Jim Acosta on Reporting on Donald Trump's White House (Live) | Larry Wilmore: Black on the Air
Correct. Hey guys, welcome to the ringer podcast network its list Kelly, the co host of ti-time, your favorite celebrity, and pop culture podcasts have moved out of channel thirty three and into their very own feed called bring her dish on ringer dish. You can still listen to jam session on Wednesdays and teach him on Fridays. We'll be launching a brand new show that will publish every Monday episode so far included a heated debate on witch celebrity Chris rain supreme and a social media, deep dive on the big little lies cast, so to hear more about the Royal family and our current celebrity obsessions. Subscribe to ringer dish on apple Spotify or every get your podcasts. Thanks, jen. Thanks. Awesome. His such a great. Can you guys hear? Excellent Jim, your book, the name of people such Roenick title. Really, like Greek tragedy tragedy. Episodes. What I was gonna go man. We could only joke. And so why would you right? Does this is happening to us in real time you decided to put it down on paper? Right. I did. And I you know, I was explaining that folks, tell me to write a book. All right, a book, but no, the, the more serious side of this, and not to get too serious from the gecko is that I strongly believe, and I think I'm staying in my lane as a straight news reporter and saying that the president of the United States should not refer to press should not refer reporters as the enemy of the people, and it's a simple as. So wanna way, some potables. Yeah. So in a way, I kind of looked at this as reclaiming that expression. And, you know, my, my sense of it is, is that if it's if it's okay for the president to refer to us as the enemy of the people, who's next, what part of American society, does he referred to as the enemy of the people next. And I don't think we want to go down that road. You know, I feel very strongly about what I do as a reporter every day. I think my job is to give people the news, that's basically it. But these days when the president of the United States, it was recently found by the Washington Post utter ten thousand roughly ten thousand false or misleading statements that that well. It's you know, it's a lot, you know, and it may seem higher. Maybe the numbers a little higher. I guess if I some estimates but it's put us in a position where we're fact checkers in real time, and that under the president's skin upsets is team and his supporters. But, you know, my sense of it is, is that we can't let that get in the way of the job that we have to do. So I really want to give folks, a sense of what we do on a daily basis. What we've been through and hope at the end of the day, the folks have a better appreciation for I, I think is a very vital part of American society, and our democracy, completely and reading the book, it's funny because it takes you back and you remember how not just something happens every day, almost like something happens every hour in this. That's true in this aga- that we've been watching hang you started. When did you start following the Trump campaign, this was in January of twenty sixteen so rock Obama gave his lasted the union address? I walked out of the gates of. The White House and I did not go back to the White House until after Donald Trump became president after he was elected president. Right. So that was that was still that was after that was right before the Iowa caucus right before. Okay. So what was your feeling? When you first got close to Trump. Did you have a sense of him then that changed right away or stay the same for while? Did you have an immediate sensitive at that time? Well, I remember, you know, it's interesting that you wanna you wanna start there because I remember following them around at some of the normal stops that reporters would go to with candidates, and there was a, a pizza place, as I recall, an Iowa that he stopped in and his his security team was awfully confrontational with us. And it seemed to be almost a tone, set from the beginning for my standpoint that, wow. These guys are a little more rough than other, you know, candidates and other candidates and their teams that I've covered in the past. But the thing that was interesting about Donald Trump from the gecko that he loved the coverage as I write in the book he. Loves the coverage, but he hates the scrutiny. And so, you know, he would take our questions at press conferences. He would do these little occasional one on ones with us out on the campaign trail. But once you started poking areas he didn't like, right? That's when he would lash out at us. And you know what? My sense of it is, is that, you know, things obviously escalated over time during the campaign. He would call the dishonest dues media. The disgusting news media, and so on. And then he rolled that act into the Oval Office and it turned into fake news and the enemy of the people and he hasn't really turned back since then what was the what do you think was the turning point for you, and your ups evasion of Trump early on? What was the point where you because there was a point where people weren't taking them seriously? Right. They come on. Seriously Trump, you know, this is gonna work, but then it's lowly started to change wind for you, as a journalist, you say, you know, we need to really pay attention to this. Well, it, it, it really happened Larry before I even got out there on the campaign, Donald Trump announced his campaign for the presidency and referred to Mexican immigrants as rapists. And krimmer. Annals. That's how he launched it. That's how we launched a campaign. I said, you know what? This is something we've never seen before in American politics. And then, you know, later on that year he called for a ban on Muslims coming in the United States. And if you look at the polls at that time he was leading the Republican field. And you know, it basically stayed this way, this dynamic state in this in the same kind of place, right up until he clinched the nomination and my sense of it was during that time, even in the early days of his campaign, that we were dealing with this sort of nationalist, movement that we've never really seen before. I remember going to Trump rallies, and he would make fun of Mitt Romney, and I'm thinking to myself, this is the party's previous nominee and making fun of this guy. And in his own party, as in the crowd is going while they're loving, he would go off on the Bush family, and Donald Trump crowds, go wild, and. Anything like that before that has. So, like, puzzled me. Yeah. That his crowds Republican crowds. But I don't even know if we can call them Republican crowds. I think is base has their own identity. It seems like the trumpets party. Yes. I can't imagine people cheering that type of you know, rhetoric in volatility and hostility about their own party. Yeah. Absolutely. I write about this in the book and Mitt Romney at one point was so concerned about it. He gave the speech at the university of Utah, where he said, that Trump is a con man. And, you know, all that is voters are going to end up with a lousy hat and, you know, running joke. It was a rally Dajo. You know, and I remember covering Mitt Romney back in twenty twelve and he was this, you know, people might not like politics, but he was decent. Fatherly figure and to see the Republican party go from somebody who is like your grandfather to somebody who is Donald Trump. Let's cut to the it was, it was astonishing. You know, others murderer. You know it was he was it was just an incredible thing. And I, I kept waiting for the Republican party to say, wait a minute. We can't do this anymore. You know, Trump would say I can shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and get away with it. You could say that John McCain, wasn't a war hero and get away with it. And we were all out on the campaign trail, thinking, eventually, this is all going to catch up with them. And then it never did. Yeah. That was the thing that got me when he said that about John McCain, and he said, it would such glee. And he was also being defensive. And I thought has numbers are gonna PUM after that and nothing happened. No nothing happened. What an I talk about this in the book, one of the things that his advisors picked up on that when Trump would go out there and say these outrage. -rageous outlandish things. The news media would flock to it. You know, we were chasing the so-called, bright, shiny objects. And, you know, they thought let's keep doing this and Donald Trump's at all. Let's this is working. Let's keep doing. This and it did drive, the new cycle on a regular basis to the point where Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio Ted Cruz, and those guys said, we can't get on TV because this guy is driving the story day, and, you know, folks will say, well, did you guys give him too much attention in too much coverage? And so on. I remind folks he was the Republican front runner throughout the almost the entire process. And so the question I ask, is news organization, you know, whereas journalists, how do you not cover the front runner as the front runner? You know, it's sort of like what people ask me now, you know, should you be reporting on the president should we be reporting on the president's tweets. Well, you know, the question speaks volumes should we be reporting on the president, you know, or should we importing on what he says the questions, you know, the question suggests that perhaps we shouldn't because of the things that he says, but we can't stop covering him. He's the president, well C N N's taken a lot of flack from some of their people, I think you mentioned even in your book, Jeffrey Toobin, a mess show us very apologetic. But I get it you know, there's. A crash. She kind of have to cover that crash. That's right. Yeah. But it did is their journalistic regretful nece with some of that, or I think that lessons were learned for sure. And I think what you're gonna see moving forward is you're gonna see less of those rallies covered. And, and, and I think where you're going to see more of. Disappointed. And what you see more of is, you know, we'll go to the rally, we'll go to the correspondent at the rally after over and they'll say, okay, Jim what did he say you know what happened there? And then maybe you know, as a guest with the anchor, they'll be fact checker, we hired this great new fact checker Daniel Dale, from the Toronto Star, people might know who he is. He's kind of social media celebrity now because he is like this fact, check guru. I think he knows Donald Trump's falsehoods, better than Donald Trump does. And I think what you're gonna see moving forward is, you know, savvier coverage of what he does because he does throw this stuff out there. I write of the book, you know, senior White House official one time said to me, you know, Donald Trump rules by creating instability, you know, he, he makes everything on stable around him that way, he controls the chaos, and he was doing it on the campaign trail. And he's doing it now, I, I look at it a little differently to me I feel like he's the WWF president. You know. That's true. Yeah he likes spectacle. It's like, you know, of course he's into his brand, and everything. But those rallies to me what was interesting was the spectacle of it. You know, you're waiting for somebody to get body slam literally, you know in in for complicating punch. Yes, you're looking for confrontation happen, and all those things, you know. And it felt like that then transferred over into his relationship with the press that same type of WWF type of confrontation the way he calls people. It's like you know, he's wrestler, any gives people nicknames. Even you know, it really is those clips of Donald Trump during the days when he was a reality TV star pro wrestling matches and pretending the bodies lamb people pretending to get in fights with folks, and, you know, he has been in observer participant in this kind of reality TV stick for a long time now. So we shouldn't be surprised when we see it on national television as the president of the United States. But, you know, one of the things that I tell folks is that, yes, you know, he, he is sort of pulling these reality TV maneuvers on. On us from time to time, but that doesn't change when we have to do at, at CNN or what we do in the press, we still have to cover this as a serious serious thing. This isn't reality TV, this isn't a joke. These are very important matters that, that, you know, are critical to all of our daily lives into the security and safety of the world. You know, when people ask, you know, does it matter if the president's, you know is honest were should we just take him seriously? Not literally or right now, we have a national security crisis going on with Iran. So, you know, the credibility of the United States. Government is important as turns out when it comes to, you know, is the public going to believe you know, if we're getting to a national security crisis, the public trust which Trump says about, you know, what's happening with Iran if for ten thousand other times, he's been caught and these walkers, and these falsehoods. Do you think Trump has changed or is changing? We help people relate to the presidency. I mean he, he seems to have a different. I mean. May sometimes these things happening. You can't go back. You can't put that genie in the bottle. You know, the way he communicates directly with the public, I think that is a change of Trump has learned, the power of, of communicating directly for good or for bad through Twitter, which I don't know how you guys cover. That is dot easy. How do you how do you cover his Twitter? Because do you look at those as fischel statements or? Ramblings of. Was that was a question during one of the press briefings with Sean Spicer. You know, somebody did ask the question are the tweets considered official statements of the president and Spicer said, yes. Which I'm not sure they really wanted him to say you know they are official statements that. So I mean, I'll just tell people how my day starts my day starts at the crack of dawn, wake up. I look at my phone and they're all these affiliations on my phone. The president's been up tweeting since I before I was awake. And some of those tweets are factually challenged, and the, you know, I'm being diplomatic and we just got started. But, you know, sitting on his gold toilet at three. Or whatever color is. But, you know, this is made us fact, checkers and real time we spent a lot of our time and energy fact checking the tweets fact shaking his statements, and people will say, well, why do you spend so much time doing that? And my question is, will my goodness. What would our sense of the world be, what would our sense of the truth? Be in reality. If we didn't correct the record, you know, ten thousand walkers would be hanging out there as the truth as reality. We can't do that. Yeah. Some of. It's so frustrating for me what I think like, when you say, ten thousand was it the Stalin, quote, where you said, one, one death as a murder a million statistic or something like that. I'm paraphrasing. But it almost seems like Trump is on that with lying, you know, like one fifth is alive, but ten thousand lies. What does that become that becomes his version of reality as oppose? Right. Right. And he has his own version of reality. It seems and I talked to now you have to debate him on his terms, sometimes his version of reality, and people ask, you know, about these press conferences, and how we go back and forth and why is it so conventions and so forth. Well, if the first time you asked the question what you get is a line of BS, you know, you do have to keep poking and prodding, whether it's the president or Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Sean Spicer, and, you know, you can't just take what they say, face value. You know, I take folks back to the very first full day, the administration when Sean Spicer came out there and told everybody that Donald Trump. Had the biggest inauguration crowd size and the history of the country, and he didn't take any questions that day. And we all of us in the press corps. You're like you're sitting where where we were, and he came out and he said this, and we all looked at each other afterwards, and we were like my God. What just happened here? What is going on it, it really rocked our worlds under Obama. You know, the press secretary Josh earnest would come out, or Jay Carney would come out and they were talked for an hour, and it would get to the point where the reporters in the briefing room would say, okay, thanks, Josh. Thanks J. We're done. We're ready to go. Now, we gotta get back to work, and Joshua say, oh, no. Let me take another question. And with with this current crew, you know, we're lucky if we even have a briefing, Sarah Sanders, not had a briefing and over one hundred days she gets she gets paid a lot of money to be a spokesperson for the United States government. How is that accountability? How is that being accountable to the people what she does these days Shogo out? She'll do a live interview with Fox News. And then on. On our way back to office. She might stop and talk to the rest of us for a few minutes. And then go back into office how what world we live in. It's interesting. You brought up the whole Sean Spicer thing with the with the mo-. I find that I lie and unbelievably incredible, I am so an admiration of that lie. He was it was an amazing because we saw the truth. The dance of that lie ships kiss. It's really fantastic. Masterpiece is a masterpiece by because he's he's saying, I don't give a shit what you just saw don't give it shit about the truth shit is going to change your right now. And we know he saw this, this like, when people say, will Hillary lies to Hillary like, like a politician Trump lies like a crackhead. That's the difference. Alcoholic. He challenges reality itself challenges us to fuck with what he just said. And that where God bless you. Mr President newer, my inside voice. It's fantastic. Because thing about this. He comes out. That's as I when he comes out with that he comes out of the gate. He's Yelm, the games changing now changes to bit where you just thought out of my head. That's what he did. That's why this is amazing. This is going to play this and think about all the his the best lies have that quality to they do. It's true saying Trump's best lies, right? And what either Mazen? I mean what, what we noticed at the beginning of all of this was that? I mean, his, his credibility was basically shot on the very first day of the administration. So people are wondering, well, why is it during these briefings afterwards? Why folks, you saw the clips of people rolling their eyes are talking about this before? And they're, you know, montages of April, Ryan my colleagues rolling their eyes. And so on because, you know, a little point, we're, we're in the briefing room. We're supposed to be journalists with bases here, and we can't believe what we're here and you know, and it's like you know, sometimes they they're asking us. You know, are you are you being too contentious and asking these questions? Sometimes we just wanna make sure did we hear that correctly? You know is out. Is that right? And so that is, and then the second part of that, too, is okay. So not only is that out. They've been Trump gets Sean Spicer tube to double down, and he's great. He's got a swallow that thing that big horse pill in his mouth. And, you know, the horse pills sticking up everybody to see everybody knows he had to swallow that crab, you know. Yeah. You can barely even get it out as he saying, and which is another thing because, now he's got his cruise peddling has lines. And, and that's what people lost sight of, as I write in the book, I think was Sarah and Sean law sight of is that they work for the American people. They work for the tax payers. They don't work for the Trump organization. They don't work for Donald Trump, Trump. They're not a contestant on one of his reality shows. They're working for us. And this is reality. You know that was the also the first time. I think you writing your to Kellyanne Conway said, alternative facts. Right. And you say that she actually, I guess she said this to you or somebody that she ashes additional information and I'll turn of. Or was it all additional alternative information, and additional additional facts? Yeah, she just kinda jumbled it all together, but she say she's, I mean she's one of the few people to our credit who sat down with the on the record for this Trump wouldn't do it Seir wouldn't do it. She and Steve Bannon did it Kellyanne Steve, Bannon debt and Kellyanne says she claims she didn't mean to say alternative facts, you meant to say alternative information, and additional facts and they got much together. Now we have slips for reason you have forty slips for a reason, and people can take that with grain of salt. But what I found interesting. And you'll see this also in the book is that she also says, I don't agree with the term the enemy of the people, and she also says, I don't agree with taking kids away from their parents at the border. So I thought it was. Surprising that here's somebody who's very senior White House official disagreeing with the president on multiple different occasions. And saying it out loud to one of his least favourite reporters, so and I found that to be the case Leary throughout the writing of this book and through my reporting CNN is that there are people working inside. Forget the people up on Capitol Hill, or the people working inside, the, the White House who don't agree with what's going on or exhausted by his behavior and his rhetoric and so on the so-called deep state. I don't know if that I don't think that's the deep state as I like to say, if you're talking about the deep state, you're in deep something else. No. I mean, a lot of these folks who come to us Larry are our folks that are I described them as patriotic Americans or people who they see a report is trying to get to the bottom of something and they want to help out now. Are there some folks who are trying to spin us and knife and other, you know, rival inside this chaotic west wing in the back and so on sure there's some of that, that goes on? But you know as. In the book, you know, there's one national security official to me, who said to me that he couldn't tell whether the president was advancing US interests and could not explain why Trump was so cozy with Ladimir Putin and gave him a soccer soccer ball. But I thought that was pretty shocking coming from a national security official working inside the ministration. And, you know, when, when the Ladimir Putin was running for reelection, and March of twenty eighteen Trump wanted to send them clipping in the mail. A newspaper clipping saying, good luck flat. Amir hope you do. Well, you know, this kind of stuff is, we're having fun or joking around here with some of the stuff is really serious, and it's been you know, it's been a heck of a ride trying to keep tabs of it all mainly. Because as you and I were talking about this before we came out here, it's just sort of an exhausting new cycle on after another. But we have no choice. We've got to stay on top of this and your transcripts. Let's interesting, it's hard not to laugh a lot. And this too, is especially. When you're when you're reading the way that you're talking to the president. And when you see his words on the page and your interruptions, are Larry because you're always trying to get to that today to that kind of point, you know, I mean, do you feel let me ask you this personally? Do you feel like you're? How should I say this? Do you feel like you have a partisan view on the way that you ask the president questions? Or do you feel like you're, you're having you want to get to the truth? I think that there are lots of different ways to get at the truth. And I think sometimes you have to poke and prod them and certain places to see if you can get them to break out of their talking points because he even has his own talking. Right. But, you know, one of the things that was astounding to me in this was at the February twenty seventeen press conference. We were going back and forth over the Russian investigation, and the firing of Michael Flynn that astral, skirt visor, and so on. And it was during this press conference where he called me, very fake news. And I thought, okay, well, he's done it again. And then after the press conference is over, I get this phone call in from hope Hicks. One of his top aides. And she goes Jim, I just want you to know that the president thought you were very professional today. And she said the president says Jim gets it. And I think to myself, wait a minute. Five minutes ago. He's calling me, very fake news. And then after the press conference his aid is calling me and saying, Jim gets he's very professional, what that says to me is that this is an act, and I talked to a crushing well. I hope not Larry. I really hope not. I'm trying to say for all. This is. Yeah. No, let's not do that kind of stuff. Trey drags. Where was I in that story there? No, crushes on you. He's. Mukasa very good reporter, that and that also up at that press conference, but my sense of it was is that it started off as this act as this reality TV schtick. And when he found out that we weren't Meatloaf and Rosa and some of the other characters from the frankly, there wasn't. True. That was she. He's just a good point. Might be in there somewhere. Gary, I don't know. Somewhere in there. Probably eating me low. We weren't going along as like characters from the Rentis, and we were saying hold on a second as president. That's not true. I think that's when we started getting under his skin. And I think you know, maybe this was you know what I do wasn't something. He anticipated season two or season, three of the White House apprentice, when did when was the first time he used fake news that term, remember fake news was something, he used for the first time at a press conference in January of twenty seventeen. This was his press conference during the transition at least nine days before he was sworn into office. CNN had just broken the story that the US intelligence community had gone to the president-elect and said, Mr President, the Russians may have compromising information on you this may affect your presidency, you know, watch out and, you know, I Sean Spicer comes out and uses the term fake news. And then Mike Pence comes out and uses the term fake news. And then Donald Trump does the same thing. And I thought you know what? The this starting to bug me. I you know, after we had been abused out there on the campaign trail and called the dishonest. Speedy and disgusting news media and so on. I thought you know what this is this is different? This is more than just attacking the press. This is taking story that was true in real and trying to say that it was fake this was telling people that up was down and black white, and my sense was the president of the United States, can't do that. You can't just go into the Oval Office, pulling the wool over people's eyes like this. And so I tried to, but in an ask them a question, and that's when he said, no, no, you're terrible, your fake news. But and, and what we've seen ever since then is the president calling stories that he doesn't like fake news. And is I write in the book, every time he calls his fake news. That that's usually a tell, you know, like a poker player has it's completely. And it's usually when we're onto something I like to call the truth. You know that that is when we're when we're drilling down to that point where he is going. Back to those insults. And that sort of thing, that's what I tell folks. Okay. This is what we all need to pay really close. Attention is that is. When we've, we've hit on something I love your book. We're talking about the leaks. I mean that White House. It leaks like it was unbelievable cheese grater, you know. And he said, well, the leaks are real, but the news is fake. Yeah. It's a mind bender. I mean I don't know. That's usually say check, please. I'm outta here. No. I mean. Yeah. That was that happened. During one of those moments, the information is correct. But your reporting of it is fake. That's right. And you know, Leslie Stahl to her credit over a CBS. She one point reported that Donald Trump personally told her that he calls, stories fake news. And he goes off on the press, because he doesn't want the public to believe what we say so at that press conference when you call very fake news. One of the things I asked him was Mr President, when you do that, aren't you undermining the public's confidence in the press, aren't you undermining people's confidence in what they hear what they see any kind of started started to agree with that he says, you know, you're right about that. But and then he got back to how he feels a badly treated by the press. And in my point of it is, wait a minute. You know, folks say to me all the. Time. Well, why is it that the approval levels for the press are so low right now? Well, if the president of the United States is running down on a regular basis, of course, they're going to be folks out there who confidence and us, and one of the things I get to towards the end of this book as we can't have a situation in this country, where half of the country believes what the president says, or what is ally saying conservative media, and then what everybody else believes because they're getting it from the mainstream press, if we're not dealing with a common set of facts, and common sense of the truth. We're in big trouble t think the public is at that point now, do you think the president has voted trusts in what we can call mainstream press? I think he has, I think that, you know, a lot of his supporters, you know, and I see this out the rallies. You know, go to these rallies. And I get, you know, combination of things I get the middle finger. I get people yelling at me and saying all sorts of things, and then some of them will say, can I have a selfie? So it's a mixed. They give you the middle finger. Sometimes they do that. There's it's. They satisfy both urges. But what, what I find what's interesting about the rallies, or one of the reasons why I like covering the rallies is that it's sort of like holding up a mirror to America, and it is sort of tapping into the mindset of, of Trump supporter, because what I often find is that they're selling us, essentially what they've been told on the president's favourite media outlets. And I hear kind of the same talking points. And I think to myself, my goodness, you know, folks are being immersed in the stuff they're saying those same thing, they're saying, I mean, I remember going to one from rally, and there was a baby a onesie that says CNN is faked. And I'm thinking to myself, baby, a one sees this button. I mean, what's next in utero, indoctrinating, you know, like that, that to me is, is a worrying sign, and you see these signs at the rallies, people holding up signs talking about various conspiracy theories. And as I write in the book, this really shouldn't come as a surprise anybody. When you have a conspiracy theorist in the White House, you know, and folks might say, well, maybe that's too harsh should you be saying that we'll remember Donald Trump was one of the leading proponents of one of the biggest false conspiracy theories of all time, which is Barack Obama wasn't born in the United States that is a false bogus conspiracy theory. So it shouldn't come as big surprise folks, that many of his supporters, also, adopt conspiracy theories as fact as well as disturbing as it may seem to you, and I hung to us as a member of the press. How do you deal with the, the overseas part of it that to me is some of the most agree GIS present? Overseas. I think Helsinki was one of the places to where he will just to mean the pressing. Call them out. I think that is even worse than what he does here. How do you guys deal with that sort of thing? Well, I think your heads exploding a little bit. Yeah. No question about it. And I mean, I'll, I'll tell you, this is what it's like you go on these road trips with president, you go over seas. And you're essentially at the mercy of the White House, and their handlers, and so on, because they're moving from one event to the next, and, yeah, when the president goes off, on us in front of the press for say a foreign government that we're visiting that day, you know, it is pretty depressing. Because the United States of America is supposed to be this beacon of democracy all over the world. We're supposed to be setting the example for all of these countries everywhere else. And I and I mentioned this one story when we went abroad, with present went to Asia, and he met with the, the guy who's in charge of the Philippines, right now, this guy Rodrigue, oh, do Tei was a brutal essentially an autocrat dictator now. In that country. And there was this one press conference where do territory refers to us as spies. He says, I'm not gonna talk to you guys. You're the spies and Trump started laughing along with that, you know, and it may be thing you know, if you're the president of the United States, okay, if you're not gonna stand up for us at that moment in time, which maybe it should have you should have at least don't laugh along when the dictator causes spies. You know you know this has happened on multiple occasions and, you know, right in front of Theresa May, he called me fake news. At a press conference, remember that in Britain before the Helsinki summit, and, you know, the world is watching, you know, the world is watching this, and they're taking note, and this is why you have long standing US allies data partners, who question, whether they do it openly now, whether or not, they can count on the United States, whose hands does that play into, of course, it plays Vladimir Putin's hands and the other folks were watching around the world, those other autocrats and. Dictators, those other foreign governments around the world that don't respect our values. They're seeing the president. The United States degrade, you know, the discourse in such a way that I think it opens doors for them and invites them to sort of be his many, many me on the world stage, and we just don't know what the consequences of that are going to be like. But my, my sense of it is, if we don't see either a force correction in his behavior were, you know, on the national level in terms of our elections. You're going to see other governments around the world. Start taking a page from him. You know, this, this happened, just recently not drone on too long about this. The president of Brazil came to the White House. They've new hard, right? President of Brazil also Daro, and he came to the White House for a joint press conference in the rose garden and are referred to stories back in Brazil as fake news. And so now it's like a virus that's spreading around the world. And it's interesting how he likes to buddy up with these strong men. Around the world. I mean joking with Kim Jong UN he wants to be his buddy so bad. You know, it's, it's just really shocking to me, some people feel that Trump wants to be that here. I don't think he's like this brilliant, Machiavellian. I just think he's an immature three-year-old. That's interesting own brand, but I could be wrong. Do you is there a sense of fear about that? Trump has an ulterior motive in this or is he just really not that complicated? Well, he keeps joking about, you know, maybe we'll have a third term or they'll add on some years to term and office, because he feels, you know, cheated by the Muller investigation, Bill Maher, thanks. He's not gonna leave if. Talked to a political, you know, analysts in this book law. You know, a time political science professor, Larry Sabato at the university of Virginia respected guy presidential scholar. And he said, never since Richard Nixon have ever worried about a president carrying out a coup stay in office. Now, this is not some crackpot. This is Larry Sabato from the university of Virginia, who doesn't throw around that kind of rhetoric. And so there are real concerns out there. I think that'll be a very big moment for the Republican party, and I write about this in the book. There have been so many moments during the first two years of this president's presidency, where the Republican party had an opportunity to slam the brakes on some of this behavior and hit the pause button on some of this rhetoric and they just didn't do it because they were getting an exchange for going along with the president's rhetoric and behavior. They were getting tax cuts. They were getting conservative judges, and they were getting things like that. And they weren't, you know. Saying, hey, miss president, you shouldn't call the process of the enemy of the people or heinous president, you should refer to immigrants in this fashion. And my sense of it is, if, if Donald Trump doesn't want to go willingly at the end of this term. I can't believe I'm even talking about this as if this was a possibility, but people do worry about this. Yeah. It's going to be a huge moment for the Republican party, because my sense of it is that they're going to they're going to have to be the ones to say, that's it. Mr President is time to go. Yeah. That sentiment. I guess, I suppose what do you what do you expect to see in this next election in terms of Trump? Do you think he's gonna try to do his thing, the same way? Just or is he turned the Democrats into you guys? Well, he's starting to do that. You know, he didn't have, you know, the, the villain pro wrestler, there at the beginning of his administration. That's yeah. Kind of what we got turned into. And now he's got Democrats to run against these starting to do that. You know, I think he's got a really big uphill climb going into twenty twenty. We saw him go back to that issue of immigration during the twenty eighteen midterms. Remember he was referring to that caravan of migrants as an invasion and he was trying to push peoples buttons again. Yeah. The way he did during the twenty sixteen can't you, you really push them on that pile on that point? And you know, one of the things that we. Was Republican operatives, you know, they're folks up on Capitol Hill saying, don't do this. We don't want you doing this, because you were going to turn off people in these swing districts. You know, and that's what happened in a lot of these house races. One of the reasons why the Democrats swept into power and such a huge decisive fashion is because there were folks in these swing districts who said, you know, we're tired of this immigration rhetoric. This does not work on us and people forget that midterm elections typically favor of the Republican party. If you look at the turnout for midterms, it's usually the Republicans who turn out and higher numbers in presidential elections. Those the years, one Democrats turn out in higher numbers, the Democratic Party won by an eight point margin in twenty eighteen midterms. What does that tell you that this margin could be even higher twenty twenty so what did we see? Donald Trump just do this past week right before his first official kickoff rally down in Orlando, Florida. What's the issue that he hits immigration? Remember, he put out that tweet earlier this week that said there, we're going. Have this big round up of of undocumented immigrants all across the country. And then we reached out to our sources. I talked to a senior administration official who said there's nothing happened. There's nothing imminent happening. He's just throwing stuff out there now they, they may have operations happening down the road. But he said, there's nothing imminent this, there's nothing imminent and so he's trying to go back to this issue of immigration, because he knows it is it it's exciting for his base. But it didn't work for him in the twenty eighteen midterms. And my sense of it is, he's kind of feeling around, what am I gonna do this time around in twenty twenty to get the same thing going again? And, you know, he may he may find that in twenty twenty he's not going to be able to replicate what he did in two thousand sixteen because Gration was such a strong. I always felt that he won because of immigration. And when I say one, I mean that's what electrified is base was the was that issue. But it and people call read me. I don't even think it's red meat for his base. I think it's like LSD first base. This hallucinogen that they think people are invading country. While that's, that's the way I describe it. You know, it's like California's still California. Yeah. Was not the colony of new. Wata. Malla. You know, they didn't raise the Mexican flag over Los Angeles or anything like that and down on the border. It wasn't like a scene game a game of thrones catapults shooting boulders over the border. There were like moms with little kids with the explorer strollers and stuff like that. You know, and my sense of it is, is that we've seen this with this issue of immigration is a criminal ization, and demonization of, of desperation, and you have people coming to this country because they're desperate to leave these, you know, gang infested places in Central America. They're not coming here to change our way of life or take jobs away from people that, that, they, you know, that normally find they're doing it because they're in big trouble down there. And, you know, I get it that we need to have borders, and we did have security in this country. But my goodness. How can we get to a point in this country and I write about this in the book where we're taking kids away from their parents. I don't get that. I still don't get that. And I think it's okay. Yeah. I mean, I think it's okay as a straight news reporter to say that I write in the book, there aren't two sides to a story. There aren't two sides to a story when it's a matter of right versus wrong. And I, I think I thought about that because I'm a parent. Wow. What are we going to say to ourselves five ten fifteen years from, now when we go back and look at this footage of these kids being separated from their parents? It makes me shake my Honey do personally. I mean, when you went through the whole thing, where you were accused of hitting the intern or, or smack him, or whatever was with the doctor video. Yes. But personally that's you know, it kinda crosses that line a little bit. It seems as professional was that a tough thing to deal with. I you know, I couldn't believe it. You know, I was there on that subject of the caravan, I was asking the president about this and say miss president, you're calling invasion of innovation and we went back and forth and he got he got very upset. You know, if there's one thing he doesn't like he doesn't like being called out for his dishonesty, and he doesn't like being called out for his insensitive and offensive rhetoric. Anyway, doesn't like to be called up for just talk. Our just talking. Situation. It was kind of a double whammy. I mean he was doing both at the same time and all of the sudden, I'm, I'm looking over here and there's this intern coming for my microphone, and you can see in the video, I recoil I, I pulled back, and I say, pardon me, ma'am. And she, you know, for a moment or two tries to, to take the microphone she goes away. And then, you know, I go back about doing my business. I do my life shot on CNN. Do my story for wolf Blitzer that night I leave I go to dinner, I'm coming back to the White House, and I'm looking at my phone all of a sudden, see this notification on my phone. It's a statement from Sarah Sanders, not to me, but to the whole world, Jim Costa's press pass has been revoked. And I and I think to myself. Wow. And it says, and we will not tolerate a reporter laying his hands on a White House intern like Bill Clinton, all of the sudden or something like that. You know, and it's like wait a minute. I didn't do that. And then, you know, and so I re- tweeted her tweet, and I said, this is a lie. And I think to this day, it's got like ninety nine thousand retweets or something like that. And then later that night to defend herself. She goes, and we stand by our decision, and here's the video. Here's why. And that was the doctor video that was that they put out where they actually sped up the video to make it look like I did this karate chop motion on the internet. Remember the karate shop, does everybody remember that. And I tell folks pork chops, I know karate chops, I don't know. You know, I'm not, you know, there, there's no black belts that they hand out, and I don't have anything along those lines. But, but I thought to myself, you know, all kidding aside that we're sort of in this George Orwell nineteen Eighty-four upside down world, where the White House, the United States government people forget that they're like, oh, that's just Sarah Sanders, Sean Spicer, Donald Trump. That's not the White House. That's just the TV show. We watch. No. It's the United States government. Using your tax dollars to put out a doctor video. And we found out that that video came from the people over at Infowars, which I hate even saying the name of that website because it's such a discredited conspiracy theory ridden, you know, bogus website, and I'm thinking to myself. Wow. We're paying how much money to put out Dr videos from Infowars. It was just mind bending. And so, but to CNN's credit, there was no hesitation. There was no wishy washiness. They decided right away. This is an important first amendment case, we took the, the Trump administration took the White House to court the, you know, the, the lawsuit said, you know, CNN, and Jimmy cost versus Donald J Trump, and that at that moment, I was like, wow. Okay. This is heavy this, this is not the people's court. It's not judge Judy this. I wish we're judge Judy of God. I was I was dead. No. We didn't get Schutte. We got Trump judge. And I remember thinking that myself I write about this book. I'm like, oh, man. We got Trump of when a judge my goose might be cooked here. But even the Trump appointed judge said, you know what I've got to go with, you know, case law and precedent and you know there was a court case that had been handled in this in a similar fashion where essentially, they just took somebody's press pass away didn't give them their rights. And, you know, the judge follow that essentially to the conclusion that we, we ended up with. But what I remind folks about, and you'll read about this in the book is, you know, consider the case that the Trump administration was making the Trump administration's own lawyers Justice department lawyers, we had lawyers on behalf the United States, Justice department arguing against me paid for with your tax dollars. And they made the argument in federal court, that the president of the United States can pick and choose who covers the White House. They made that argument, of course, they said that if the president doesn't like the coverage that you're doing or the reporting that you're doing that the. White House can say you know what you're out of here, we can take away your press pass, and I thought you know what if we ended up being unsuccessful in that case, the judge ruled against CNN, first of all, we were gonna appeal it could go on forever. But it would have put a real chilling effect on the first amendment and free speech in this country. And I'm not trying to puff up. What happened with me or anything, but you could have had governors, the governor of the state, the mayor of the city say, well, we're not gonna, you know, have this station at this press conference anymore because we don't like the covers that you did. And by the way, we're, we're backing this up because of what happened in the case of CNN versus Trump. It would've established a precedent across the country that elected officials could toss out journalists that they don't like and my goodness, at that point the question, I ask, is does that sound like the United States of America any more? My goodness. No, actually does to me. Because I don't think so. I mean, I really Richard Nixon, he wouldn't, let CBS coming to the White House, a couple of times excluded some reporters from that I think even Obama did some stuff with Fox News. I think the president president stood up when, when Obama tried that with FOX the rest of the press corps said you know what? Ms president. You can't do that. And to go after the brother. Fox's credit. They were one of the first ones to come along and support us, in our court case. And I think they realize, you know, it's not so good when the shoe is on the other foot, and I remind my friends in conservative media. There's no guarantee you to stay in power forever. There's no guarantee that tribe, or Donald Trump junior or vodka travel, wherever they wanna do next guest to be in the White House. I was just making sure you're paying attention. And, you know, you know, you I say to my Republican friends and conservative colleagues in the media like do you want democratic presidents come in and say, okay, we'll Donald Trump did it to CNN. We're going to do it to you guys. You're outta here. We can't keep going down that road. That's not that's not gonna work for anybody. Do you think? Fox News is turning against Trump. He seems to be worried about that. It would be fantastic. Yeah. I mean, I think they troll him sometimes too, which is not having a great time this shit. Man. I love I love chef. He loves to troll, Trump. Yeah, I turn the lights off and just. He's doing a great job over there. He really is. And you know what we hear from folks from time to time is that and I write about this in the book, is that, you know, he Donald Trump is a dicta- dec-, and he is obsessed and he watches all the time because you got breaking news. He can't stop watching things. Breaking it must be a me. Right. That's right. But this one senior White House official said to me, he, he loves to watch you guys all the time, but he washes FOX to make himself feel better. Yes. I think he has some kind of odd relationship of Jeff Zucker too, you know, because they go back to the apprentice he was running in be Seebeck at the time and I think it's a competitive type of thing he doesn't wanna see Jeff win or something like it's a little weird. And so I think it's really something is I think it's rooted in something like. I will say this, you know, Jeff has made it very clear to the White House to Sarah Sanders to Donald Trump, that this rhetoric has got to stop when that self-described Trump supporters Caesar say ox, a pipe bomb to CNN various mechanic officials around the world. Jeff have really been biding his time on route a lot of this wasn't sending out statements all the time. And Jeff had finally had enough and at that point, that's when he put out the statement that said the president's words matter, and you know as, as we have been saying, CNN lately, just because you are pro truth doesn't mean you're anti Trump. You know, the truth has to mean something in this country. It may not it may mean more to us and to the current occupant of the Oval Office. But that doesn't mean we stopped doing our jobs. And, you know, to just credit to the credit of the people at CNN they stood behind me every step of the way, and I know that they're folks there, sometimes they don't agree with everything that we do. But when it when it came down to defending the first amendment. Speech in this country. The right of a free press. I thought CNN you know, really did everybody a solid during that whole episode? And you know, it's one of the reasons why proud to work there. I know in this time as soon as you know, all come on Jim is this one of the promos or something like that, but make fun of saying, I know. But that's okay. That's we we. Here's the thing, we, we can take it all good natured because I just, you know, it's my invasion seen, and always breaking news. And now they literally are breaking news. You know, but I thank you to get it on the way home. That's fine too. You know what I what I folks is, and I mean this, and I know we live in the cynical time and folks, don't wanna believe this and think it's Courtney and stuff like that our hearts are in the right place. Larry. They really are. And, you know, when it's Anderson Cooper or wolf Blitzer or Jake tapper versus Cuomo. Dana bash, my colleagues over the White House. These are some folks who are dealing with an unprecedented situation and some very difficult times. And it was not like we want a parade thrown fours, or anything like that. China make about we're not trying to make it about us. We are looking at this as a very serious time in this country. And I think we approach it like that. Yeah. Well, let's take some questions for mister go around with the microphone and choose. This is where I insult. The question if I like the question you ask, I'm going to call you a name. I hope you don't you should try Trumpian and pro. All right. I love her just a quick reminder questions around here. Start typically with the W H sometimes a D. They're generally short. There is no such thing as a two part question and tonight, only Larry Wilmore gets to ask the follow up question, many rules, I had the whole two part question, but I'll only make one just so. How do you fair it out? The news inside the White House when Sarah Sanders this, not having these price briefings. How are you getting those nuggets out of people oddly enough? We have more truth coming out. No. Know what I find is that there are folks who still want to talk to us. And just in case folks, don't have all the vernacular down, or whatever we talked to officials from time to time on what we call on background where they give us the information but they don't tell us who they are. They don't want their name attached to the information, we can still talking to various sources, put together, what's happening on a daily basis in that fashion. Now, the other thing is as mentioned earlier, Sarah, we'll go do these live exclusive interviews with FOX, and then she'll come down the driveway and talk to us on the day that the full Muller report came out, not the whitewashed version that first came out, but the full model report came out. We had to settle for Sarah Sanders driveway gaggle as we call it to ask questions. And that was the day where I asked her, I said, well, if the president weren't the president would he be charged with a crime right now because remember the whole? We'll see memo that basically says Justice department guidelines that say, you know, the president can't be charged with a crime, but president can't be indicted. Those are the kinds of questions that we used to ask in the briefing room when the lights were on the cameras are on and there was one reporter chasing after Sarah after she was finished that day saying, Sarah. Why don't you go in the briefing room, the breathing room? It's thirty feet away and saying that the podium like you used to. Is more difficult now but we're trying our best to talk to sources inside the administration. And the other thing is Donald Trump likes being his own communications director. He might like being his own press secretary, there's about opening press secretary and he likes talking to us. And so we, you know, I don't know if you want to call that information, but we, that's you know, that is how we get the administration's take on things. But, you know, we talked to folks up on Capitol Hill. We talked to folks inside the Republican party advisers to the president. And we put all of that together and try to get at something that is pretty darn close to the truth. And I think we do a solid job of Trump is so hockey for attention, but then he says stupid. He's like his own deep throat half the time. Veal and things about him. Run of you. There's an expression that we have down this business. There's a there's a tweet for that, you know, when, for example, he deep throat's himself in tweets for example, today, we're talking about that triple on time. No, we're, we're talking about Iran, and there's a tweet back from twenty twelve where he says Barack Obama's going to start a war with a run in order to get reelected. And it's like you know, you can't make this stuff up. It's sort of, like, you know, like a time machine back to, you know, the way he used to think back, then it's kind of amazing someone back then. Yes. I wanna I salute your bravery and your true patriotism, so much. And along those lines was driving here tonight. I actually heard him talking on the news saying, you know, that drone that where over to Iran didn't have any people. But if it had had people in that would have been a real problem. You're right. VS all the time too. There's some of these Larry take. I'm just going to. The team with the highest score wins. We do have a question I just want, and I could be wrong that I heard recently that CNN had either different management or different president or something like that. And a that may not be true. But I did hear on the radio, and if so will that change any of your reporting, we have a new company, we have a company AT and T Bossie and yes, and to AT and T credit? And again, I'm not trying to sound like a corporate PR here, AT, and T was very much on board with the press pass case they didn't hesitate either and, you know, big corporation like that they could have gone wildly on us, but they did. And but ours are saying, president is the one who's been there for the past six years, just. And I think we've got a good team over there. They have not asked me to change my reporting change. What I do. Nobody's told our folks. You be a little less tough on, on the president or anything like that. And I think it's to everybody's credit at CNN that we've maintained that same approach in posture because my goodness, you know you can just imagine the situation I can see you're not in your head bam. You could imagine a situation where, you know, executive over here talks to the White House over here, and the fixes in, you know what we're determined to do over there to make sure we're still doing the news. You know, sort of damned torpedoes, you know, at this point, because this is a very important time and this is vital information that we're talking about that you deserve. Well. Banking. Story broke today, and I'm not sure that it's accurate. I'll try to help you out that, that from intends to tweet rebuttals during democratic debates. Yes. Should should the media carry those? I mean it seems to me that that's who is he. Tweets. Rebuttals. Well, anyway. Alive. Yeah. The media even cover those during the debates really not this -rupt of I mean, it seems that it's mad anyway, I think you're going to see a lot less of that. I think you're gonna see a lot less of covering the trolling and the team. You know, we're we have caught on. We're, you know, we're starting to connect the dots. You know, we're seeing the patterns and I just think you're gonna see a lot less of that. I really do. I think you're going to see more fact checking you're gonna see more investigative reporting. You know, they've been talking to me about getting out there and covering, you know, sexy topics deregulation and stuff like that. So, you know, folks covering insert, yeah. So we're, we're putting some meat on, on the bones of what we're seeing out there because a lot of folks will say, all you do is cover the tweets and all you do is cover the daily drama. We wanna know what's happening with the environment. What I talked to my own kids about what the most important story is right now. They'll say climate change, you know. We are covering hell of a lot of climate change these days. Let me tell you and you may not believe that to be the case. But I'll point you to some of my colleagues who are now doing a lot of coverage on that. And I think the public just response to almost instantaneously because it is something that we all have the sense of my goodness. We've seen the you guys have perfect beautiful weather here Angeles. But if you look at the national data over the last twenty years, most of the hottest years on record have occurred in the last twenty years, and the most powerful hurricanes have been happening over the last two or three decades that points to very serious problem with the climate the Arctic ice is retreating in ways that we haven't seen in a very long time. There are some major indicators happening right now that the planet is in trouble. And so I think you're gonna see us focus on issues like that moving forward heading into this campaign. So it's not just. About the tweets and the usual back and forth with Nancy Pelosi and so on. And I think people are going to be better served in the long run because of that. In the corner over here. We're kind of the Mike. What is your sense of the connection or the relationship, the true relationship between Donald Trump and flat Putin Donald Trump and Putin? Yeah. I mean that's the million dollar question. I gotta tell you. I mean, and that's why put it in my book. I talked to top national security official who said I can't, I can't explain this to you and I talked to this official on several different occasions. And even after the mullahs report, I went back to this person. I said, okay, now what do you think? And this person said, I still can't sort this out for new Jim. I can't make hesitate of this very cozy relationship and we, you can trace this all the way back to the campaign, one of the chapters in my book is Russia. If you're listening, you know, people I like to point this out. I mean, I asked the question that, you know, prompted Trump to say that I asked him, why won't you tell Putin to stay out of our elections? This was after the hack at the DNC was reported. For the first time. And that was when he launched into that whole Russia. If you're listening, if you find Hillary Clinton's emails, you'll be rewarded mightily by the press, now at the time the campaign said, oh, he was just joking. He didn't mean that and some of us okay maybe he was joking. Remember what he said to George Stephanopoulos, just the other day? Well, if a foreign government came to be with information, I take a look at it, and maybe I take it hidden sound like he was joking. Then we are here we are three years later, almost three years after he said, Russia. If you're listening, he's still talking about that. I think that should give the voters pause. And I think it does not take you out of the out of the lane of being a straight news reporter to say that I it does raise questions. And that's why we asked the question all the time. What do you make of this deal? The Steele dossier. You know, it's, it's one of those things where some of it has turned out to be true. Some of it has turned out not to be true. But the day that Donald Trump got so mad at us at that press conference CNN deny even report, the details of the dossier. We held back we feed buzz faint. Yeah. There were some on substantiated things, and that's still dossier, and our talking. Where are, you know, where we're going to say this? But what's funny really is what or gating, right? Air. Air. Yeah. Let's hope not. Yeah. There's some things I don't want to. Yes. Exactly. But you'll recall at the Helsinki summit with bladder Putin, Vladimir Putin address this issue. And as I write in the book, and as I point out, he didn't really deny that they had. Incriminating or uncompromising position, whatever you wanna call it evidence and our compromising position, I guess, the case, maybe, but, you know, and Putin said, basically said that they have been in the practice of collecting this kind of information on business. People go to Russia. So if you go to Russia, you know, and you stay at the Ritz Carlton, please be on your best behavior because. Yes. Do you think the president has since abuse problem substance abuse? I where do you get that from? If I may ask. Well, first Janetta is brother clearly own. Yeah. And then you can look at the behaviors. Yeah. I don't think he does. He doesn't drink right now. He doesn't drink and. Maybe if this, Kentucky Fried Chicken is the substance, there's a lot of DIKO he's got a button for diet coke. You know, I don't know the answer to that, quite honestly, and I couldn't venture gas. I do know. And I will say this to their credit, they are trying to focus on this opioid crisis in the country and when he has spoken about the opioid crisis. He's talked about is his brother and you know how he went through substance abuse issues, and so to be honest with you. I I've been covering them for three years. I don't have any information about that. It would be irresponsible, for me to, to take. I mean guess give him some credit. It's one of the few things speaks, very eloquently about his, his brother and his, I think, alchoholic believe that's right. That's right. Yeah. And he sees talked about that for a long time. There was someone this young lady here. I think he's too much. We talk it out with Trump. I'm taking real. News and calling fake news in my survey Shen and personal experience the this year situation where we have a lot of. Fake news that has real aspects, but it's not actually being reported on Acura correctly. Particularly online, and with media where it's really just being sort of paid for stories that are not being investigated by all parties. What is sort of your opinion on where we've gone with online news coverage, you're talking about like the fake news stories of show on Facebook. Russian points showing up on real sites. Entertainment news or Washington Post, but they're only being covered sort of one statement of celebrities perspective, but has not actually been investigated or any other parties. Looked into the facts news, not opinion news based on facts, but they're not actually reporting all of the facts of the situation, they're more like I would say, like a media campaign, that's being reported as news that actually is has factual aspects, but isn't actually being reported that. Well, you know, there's a lot of good reporters in Washington DC as I've known a bunch of the folks of the post and the times, and the various networks for several years. Now we try our darnedest not to fall for that kind of stuff. And, you know, my sense of it is, is that we're doing our best every day to have multiple sources and not just take it from one individual. So you don't get one-sided view. But as for the issue of actual fake news, which sounds like an oxymoron. I mean just to discuss that for a moment. Yeah, I mean one of the things that. Is really concerning to me is have you guys heard about these things called deep fakes? This is the next generation in, in actual flight is actually, so it's sort of, like what happened to me with that doctor video, and the and the press pass incident where we've now gone from okay, you got fake news stories like pizza gate and Cunanan and things like that, which is just garbage Oguz fake stuff and Russian Russian Botts are planning, these stories on Facebook pages and things like that, and it caused a lot of discord in two thousand sixteen. A lot of people were believing these stories that have websites where if you looked at the full website like dot something, you know, x y z, and that's usually good telltale sign of, of fake news story that's been planted. Now, you have this where you have deep fakes where you have operatives with political campaigns who have the technical capability now of manipulating, video manipulating audio in such a fashion that it looks real that what you're watching. What you're hearing. Seems like the real thing sort of like the karate shop video where they sped up arm movement to make it look like I hit that intern. And just recently this happened to Nancy Pelosi, you'll remember when they slow down the audio Nancy Pelosi makes you made it sound like drunk or speech, or whatever, getting back with this gentleman, saying talking about slurred speech, and so on just put out there and it's just put out there and on, on Facebook. The Nancy Pelosi video registered millions of us. And so now you have a situation where, you know, political operatives the Trump campaign, they're not gonna do it inside the Trump campaign, there may be operatives outside the company campaign, so they can have plausible deniability where, you know, some of the stuff may be put out there just to pull the wool over people's eyes. And you know, four governments made try to engage in this kind of thing too. So discord, our elections, and you think the 2016 campaign was tougher reporters, it's going to be even more tile. The news organizations going into twenty twenty because we're going to be very cognizant of the fact that they're dark forces out there trying to manipulate the video, and the audio that you're taking in to try to sway votes and the upcoming election. It's a very serious debate and acceleration of this, this election. I think it's I think it's going to happen. I think we're gonna have a very big problem with this. And you know it's going to put every news organization on guard. CNN has done some great stories on this go to our website and you search or if you go on Google and search deep fake CNN, and that's not a slam on us. It's I think a way to find some really good stories that we've done recently on this, and you'll see some video examples of video that's been manipulated. So you can see sort of before, and after an explanation as to what's going on. It's one of those things I've been telling folks wherever I go guys, we have to be careful about this kind of information, because it's going to be injected into our news cycle, like virus to how, how does the average person who's now. Like doesn't come to an event like this. They're not on social media every day, you know, they're at work, most of the day because, you know, they're trying to make ends me trying to feed their kids that type of thing. I feel like they're so vulnerable to this type of thing really. We fight that as both from a media point of view like reporting even from what I'm doing. What do you have an opinion on that advice, my adviser most worried about that? That's for votes will be coming from or those types of people. Yeah. By my advice is to, you know, we gotta keep talking to one another, and all of these folks in this audience tonight, may be of sympathetic point of view, to, to the press to CNN appreciate that. I'm so happy. That that's the case. But you may have friends you may have relatives who you can't really have a conversation with over thanksgiving dinner anymore because it's so difficult to talk about this political climate mice. And I know this is difficult to hear and you don't wanna hear it, and you're like, I'm not gonna listen to this guy. Please don't give up on talking to relatives and those friends because, you know, moving forward into this next campaign as much as drives you nuts to talk to your, and now, you're Ralph about politics. I think that we can't give up on talking to one another about what's happening to this country. And my sense of it is this goes back to some of the themes, in my book is, we don't wanna remember when you and I were going, Larry, and we would talk about, you know, our grandparents, and our parents would talk about how they don't wanna hand off to the next generation a country that is worse off. They want to be better. They want to hand off to the next generation a better country than the one. They got does anybody ever say that anymore? Right. Nobody really says that anymore. So how can we in our right minds hand off to the next generation a country where it's okay to refer to the press as the enemy of the people or referred to immigrants is rapists, and criminals, and that sort of thing, what are we doing to this country? And that's one of the reasons why I wrote this book is sort of shoot warning flare into the sky. Bye guys, we can't keep going on like this. And so as much as we want to give up on talking to relatives talking to our friends that we disagree with my attitude is that we've got to keep trying because, you know, this argument is too big. It's too important to give up on. I think that's a great way to to wrap that up. I thank. Guys. Thank you so much. Three them. Black. Thank you. Great talk.