Scientists study the coronavirus immunity puzzle
Support for the world comes from hint, fruit, infused water with no calories or sweeteners hint has over twenty five flavors, including watermelon water in stores or delivered from drink, hint, dot, com hint water with a touch of true fruit flavor. I WANNA. Tell you about another show. You might enjoy. Ted. Ex shorts hosted by a Tosa. Lee Ted Tech Shorts will immerse you in surprising knowledge, fresh perspectives and moving stories from some of the most compelling tech's community talks out there. Start each day with short eye, opening ideas on apple, podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen. As be corona, virus spreads across. America, we're asking. How does immunity work and as you estates? Shut things down again? English pugs are reopening with bar owner keeping expectations low now. We're not going to make profit. My, ambition is just to make a contribution towards rainy, and when the bars open tomorrow at six in the morning, the English will behave sensibly right unlikely to be honest. I'm Marco Werman. Also today, new music from the National Band of Djibouti. The musicians lead double lives when they're off duty. They're off work and they're sitting at hanging around jamming. They are not playing national ceremony music. They know how to March formation, and they know how to swing all that and more today. You're on the world. I'm Marco. Werman misses the world. Glad you could make it here. On the start of this holiday weekend typically heading into July Fourth, a lot of us would be on the road already, but if there's been one realization this week, this pandemic is going to be with us for a while SARS covy to that the scientific name for the novel coronavirus. It's already changed American. The world in so many found ways, and yet the disease is still cloaked in a Lotta mystery, front and center in this puzzle, understanding immunity, and how it works as scientists around the globe collect even more clues. The answers are not so straightforward at least not yet as the world's Alana Gordon Explains Sydney Ramirez was already into corona viruses before the pandemic. Her inspiration came from her dad a doctor. He wound up caring for people who came down with the original stars back in two thousand three, when he was traveling with a group in China, he told me stories and they knew that. Why Do Infectious Disease Research? I knew that I work in virology lab. Ramirez is now a doctor herself and variety, the division of infectious diseases and global public health at the University of California San Diego and the nearby La Hoya. Institute for you -nology. When this new coronavirus SARS covy to emerged January, she was ready to jump in one of the important questions that we were trying to figure out is what sort of immunity is protective for SARS covy to so what mechanisms in the body can successfully fight off the virus and what backfires when I think about immunity I just I kind of think about warfare unfortunately and the fact that there's. There's always this arms race where the viruses trying to make you know better weapons, and then the body's trying to make better weapons, and it's sort of a matter of like who wins. Scientists have learned that Starr's Kobe to has a particular way of invading ourselves. The virus has a spike protein on its shell. Ramirez think of that spike as a special key that can then unlock the. The doors to ourselves so basically once inside the cell it hijacks the factory and starts pumping out. You know various pieces of itself, and makes more virus and more virus more virus unusually. What happens is it makes so much. That ends up killing the cell. Our bodies have different weapons and strategies on reserve to try and stop this takeover some macktaz, the general first responder to any kind. Kind of infection. It's kind of a blunt instrument would kind of doesn't know the difference between different viruses, others are more targeted and learn to adapt to a specific virus. Think of these as the Special Forces units, they can include certain antibody proteins that can neutralize a certain virus or t cells, different types of t cells can coordinate an attack on a specific virus or even kill it. Removes began searching for clues to how these responses play out against SARS covy to in the blood samples of a handful of patients patients who had been infected and recovered from mild cases of disease. Part of what we saw. That was really great. Is that we've saw? People made good immune responses both antibody responses in tesol responses to the spike protein. And the reason I say that this is good. News is the fact that the spike proteins the main part of the virus that the vaccines out there are targeting looking at immune response in the lab has limitations these are also small sample sizes, so it gave us the first steps. These first steps are launching scientists on a winding journey. Because here's some of the twists already, some people don't generate strong antibody response, but still seem to survive coronavirus just fine. Ramirez saw in all the samples. She studied that the virus. Certain T cell responses. Could this be a clue that this branch for our body special? Forces leads the successful attack I. Don't think it's black and white worry. DEVRIES researches immunology at Rasmusen Medical Center in the Netherlands debris has been following patients long term and recently worked on a study of samples from patients who were really sick with cove nineteen, the disease caused by SARS covy to some died. He saw those t cell immune responses in the lab from those samples. Samples, too, so that's what we have learned their major knee, so it means that these t-cells Tambi protective, but it could also be some kind of clue at St Cells. Maybe play a role in actually making disease worse at the states. We just don't know that is certainly one of the topics that we need to study further. Sometimes, these special forces can react sometimes their effectiveness depends on timing as in how quickly and robustly they can mobilize. The fires takes hold. Degrees Ramirez and others are also looking for clues about how previous exposures to other current viruses like the common cold might boost the immune response to SARS. covy to. Dr Suzie donaghy now Koren's immunology lab on Cova Nineteen at the University of Oxford in the UK. Her work is independent from the Oxford vaccine trial. I have been humbled so many times it back this fires, and so many things about these fires. have been surprising, Donna. He also thinks t cells could be really important and building up a protective immunity, but why some people get sick and others don't could depend on lots of other factors to. Doctors that are specific to what's happening in the immune responses at the site of infection like the lungs or the site of exposure like the knows, it might be that the all the germs up your nose. That's the microbiomes, other bacteria and viruses that NIP harmlessly up there. They might have an impact on whether this particular virus takes hold. Researchers are also looking for clues to immunity in each differences. What's different about kids? Immune responses compared to adults. And all these efforts, the big looming question is when people do get cove in nineteen and recover. How long will they immune to the disease? The next thing to find out is whether people get significant infection. Again wait. We need to wait and see still donahue and other say all these clues. They're collecting about immunity right now. A really important they can help better shape treatments, vaccine, development, and overall public health response for the World I'm Alana Gordon. Red Light green light those are the signals coming out of London today England will be giving the go-ahead to travelers who want to visit for more than fifty countries and territories Scotland and Wales however have yet to decide on a green or red light. They're skeptical, though about the timing of this move British prime. Minister Bars Johnson was in the hot seeded LBC a call in radio. Show I you know I think that it's. It's right that we should open up cautiously so here's the deal. People travelling to England from fifty nine different countries and territories will no longer have to go into quarantine for two weeks when they arrive. Arrive places on the green light list include Germany. Spain France and Italy as well as Turkey Japan Vietnam, but it's a red light for other places including the United States. We've made a huge effort as a country to get this virus under control, we cannot have reinfection from abroad overall. This marks a big shift for the last month. Anyone coming into the UK. Even citizens were to go and isolation for fourteen days. The change takes effect in a week on July tenth Britain's transportation secretary grant shops top it on the BBC this morning. It does mean that people have the opportunity perhaps to still get a summer holiday inn but. Not GonNa. Pretend to be an easy process. Just because England is giving the green light to travelers from certain countries does not mean those countries, governments are offering the same for example Englanders looking to vacation in France. They're looking at a yellow light, and will be advised to quarantine WANNA go to New Zealand. Nice try that country is not allowing anybody in one more thing you can do in England soon go to the Bar English. English pubs will reopen tomorrow after almost four months of lockdown police are urging people to be calm and be sensible, but with bars opening at six in the morning tomorrow for an occasion that's been dubbed Super Saturday. It's not clear that restrained behavior is on tap. Shall we say Gareth? Kerr is owner of cafe kick pub in Clerkenwell in London do think people are going to be common sensible when you open your doors tomorrow unlikely. To be honest. Really. So why are you opening a hazardous time? If it is as it is time I mean you. GotTa do stepping I think Saturday. In hindsight probably wasn't the wisest they for the opening thoughts. Yeah I mean we've sort of put lots and lots of steps in place you know obviously the public of got to be small, and they have to social distance themselves going to be self reliant, and so I'm hoping on. Everyone's hoping that people are sensible and realized that. That we don't want a second spike, but you never know we'll. How have you actually been preparing for tomorrow? Tables further apart barstools further apart that kind of everything everything. I mean trees with Michelle live when we show it with very low sounds, so that people don't shouts. have football machines Bossa. We kind of fight tie small because they in case the. People shouting. It's everything socially distanced the furniture sexually distance, so I just think that Saturday will be the all die I. think everyone's going to get mad on tomorrow and then I think you'll come down and ill will become sensible when as it should have been how the government probably intended it to be. How many people will you go into your at once and how you're going to keep tabs on that? Yeah, well. Well we'RE GONNA. Manage it from the front so that when I mean we've. We've put a a boss of Ella. Bar The the entrance, so we're going to so from that always street, but we also control the entry system. We have to take their name and details for track and trace, and then we. We just ask them to the table. There's no they don't have to stand at the bar. We've considered a law. To think about it. You know we're ready for the detail. You just mentioned though that you'll have to contact details of all the customers, so officials can contact them in the event of somebody testing positive. Are you going to do that? Yeah, yeah, we have to yeah. Yeah, no, that's all of the guidance yet. I mean that's GonNa make a very different experience I imagine it's going to be a different experience and. The public have to understand that this is a different time, and in order for them to be given this freedom, it comes with conditions, so a lot of England decided not to reopen tomorrow. They felt was soon. And also it's you know third choice. You decided to go ahead. Are you nervous about decision? I'm not that nervous. Because a lot of thought into A, we're lucky in into geographically on the way up. As we were market street as a pedestrian streets is a one entrance spa. We're able to control very very well internally. And externally. We've got to be of extra security. You know we're GONNA. Do it as well as anyone would do it. Gareth you're a businessman can make a profit. given that the numbers you can have in. Your bar will be limited. Chance. Now, we're not gonNA might profit. Ambition is just to make a positive contribution towards rent. So if I cover the stuff cost, and like any form of contribution towards Raines I'm in a better position than I was the day before yesterday. It? Really is a different time. I saw that there were police officers attacked in London last week after trying to break up an unlawful gathering. Are you concerned? The openings could start, and then there's a new surge, and then you'll be shut again. The I definitely. I mean it's not that I use knocks have a day to start it. Yet I mean absolutely it's possible. I mean I'm very experienced in what I do in terms of you know the environment I. Work in, so I you know all. Control it as well as I can, and I see trouble before trouble happened, so he's kind of is just being aware and being very hyper vigilant on on in terms of everything, so I'm hoping it goes issue us. Spoken like a good publican. Gareth, her owner of cafe kick pub in Clerkenwell in London. Good Luck Tomorrow I'm glad you'll be able to at least a taste of the good old days. Thank you very much? The pandemic has been stressful. Even people lucky enough to keep their jobs through all this have been feeling the pressure. That's why a town in Nova Scotia decided. Try something kind of radical to improve the work life balance. There were able to deal with those challenges a little bit easier, and they seem to be happy. You're at work. The story of that pandemic workplace experiment just ahead. You're listening to the world. I'm Marco. Werman, this is the world for many of you. Today's the start of a three day weekend. But what if that were the case? Every weekend sounds almost too utopian to be true. The four day workweek has been talked about for decades, but never really caught on the coronavirus pandemic overs getting a lot of people to rethink the way they work. One municipality northeastern Canada has even started to test out the four day workweek Anita. Has the story, guys. Borough County is on the northeastern side of Nova Scotia it's a rural area with a population of about five thousand. Municipal employees have always worked the traditional Monday to Friday five day week, but that changed in the corona lockdown began in March. Everybody was dealing with added stresses because of Covid Mary Carroll is the CEO of municipal government in guys borough in order to keep essential workers healthy. He says the municipality decided to be flexible about time off. They're able to deal with those challenges a little bit easier and they seem to be They were happier at work. Carroll says the staff didn't miss a beat. He put that down to a better. Better work life balance. So when the municipality reopened a couple of weeks ago, ditched tradition and the new four day week became official. People do have about understand. They're pretty happy having that extra day off. That's no surprise to Erica Carlton, who studies organizational behavior at the University of the schedule one. There is a a theory, called the happy productive worker hypothesis according to that theory, happier workers are more productive workers and one thing that makes them happy is working four days per week. They have more time away from work to recover from work. So that when they go back to work, they actually are better at doing their jobs. Companies around the world have tested and proven this idea just last year. Microsoft Japan tried out a four day WORKWEEK for the entire month of August. They found that workers were nearly forty percent more productive. British companies that have tried it say. Most of their staff was less stressed and took fewer sick days. With the four day week has never really been taken all that seriously, and until the pandemic happened Graham, Barlow, he understood why it does present a lot of scheduling, challenges and kind of generally fear. Barlow is the chief executive of a Tech Company based in Ottawa, called either soft. It's about to start testing its own version of a four day workweek. When the idea came up Barlow says his. His first thought was what happens if a crisis comes up what happens if you need to be on call? But when Barlow's team crunch the data, they found these sorts of crises almost never happen now. Employees will work remotely at least until next January and starting next week. He says the office will be closed on Fridays. There's some weird psychological barriers that people need to try and break through. That we have an opportunity right now to rethink work and rethink how companies are run and organized in guys, Borough Nova Scotia. Other employers in the area are keeping a close eye on the municipality's for day workweek Experiment Ingrid Nickerson runs the local co OP. Talking about it on the news I think How could we do that here? The grocery store? She says she's not sure if it could work, but she can see the benefits. Her husband, a mechanic at a nearby Corey recently convinced his boss to let him work compressed four day week now. If you're a homeowner, there's always stuff to do. There's always gonNA be mode and. Then, he's home to cook my supper to at least two nights a week. But, I'm working. That's a win win. Guys Borough CEO Berry, Carol tells me it's probably time to do things a little differently. After the four day workweek pilot project gets going. He's planning to bring in a team to assess if his staffers both healthier and more productive for the world I'm Anita. A landslide at a jade mine in northern. Myanmar has killed at least one hundred seventy people with more feared dead search and rescue efforts continued for a second day today authorities say a pile of mine waste slid into a lake after heavy rains that sent a wave of mud and water that buried dozens of people. In a video from the scene, a greenish wave of water floods down a hillside into a valley below workers who are not visible in the frame, or further down the hillside, fleeing for their laws Paul, Donna, Whitson, global witness and environmental and Human Rights Advocacy Group. He joins us from Washington I. It's jaw-dropping This Video Paul. It's hard to tell, but this seems really big. In the waves that resulted from this hillside of waste are enormous. It's scary to watch what happened. How common are these incidents? Unfortunately all too common we've seen. These types of incidents happened over the last several years with scores of miners dying results. My understanding is that the situation. Situation in this case is even worse than the mining. These were informal workers. Scavenging mining waste left behind by a larger mining company. Can you explain how this all works? So mining companies are granted licences to operate mines, and what happens is as they are digging out the stone where the data's is located, they're dumping the waste into these huge files which building building built into mountains, waste and you have tens to hundreds of thousands of people in former miners they're known locally as I must say now these informal miners are often Meiningen Gary perilous conditions with no protection and these rock piles can become unstable, and it's this like today will then have. The leader of Myanmar's government on songs CI pledged to clean up the industry when she assumed power back in two thousand sixteen. What is Mars? Government doing to regulate these mining operations? What's changed since Unsung Suci made that pledge well when the government took power on the first thing that they did to address, these issues was to suspend the issuance of new license or extension of existing licenses in an attempt to gain control. Control over a sector and to begin a reform process. Unfortunately, the fundamental problem in the Germany area is that there is no rule of law. The area is controlled by armed groups. Ofa Myanmar, military, as well as powerful ethnic armed groups and government back. Militias are all extorting minors illegally taxing you really have a lawless situation that despite the government's efforts to reform, the regulatory framework have not addressed some of the fundamental issues. UNSOWN SUCI commented on this disaster. She says joblessness is to blame, but doesn't sound like this is the new development as she's implying as we have seen an increase in dangerous mining practices since the licensing suspension, one of the prime reasons being as licenses are set to expire, companies are mining as fast as possible or when their licenses to expire, though then often partner up with companies still have active licenses and mine as fast as possible in those sites, so that creates a very dangerous condition. unsung searching is right that the informal minors they say are often from impoverished communities who come to the jade minds of. In Kitchen, state to try to strike it rich, unfortunately, that's a very rare occurrence and more commonly monitors. We'll get hooked on methamphetamine and other drugs and will not be able to survive. The experience of the jade industry is a driver of conflict. There is no doubt about it in the revenues that it earns to conflict. Actors are key in their ability to sustain their activities, so there's no doubt that there is a real linked to conflict in Jay. Paul Donna with me and Mark Campaign leader at Global Witness speaking with us from Washington. Thank you very much, thank you. Did you miss something on the world this week. Well, you may never know unless you subscribe to the world's latest edition podcast. Take us with you wherever you go this weekend. Stay current with all of our coverage. Find us in your favorite podcast APP or at the world dot org slash podcast. You're listening to the world. Anyone in Hong Kong. Speaking up against Chinese rule might WANNA think again. A new national security law went into effect this week. My advice of courses to stay well away from. Don't pass the law simply because the consequences are are going to be great that stores coming right up here on the world. I'm Marco Werman. This is the world where a CO production of W. G. B. H. BOSTON NPR ex China move quickly this week to implement a harsh new security law in Hong Kong critics say the law destroys the One Country Two systems concept that Beijing agreed to a nineteen hundred seven. That's when Great Britain handed Hong. Kong over to China. Free speech has long been a core value in the semi-autonomous territory, but as the world's. Patrick win reports. The new security law means there are now of things you just can't say anymore in Hong Kong, unless you WanNa risk going to prison. Liberate Hong Kong shouting the Revolution of our times. Everyone in Hong Kong has heard this. It's the go-to chant for this Popular Movement to. Liberate Hong Kong at least from Beijing's authoritarian rules, but wait liberate Hong Kong, which is part of China is saying that against the law. Here's Diamond Yung a Hong Kong legal scholar. You use these terms. It might well be regarded as an intention to succeed yet. Hong Kong officials just put out a warning that said exactly that an under this new security law imposed by China's Communist. Party, getting found guilty of inciting secession is really bad. You could get hit with a minimum three year prison term. Case, if they think you're really plotting for independence, even peacefully ten years to life in prison, this is rather shocking for us to see that our courts are going to have to in very serious cases that order a minimum sense of ten years imprisonment right and their hands are bound regardless of the circumstances. Here's how Hong Kong's beijing-backed leader. Carrie Lam describes the law then just nation aims to prevent carp and punish acts of the station subversion of state power. Power characteristic to the these and collusion with foreign or external forces. Okay, secession terrorism. Most countries try to stop that, but this new law. It's not really about stopping rebels with bombs. It targets people for having the wrong opinion. If the government decides, you are inciting secession. Young says you're in big trouble. Here's Carrie Lam again. Saying that the law will go after protesters who have radicalized young people to desecrate and burn the national flag vandalized the national anthem okay. Of things here, burning China's flag, they really hate that and vandalizing the national anthem. That seems to mean something like this. Hong Kong protesters dislike of China is so strong that they wrote this song Hong Kong anthem, which they seeing instead of China's national anthem. Now that may be punishable under this law again here's attorney Simon. Young where you might get caught of courses incitement. Right singing a song like that, is it capable of inciting someone to the committing the crime of secession could be, he says the problem is, you can say I. Don't want secession. I just want free elections, but again the final arbiter might be Communist Party. They won't catch everyone, but it's risky. Oh. My advice of course is to stay well away from it. Don't test the law simply because the consequences are going to be great now, a fringe group of protesters, they sometimes seeing a different anthem on the rob pass. Does that amount to the crime of collusion with foreign powers. possibly. Some Hongkongers will drape themselves in US flags and ask for support from politicians, and sometimes it works. The law is a brutal sweeping crackdown against the people of Hong. Kong intended to destroy the freedoms. They were promised, but no matter what Nancy Pelosi Says Carrie. Lam is making it clear that there's a red line if Hongkongers invite foreign governments to interfere in Hong Kong's affairs or even to impose sanctions on Hong Kong, no central government could turn a blind eye to such threats to sovereignty meaning. If you say Hey America, please sanction China. They can definitely get you for that. Most of these national security crimes will be handled in Hong Kong by Hong Kong courts under guidance from Beijing, but if Chinese officials really don't like someone, they can decide to prosecute them in mainland China again you're Simon Young. Will someone just be arrested the night and whisked away across the border in a matter of a couple of hours We don't know that there's a lot of uncertainty there. That's why it's a bit scary. Despite the new law, some Hongkongers are still going out. Protester police arrested more than four hundred people this week. Many Hongkongers are frantically deleting tweets deleting messages on their phone, and by the way. If you've gone online to say anything that might be construed as promoting Hong Kong independence. Be careful about visiting. You also may have incited a Hong Konger to rise up if you tweeted. That is a message sent to the whole world basically, and we know that this applies extra-territorially to anyone anyone. The law is very clear that everyone on earth is subject to it, and if you come to Hong Kong, you can face arrest to for the world. I'm Patrick win. In Ethiopia, the killing of popular musician, a Chandan Desa has triggered widespread protests across the country this week. More than eighty people have died, and Desa was a powerful political voice for the Oromo ethnic group. His death earlier this week is just the latest in nearly a year of troubling developments in Ethiopia and have become a rallying cry for the opposition to speak out against Prime, minister. Minister IBM ID. Ida Sue Russia to is a fellow at the brookings. Institution joins us from Washington. Let's start with the death of the singer a childhood Desa it's drawn the attention of the world to wider problems, Anythi Opio. Why did indesit killing spark such huge protests, but also seen as a symbol of resistance against oppression among the are most one of the largest ethnic groups it. So he's days him still have longer than frustrated. A lost people on the clash between communities on the with security forces us a song so very hunting unifying normal people. Protest started in two thousand fifteen protests actually help it bringing up primary yarmuth off his senior slater into an eighteen songs. You came on anthem for the protesters which help galvanized the movement. So That's interesting. The Oromo people actually had a big hand in bringing IBM it to power. So, what are their grievances today? So the demands of the people are many some of them are shared by other people on some others are not wanting. Major point is on economic issue, opportunities immediate in two thousand fifteen. Or more live around these Saba and the I was going so radical transformation of a few case. Or mostly displaced by our government many results, recieving sufficient compensation, but also our playing role as well because onto very simply what is called freedom was quite surprised to European. There was not a presentation there, nope. non automating groups seem to be dominating landscape on. There are also historical reasons. Created a sense of injustice reinforce existing become political partners. So in addition to Oromo people helping Prime Minister Ahmed, be elected, abiomed bothers, also Ohio. So why hasn't the Prime Minister Been Able to address? The concerns of these people are indeed are Yemenite Advice Lozano oral a has been part of or party so I probably tried to. The coast of considering Oracle's icon reasons why he might have hobbies been successful while these ads on the reasons, complex and time taken. If you take the because of economic inequality for example. Breaking inclusive oldest is summed up following them. Suit takes a lot of time, but a hobby has been in power for about two years. Secondly second is also. The county, some of your. Own! Clash against the positive people or almost dimond greater representation greater power in south about. This also fear against Jim. How is the government reacting to the unrest this week? I'll be has been reluctant about taking cover makers onto these time around actually gone as their extreme in to convert radical measures, including detaining major opposing politicians, also a closed down a lot of TV channels manage them around by whole chain parties of different ethnic groups. Has Share of the Internet's not to communicate by twitter on has the task from the local voices, so this changes are more radical passed on its burkinshaw more. Right and that is a change that we've seen this past week and we'll have to see it against the backdrop of other deeply entrenched in Ethiopia If we go back to last fall, the international community celebrated the Prime Minister with Bell Peace, prize, and since then attempted coup journalists arrested the Internet shutdown repeatedly this week, just the latest, and now this unrest with the singer popular with the people killed I mean just what's going on? Can you help us understand it? I mean it's your is going through a radical. Tremendous. Challenge on if you remember at the time of hobby coming to. going on a lot of displacement mental. It was happening was no stop. Not many people also died in the process. So this to me looks like racial. Stop of change on. You can only hope Dialogue and openness and discussions inks will log settle down. I do a Lotta to global economy and Development Fellow at the Brookings Institution. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. In western China, nonstop surveillance and mass detention are still the norm for hundreds of thousands of weavers. Beijing's crackdown on the Muslim ethnic minority began several years ago, but recent studies show that the Chinese government is also trying to systematically reduce the birth rates of its weaker population. How that's happening through force, birth, control and sterilization in some areas with a high wiegert population birth rates dropped by more than sixty percent from two thousand, fifteen to twenty, eighteen to give some context is University of Michigan Professor Alexandra Stern. She Studies History Culture and reproductive rights. What stands out to you in these reports coming from Xinjiang? On the one hand there are similarities with other instances of sterilization, abuse and state run campaigns for reproductive control. For example there are similarities with the Fujimori led sterilization campaigns in Peru in the late twentieth century, and other also resonances with the forced sterilizations that occurred in the United States as recently as twenty ten. What stands out though about what's happening with the wheat? Ours is the multipronged reproductive control that the state is implementing with encompasses forced abortions sterilizations. Ud's and other forms of birth control all connected to what appears to be massive detainment and incarceration, so there's kind of multiple layers of human rights abuses. China's government statistics the state documents and interviews with detainees show that this is a carefully crafted campaign against workers, and what's the scale of this? This scale is monumental. I mean in terms of both a broader history of four sterilization and reproductive injustice. And in terms of being campaign that has a strong component of Islamaphobia and on his part of a nation building project bits significant both internationally, and also in the context of China, which has a long history of engaging in population control projects on its majority and minority populations. You mentioned the various measures that are being used like four sterilization and abortion. So what are the long term health consequences of this on the people, obviously mostly women who are subjected to it. Unfortunately I don't have much information on some of the clinical aftermaths of these procedures. However, we can say that it's very unlikely that any of these women are being tracked to look at post operative outcomes or that they are being given anything. You know that we would call 'em systematic quality healthcare, so that's one issue is that reproductive-health always needs to be incorporated into broader. Health, so, that doesn't appear to be happening, and then finally there is the mental health component of this, which is one of the aspects of sterilization abuse. That I've studied in the US context where women who are forced to undergo sterilization experience. You know really unpleasant mixture of shame and regrets and fear and anxiety and I cannot imagine that some of the women who've been subjected to this and in northern China are in the same circumstances. Generally Alexander. Would you qualify reproductive control of a minority population genocide? And what would you say about in this particular case? Well if we look at the international legal definition of genocide as an attempt to significantly reduce or stop the possibility of procreation of a particular population than it does meet that criteria, this is a concerted effort to control and to reduce the population of racial and religious minority in significant numbers. Does the UN or the International Criminal Court? Have any authority over this. I'm not sure what legal authority they have. In the past similar instances of sterilization abuse have resulted in cases being brought to international courts such as in the case of Peru where a case was brought before the Inter American court and I would suspect something similar is underway with reproductive rights, advocates, international NGOs and other entities that are representing this marginalized population in northern China, and certainly this evidence will be really instrumental in building a case to demonstrate how these abuses are. Alexandra Stern Studies history culture and reproductive rights at the University of Michigan. Thank you very much for being with us. Thank you. If you're feeling now about packing up grabbing your passport and traveling abroad. You're not alone. One of Taiwan's airports has an innovative remedy for what ails you. Song Airport in Taipei received sixty eager travellers on Thursday for a half day. Fake travel experience. To Cairo houses. These, intrepid daytrippers showed up to check in. They went through passport, control and security taking selfies along the way as you do. Then they boarded a China Airlines, a three thirty passenger jet their destination nowhere. They just sat there on the tarmac. Enjoy the view of the jetway and then deplaned. The people in this little group are the lucky ones. Though close to seven thousand wannabe international travelers applied to take part in the trip. Trip to nowhere the experience is being offered by the airport to show off the renovations and health prevention measures taken to protect travelers Taiwan. Lockdown borders in March due to concerns over the coronavirus pandemic, it has reported fewer than five hundred cases in seven deaths, domestic travel in Taiwan is booming right now, but for people craving international travel to more groups of lucky winners will have their mock travel experience in the coming days. The Republic of Djibouti is easy to find on a map. Go to the northeast corner of Africa, it Tucks into Ethiopia. Right on the Gulf of Aden, facing the Arabian Peninsula Djibouti is also a neighbor of Somalia, and was once known as French Somaliland, the country independence from France forty three years ago, but only now in twenty twenty has abandoned in Djibouti recorded and released music for a global audience. If you know the music of the eastern corner of Africa, you may hear some similarities here, but the album points to a genre that is really its own thing. The sound Djiboutians can claim their own. The album is called the dancing. Devils of Djibouti Vicks Mahoney Co produced the record. He's also the founder of Austin. NATO records the label that released it. Vic joins us from Bangkok. Thanks for being with us to the first record ever to come out of Djibouti. Really Yeah, that's actually the case. Because if you look boots, very young country got its independence in nineteen, seventy seven, and they've been governed largely by one party since and that party believed for various reasons being a young country that music should fall under the domain of the state. It should be a public. And so from independence, until now it's really been only the government and the state, and all the cultural state institutions that have finance supported and propped up music, and if you wanted to record music in Djibouti there was only one studio you could do it, which was at the National Radio's studio and the entirety of Djibouti's. Entire recorded output of music over these past forty three years is just sitting in the Djibouti National Radio Archives. It's never been. Packaged for commercial global release so just to be clear. The dancing devils of booty. This is a new recording. This is not archive material. No it's not. They are a national ban. They are the national radio band, but their primary job is to perform for dignitaries when they visit. They perform when they're walking down the stairs. When they arrive at the airport they perform a presidential ceremonies cultural holidays. They're very much the national band all star Band, that is a mix of the best older, legendary, very beloved musicians, as well as new young talent that they've been able to Scout, but no, it's not an archival recording, although they draw greatly from the recordings that are sitting in that archive. I gotta stay for the first record ever from Djibouti it's like an instant classic. It's just a wonderful group. Great Sound. They don't sound like a formal band playing. You know presidential ceremonies and stuff. That's their on duty job. That's the job that they're paid for, but you know. When we came across them, they were just casually jamming a when we came across them in two thousand sixteen, and when we were introduced to them, they were introduced as the national ceremony band, and we were expecting something of a national anthem, coarser orchestra something of that nature, but very quickly realized that when they're off duty off work, and they're sitting and hanging around and jamming. They are not playing national ceremony music. They are doing. What they do best, which is taking you know the essence of duties, calls and politics, musical sound, and just reviving and modernizing it and adding their own lovely touch tool. Only. One I mentioned in introducing you that. The music of Djibouti is influenced by the music of neighboring Somalia but there's a lot more to this music than Djibouti's neighbor is in there. Yes for sure I mean Djibouti. People have to understand have been on has has historically been on a very strategic trade route. It's partially why the United States amongst other big powers have military bases there because so much trade passes through Djibouti. And you know that trade has been going on for centuries and cultures from Asia from the middle. East from elsewhere of all had to pass through there. If you WANNA move anything from Asia to Europe you have to or vice versa you have to pass. The straight that Djibouti sits on, so they've been influenced by a great deal of cultures. East and West but also in their immediate independence era when the national radio was. The sole broadcaster there were three genres of music in particular that really inspired the band and you can hear all of these. The guitarist who plays those offbeat licks? He was telling us how much he grew up. Listening to Jamaican reggae the saxophone is who is really the star of the band. He grew up on a steady diet of American jazz and he would always point to the Harlem. Jazz era is the period of infatuation that he was. that. He studied and grew up with and the singers. They spoke greatly about India's influence on on Djibouti the influence of Bollywood, and and the vocal style of Bollywood that they would listen to that they would learn from to be able to adapt and. Know diversify their vocal repertoire so. Djibouti might seem like a small country on the fringes, but for very long time it's really been at the center of so much cultural. Mixing and so much of You know it's been so central to so much. It's been happening in the world. Pope. So Vic with travel tours and things more or less still because of the pandemic. What is it like releasing a debut album with this kind of profile in the midst of a pandemic, and are we going to be hearing more music from Djibouti? Yes for sure. No, it's. It's a sad tale because you know we. The idea was to release them, and then have them touring by the summer, but of course that was not. That's not possible anymore. I mean we're still aiming for December. That might be optimistic. We hope things get better. We want more music from Djibouti to come out. You know the government authorities who have been. Monitoring released are very happy with the response. So you know, everyone's behind more music coming out of the country, but there's more important things. I think right now than touring but I hope one day we're back to concerts and live shows and being shoulder to shoulder enjoying music. Yeah, I do too hope we can see the ban live sometime in the near future. That'd be great. vicks Mahoney co-produce the new album. The dancing devils of Djibouti by group Rtd what great stuff and that's going to do it as we kick off our July fourth weekend. We even know anymore facility again anyway on turning the weekend into a vacation, so I'll see you all in a couple of weeks. Carol Hills will be with you in the meantime. World comes to you from the non and Bill Harra studio at W., G. B. H. in Boston I'm Marco Werman and stay safe. Stay strong. Thanks for making it here today. Lose. Ex.