JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family

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The park has network is rereleasing forty. Five classic episodes from their critically acclaimed series. Remarkable lives tragic deaths as part of a new limited series. Famous fates. Famous face will tell amazing. Stories of some of history's most influential lives and shocking deaths from Maryland. Row and Harry Houdini to Vincent Van Gogh L. Capone. These episodes are all free and only available on spotify go to spotify dot com slash famous fates and follow. Now Jon Benet Ramsey. She was trained the Little Miss Colorado victim the Jon Benet Ramsey unknown intruder Robin Ramsay still not interview the parent blue from that. I The more responsible in two thousand and six former schoolteacher John. Mark Karr confessed blue to the nineteen ninety-six strangulation of Jon. Banana and graphic sexual detail on August seventeenth two thousand and six Thailand authorities arrested John Mark Car a forty two two year old American teacher. He'd been living in Thailand on the Lam after facing child pornography charges in the US car had been e mailing mailing a Colorado professor and was making incriminating statements about his involvement in Jonbenet's death. The Boulder District Attorney's office wanted to charge him with murder. He was extradited back to the United States and brought to Boulder Colorado to be arraigned for her murder. This this from August twentieth two thousand and six from CNN dot com a video titled in Cars Own Words. A reporter ask I am with the Associated Press. Can you give us a brief statement car. Replies I I love Jon Benet and she died accidentally reporter reporter ask are you an innocent man. Car Says No what happened car replies. Her death was an accident so you were in the basement. Mint car says yes the reporter asked. Can you tell us about your connection to the Ramsey family. Car Says No. He cannot comment on that. How did you you or how did you get into the basement again? Car Says No comment on that reporter and how how do you feel now. How have you? I've been treated car. Says I've been treated okay. Asked how long had you known Jon Benet and again he says. I have no comment on that. Here's some other statements made by car car. Says I was with Jon Benet when she died now. This is not technically a confession but but more of an admission he did not say I killed Jon Benet just I was with Jon Benet when she died another one of cars interesting statements mints and this of course is in regards to Jon Benet. He says it's very important for me that everyone knows that I love her very much that her death was unintentional intentional that it was an accident then the September four two thousand six issue of people magazine claims they have have an exclusive jailhouse interview with John. Mark car turns out. This was not the case. In Fact People magazine interviewed the Thailand authorities authorities. Who told them what car said they say? That car said the Ramseys feel their daughter was brutally murdered and she wasn't. It looks like that but she wasn't. I want them to hear the truth. I need closure and her family needs closure. All of us have gone through enough pain then. The Boulder District Attorney announced that they were dropping the charges against John Maher car and the Jon Benet Ramsey murder. They say it turns out. DNA on the body at the scene did not match that of course DNA. Secondly a great defense is always always a good alibi. It has been reported that the police never interviewed cars family prior to his arrest and extradition to the United States. Most people know where they were during the Christmas season cars family has always said and always maintain their statements. That car was with with them when Jon Benet was killed but car says the DNA might not match. But you can't trust the test. Yeah that's possible and we can into the DNA later not matching but it seems like he's just seeking out attention and that he's a line ship princess. Well he's got a face for camera a face for radio yes he had no. I'm joking I mean he's he's not. He's struggling fogli right. He's less pleasant to look at any is to listen to on July ninth. I want to get into this real quick here. Because it's going to translate a into further discussion. That get into on July ninth two thousand eight. Mary lacy the Boulder District Attorney announce it. Recently he developed touch DNA. Technology had cleared all members of jonbenet. Ramsey's family of her slaying. DNA from an unknown male hale was found on two articles of clothing. Jon benet person many have argued and I believe very rightfully so why this DNA evidence clears the family if it in fact should even clear the family at all being John Patsy and Burke this DNA evidence only proves two things that An unknown male was possibly present at the crime scene. We do not know where the DNA came from and that the DNA does does not belong to the Ramsey family as statement analysis dot Com. Put it this. Evidence does not exonerate the RAMSEYS. It does not prove they you were not present or were not involved or do not know who killed Jon Benet regardless of all of that the DNA found on Jon Benet they did not match cars DNA and the murder charges were in fact dropped he was sent to California to face child pornography charges on stay on this DNA for just a little bit longer because one of the reasons why they believe that this DNA shouldn't be tested against anybody that comes forward or any suspect is that they don't know if it's a mixture of DNA it they go well. It's a single male. That's that's what they believe. It is but even in the test results it says it could be two to three males like a combination not meaning that there's even two or three people involved in her murder just that this. DNA is a combination of could be combination of multiple will people. Therefore you'll never get a match when you're comparing multiple people's DNA to one person right and I mean it's interesting that that we have the DNA A and it was found on two articles of clothing on her that were on her person as she lay there and the wine cellar which is of interest. I don't don't think it should be ignored. I think and I'm going off of expert opinion as well and just really agreeing with them. Where several Oh? Experts have stated that they don't find this type of DNA evidence to be of any value when it comes to eliminating a suspect or or or trying to convict a suspect right that it's simply for now until we can prove otherwise it's simply for now. DNA that we can't identify by the is believed to come from a man doesn't seem to match any of the ramseys but we don't know how it got there or how long it was was there and it's hard for me to believe that was such a vicious attack there would be no. DNA laughed at the scene. At all. But again I think everybody involved in this case or anybody that has researched this case can start off with the idea that the crime scene is heavily contaminated terminated and. I actually don't WanNA fault. I don't WanNA fought law enforcement too much for that because I do believe they went into this situation going. It's it's a kidnapping and yes. They shoulda done his stop everything and go. Let's make sure that this is actually kidnapping and there's no child in this house but but they miss that step and that caused a blunder of other things to go wrong because of the date happened on. I think it's it's reasonable to see why they miss that step. I I somewhat agree with you. I but I disagree in a sense that I don't think that anybody in the public it should feel any less safe on December twenty six than they would any other time of year any other date. I agree it's on the calendar and you're right in a way that because it's been by Boulder Colorado's own detectives and police that state. This couldn't have happened on the worst day. This is the day that it's tough for us to get a full staff to get the most people working it's just it's a bad day scheduling wise no right. It's a great day to commit a murder by but what I mean by that is that maybe these officers would miss a step one because it's right after holiday but but to because they just spent time with their friends and family and so when you hear a we have a kidnapping it like. I said it could just be as simple as war. We're going to believe the parents right away when maybe they want. If it was three weeks later yeah I also I think that my wishes truly are the Boulder Police Department that they would have treated as a kidnapping as soon as they were notified of kidnapping and and that does not appear to have taken place to me right. Let's talk about Linda Hoffman. Pugh she worked for the Ramsey. She was their housekeeper. This is one thing that separates her from many of the other people that we've already discussed. She had a key to the home. She had a key to the Ramsey's house her. Her husband Mervyn worked with Linda and for the Ramseys on a few occasions on the evening of twelve twenty seven nineteen ninety-six. This is is the day after all of the the mess that we just kind of touched. Upon at the Ramsey home in the investigation police showed up at the pews home home and they wanted her to write the number one hundred eighteen thousand dollars on a piece of paper and reportedly took her fingerprints in several strands of her hair at that time as well. Linda confirmed the polices suspicions of job. Possibly having a bed wedding problem problem. There are several publications. That say Linda Accuses Patsy Ramsey of killing Jon Benet and it appears that she he did. I believe this may just have been in retaliation especially after learning that the ramseys put Linda and her husband on a list of people they would consider to be suspects and then some extended family pointed to them as well. The extended Ramsey family member told police Linda. Linda had asked Patsy for alone many publications out there stated that the ramseys refused to help her out and Linda's family. I was struggling and desperately needed the money. This sounds very ominous and certainly presents a cloud of suspicion. But let's clear a bunch of things up here. Linda did in fact ask Patsy for loan. The loan amount was for two thousand dollars and Patsy and John they. They agreed to help her out. They gave her the money and the agreement was that they would take two hundred dollars out of each of her paychecks until the loan was was paid back. Now that makes sense also. It wasn't like Linda was super desperate for money. Yes her and her husband struggled at times but she had a good job working for the ramseys and Mervyn was even able to pick up some work because of her job as well. The loan was for car repairs and dental work. Mark these both being emergency situations that can be expensive that spring up without notice. We have all experienced this right. Let's keep in mine too even more so than the ramseys. The police were considering everyone with a key to the home to be a suspect at that time in the investigation to see some of the report set speculate that there was as many as twenty keys. Not Not accounted for. I've seen multiple numbers reported over the years. One thing that is pointed out by the detectives that were working. The case was the first started off investigating the murder order soon as they knew it was a murder they wanted to know who had keys and how many were out there. And that number that was provided to them by the RAMSEYS was much much different than what their investigation would lead them to to find. Now Linda was someone who had a key to the home as we stated and regardless of what some of these publications say that are out there Linda when I questioned by police never suggested that Patsy or John were are guilty of anything other than loving their children she even stated that she worried about the beautiful little girl. Meaning Jon Benet who was allowed to ride her a bike unsupervised and said someone must have seen her and attempted to take the little girl this statement obviously pointing toward an unknown intruder rather than the Ramseys Mervyn however told police that the few times he was in the home he found the home to be very difficult to navigate. Saying if you just turned around you'd get lost this statement pointing toward an insider if it wasn't intruder. Of course Hoffman. PUGH does not even fit the profile. The police were working with which was white male former convict twenty five to thirty years. Old Hoffman Pugh was fifty seven at the time I'm and her husband was about the same age years later. She did testify in front of a grand jury for a total of eight hours including a statement against Patsy Azzi that read quote. I think she had multiple personalities should be in a good mood and then should be cranky. She got into arguments with Jon. Benet the Linda Hoffman. PUGH theory as it goes says the housekeeper led a trusting job down into the basement that night and attempt to who trick her employers into leaving money for her ransom. It is possible that she could have seen John. Ramsey's pay stub for one hundred. Eighteen thousand thousand dollars as a bonus familiar with both the home and the family. Schedule Hoffman. Pugh makes a convenient suspect and without a solid alibi. She says she was asleep in bed while her husband allegedly slept on the couch. She has however never been formally accused of this crime. I'm in there's really no evidence pointing to her just speculation by mainly a lot of coming from patsies mother and we've spent the last asked episode and portion of this episode discussing some of the people we believe should be in the conversation of suspects. There there nobody in there that we are specifically Lee. Sang should be a suspect. Just when you WANNA look at people that you might want to look into with the investigation these would be people that the captain and I would take a look at. There are a few people that we haven't discussed yet. And that would be some true insiders. In this case. The three Ramsey family members numbers that were inside the home. Obviously we cannot discuss every person that's ever been thought to be a suspect by whomever out there down. I mean we we thought about after the second episode discon- screw it was two hundred episodes on this case but then we decided against that. Well just the suspects alone would be extremely exhausting one to report in to to listen to as well because the Ramseys John and patsy supply boulder police with a list of suspects. The list they gave to police now. It grew as the investigation went on right but the latest report that I heard was that that number was at one hundred and sixty eight the ramseys gave the police department one hundred and sixty eight people to look at and obviously their names were not included on this list. So right but if your child was murdered and you weren't involved at some point you would start naming everybody you knew just to have them look at anybody. Because they're not at at this point you don't know who they've looked at what leads the have Where they're going? How close they are so? At some point year you start becoming desperate `esprit I get that and that's that just like everything else in this case is where you can take one bit of information and you could use it to argue four. Aw or against the RAMSEYS. Yeah so where every one of us would expect innocent people to supply a very lengthy list in a desperation to find justice for their daughter. The flip side of that is the suspicion of going. Well they they have something to hide. So they're providing police with this very extensive list giving them all these errands chores to do to really steer the direction direction of the investigation away from themselves to further compound that a bit. We do have statements by Patsy Ramsey who who says at some point in the investigation. She was suspicious of Saying that she believed the killer could have been Colorado University student. Well that adds several thousands more people to the list of suspects so it's really one of those tricky things. The other thing that I found interesting about this and this this is actually a real. I think this is a very possibly legit answer. We do know that the ramseys did provide a suspect list. That's not in question question. That absolutely happened. What I believe is in question is the number of people that the ramseys put on that list brave because that number has been reported all all over the shop? It's a pretty high number. I'll say that but I found this statement to be. It's really a response that John Ramsey had uh it either shows his level of intelligence or his level of innocence or possibly his level of. He thinks he might be set up being wrongfully accused of something and it was this. One of his friends contacted him. Their conversation was Ramsey Ramsey. Wanted to know. Why did you say you said some things about me? That I didn't really like right. And his his friend or acquaintance Dayton's I don't know that the strength of their relationship and the statements themselves they they weren't even really a big deal in my opinion but the friend says to John. Well I only said that stuff because or I only said that you should be a suspect because police came to me and told me that you told them that I should be suspect. Right and John Ramsey's response to that was look. I didn't say you should be a suspect. They're just telling you and telling everybody nobody else out there in our our circle of friends and Co workers that we have said everybody else's a suspect they're trying trying to stir. The Pot is what John Ramsey's basically saying they're trying to stir the pot so that you will give them stuff about us you will give them dirt on us so it's it's really one of those really difficult things to kind of sift through. Who is right? Who is wrong and what this particular thing could mean? I in the beginning of this investigation thought that that number one hundred sixty eight people named as suspects by the Ramsey was a crazy number and it pointed to something that they might be trying to hide right as I go through it. I questioned that action less. And less and less one thing we do need to talk about two which added suspicion in the public's eye to the RAMSEYS and I believe at it suspicion in the eyes of law enforcement As well working the case is what has always been referred to as the RAMSEYS hiding behind a wall of lawyers and some people well even gone as far to call this wall of Lawyers Team Ramsey. The one of the attorneys hired by the RAMSEYS was was. This is from an old case. And it's from a representation to a person named Lee Lindsay. Her husband was shot to death inside their home l. e. Lindsey was found innocent. John Hired that same defense attorney to represent him. It's an interesting strategy again. It's just another one of those things that you could argue. Either side this points to him having something to hide this points to him just wanting good representation tation so he doesn't get wrongfully accused. John and Patsy had different attorneys and Burke had his own attorney as well now how we should point out there all paid for by John Ramsey. But they're all receiving separate representation. Some people point to that as being very strange something very weird I really to me captain my opinion on that I could go either way on it I I I would. I would really want somebody with a strong opinion on it to to offer up their opinion to me as to why I should feel one way or the other about it. I don't really think thirty points to anything. I think again initially appointed to me that well. If let's pretend I'm the husband and and there's it made me Patsy when you're not involved in this okay. If I'm the husband in a situation where my my child has been killed in. The police are now looking looking at me and my wife as potential suspects. which you know? They're going to what if I'm in a situation where I know I'm innocent assent but I don't fully know if my spouse is innocent right well then it would make very much sense if I hired an attorney for me and if if I had if I were a man of money I would probably hire one for her as well but we would be represented by two different people because my interest I in her interest in this investigation are not the same and therefore we need different representation. That'd be awesome if your man of money because we could turn on the heat and and the garage now the flip side of that is what. If I know that I'm innocent and I know my wife to be innocent as well. I know that a very very common police tactic and detective tactic would be for them to separate us in question us at the same time in separate areas in separate locations locations thus making it impossible for the attorney representing both of us to physically represent both of us during that situation. Elation right you see how this pendulum swings back and forth. It's it's aggravating. It's interesting it's truly a fascinating case case but with a lot with a lot of unanswered questions right but I view it from the standpoint of what John Ramsey says the the day of the crime he talks to police officers the day of the crime they have burke talk to investigator without anybody present they also send burke to their friends house where he could say God knows what if if he was responsible for this or if he knew what happened but John Ramsey says is that they're willing to cooperate they had some suspicion from their friends. Saying you probably get a lawyer to help you through all this but when when the police would not give back her body so they can have the burial. That's when John said that was the long drawn in the sand and you don't WanNa to give our dead child back so we can bury her and so you have a sit down sit down conversation with both him and Patsy and I think at that point he realized This was kind of war and I think he was. I don't even think it was whether it was right or wrong long. I think it was just like I think he felt that it was very disrespectful. And from then on I'm not gonNA play by your rules. The holiday shopping season here and this year. Your gift can inspire fire. Next year's good habits with quip quip is something that sure to put a smile on. Everyone's face because it's dental care. People actually want to use every day. Eh Quips. Electric toothbrush refillable floss in. toothpastes are all intentionally designed to make good habits simple. 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Dr Cyril Wecht and Steve Thomas to retired F. B. I.. Agents that is the flip side of the coin of John. Douglas Bliss I guess and we have Cyril Wecht who is an expert in forensics as well as Steve Thomas who would be the flip side of the coin. Four four Lou Smit loose-knit was brought in to work this investigation for the prosecutors for the team of prosecutors Steve Steve. Thomas was a member of the Boulder Police Department and was a detective at the time. And he was one of the lead investigators on the Ramsey investigation. Gatien the strange thing being here is that these two investigators worked on the same team at the same time of the same investigation and had had to completely different opinions on what happened. What took place who is responsible for the murder and both of them believe? I believe so strongly in their theory that the evidence that day could see backed up what they suspected so much so that both of them eventually actually resigned from working the case at all. And that's pretty strong commitment to your theory. Yeah one hundred percent. We have stated that some people were eliminated whatever words you want to use in regards to very things that are very specific like handwriting possibly DNA EH alibis alibis. The only true people that in my that I'm willing to go along with an agree with that have been officially cleared in this case were cleared very early on in the investigation and they're only four of them and that would would be John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey John's two older children right as well as fleet and Priscilla White. Those four have been officially cleared and I agree with all four of those statements. This being basically that it was proven to be physically impossible for any of these four people to be involved because they have an ironclad alibi. The two older children were not even in the state of of Colorado. They would need to either own a private jet or a time machine to teleport. Yeah have possibly been able to commit this crime and it appears the same way with fleet and Priscilla white as well based off of they had a bunch of guest at their home overnight and there's multiple people stating that until the wee hours of the morning. They're both accounted for. It's not like one of these statements. Like oh we went to bed at eight o'clock at night and get up and do anything till the next morning they were up up hanging out with these people and until until the wee hours of the more they were pulling what I call it. crispy colonel so this leaves us with three of the more popular suspects in this case and you know I remember when I was a child in this case was in the news that there were people screaming screaming at the top of their lungs. The parents did at the parents did it. And then years later a popular theory came out that pay the brother. Did it either way for somebody in the home to have killed. Jon Benet without question there has to be a cover up and then you have to go to the extent of how many people people do you believe. Were to be involved in that cover up and why the need for the cover up in the first place. John Ramsey was a popular suspect early. Early on in this would be based off of the salacious photos. That came out of this young six year old blonde in these beauty pageants wearing clothing and outfits that people didn't think were appropriate and you carry that out a little further people wondered well. Could she have been sexually abused. was there abuse going on in inside the home and could John Ramsey be guilty of such abuse. The other thought here is we have have patsy Ramsey. The patsy Ramsey theory to me is is. I think I was GONNA say interesting but I don't don't think that's the right word I think it's complicated is is the better word and I say that because in regards to patsy having killed Jon Benet and and then covered it up it seems like there could be many motivating factors for patsy right. Where would John? It seems pretty cut cut and dried that. It's just I. The he must have been abusing her sexually and it led to this and then it was covered up now. One seems like we have evidence accordance at points against the idea that she was abused long-term and the the where the place. Where this theory then splits is you could go? Okay okay. Well did. Patsy helped him cover covered up or was she aware of other things going on or not right with the patsy theory. It's it's it's a number of things it could be that Jon Benet the bed and there was an attack and impulsive attack. That took place and then it was covered up later or she was in some weird way jealous that her daughter is being molested by her husband and and flew into some kind of rage. or It's possible that she was molesting her daughter herself she was molesting the daughter. One interesting theory too is is that John's molesting the daughter in in some type of was meant to be a heroic act to come in and attack this man attack her husband. Who's violating her daughter? The in some freak accident. She accidentally struck Jon Benet in the head instead instead and then they worked together to cover it up. The theories are as bizarre as you can imagine and then there's others that make some sense now mind you you need the evidence to back them up yes and this is where my even get more complex but I I believe based on the autopsy that it shows that Jon Benet was not being molested for years so so to me that rules out patsy molesting Jon Benet or John Molesting Jon Benet I also would find it very strange Ought to have a situation where we have molest station of a child of your own child and a house that there is no pornography goofy at all found or any claims at all by any friends they had a lot of close friends. No claims whatsoever a about child abuse so to me I you can take that off the table. I certainly don't lean that way that that was the situation that that was what was going on long term and backed that up by saying look this at this. John was not a first time father. Okay he other children that have nothing but good things to say about him. Usually with an offender that would would re-offend on the same victim over and over again. It's not uncommon that they just victimized one child right but it's more common did they victimize more than one of the children so I don't lean that way and it also appears that out of the. This was a young girl it was very well cared for in the sense that she had twenty seven. Doctors visits in the course of three years. Now some people call that into suspicion. I'm fine with that. It's it's suspicious to me too but what's not suspicious is a lot of times when there is some form of physical abuse or sexual abuse. You're not running to the doctor for every little thing that comes up because sometimes the doctor can detect these things or can question marks on a child this things with with Jon Benet and in her body and and the examines the examinations of her body and these doctor visits i. I don't think that we can one hundred percent rule out the possibility of some type of sexual abuse. It just doesn't seem like like anybody people that have first hand knowledge of all these situations and of Jon Benet. It doesn't seem that anybody leans that direction right. The these are things that could be explained away by sexual abuse but also could be explained away. A million other ways in have been irritations due to two wedding the bed. wetting yourself irritations to bubble bath any number of different things going on here. So yeah. I'm with you captain. Can I don't see a situation where we have long term sexual abuse. Now that doesn't mean that sexual abuse cannot be the motivating factor for what happened here. It very well could be that. This was the very first time that this ever took place and it went. It ended in murder right. I think if you I believe that then you have to believe the evidence of the autopsy and that means that there would have been something that happened on the twenty third so again like you said it's new developing Sexual molestation but by apparent I just I just don't see you there. I think there's such a lack of evidence of that I think makes maybe a little more sense with the idea of that. This bed-wetting became an issue. And the person that's dealing with it constantly is patsy and so something happened there but again it. It's strange to me. It's just it's this is so complicated because you have to start picking what happened. I and I don't believe a hit or the fracture of the skull all happened. I so if that did happen I and somebody could prove to me that happened. I then I'd go. Well Yeah Patsy got a a little upset in and pushed her. She hit her head or she accidentally hit hit. Jon Benet on top of the head was something and then use this this gratin to cover it up but I just don't see that to be the case in regards can you. Can you clear up what you mean gene by something occurring on the twenty third while because the 'cause they examined her claims that the day that she was murdered murdered. There's evidence that there's digital molest station and that but there's also evidence that it would happen. And and when we use the word chronic he was stating that it probably happened on the twenty second or the twenty third so there was evidence of some kind of molestation on the day she was murdered and then on the twenty second and the twenty third so meaning if it was somebody somebody on the inside it could have been the second time that such an act took place. Yeah I'm just. I'm taking that off the table because to me it doesn't there's no no evidence that points and I just. There's no evidence that points that John Ramsey was doing that. There's no evidence that points that Patsy Patsy Ramsey was doing that. No I agree with you too. I'm not willing to take it off the table because it sounds like the medical examiner says that something took place place right and look. She's in the company of her family more than anybody else. She's a six year old child so I won't take off off the table when they're still they're still reason to leave it on the table. I think the the difficulty with this case as you are the road you were starting to go down. There is one. It's IT'S A. It's a general misconception. In this case that the belief that she was struck on the head and then strangled with this Gujarat and the whole strangulation of the garage was an the act to cover up an accidental hit to the head of strike to the head. Which of course does anybody could make a case for that to have been patsy Azzi Burke? John What have you the problem being is it seems that all the experts seem to agree. Then the strangulation came first in the strike on the head occurred either at the same time or shortly after so what that says to me. Is that the use of this Iraq of this strangulation of whatever was happening before Jon Albany was struck on the head. You it can't be a cover up in the sense that the garage was not used as a cover. The strangulation was not used as a cover. Ever up this occurred before the strike on the head right and there's multiple things to point us to this one. She has defensive offensive wounds. meaning that Jon Benet when she was being strangled with this garage she tried to pull off her neck and there's indents dance all over her neck fingernail and dents to show that she was conscious when she's being choked and she tried to stop it if she was hit on the head that blow to the head that caused that massive fracture would a- left her probably brain dead. She would had severe brain swelling. She would had severe brain bleed so she wouldn't be able to be conscious to stop this attack now. Is it possible that she was strangled for awhile. Hit hit on the head and then strangled again. That's very possible but this idea that choose hit on the head I is just it makes zero sense and I always believed the CBS reports. When I watched the first? CBS documentary. I went there. You go that that seems like it makes a Lotta sense and you have these paid and Vesa gators and these forensic experts sit in on this board Goin'. Yeah this probably what happened or something to that. This effect act. You have to believe again. The idea that Jon benet comes up and take some pineapple away from her brother and then he turns around and hits her on the head with some kind of object. Maybe the flashlight that's what they said in the CBS report. I think you said you don't think nine year old would be strong enough to do that. Blow I lean towards your expertise on that. But it's also you can't see the fracture. You can see the fracture after the autopsy debts. Because to put it bluntly they removed the skin right. You can't there will be no Lhasa ration- There was no open. Head wound right. And she's not bleeding leading all over the place. The Medical Examiner the pathologist Dr Meyers. He was unaware of the blow to the head until till. Oh well into the examination of the body right going off of site scene of what he sees at the at the crime scene and what he sees on the the body of the victim. He's immediately going all. This was strangulation. Pretty obvious the rope still around her neck. Sorry right but it wasn't wasn't until further examination. Did he discover this strike to the head. And I'm look there have been experts out there again and I'm no expert but your expert in the garage. There have been experts out there that said yes. Nine year old could do could carry out this type of violent strike to the head of a small child and caused this amount of damage. I'm sorry man I've seen the the the pictures and unfortunately had to stare at them long enough. I refused to believe that I simply it look look at the regular. Let's go down this road for a second breads less to say he was able to do that. Pullout and less to say that you can say patsy saul him hit her or didn't see Burke hitter at some point. She comes a pawn her lifeless body. But guess what she still breathing. She is still breathing. So so maybe some time passes but you're going to tell me this mother that loves her daughter is just going to call the ambulance because guess what we have evidence of what happens. When Burke hits his sister in the in the face with a golf club he gets in trouble double they take her to the emergency room? You think she comes upon her lifeless child's body. Guess what the child is breathing breathing. So you you want to tell me that she's not GonNa just call nine one one and say hey we we need help. We need ambulance. It's because she would have no clue. He is not a medical examiner. She's not a doctor she's not a nurse. She has no clue. I would assume that most people most adults came across a six-year-old that was unconscious and there was no. Oh evidence of her wear shoes hit that they wanted to call nine one one to try to save their daughter's life so so people want you to think that she just automatically assume that she was dead decided to make garage and start a choking her violently. Not like haphazardly violently and chokers so much that that rope moves places but then somehow during all this John neagh comes to and then defends the choking gene and wants. Her child comes to she goes all. Well it's too late for you or just covering this up for Burke we gotTa Save Burke and then she keen continues to choke and then we've got a stage some molestation but again the evidence points that not only did it happened that day but it probably happened a couple of days before so did you stage that too and then we gotta start staging all these other things now. We got it right this ransom note. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. were an regardless if it makes sense or not. The science doesn't back any of that up with the science backs up is that she was strangled and then struck in the head in that exact order brain and what what backs that up is. The the what the science shows is a slowing of the blood moving to the brain at that time right. That's one piece of evidence. meaning that she was either in the act of dying when she was struck on the head or ver- you know she's in the act of dying very close to death right. Something is causing blood to be slowed or stop going to the brain and then she struck in the head. What stopped that was the strangulation that was going on with the garage them at the time that she was struck on the head? So you're not using the garage to cover up being struck in the head. You're not using sexual. Oh abuse to cover up the strike to the head. What you have here is a situation where unfortunately we have sexual assault and a very vicious sexual act of cutting off the air to the two two six year olds was six year old and then during the commission of doing all that there is a strike to the head whether the offenders struck her on the head because he believed she was dead and wanted to make sure her or wanted to strike on the head to cover up and confuse what was going on at the scene? We can't say we can't say that but we can say based off of the science. Is that the act of strangulation was taking place before the strike to the head occurred so just to try to work somebody off of our list. If you're going to believe that burke possibly did this then you have to reconcile the fact that she was being choked before for being struck on the head you have to take a step further and say well he was. He built this fancy garage and he was choking her and then he's Snyder and look it makes for a good story but I don't see the evidence to suggest that that's what in fact occurred what I do see. Evidence of is a the the the problem with the people in the house is we have John who could be guilty. We have patsy. Who could be guilty and then we could have all three that were somehow in on it together? One thing that I believe you can absolutely cross off your list and take off the table is that burke did all of this by himself right. Take that one off off. Because he's nine years old. He didn't write that letter. He didn't write that ransom letter. He didn't construct that Gherat. I don't know why a nine year old would be into the type of sexual assault that I believe to be taking place in that basement or how they would even know about that at. Aw and then you would have to convince me that. He strong enough to inflict that severe severe blow to the head and Hill says. Write the note via himself right so and yeah and he has to tie the sophisticated knots. I don't see see that being a possibility and again maybe a heavy enough object. Maybe you can create the fracture. I'd be more interested to see if a nine year old could inflict the damage around the neck with a great. Because you'd have to be pulling pretty pretty hard so I just don't see it. Here's my thing though is I've been thinking about this a lot. Why did I watch the CBS report? And and why did I believe that. And some of it is because they commit certain pieces of evidence which come on shame on you right. You have some Agenda you have some point trying to make so you just leave out all the pieces of evidence so therefore your point makes the most sense but I started thinking what will why does you know looking cannot the evidence that we've done for the last few months. Why did America why it seems? Like almost all of America's fold by this but I think it's because it's easier. It's easier to think that this was an accident it's easier to think think six-year-olds accidentally hit on the head by her brother. The parents did not know what to do. They were scared that grant lose their son and and then they did these horrible things but on some level on a very small percentage we all can just justify their actions. It's because they didn't want to lose their son because maybe there was something wrong with their son. We've only seen one interview you with them. Which is very odd interview as he has grown up? I think that those are nervous reactions when he talks to Dr Phil Bill. But I think when you see him as a child. There's some strangeness in those interviews to but look it's a nine year old kid did being interrogated or being questioned after. His little sister was murdered. But I think it's easier to come to that conclusion. It's easier to think that then to think somebody took the time to make a device to put around a six year olds neck and to pull it so tight that her brain was losing blood and oxygen and was either molesting her or molesting themselves why they choke the life founded this little girl and they either got so excited how they decide to smash her on the head splitting splitting her skull pretty much in half or guy of theorized that maybe after she was dead debt debt when they were trying to carry her out on some level they ended up dropping her and then they panicked and they left. But I think it's you see what I'm saying where I feel. It's almost it's harder to imagine the latter it's also very difficult cult. Imagine that the parents did this. It's almost easier then in a sense to that an intruder should be guilty of such a terrible act in such a terrible attack on a child. Yeah this is a very unpopular opinion. But I I lean toward the intruder theory as one that I feel to be more likely. I'm not willing to roll other possibilities. Ladies out why again with the with the damage done the physical damage done to the victim. What I see here ear is something that is beyond probably the capabilities of the ramseys? And I know that it. It happens all the time in America and other countries as well Brian where apparent does something horrible unspeakable acts next to their own child. I understand it I get it but at the end of the day when I can't make what I believe to be an educated aided decision because the evidence is so messy then I have to go with my gut and what my gut tells me. Is that from. The pictures is that I've seen of the damage done. I feel like this this had to be an intruder and I will take a step further by stating the garage itself the construction of the garage. The construction of those knots that too who appears to me to point toward a certain level of sophistication meaning somebody that has fashioned one of these devices before right and if the ramseys are simply trying to cover something up. They've had they've never had a reason to construct one before. Well all the items it made. The garage made the ransom letter. All everything came from inside the House Nick. Well that's not. In fact entirely true there were items inside the home that cannot be ruled out as having caused the damage that was made by the blow to the head right but we don't have any proof that there was an item edem inside the home that did in fact make that wound the blonde plus made dense strike to the head right. Plus you got a scene. That's very contaminated plus on top of that. Just look at the pictures we're talking about to me extremely messy house which I would think would make investigating crime scene way harder. So how does this all workout. If in fact it was an intruder in my mind this is how it plays out again again. I'm not willing to say this is one hundred percent. I'm not willing to now say that there are other possibilities. This is at the end of the day. I put fifty one percent of my eggs in this basket. If this is how the intruder theory goes down. This is how it works and makes sense for me that she was targeted. Somebody broke into the home with the intention of abducting this child. For the purpose of sexual assault. They may have broke into the home before or after the family came home. I don't know it seems to point to me. More likely that they may have entered the home while the Ramseys were gone. I during this time they brought with them a letter. The day copied using stuff that they found in the home using the felt pen. We know that occurred using patsies. No Pat we know. Oh that occurred in writing it why they have clubs on so we don't leave any DNA or fingerprints. The difficulty with the letter itself is we have barked in right it. According to the analyst John Reid it and then they put patsy at the low end of the spectrum for possibly riding it. I know I'm reminding myself that we said earlier. It would be responsible to eliminate any based off of handwriting analysis. The thing here though captain is what would be the purpose of ransom letter. I also stated and I believe you back me up on this that the letter itself is a farce. What I meant by that is that there was no? There was never any belief by the author of that letter or desire to actually collect any money from the family right. The letter itself was simply a giant speed speed-bump to persuade the family not to contact the police and give this sick individual more time with the victim victim. Nick that never happens why would why would they add the added risk of of putting themselves out there like that just to buy some more time. Well I can point to one situation where in fact did happen. Amy Mahalick was abducted from the Shopping Plaza Waza and allowed to call her mother at work after being in the presence of the abductor simply glee for the reason of delaying the mother being aware that there was something wrong and guess what if the ramseys would have followed. The instructions is on that ransom letter. They wouldn't have contacted the police but they did. One thing that I find weird about the note and we never discussed discuss this The other day here captain but one thing that I found extremely strange with inside the no itself was how the author author speaks and absolutes all the way up to one point and then leaves the window open for a little bit of possibility a little bit of opportunity to foil the abductors plan where the author says. If you do this she dies if you do this she dies. If if you don't cooperate with us you run the risk of her being beheaded and then we will deny you her body all these absolutes. She dies beheaded denied. The the body right but then later is states. If you try to outsmart us you stand a ninety nine percent chance of killing killing your daughter if you follow our instructions you stand one hundred percent chance of getting your daughter back again in absolute but then that ninety nine percent i. That's what's been keeping me up at night. Why would the author leave that? One percentage chance the the ramseys could foil the plan and I think that's because the author really wanted them to believe that the author was in control and if they follow their instructions not only would they get their daughter back but at the very least if they didn't contact the police they were still one percent percent chance that the ramseys could outsmart the attacker. I think what occurred really man was. The note was constructed to buy more time. I'm who knows how long this individual intended to keep riber right but he believed the note was authentic in a sense that the author wanted wanted the Ramseys to believe it but it happened before he actually yes because if he killed Jon Benet he would've never wrote the note to begin with bright. The note gets a ransom note gets the FBI involved. Which I think is another thing which not? Everybody knows that. But it's like if the family was trying to cover up a murder and you then put a ransom note into play now you have FBI involved. And I wish that be. I was involved from beginning because if they would have been. I think this case would be solved by now. Yeah if they wouldn't have located her body in the basement that quickly if that would have gone twenty four hours the FBI would have taken over this case in this investigation regardless of finding her body later. The interesting thing here though captain I think where this whole thing gets messy. It's a complicated case because there are all these things that you have have to explain and you have to explain them and they're not easily explained away because there are things that point to the letter being constructed not only in the home. I'm but Bai's maybe somebody that lived there. Nothing is easily explained away because the crime didn't go and it wasn't carried out in the manner that it was intended to had he been able to remove her from the home right alive. That's that's how my theory goes. This would've looked taken on a whole different appearance. It would have taken on a whole different investigation. Something happened where he realized or determined in the moment that he couldn't get her out of the house. I don't know what that is but whatever it is. I'm backing up. The motivating factor for this abduction. Which I believe is? What was the intention here with sexual assault was because is this individual had already taken the risk to get what they wanted and when they could not get her out of the house? They assaulted her inside. The home home struck her over the head to make sure that she was dead and then left or possibly got spooked. And I but I believe that this this person knew the house. Well they knew that by if you can get her down to the basement. You're now putting two floors between you and her and her parents now. Do you think this case is solvable. I was actually listening to somebody on the way here to the garage. That was an expert in my opinion. Very good expert. That was saying they believe. The case is still has the potential to be solved oft based off of forensic evidence personally. I don't feel very good about this case. Ever being solved in the problem with that is is. That's without that's with the exception of having a somebody come forward saying I did this. This is how I did it. And then they can pull some evidence together and go. Yeah we can back up this individual story. Because of this this and this right where I think this case lends itself to be unsolvable unsolvable at say is in a court of law if you make an arrest and somebody isn't willing to confess to the murder order. I think it's going to be very difficult to convict. Based off of public opinion. You could move this case you know some cases they do a change of venue because the either the perpetrator doesn't stand a chance or there's problems with the case. Whatever right you can move this case to Mars and it's still will a mess? It's still convoluted mess. There are people out there that feel so strongly about their opinion. And that's why that's why part of me only willing to go. Oh fifty one percent in on this intruder theory on my thoughts on the case because I understand why so. Many people are are firm firm in their beliefs and in their opinions of this case. Because just like you pointed out earlier you watch. CBS and you go. Yup I think they nailed it now. I know what to believe right. You Watch the e thing same thing but it's a different answer. It's a different response. You read Steve Thomas's book. You absolutely believe Patsy did it. You know it's really comes from whoever you get your information from An. I actually don't believe that anybody is out there. You're trying to skew this in any way that's malicious or this trying to deceive the audience right. I think that there there is is evidence that you could argue either way and if you choose to argue it all one way it makes a good case for whatever your opinion or your theory is on the case one Henry Lee said that he didn't he say that he believes that this is not just a DNA solvable case. Well I believe what his statement was that he believes that the DNA is of no value to eliminate somebody as a suspect or to convict them in a court of law. Aw One so one. I think they need to try to come to some kind of understanding in some conclusion with the DNA to figure out is it. A single male is or`mixture. I know that they were talking about doing tests back in two two thousand sixteen in two thousand seventeen I have not I could not find any new results of those. Because if we do no because what they could do as a contest that make sure with female DNA and then if they have any trace of female DNA that POPs in than there would and more likely it's a mixture and now we gotta go back to the drawing boards. But I think they need to figure that out for one but all all accounts announce state that it's male DNA. It was taken from a Right but it's not clear if it's two or three or just one. Yes that I don't know I do know that it was taken from a A Do blood sample. If you WANNA call it I don't know that's the best way to describe it but what that tells me is that they're taking this fluid and they're finding DNA in the fluid and if they're saying that it's coming from a Dole all sample than they've already been able to identify what that other where that other samples coming from right meaning. It came the most. It's obvious answer is the other. DNA comes from. Jon Benet bright and so if they're able to make that conclusion then I don't think they can rule rule out one hundred percent that it's not You know more than one. DNA but it sounds to me what they are able to conclude as what they're looking at. Ah they believe one hundred percent to be male unknown male or unidentified male DNA. I think what Lee what Henry Henry Lee and several other experts are trying to point out regarding this. DNA itself. Is that the type of DNA. It is is not. It's not indicative of anything that that may have occurred during the commission of any of these crimes regardless of Of what crimes you believe took place place this. DNA does not have to be there because of a sexual assault this DNA does not have to be there because of a murder. What they're saying is the problem with the DNA Alta mentally? Right now is that they don't know where it came from and they don't know how long it was there right. Meaning there's a chance it worked. Its way there after the fact after she was already killed after the perpetrator fled or after John and patsy started recovering up the crime by that. There's a chance that that DNA has nothing to do with the murder of this child and that is the problem and until they can figure out you might be able to clear that up if you can figure out where it came from if there would be a way for you to prove it's impossible for to end up on the body the after the fact that only ended up on her during the commission of these crimes right. But if I'm talking with John Ramsey and and John says to me a I wanNA hire you for this case. I'd say John The first thing we need to do is look at this. DNA and we need to come to some consensus with multiple experts. I'd also WanNa pull in some investigators that that believed that it was the family. I'd WanNa pull them in and to have them help with the investigation because they would be our checks and balances also think they need to figure out the stun gun theory. I don't know if they can still do it but I know at the time they were would have been able to Dig Her up and do some tests to figure out if these were trained tracks marks or possibly a stun gun or neither or right right and I think that's important. I also think this digital ma molestation. That's what I'm going to call it. That possibly happened on the twenty second or twenty third or the and then than happen the day of the murder. Now I say the day of the murder because that I believe was in the report ambler throughout this theory and I think there are some investigation. That should be done. This is not this is finger molest station. They believe finger was insider. Now you can. You can explain it away in multiple different with the wiping aggressive wiping and and different things but most people believe this is some form molestation. LS Station. I would also argue. You have children playing on the twenty third not always supervised and then the same thing happens on the twenty fifth was there. Is there a kid involved and here here are just put it out there. Is it possible a kid did. This ended wasn't meaning harm by. It was just a kid kid not knowing any better Zandt Megan any sense at all. It's certainly make some sense to me. But I think that the evidence showing that to me it shows that the digital manipulation right is what they term it occurred and probably occurred near at or near the time of for death which I'd lean that way I'm just saying is. Is this something that we can again. It's just like with the train track marks or the stun handgun marks. I think it starts narrowing things down so if we can come to a consensus of that this there was some kind of. I'm I'M GONNA call digital molestation because it's station. Is this happening at the time of her death rowing that out. I also think because there's too many coincidences when you look at Santa Bill. There's too many odd things. His daughter was kidnapped. Twenty two years before on the date. It's unsolved kidnapping technically. Yes they find Jon Benet Ramsey in her house. But there's a ransom note so to me. It's technically a kidnapping unsolved kidnapping and this guy. Like I said I. I looked as much as could into this bear that was found and you can look at the crime scene photos and see this bear on the bed. I WANNA know if it really came from that pageant. If they can prove that. But here's what we do now. Santa Bill was hired by multiple people and worked multiple locations. We have tons of evidence out there. And here's something that the public could actually look for if your child had any picture the bill is there a bear that matches this description. I think if it does. That's enough of a reason for us to go. Hey this this guy needs to be looked into further. The other thing I would want to know is in your Santa Claus outfit most Santa Clauses were where Black Act boots. I would like to see anybody that has a picture with Santa Bill. What boots are what boots is Is he wearing at the time. And is it possible that they're high tech. which would be the marks? That were found shoe shoeprints that were found and in the basement so I think those are things that people can look into now and get us closer to some answers. It was determine that there were more than one hundred burglaries in the Ramsey's neighborhood in the months before Jonbenet's murder there were thirty. Eight registered sex offenders is living within a two mile radius of the ramseys home. And if you can't get enough of the true crime garaged make sure you check us out on stitcher. You can find all of our old episodes and any confined our other show off the record. Hey crispy colonel. What's Merry Christmas? You filthy animal Merry Christmas to everyone on out there. Thank you for joining us in the garage all year long. We hope to see you back here next year. Merry Christmas Merry Christmas and happy. New Year cheers the captain. Captain Cheers to all of the true crime garage army until next year. Be Good behind. Don't let the.

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