Kathy Hochul, Lt Governor of New York State
I'm VIN dealer Skinner, and this is the electorate on today's episode Lieutenant governor of New York state, Kathy who go. Nice. Today's guests. The most powerful woman elected to office in the state of New York is here. Kathie Hobo Lieutenant governor of New York state, Kathy HOGAN is inspiring to say, the least she's held positions at every level of government. And in this conversation. We talk about what that's been like for her. You know, what it takes to win? And most importantly, what to do when you don't win. And luckily for us Kathy hotel is committed to helping other women's exceed. She started a hashtag campaign called how she does it where she talks, frankly about all she does all of the things we also talk about the fact that New York state, they have an entire women's Justice agenda for twenty nineteen. You know, this conversation is full of wisdom and gems that I personally will hold onto 'em refer back to for a long time to come. So I won't delay any longer. Here is my conversation with Lieutenant governor Kathy who they governor Kathy. Hokka welcome to the pike cast. Thank you very much lighter to be on. I'm so excited to talk to you, by the way. Way one of the things that they just aren't about. You is that your mother was an activist. She dedicated her life to helping victims of domestic violence. She. Sure did. Yeah. That's really incredible way to grow up watching your mother do this type of work. What was that like for you? Well, not only victims of domestic violence split back in the late nineteen sixties. My parents were protesting the Vietnam war when I was a little great school. I had to wear a black armband protesting the war. My parents took me to civil rights marches back then and we are involved in the environmental movement and housing opportunities made equal so we could open up lily, white suburbs. To people of color to have an opportunity live in homes, and then she orphaned to fighting for victims of domestic violence, basically what she had seen in her own home where she had an abusive father who left her and her mother and abandoned them, and she had a very tough childhood and had to take care of younger siblings. When her mother died when she was sixteen and she really had a tough life. Instead of being taken down by all the challenges it really built or resiliency, and I've always looked to her for strength when I've had tough challenges because what she overcame was phenomenal and to harness her passion for helping others into really becoming an early advocate for victims at mystic violence and back, then they just call them victims of wife-beating, and it wasn't even cleaned up and people who just really talked about it. And it was something that was really in the shadows. So she launched hearings in our state legislatures. She helped start a home for a tr- a transitional home for victims to be able to go for shelter. And I remember going with my siblings and painting rooms and bring toys in for little kids. And so she really became a champion at a time. When people really didn't acknowledge that the problem existed, and I was so proud of her back then and she decided to go to college back when I was in college because she wanted to make sure that she had the degree in social service, and you'll be able to continue doing her work and even for her seventieth birthday. We asked her what she wanted to do. And she says, let's open a nother home for victims of domestic violence in a home that now has six families and children who have a whole new lease on life because of it. So I was blessed to have that environment to sense that we have a social responsibility to others, and I'll never forget the role model that my mom was we lost her a few years ago to terrible disease Ahah last, but we continue our work in in her name. And I and I feel very fortunate to have had that environment to grow up in. Right. Well, that isn't incredible way to grow up. I mean, so when did you get bitten by the activists bugs? I know you did some activism in college at Syracuse university. I sure did a little before that my family wasn't political. I didn't have any, you know, relatives ran for office. And my father had worked at the steel plant, and my mother had worked on her causes, but was really a homemaker. But when I was in high school, I took advantage of a high school program where I could leave school early every day and go work on an internship, and I chose the Democratic Party locally and the. Chairman of that party was also the New York state chairman and all the major candidates running for federal office and stayed off his came through our offices. When I was there. I was the youngest in the room by Faro's, probably sixteen years old definitely the only girl in the room. And it was my first experience about being the only female in a room, but I overcame it. And I had a chance to work with individuals like Tim rustler to his starting in his career working for Senator Moynihan at the time to get him elected back in his first election, seventy six, and I had the it was really an honor to be able to be surrounded by the real political thinkers of my time in that inspired me to realize the tremendous potential that government affords us to help solve problems of society. But also make people's lives better. So I always knew back then that I wanted to be a staffer someday I never dreamed of running for office. I was going to be an attorney on the staff of Senator Moynihan or someone like him someday. And that was my goal since I was a teenager and carried into San. Accused university where I would be honest in saying they couldn't wait for me to graduate because as protesting everything they did and proud that as the student Representative to our university trustees we able to convince them to divest their holdings in companies doing business in South Africa. That was a major movement back then to try and create pressure to end apartheid. So I did all the protests and brought down the wrath of all the students on our trustees. And you know and boycott are bookstore because prices were too high. And I have a whole is I didn't attend a lot of classes I had to take a few incomplete because I was out there stirring things up. But at the end of the day, you know, I was able to use that experience to give me the confidence and public speaking speaking in front of the assembly of one hundred fifty other student leaders every time I wanted to get something done. I think that's what really steeled me toward life in public service, but also becoming an advocate for other people. And I talk to college students today. And I love having interns, and I spoke to my interns yesterday use this opportunity to hone in on your skills and developed leadership and public speaking and writing skills are going to propel you to opportunities later do that when you're in high school and college and it'll be so far ahead of everybody else. And that's what I did. I love that. I love that story. Really universities don't really encourage dissent anymore. It's like, they think syndrich caused a stir or you know, they're going to be radicalized or something. Yeah, wasn't violent. But certainly taking over the administration's offices for a couple of days, you know, and we said their lobby lobbying ordered pizza headed delivered. And you know, we just making our point. And we also tried to have our university new stadium named after Ernie Davis. The first black Heisman Trophy winner who had played for Syracuse university football and went onto professional but career, but he also died at a young age of leukemia. And we had a go convince the large corporate interests that they should use their money. Not to name the the. Stadium after themselves, but the name it after this inspirational figure the other graduate of Syracuse university. Clearly I lost because as not called the early Ernie Davis dome right now, it's called the carrier corporation dome. But at the time, it was probably nineteen years old went in and just you know, took on the establishment took on the head of the corporation. And as a result they did name the field after any Davis. And so I also learned that sometimes you're not going to get everything you want, but you can get a compromise. If you don't even ask for anything, you'll get nothing, and that's a given. And I've used that throughout my life. Something I learned at a young age to help me negotiate and to push for your far-reaching objectives. But be you know, know, that if I didn't raise my voice up on behalf of people or causes. They may not get accomplished. And so I I've always looked back to that is just a formative time in my life. Right. So so you said you weren't looking to initially run for office. Right. So what was the very first position you held the elected position. Well, this is an interesting story. And I tell this to young women all over because I don't want to be like me. I had the goal as I said what I was younger to be a staffer. And I did I was an attorney for Senator Moynihan worked on Capitol Hill for a congressman and had the opportunity to write speeches and work on legislation. That was important. And I was so happy to really, you know, make the other guys look good. And I was good at what I did. And I never dreamed that I'd have the courage to really be the person put their name on the ballot. Because that just seems so far fetched for women there were so few role models, and I decided, yeah, I can be happy working for other people. And I went back to my hometown. After years in Washington and started going to local town board meetings, and realizing that there are some big corporate interests like WalMart. They were trying to come into town and would hurt our local community and fighting against Exxon Mobil because the prices were. Too high of gasoline. And so I started thinking, you know, what I I went to a lot of meetings. I was involved in my local party. And finally there was an opening on our town board, and I didn't even think that after, you know, working as an attorney working in Washington big an advocate, an activist that I had what it took to run for local office, and that a twenty one year old young man, right out of college never had a real job still living at home with his parents decides he's going to run for that very position. And I said, you know, what I'm thirty five. I've done all this. You know, raising a family I'm in this community. I'm vested here. I care about it. And maybe I should take a shot as well. While the good news is they were two positions. We both ran and we both one and I served with this young man and others for fourteen years. And I tell the story that he was not wrong his confidence in himself was well placed today. He now runs a three cores of a billion dollar healthcare organization in buffalo. So he knew he. Had something when he was twenty one that I didn't know I had in me when I was thirty five and had accomplished a great deal. So I say where are the twenty one year old women who have that much confidence in themselves that they've got a voice that needs to be heard. They've got something to offer and don't end up like me waiting forever. And I've had a great career. But that was my first experience in public life, and I would have been happy with that. I really was very content fighting the good causes on behalf of the people of my town. But another opportunity came to run for countywide office Iran for that successfully on other opportunities came for congress. We can talk about that crazy race than I unexpectedly won in the most Republican district in New York and then onto Lieutenant governor. So I've served at every level of government. I've cherished every one of them. I find each one of them fast any, but for me now, I feel really in tune with people locally, and I understand their concerns really at a gut level. I still go visit the diners and stay. Connect with people in my hometown, kind of a gritty steel town that was you know, left for dead after Bethlehem Steel pulled up a decade ago two decades ago. So I really feel a connection with people that have had it tough in life. Because I we started off very humbly. My parents used to live in a trailer park, and when it got a little house, they thought they had just you're living the American dream, and I've always appreciated what I have because so many people still don't have what I've able to have because of a good education and a loving family. You know, I still find that story inspiring you whether you had decided to run at twenty one or the fact that you decided to run after it started a family at thirty five, you know, either way women can't win right were either too young. Or if you know where to old right as I still find that story, really inspiring. So, you know, we often when women, you know, they have families gets in middle age, or, you know, thirty five really isn't wage, but you know, we still lack that confidence. So yeah, I just spoke to a group of women in our state capital of Albany yesterday. Women in government and public service, and it was mostly college students. And I said the reason so many women don't achieve their full potential is they lack something called Catholics. And it's it's in your own head said, you can walk out this door today and have confidence in yourself and walk into your next meeting unit. It's REU filled with men and act like you own the place, not an arrogant way but away that shows I could handle anything, and that's a strength. We have. I said don't underestimate how strong women are that. I've had a couple of kids. I guarantee that if men were the ones who are responsible rearing or having children, we'd probably have no population. Let if that all women are tough where resilient we can handle pain. We can handle adversity and lean into that and women you're tough so act like you have the confidence people will not follow someone who's not confident in themselves. You can't be a leader. If you don't believe in yourself, and it's all in your own. Head. And so I just wanted to impress upon them start at your young age, and and feel that you can take on any challenge. No matter how big it seems. And now there's role models when I was running there were very few women in elective office. And I say as the highest rank woman in New York state, I have a responsibility to other women all ages. But particularly the young ones who need to see that someone went before them and pave the way, and I wear a necklace that is actually a piece of broken glass. I'm wearing it today. And it reminds me of the glass ceilings that have been broken, but the ones that still need to be broken yet. And that's what I work on every day as Lieutenant governor trying to embrace these issues at affect women, deeply, go out and talk about them how we can change public policy. But also if I can touch an individual and get them to want to run for office or work on elections or become an a champion of a particular advocacy issue like reproductive-health than to me that's success. How I define success. Now. You know, I'm still stuck on that that image of you as a sixteen year old walking into that room full of men, and then here talking about confidence. I mean that must have taken, you know, I could just see you there still in high school probably among these men must have taken quite a bit of confidence to just do that. Yeah. I don't think I thought I had it back then and even in high school. I was definitely not in the my yearbook. No one would have written most likely to succeed likely to run for office. That was I was still relatively shied in like to talk to people much, but I still had the sting about government. Maybe it's a field trip. I took to Washington in eighth grade and had a social studies teacher that talked about what's going on in that capital. And how important it is or the causes that my parents exposed me to talking about ill and Martin Luther King was assassinated and Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in Watergate, and all those really defining issues in, you know, long ago history when I was when I was really becoming my formative years, I would say, and so I would not say I was confident. As a teenager at all, but I probably just fearless. I wasn't intimidated and believe me but eating in that room with, you know, a lot of young men in college and beyond wasn't comfortable in certainly I endured my share of comments, which is, you know, roll off, you know, that's part of how it is. And it's frustrating to me the note that that culture hasn't changed that much that they're still women who have to endure an awful lot. When they're in these all-male settings are primarily male workplaces. And that's what I talk about two people in how to try to overcome that. And it's frustrating that it's going on today. But I think women have really turned the corner in terms of feeling empowered to stand up for themselves. Whether it's to me too movement or just society shifting finally away. From acceptance that it's normal to make comments about women in the workplace or to be able to sexually harassed them. Or hold them back. I think we're having some breakthroughs, and I'm starting to see it more in the world as well. With the number of women elected to congress, for example. And I and I had a chance to go back and visit my former colleagues and see Nancy Pelosi as speaker, and a, you know, the side of the aisle that I used to sit on filled with more women and diverse women that to me was so exciting, and it really set my heart racing to know that in a short time, we've really made some real progress and me as well. Let's go back to something you looted to you. That that unlikely raised that you want in a red district. Tell me more about that. Well, I had been an accounting official in Erie county, which is around Buffalo New York, not far from Niagara Falls at site of New York state, very far from New York City, people think for all of New York is New York City. It is not there's a big sections of New York state that are probably politically closer to Texas than than San Francisco. It'd be for example, which we consider more New York. So it's a diverse area. I had the opportunity to look at this race when it was a member of congress who you can look up to history, but I would just make a recommendation that if you're a current member of congress don't. Look for men or women on on social media using your real name. Okay. Just that's some advice. So that was exposed remarried man, and he got into trouble. And he decided he needs to resign very quickly. So all of a sudden there was a vacancy in this conservative district. And I was also looking at running for the highest county office, which is county executive which would have been much easier. I would have probably won the poll showed me ahead. I could've raised the money. I had high name recognition and that would have not been as big a challenge. She would have been an honor. But not as big a challenge but the congressional race. I sat down with my family, and my twenty one year old daughter at the time and said, listen, let me let me lay this action. This one side of the ledger. I could probably win this cow other county race the elections this year I'd have to work on that now. But congress, here's here's what we're up against most Republican district in New York. It's very large to very low name recognition. I'd have to raise millions of dollars. I don't have any money and. It be a national race. And I'd probably get really beat up by the coke brothers and everybody else who's going to run negative ads. And I said to my daughter, Katie, I said, what do you think I should do? And she looked up at me. And she said mom, congress, duh, you have to do congress. And I realized you know, what I've got this daughter that I've raised and I wanted to know that her mother had the gusts to do something that is likely to fail as I was I still had the guts to take a risk and I needed to teacher that lesson in that moment. I cut a set myself up. But I said, okay, we'll do congress and my family got on board and believe me for the first few months. It was probably only my family and close friends who thought I could do pull this off. But I started going out to the diners and the talking to the farmers and senior citizens, and at the time of this is two thousand eleven Paul Ryan hit just send it to being coming chair of the budget committee and their plan was to really decimate Medicare and I use. That as an issue to go after Republican seniors in my district and say, we cannot have Republicans in congress break, the promise that has been made to you since nineteen sixty five that will make sure that you have health care when you're when you're a senior citizen, which as you get older and on that issue and some other important issues like that, I really just found this opening this lane and started moving up in the polls a little bit because very few people paid attention. My state party the national party, I was on my own for a long time. But once they saw over this, you know, very short three-month election period. My polls numbers trending Ford. I was starting to get the support I needed out of labor and Washington. And in the end shocked, the nation was you know, we had an election night where every national media truck was air. We the London Times we had newspapers from Hong Kong. And I it was crazy. This is in buffalo. So we won that election with five percent of the vote a margin guy went to wash a sworn in. Couple of days later, and I didn't have a place to stay because I didn't expect to win. So congresswoman, Carolyn Maloney, who represents New York City. Let me stay in a spare bedroom and we shared a bathroom and I second day on the job. I was asked by Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and other roommate if I wanted to play softball with them and joined the softball team. So I was playing softball even though I never played before. And it was an incredible experience, and I'll never never regret going for that. And that was really an honor to serve there. But we had redistricting in two twenty twelve they redrew the lines to make them even more Republican. And I lost that seat by less than two percent. The next election out. So I didn't hold it very long. But it really made me understand how important the issues are that we worked on and I just would not turn my back on issues like the formal Care Act. I had the opportunity to vote against it. Probably forty five times. And my district did not support the Affordable Care Act, and they did not support contraception. And reproductive health rights that I fought for and I really paid the price because I I lost those became the heart of the attack ads against me that were funded by the coke brothers and Karl rove and some other dark monies that influenced our race. But that being said year later after spending a year in the private sector. I received a call from governor Cuomo that he was wondering to consider being his running mate for his second term in office as governor and I signed right back up and ran in a primary wasn't expecting a primary, and she no New York politics at all a lot of votes in New York City, not from upstate New York rhyme from so we work really hard and win that primary, and I was successful in the in the November election. So that's where I've been for the last four and a half years and feeling really truly fortunate that I now have the platform a statewide platform even larger than I had when I was in congress to champion causes for women. Whether it's paid family leave or or childcare issues, which I'm working on or making sure. We have a higher minimum wage a highest in the nation. So I get I get a chance to work on things that matter to people, and it's so fulfilling, and so it's uplifting to know that you know, that life. You don't know how it's going to turn out. But I've been really fortunate. That's all I can say I love every single day. I get up and bang it out one more day and see if I could meet more people and inspire them and make them feel good about what their government could do for them. It's this morning. I opened up an affordable housing place in tough part of Brooklyn known as Bushwick lot of poverty there. But to be able to tell people that you don't have to worry about sleeping on the streets. Tonight. You have a warm place for people to take care of you. That's to me was government's all about we take care of people. And that's what we do at the state level. Well, that's amazing. You're making me both want to run for office to New York. We welcome you to come to New York. And I'll help you campaign. Excellent. Was you kind of answered my next question. I was going ask you about losing election. And I was going to ask that because the other day I was on Twitter. That's all somebody. They started a thread about a woman. I can't remember her name. I can't remember what state or district she ran for. But she loss at election by single digits. Her loss was in single digits. And the thread was saying courage her to run again and reminded me of this conversation. I'd had it was sometime last year before the midterms. And I think it was with I can't remember anything right now. But I think it was with Kelly did mar. And she is with cop the center for American women in politics, we were talking and the thing that she said that was really memorable to me was that she wasn't worried about the midterms in terms of are getting the necessary seats, right that MIR may not happen. You know, the pink wave may or may not happen. But what she was worried about was if we didn't have that wave if limit didn't win the seats are expected of them that they would kind of give up and lose. That momentum. And we wouldn't try again, you know. And so that was my next question to you about whether you've ever lost election. And you just told me that you did, you know, how did you? What did you do? What did you draw on to pick yourself back up into get back in? What would you say to women who've lost that is a great question because people focused on the victors and just most recently the first calls I made after the twenty teen election and a lot of people had supported women had run for congress and really tough districts and help them all across the state of New York. I call them I want who lost. Because as I said, I've been there. It's painful when you lose an election, especially one when you've already held the seat as I did. And you work so hard, and you have a lot of people believe in you. I think women can handle the loss, but they know they've disappointed people. And I think what hurt me the most was knowing that my staff, and my friends and my allies, and my family were probably in pain because of my loss, and that's that's I focused on and I and it was hard, and you don't want to get out of bed for a lot of days. And I swear I had PTSD I didn't want to go into the grocery store. My husband had to do all the grocery shopping because you just think people looking at you like, oh, you're a loser. And we saw those horrible negative ads about you were so horrific. I didn't wanna vote for myself when I was I said, my really that bad, and you know, the little girl next door of us says told her mother she says, please turn off the TV. They make MRs Hoke. Look so scary. When of course, it's Halloween time. And they've got me on a broom like a witch dispense stuff. So it's really. It's tough. But I tell women this too. I guess what eventually I healed and I got better. And you know, if it doesn't kill you. It makes you stronger, and I said, no one could touch me. Now, I am I am like steel, and I've one other women to know that that you may have lost one time look at how many men who are running. Now. Let's look at Joe Biden, for example, or Ronald Reagan took three times become president metal do it. Again, men will be out there fundraising the next time already an act like nothing happened and the women that are already now talking about running again after losing I find them inspiring. And I want them to know that I'll support them, and we'll get it the second time around, and, you know, just by stepping up and saying I'm willing to run they're in a very small percentage of the population that has the guts to do that or who care enough to expose themselves to tremendous public scrutiny. I mean, everything from what you're wearing. And you know, how your hair looks? And if you put on a couple of pounds, and all these other things are talked about. Incessantly, but you have to have a clear eyed vision of wire doing it don't put up with all the crap to stole it Abbasi as my mother used to say, no one can make you feel bad without your permission. So I don't give anybody permission and stay focused on the prize, which is having a position where you can help people have a better life. And if you can keep your mind on why you're doing it and let everything else just, you know. Peel away. You have to do that. It's it's part of survival in this business. So I'm not going to sugarcoat how painful it is. When you lose an election, but you'll feel much better by yourself. If you go back at it and try again, and that's what I want women to know while I'm gonna you're made of steel I'm gonna wake up every morning and tell myself in the mirror, you're we are tougher that we give ourselves credit for really do a nice another hangup that women have and we got to go over a few things ourselves, and I'm excited about you know, trying to change it for other women make and make an a difference. But that's why I have this hash day. We can talk about that too. I talk about lessons that I've learned through hash day called how she does it and we launched this back in March. And we have had such a great response. And I started telling really dispersal stories about how I survive every day, and I get asked when you I travel I've gone around the planet, mile wise, probably probably almost ten times definitely over. Nine and a half. So I'm constantly on the road. I travel the entire state. I go to every event known to man. I mean, thousands of people I I've given twenty three hundred speeches and Heidi prepare for speeches. How do you survive being on the road all the time? And so I found the opportunity through this hashtag recognizer those questions, and I start off by saying that women are born multi-taskers and people wanna know how I packed and travel and deal with hotels, and airports and balanced family and exercise and what I eat. So we've had some fun answering these questions, but recently, I've done a couple of things one is having given so many speeches, and this is something that terrifies both men and women, but I tell women if you can get comfortable, delivering a speech, there's no stopping you. And a lot of practice in front of a mere, but it's in confidence. So I give five major points in how to give a speech as part of my hashtag fact, I was speaking to the Democratic National Committee, New Jersey last Friday and woman came up to me and. He says, you know, I'm a I'm involved in my community people. Tell me I should run. I didn't feel good about giving speeches that I saw your hashtag. And I read how you do it. And I'm thinking I can do this now. And I said, you know, what you just made my day because that's why I'm doing this. I'm trying to share a lifetime of experience with other women because women who've made it to the top. We have a responsibility to reach back and pull other people up with us and through this hashtag rail to give little tips on what to do and one of the ones that got a lot of attention recently was I talked about answering the question what it's like to deal in a male dominated world. And I said here's the answer. I've been called an iron fist and evolving glove. What does that mean? I said what that means is I am brace all the assets and strengths of my femininity. But I will not hesitate to fight back and use my power to fight for myself and for other people, so don't underestimate me. And so I talk about this and an a lot of responded to that a lot of men of respond to that. And I had a man say I showed that. My daughter. I want my daughter to be tough. And so we're enjoying it. But I'm answering questions every single day. And if you have any questions everything from what I eat on the road and what I packed with me. And when I get my most of my work done and how I prepare for interviews and how fit in gym and exercise and the hotel gym. And I actually said Ruth Bader Ginsburg is my inspiration a summit of her age and her position still working out. I feel like a slacker if I don't lose ten minutes a day. So I do go to a lot of hotel fitness centers and try to work out a little bit too. And another question was how do you balance family and work? And I said I fall there's no balance. So don't don't expect it you're never gonna feel equilibrium. Because if you're at work, you're feeling guilty about not being at home with your family with your family. You're preoccupied with work. So you're gonna get through. I tell a lot of women with young kids. Here's the good news. I mean, you love your children, but they're going to eventually grow up and move away. And during this time. You need to teach them lessons about what life is all about. And how to be involved in your community and by running for office. When your kids are young. They I guarantee Leadbetter citizens someday. Like, my kids who are millennials who are costly they live in Washington. They're always protesting something that Donald Trump did my daughter's sending a March on reproductive health there marching with the scientists or LGBTQ communities. I'm really proud of them. And they didn't have me home all the time, and I felt guilty about that. But I also know that my job was the launch them as responsible caring adults into the world. So if you look at the long view of what you're supposed to do as a parent, you can overcome a lot of this guilt that you have if you're running for office, and you're not gonna make every single baseball game or parent teacher conference, and hopefully you have a support system either a spouse, a partner, family friends, and I think that women ought to step up and help other women with childcare on that front. The I never hesitate to. Somebody else's kids. So they can get out and campaign, and I appreciate people helped me out. So we need to support each other lift each other up, and that's that's what I do. Yeah. I think your message about involving children is so important. I actually just made that decision, you know, a couple of weeks ago just thinking like when I give talks and talk about, you know, whatever Justice social Justice or anything equal rights when I can when the contents appropriate. I'm going to bring my kid, you know. How old are your children? My my son is seven okay perfect age. I hope he's been voting every year even elections. You know, take him every vote, and my kids turned eighteen I mean at breakfast, they are greeted with a voter registration form, they are not going to go to school that day until they registered so Siam pressed upon them in my kids were little, but they got their pictures taken with Bill Clinton and L gore. And and all the candidates that are running back, then, you know, just just they know it's important. You know, they they know that public services expected of them in some fashion whether were hand other people's races or contributing or being an advocate, but you're on this planet a short time. And it's not about how much money make. It's about what you do. And in fact, back to what we talked about the outset the influence of my mother when I was growing up, my mother's favorite saying was on our refrigerator and said go into the world, and do well, the more importantly going to the world and do good. And I forget who said that. But my mother had that on our. Refrigerator? And when we we buried her five years ago last month, we actually put that on her tombstone so all for eighteen grandkids would visit grandma in the cemetery. They would see the words that she lived by as an inspiration. And that's the expectation that we should have on our own children that you weeks pecked you to be a contributor someday. And you should watch how we do it. 'cause we're that's our job. It's generational. Iva? Responsibly to teach the next generation to fight for the environment and define for women's rights. And to stand up when someone's bullied, and we have so much power as parents into use it every day, you we're forming these little kids minds she a seven year old that you have. No, they're watching everything you do. And what lessons you can teach by just so your work. Right. Exactly. You know? I I wanna go back to your hashtag. How she does it because this is amazing. So I and I'm really bad at using as tags correctly. So tell me how this works. If I use the hashtag how she does it you'll come in you'll swoop been and give me advice like, you know. Ending out a bat signal is it works. It's actually it's not that engaged. It's it's on my Twitter account. It's a Lieutenant governor Twitter account. So if you go under that that is you can look up the hashtag how she does it in. You'll see all my posts on it. And if you're not on Twitter yourself, it's like new tenant governor HOGAN, and why LT GIO V H O C H U L. And why and so that's my Twitter handle. And if you look under that you'll see the hashtag how she does it. And if you're not on Twitter, you can just Google that. And it'll pop up you don't have to be at Twitter user. So that's where people are setting ideas to us. And what I did. I was on television news and non New York City on Friday about this. And I said, you know, what I've given a lot of advice. I wanna hear a how other women do it not just how she does with respect to me how you do it. So we've asked people to put in sort of their daily survival techniques or how they get along a male. Native profession or disinvite. They haven't had a lift other women up. So we start this ripple effect of women feeling responsibility for other women, and that's how we're going to have a breakthrough in society, and hopefully it more women to run and be expe- taking their positions in boardrooms and asserting their their power that they have and Guinness. Ended him noxious aggressive way is just getting your needs met and getting the needs of your causes met and finding the way to do it. No, I love that. I think that's helpful right now. So I wanna talk about what you've been doing with a New York state in your current position. Right. So you haven't entire women's Justice agenda for twenty nineteen writer is amazing. So talk about some of the things that are part of that agenda. We thought it was really important, particularly with the assault on women's rights currying in Washington. Whether it's this free court, whether it's the president congress or even agency decisions that are affecting women every day that we needed to first of all protect the rights of Roe v. Wade in our. Nate law. We didn't have this. What happened in New York state is that in nineteen seventy we legalized abortion in New York nineteen Seventy-three with Roe v. Wade coming along. It was protected, but we needed to update our laws to make sure it reflected what Roe v Wade allows. So we didn't have this for all these years. In fact, we had opposition to even simply codify Roe v. Wade from conservative elected officials who lost in the last election. Thank god. So what we did was we first while made sure that we had reproductive health coverage in our in our state law, contraception coverage mandating that insurance companies cover contraception making sure that insurance companies cover in vitro fertilization and egg freezing recognizing that. So many young women have for Tillis issues or they want a delay their family. It's all part of family planning or LGBTQ couples wanted to plan families, whatever they choose to. And also return on our talent, I work on that. Realizing that women of color are four times as likely to die in childbirth than white women are and the injustice of that and how we can deal with those bias Caesar during in the medical profession. We have a lot to do with respect to women getting enough pay in the workplace, so I'm working on closing, the gender gap and part of that is a salary history ban, and some states have considered this may be going think in California that's part of the law there, but we want to say is that a lot of women are held back because they don't negotiate a good Sarafina cells read, the beginning of their career myself, for example, when I was a young staff front Capitol Hill, I had left a large law firm took a fifty percent pay cut because I really didn't like the law firm I wanted to work in public service. But I didn't realize that making twenty five thousand I was an attorney the man next me was not an attorney was making more than me. And I didn't know that. And now I would say that hells women backs throughout their careers. If they don't negotiate on behalf of themselves. In a better way in the early part. So we're not allow people to ask what your prior salary history. Is there should be a value attached to a job not your own experiences? And that's what holds a lot of women back. The other challenge we have which is huge is child care. So many women are struggling with the fact that they want to spend more time at the office and further careers in the, you know, whether it's in tech fields, whether it's in the legal profession or here in Wall Street or families that are just trying to work a couple minimum wage jobs and pulled all together if they don't have access to sometimes even around the clock childcare where someone who works the night shift that a hospital cleaning person at of nursing homes throughout the night. Who's watching her kids and excessively affordable? Childcare we're finding is not just a families problem. It is now an economic problem for the state of New York because we're not getting the benefit of the full economic power of women achieving their full potential earning what they deserve. So we are finding out ways and working with partners in the federal government. And other areas where we figure out how to incentivize workplaces to address this need have more flexible hours for women. And in fact, just a great story in the New York Times in the business section on Sunday about a man and wife who were both classmates in Cornell law school both went to big law firms. But when the children came along, you know, she dropped back to two days a week because there's no to watch the kids and he'd propelled himself into a much higher earning position. And how storm it falls back on women to be the ones responsible primarily for child care, and what can society do about that. What can we do to help alleviate that and have more equity in that in that space? But also, we don't have an equal rights amendment at the federal government level or at our state level. And that is unconscionable to me the women's rights movement. Started in New York state way back in eighteen forty eight. When three hundred women gathered in a remote place called Seneca falls. And now, it's a national. Historic landmark place, they gathered and they debated the issues of the time, but women were so fed up even back as far back as eighteen forty eight saying that they're tired of being the property of men. They wanted to have the right to vote. They wanted to have the right to own property, and we're really the birthplace of this. And I say all my speeches to women that is at our DNA to fight to make sure that we protect women every way possible in one of them is to make sure that in our state law that we have an equal rights amendment. So this women's Justice agenda is everything I spoke about, but I'd love to capitol off by the end of our legislative session. Just a nother month away at the end of June to have a new equal rights amendment here in New York. And also make sure that we get the thirty state Virginia has to pass it. So we can finally have a correct our federal constitution and make sure that we take care of the needs of women. Right. You know, I Ron cly today. The house's having hearings for the first time on the rights amendment. Right. And I think. The first time they've had hearings on this in thirty six years, and Carolyn Maloney, my old roommate and congress has really been the champion of this. And she is dedicated to it and choose her husband was related to Alice Paul who first proposed equal rights Mun back in nineteen Twenty-three in the state of New York. So this is a legacy that she's been pushing her entire career, and I couldn't be prouder to know that you know, she's been champing this and within get everyone on board. And finally make a statement what a great statement is for the women of this country. When we have a woman who's elected speaker, one of the most powerful people on this planet Nancy Pelosi, and now so many more women in office, not just in York when congress, but to be able to say that we finally after decades decades of trying we finally have enshrined these rights into our constitution. It is long overdue. Yeah. We don't have time to go into everything that's in the women's Justice agenda, but I'm gonna put it in the show notes because when I was reading through it. I was really impressed like just the, you know, the budget for childcare alone. I think it's something like twenty. Five twenty six million. I think people just really go through that. And see as a model to see what we can apply nationally. I appreciate that. Because we do think that Tripoli what's the rights of women being attacked daily in Washington that states now really have to step up and New York loves to lead on these issues and be a model for others. But simultaneously, we have other states red states. That are sliding backwards. Really starting to find ways to deny reproductive rights and say that you can't have an abortion after a heartbeat is heard which could happen in eighteen days. I mean, there's there's insane things happening all over the country. So so states, like New York and California really have a responsibility to stand firm on behalf of the millions of people represent and to try to make sure that we have some common sense in our policies and don't turn the clock backward to the eighteen hundreds or even priroda reweight. So that's the challenge we face now that didn't exist before Donald Trump was elected president. So what would you say in closing? What would you say to any woman who's sitting back, and she's on the fence like she really wants to do something wants to be an activist or run for office. Would you say to to push her star? It's what are you waiting for? What are you waiting for? You only have one chance to go around and life. And everyday matters. You do not long know how long you've been given to be on this planet, and you need to make sure that every day you're making a difference and bettering the lives of other people and that is your challenge. And that is the legacy you leave to your children when they look at you someday and say, you know, it just like, I was inspired my mother I hope to inspire my daughter and the next generation as well. So so women need to stop thinking about it. And know that they have talents. We need their voices. We need them gauged and step up and just do it. Well, well, attendant governor Kathy hole. Thank you so much for joining me today, really, really inspired me. And thank you for your your life of service. Well, thank you, very much a pleasure to be on your show. Thank you so much for listening to. Today's episode. A hope he found this interview with Kathy HOGAN as inspiring as I did if he did why don't you tweet something about it? Hashtag electorate podcast and let me know again, all the information about the house. She does a campaign and the New York state, women's Justice agenda can be found in the show notes, and you can find that also at electorate dot com slash seventy three electoral dot com slash seven three and also everyday working to make the electorate better to bring you more inspiring guests and women who are doing useful research. Moore writing really interesting books if you want to support that work and you want to elevate the work invoices of women, please subscribe to the electorate on eighteen or wherever you get your podcast. And also, please leave a review reviews are very important for podcasts. Lastly, I'll be posting an ad free version of this episode on patriot on along with my other episodes. 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