Do you really really believe in hell that into place a duck? Ancient evil slumbers. Relates to return in the absence of light don's. Era things go bump in the night. Otherwise. Handsome. This is now playings hell boy retrospective series world. Here. I hosted by Jacob didn't I kill you ready. Stewart to keep doing this, rotten eggs and safety mankind. Edge Arnie good. The bad. And the worst. This fogcast may contain detail spoilers end hellish language. My ankle. Trump's listener discretion is the mayor. Playing sean. Let's go fights. They were discussing hell boy starring David harbour meal. Jovovich Ian, McShane Sasha lane and you'll day Kim and Thomas Haden church directed by you'll Marshall this is the now playing co host who relies on jokes as a way to normalize arming and Stewart and this the host who deserve the two thousand foot high statue in my honor made with the bones of enemies Jakup. You have a lot of enemies take. I do make it three thousand feet every aqua man listener apparently. Well, you're here at a different comic franchise where back at dark horse with elbowed eleven years after help to without year, they'll Toro we get I guess, I would call this a soft reboot. They don't want you to totally forget what had been done before. But it won't be in continuity. Yeah. I wouldn't even call it. Softly. It's just a wreath food. It's starting over the origins a little bit different. I mean, they gotta stick to the things that are in the comic book, more or less. But yeah, this totally different five totally different feeling than those dill Torah ones did help to not do. Well, because I can't remember the conversation. We had a few years ago. But I know there had been talk for years everybody wanted hell boy three they wanted Ghirma back. They wanted Ron Perlman back when you say everyone you mean, everyone that saw elbow to. Okay. So that's answering my quick. Yeah. Yeah. It did not do well compared to the budget. Add. Ahead more of a budget than the first one that I one was moderately successful. That's where we got the second one that second one did not make it's money back. And yet it's the better fill it is. I'm just gonna late online elbow. His never been a hit twenty three million in America for the first one thirty four million for the second. That's not opening weekend. That's total gross. And yet number three might be lucky to hit those numbers domestically. But that said, it is hard to imagine this franchise for me that is never seen a comic or wouldn't even necessarily know that it was based on a comic. If I wasn't on the show with you guys. It's hard for me to imagine it without gear won't del Toro. And certainly you would think after winning the Oscar for shape of water. He would have the clout to be coming back and saying I am doing this. And you're going to let me instead he's off remaking Pinocchio for net. Flicks. I can't think of something I want to see less than that wasn't the shape of water. Just a neighbor. And piece of fan thick anyway. Slash. Yes slash Vic. Maybe well a lot of this happened before Ghirma won his Oscar back in twenty seventeen. I remember Jacob you saying, Mike MC Nola. The creator of the hell boy comic said hashtag, not my hell. Boy, right. His comic is his comic. And Guillermo vision did not jibe and for those that didn't read the comic tours vision. I love it. I love what he did. It is different than the comic book though. And I remember seeing Mike Nola panels at comic con, and he would make little comments about changes they've made and he didn't seem pleased with it. Well, back in sixteen seventeen MiG Nola directly worked with the writer of this film. Andrew Cosby, who is creator of boom comics, he launched the entire comic company. Okay. He also did the scifi show, you Rica. If you remember that it was kind of twin peaks of the new millennium vaguely, remember the name. I never watched it. But they were working together on a sequel that would bring hell boy back to MC Knowle's vision. And hopefully box office prosperity. And they offered gear. Mo and again, this was twenty seventeen and honorary producers title just to get Ron Perlman back in the makeup. Oh, so they did want Ron Perlman. Yes. How could you not want Ron Perlman? I think a lot because this has gotten awful reviews. I think a lot of it's because people just love what del Toro dead, and this is a different direction. We'll talk about but Perlman come on you might not get del Toro get parole and back in the suit. I mean, this is totally subjective. But when I went and so us recently with a friend this trailer came on there. Like, oh, I love this. I wanna see it. And then like thirty seconds in wait a minute that ain't hell boy. And they're like ain't seeing that they felt betrayed like they were being tricked into seeing an artificial held the funny thing is they released a photo still David harbor in the hell boy makeup and everyone's like just looks like wrong Perlman. We'll talk about what happened when that on screen. But yeah, that was the. Response. Why didn't you just get round Perlman? It looks like the same character looks like him already in that makeup. Well, Ron Perlman wasn't getting back in the makeup unless del Toro was behind the camera. He has allegiance to del Toro for that. I mean, keep in mind, he's followed del Toro to Pacific rim as well. I mean, he's del Toro's, buddy. And was not going to do this. And it was going to be just called hell boy rise of the blood Queen. And it was going to be the third installments in continuity when they realized Perlman wasn't coming back del Toro wasn't coming back. They hired Neil Marshall as director there like all, right? Let's just reboot. This whole thing. It is hell boy twenty nineteen and it's going to be darker more gruesome hard are rated. Yeah. I think that was clearly the thing that they were pushing was and I didn't realize that when I saw the first hell boy back in two thousand four I thought. Wow. This was an R rated movie. And then I was like, oh, no it's only PG thirteen I came into this one thinking, well, they've got to be shooting for the same. Cd thirteen audience. I'll tell you the scene where I realized there's just no way that this could be there's. Yeah, there's definitely yeah. See I think I know which one you're talking about. But that was one of the big things like, oh, we're going are rated I'm like, okay. Maybe they could go a little bit more gruesome with all the different monsters. They'll Toro's vision was more of a fairytale. And I think they wanted to go in that different direction where they could be a little bit more gruesome. I remember the red band trailer came out, and you could hear them saying the F word if that's the thing you wanna hear elbow save. But yeah, they definitely wanted to push that this is a harder edge. And this director Neil Marshall. He's a horrid guy. Right. You know? Here's the thing. Like, I liked the descent, but that was fourteen years ago, that's even longer than hell boy to this guy like hot off of anything. I couldn't see that his movies ever made any money. I think the descendant is as big as film, right because I've seen one other one of his dog soldiers, which is like aware wolf military movie. And I get why has a cult following with people in. To horror, and that it wasn't great. But I could see the appeal there, but he has been doing a lot of television. It seems if you've directed game of thrones. They wanna throw movies at you. Okay. He did a couple of of game of thrones. He did an episode of Westworld a couple of lost in space. So he's done prestige television. He's also worked on films and begs the question, why is this coming back as a movie when? Yeah, it seems like TV is hotter than the movies and their star the new run Perlman, also TV guy. I don't know David harbour. I saw to episodes of stranger things. I don't even remember him in it. Like, he wasn't the focal point. Yeah. He's one of the big characters. I think more in the second season. I've watched bolt seasons. I don't know if he's been in it. I'm sure he's been another stuff. I don't know anything else except stranger things when it comes to the David harbour. I didn't recognize him underneath all that makeup. I actually thought they had like teenager twenty-something under there because of the long hair and everything I thought he looked really really young. But I mean, we've. Talked about movies. He's banning. I mean suicide squad he was taller and that to one of the military guys Arnie by boy is that what they're hanging their hat on who we should be excited about our people that have made their name in TV. And because I haven't watched these shows I came into this movie with zero expectation I wanna say I wasn't against it. I had read the bad reviews, but I'm not going to turn against it. Because gear we'll del Toro and Ron Perlman aren't involved. They may bad movies. I'll be honest. There's been many of their films I have not enjoyed crimson peak. So if a new director has vision, I'm okay with following that new vision, I agree. I was a little disappointed. I just because I know it was a passion project for gear. It wasn't about the money. He had a story to tell he wanted to finish his trilogy. A lot of time has passed. And I don't know if they could have gotten all of the cast back together, you know, some Blair is having some medical problems. I think they would have. Had trouble following with her pregnancy. Twin story line. Yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking of. Plus, I haven't seen David Hyde Pierce acts and spam lot. So I don't know if we could have continued in that same vein, but I was open to this new vision. I saw this at five pm on a Tuesday afternoon because I was at Star Wars celebration. And I just wanna thank probably twenty five or more. Now playing listeners who approached me at the show and said, they enjoy the podcast. Thank you for those kind words, but on a Tuesday afternoon, I went in knowing that there were unkind things being said about it. But I'm like, you know, I enjoy hill. Boy in the previous movies, I've read a couple Idi bitty hell, boy comics, and that's about it any bitty. Meaning it's basically hell boy muppet babies. Yes. He's very cute. My eight year old loves those comics, they're making the same mistake. I mean, we talked about two thousand eight part of the problem of why hell boy to maybe only made thirty four million. Was it was a summer of big superhero movies, ironman, incredible hulk dark night it got lost in the shuffle. Putting it out sandwiched between Shas AM and in game. If foolish I know they wanted to put this out in January, which would have been perfect. But I think they said the effects weren't done which I'm not sure if. They are. But anyway, I'm not saying that they weren't planning for a better release. But this seems like a particularly bad time to release this fill it came in number three. She's AM held number one for a second weekend. Yeah. Both big offs beat it at the box office. There's also this movie little about like a woman turned into a child that kick. It's ass and strangely. I know nothing about little except we talked about it during big Zam. I never saw a trailer for little I never saw review of little if it wasn't for you. I wouldn't even know this little movie exists. So the fact that it beat hell boy, I got a text from Jacob, by the way, there's two stinger scenes at help boy one in the middle and one of the end, I'm like, those are setting sequels that will never happen. I knew that going in. Yes. It is in the air. Sometimes we can only speculate. But because we're taping. This releasing it a week late. We all know this has been deemed a big box office bomb who knew that releasing a movie about a demon right before Easter woulda flopped. I just can't imagine. Yeah. A hard are rated the about a demon. I mean, again, the fact that they even conceived it for the big screen given that he such a cult figure. I feel like a scifi TV show or something where this character is going to excel it doesn't seem like he has the big appeal. The only thing I could compare them to and I'm sure it must have been on their mind is dead pool. If he can be as a reverent and are rated and funny as dead pool, then maybe can have that kind of gross. But then maybe can have that kind of gross. But they're comparing two very different things in the end. The other thing is they kept the budget on this clamps down. They estimated spent fifty. Million. And let me tell you the lack of money is on the screen, those affects you referenced. And I'm not gonna say one hundred percent we couldn't get a sequel because we've seen those films that bomb here. But do so well in China, and the sequel comes absolutely alita battle angel is a big hit, by the way. Who knew? Yeah. So the fact that in just you ever sees yet it could make it's money back. You could even be a profitable film for Lionsgate where here to review this movie and not speculate on the future Arnie give him the plot. And we'll talk about hell boy two thousand nineteen at the end of World War Two Hitler's Nazis. Tried to summon a demon to help them win the war. They were stopped by lobster Johnson. A superhero Nazi killer played by Thomas Haden church. Can't wait to talk about it. He was not somebody. I was expecting to be seeing in the theater this weekend. Either was by favorite healthcare or couldn't believe he showed up at a movie already recommend. But the demon they summoned was a devilish baby with a brick hand horns and a tail a group of demon hunters led by professor Trevor Broughton home have been killing demons worldwide. But at the sight of this baby Britain home decides to raise this hell, boy as a son we then jump to modern day and hell boy is played by David harbour, his father brought home played by Ian McShane has founded the government organization the bureau for paranormal research and defense or be PRD for short and hell boy is one of his agents things go to hell though. When a pig like fairy named grew against wants revenge on hell boy for previous attack and to do this. He raises new may played by me Yovich, the blood Queen who tried to destroy the world until stopped by King, Arthur and Merlin. Her body was dismembered. Parts spread across England. But grew rich gets the pieces and puts the blood Queen back together again help boy tries to stop this with the aid of Alice Monahan aside. Psychic medium played by Sasha lane as well as Ben daimyo aware cheetah played by Daniel day. Kim daimyo doesn't trust homeboy. And so he carries a special bullet that can kill the half. Demon the blood Queen. However doesn't wanna kill hell boy. But rather partner with him. She kills Greg and tries to convince hell boy that together they can make the world of safe place for demons by killing all the humans when he refuses. She kills Bruton home and unleashes a plague upon England it turns out though that hell boy is half human. And wouldn't you know, it the last surviving descendant of King Arthur as such he's able to wield Excalibur and behead the blood Queen seeing that hell boy can be trusted daimyo throws away his help way killing bullet and daimyo hell boy and Alice become a new squad of continuing without Britain home, and they discover a tank containing Abe Sapien as credits. Roll. That's my first impression coming into this movie is I wasn't sure I never even thought does help have a different crew. I just picture. It was always Hello boy and say and the ones we saw the movie here, we got Britain home, we got hell boy, but they're going to replace the crew. So I think that's a good way to go about it. Yeah. I felt like they definitely wanted to set themselves apart. Again, if you've read BB are, you know, who daimyo is Allah shows up. This is mostly based off. This is what blew my mind when I was reading all the production stuff is that they were going to adapt. The story line the wild hunt, which is like the beginning of the end of hell, boy, if the comics it all ends withheld and hell that's the name of the series. But like there's only a couple more story arcs before. Hell boy dies in the comics. When you get to the wild hunt like this ramps. Everything of this is where you find out. He's a descendant of King Arthur just blowing mind that they were going this late into the mythology to adapt a new film reboot. And we've always seen this symbol for the BP. It's hand holding a sword. I never gave it much consideration. But this is not something new for this film. It is always been of the idea. That hell boy is a descendant of king. Arthur that is x caliber in the symbol. No. I don't think it is. Because the has always had that symbol in the comics. I don't know of big Nola came up with this idea that early on. So I think it's a happy coincidence. Okay. Or maybe he was trying to come up with a back story for a simple. He thought was cool and couldn't justify previously. But certainly when they begin this movie. That's the first person we meet king. Arthur and Merlin are writing in the dark ages five seventeen AD, and they're writing up to this hill to surrender to the blood Queen because humankind all the Britons have been dealing with an invasion of monsters. Yeah. I think this is their excuse for the black plague. It's actually this blood Queen has releasing this plate yet. They re count a lot of the stuff from the golden army where fairies and humans, and they couldn't get along. And the ferries kind of went away here. They're more or less doing that. Same story line. I feel I it's just how it looks different. It's there is humans and witches and demons and fairies and goblins and they couldn't get along. So one had to go. Yeah. And certainly when you look at this time that there was a lot of invasions happening in England all the Saxons invading, but it has been popular to look at that conflict through the lens of monsters. If you look at beowulf or what have you here? I don't think this is a metaphor for anything. I think it's just the clash that has always been the subtext of hell boy movies the world of monsters and fantasy butting up against the world of the humans, and they'll be a character that comes from both worlds. How will he rectify his lineage when we start off with king? Arthur all I could think about is how much King Arthur we have had in movies lately, it just feels like first of all aqua, man. But then also the kid who would be king transformers the last night King Arthur legend of the sword. It just feels. Like, somebody really wants to make King Arthur thing in theaters, it's public domain. It's free. Yes. That would be my guess is that we don't have to pay anybody for a character that everyone knows or presumably everyone knows I gotta say though during this opening I went in. I saw that thirteen percent Ron tomatoes score. And during this opening you're getting this kind of data stuff that I typically don't like doesn't look good. And I'm like, oh, no. This is going to be bad. This is why it's thirteen percent. Like this opening scene really worried me it worried me as well. I mean, it is a data dump it's talking about blood Queen and Merlin and king. Arthur and something there's another witch that like betrays her, I guess, she comes back. Exactly, I have no idea what the betrayal was or lie. The betrayal occurred. What did this other witch get out of the betrayal, and I figure that it's going to be this other witch who's the villain now? Right because she betrayed the blood Queen. So now, maybe she's the blood. Princess or something. I don't know. But it's putting a lot in here. I thought also maybe Merlin was a traitor. I have no idea which way this is going. It's out over thinking. It's really not that big a deal, but they seem to muddy it up part of my trouble focusing is that I didn't recognize Yovich. How could you recognize her? I thought it was Eva green who is like Tim Burton's Goto leading lady. And I don't know she just if not being directed by someone named Paul W s Anderson, and I don't think she would work. So I just I couldn't imagine her booking gig. That didn't involve her husband. If it makes you feel any better. I didn't recognize her either. I'm staring the whole time. I'm like did. They Kate shed put with who is that actors. I knew she was familiar, and they're doing some visual trick here to where it's all in black and white, but she's in this red robe, so really all your paying attention to is the color red, which is led flowing out of her and the robe and it just miss her. I recognized or just because I knew she was in this, and I didn't. Go through that whole resident evil series. I you guys like my last memory of her is probably like, the fifth element. I'm like going to even be able to understand her. I gotta say she's much more. I understand her. Now like that accent is not as thick as I remember it being it's not even presence in the resident evil movie. She's very intelligible. Okay. I just think of her always having an accent, probably because a fifth element where she talks weird, but she's hacked up. We see the her blood go into the tree we see all the monsters go away, and we see her body divvied up in six different crates being written up by six different horsemen. And so we know the setup for this film. It will be a treasure hunt to reassemble this blood Queen, and I guess release a play again. But where we go the next scene. The first big surprise for me. Huge smile on my face is tempered as I was just like seeing this. You seem like, oh, no this is going to be bad. They not only adapted the wild hunt. They also adapted when help way was a lucrative wrestler. Beco- like this is a story. Line where he wrestled vampire Luca doors, and they go monster hunting like our shot of hell boys him getting drunk Mexico and having to fight a what another BP agent that they've lost track. Oh, yeah. This is what tells me this is a Sofri boot and not a total reboot. 'cause if you're totally rebooting this, you would not have a character. That is well integrated into the force. You would tell an origin for hell boy. And we would see him first meeting Papa and all of that stuff here. He's going down to Tijuana to see his friend Esteban. And yeah, it's a joke. That's telegraphed. But still very funny of he was opposed to be investigating a cult of vampires and disappeared three weeks ago. Why isn't he getting back to me? Well, of course, it's because he's a vampire now, and they find that out in the middle of the Luca door of match. But I guess what you call us off three Buddhist kind of what I do to looking at the incredible hole. The incredible hulk is a reboot of Anglia's hulk. But they don't read till the origin story and things. So that you. Could just kind of go with it and not tell the same story again. I LA amazing spider, man. But I know because again, the crew is different. And also we hear held boy getting this order from Bruton home in McShane Bruton home is alive. He died in that first movie and he's much younger. Now played by Ian, McShane, another big television actor American gods. I'm really looking forward to seeing him and John wick three the summer. I was gonna say I saw the John wick three trailer during this. I'm like, oh, I'm going to see him in a few minutes. I'll always think of him for deadwood. But I don't think he's in a younger than John hurt at all. Well, John hurt was playing much older though. He was playing little old, man. Greybeard old. Yeah. The way Bruton home has played in this. It's it's the whole attitude of the film like we're going to be younger and edgier in McShane just as a different vibe than John hurt. Does. I like McShane. I like this opening I even liked this actor playing hell boy. But I. I have to say it throws me for a loop. That everything that we see here has no bearing on the plot. That follows I thought for sure vampires or this character would continue on that. He would end up coming back with hell boy joining the adventure. But no, he is going to be impaled on the ring and die all of this was just so that we could get a Spanish language cover of the scorpions rocky like ERC, I think well, I think what they're trying to show is like here's hell boy to kill one of his own. That's going to be the conflict throughout the film. Again. It's very golden army from that second tour one it's very similar conflict. I just don't think the characterization is as good in this film. So you kind of forget like what was the point of that? But I think that's supposed to be something lingering on hell boy's mind that he had to kill a human. And yet the humans don't really care about killing the supernatural stuff. Yeah. If felt to me like the first half an hour of this film was very scattered. We're hopping all over quite a few things from. Vampires? I'm sure we'll talk about the giants to everything else. It fella greatest hits of the comic. Like people who've read the comics are gonna love seeing this incarnation of the vampire Lucci libra. And maybe no the giant stuff. But to me what hit me was that rocky like a hurricane song? Because I realized my entire thought when I said hell boy looks young. It was that he looks like eighties hair medal to me. And then they're really going to lean into that. With the music here. Oh, yeah. We're gonna get some motley Crue. It's weird because at one point receives room, and I swear I saw like a sonic youth. Poster. I love sonic youth. I grew up listening to sonic youth. And that's why listening here. That'll it's two very different genres. What's does? And what motley Crue does. All right. I've gotta interject here because it is an opportunity here to do something very different than what gear we'll del Toro did. And since he's not coming back, and we're not finishing the trilogy as it was conceived. I have. Have to ask again. I have no problem with David harbour. I don't even know who David harbour is. He comes off in this movie. John Goodman, I feel like his facial expressions and expressions feel very much played the way John Goodman comes off in Coen brothers movie. But if he's held boy, why is it being played by middle aged man that seems like a big mistake. The only reason why they went with Ron Perlman was because Gary won't del Toro loved Ron Perlman. But Ron Perlman was too old for the part of hell, boy, this guy certainly is to. I'm not sure I'm following you because hell boy he ages differently because he's a devil. And I don't know. It is weird trying to is he got a teenager mentality here because it is being played by older, man. So I could see where you might get confused with that. I don't know. I just it's just a nickname. So yeah, he's always going to be called hell boy. No matter how old he is. Well, this story specifically, they don't give hell boy a romantic storyline. That was a big part of the first two movies and this. It is purely about his relationship with his father figure which to me says along with the name hell boy you need to play it young. And I was just thinking about all the like English actors in their twenties that would be up for this Daniel Radcliffe or what's kick ass doing these days. Debbie over. I could never be built. Yeah. That that's the thing. Like if they want to go for that icon ick. Boy, look, you can't get some twenty something British waif in this costume. All right. You guys are married to the comic book, and I'm trying to re conceive this in a new way because I have no association with that comic book. And I think if what gear will Torre was so specific and rebooting it you wanna do something that doesn't look like that. And you want it to feel different. And again, if he's having all this conflict with his he's still going to call him, dad. This all happened in the del Toro stuff though, you bite it forgotten. No, I didn't forget Ron Perlman was too old to be doing that stuff. Which is why all the folk. Was on the new guy in the love triangle with Selma Blair because the dad stuff didn't make any sense. And here it really doesn't make sense seeing a man that should be a father himself trying to say act like a teenager. I had a problem with that too. I really did. And it's just that. I don't understand I found myself thinking in the movie would he ever become Hellman? No, he does not seem to be boyish. She does not seem to be in a state of arrested development. He does not seem to have an adolescent mindset. He will have some coming to terms with his past and his birthright in this movie, but that doesn't make him a boy anymore than people having the same kind of existential crisis in their twenties or thirties. I did think hell boy seemed like a misnomer for this incarnation. Whereas I did not have a problem with Ron Perlman though. So that's kata me. I'm still trying to bridge. Maybe just because I'd lived with Ron Perlman as the character that that was my vision of it. And now, I'm seeing a new vision, and as making me question, and here's what thing that I liked that this movie is doing that. I'd never got a sense of with del Toro. But when he gets this mission to go to London, and there's all of these British details. I suddenly feel this whole series. Feels kind of like a Terry Gilliam movie or Monty python? Kit, and that there's something about it that feels very distinctively anglophile. And there was so much about the version that felt Americanized in dill Toro's realm, you know, particularly with the agent they brought in the first movie here because so much of it is going to happen in London. Yeah, we're here in Colorado for for a second, and we went to Mexico, but by and large I feel like you'll play into this. You make hell boy, the actor British and you play into the whole British notion of things because it has that kind of British sense of humor. And I don't mind it being an American bumping up against the British sensibilities that you get that fish out of water stuff. Not that they mind any of that kind of humor for this movie. But yeah, you want to introduce someone that's new to this world. So they could comment I guess on what the British are doing. I felt like they put this one in England just differentiate it from the others. I think because it's king. Arthur they got to put it in that setting. They're gonna find his too. It'd be weird. If it was a New York. Well, no, no, no thinking, they have King Arthur because they put it in England not they put it in England because they have king. Arthur. Well, this is all based off the comic. So I think that's why it's here because if you're going to have Arthur, it's gotta beating land. Yeah. And again, I think that if hell boy is a descendant of king. Arthur there should be tied to him being British in some way, Tom hardy could've played this. If he hadn't already done venom. There's there's people that I feel like would really be right for this. That would bring a British flavor and flair to it. No offense to David Harper. Again. I like his performance. Okay. I don't think there's a lot of play off of. I don't think the characterization is written as strongly he's fine. I just see opportunities missed in trying to reboot him. If that is indeed what they wanted to do they fail at that. All say this one I so wanna Tom hardy play movie now. But to I do feel like a lot of harbor is doing is. He watched what Perlman did try to deliver lines pretty similar? That you know, that sense of sarcasm, and yeah, I feel like he's just trying to do Perlman here. I agree. I don't feel. He is differentiated himself from Perlman's characterization enough to where I see a huge distinction. There's more back hair that was gross this saying, but here's one thing I'm gonna throw out, and I know I'm not going to get a lot of support for it. But I feel like this is one thing. I really wanted that does not happen. Del Toro nailed the whole Rasputin, not see satanic vibe, don't make that the origin story. This time to not go to World War Two. It doesn't make any sense that broom is still all these people are still there and they're not aging, and it's been eighty years and yet they look the same as they did in forty three stop all of that. And just rebooted him. I don't know there were lots of if it's harbor and you're gonna make a middle-aged. Well, then there was a satanic cult like Manson in the sixties or seventies. But you could even do that today. You could have it. The Neo Nazi movement of today and make hell boy only a couple of months old and again have it being played by a really young actor. He was really young and healthy to if you remember it open with that Howdy Doody bit. You can have a movie like that. And I would really connect with his relationship with dad and since all of this is about the way dad treated him when he was opposed to kill him. When he first comes out here. I think it's again, I just think having a middle aged actor is a mistake. I mean talking about his origins. It's like you get rasping again. He's never gonna show in the rest of the Phil don't do it. Again. See I was really confused because they start talking about at the end of the war. And I'm like, okay. Well, it's now twenty nineteen which war thing talking about. I mean, obviously, they do that in the comic. Right. And they're not varying from the origin story as it was laid out in the comic. Yeah. It was World War Two in this satanic ritual that the Nazis were doing hell to earth and love that. But I loved it in gear. Most. Vision. And if you're doing something else, I mean, we get subtle differences like that Cronin guy the guy with the gas mask, and he's not a robot going with the comic book version and not the del Toro steam punk version. But at the end of the day, I'm comparing what I'm looking at to what I already saw and thinking. Yeah, this doesn't look as good. It doesn't make much sense. And I tried to let this be as much of its own thing. Look, they're winning me over by doing that wrestling stuff that I loved them the comic and with this, retold origin. They're gonna introduce a new character, my favorite side character. Besides oh boy, lobster Johnson. Who was just like pulp adventurers that has a lobster claw that heats up, and he could brand people or Burgum or melt like so there's a lot of fan service for fans of the comic in this. Even though it doesn't have that dilatory flair. There are trying to pull new things in and I like that as an idea, but it feels like an idea that is like many of the new ideas here underutilized like all, right? If you're keeping it in World War Two. To have loved Johnson be the only one and he's going to be the one to meet held boy. And then broom will come later, and we can tell the broom story later, but it just they blow him in here. Just so we can shoot respite and put his claw print on his forehead. And then he's gone until the stinger at the end just what was this about? I got nothing out of other than damned how Thomas Aiden church. I again was not expecting him. And my thought is sand, man. You can't see his face. But I knew him just from that voice. Oh, absolutely. He has a very distinctive voice. I mean, I know him primarily from wings, but he was great and sideways, and so many other things, but that said all this griping again, all I'm really trying to do. I'm not saying I'm having a bad time. What I'm doing is. I'm saying I'm seeing the same movie as before, and I wondered why they made that choice other than again, maybe they're not trying to totally erase the other movies from your mind if out of continuity, at least acknowledged that you. Must love them. If you're sitting in this movie theater that the love of the previous movies has brought you here, and we won't want to do anything that upsets that feeling for those old movies. And my thinking was this isn't a reboot they're sticking with the comic story. They're showing us the comics story very quickly as we've already mentioned is not like the first two films became iconic blockbusters their cult films as this is a way to keep the comic origin and do it in shorthand. So that I get Spiderman homecoming we did not want to see Peter Parker get bit by that spider third damn time. Just needs a reference it and move on. Yeah. But the short dance too short. I mean, we get this cool lady Elizabeth Hatton psychic coming in here. And the next thing we know she's going to be dead. I mean, again, there's so much here that they don't use lug lobster Johnson blows in. What was the point of all of this once they finally get to the betrayal? I really go with this movie. It takes about half hour to launch and. To act too. But we find out that hell boy has been brought to England under false pretenses. There's this Cyrus club, which is kind of like an old boys club. All white men. I thought it was a strip club in New Jersey that yeah, that's not the one. He's going to. Yeah. What's funny? Addressing your concerns about bringing in the whole World War, Two origins, Asya colomb. They're super old, but they don't age. And it's I don't know. Some magic mumbo jumbo reason is given and then they got a tack that onto broom and this. Well, they're like, oh, yeah. Plays him as well. That's why he hasn't gotten older since World War Two. Yeah. That was confusing Stewart. That's exactly what I said. Earlier the first half hour of this film feels like they're throwing in too much, and I'm trying to figure out what this movie is other than hell boys greatest hits in live action format. But yes, once this betrayal happens, I think we have our plot. I think we're going to see something really occur with this betrayal. Here's the betrayal itself is not all that important either because he's going to be betrayed by this Cyrus club. They're going to try to taste. Him. He's gonna pass out when he wakes up the giants. They were supposedly hunting have come around and kill the whole of Cyrus club. And then we just get to see hell boy do a little bit more action with the giants. I think that's the last moment where I really felt things weren't coherent. After that. When we start getting the ferry coming in as where I think things really start to become a movie and not a best of. But the aspires club is important the medically for one reason. And that is that they're pretty much mad at Broome for allowing this to linger when they explained the origin story. It's lady Hatton in the crystal ball that tells us the World War Two seen they frame it with the idea that they cannot age until help is dead. So is that the reason why broom left him alive? Why hasn't this guy done what any human would do and kill the monster? What about this little red demon? In made him adopt him as a son, and that is going to be a question that is asked throughout this movie. And frankly, never given a satisfying answer it becomes why? Hell boy, no longer trusts broom and really latches onto Alice and this kind of put on again, the director Neil Marshall. I just get that vibe. I got into the descent I got it in dog soldiers where oh there's some attempt to give these people characterization the descent bit better job done there. But I feel like that's not his concern. He wants to get to the gore. He wants to see things us, and you gotta put some characterization in there because that's what makes a story. But I don't feel like that's his primary concern. I'm not even all that satisfied with how they introduce Alice, and what her purpose is in this movie, either to be different than Liz. But I will say this. If the point of this movie is to be R, rated and Bulger and gory. This was when I knew the movie was our I was like there's no way that help way is chopping. Off these giants heads and driving their faces into trees and paling them. There's just no way that this could be a PG thirteen movie. And it's great fun. I mean, I wanted to say I had a lot of fun watching the movie at this point. It does feel like some Dan's ag- music video they never made again, British it feels very much like Sabbath or something like that. I wish they would have got Sabbath and all this hair metal that keeps playing I I just don't like hair metal. But I agree. I love as clunky. Is that opening wasn't as bad as some of the effects were. There's also some good stuff in your like when do turns into a vampire bat when they're wrestling that looks good. I love when they're going through the Cyrus club. And you just have these giant heads mounted to the wall just the descent design. There are things that do look good in this film. There are things that also look really bad. And I'm going to say that if it looks like a B movie with unconvincing effects that plays into a midnight movie steady. I mean, I don't mind I agree. My comparison is Sam. Raimi's army of darkness. Nobody would call those affects good, but they fit the tone of reverence that he has going throughout this movie. This is chasing a similar dragon here. And I think flaying it. I do think and this moment, I don't see where all the hate is coming from this is fun. Hell boy violence. I agree. I knew it was are rated because there were number of f-bomb dropped along the road to get here. So as soon as I heard fuck used liberally, I knew we were in an r rated film, the gore never got me because this is not good guys. This is just not good looking effects in this film. No, it's not avengers endgame style. But for a B movie, it's barely Black Panther again army of darkness, but for b movie that works for me in this feels like a B movie. Yeah. Like, if you're belief is that everything must look photo realistic. I think you miss out on the tongue in cheek vibe like some things look bad. I don't know that. It's intentional. But I think when it's obvious in this giant seen that's blue screen stuff. But I think that that can be kind of fun that kind of works in a sarcastic movie, you can be taken out of the moment and not believe in the realism win. You know, you're having fun, and it's kind of cheeky and this movie much like pool is very cheeky and violent and in your face. I just think that when it comes to action it lacks the adrenaline when it looks like God of war video game. But you like army of darkness. Yes. And that movie looks like shit. I mean, I it does. I have a thing for Harry. How's it? He puts a nostalgic vibe in my heart. I don't know that anyone's nostalgic for bed CGI. This comes off is a nineties attempt at a big budget superhero fill like that is the vibe I got like this would have been perfect in the nineties. Yeah. I mean, I think any generation can appreciate the limitations of previous special effects generations. Yes. Technically speaking this movie looks like ass, but it works because this movie's tone is in your face and showing it's ass. So it works, but in addition to the effects, I'll say that I thought just overall the look of the film was very uninspired. Just camera angles everything it was really flat looking, and I don't know if this was a limitation of the budget and the effects that they couldn't do great stuff with the camera or the way gear mo- does, you know, I love the descent the movie, but it had great use of light and dark, but it didn't have a lot of amazing camera work. So I. Feel like that. Maybe a Mark of the director the camera works in joke killing. So like case in point. We get a p v shot where help boy has been tricked. He's on the bridge thinking they're about to ambush giants and they stab him in the back. He jumps into the water. We see him drowning. It's going to be the end, and then something swoops in and what's the punchline the severed head of the leader still wearing that stupid and a low Pat sinking down into water very Monty python. Yeah. Again, that to me says we're making yes English jokes. And that's cool. Again, it will not look real. It will not convince you of it's reality. But it does set me in the mood to have a good time. Meet this movie at the level that it's playing I'm having fun with it in that same kind of way when hell boy is slaying. The giants got me the same kind of fun moment as Thor ragnarok softening when he was fighting the lava demons Archer, and they were playing leads. Flynn. You know, again, I felt like even when they weren't playing hair metal this movie had a hair metal vibe, the score is very electric guitar and just rocking so many solos. Yeah. I mean, we're children of the eighties. So we were conditioned to pair satanic thoughts with heavy metal. I mean that was the big fear of our age was that if you listen to that music, you would get into the devil. So the fact that we actually are rooted for a demon here, and he's jumping around what sounds like classical music, but played by Eddie van Halen. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's fulfilling a childhood fantasy is I guess the way I would put it and it's right for us. I don't know if it will make sense for other generations, but for eighties kids. They're going to get this joke. I wish it was a little bit more heavy metal album cover, look, though. I mean, the only demonic views we get our of hell boy himself with his shave down horns now another compliment. I'm going to give this movie is that. I feel like at the very least they tread water and arguably improve on the side kicks. I do like Alice as much as I like, some Blair's character. And I really do like Daniel day Kim, he kinda steals the movie when he shows up here, and he was not originally casted. This was a bit of controversy. They cast it a white guy to play this Japanese character from the comic book may got a Korean actor. I guess I'll Asians are the same apparently. But. Yeah. You know, it's better than who. They were going to do. I think at skiing. You know, who he is? Remember that transporter film that wasn't Jason state them. He was also Francis in deadpool. Yeah. Worth thinking deadpool. Yeah. Again, what can we get that makes it more like deadpool seems to be the mission statement? But again Alice blows in here for not particularly good reasons, she psychic and just knew he needed help. I guess and who cares because she's fun. And I really feel like there is a charm to this. And they've taken out the relationship thing. I don't think that they imply I didn't get the vibe you guys can debate me if I'm wrong that again, it's a parent relationship. This movie is preoccupied with fathers and sons, or in this case hell, boy was a father figure to Alice. He was friends with her parents now they're earns on her bookcase they've been cremated. And he's got a meet her as not little Alice, but as an adult psychic. Yeah, feels more brother and sister to me. Than lovers. Yeah. I know point got a romance from him at I thought there would be when I see Allison like we have a new Liz, we do in that she is kicking ass on the by the time things are said and done. Let's keep your mind. He and Liz worked together for quite a while before he developed a crush on her too. So I could see where this film to go on. Maybe that relationship would be there. I did get kind of Zaza beats domino feel off of her though from deadpool two I really did like and the way she was talking to the spirits and able to use it again, the reason I got domino is when she's like, let's get under the table. Why are we under the table to avoid the broken class? That felt very domino in her luck power to me. Sure. And if there is a future romance. I do think it will be with her. And the guy that's coming in with the swat team been Demeo is I think at the end of it. She even says, I really like cats, you know, he's got his secret side, and they'll spend the whole. Movie teasing the idea that he was in the movie predator. Yes. Down to. Was the only one that survived. He says he's the only one survived and yet we see a Jaguar monster pulled him into the thicket. And of course, it's because it turned him, and he'll be spending much of this movie suppressing that Jaguar side. I think that she likes that side of him. And I think that they could play that in the future. But for help way, they really don't give him anything other than his dad like that seems to be the only relationship and now he is against his dad because the club told him that his dad was there to kill him in World War Two, and that was something that had never been shared with him. And he is pretty much the only person to trust is Alice and Alice has a relationship with the photo of this film. We are going to find out in parallel at the same time that we're watching all this giant stuff. There is an evil character going around who wanted to be Alice back in one thousand nine hundred at Jacob. I have to ask. If this meant anything to you because they tease this villain. We just see some old witch who's lost her. I it's probably yoga this is. Apparently, you're not Russia, and this is a big Russian folk tell which character. No. But I've seen ant, man. And that was of running joking FM. And for some reason, Bobby yoga also come up in drag me to hell or something. Like that. I feel like there was a Ramey connection with Bobby yoga, but we see baba Iago being asked for the ability to kill hell boy. But I didn't expect it to be rock steady. From the mutant ninja turtles here. I mean, this does have its origin in the comics it plays. I'll admit this. There is so much in this film. It is over stuffed with mythology and just pulling bits from the comics. And all that it does come off a little bit weird because he's called fear, but he's like warthog, man. And I don't associate those with fairies. But this is all from the comic, this origin of Alice. She doesn't have psychic powers on the comic. But they added that for reasons to move the plot along, but yeah, her story is from the comics. And yeah, there is a warthog, man. He got mad at hell boy in wants revenge, and I really liked this. It's worth pointing out in nineteen ninety two. He was the size of a piglet like he was baby size snuck. Into the crib. And then because they had a horseshoe. It could put the iron on him. His bakery was exposed. And since that time, I don't think he's grown at all. I think that when we see the baba yoga seen he's asking her as a little piglet sized monster cake, and you help me get hell boy. And then she puts him in the path to digging up the parts of new may and amazed the one that actually makes him bigger. That's who forges the deal. I took it as he grew up. Yeah. I took it as he grew up and it later in the movie, we're gonna see he hoax out, and that's because of the blood Queen. But yeah, I mean, we definitely see him when he gets the Saint Sebastian's which may be the first bit of LeMay that he finds he finds the head when we get to this monastery where of course, the joke is they all taken the valve silence. And they have to use chalkboards. I thought it was pretty good joke. I was chuckling through this. It was okay. I mean, again, it it made me think of British television humour. I wondered is using a truck board breaking valve silence. It seems like it would be not moving your mouth. I think that's the valid silence is about I don't know why grew Gotch is needing to go through this motion. If he can eat anyone's tongue and speak in their voice. But again, it's best not to ask a lot of logic based questions this movie as Jacob you're really helping me understand this. It is a string of moments from the comic book that don't have a lot of unity as far as plot goes cherry, picking their favorite bits. They're taking a very long storyline. The wild hunt is eight issues, which a typical arc is four or five issues. So they're taking a lot of story. And then that yeah. Then they're taking a lot of other bits from other stories and putting it into an already very long story. Right. I find myself annoyed whenever I have to ask why? And how. You know, what we understand that? He keeps bringing her body parts the blood Queen is like watching reality TV. I love the I liked it or severed hand is the one holding the remote and just flipping through. But yeah, I mean, supposedly she couldn't get her body parts without him. And yet later she's just going to peer in the moonlight and just natch away. The last body they're very willy nilly about things in rules. And why things are happening? It's gag based is what I want to emphasize here. If you're coming to this wanting a fantasy this movie will frustrate you. If you're coming to this winning comedy. I don't know I was laughing at a pretty regular interval. I can't say that I was laughing all that hard. But I was intrigued I wanted to see how the blood Queen came back together of all things. This was kind of reminded me of board. Ella will blood where we had Queen Lillibridge whose heart was severed and four pieces and you had to bring the pieces back together, and they would fuse together. Her and become whole again. And I just wanna point out died as a film you enjoy. Yes. Okay. Most people I think when they hear something like that that you're digging the movie, but you're happy they're doing something. It's good as board Delo blow. No, not at all. It's merely because I know Delo blood, so well, and Lilith a vampire here a blood Queen that I'm seeing a reused story idea. Yeah. And again, Portillo blood didn't invent that either. Sure, we could come up with a long history of movies where people are reassembled starting with Frankenstein. Let's not do. No agree. But you know, what I'm saying? It's a semblance the villain by Aminian through finding pieces that had been spread across the world. That was my frame of reference a Cyrus club has the less body part. Which is why they get slaughtered by grew much. And this also helpfully allows lady Hatton to die before we even got into. No that psychic we find her. It's kind of a gory scene. Like when when they come here is actually having what she describes as a psychic migraine. She can hear the screams before we've entered the mansion we know that everyone in Cyrus club is dead. And that includes this medium, their token woman, laying there with a crystal ball just kind of revolving around her and this effect that the us with Alice like when she has the dead talk through her. She vomits intestines out turns into a ghost. It's really weird looking. I think that's what it looks like. Well, this what I was gonna say was I don't remember ever showing up. Elway comic. This Alice has different powers than the comic book version. But I know having read stuff an actual seances like people have depicted through art in the eighteen hundreds or whatever like this smoker things coming out of the the mediums mouth. So I thought that was cool to kind of see that on the street. It is gruesome looking though. Yeah. I wanted to bring that up like this is actually how they wrote about it prior to go spa. Stors? This is what ectoplasms was if you were talking about the Colt that it is a literal kind of GAC, it's not green. It doesn't come from slime or it in something like a body fluid like a flim, basically snot it comes out of you and it conform into some kind of ghosts. Not here. It looks pretty cool. And I barely got a chance to know this psychic. But it allows us to understand Alice's power. She could commune with the dead. She can bring him back in this way. And it's dramatic, and this is supposed to be a big revelation to hell boy that room is father figure was supposed to kill them in this start. I guess we could say midlife crisis with elevated because David harbour is around that age, but this is supposed to be a bit of conflict a new revelation about his upbringing that his dad was supposed to kill right. And where do they go with that? Again, to me, it would mean writing a lot more scenes between him and Ian McShane, but he and McShane is just kind of camped out in the basement of. Fish and chip shop. He's working at Winston Churchill's old bunker and trying to figure out Komen books to find out about the blood Queen. This was not on their radar. And I feel like they should have an adventure together. He should be a part of this team with Alice and Demeo for the rest of this movie. I keep hoping fingers crossed. They're not going to kill them. I really don't want them to do that again. Yeah. I agree. I was thinking how tried it is just to kill the father figure time and time and time again, and by casting, Ian McShane who is an actor that I feel is really exploded in terms of his current amount of work. I see this guy all over the place. I never really paid attention to them before the first John wick, and I thought by casting him they might have cast him when they wanted to stick around for awhile again, he's playing broom younger, so I thought that might mean Brougham was going to stay. But no we're going to replay that same. Same story. And I could see them joining the team he has a McShane the actor has a harder edge again, the John hurt and this version of broom just has a harder edge DM. It feels like the cherry earns version of Alfred pennyworth and those ax Neider Batman films. Like, yeah. I see him picking up a machine gun and shooting at ghost or whatever. Always a big fan. I can't wait the deadwood movie is finally happening. He's in it. It's out next month, always loved Edward one of my favorite shows. He's ninety percent of the reason why love to see him in the right role. But again like so much about this movie's good ideas, given very short screen time. We give this weird moment instead held boy goes storming off. And for reasons. I someone helped me here. The elevator becomes a portal to a dimension. Where a house is walking around on chicken legs. Again. That's just the Bobby you blame the Russians for that. The Russians had a myth about an elevator knows about a house walking on chicken legs which lives in. Okay. I didn't understand this elevator. It seemed like they had five scenes to get to this. And then the editor said this movie's running too long, and they just smashed cutted them together. And there's no reason why the elevator would take them into this moment. Other than we as an audience are ready for him to reunite with Bobby yoga, their old enemies. She apparently tried to raise Stalin's ghost and he plucked out her eye. And now she wants one of his yellow is. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Bobby AGA summoned him for reasons because she wants a second I back. But I thought this is where you were going to go Stewart when you said you realize this was already because fighting giants PG thirteen you can see that Lord of the rings. Sure. They don't have trees getting rammed through their faces. But this is like troubling child eating stuff and just that crab walks. You've got these beg legs and those nasty old witch titties or almost falling like, this is some grooms. I feel like, oh, we just put a hell raiser movie to L boy film and combine them I did wonder both with the blood Queen. And here if they were going to just go nasty nipple. But fortunately, they never do. Again. My reference on this army of darkness when we get asked going into the pit, and it's a kung FU which it kind of feels like that when when they have this fight here. It is great fun to watch it works on its own terms aren't a you've always talked about superhero movies there every John right now. I feel like maybe a lot of the pushback against this one because it really is like in that horror genre. And I think people maybe you don't wanna go see all those marvel films, but if you like horror movies, I think you'd be fine with this one they go for stuff here. Yeah. I think maybe if I can speculate as to why it's gotten such harsh pushback. It may be because the longtime fans don't forgive them for switching teams and getting a new director and actor and the new people would never get on board with this. This would never be something. They'd want to see because this is the very definition of Colt against them Raimi's films. Didn't make a lot of money either. There's a very limited audience if. You're talking about a rock and roll which comedy with with our rated violence talking about that seems like it would appeal to every audience. I don't bring the kids. But it seems like the only point of this scene is to really, hey, this is where the blood queens that. So you could get there and move on with the plot. And of course, he does it through deception he says, I'll give you my I he'd never gives her a date. So technically, he could wait all the until he's dead or banished or whatever. So to her. It's like not getting the eye and chill curse him. And of course, be a part of the instinct, and it's really weird. Like, they know he comes back and the blood Queen is regard till midnight. Did he come back like at eleven thirty pm because it seems like they could have got there very quickly and been ready for her. Instead, they're gonna go through some forest zombie start popping up because they can't land the copter close enough to this tree where the blood queens blood is still sitting in. And that's like the last thing she needs Arnie, you said that was disjointed for you to watch the beginning of this movie. I never not feel that I feel like this move. Is disjointed at its heart at its heart and soul the way it's been put together maybe by design. Maybe they love the fact that it makes no sense. And that can be kind of fun sometimes nonsense can work if it's entertaining nonsense, and I love watching a house and chicken legs nonsense. It bugs me that. I don't know why it's there, but maybe not that much. But it does bug me cumulatively speaking that we're now building pretty much to the climax. And I really don't know why anything is happening or what the whole point of it all is going to be. We're back to where King Arthur had tricked the blood Queen into Hughes Excalibur stab here here. Hell boy is going to use his six shooter blow out her. I saw so whole I finish in this movie. What was this thing not ever released in three d like because that is seems like it's supposed to be like wading at you. If you have three D glasses on or it could just be the awful effects that this film has throughout it again that requires money and time and. It was the one time I wondered if this actually got a three D release because that I just like lingers like almost looking at you most of the time, it's really weirdly shot. But the blood Quinn gets our blood back keep in mind when she got torn up by Excalibur her blood leaked into the tree. And that tree was never torn down. Even though it's pretty much suburban all around Pendle hill that tree has been preserved. And now all the monsters are coming out. She is whole and she is going to an Tom Cruise's mummy and wander through London releasing plague and throwing a thorn from crown and making Alice sick, again, just so disjointed and weird all these monsters come out of nowhere. Okay. The queen's they're they're coming. And then like hell they shows up, and they have a whole scene and the monsters just go away. And I guess they gotta be tucked away until the climax when they get come out again. Like, there's got to be a lot of scenes either that were never just shop, but we're planned or that are on the cutting room floor, and they had to get this to two hours. I really feel like hell boys were Jin should have been. Connected to the opening scene. Like, I really feel like maybe it could be this mother or something. But or groom's the Senate was here. I don't know. But I just I want the Senate is their king Arthur's there. No. I mean, brooms not hell boys. But I just really want things to start tying together. And in fact, this movie will never work very hard in justifying white leaps from one moment to the next it does so in spite of logic. And it goes back to what I said, if you listen to our review about how so many first superhero, movies origin, stories do tie, the superhero origin to the villain origin because that way they can shorthand one of the origins here. You've got one that's starting in Merlin. The other starting in World War Two would never the twain shall meet. And thus it does feel like neither is really given a lot of depth. Although I argue that it doesn't begin in World War. Two begins in fifteen seventy four once Alice get stuck with this storm. That betrayer witch helpfully still hanging out by the tree and says, you guys really need to go to the bowels of hell and see Merlin. Well, there's three which is all of a sudden, it's very confusing. I wasn't even sure if that was the betrayer witch. Yeah, she's here simply so she can point them to Merlin who has been kept alive as punishment under a rock and Merlin is the one that knows the full story, which is that king Arthur's. I don't know. Great great. Great granddaughter, Sarah Hughes, Mary to demon in fifteen seventy four was taken to hell and gave birth the help way there. So like, that's where it happened. King. Arthur's granddaughter was dragged to hell, and we only know this because it's a flashback shown when Berlin is doing a data dump and help boy is just been. I don't know sitting in a cauldron for hundreds of years waiting for rescue to summon him. Well, he was cool just being a devil down there. And then he's brought to earth. I just feel like they do better than this. I'm not asking for the moon. But I do feel like they could have told an origin story that had more connection between the various elements. Here's where some of the problem is one they probably just don't have the writers that could pull this together. But it does feel like, hey, let's adapt this storyline which again comes very late in the hell boy, mythology usually. Yeah. If you're doing a first film, you're gonna take something from issue one because that's the origin. And here they're taking some very late in the chronology, and they're trying to make it an origin story and trying to do something different than Toro did. And I just don't feel like they have the talent to pull all that off. That said I really do like this. I've I've always liked us about how the temptation of his destiny that the reason why Brougham was going to kill them in World War Two is because this creature is prophesied to bring about the end of the world. He is after all on on Rama and not hell. Boy, hell boys, the slang name for a beastie. That is going to take Excalibur fly around on a dragon and chop people down in a really awesome sequence that insofar too easy. That is heavy metal cover. It really. Is it should be Judas priest or are something it reminded me what the stakes really are. If I haven't always felt in. Of course, help even says, I want some stakes that makes sense. Here are the stakes is that if this guy actually draws Excalibur fulfilling that destiny will actually bring about the end of man, not the end of these monsters, and we wondered that that was the teas of hell boy to was in saving healthwise life. Did in fact, some Blair Duma all here, we're going to kind of get some answers to that. I feel that every hell boy first movie is going to have the fiery crown and the fully grown horns, some apocalyptic vision. Ian of hell boy, destroying the earth. It's like the hook. Yeah. It's like hoax match. You gotta show that the hulk is dangerous, and that it's not all about being a superhero. And that's the stakes withheld. Boy is that he could destroy the world at any moment if he gives into that temptation, yeah. And I feel like even better than del Toro by having this moment here. I really got how cool and scary. That is and it does he rejects it Merlin uses the last of his power to bring the stone up. There's the sword. Spinning in it. Go ahead and grab it and help ROY won't do it. Even though it does have the power. Maybe the only thing that can kill the blood Queen. He doesn't think if he touches it. That's who he'll kill there appears to be somewhere time limit on grabbing sword that I don't get is. Like, you waited too long is this video game that not hit exit time. Do you see the graphics on this film? Yes. It's video game. Merlin only has so much magic. And by doing this at least is allowed to die. Now, we see him fall down a moth escapes his mouth, and this kind of a cool tracking shot. It gets eaten by a crow. Did love that. That was a good joke. Yeah. And brings us to our climax. We see this is where blood Queen is walking down destroying sidewalk cafes. If feels like a hard cut all of a sudden, she's walking down like flies or covering people. Go I guess, we're at the end of the film already like they're no gradual release of these plagues. It's just boom we're in the middle of it. I actually thought we might have been at the climax when Excalibur came the first time because it does feel like the showdown between the blood Queen and hell boy and ninety minutes past. I know 'cause I'm checking my watch. So it's like is this the end I had no idea how long the movie was going in. No, it's a full two hour movie. This is the first one where the hero, quote, unquote, loses. And then we're going to have yet another chase before we. Get to the actual climax. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. Because I did know the time on this. And I was watching the clock. And when they get to the church there is literally thirty minutes left on this film. There's only two villains to fight. I we gotta get the little piggy. You know, he's there hoped out. It's not actually help boy defeats him the blood queens gonna get rid of him. Yeah. And of course, debate is going to finally allow him. So he gets pinned by some falling concrete. This is the gives them the impetus to finally be his monster self. This wasn't a surprise, right? We've seen him. Injecting something and retaken that flashback. I thought they took footage from the predator. Like that had to be a joke. Right because it's shot just like the predator, but rec- that Jaguar get him. Like, okay, he's going to turn into that. At some point. I didn't take it necessarily as an intentional joke so much as a lack of creativity with the jungle predator seen. It is shot. Exactly that we like it is really shot. Similar to that first breaded or they're not trying to get away with anything. They know you sell predator. And they're having a laugh this is again, it's cheeky this feels like a comedy to me. And that's it's a joke. And I didn't catch that he would be aware cheetah. I saw him injecting himself with something. And I didn't quite know what? And by the time, he was ready to be stout. I know nothing about this character. I remembered later I'd seen a trailer where he got punched in the face and turn into a cheetah. But I hadn't remembered it at the time, I'm thinking, Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde thing going on kind of lake league of extraordinary, gentlemen. So when he turns into the cheetah all right where we'll cheat. A thing. I'll go with it not only that. But he was just he was so hard to like as a human. He get such hard attitudes about monsters. He seems fascist about squashing them. And it's brought up Alice's the one that points out. You know, like they were really awful to which is back then and he's like, well, this is what it takes to to fight evil. The fact that he himself is a monster. That he is like hell boy in the fact that he lives in two worlds. That's a nice ark for him. And I do think Daniel day is really good in this role. I actually think I don't know. I could watch spinoff movie with him. Oh, yeah. No. I don't like him at the beginning. And I like them by the end. So that to me tells that actor worked for me, he repulsed me when he is supposed to both me and got me on his side when he's supposed to do that. Daniel day, Kim is an actor. I really liked in all the seasons of lost. So I recognized him right away here. And I did think he was going to be an antagonistic. I thought he was going to try to kill Hella. Boy at the first moment, I didn't realize he was keeping that bullet. As a just in case. Hell boy starts to go evil. I thought he kept it just as a I know how boys going to go evil and the first chance I get I'm shooting him in the heart. I mean, he makes that joke. I'm gonna shoot him in the heart because his brains to small so I really didn't see him being a good guy and part of the team. So it was a nice turn for me. And yeah, I always found it. Funny because despite being Korean I knew Daniel day, Kim, couldn't actually speak Korean on lost. It was a real trouble for him. So it was interesting to see him play with a British accent. And he is in a long line of this movie of characters that have been contemplating killing hell boy. I mean, it started with broom the very first person to meet the demon was there with a shotgun supposed to take him out? Why didn't he do it? Well that comes back. We see that the blood Queen is actually taken dead hostage, and once very conveniently we find out that the tomb of King Arthur is underneath this could be drill and help boy is thrown into it based yet again with grabbing Excalibur she basically pushes him over the edge and angers him by with a flicker finger opening up his gerrad, artery and killing and mcshane's character. And I'm like, no, not another death for this character in the first why do you have to be so repetitive? I was still hoping he could be saved. I was like they may actually think that the. Because we've seen this character die. This may be a Mr. act. It was very sad for lots of reasons, including the fact that I like, Ian McShane, and I'm tired of cliche that we are going to see the exact same story line play out and dad has to die which will not necessitate this character becoming hill. Man. He never seems to mature. But he does get angry enough to grab Excalibur and us become on on on Brahma received the crowd. She the horns, and I got to say they had have used different makeup because most the hell boys really tough to look at this film. Like, it did not look like that production still that they released look like that makeup was barely staying on him. This cheekbones are just very high extreme. But it looks like they changed the shape of his face when he becomes king hill boy has the fire crown and the huge horns, he got a better look at that point. Yeah. Again, I could've used more of this. I mean, I know we don't wanna have a giant climax where hell boys slaughtering human beings. But again, these are some of. The most exciting moments of the film. He raises demons, right? It just his presence. Just taking on that form. We see the earth open up, and like all these demons giant demons like you get a lot of gore here. I love it. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense like in nothing is really done with these monsters. But I'm having a lot of fun in this little sequence at fifty foot clown. That's like its legs are stilts beer, you that was fun spear. Yeah. I felt like some of these creature designs seemed like del Toro cast-offs, you know, a little bit pans labyrinth, by way of the discount special effects shop. I here's the thing. I don't know where Toro ins and the original comic book, art begins. I cannot say what was conceived before del Toro. All I know is that my whole association with this world is his touch and since I know all of his films. I know what that looks like here again, I just wanted more just wanted more of this. We could have gotten to earlier we could have seen. Help be evil for a little bit. While longer you say, it's a long comic book, art. But I feel like there wasn't a lot. That's happened for him to do. So we could have gotten here earlier. But I think for lots of reasons they just decide to have him not pursued this destiny when he hears the sound of his dead coming from the afterlife, thanks to Alice. She does another act. Oh plaza spit up, and we get one more, Ian McShane monologue. Oh, it is bad. This gets a little sappy. Right. I mean, first of all I never needed to see topless CGI and McShane second of all there's too much time for them to say goodbye. You know, it's like if you're going to kill the character, tragically allow it to be tragic don't give them goodbye moment. That's the thing for me. It goes on to on. And it looks way bad like I turned to my wife. I'm like, I wasn't even paying attention at this point. 'cause I so distracted by how bad look, I'm like this isn't good, right? Like this. Looks awful. And it was distracting to me where it was just like hill. Boy, I'm proud of you. I guess that's what he was saying it just looks off looks like machines was like floating, and they couldn't quite get it to stay on that body. It looks as good as Ghostbusters to is what I would say if you like that aesthetic. I wish they were using a puppet like Ghostbusters to here's the frustration. I've needed broom to explain to me why he didn't pull the trigger on hell boy in nine hundred forty three. And all I get is. I love you like, I don't get any better excuse for all of this Jabber Javer here at the end. I never understood why this human said, I'm not going to do what I'm supposed to do and kill a monster. And that was what the whole movie was building to. And it just drops that ball. Like it's dropped every other ball that it tried to juggle. Yeah. I was thinking we'd get something there. We get this. If I have wings, it's because of you. But yet it never explains why he made that choice. Did he have fatherly pangs? He feel his men don't have a biological clock. But did he feel one ticking? Anyway, yes, if the psychic that was there and the other Cyrus club that we're there and Demeo wanted to kill him and all these human beings, if it's the human impulse to want to kill monsters. What about broom made him resist that human touch? It's an important character trait, and this is where you miss still Toro because del Toro if nothing great affects all that. But he also brought a motion and relationships to all these crazy monsters and humans running around. And I feel like that is this moment is when I missed Torah the most agreed. I mean, we get the point the point is I love you. And so because someone said I love you hell boys going to swing the Excalibur and chop up the blood Queen again and throw her head back into the depths of hell and all is saved sort of. I mean, I do think like London is on fire. Like it's saved in the same way. Like Notre Dom save right? Yeah. It doesn't pay up. Of London, and you just destroyed and then it's going to be like what one year later, six months later, something like that. And I'm like, oh, they're gonna show they've restored everything in London note there just on another adventure. Like London is in shambles at the end of this, Phil. Yeah. And have to go to Siberia by contrast Iberia is looking good. We find out Alice has joined the BP, and that she and hell boy or actually going to be joined by Demeo and storm something called the Atlantis society. I didn't get it. Oh showed a mermaid. You shoulda got. It. Would they punch out one of the guys? And he's got like a mermaid tattoo. Oh, yeah. I just didn't know we were going to eight Sapien. But oh, I had a feeling I'm like Lantis gonna mermaid this has got to be eight CPN's introduction. I didn't catch it either. I just Atlanta's there were so much playing. How many secret societies of white men? Are there that it rolled off me? Yeah. Not to mention all the motley Crue going on it just again, I thought it was another excuse to rock out, and it is. But I. I also think that they're telling us that if you were missing one of the probably major essential characters that we really loved from the first two movies. He would be there in the sequel, and then we get a couple of other scenes that I suppose would be leading to a sequel if one happens the I I really don't get held boy is at his dad's grave drinking and Thomas Haden church shows up as a ghost. Yeah. It's weird. Because of the way they introduced lobster Johnson. Like in the comic the first time. You see lobster Johnson is as it goes the shows up and helps held with. That's the thing that in the comic a lot of time just like random go show up to help out. And then you get this whole back story about who lobster Johnson. Is here you see him at the beginning. He shows up as it goes. Again, if your family, I am this is great. But I don't know if it works for anyone else having never understood why should love lobster Johnson. I was left a cold by the scene. It would only make sense to me if this were the only. Only character that help ROY had interacted with in World War Two like I'm at my dad's grave, and then another character that's long since dead is coming back, and I'm meeting them. Okay. But here it just kind of find out how boys a fan like he's just he kinda geeks out at seeing this legendary Nazi killer is told that he might have won a battle. But they're still a war to be waged. Then the second scene. Bobby Iago really wants her eye and some voices saying he'll get it. I thought they might be going with Merlin because she promises that she'll finally let the stranger have what he really wants which is the die. And that was something Merlin expressed. He wanted to do. But then I remembered, oh, he died like how could it be Merlin? And I was thinking, oh is it rasping? But no, there is another character in the comics again based on Russian folk lore. So make sense that he's hanging out with Bobby yoga. You could read all about him on Wikipedia kosh key, the immortal or the death-lists again this. Russian folklore character that hit his soul and an egg and put that egg in a and that sound like Russian nesting dolls that old pink comes from. But I guess it's introduction of that character if we ever a sequel that will never get for this film. I'll these bright we said Alaska is worth pointing out half of the hell boy to review was us saying, well, this is the end of this one. We're never getting in L boy, never say never should be the lesson as we walk away from this. But I think you're right. We'll never know who Bobby Iago is really dealing with well, how badly do we wanna know? Jacob Stuart do you recommend hell boy Jakup? I was worried when I went to go see this movie because again that thirteen percent on rotten tomatoes. That's not a good sign in the fact that I went on a Thursday night the opening night for movies now. And usually I buy tickets online. I went to go do that. And it's like select your seat. I'm like, oh only five people about seats. I'm not gonna worry about my tickets early. Uncle pick them up on the way home from work. So I. Have I go to the movie theater to buy the tickets head of time? Oh, those same five seats. That's all sold so far, and I get there. And there's like maybe ten people total. I tell my wife, I'm like because we all love hill boy because of what Dell toward it. I'm like, I just want to make sure you have the right experts for this film because it has gotten awful reviews. And as I sitting there watching it, I'm like, I don't know why this awful reviews. It's not a great coherent story. But it's fun. It's be movie fun. It reminded me a lot of again, I reference nineties comic book adaptations, I gotta judge Dredd vibe off of it, which that's not a great thing. Because that's Silvester. Stallone movie is awful like they went real ambitious without one. It's like, hey regard this comic book material. We don't really know what to do with it. Let's just throw twenty storylines in and rob Schneider for some reason. It flopped, and yeah, this one is over stuffed just like that. But I think if especially for fans of now playing we got a big contingency of horror fans, I think this is going to work for you. You got a lot of pus a lot of gore and blood and drippings, and yet it's wrapped up in a comic book superhero movie, but the fun of it is what's different than with del Toro. Did it feels like a lot of critics couldn't get away from what del Toro, so they trash this movie. This is a different beast, and it's more about the Qatar solos and the monsters bleeding and putting in gushing and all that kind of stuff in. Yeah. It's fun. It's not a great film. But it's fun be midnight movies. So I'll recommend it at that level Stewart. Yeah, I agree. I've seen worse was by reaction walking out of that. I didn't have a great time with it. But I thought it delivered the base thrills. You would expect from a hell boy movie. They did the minimum requirement to get a green arrow. And I don't know why anyone would hate this other than just swearing allegiance to what had been done before by Garo Toro. I get that the dead pooling of hell boy is the diminishment of del Toro. But if you forget all of that. And say I wanna be movie with a demon kickin ass to heavy metal. I think that there is a lot of fun here. I think the supporting characters really more than David harbour who again is good, but not giving much to do and seems to be directed to do what Ron Perlman had already done better. I do think that what makes it most fun Daniel day, Kim Sasha lane and just some of the visuals and the bloody nece, and so, yeah, if you like Sam Raimi's army of darkness, you wanna crude parity of our theory and legend full of splatter and kung FU and bad jokes. This is it, and if you don't want that no it won't convince you otherwise it's not good enough to sell you something if that's not what you want. But if you know, you're the audience for this. Yeah. Don't listen to the haters. I think you'll like it. Okay. Yeah. That's kind of where I am. Did they have a hell of a good time? No, did I have a hell of a bad time. No. I don't know that hell boy is a great. Maybe heck boy, you know, it's like. What the hack err on the side of green arrow here felt like as you said the words bare minimum came to mind. I had a fun time. I think I can acquaint at least part of that to the soundtrack of hair metal music that I love and grew up with. I do think this hell boy actor is fine as hell boy is he going to be as conic is Ron Perlman. Maybe if he gets a couple more movies, but in a first blush, I don't think he had the wonderful humor embodied the characters. Well, as Perlman did meet a Yovich. I didn't even recognize it was her. Ian, McShane we hardly new year you're gone, but I liked Dallas. I like daimyo, and I'm intrigued by what a sequel with ghost Thomas Aiden church might be like I think they did enough to differentiate themselves from the previous one they didn't bring back apes API, and they didn't bring back Johan. They didn't bring back Liz at felt different enough where. Basically, you had the BP had hell boy and you had his dad. They didn't redo the origin story. I just feel like the movie feels chopped up though, it is a little bit minced around. And it took a while for me to get into. And the look pulled me out of the movie if you times, but it was fine. I mean, I know a rotten tomatoes score the lower. It is doesn't mean people hate it. Just means less people like it, you know, kind of like us they rate green era, red arrow, and if you're ninety percent of your critics or mild red arrow that looks like a ten percent. So I went in thinking, though, I'd talked to people at Star Wars celebration who didn't like this film. I'd seen the rotten tomatoes score. I knew nothing else going in. And I'm like, you know, maybe it's the benefit of low expectations. But I had a good enough time. It was better than I expected it to be based upon the trailers and the stills we recommend. And what I say is when it does come back as a TV series with entirely new creative force. Please don't do any of this stuff. Again, like just come up with new origins. Trust yourself to have ideas of planting demon in a new way, and yeah, just captured the spirit, and that will be fun to watch. But I don't wanna see respite. And again, I don't wanna hear World War Two you'd think that they did enough to differentiate with Gail they'll Toro. I think the biggest problem I have with this movie is that it doesn't feel rebutted in a fresh new way. It feels like they split the difference. And I could've used a lot more originality. It would've made me much more passionate about this vision instead of feeling like not as good del Toro. I agree. I don't think we need to re see anything del Toro did in these movies. At least not yet. You know, it's kind of like the dark Knight because Batman begins had to establish this new Batman before you could start revisiting the joker who was the first villain of the last Batman, continuity. I think this hell boy. Still needs to establish his own identity. A little bit more before you could go back to any of the stories of the first two movies head or maybe it would only be the first movie because the second movie was so del Toro, and if Mike McConnell is involved, I could see him going back to some of the origin stuff. Like the first film had. I don't see him going to any of the fantasy of the second one. And I think we're all saying the same thing we didn't agree about the order of the first two movies. But this is the worst of the three hell boy movies. We would all rank this the weakest, although we're all giving it a green arrow. Yeah. I would say week. It's worse that makes us aound. Like, I disliked it more than I did. Right nine green arrows in the series, green arrow. I joined it I smiled throughout it. Yeah. But it is the weakest of the three. Yeah. Agree. I have no attachment to it. And it's not just because it's the newest I hadn't attachment to that first. Hell boy, the very first time. I saw it. Oh, I went out and started reading helpfully comics because of that first one this one, I don't think would convince me to do the same. No nothing about this. Makes it hit home. It feels. Like, so many reboots were discussing we're not going to remember it in a few years, but everybody's still going to remember del Toro. I remembered not liking hell boy too. Because all I really wanted to see that summer was dark Knight. And just get this out of the way. And I think similarly I would enjoy this movie if I had already seen of injuries in game, but come on. That's the movie we all want to be discussing and next week. We finally will you have no idea how much I just wished. I was going to the theater to see endgame is dead of hell, boy, I think it out today on the internet, or at least some of it. You can go see it. Now. Some of it did if you're spoil it for me. I will kill you. I want to know nothing. I can do it. I'm wealthy internet enough that I can totally miss all of the major spoilers that are going to roll out. Plus who believes what people say on the internet. Anyway, there's actual footage though, that is lead. I've not been able to find it, but actual footage. Was leaked. Okay. I thought you were saying the people that have seen it are talking. But if you can literally watch the movie, oh, I don't know not the whole film, but like five minutes of footage that gives a lot away from what I understand I'm excited. It's the movie I most looking forward to this entire year the coma nation of twenty two movies eleven years of excitement twenty three if you count the humans. Does I'm taking them out of the credits. We did we went to to see that. Spoiler alert in humans will no longer be in the opening credits of vendors. Come and game. Then snap in the in. Humans went to dust. It was dust before they ever got here. Anyway, if your kids are too small to watch that movie, that's probably the only people not going to theater to C N game this weekend. But if you have real young ones, maybe five year old six year old not appropriate C N game. Maybe they'd enjoy. Honey, I shrunk the kids. Instead, we are going to release a podcast this Friday might as well be that one. Maybe somebody wants to hear that groundbreaking nineteen Eighty-nine nine Phil. According to you actually gonna argue that if you listen to the show, you'll know why? Well, that's this Friday for gold level donors patrons will more than likely get to hear endgame uncut Saturday morning as that's when we're recording it and then out for. Everyone else next Tuesday. So thank you for listening steward. Jacob. Thank you for joining me. And until next time go to hell boy. What makes a man a, man? Friend of mine was wondered. Origins. Goes to life. I don't think. So it's the choices. He makes. No now, he starts things. Now, we sides to end. Thank you for listening to this episode of now, playings hell, boy retrospect is series. We hope you enjoyed the show. Yes. We're out. Come back to now playing podcast dot com. Each week for another new movie review podcast second date. And while it now playing podcast dot com. Short adjoin, our forums where you can discuss the helpfully movies with other listeners if there's trouble. Free. And then the Nell playing podcast dot com archives. You can find us of other comic book films such as Batman versus superman. 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The night go by. And hell boy is one of his agents things go to hell though. When a pig like ferry named cruise. I have it grew rich grew rich things go to hell though. When a pig like fairy named grew against wants revenge on hell boy for a previous attack and to do this. He raises Nim you played by Mia Yovich the blood Queen. Who may right new may isn't it is it saw it so fresh. I hate names. I didn't understand it when they're saying to the movie. Yeah. I hadn't either the blood Queen new may I was planning on just calling the blood Queen and this review and to do this. He raises new may played by Mia Yovich. At least it got Yovich. Right. I'm not calling her Jovic yet. Probably like the fifth element. I'm like my going to even be able to understand her. I gotta say she's much more. I get understand or now like that accent is not as thick as I remember it being it's not even presence in the resident evil movie. She's very intelligible. Okay. She's american. She is. Yeah. Okay. That explains her amazing American accident. Yes. She days confused. Yeah. I I don't think she's for an issue. I'm looking it up now. I can't. Yeah. Now, we need to sell it. Because I mean, I'm just going off gut instinct, I never thought she was four. She was born in the Ukraine, which makes sense with a name like Yovich. Okay. All right. Yeah. Born in the USSR Kiev now. Okay. I wasn't confident. She came here when she was five though. Okay. I just think of her always having an accent probably a fifth element where she talks weird. To differentiate themselves from the previous one by not having who is Seth Macfarlane's character. Claus Claus echo. Plas- mcmahon. It was Claus. Okay. I know Klaus was the fish from American dad. Maybe that's let me look it up real quick. Maybe that's what I'm confusing with golden army Johan Johan.