting up Mark Levin before trump right away, you know. Trump was in office I would have had powerhouse radio station. This is before trump. Yeah, so I call, and then at night I have not trumpets Obama right? It'd be anymore all right, and then at night I have What's his name? The The Guardian Angel. Oh You know I'm talking about. I do. And I call for read, and I go free because they work. And what do you mean it's not working I got to change this he goes. You can't change it. These are syndicated shows. You know this is not costing us a lot of money by by. These are all big talents I said look. Hannity Works Lavigne works, but I gotta get rid of this other stuff, so I got rid of Joe Scarborough. And tried because again I'm hip shooter I. Tried Frosty Heidi and frank on am radio. That didn't go over well, but it. It was interesting. It was interesting shock. Yeah, they're fans came. No one else came. Off. And then we got rid of. The Guardian Angel Guy at night, and I put another local show in there, but with the dodgers. That was the lifeblood. That's what kept the radio station going and what everybody in the business hated me for? which was the paid programming on the weekend? We made a fortune with that. which honestly in a Lotta ways changed the business to change the business completely? Yeah, and then on Kahlo as you've got a legendary morning show so I go there. As Howard Stern's guy. So mark and Ryan can't be very popular. Right? And Mark and Brian are now working out the last nine months of their contract because they've been told before I. Get there that we're not renewing them. They're working out the last nine months their contract. Wait wide. They've been told that because there were there were making way too much money I. See Susan. Yachting KNOL wasn't negotiation tactic freed was ready to walk. He was just done. Yeah, because he couldn't afford. It was he wasn't gonNA. Lose money. So I go there and I. Bob Buttons the Program Direct. Right and I say Bob. Could you set up a meeting with man and mark and Brian? He goes. Yeah, so I go. I call Bob an hour later ago. Are we doing the meeting he goes. They don't WanNa see you. Wait a minute. I I go. What do you mean? He goes not on your Howard Stern's guy. They have no interest in new Howard. Stern destroyed them. It takes some guts to sound well. They're working on the last night at already been told. We're not renew. We're not renewing you. We're not Renault's you. We're not negotiating sedans. You. Cut It doesn't matter doesn't now? We're not negotiating? So they wouldn't bark wouldn't come to my office Brian. Came to my office mark. wouldn come to my office so I went down to meet with them and I, said look guys I've one job. Here are the only job I have is to renew mark and Brian Without that. We don't have a radio station. And slowly, but surely over the next couple months I won. Their. Trust. And started working with her agent. And negotiating a new contract. But I mean I had to build that trust because they did not trust me. So you, you're working freed on the other side and down. Hey, we need them. I said Free Says Great. Shut it off will let's just give Kale Kale away because without mark and Brian. We don't have a radio station. It's not true. I said No. It is true. I said can hire frosty and frank. They'll come on and do mornings, but they're not going to give you. What mark and Brian can give you right? I said first of all these guys have been under restraints. They weren't doing personal appearances. They were barely doing live reads. They had respected taken everything away from the show. Why did they do that? It was between ABC. And then when at L. came in, they didn't understand how to you know again. The, other great part of being a good general manager is understanding how to mallet manage the talent, which is what Kevin and trip do better than anybody I think in the business. You gotta understand how to manage the talent. They didn't have a GM that understood how to manage the talent. They you know a lot of GM's feel more comfortable sitting in the GM chair. And not getting involved in everything else. That wasn't me. And I think that's probably one of the reasons for your. Your success is the fact that you know how to handle and too. It's almost in a lot of ways. I like in the position to a manager or coach of an NFL team right baseball team I mean you're dealing with gigantic personnel, yeah. He goes personalities. You got a massage it. You got to know how to manage it. So you get them renewed. Get them renewed and went up the gates forum. Start doing a bunch of live appearances, getting them involved, getting them to throw out the first pitch at a dodger, doing the integration that you're supposed to do back into the community big with big talent. Station starts to kick on all four cylinders. Rolling things are going really well. And go into bankruptcy. I'm there maybe a year? A little over a year now sitting, Dell's the first of the company's derive you know obviously after that we saw humulus and clear, and so forth go through it all, but freed gets hay out. Three gets hit i. what's that conversation like free calls me up and says hey look. You're going to be reading a lot of negative things don't worry. We're GONNA. Handle lists. You have complete faith. I just signed you to new contract. Don't worry. You'll be fine, so he's. He's a mench. Yeah, he's another man. And I, said perfect go, and he said trust me. You're going to be taken care of, but we're going to get through this. You know this is simple. When you pay two point, two billion dollars for something recession hits. Markets dropped forty percent in revenue. You know this is the outcome of it right so. We go along, our way. I'm still hiring people hiring talent or moving things. Jack is now come over and running. Kabc for me, let's see brought have brought him over I'm negotiating with the dodgers for a renewal. And Things are rolling along. We come out of bankruptcy. Things are. I thought the best. KAYLA's at its highest billing, and like twenty years happiest ratings and billing KABC's doing well financially, not ratings wise, but financially. We're doing well. And the hostile takeover comes in. By John Lew. So at that point they come in, and basically so is free to willing-seller at that point, or they buy out of bankruptcy. We're out of bankruptcy bankruptcies. You're out, ability okay. I guess when you come out of bankruptcy and I don't understand all the issues beer, but when you come out of bankruptcy. They replace certain board members. Part of the things. I think they're in control of what happens with the company. They can get all their money back or the majority of their money back. That's what they do. The old debt holders. Got It, and so they decide to sell to John Lew. They make a bid two point two billion. And that's it. They come in. And what year is this? Two Thousand Eleven two thousand eleven at the same time, almost two thousand twelve. It's November. Eleven say remember when rush made the Sandra. Fluke. Comments is all around this time of Krakow, and it starts a little earlier gets very was in new. York for a lot of those conversations, and you have a lot of a difficult mentally. Did you have the recession? We're just starting to dig out of that, but you also have a situation where a lot of the agencies now don't want anything to do Iraq. Raid Right which is also continues to be a struggle, even today again. Relying on the on the retail and the block programming. Got It louder money. And I'll so John Lew come in. How does that change? Will. Not Well. Not well for them either. So. Basically they came in. and. They wanted to make changes and they bullet me and I think one hundred and thirty three people in the same day on a hundred and thirty three people. Across the country across the country or the changes? What were their? Their thought process and I think the change was that they had a direction that they wanted to go. And I was a hip shooter. Right and I don't think they like that and I'll. Very Analytical. You can't I got some time with Jonah Lou and. By the way Lou Genius I, agree I think they're both incredibly right. Guys. I think that sometimes John's personality could be a little bit more refrained in. A Bit Jeff Gentler, but I cannot save her second. They're not both in credit about right but whether the The feel I've I. which I respect a lot because I think I'm similar to you. I'm not necessarily as analytical as I should be, and I think you and I are we lead writer gut feeling, but there's something to that. You can't necessarily put that on a spreadsheet. It's not necessarily a metric, but success goes with it and There's no doubt that you've had an unbelievable amount of success following well I'll tell you a quick story. So, Lou came in right after they bought the took over the radio stations and wanted to have a staff meeting and in the staff meeting he made a comment. That they own strategy research, so he'd done radio research markets all over the country top ten markets number, one market number, one hundred market and what he found was. There is absolutely no difference between Tuscaloosa, Alabama and Los Angeles when it came to running radio operating a radio station. It's just different markets, and so after the meeting he came into my office and I, said Lu I appreciate everything you did I believe you're? Great you guys have a vision. I understand that I'll try to perform as best I. can for this vision, but I have to differ with you. I worked in small market radio. There's a major difference between Tuscaloosa and Los Angeles I. Don't think they ever bought that I. Don't think they ever believed that I think a lot of ways. They were cutting edge and a lot of our success to them and I think that they did a lot of things I do think they take more slack than. Than, they probably should. I think they did a lot of things right very very bright, but there's no doubt they did some things wrong to their own admission and to your point town square has built a whole business on. They are completely different. Townsquare purposely stays out of the top fifty markets because it is a different business, it is a different different world. Fascinating, so you leave there, I leave there. You go to work with Norma get to norm. As President of courtside Entertainment Group which we have Dr Drew. Love Line Bill. O'Reilly it's funny. You come into the wild west you go. I. It's like you never left I never laughed. You've got your revolver on your your Your Spurs and ready to go out. And so, what's that like I mean? This is really the first podcast company of its kind. Well. At that time, we were only syndicated radio. All you and I was trying to bring podcasting in. As, a adjunct to our syndicated programming, so I was talking to Frank Creamer who had? A little podcast network going I. Forget the name of it, but he had a podcast network yet about twelve or thirteen shows and I was very familiar with Adam doing his podcast. So I kept telling norm. You know. Maybe we should add some podcasts. It would be great, you know he goes wealth. You can sell it. Anybody can sell it and make money on it. We'll do it, but other than that. I'm not interested Oh. This is crazy I know it is so we then met with Adam to do a feature with Adam okay. syndicated one minute feature. Like Corolla rants. And Adam had no interest in doing it because he wanted to concentrate on his podcast network. I'd keep talking to norm. We were the beauty of that. Year that I was there. was. It was so much developmental stuff that was happening. There was the. Streaming, there was gaming. There was sports east sports or just starting at that time right and. We had meetings with all those people. They all wanted norms impression input. They wanted his by off either him to merge with I'm Bhai into the company do something. So we got to see a lot of different things, so norm kept saying to me find somebody that can sell these podcasts and make money with it, and then we'll get into the business. So? I checked around with a bunch of people and I. Called Eric Weiss and I said Hey do you know anybody that's doing these podcasts that successful selling them? And he goes yeah. I Know Kit Gray should talk the kit gray. So eye contact kit gray. We get together for lunch. He tells me he's got. Like twenty comedians that he's representing a podcast network. It's Bill Burr. It's Bill Maher. It's Adam Corolla it's. I mean just like Marc Maron at the time all the top comedians that we're doing podcasts. So I said, are you making money with it? He goes. Yeah, no, it's great I'm making money you know I get to work out of my house and I sit in the Marino with my dog and I just make the appointments. Go out on them and set up these calls, and it's all great because it's live reads. It's personal endorsements. It's p-1 listeners because they're all. You know fanatical fans of these hosts. So I set up a meeting I said. You know you should really come in and work with us because we could really blow this up a major scale. So I set up a meeting with norm. And Norm obviously woos him and blows away. And we start podcast one. And that becomes the network and what I never saw. which norm saw immediately? Which is why I? Give them all the credit in the world. Norm said this isn't an adjunct to the network. Syndication businesses a little side business. This is Westwood One. All over all over again. This is two hundred three hundred shows that we put a network together. Higher sales people all over the country. And build this giant footprint. And I say nobody saw this but nor. Did you leave because he didn't see the vision. I left. Because after about two or three months norm, said look. You're my radio guy. Is I want you to concentrate and we adjust done a deal with Laura Ingram okay. and. I had to take a hard reflection on my career and say do I want to end my career with? Love Line the Dr Drew One minute. Clinic Bill O'Reilly and Laura Ingram. Not that's not what I WANNA do. So I left at the end of the year. I just said. You know what this doesn't work is not what I WANNA do here in. He said I know you want the shiny new toy. But that's not your stronghold, right? You're strong radio. I can't argue with them and now. And now you're working with Larry Khan right so I laugh because Larry had been tried to hire me for a couple years to come in and run his company Sports USA DO NFL NC double a football and we were getting into podcasting and doing some other sports, Little League world series, triple crown of horse, racing radio terrestrial radio stuff. So. I want to work there. I was two thousand twelve. So, what does it seven years? Yeah, that's fantastic and obviously built a great business. Yeah, you guys have a lot of the NFL game. We doing NFL doubleheader every Sunday college game of the week ballgames. You done sports. Talk Radio, music radio. What's your favorite? Well nothing will ever. Kayla sex? will nothing will ever ever come close to the high I had with Kayla? Ex, it was done dominant radio I mean. It was a life changing radio station and it was something you really created out as it helped. Create was involved on the ground floor. Worked with Howard for fifteen years, it was. I mean there's nothing in my career though. Those fifteen years. It was a license to print money. Back to Larry really quickly, and you look at sports and what you're doing there. Do you feel that that is the best John Ras Farce format goes I. Don't want say the safest, but I guess we'll just use that word when you look at all the disruption from spotify and Pandora and everything else. We have going on in her medium right now. That sports seems to really hold its own. Here's the one thing I will say. As long as there are terrestrial radio. Stay you know radios in cars. And you can listen to a live NFL game and I'll on the radio or a college football game, Alabama versus you know Arkansas or something like that, because we only deal with the top top five conferences, so it's top tier stuff, and and when you get to the NFL. That's the pinnacle of everything in Sports. That's hard to beat now. Do we have competitors? Yes, we have serious. Tune in. Now. The giants are trying to get involved in it, but as long as that radio you know. Is Free accessible. I think it's hard to beat us. Nfl I just I actually earlier today in the latest television ratings has made quite a pop again and last year was off a bit, and it seems to be up again. Which is interesting I think it's the number one sport in the world yeah. I think you're one hundred percent correct. Film in a little bit on what your day to day is now. Are you negotiating with sports teams with station? I don't get involved in that. That's Larry's. You know we have three people do that. That do the contracts and the negotiations with the teams because that's gotten very. Very expensive all this competition has increased the price of doing business I say so. My job basically is managing the sales organizations that work with us. Looking at new opportunities, trying to look at it as I said earlier, we were kicking the tires of the English premier league, soccer, and just trying to find things to match up to our football. Little! League World Series You know triple, crown horse racing things we can do a little league. World series actually got into this year, which was the first time I've ever been into it, but it's really entertaining to watch. It's entertaining to watch, and it's a great again. If I'm a sports station, too, I WANNA put two is screaming at each other about nothing on on the weekends or do I wanna put live sports on. That's been our secret to our successor safe for the family out and were white label, so we can run on ESPN. We can run on Fox. We Have Fox affiliates ESPN affiliates because we don't do don Don Don Don. So that's the beauty of our product, and when we go to somebody in a were on four, hundred, eighty, four hundred plus radio stations across the country, but when we go to somebody, that's what we offer them. You can get live. Morning and afternoon NFL football game, and also basically your weekend. You know your Sunday afternoon is taken care of. Really so greatly appreciate the time. This has just been a pleasure. My pleasure, your knowledge and The the careers just an amazing story and I've learned so much a followed I mean we've become friends over the last few years, but I really followed your career and it's. It's an honor to be able to have this conversation. It's my pleasure. And the fact is I reflect when I listened to something like this. How lucky I've been and I've got I've really been lucky to have experienced what I experienced and the opportunities that are these guys these great? Radio Legends look gave me these opportunities. That's what I'm most thankful for. Bob Moore, thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate it bye pleasure.