Men in Blazes 03/25/20: With Rog's Childhood Friend Jamie Glassman
This is Rebecca Lowe. Will Rebecca if you listen to sub optimal radio and you on this thing to men in. Blazers on the NBC Sports Network. This is Raj from New York City. Beautiful New York City at this time of surreal challenge when so much of what makes us who we are has been taken away from us. A work are sports really are outside life. That's not lived in sweatpants more than ever. In these times we turned. Today's we love to family colleagues friends and say I thought it was an APP time to bring onto this port a Gen. Who's been my best friend from the age of zero? We grew up in Liverpool together. Yes we survived out bizarro schooling level college together. When I moved to America he came over and live with me and Chicago for that first lure issue and when I liked it got married I had to best men my brother knowledge and they spoke and they finesse speech by explaining the choice was a neighboring. Ghana is in their words. No Ages my only brother on my guest. Today is my only friend that is as they say truth in. Huma a speak to this blake four or five times a week. I think the collective memories we Shan't together they really and they they send to me in a way. We learned yesterday that the late Great Kenny roaches pet goat used to send to him partially well. He's the funniest down. I am partially. Because he's if fellay lifelong Evertonian and say to talk all Liverpool Life Liverpool coolest city that is our Everton love and how we've experienced this poor season of Jurgen klopp wonder such complex feelings. A welcome to the port from his home. Now in Crouch and London my best in the world. Oh it's Mr Jamie glassman laugh. Eliah good now J. I really just hearing your voice in The Hague mission accomplished soothing. Because you have been my friend singer in his right. Since the years era believes there is a member of the you've got you remember us in a sample together age around to I tried to. I've tried to clear that one for memory but it's my earliest memory is a some books as you call them. In America of me. Being in a sun box wave Mike Asks Jamie and flinging sound into his face which made him cry. And your mother. This is my earliest memory. Mother coming over saying why are you crying? Jamie and she explained to. I've turned something you and she said well just going through some send in his parenting many states that she probably remembered that when those few years when she would try to keep me away from you and not a not hassle that the Times that you called. She was seen as a bad influence on me for a long time. When it's it's safe to say that you suffer the horror of no meat pre much better than anyone in the world and the joy of all is though I keep finding new things out about you because you and I. A lifelong lulling flung Evertonians. But this podcast was precipitated by chat. We had just this Monday in which you blew me away. Jamie last month because you told me how you became a blue in the first place. Well I remember I wasn't. I'm not likely I was undecided until the age of around six and a half and I've got a very strong memory of of being given a choice who were are you. Are you in Evin? Fan Rollo for fun. I didn't have a good answer. 'cause you were inevitable phone. A my dad was never been found but Atherton machine and and Liverpool had Kenny Dalglish and will winning the league every year. Marin Marine European Cup final it was and I I chose you and my Dad. Over decades of glory enjoy or a different a different form of glory. Enjoy I suppose. I won't break this down because this is an amazing story. We should say you dad the great earth. Ahl just an incredibly chill man of one that who died far too young using noble client brilliant. Genta valley had incredible panacea. Dad It was so like him. Not many parents would do this but it was so like him to not want to influence you and empower you at the age of six to me. Let's just say you don't like to be hyperbolic. But the most important decision that child can make solo that is parenting. Because he was one of those like when he was growing up him and his uncles and cousins used to sit. Apparently nine of them used to be season ticket holders and go to Goodison every single week and sit in a line was very much a hands off parents and waited for me to make the decision. I made the right one for him. But did you did you did you. Because as you say this Liverpool when we were kids we were born into an era in which Liverpool began to win everything. Everything I mean. It felt like every year they were driving through the city on the back of a birth before during thronging crowds. They went away. They went right down the bottom of my road. It was just every year they were rubbing my face. It would be a league trophy or a European cups or sometimes both flew flew through chewing gum off the back of that birth which people would fight for. I'd always get pack. Chew it guiltily home and the my own efforts and posters on my bed but they were winning everything and you. Won't you tell me on Monday? You'll never you've never been sure if this decision to support evidence was the best decision all the worst decision you've ever made any like. It was an inevitable decision. I couldn't I can't imagine what my life I can't imagine what my life would have been like. If I've been level fan. I know it would have been filled with a different type of joy a an unadulterated one not tinged with not finished with Sam want. We spoke Monday. You said to me which was lovely. You said you are so glad that you became inevitable. Because if you hadn't he said you and I would not have become such great friend I stay. That's probably true. I think you know definitely the time it was a big bonding funding Parvathi friendships. When we were kids I mean later on. We moved onto other things. But I think it's probably it's given us. I mean how have we found over the past twenty years and just talk about what's going on before the game during the game after the game? Sometimes we don't use. Words is just fifty minutes of sobbing. When I say sometimes I mean a weekly basis but I loved what you said that we wouldn't be such good friends because when I put the phone down to you at this thing called if you chosen Liverpool Jay. Maybe you'd have you'd have for the friends better friends who once you understand. Victory and joy as well. As I've brought to the table I could have lived a life of great joy and silverware but instead I got you and Swinson Roundabouts Left Roper Frost. The path taken. I recently made a film about Liverpool's history in the shadow of the cope and to make it. It was a person the grueling experience having to ask dozens of red spends to just describe their heroes because they have so bloody many Kevin Keegan King. Kenny Dalglish Uniroyal Robbie Fowler God Stevie j Nando Sodas just Louis swear res- Omaha. There were so many and I was just like a horrific three days of filming. I was just genuinely like make it. Stop make it so. It says something about evison that. Tony Abbott was Afo CARE OF EVERTONIANS. Because we just didn't have we didn't have decades of goalscorers winners to celebrate this bass. Fishing is worth a trophy. Do something about full in those days. That was the defined absent. And you know we like to think we we had a few GR- Gloria's are teenagers in our teenage years have innocent. Were were an incredible club to watch. And he think about that first eleven and they just they look like they were. GonNa win every game but because of the history user that didn't stop when they played against Liverpool and you would just terrified that you know every other week he could be everyone but when it came to playing Liverpool You will never guarantee you up. You expect to dropping you. Do you talk about when efforts and come up against Liverpool and just not fair in the belly. I mean the Milk Cup final nine thousand nine hundred four eight top three magnificent collective movement of our youth and I think public speaking for everyone who is alive emergency time because Everton and Liverpool both reached the final still the cup. The Cup was what it was called. Then the counter bow. What it's called now. They reached the final at Wembley and this was against a backdrop of the Thatcher era when Liverpool the city because of the government policies was really on its knees financially culturally perceived by the rest of the country to be a wasteland for Russell J it was less a football game it was just the most bursting moment of civic pride right. It was back. In the days when Everton the funds through those more friendly camaraderie between the two of them. I feel like it's not quite the same now. There's more of an antipathy between the funds to clubs but right the back then you had eighty thousand people go down from Liverpool to London to watch the game and the more I remember there were like one hour a fool. Liverpudlian males attended attendance at the game. One Hundred Thousand Street to Liverpool. Were empty that day. There was just a moderate of scousers invading. Yeah coming from the north which we we knew we were seen as barbarians. We invaded London Liverpool red and blue ONA entire city. We all went everywhere with a time when you walk around. Wembley you knew everyone that gate but you. Obviously the famous moment of that final is when it ended in a draw and the whole crowd. The two teams together start walking round the pitch cheering the funds and the whole crowd. All hundred thousand started instead of cheering team. Started Cheering Merseyside And it was it was. I mean I was thirteen time. It was pre- moving mercy mercy seig. Mercy's we bellowed that we believe that it wasn't about the football. It really was about our chance to show defiance to those Londono that we were alive. We're alive and we were winning. It was incredible. Unity to be candid. Everyone felt unit. Say for me I was absolutely just pent up furious. Everything got screwed thing. Alan Hansen Humble. The goal-bound shot right in front of where we were sitting at Jimmy. Adrian Heath drilled one end from close-range penalty given evidence screwed again. Liverpool won the replay. Three days later you in case you're wondering but the funny thing about that game. I loved every second of that trip but one of my top. Three memories of that game is stopping off at one of the first McDonald's in Britain on the way to the match I had my first ever chicken mcnuggets and it tasted. Oh Daniel Balloon for me. It's magnificent by nine thousand nine hundred. Eighty five Ashburton widely recognized as one of the best teams in Europe. Not What team? We reached the final of the European Cup. Winners Cup kind of Europa League predescessor. We'd smash by Munich in the semifinal facing Austrians Rapid Vienna. Here's what's amazing to me about this game. You told me on Monday that you turned on the television to watch that final and he said I never doubted Everton. Were going to win. You didn't sow evitable going to win most things at the time you we were such good side we was so strong that the back and so creative upfront and we were we. Were unstoppable and I remember become random watching it with Matanza friends and those kind of twenty surround someone who wasn't really a nervousness just an excitement yes the appetizer. GonNa Winson European Silverware. Tonight's come on kept that Jay. Can we pause that because the concept of an Everton who wins things our audience and not even going to be able to conceive of that? It's like trying to think about me with had no how no way I mean. It is astonishing because we have seen evidence. Lifetime win things but when I look back on my life I don't really remember the wind so much the happiness and the word green movements of happiness Everton winning. Fa curbs Everton winning the league. Eighty four eighty five eighty six eighty seven. It's the savage cruel twisted losses. I remember that's what defines me. Why is that they have more? It's the hope that kills you. I remember this ad is also there was an FA Cup. Final in the eighties was eighty. Five eight six show where again if livable efforts and again eighty six? We were so good we were so good and if it was any other club you we would have beaten them but they just had US. They had over us and we went up. We went one. Lineker scored carry one that up and then Ian Rush equalised and the whizzes statistic at the time and I don't know if this went all the way through to the end of his career think it might have gone for the whole of this guy's career that whenever Ian Rush School would Liverpool did not lose and like at this point he'd been playing for the full. We can week out for like eight or nine years and scoring twenty five. Thirty goes to season and Liverpool never lost when he scored and so as soon as he'd schools it was like okay. That was it you you knew what was coming. He scored again. And then the mighty Craig. Johnston got the third three one. We lost lousy guy with a terrible parent. Tiny shorts. Remember this tiny show. Yemi homemade package package. We'll say in rush genuinely does for me if you never saw him play. He had a mustache. The face and the physicality of really innate block accountant would have been like you think. He's pretty good. He's he plays in the in some cleverly in in in Akron Ohio. But he was he worked so hard he was so clinical so lethal any her everton more than any of the plan November. Six nine thousand eight hundred Sade into my brain at Goodison. Livable won the Dobbie to might horror till I eleven year old Raj is horrid. They weren't five Bloody Nail Ian Rush scored four times in that. Gay Matata the saying by them. You always used to say it only takes a second to score a goal Roach which was on his way of saying that a game can always turn the game can always you know you can always get back into things so in my head I was not game with just the complete naievety and optimism of a child and I still believe even three meltdown. Still believe four hundred down to me. We were five zero down and in my kitty head. Remember this only takes second score a goal so Ergo as long as five seconds left in the game even five nil bloody well down. There was still a chance for. Everton to get back into this. My heroes could still get back into this and grab a point and as we entered the eighteen th minute j just bedraggled humiliated utterly crept on turnaround about that and said Ovo Damon smiled and I said it only takes a second to score a goal Roy and he turned to me just Ashen faced and screamed. Don't be bloody stupid real pops more than any Dama Life J. That was when I realized everything. I've been told with ally before you told me what I've said I was going to predict that those executives. I also remember a five nil where we beat Monday night at five. Nicholson and that was an experience There was something every time we got the ball. We looked like we were going to school. It was incredible and then eventually we we game ended five nail. I remember the next day going into into Lebowitz. The local Deli and Bali. Lap fits the old miner. Who SMELLS OF HERRING? The lovely man. Who SMELT HERRING? Who ran this shot for jet for decades Lean Dover to me and your time is and I I I said No. It's five past year nights on this mobile where I was. Yeah I was sharing in the grownups. Grownups wanted to share a joke and I was I was. I was a big yard love while he love. You've been saving up joke for forty years. I I remember by remember our mean that scares me savagely April third knowing ninety nine Darby Day I was back from Chicago. Semi we got tickets. Go to unfilled to what Jefferson loose to Liverpool. Three takes just to throw in some context. They've been one hundred and twenty curry total Darby's in a lifetime Jay and if it's football club of one just five times unfilled in a lifetime. This is astonishing to me. I counted them up before we got on the phone. And in this one this is not one of them just to be clear. Yes Everton again. This is now a pattern so terrifying Everton Lois into false hope scored I in the first minute the great ball alleviate decor too early too early we screamed even as the ball span in the back in Liverpool Nat local ended up winning three two two gay most famous Liverpool fans. Yeah because Robie Foul God's will be Phallic God scored twice and after I go Yup. It's a game where he celebrated miming snorting cocaine along the white lines of the penalty box to Moco Everton fans who kept chanting that he was a cocaine. We leave the game early at Jelly. We missed the goal. Levinson got a late friendly. Jeffers goal of the stadium ruled but we with best mate. Charlie's a big Red Skull Medical. Pass on this car. Which means you can park anywhere. And He'd start the call Roy outside of unfilled remember. You and me would just leaning against his car. When the final whistle when when the final whistle goes particular Darby but any football match just a wave nomi crushing people. Just charge the ground. That's what we go to witness. Just thousands of people running with with anxiety with anger. Everyone to get either. I guess defy auto flight one or the other and the front of the pack is just you see everyone running as fast as they can be running faster than anyone else towards us on the one road. Iran feel where we were the biggest loser in the stadium and it can't he looks it. Looks like Tony Hale would play him in a movie. This was this was Liverpool Gary Walsh and he was arrested and he was charging for his life. This guy. That's what we you could only see. Just I'm crapping his pants as he was looking behind trying to get ahead of people who wanted to beat him up sprinting ahead of the pack and yet when he came to worst lean against the count even in his fair. East e- stopped because there was something important in needs it to say poor message he wanted to deliver to us. Everton had been beaten and the biggest loser in Liverpool. Turn around to Marcus. What did he say? J. Focused Tom. Tom and heads fulcher off folk. Also how many syllables were there? In the would foot McKie four call. It was it was like an oasis version of full cough POM POM. I have rarely felt more degraded the heck up for a number of years after in. You know in defiance of that moment. God that's amazing shave mine off almost immediately. That is the big difference between you and Paul being in Evanston FEM is revelling in being degraded. And so one of the fascinating parts of this season for me kind of ask you about this. Incredible SEASON OF LIVERPOOL. One of win after win of collective tenacity of big verge of from three of like it can cope and his Jewish passion has been being forced to confront the extent to which my happinesses inevitably found for the last thirty years. I've realized Mahara how much of it is revolved around Liverpool. Not Winning the tightly. Either what will we be left with if Liverpool given this title with its trophy and it's asterisk well we'd be left just with our Self Sheldon Freud. The happiness in our own failure is ano- Evanson will rise again. We'll wait. Could I teach thing being the best thing about being an episode? In which is the best thing about is? It prepares for me to confront the darkness the sheer horror of life. I feel sorry for the fans because they have no also white so important for me to have my kids become blues. I work so hard. It's so bloody hard Honda's I've ever worked anything in my life to be honest but you sagely took the same approach is she taught did when it came figuring so to have the choice the choice tell us how that went my son allies now nine. He was similar to me around. Six and a half seventy wasn't sure what team is supported. The difference for me is we live in London. We live about a mile away from from optional and a mile and a half away from the Spurs Stadium and it goes to school and his friends awe. Well actually the summit. Some of them are spurs fans and some of them are found in some of the funds. None of them are. Everson funds and my wife was saying you should just. He's never going to be nervous and fun. Just bomb a spurs. You always proper western. She lives in a blessed time but she wouldn't fool sat on him. Either she's like just remove Gamma Spurs Kit. Get into a spurs fan or an awesome finding cut. Your losses didn't listen and I couldn't do it and three of his four of his closest friends at school all funds and he's gone to the dark side and he my son now is a liberal fan and pop me feels a great scientists that we will not share in this great thing for decades to come and fills a great relief that he's going to know a joy that I will never know which is decades if silver wet and you won't you best for your children right you do but to suffer what you've suffered over the past. Twelve months I mean when Liverpool beat Tottenham Hotspur in the Champions League final lost. Some of what? What did your then was eight. Eight years of age he was. He was eight the time and he was. He's like DOT DOT ACCAN- Account. Describe to you what it's like to see. Liverpool winning this way too is a beetle found for years and airy was they finally won the Champions League and Lesson to ask them. I just had to put my arm around him and said you know happy fleece on a map a flame. What did it feel like deep inside in moment as a blue being patronised by eight year old? Liverpool points like Tall in fiddler on the roof when his door to marry the Cossack by the line of Evertonians had come to an end? You Mary's you never been able to enter the promised land. Exactly exactly I showed him. I is you know. We've boo travels to the desert together and I showed in the promised land but I could never enter into with him. The Promised Land may not all it's cracked up to be believe me parenthetically must be a terrible father for making all my Kids Blues. Right dance between you and your goat. I wouldn't make that judgment. The time will come. The TIME WILL COME NOT WON'T BE THIS YEAR. It won't be next year. We'll be the next five to ten fifteen twenty years. If you hold out long enough Lori will come goodison again by your own for fifteen to twenty years. I DID ASK THEM ALL. My kids do for them. A blue and I asked them ahead of this. What do they feel to prepare for this? Podcast yet did some research. I said to each one of my kids together at the dinner table. By the way one of the great joys of this awfulness the silver lining of the awfulness is having a family dinner every single night. Just trying to have compensation of meaning and this was not one of them because I made the mistake of asking them kids. Would you feel Everton of given you in your life or does it offer you? What what what popular identity does it? Does it represent you ready for this because there is down so back my second son? Who's normally the quietest quickest to respond? He just genuinely just didn't have to think for a second is is. If you've been waiting a whole time for this question. Said what does it bring to you? He just looked and he said small victories. Said what do you mean? And he said that the Newcastle game this season when we were two nil up until the ninety four th minute and somehow drew to he said if he can survive experience you can survive life own mind Lord. How early manage to mess up your kids. The GETS WORSE MAKE Zion Matata eleven smaller than all of us. She said being Evertonian. We have more joy than any other team. Because when we beat Manchester United Fall Nell we overflow with joy we dance and Liverpool fans. Don't because it happens to them like thirty five times a season. That's beautiful that's beautiful. She's I'm Su-. She's clearly taken her optimism from Vanessa. My wife off my youngest. He said he's a he said. After a while thinking you said you learned to get my hating Liverpool and just willing manet and sell out to leave. I've done a terrible thing. And then some my oldest sixteen. He said bonding and shed experience with you. Doubt shouting at the television for a team who will only sell young players too early or by great players too late when they are past their shelf life is eternal hoop and then he came back into the room and he said that you do know that if Everton ever win the league you'll pants will be so stained like my do is now never been proud self clues by asking you. What does it mean to you to be inevitable and made so much and it is a Means all those things you kids have nailed it. It means reveling in the highs and understanding and living with the lows and it and it's a bones with you an Abon with my dad and it is a constant throughout my life. They're always there via doesn't matter. If there is disappointment it's just a constant is ultimately what it means to me. Jay went ahead cost that song that played whenever soon. Run out that Tony Tony. Tony Little Tunnel. Oh it doesn't mean that things to me it really does. It's my relationship with with my grandfather. Sam The first Blake ever in our family for my father. Judge OR LEVER WITH J. With You Dad. I mean a great Blais memory. Be a blessing with my kids. I hope I hope my kids kids. Please make them please please please please. Please made them blues. I mean really it. Means THE ARK OF LIFE. It really does it. Means the Ark of life and football as a purveyor of memory an conveyor of love. I love you Jamie. I really love you to bench. I love you Everton Football Club but I love you. I really even more than love. Big Duncan Ferguson courage.