Will Progressive Populism Save The Democratic Party?
What is going to work for the Democratic Party work in the sense of getting more voters to choose the color blue and then stay there beyond the two thousand eighteen midterms all the way into twenty twenty. Well, some say that the Democrats need to swing more to the left to the kinds of ideas and promises that under the rubric of progressive populism set the party up standing for game changing policies like Medicare for all, or tuition free public education or guaranteed federal jobs program. But hold on others, say including a lot of Democrats, those promises that cannot possibly or reasonably be kept. And they may sound so radical to so many that they will push more voters away than they will pull in better. They say to let Dem's stay close to the center and let the Republicans look like the outliers who is right. Well, let's find out because we think this has the makings of a debate, yes or no to this statement, progressive populism will save the democratic. Thirty. I'm John donvan stand between two teams of two thinkers on this topic who will argue for and against that resolution. As always our debate will go in three rounds and then our live audience here at the Cape playhouse at hunter college in New York City will vote to choose the winner. And if all goes, well, civil discourse will also win. Our resolution is progressive populism. We'll save the Democratic Party. We have one team arguing for that resolution. Let's meet them starting with welcome. Corinne jump hair. Corinne welcome to intelligence squared. US you are senior advisor and national spokesperson for move on dot org. You're also a lecturer at Columbia's school of international and public affairs before that you're in the White House under President Obama. You worked on both of his presidential campaigns. You are campaign manager for the ACLU's initiative on reproductive freedom. And most recently, the deputy campaign manager for Martineau Molly for president. That is a lot of political experience. You have credited your career and your success to your parents, AB lie. Why is that. My parents are from Haiti, they are immigrants. They came here decades ago at the time. Haiti was a dictatorship and they wanted the American dream. They had heard about the American dream. And so they ended up here in New York City grew up in New York, and they've worked so hard and their heart and determination their love for this country and the country where they were born really gave me the fuel to do everything that I've done. And because of them, I still continue the work that I do through move on here. Your partner is Jeff Weaver, Jeff, welcome to intelligence squared. You are longtime adviser to Senator Bernie Sanders. When he ran for president in two thousand sixteen you were his campaign manager. You also manage Senate election campaign in two thousand and six. You are the author of new book called how Bernie one inside the revolution that's taking back our country and where we go from here, came out in may Jeff, Bernie didn't win. So what do you mean when you say he won? Well, did win. If you look Medicare for all. Now supported by eighty percent of Democrats and fifty two percent of Republicans. The minimum wage is being raised, fifteen dollars all over this country. People are talking about free college, free tuition of public colleges and universities, and we're having a debate like this tonight and this is a testament to how Bernie one. Thank you very much, Jeff Weaver. Again, resolution is progressive. Populism will save the Democratic Party. We have two debaters arguing against it, please welcome. Jonathan Cowan. John, you have over twenty five years of experience at senior levels of politics and government, your democratic press secretary in congress. You were chief of staff at the department of housing and urban development during the Clinton administration you're here tonight. Moe, specifically though, because you're the co, founder and president of a moderate democratic think tank called third way. Tell the moderator, what moderate means to. Moderate democrat to me, means a commitment to bold modern ideas and a willingness and a conviction to think outside the blue bubble. Thank you. John count. And you also have a partner in this debate. Steven Rattner relate intimate, please welcome. Steven Rattner. Welcome back to intelligence squared. You've debated with us before. It's wonderful to have you back. You are chairman and CEO of Willett advisors and economic analyst for MSNBC. You also have a lot of experience in politics. You were counselor to the secretary of the treasury President Obama's cars. Are you defended the motion. Last time you were with us Obama's economic policies are working effectively. That was back in two thousand and nine, nine years ago. So under President Trump are we still feeling the effects of Obama's policies. So interesting to think back to two thousand and nine and the idea that that was actually a debatable subject because I think the last nine years would eliminate any debate as to whether his policies were affective, and if you need any proof of that, Donald Trump is trying to take credit for it pretty much every day. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Steven Rattner, and the team arguing against the motion. Let's move onto debate. Debate begins with around one. Those are opening statements by each debater in turn speaking. I four, the motion progressive populism. We'll say the Democratic Party here is Jeff Weaver senior political adviser to Senator Bernie Sanders. Ladies and gentlemen, Jeff Weaver. Every day. We are reminded that in many ways, our country is on the edge of a knife and we can slide either way. I think all of us recognize the great harm that Trump is doing this country that type of hateful rhetoric he's injecting into our country, and the way he is changing the mindset of so many people in this country toward a more divisive mentality. We are confronting something at our allies confronted in western Europe in the nineteen thirties in Europe, and they failed in their attempts to strike down nationalism and then a phobia and racism and we cannot afford to fail. What does that mean? That means we have got to galvanize the American people, the grassroots, the American people. We've got to unify the American people and create a country that has Bernie says that government and economy that works for everyone. I think you will see that not only is the sort of neo-liberal corporate is view incapable of confronting and defeating Trump. But in many ways is responsible for its rise in this country are great party that modern Democratic Party was born in the crucible of the new. Deal FDR came into power at a time of great economic calamity as all of, you know, it was a worldwide depression and against great opposition from Republicans from business interests. And frankly, for many inside the Democratic Party put together a coalition created social security created worker's rights created dominance by democratic politics in this country for decades. This grand new deal coalition and our job is to rebuild that grand coalition. This cannot be a party of only upper middle income people of only well-to-do suburbanites. This has got to be a party that represents also working class people and marginalized communities and what those people understand that we have big problems in this country, and we need bold solutions and the solutions that are being offered by people in this progressive populist camp or not unrealistic or undoable. If we have the political will live on the richest country in the history of the world. All of our western democratic allies have universal healthcare. We do not. We used to have free tuition public. Colleges and universities in this country, and we have lost the value of the minimum wage has degraded over time. A working people need to have a decent standard of living. So we have got to energize, excite people, and what has happened is after this period of dominance, we had the Reagan revolution on a group of folks came along and said, the problem with the Democratic Party is we're not really enough in the pocket of Wall Street and financial interests. And if we do that, we can really win and they did win in nineteen Ninety-two Bill Clinton won with forty. Three percent of the vote is three races. People may remember then go down a path of neoliberal economics. We had NAFTA we had most favored nation status with China, and we destroyed the relationship between the Democratic Party and its historic working class base in this country. In nineteen ninety four. We lost the house of representatives of the first time since nineteen fifty to seeing that kind of loss and the disconnection between working class people in the party. They turn to a very ugly set of policies. Dome to attack the LGBT community welfare reform, which was a pared down version of Reagan's welfare. Queen the crime Bill created mass incarceration in this country. We forget that Bill Clinton and Joe Biden are the fathers of mass incarceration in America. And since then we have been trying to find our way in two thousand sixteen the grassroots of this party said no more. We wanna stand up. We want to reclaim our new deal heritage. We want to be the dominant party in this country again for decades to come. We want to bring people together and not divide them up. We have got to serve the interests of working people marginalized communities and not the rich and the powerful. Thank you. Just leave her the resolution. Again, progressive populism will save the Democratic Party in here to make his opening statement against the motion. Please welcome. Jonathan Cowan co, founder and president of third way, legitimate John Kelly. All excited about the new generation of candidates hailing from all ideological wings, young people, women and people of color are adding dynamism and diversity to the Democratic Party. The evidence is overwhelming. That populist ideas will not help Democrats. They might look good on a bumper sticker. But when voters here about the details, support crumbles, take their centerpiece idea, Medicare for all in twenty sixteen the purple state of Colorado had a Medicare for all style initiative on the ballot. It was decimated seventy nine percent voted. No, it lost in liberal boulder. Now admit during these midterm general elections, there have been lots of Medicare for all ads on the air. They're not being aired by Democrats, they're being aired by Republicans as a tax ads. GOP knows that if they can label every democrat is a backer of Medicare for all, as well as. Other far left ideas like abolishing ice, they can retain the house. Their signature ideas are politically potent for Republicans and democratic voters agree, twenty, three million people just voted in the democratic primaries. They were our most energized and committed voters turning out in historic numbers, and most of them voted for the more mainstream democrat and against the democratic socialist. Yes. There were notable exceptions, Alexandra Aqazadeh, Cortez, and Rashid it to leave one by running, inspired races in cobalt, blue districts, but mainstream Democrats won almost everywhere else. And if candidates carrying these ideas can't win primaries, that agenda clearly has no chance of delivering victories in a general election, democratic primary voters in Virginia had to choose between Ralph Northam and Tom Perreault a talented former congressman proudly embraced a populist agenda and. Even feature Bernie in his ads, north them ran as a proud, moderate north, and crushed him by twelve points and went on to easily win the general election that for junior win by a moderate kicked off the primary season. Andrew Cuomo's resounding victory over Cynthia Nixon marked the last with a handful of exceptions primaries in the forty eight states in between delivered similar results. So remember you're not saying the democratic socialist ideas and the candidates carrying them can win in queens. You're saying that these populist ideas can win and save the Democratic Party everywhere twenty three million democratic primary voters just wait in most of them vote? No, I hope you'll do the same. Jonathan Kelly co, founder and president of third way, arguing against the resolution progressive populism will save the Democratic Party. We'll have more opening statements when we come back. I'm John. Then this is intelligence squared. US. We are halfway through the opening round of this intelligence squared. US debate. I'm John Don van. We have four debaters teams of two arguing it out over this motion, progressive populism will save the Democratic Party debating for the resolution here is on peer senior advisor and national spokesperson for move on dot org. Corinne jump ear. Populism is defined as support for the concerns of ordinary people. Populism is not about right versus left, but it's about top versus bottom. How do we fight against a society that benefits the privilege the elites? Now there are many forms of populism. Donald Trump has his form of populism rhetoric, but his populism is right wing white nationalist populism. He chooses to divide using race, religion, immigration status, and gender. Progressive populism unifies and brings us all together. The late Senator. Paul Wellstone used to say, we all do better when we all do better. We also have to talk about the power of systems that are created to benefit the privilege and the elites. And I'm talking about white supremacy. I'm talking about patriarchy Islamaphobia, what progressive populism does it fights against that? It says. Oh to that. Now, how do we move forward? My parents were immigrants. My dad was in New York City. Cabdriver my mom, a home health care aide. The issues that matter to them also mattered to their white working class counterparts. Progressive populism has solutions are solutions are actually incredibly popular. For example, Medicare for all lake research. Did a survey back in April and asked voters in battleground, congressional districts how they felt about Medicare for all fifty, four percent strongly support, Medicare for all. But I think the most interesting thing about that survey was that democrat who are infrequent voters. It was more popular with them, and we also believe in the auto bailout, which was incredibly successful. Thank you. See rattener, and it was a great example of how government when they step into activism can really help the markets, but now wanna talk about candidates the first. One is better work. He's running in Texas. Donald Trump won Texas by nine points. Vader ROY is authentic. He's fighting for the people. He's progressive. He's not taking pack. Money's not taking corporation money, and he's doing really well in that race. Windy Davis lost the governor's race a couple years ago by twenty point said that she would run a more progressive campaign if she were to do it again, Andrew gillum incredibly progressive making history, and he came out in the general election has been leading an all of the polls in Florida. Trump won that by one or two points all the past democratic candidates who were who were in the middle have never done as well as he's doing right now. Look, it's not going to be up to us who are on stage that's going to decide what the Democratic Party is going to do. It's going to be up to activists and voters out across the country, and they're making it loud and clear. They want the Democratic Party to challenge status quo and to fight for the ninety. Nine percent not the one percent. Thank you Commissioner Pierre resolution, progressive populism. We'll save the Democratic Party and here to make his statement against the motion. Please welcome. Steven Rattner chairman and CEO of will let advisors and former counselor to the secretary of the treasury. Steven Rattner. I'm a democrat and I consider myself a progressive and I consider myself as a fighter for the ninety, nine percent as I think it should be defined. I believe that our tax system excessively favors the rich, I believe that income inequality in our country is reprehensible levels and must be addressed. I believe that the federal government should lean in and try to solve the pressing problems of those who've been left behind. But I don't believe that endorsing policy ideas that are either unaffordable would somehow be good politics for the Democratic Party. There has not been a single democratic president elected in our history, espousing the kinds of policies that the proponents of this motion advocate not after yard, ran in nineteen thirty two on a platform of balancing the budget, not John f. Kennedy who, by the way, cut taxes for the rich, certainly not Bill Clinton and not even Barack Obama who Senator Sanders attacked as weak for not pushing more aggressive policies. Then there other losers, George McGovern who carry just one state and the district of Columbia nineteen, seventy two in nineteen. Eighty four. Walter Mondale suffered exactly the same fate. All of us up here agree that the election of Donald Trump was one of the saddest days of our lifetime. With an approval rating hovering around forty, three percent. There's no way he should be reelected. But if we wanna make the unimaginable imaginable just nominate someone out of touch with the mainstream of this country. Remember that only thirty, three percent of Americans are even Democrats at all the share of independence at thirty seven percent is the highest in twenty seven years. You've heard the suggestion that Bernie Sanders could have beaten Donald Trump. We'll never know. But we do know a few things. The fact that democratic voters are increasingly concentrated geographically, particularly and big blue states like New York and California. So to win, we must reach out to more moderate voters in Pennsylvania in Michigan. And it was constant three states that we never should have lost. You've heard, turn out blame for secretary Clinton's loss, but at sixty point, one percent turnout was higher in two thousand and sixteen than it was for Barack Obama's reelection in two thousand and twelve. Now, let's turn to policy guarantee a fifteen dollar. An hour income to all that would cost on the order of six hundred eighty billion dollars annually expense social security. That sounds pretty good until Americans understand that the trust fund is on track to go broke in twenty thirty four and jeopardize the benefits that we've already promised. Make public colleges wishing free as Jeff suggested it's great goal for the underprivileged. But if any of my kids were to go to a public institution, I have no idea why they should get a free ride break up the big banks that sounds appealing, although apparently not Mr.. Sanders, Senate colleagues, none of whom have signed on as co sponsors of his Bill. Abolish ice only thirty, two percent of voters want that fifty. Three percent understand that immigration customs service allbeit with reforms is something that we need to have. I share the goals of the populace, but we should address the critical issues facing our nation by putting forward responsible prudent policies that will attract the coalition of voters that we need to keep Donald Trump from another four years of destroying America. Thank you. Thank you. Steven, Rattner. And that concludes round one of this intelligence squared. US debate. Now we move onto round two and round to the debaters address one another directly, and they take questions from me and from you, our live audience here in New York City. What we seem to be hearing about is a dispute over how many voters will respond to the set of policies that are identified with progressive populism the team arguing for the resolution green zone Pierre. And Jeff Weaver, they describe in this country, a sense of emergency in the light of things like xenophobia and ultra nationalism and racism attention between top and bottom. And in that framework, they say, these are solutions that appeal to the bottom ideas like Medicaid for all free public college tuition, abolishing ice housing as a human, right? The team arguing against the resolution, Jonathan Cowan, and Steven Rattner. They identified themselves as progressives, but they say the problem is political reality. These ideas will scare the public. They look great on a bumper sticker, but in reality. Voters will not go for that. They cite instance, after instance, where given the opportunity to either vote for these things they voted against or when put in place, they ultimately failed. And I want to take a question to Jeff Weaver from something that your opponents said in that Democrats need to have moderates come into the tent, and it almost sounded as though that they were saying that you and Corinne are arguing for appealing to the democratic base and that the moderates you just can't get them. I want to see if I understand that correctly. That is not what we're saying. We had a hard fought democratic primary between secretary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, and the evidence is pretty clear. I've seen exist polls in zillion states. Bernie Sanders was winning rural Democrats, conservative Democrats, moderate Democrats, secretary Clinton was doing much better with suburban Democrats who on paper look liberal because they are pro choice support that ended a little warming and so on and so forth. So the modeling that was done clearly showed that Bernie was winning the very voters that you're talking about in red places. There were coming out overwhelmingly Bernie Sanders, which is what you want. Oklahoma, you wanna Ganzi want to Nebraska when Utah you want an Idaho and on and on it goes. And in fact, it is these voters that I'm arguing we need to bring back into the working class voters in red states. This question about geographic concentration of democratic support is a very, very serious problem that we have intellectual college system. We need to broaden our support geographically, and the way you do that is by being unapologetically on the side of working people in these states, we all forget the mid west of this country used to be the center of progressive politics in this country. The plain states, we have lost touch with those people because the truth of the matter is that there are many people in that wing of the party really don't like those people very much. Okay. Just let me break into points respond to some of what you said because he said a lot John Cowan. Jefferson that those voters in the red states that you say would be driven away by these ideas would not be driven away? Well, let me just, I just the last you made and maybe I misunderstood it. But if you're saying that I do not like a bunch of working class voters that's beyond offensive and ridiculous. Okay. Twenty five years of my life to democratic policy and policy-making. The debate is not whether we feel or you feel more passionately about helping the struggling and working middle class of this country question, is this not whether people like your ideas, it's weather, those ideas will win elections and they don't win elections. Wrote. Not a different debate. Another night is the policy merits of them. Question is Democrats run on your ideas. Will they win? We just had not a poll. We just had an actual election of twenty three million democratic primary voters and whoever you feel about Sanders in his ideas, whatever you feel about them, the result is unequivocal democratic. Primary voters shows candidates were not the passionate supporters care idea. Let me bring in Korean there. There are currently in this election cycle. We do have some history makers running on progressive issues. They're running on issues that are actually popular. I mention Andrew gillum. That's amazing because his Florida that we're talking about. And and he beat out was at four or five centrist millionaires Democrats unless forgets the Abrahams, who could potentially make history. Who has a history of working across the aisle, which is great, but she's literally wrestling an advocate now, labeling herself, a pragmatic leader, just saying that you have candidates in red states, not blue states who are doing incredibly well making these racist competitive, and they're running on progressive issues. So Steve honored Korean used the word. There are some history makers. Some I agree there are some history makers. Unfortunately, they are a small number of history makers against a much larger group of examples case, after case, after case during this primary season in which Democratic Party before we even get to the rest of the electric. But the registered Democrats chose the moderates with respect to two thousand and sixteen Senator. Sanders has an appeal that was not enough to get him to win. He lost the primaries to Hillary Clinton by four million votes. If I remember correctly, not that there aren't examples that support your thesis, but they are a small number of example, magenta candidate could not be Trump and another candidate like that. Can that it won't be. Twenty. First of all, you have no way of knowing that nobody didn't win your beat. Our candidates was. He was at questions. What's the future for the party? If the party continues to go with you guys, they will continue to and I used to go with us guys. The last two Democrats to win the White House back to back or us guys. Your guy said REI. Obama was not progressive, and I know what he thinks Bill Clinton. So our dyes are the last two Democrats win the White House. That the object, the last two, I mean, give me an example of one democrat who's won the White House going down your road, nobody. So I have to push back on Steve Rattner. Move on has endorsed more than two hundred candidates across the country who are progressive candidates who are diverse, who are in states like Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and they're running on a progressive message. Let me take to John Callen would I think I heard commune just saying is that these ideas that they will bring people out of the voting woodwork who have chosen to sit it out before this need to reconnect with the working person that they're disengaged and that there was a coalition. There could be a coalition that could be excited into voting for these ideas. Of course, it's all speculative, but that's this is actually the point is it's just speculative. Let's go to political reality. So give you two examples of political reality around this Medicare for all. So if the thesis is Medicare for all will energize all kinds of voters in win elections. Let's look. At the general election advertising, not one democrat in the eighty. Four competitive races is running an ad that says Medicare for all. So unless we think that all eighty, four of those Democrats are idiot and have no idea how to win the racist. It means they took a hard look at and they said, you know what these ideas aren't going to win me elections. That's going to win this fall. I wanna let your opponents responsive pulling. It informs the d. triple C's messaging on this and let's let's be clear. I mean, d triple very hesitant about Medicare for listeners who don't know what the democratic congressional campaign committee and the Democratic Party which supports house candidates house up straight. Can you know? I just heard vice is wrong, and it's born out eighty percent of Democrats and poll support Medicare for all fifty, two percent of Republicans. How can you that that is a losing issue and Gillam just wanna primary in Florida gets a bunch of millionaires Medicare for all your citing a poll citing an actual ballot initiative in Colorado for a Medicare for all system. It lost. Seventy nine to twenty one hit lost in Boulder, Colorado, Andrew is polls that questions can be asking. And by the way, Kaiser foundation, the gold standard on healthcare research and polling in the United States. Yes, majority of people support it in the moment. You start telling them anything about to support completely collapses. So instead of theory, Bernie would've won, but beaten Trump, Medicare would work. If you do this. Let's look at the reality. They're not winning one of the thing on the midterms because this is really important. We can't redefine who is in the general election candidates of the eighty four competitive races, three quarters of those folks have been endorsed either by the New Democrats in the house or the blue dogs. The conservative Democrats in the house just four percent of been endorsed by Justice. Democrats are revolution, look at who's actually running the people who won. These races are moderate mainstream democrat, and they're the people who God willing are going to put a check on Trump and hand us back, put something else into the conversation. I want to be very careful about how I phrased this because I'm not during comparison between the content of what candidate Trump put out there to the public with ideas. The progressive side is putting out there to the degree that voted for him along with those ideas that he went out and played the populist game and made big promises. Two years ago, political reality was he could never get elected, and yet he pulled it off. So what does that example show fear opponents argument that big, sweeping, dangerous sounding ideas could actually have this impact on the electorate and pull off the unpredictable. Even though democratic president ever ran on those ideas before Steve Rattner. First of all, I don't know that Trump had very many big ideas. He had a slogan make America great again, and it was actually quite brilliant. Even though he stole it from Ronald Reagan, nobody pushed buttons. He pushed all kinds of funds that are look. The fact was and is there are still huge numbers of Americans who've been left behind. When you look at median wages adjusted for inflation, when you particularly separate them out and look at what's happened to people toward the bottom, even during the Obama recovery heart a. President Obama tried to make it better for everybody. You had a large group of Americans who felt angry, who felt left out by the Democratic Party because it was worrying about a lot of other interest groups, or at least they perceive that to be the case, and they decided to vote for Donald Trump. It is almost without precedent. I think there may be two or three examples in two hundred and some odd years. Someone of the same party as an eight year president succeeding because people like change. They want change after eight years Clinton had three million more votes than Donald Trump anyway, but they were not exactly the right places by seventy thousand folks. And so you had a kind of perfect storm of events that caused him to be elected. Let me just say one thing about Medicare for all half of Americans get their health care from their employer. You say to them, you're going to lose your healthcare from your employer, and you're going to become part of government healthcare, you think they're going to support that. Well, apparently, Elizabeth Warren things, they do Cory Booker things that they will. These are people were going to be running for president of the United States, Bernie Sanders, things they will every Senator. Her US Senator who's thinking about running for president, supports Medicare for everyone. And I would say that if one of those people gets nominated on that platform, we will lose. We'll have four more years of Donald Trump and we will be deeply deeply regretful about that. We only lose if the people back your ideas and funder ideas fold up their cards, go home like the McGovern of other times. If your wing of the party stands with the progressive nominee, forget, forget my wing of the party thirty. Three percent of the country are Democrats. How do you win an election? Even if you get every single one of them, how do you win an election without repack millennials are independence. This old notion that Democrats moderate independence and Republicans on the right is that old outdated notion that has no reflection, American politics. But young people who are independents who are over here, those people don't vote against go away. Jeff Weaver an adviser to Senator Bernie Sanders, arguing that progressive populism will save the Democratic Party. The stakes are high. For the Democrats. The debate continues with questions from the audience. This is intelligence squared US. I'm John. This is intelligence squared. US we have two teams debating this resolution will progressive populism, save the Democratic Party. Now it's time for questions from the audience. Point of fact, here it is true that twenty sixteen twenty twelve. The voter turnout was around the same. However, in twenty sixteen it was significantly down among people of color and among working people. Hillary Clinton was a centrist and was from the Wall Street wing of the party and her numbers suffered. And what you're really saying is, had there been a populist, maybe Bernie Sanders instead of Hillary Clinton? Would we be with the President Trump today? I think that's your quest. Yes, I'll take it. What we saw in two thousand sixteen with Hillary Clinton and people of color is that they were not inspired to vote for her. The issues weren't there. They weren't talking to them. Another thing that was happening around that time in two thousand fifteen was the black lives matter movement, right? The crime Bill came up, and so there was a lot of feeling particular young black voters who didn't feel that the campaign was talking to them who didn't feel that there was a place for them because of what was happening in twenty fifteen with young black bodies being killed on the streets. We take your point to to join. I think you have to disentangle problems with Hillary as a candidate. From the question tonight, if a candidate in the future carries these ideas will that candidate win, whatever you think of the merits of these ideas. They're not politically popular in enough places Jeff cited. The senators who might run for president who support Medicare for all. That's true. They're all from safe blue places. Our job as a party is not to figure out how to make blue places, bluer, it's how to make red places blue and purple places blue. That's our job. Progressive, not gotten a fair shot in this party in terms of funding other things. But we do know is that your point of view has destroyed the party, your free trade deal, destroyed the relationship with working class. Democrats your call for cutting social security. It's going to kill this party. You guys represent a certain of interest I get. It's cool like this is a big tent party, but you cannot be the dominant voice in this party because you have no credibility with working people. When you go out and talk to real people in the real world, we have no credibility with working people. So just to be clear because you and Bernie said many times you said Barack Obama wasn't progressive. So why do we supported by working class people? Barack Obama built an amazing coalition. In fact, I think our challenges to rebuild the Obama coalition, the centrist Obama coalition just to be clear because that's actually what we have to do. I would have had some you make a point that I want to add something for Akot Bama didn't support any of your policies virtually. He didn't support Medicare for all. He didn't support free college tuition. In years ago, we're talking about two thousand things have changed since because he supports it now. He's all right. All right. I want to throw something into this conversation that comes from an interesting direction. The other day there was an op-ed attacking Medicare for all. It was written by Donald Trump, and he said, quote, the truth is that the centrist Democratic Party is dead, and Joe Biden reacted to that tell Trump should hang on. So does Trump's characterization of the party have any traction Trump? How saying that because he's greatest fear is running against someone like Bill Clinton, Nora, bam. That's why he thinks he'll lose if Democrats regain the house. A third of the Democrats in the house will be self described New Democrats far from the centrist democratic wing of the party being dead. It's alive. It's well. It's robust elected the last two Democrats to the White House, and I don't believe the way to win is a. Reprise of nineteen ninety s democratic centralism any more than I believe a reprise of nineteen sixties, democratic socialism, the way to win. We're in a new era and we need something different. Are the ideas like Medicare for all put up? Is there evidence? Those will win elections for Democrats, and there isn't respondent. I'm going to go back to questions. It's not just Medicare for all. There's also different college. There's a Ford -able homeownership. You talked about examples of elections recently where candidates have won Connor lamb, Pennsylvania, eighteen congressional district very red district. I think it had been held by Republican for more than ten years. If I, if I get that right, he was running on protecting social security. He was running on protecting Medicare and Medicaid. The issues matter as well. Now, where do you guys stand on that? Where does third way STAN on social security? I think that matters because you're talking about that are issues are not going to win the day, but were you guys on social security, protecting social security isn't a Sanders position or progressive. Populace position. It's a position I can't really think of many Democrats who don't hold it does women with flex and yes, thank you. My name is Kath. I'm wondering you mentioned the new deal and the marginal tax rate in order to pay for that program when from twenty five percent of two ninety four percent and most other countries that have Medicare type for all it seventy percent. How will you get normal working people to be willing to pay seventy percent increase in taxes in order to pay for others? There's a reason study out Medicare for all. This also point out that over half of the democratic members of the house of Representative sport Medicare for all those cosponsor legislation and support Medicare for all. So this is not a fringe idea. By the way, there was this report which showed that in fact, aggregate healthcare spending in this country would go down substantially if you had a Medicare for all system, so we'll be paying more taxes. Yes, no doubt about that. You can't get around that. Will they pay less premiums? Yes, because when penny premiums, they won't pay any co payments deductibles going gonna. Be able to get our hands around the pharmaceutical industry, ripping off this country, charging the highest prices in the world. So in the aggregate, our country is going to save money. It's going to be good for business. People will pay less Stephen. Again, this is not a debate about policy debate about politics. I do not believe if you go to half of Americans and say, you're going to give up your employer based health insurance and on government plan, they would think that was a great idea. But I wanna make different point because the question was really about taxes. Clinton was elected in nineteen Ninety-two why didn't lose the house in nineteen ninety four because Bill Clinton raised taxes and the people did not want that. So there is a limit to I'm for Kexin creases. I said that in my opening remarks, you can raise my taxes to whatever you want, but I think it has been well proven in this country that there's a limited tolerance for raising taxes beyond a certain point. And I don't think it works politically. Okay. I wanna go to some more questions things. Hi there. Maine's Dan. I have a question for each side. I mean, there's always in party fighting, but there seems to be a claim of who is the true democrat. And I guess that I like, okay, which of you is representing the Democratic Party here tonight? Can I answer that? Yes, yeah. Seriously. Great thing you're supposed to do is build a winning coalition that does not just include your side or other people. The point is if you want to get the White House back and large, sustained democratic majorities to do good things for the working middle class to this country, you have to build a winning coalition. That's the man, will they build a winning coalition. And when you look at it, they don't actually do that. Man have such a problem with that because what we're asking for is inclusivity what we're saying is if you reach out. Yes, white working class in the middle America absolutely matters. No one is saying we don't talk to them. We're saying came, there are Brown people. There are black people. There are young people that needs to be reached out to it needs to be inclusive. That's how you build a winning coalition and it needs to be multiracial. And so for decades. Now, those folks that I just mentioned Heff felt left. Out we have. We have felt left out now at a point in twenty eighteen where we see candidates across the country in red states and blue states that are representing everyone you have to have inclusivity. You have to include everyone and we can't go back and just focus on one group responsible. I agree one hundred percent that you have to have diverse coalition, and there's a lot of folks who have been represented well spoken for. Well, the question is what I is, should those diverse group of candidates carry and will those ideas and able you to win, sir. My name is Paul. So for people who are skeptical about too many government programs and being dependent on government, healthcare and government funded education and fearing losing their independence and freedom of choice. Someone who is more moderate like me who has left the Democratic Party and become an independent because I don't particularly relate with a lot of these ideas. How do you win me back? What a great question. That's right on the table. So. The issue of free tuition of public colleges and universities. We already have k. through twelve, I think we're all support probably going down to pre k. I don't know if you guys are in that camp or not. So we have an arbitrary deadline where you get past twelfth grade. Now we cut you off. We didn't use to by the way in New York state and California, the places you didn't use to get cut off at twelve grade. Steve doesn't want his kids getting a free ride. But if it's kids shows up in first grade, he's going to get a free ride. That's just the way we work at in this country. We have universal secondary primary and early education. There's no reason why we can't have it for undergraduate school or even graduate school. Our European allies in many cases do it that way. Great loss of talent of young people who either choose not to go to school or come out of school greatly indebted and there's research shows that people have so much that they delay making major purchases. I getting married having kids and all host of other things. If we're going to compete in the international environment, we have got to have the best trained workforce in the country. We got to maximize the human capital of our population, and that means having people who are educated that has. Eight social benefit. I have to wrap this section. So Jeff made a pitch to you on one of the particular programs that would cost money by showing you what the benefits would be. Did you find it persuasive? You certainly food for thought. Okay. Interesting. I'm happy to respond to. All right, Steve. I would just say that this gentleman actually pin is what John and I are trying to persuade everybody about that. There are a large group of people out there. Some number. I don't know what who find the policies espoused by are worthy opponents to be not what they can relate to, and therefore they have left Democratic Party and become independence chance voting for someone from the populist wing of the party are very load. Jeff just gave a really great sales pitch for one program. Probably one of the more popular programs, but I would love to see him go through that whole roster of things that he and his candidates espouse and love to do with that. You don't want gentlemen. No, not me that gentleman to become one of the comment. Sanders said that Obama wasn't progressive, but Obama won twice in build a historic coalition. And I personally think I know Steve agrees with this, did some fantastic things as president that I'm really proud of the democrat. Look, it's really, really setting up a straw man. I mean, it's ridiculous. On that note, I need to say. That concludes round to this intelligence squared. US debate where our resolution is progressive populist will say the Democratic Party. So I know all of you have a lot more. You want to say. I want to see if you can pack it into your closing statements in support of the motion, Jeff Weaver senior political adviser to Senator Bernie centers. Thank thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Listen, we as Democrats have a challenge. We have got to build the coalition this country that can beat back Trumpism. We cannot allow this country to go down that very dangerous road today. We're seeing young children locked in cages torn from their mothers. That's only the beginning of what can happen in this country and to do that. We have got to rally working people and marginalized people and young people excite them and bring them into the political process. The challenge facing the Democratic Party today is going to be relevant in ten years. Young people are overwhelmingly registering as independence. We have got to build the party of the future. We have to have bold vision. We. That big plans to deal with big problems. These guys have had their shot. They have wrecked the party. They have destroyed the coalition that under girded the Democratic Party for decades and we can't let them have it back. Thank you Weaver the resolution again, progressive populism will say the Democratic Party here to make his closing statement against the motion one more time. Jonathan Cowan, founder and president of third way on the morning of November. Ninth twenty sixteen my twin ten year old daughters woke at seven AM in their bright innocent voices. They asked is Hillary president. Now that look the shock on their face when I said, no, Donald Trump won. I don't ever wanna see that again. That's why I'm here tonight. And that's why all of you are. The question is, are progressive populist ideas the way to stop Trump to house races this year, tell the tale in Omaha, Nebraska carry Eastman. A Bernie style populace is trying to win back a swing congressional seat. Democrats held as recently as twenty. Fourteen CARA Eastman running passionately on Bernie agenda is getting crushed. She's down nine points. Meanwhile in central Virginia, Abby span burger is running as a mainstream democrat who Republican opponent won that seat by sixteen points. Two years ago, Democrats haven't held this seat in forty years. Her race is tied. We may actually flip red seat because we ran a bold and modern centrist democrat saving. The Democratic Party requires winning everywhere to regain the. House now and to fire Trump in twenty twenty. We can't win general elections with a set of socialist ideas and candidates in even most democratic primary voters just rejected to save the nation from Trumpism. I urge you to vote no. Thank you. Jonathan Cowan the resolution again, progressive populism. We'll save the Democratic Party supporting the motion, Korean Pierre, senior advisor and national spokesperson for move on dot org. I work at move on our millions of members form a big part of the democratic base. As we listened carefully to our members, we learn about their priorities and what motivates them, and it's not centrism. It's a bow, progressive vision for our future. Let me tell you about Chuck t, Chuck veteran, who joined the army to pay for college. Now, one of our move on volunteer leaders Chuck says, progressive policies, reflect the core army values instilled in him through a decade of service the he sees championing progressive policies as a second service to this country, or think of Carmen v a move on member who says, centrist Democrats have never inspired her to do more than vote, but she has been inspired to act by issues like incarceration reform and separation of immigrants families and by progressive public officials, like beta work and Jeff Berkeley. If the Democratic Party will be. Saved. It will be saved by volunteers and activists, like Carmen and Chuck progressive ideas, inspire them, activists, like Carmen, Chuck will save the Democratic Party. Progressive populism is the direction of the Democratic Party. And that is the resolution and here to make his statement against it. Here. Steven Rattner, chairman and CEO of will advisors and former counselor to the secretary of the treasury. This has been a great discussion. I do want to genuinely commend our opponents for their passion and their commitment to the democratic. 'cause it may surprise some of you, but even as a business person, I live in a world that has dominated by centrist, moderate, Democrats, independents and moderate Republicans, not all my friends are financial types things, lawyers, academics, journalists, public servants, and so forth. I know very few people who voted for Donald Trump last time and even fewer who would vote for him next time. But I also know vast numbers of people who say they could never vote for someone like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. Not because they're not good people, but because of their ideas. My friends simply don't believe that the policies of the far left are fiscally responsible nor that they would improve the functioning of our economy, which for all of its challenges, which I will recognize is still the envy of the developed world. So to me, it comes down in large measure to practical realities, nominate someone from the fringe of our party, and we could very well end up. Losing an election, two years from now that by all rights we should win. On the other hand, I am confident that any democrat who can bring our party together and appeal to the tens of millions of independence would triumph and end our national nightmare. Thank you even Radnor. And that concludes posing statements around free. This intelligence squared. US debate. It's the difference between the first and the second vote determines our winter in the first vote, progressive populism. We'll say the Democratic Party before the debate. Thirty, three percent of you agreed with that statement, forty percent disagreed and twenty-seven percent undecided. In the second result, the team arguing for the motion, their vote, went from thirty three percent down to twenty two percent. They lost eleven percentage points. Let's see the team against the motion there. I was forty percent. Their second vote was seventy four percent. They pulled up thirty four percentage points that makes the clear winter. Thank you for me. John donvan by from intelligence squared. US we'll see next time. This intelligence squared US debate was recorded live at the Cape playhouse theatre in New York City. Robert Rosencrantz, our chairman, Liam is chief content officer. Amy craft is director of operations and production shale Matara is manager of a to'real operations, Aaron, Dalton and rob christianson the radio producers. David Whitmore is the audio engineer, and I'm your host John donvan. These debates are made possible by generous contributions from listeners like you and with support from the Rosencrantz foundation. David Coulter, Robert Epstein the Christopher w Johnson charitable trust alone, Nemeth and Allen quash the Georgia or stream junior foundation, Jerry or stream Kelly Posner, Gerston Haber the Mortimer de sac foundation, Jennifer and Felipe solemnity the Paul e singer foundation Edward stern and Stephanie rain, and Emily and Antoine Vanak mill from John donvan and intelligence squared. US. Thank you all very much. Panoply.