16 - Brazil, Bernie, and the Fight Against Fascism (w/ Michael Brooks & Leandro Demori)
Brazil is the fifth largest country in the world by land area and unlike are somewhat sparsely populated neighbor to the north which ranks second incised but thirty eighth and population. It's also the fifth most populous country three. It's the world's ninth largest economy and is home to one of the most important ecosystems on the planet the Amazon rainforest. It's also one of the most racially diverse countries in the world with the largest black population outside of Africa America's number two but democratic truisms are not why American newspapers broke from their relative indifference to international affairs to focus on Brazil last year nor are they why we're talking about Brazil today. The reason Americanized return on Brazil last year was a national election with eerie parallels. The one we went through in two thousand sixteen it resulted in the election of Dire Bolsonaro a man sometimes referred to as the Donald Trump of Brazil. All Sonata has been dubbed the trump of the tropics tropics because of the rhetoric and policies to leader share twenty fourteen he argued with a lawmaker and after pushing her yelled. I would not rape you because you're not worthy of it in a twenty eleven interview with playboy. He said he'd rather his son dying car accident than be gay melt. They've breath these red outcasts will be banished from our homeland. It will be a cleansing never seen in Brazilian history comparison works in some ways but not in others as my guests on this episode Michael Brooks of the Medical Brooke show now and Leandra Demori journalist for the intercept Brazil. We'll discuss in a bit but what is absolutely true is that ultra-nationalism and the anti-democratic influence of oligarchy are far from just American phenomena and across the globe the movement toward oligarchy runs parallel to the growth of authoritarian regimes like Putin in Russia Chee in China Mohammed bin Salman in Saudi Arabia Right Trigo rotate in the Philippines have all Serano in Brazil and victim or bond in Hungary among others these leaders meld corporate is economics with xenophobia and authoritarianism they they redirected popular angle about inequality and declining economic conditions into violent rage against minorities whether they are immigrants racial minorities religious minorities or or the L._G._B._T.. Community and to suppress the set they are cracking down on democracy and Human Rights Global Fascism has been on the rise and the next president of the United States needs is to have a political strategy for how to withstand it and an ideology which supports a global movement to fight back. This is an episode about Brazil but it's also a story about a rising tide of right-wing wing populism across the world from Russia to Brazil India to Poland the Philippines to right here in the United States of America and it's a story about how Bernie Sanders is unique among twenty twenty anti candidates and having a plan to defeat it. This is here the burn a podcast about the people ideas and politics better driving the Bernie Sanders Twenty twenty campaign in the movement to secure identified life for everyone living in this country. My name is Brianna. Joy Gray coming mean to you from campaign headquarters in Washington D._C.. Like so many stories about the rise of right wing extremists the story of Bolsonaro is the story of political corruption and it's the story of how he took advantage of a corrupt state eight and the media to marginalize likely opponent Moolah Dasilva Louise Agnosio Lula da Silva was a two-term president of Brazil who represented the country's more progressive Labor Party Moolah enjoyed sky high approval ratings among among the people have Brazil why well he backed ambitious progressive programs that pulled millions of Brazilians out of poverty Michael Bronx explains you had a party running Brazil from basically from two thousand three two thousand sixteen called the Workers Party and primarily leader of the Workers Party is a guy named Lula Dasilva who I talked quite a bit about on my show and I talk about him a lot for a couple of reasons one because he lifted between twenty and forty million people out of poverty which is an incredible accomplishment in the time that he governed Brazil he also is somebody that as a communicator and I think part of it has to do with just incredible charisma but also really coming from this incredibly really inspiring backgrounds and he grew up illiterate in deep poverty he lost a finger as a young metalworker who was shoeshine boy and he worked and didn't learn to read and writes a later on and worked his way up I as a labor union leader under which was the main sort of force behind getting rid of the Brazilian military dictatorship in the eighties and then on his fourth tribe leave becoming president two thousand three and then being this incredible global success you meant to Matt Lula have pulled twenty to forty million people out of poverty. WHO's not that a little bit about how that was accomplished so he has one program called Balsa Familia which was really at that time of very significant global accomplishment was basically just like it was actually a form of the only condition was children getting immunizations and going to school and then families just got cash transfers that was one significant program and then he just he radically increased food access for families in schools goals and things like that those were key ways then he also you know more broadly? He was an ally of labor unions. He pushed through wage increases. He expanded college access in a really radical way they went on a big building of college construction auctions brie and there was also a lot of corresponding efforts to equalize who is going to college in terms of people's economic and racial backgrounds in Brazil. Meanwhile while Bruno was enjoying extreme popularity eight Bolsonaro have been nursing rather remarkable career unremarkable except for the extent of which had a history of racist and bigoted statements about women members of the L._G._B._T.. Community here's a professional vision mission for thirty years being a congressman in Brazil and he praises Nigger nigger shipping Brazil that we have had in the sixties in seventeen in the eighties so his old politics a haze not a new brand new. He's not posed politic his just did old politicians that we have in Brazil ad for so many times in a new country with democratic waves. We hope that this kind of petition we will disappear and unfortunately now we said they are not disappeared and unfortunately now we say they won't they'll actions. Basically Bolsonaro say's what he want has just like trumping data way fouls Leandra Maury a reporter for the intercept Brazil and outlet which has been an important independent news source reporting on Brazilian politics in two thousand fifteen two thousand sixteen Sonata started to travel traveled around the country to talk to people. He's just like a sponge that absorbed all ding properties that people want to know anyone to say and can't because you know it's racist. Star is my news and allow he has the problems to to say all and stuff and he he's just like the big. A microphone of resilience period is saying things that you can never imagine than someone wanting to tell the eighteen can say say he's. He says that all traces racist misogynist against poor people against indigenous people this the Powell between both trump. They are just like people they you say we are authentic people we are really but we can say what we want and these is what the people in Brazil what I hear. This is a lot of people United States WanNa hear this is the borrow this is the playbook you consumer United States and you can see the same stay the same thing rolling today resume so is it just the bigotry standing in as a proxy for authenticity or is there something else does Boston are also play with that kind of right wing populism that we've seen in some other countries where these kind of promises about as having a movement that uplift S- forgotten people marginalized people things like that yeah yeah the same thing besides trying to takeover the old and Gouden Brazilians of the same stuff that dad trump in United States. I don't know if the coal miners are you know they hold in June United States that you remembered timed and we were good and people love with US okay. Let's try to recover at this is the same is the same discourse that we can here today with most Nile now in some ways the trump comparison sent isn't quite accurate. Bolsonaro was a career politician not a so called outsider like trump. He was a congressman for over a decade and establishment figure for even longer he was a congressman for thirteen years and he's selling an image. He's selling image just like he's just like anti-establishment movement and he's not interested men. He is establishment for ten d thirteen in years but like trump bolsonaro cells bigotry misogyny and intimations of violent as authenticity life trump he targets the most vulnerable and Brazilian society while Romanticizing the good. Title Days that never existed and like trump he marries reactionary politics with an agenda that overwhelmingly favors the one percent but he went to step farther than simply stoking bigoted sentiment he benefited when his likely opponent was imprisoned with Lula's approval rating hovering between the seventies and eighties. It was unlikely that Bolsonaro could have one with bigotry alone enter operation car wash now operation car wash is a five year corruption investigation into Brazil economic and political elite so the <unk> watch an operation led by the public news three and the Federal Police. They did something radical in Brazil. They put big fishes in jail this radical we have never saw that <hes> not just split decision but <hes> managers directors off big big of companies in Brazil and this led people to believe that car wash operation was just like the salvation of the country the end of corruption Brazil has played by high levels of corruption and into the public frustrated with getting exploited by elites. The investigations were embraced as a productive justice driven force and at least judged by the number of high profile officials put in jail it was working is a group of prosecutors is fourteen fourteen prosecutors. They are in good Chiba is a sitting Salva Brazil and they acted with the in partnership with Federal Police so they run in five years. You can imagine O'Brien Meraj has five years. There's they run just like I can't remember fifty or sixty operations you mentioned for five years operations new arrests stories it just like soup Olvera that we're watching in Brazil for five years but operation carwash was not the white might pretended to be an elite to Brazil's two thousand eighteen election Ghulam it clear that he plans to run for president again and polls show that he was favored to win win. That's when he became a target for operation car wash he was at time the most popular position Brazil's seal and he was at time if you if you go to to the Paul's divorce for some bad can wand elections even in the in the first round fighting his both on our arguments anyone so when the prosecutors choose a small KS that they said Lula has received David an apartment because he he was the man that some bribes to people in inside of the lavish auto garage Karachi operation they just accelerated the process they put Lulu Election Process and dad turned scenario the favorite to one donations the car wash prosecutors accused Lula of what Michael Describes as trumped up charges in the summer spring of two thousand thousand sixteen. He was basically rushed into prison in this incredibly quick process were basically they. They said that he took a bribe of an apartment after he was president and I'm trying to keep this a lot of details here. I'm trying to keep as simple as possible. The bottom line was even then was that the conviction rested on plea bargain testimony of one person who'd been given a reduced sentence there was no paperwork indicated that he'd been there there was no nothing to indicate that hidden him and his wife had visited this place other than one time actually look at it so he was put in prison in this incredibly sped up process. I mean Brazil's like a place where particularly people on the elite who have been charged with way more serious things and and with a lot more evidence are still waiting for their trials on appeal. He was put in jail taken out of the presidential race on essentially put in solitary confinement and silenced for the duration the campaign he's remained in solitary confinement ever ever since and until recently was even prevented from speaking to the media meanwhile the judge who put him there Sergio Moro has become Minister of Justice and the administration of Brazil's new far-right president dire false narrow you saw the operation can occur watch going to against all go barges buzz particularly against D._v._d.. The Botulism Adore is the Labor's Party and the leaders of Flavors Party and they did some something like they projected all the corruption a Lula's sugar so today in Brazil you can think about so many Brazilians think that in in the meantime if if you get Lula imprison we are fighting corruption and if Lula eventually can be release it we will see the corruption back so the philosophy behind the car watch operation behind the new moments of far-right in Brazil and behind Wilson honorable so now is a product of economic crisis. <hes> use escalation of corruption political go parsing Brazil and is a predict off elaboration entourage so you can understand how many people in Brazil poor people hoping searching for a hope in any part of these Tory just <music> suing vulnerable Iris. It's you can understand that people are just keeping searching for mint for a hero for Salvation L.. Many have been skeptical of the authenticity of the charges in the motives behind them <hes> for months but recently Leandro and a team of intercept reporters and Brazil reported evidence which confirmed those suspicions the intercept broke this major story basically with all of these leaks telegram text messages on the prosecution team which basically just validated everything that Lula's attorneys and people like me and people like Brazil wire and other kind of independent sources of said which is that of course they were politically aiming at the pizza the Workers Party and they themselves had questioned about the validity of the case they brought against Lula even after they had put him in jail on this incredible I mean a charge that just would never pass any muster Mr in a non politicized court system right that would just be impossible with their most popular politician in jail Lula's party the Workers Party chose former Sao Paulo Mayor Fernando Haddad to run for president but even behind bars ars still spooked car wash investigators. They were upset that the Supreme Brazilians report was giving him the rights. Do an interview from prison. There's text messages of them. Having Freak outs and also frankly clearly being afraid raid this political appeal and other like the whole election could be turned around as he gets one interview from prison we have had access to some having chats and secret conversations and we are working on the Archive Archive and insider time we have all that conversations between persecutors off car watch operation talking to each other's and trying to build a plan to avoid grue- to see that intro interview two-footed symbolic. It was very very political movement. It was not a technical movement is not about justice. Just the ball police in the middle of elections loss arrested in prison in Kitschy itchy. What in the in the police present and <hes> the Supreme Court authorized Lula Ducassi the interview to fully symbolic the main newspaper the most important news flickerings country so ad time the prosecutors the La Bajada persecutors ass we are publishing in intercepted resumed his days? They was just like terrified about Lula considering an interview because as they said in the secret chats that can help to elect Finan dodge that was Louis today and Labor's Party candidate time against both narrow so they operate in secretly. They talk to another public. If you have ministries people they already talking to to Supreme Court judges and a Dan danger of what's not outer is in the middle of campaign and the media unsurprisingly perhaps also played a role aw for so many years media was some kind of official brass off the car wash operation. I mean for so many years journalists they dig God had tons of journalist goes coops from carwash operation without investigating we now talking to SARS just being feed aided by the prosecutors so you can imagine that right now now that helping of course most on auto right because both on is of product off carwash operation to and right now we the new revelations of the zoo. You can't imagine that part of the the mainstream media in Brazil they are with us. They are partners they are looking to the archives searching for new stars and Publishing Stars but some important part of mainstream Zena media including global the main and strong and pardon media company zoo they are even now trying to protect the car wash operation to protect the persecutors to protect the X. Huge and newsroom. The justice will neutralizing incommunicado. The Path was clear for Bolsonaro to win Brazil's presidency enjoying support from outlets like the Wall Street Journal along the way also narrows win. Is that much more frustrating. Reading wouldn't view the Valente Lula's life record and what he means to Brazilians raised and deep poverty working class illiterate until the age of ten La understood in his bones what it meant to be on the losing side of one of the world's most unequal economies listen to early years immersed in Brazil's labor movement which was instrumental and ending the country's decades of military rule in nineteen eighty five Michael attributes part of Lula's success to his power as a communicator cleaner. He's someone who like Bernie talks about the economy and inequality in terms that resonate with a ninety nine percent this is somebody who speaks really viscerally in a really real way to people which has definitely definitely been lacking in the kind of broad centre-left as it's become like kind of like you know a party of like professors and technocrats and a lot of ways and that's great we want everybody and you know obviously there are those of us who have no problem you know talking about ideas and so on but there's also a huge amount to be emphasized for simple clear messages right like even in two thousand eighteen Brazil like Lula before being put in prison they were working with the slogan of make Brazil happy the again which was actually like this really elegant phrase of like why not and he'll say like an interviews look I want. I would use the economy when you get it going than more normal people can go for coffee. They can buy a beer. They can watch soccer then that helps so and so he's basically giving you this like bottom up. Kenzi an argument in terms of any normal person can understand and I think Bernie's agreed communicator in that way as well in terms of Lake just this really clear explanation that obviously tracks with people's experience and puts things that actually just very clear terms so why does this matter to us well back in June burning announced against support for Lula tweeting quote during his presidency Lula da Silva oversaw huge reductions in poverty and remains Brazil's most popular politician I stand with political and social leaders across the globe were calling on Brazil's judiciary to release Lula and all his conviction in speaking out on behalf of Lula Bernie stands out and the Democratic field and it's indicative of what makes his approach a foreign policy both unique and sophisticated compared to other major candidates something even mainstream media outlet have cottoned onto after years of dismissing Bernie as a Foreign Policy Neophyte Michael told me that brings unusual foreign policy background might account for the freshness with which he approaches the subject. It's both because of I think sophistication and a sensitivity about understanding the broader world systems at stake than the other candidates have which in fact do go back I think to being a mayor who still thought about the world built and that is the doorway into foreign policy there these very limited cliches of what makes somebody foreign policy expert in the usually overlap with being wrong consistently about all of the main foreign policies face but one is you know you can be in the Military Surrey and one is you can have some sort of like academic think tank State Department sort of backgrounds and that's that's great. I'm not saying I'm saying we should add to those things and one absolutely valid way of adding to those things somebody who came to politics primarily as an activist who was applying the same metrics that he had about civil rights or poverty to the idea that the United States should not be supporting death squads and Latin American the nineteen eighties for variety of reasons and also somebody who was innovative enough and creative enough to see that he could take a very unique platform to actually forward citizen diplomacy in time that even in the eighties with regards the Soviet Union was incredibly important. You know people kind of joke about even those trips trips to the Soviet Union but what they were. They don't remember maybe they don't read up on was that a big thing that was going on in the eighties was actually a lot of sort of the N._G._O.. Lead citizens to citizen travel between those countries which really was helping de Escalate. What'd obviously been such a destructive conflict in so many ways so I think he comes to in a very different way the other answer that's just more narrow and more linear but it's like look Bernie Sanders went from a rap against him that he wasn't doesn't serious on foreign policy which I never agree with an obviously thought was totally overstated? He was right about the invasion of Iraq he had definitely spoken clearly on some foreign policy issues but it would have been fair to say it wasn't a primary emphasis at times in his career in Congress that would be fair post two thousand sixteen. He hasn't even just we're not talking about putting out memos or going and giving a speech he is the leader and trying to stop what's happening in Yemen which is one of the just great atrocities and horrors of the world today something that the trump administration is actively supporting something that a sanders has led on in a in a completely unparallel way including in terms of pulling together her what on surface looks to be very unlikely coalition. He's been totally clear about Iran to the point where Bernie Sanders was the only member of the United States Senate to vote against Iran sanctions package. That's one of the most important votes yes you can cast and he's voted against some of these military budgets and frankly like that is something along with all of these other areas that I only see sanders being increasingly able and willing to question whether it's the reason we have a housing crisis or the reason why we have such inequality part of that is going to have to be. We can't have budgets like this in terms of the military. We can't have a foreign policy. That's led by that anymore so I think if you look at the pathway that he has to foreign policy up through the work that he's done today and of course I would add the courage to be clear that a leader Lula should not be in prison and then in in fact we should be aligning with and supporting people like that it stands alone and it's also only something that were you know we're going to have to back him a lot on because it goes against so many of the kind of thoughtless cliches that people are used to we hear about quote unquote tough for serious on Foreign Policy Leandro explained that along with other leaders around the world Britain's support for Lula and democratic rights really does matter in Brazil important actually because I presumed so many politicians they are with the government alliance with the government and for other sides so many dishes on the positions they are trying to not involve themselves history in <music> some kind of ways so it's important to be to know that that Bernie and all their positions all the work are falling watt. We're doing and Ford it delivered she of even the League charts depressing Brazil. It's important for for us being people like learning watching us and saying look you must before your constitution Brazilian that we are protected actor right now about our our stars SARS. We have the rights mold in addition to publish that stories these decisions in general countries like presume they are not strong enough so very fortunate to be people like Bernie of Lewke watching us and saying you are doing the job journalists and union to be respected. <music> and Michael agreed that Bernie's the port here is significant for what it shows us about burning the candidate and the leader thing Bernie's doing when he does that. Is He showing you that yes us in general you need to have a candidate who is a courageous enough to criticize the obscene amounts of money that we spend on the military to criticize as he has since the eighties much to the Chagrin of the New York Times apparently the someone who's willing to criticize U._S.. Interference abroad both because it is immoral and also generates all these other side problems as you pointed out in the beginning and so what he's doing when he speaks out for Lula <hes> is something that is also really important. Look if you're just like focused on the issues that you need delivered for in your working to different jobs like Kurt the don't worry about Brazil but it's very distinct that he's talking about like like a form of that same solidarity and ethics that should drive policy United States should be a global impetus and that is you know if I was just speak in general terms about the other candidates you have a bunch of other candidates candidates who were basically just they're pretty much in the same thought process of the sort of traditional foreign policy consensus which has led to so many problems and then maybe others who've been willing to take brave stances on certain certain issues but have not extended that to the idea of like a genuine partnership or solidarity with people from other countries which I think is essential and again just unparalleled in terms of what he brings to the table along with his position on Lula Michael Michael pointed to Bernie's leadership with regard about Iran and Yemen as examples of just how different even unprecedented Sanders Administration's foreign policy would be I would look at that Iran sanctions vote. I think that's an incredibly important vote and I'll just spell it out because I know the kind of obvious answer to it. which was that it was a bundle? It was both sanctions voting against Russia and Iran and I know that there's a lot of feelings about Russia. I have no problem with an example that you know that Senator Sanders talks about Putin's leadership in the context of right-wing authoritarianism. That's correct an appropriate. I think being able to critique and understand a global trends and recognized that you actually still WanNa as an example collaborate on arms control which I would hope. Hope that all <unk> anybody running would wanna do that's a pretty important area but I think that to sit there and take that vote and be the only person in the Democratic Caucus at a time of so much heightened feeling and so much drama and intensity and recognize that also let are frankly relatively symbolic ineffectual sanctions relative to de escalating with Iran when you have an administration committed into tearing up that deal that to me is a clear sign post that he of his Senate colleagues was the only person that passed and I cannot emphasize how catastrophic military engagement with Iran would be in Bernie it seems to be both able to oppose it but also questioned some of the kind of mindless cliches about Iran that could get us into the conflict to begin with and then I I would also put the work in on Yemen. I mean it's one thing to vote the right way on that. It's quite another to lead on that in a way that takes on the Gulf states and are really tangible way and then I would say you know the Lula nothing matters because much more broadly a policy for Latin America that synthesizes stopping all this horrific atrocities in inhumanity at the border with a U._S.. Foreign policy that instigate so much displacement in so much violence wants is essential so I think he has the understanding I think he has the track record and I think that also frankly where his instincts are are also different. You know I mean he's been willing much more quickly than and other candidates to say no. The occupation is not okay right and and so to me this is an area where not only not weaken he's kind of like the slam dunk candidate and in this regard zooming out what informs so many at Bernie's foreign policy positions is an understanding I that just as the forces fighting progressive change in this country are not hindered by borders so too must our movement have an international scope and second that there's a link between the growth and transnational oligarchy and the rise of frightening authoritarian government it gives you a clear ability to aggregate right like in other words if the right wing populous who are not in fact almost never are the actually populace look at trump or Bolsonaro these are pure one percent agendas but they get to play to people's bigotry and xenophobia they get to who pretend that they care about people's real needs whether or not it's safe neighborhoods or economics or whatever and then if the only response is either a really technocratic one that doesn't speak to people in a visceral way and that's why some of the stuff is really just again clarity of communication but maybe and again. I don't necessarily know either. I actually think that there's some people in an central left and the Democratic Party Gu they sort of have the brands they fight against right wing populism when it comes to things like xenophobia but when it comes to the actual record. I don't know how true that is but what you do when you when you have a left argument is one particularly United States. Is You an and elsewhere you definitely can active activate and mobilize the cross-boundary working class coalition. That's real. It's there and it's also people that regardless of how you win. A campaign literally needs to be delivered for and then you also call the bluff on the other side right us they look. You're not actually doing this. I actually do have a plan. I will actually confront Amazon. You can have a little twitter argument with Jeff bezos and do this nonsense but we're going to actually take that company on and we're going to change people's lives as a result of it and then I think in terms of voters than they have a really clear choice right and I think you will get. I don't know how large group but I think it's the geographically significantly placed group of people who fell into the trump thing who will come back and then frankly it also clarifies the boundaries on everything else right because of someone. It's like look. Let's be really clear what the choices does and if you're picking a trump over a sanders then there's no hiding room for what that vote is really about and if that's what the vote is really about the knots obviously were just going to have to win that battle. There's a same dynamic in Brazil right. There is clearly a chunk of people that would've voted for Lou la but then voted for Bolsonaro and I think that like part of what this comes down to is the credibility that people believe leave. You're actually going to do something and then also the just simplicity and clarity of your message and I think that in today's world that's ironically something that actually makes Bernie a charismatic candidate in odd way because it's so clear ear. There's so little bullshit and so to me because I would cause yes. There's race in class and xenophobia gender like those are the things that everybody knows about an a really important all of those things understanding the electorate but I also thanks there's people who are burned out people who are freaked out about the future people where it's just too complicated too toxic. They don't WanNa you know they don't WanNa get into it. We you're joking on my show recently as an example of some people in the electorate like somebody tweeted a response to an Ilan Omar tweet and they said something the effective thank you congresswoman like you and Trae Gowdy or the only people with integrity and Congress okay. How do you work with that? It's like well. Maybe what only getting through is like Ilan Omar's super authentic. She's honest you know like so. I don't WanNA reduce is politics to that but I do think that we can't forget that as well and I think that Bernie is actually carrying that flame really well. I think that he's talking about who is wise doing this what motivates him and then and his this case. It's a seamless transition right. It's not like oh I have this beautiful life story and then like I'll get back to later on what I actually want to do. It's I have this mission and this purpose and it correlates plates. I think if there was a war with Iran it would be an absolute disaster for our country for Iran for the region and for the world will we are saying today is in the midst of the worst humanitarian disaster star on the planet where eighty five thousand children already stopped the death where we fearing imminent famine and perhaps the death of millions of people but we are saying now is we've got to end that war to help the people of Yemen <hes> with food with humanitarian supplies not with more bombs differences that Joe die have our record is Joe voted for that why helped leave the opposition to that which is a total disaster in the long homerun if we are ever going to bring peace that region which has seen so much hatred so much war we are going to have to treat the Palestinian people with respect and dignity it put it simply this movement doesn't stop at our borders and neither should solidarity unfortunately like all of these people like Thomas Friedman of sort of turn these things into cliches but we actually do live in a very interdependent world and even some of the projects and goals we have ourselves in the United States towards redesigning like how society how the economy works as an example for people in a way that would benefit the many not the few which is like what the centers campaign is all about will in certain ways run up against <hes> questions about global trade agreements foreign policy what other countries are doing and whether or not these things can me synchronized or not and you know when you talk about this rise of right-wing populism. I think it is also important to note that you know right now. Unfortunately we're seeing this global rise of right wing populism and in the past in the nineties and early ought there was a global synchronizing of third way governments. Basically you're talking about governments like Bill Clinton's government in the United States. Tony Blair's government in the U._K.. There were also governments at that time in Brazil <hes> Sweden Germany nominee that identified in that way and you know you're basically talking about traditionally center left parties or Labor oriented parties that moved to the right on economics would be a way of super simplifying it and that they had shared heard global projects like they were meeting different capitals together they were trying to coordinate and think through problems together and they're kind of like shared framework so I totally see a world where hopefully in addition to electing sanders. There's a lot of really good democratically oriented left populace or taking power and trying to deliver more broadly for their people and they're thinking together across boundaries solidarity should be a verb and with respect to foreign policy as elsewhere Bernie Sanders is a model for action that did for this week. Let us know Oh you think adhere the burn at Bernie Sanders Dot com or as soon as the tweet with a Hashtag here the burn if you haven't already please take a moment to rate review or like some apple podcasts soundcloud or wherever you're listening as as always transcripts till next time.