Raising An Upstander- Podcast #501


they were moving much do do do do do do we might have thought this is danny welcome back to another episode is in parenting radio this is podcasts number five hundred in one while it is in parenting radio because you'll feel outstanding and who doesn't wanna pay outstanding and always remember motto which is the best predictor of a child's wellbeing is he parents self understanding a on today's show what we have a title of the show what do we call it were calling it raising an up stander raising an upstanding why are we calling the title of this podcast raising it upstairs we're gonna call it that because we're gonna talk about what it means divvying up stander were gonna talk about the bystander moment which is in the movie were screening on tuesdays and we're gonna do that by talking about the book missoula by jon krakauer so we're gonna try unlike discuss all three things obviously the most specific civic thing like what's up stander movements 'em it's a lot about bowling to we're gonna talk more specifically about sexual assault but these ideas end the way to raise a child who has an understanding of what it means to be an up stander it are the same dale were just gonna use missoula and this book as are like you know it's the the points were gonna make so go ahead before he gone we turn up my earphones just a little bit 'cause i'm kind of a better much better thank you so you mentioned the so this podcast is getting released on tuesday july ninth if you're hearing it on tuesday july ninth and you happen to live in chicago we are doing a free screening of a movie called the bystander moment the cat they just talked about 'em it's free it's at seven o'clock would love to see if you if you as it be elmhurst public library if you don't love in chicago you can get this film pretty easily and i will include a link to the show notes but this is a quick thirty five second blurb it's produced by jackson cats who's one of my heroes 'em talks a lot about equality in a statement ism and things like that and this is a quick thirty seconds from the trailer when people hear the word bystander they think about how people don't act when they see someone in arrest on the street down in the bystander black and white man let people walk down line they're the least individuals that are standing around watching it and know what it intervening but the problem with talking about the bystander in fact is that that had the stranger you're seeing something happening strangers on the street when we talk about the bystander approach we're not talking about strangers on the street but talking about known pure cultures were talking about when they're in pure clubs where they know people why don't they have to heightened ohio health plan when you're old girl okay good enough so i got some i got a quite a few guys from a men's group they're gonna show up they're bringing their teenage sons and daughters i'm bringing are two teenage daughters yeah it's only an hour long in the discussion about it so that kind of sets kevin i didn't know if we wanna talk about this today 'em but there's too many reasons you just finished the book has the yeah like a few a bunch of things came up there were some things in the news the just recently came up about a sexual still assault case i happened to be rating missoula over 'em this fourth of july week end finally 'cause i'd been a hearing about it for a long time and i wanna read it and also the fact there were screening this movie 'em it just made sense and really the goal of it is not to sensationalize the stories were gonna tell or it's not about being gratuitous her it's about if you have we can't do anything about these issues intel we believe there's an issue and we believe there's something up stand for you because right now i don't know why sexual assault is a political issue 'em because i don't know why anybody thinks it's like somebody against somebody it it's eight 'em crime end it is it crime that is you know this statistic around how often somebody reports and whether or not their report is considered 'em false the statistic stick is exactly the same for any other crime meaning like if someone is sexually assaulted the likelihood that they're going to a lie about it is between two and ten percent that's the same for someone who says their houses broken into their car has been stolen 'em that you know any number of other someone is hurt them beat them up its exact same stat 'em yet this is c only 'em issue that we have were actually the victim of a crime ends up being more a being put through the ringer out what happened to them blaze has blamed thank you a better word then put through the ringer 'em because of these false belief systems we have done i've done plenty of shows about me to we've done plenty funniest shows about sexual assault this is something that's a big part of our work because we are lucky enough 'em in are situation the tide gets to work with men and i get to work with women so we have disability the come together and talk about things from both perspective well in our i'll say is you know i think this would be a big deal regardless of my family situation that i have three daughters were one of which is gonna enter the university system at some point in the next few years 'em but it it just holds a very important piece in my life and that's part of the reason that drives me to work with men in helping guys understand what it means to be a man and just kind of like a healthy man healthy man healthy be masculine men and 'em so there's there's some very personal reasons why i think it's a very important topic and here's the thing you guys if i had three sons i would be justice motivated to do this work this isn't about if you've got a son or daughter there i have so many men in my life that i love this is not about i have daughters there from gonna protect him that see old model the new model is is i am going to educate my daughter's about what's right and wrong for them about their ability to make choices for themselves about their ability to 'em you know they get to choose for themselves what's right and they could just speak up and they say if something happened to them but i work with you know my college students you know in my nephew end my daughters friends end all and you know men gutter are age so many men did i care about that i want them to understand too that they can make different choices this isn't just about let's teach girls how to take care of themselves we have to on both sides come to an agreement an understanding of how we are affecting each other because if we don't if we think this is you against me you're trying to take me down and i'm trying to take you down it just give me a war so can you do if you're the disclaimer so we talked about 'cause then i wanna reach some stats that i got out of some summaries of this book and the disclaimers are not just women who get a self so we always have to do this because we you know it it's actually interesting that i'm about to do this 'cause it frustrates shot and i little bit when every interview starts with all these disclaimers but they're necessary because for a really long time we've been unable able to have this conversation because people get super defensive really quick which i understand if it's a little you know it if you don't have all the information then you assume people are coming after you here's the thing both women and men get raped both women and men get molested 'em there are women that have been perpetrators before all true okay but some of it in in maybe you're gonna reach some of these statistics and i don't wanna steal your thunder here but just to be clear ninety one percent of the victims of rape and sexual assault are women so why i say that is because i'm not denying the nine percent of men that are because we know some of them and it's justice painful and they had the exact same experience of ptsd and trauma and sometimes even more so because his men it also threatens their masculinity right i get that but we gotta look at the details of this and no and the numbers and know that ninety one percent are women year end ninety one you know so anyway so go hunt so i'm just gonna bullet point these stats are okay go ahead in college yes it says one in five women get raped this is a one in five women and one in seventy seventy one men will be raped at some point in their life okay a lot just a college and then should we differentiate between rape and assault 'em well different state by state okay because like in missoula would it be a little bit more ambiguous but if a safer stat one in five college women will get sexually assaulted correct because it has a lot to do with penetration by the way everybody will this backup for a second backup backup backup backup if you can't already tell by the content were talking about if you are listening with their kids right now this is probably one of those episodes that if you have a a teenager i think it's really important that if you're listening with her four year old you may not you may wanna save this one for when you're cleaning the kitchen or when you're on a run so just f y so moving on to what you were just asking is it's a form of penetration so like one of the women in missoula 'em who who was raped and it fell under the category of rape because of veterans yes it was it was digital yeah okay so it was not somebody raped her and it was intercourse but it was digital and it was extreme yeah you it was it was extraneous so that is still sexual assault and that was called rape in their states got so that's why we can't it's different in okay shape second one eighty percent a of rape is committed by an acquaintance correct in eight out of ten cases of rape victim knew the person who assaulted them eighty percent don't report to the police i have very similarly eighty one percent of women in thirty five percent of men 'em do not report less than five percent are ever prosecuted yes i have the exact same stan less than three percent ever face jail time convictions so meaning the perpetrator i need yeah not the victim ninety seven percent of the perpetrators get away scot free correct and then eighty percent of rapes eight i think i said this yet eighty percent of rape survivors do not report to the authorities so those are my staff end as far as going back to college campuses since were talking about missoula love is more than ninety percent of sexual assault victims on college campuses do not report so we're in everyday life eighty percent and that probably includes college campuses i'm sure that everybody but on a college campus ninety percent don't report so just for clarification 'cause i don't know if we really presented this very well on the book were referring to is jon krakauer book it's called missoula rape and the justice system in a college town he wrote in twenty fifteen 'em were big fans of john crack our pre what am i favored others innocent air into the wild under the banner of heaven amongst a few others yes and i'll say this just for people who have some knowledge about this book he got a lot of pushback about it a the town didn't like it they felt like they were being 'em feminized demonized when the truth is they don't really have the highest rates in the country a little bit less than average which was his point in that if this town has this many struggled to end their percentages a little lower the reason he chose this college town is because this his his reporting on this started with someone in his family or someone very close to him who would still struggling with rape ten years after it happened he didn't understand this he says he you know said i didn't understand why she's still struggling with rape ten years afterwards he didn't understand how it affects psychology so he started investigating for his own likely in understanding yes he wasn't trying to research a book at the time and he he ran across a story from zillow about a girl that opens the book named allison who there is a her best friend from childhood rapes her and an it's her story of how it evolved which is basically the whole first chapter of the book and he got really interested in this story and then when he started looking into missoula where this happened he realized that like over the last two or three years maybe even four years there were three hundred and fifty sexual assaults that had been reported right and only like ten or fourteen team that had been in any way prosecutor and i don't even know what the result was so he was like what is going on right so that's how it all started 'em so i just wanna to be other pushback he got was that a lot of the people in the book claim that he didn't talk to them and he if you watch any interview with him reid anything he's like i i talked to everybody is a very thorough investigating author reporter whatever exactly and so i've just trying to say that for someone who's like oh i heard this and this about this book tonight did some pretty deep investigation about the history of this book we've listened to a lot of the interviews read a lot of the reports an end 'em you know there's no way i could say it's a hundred percent accurate is but i feel as if it's eight a well researched book yes exactly so should i play a clip where do you wanna start 'em let's see why don't you start will just start the conversation all right so this is a john crack hardly author was getting interviewed on cbs this morning and this is just a quick minute or so from that interview of rape in this country and there's all these missed it if if if a woman is being raped she'll fight to the death you know she didn't prove she must have wanted it well that's nonsense women there's many reasons the trauma being penetrated in most private parts another person is so different and other kinds of trauma that it changes the brain chemistry there's good science irrefutable science and what other cases the woman who after she was raped she drove the rape is home right which police in used against her that's right the the defense attorneys for the quarterback you said against her but in fact the psychologist who is an expert witness decorative lisa pointed out that that's pretty common east la just that kind of so the question is why do they do it why do men rate is about power control or is it about it's about canoes melby irony of that question sweeter so the person who is speaking there so is gayle king mhm andy then the person has such question with charlie rose who has been accused of sexual harassment and correct yeah i don't know if they were sexually so why would a woman who just got raped hurts drive the perpetrator own so here's the thing that we don't understand this is why it's really important for educators therapists parents don't understand trauma okay because trauma does not look look the way we think it looks 'em trump we were in a position of of being harmed okay like you are being harmed in some way or you feel that you are under attack we forget that there are actually three responses not just to you we all we say fighter flight and okay you're either gonna fight or you're gonna run we forget the third response which is freezing yeah okay and this is all through nature and human beings do this all the time and i think men and women both can think about times when they froze like let's take let's take it off sexual assault you're standing in the street in cars coming towards you sometimes you free train is coming you freezers like these are basically it's a shutdown down of your prefrontal cortex where there's so many chemicals because of you're fear and because of what's happening and because of your brain's ability to wrap up its mind literally around what's happening to you that you do nothing and this is like eight a very typical response of someone who is being molested someone who is being raped someone who's in the middle of being mugged like i i know a few people who have been mugged who have been like they they could have run and they didn't yup you know they literally are standing there and it's not a thought process there is something about the brain and a lot of it is you know you if you reid about this you'll get a lot of you know different scientists and you know therapists and neurobiology just explaining why and and what chemicals are going on but a lotta times with the women i talked to they fear getting hurt more by saying something by stopping it a lot of girls who are being raped like in their sleep or win someone thinks at their past out will allow it to continue meaning they're not allowing anything they just shut down yet because they're more fearful of stopping it because it that they think there'll be harmed more their thought processes if i do something right now in this person is willing to do this to me while i'm asleep what are they gonna do to me if i tell them to stop so you just gave a really good explanation of why 'em hey somebody who just assaulted her rape somebody that the victim would dr the person home to it i didn't talk about that what you and i talk about and so i'm talking about in the midst of the crime the okay so the next thing is a women have also been taught to not make waves to to 'em make sure everybody around them feels okay about what just happened there is like i remember a story we told about a six months ago a year ago about when amy schumer came out and said she had been raped by a boyfriend of hers that she was sexually sleeping next you they hadn't slept together yet and she woke up and he was having sex with her and she said that after it was over and he kind of he felt bad and she sued him and she like was like she made him feel she made him feel better and i understand how in a courtroom that could be ripped apart part but understanding trauma it makes complete sense to me you know if anybody is and and i keep using this as an example only because i think it's doing such a good job of portraying a realistic domestic abuse situation but we've been talking about big little live you can have the crap beat out of you and then hug that person as you fall asleep if you've ever worked with us you know women or men who have been abused in this way it's it's not straightforward are brain has a traumatic response our emotional and what we've been taught by society so i can see someone saying okay this thing just happened to me 'em i need to get this person out of here as soon as i can i'll drive in the home yeah okay taylor the next part so now they're safe from harm right why in the world wouldn't victim instantly go to the police to make sure this gets investigated and they get prosecuted for it okay because of the stats that you've already offered which it's different in every state but it's always around that ninety seven percent they have watched other people come forward they have heard other people's stories about not being believed by the police they have heard people who maybe have gotten through that hurdle of the police and then found themselves in a courtroom and then they get taken to task for what happened i keep saying taken the test and they get blamed for what happened they you know basically the questions are what were you doing what were you drinking what were you wearing so they know that's gonna happen and they know that the thee rate of the person who 'em attacked them or who victimized some of them facing any consequences minimal now that's actually what i think is a third tier thing i think the first year thing is i have to figure out what just happened to me sometimes it takes people a really long time i've had women in my office who have told me a story about being sexually assaulted and they didn't use that language which and then when they told me the whole story and said it out loud i have said do you understand that what happened to you and they have the realization that they were raped her sexually assaulting a woman in you're offering up before exactly and that's been with teams or i should say college students end 'em well in teams unfortunately i have heard from some and then women who are in their forties who were telling me a story of being twenty core like holy crap i was raped right but their brain because of the trauma any immense impact any ability to do anything about it categorized it somewhere else not only categorize it somewhere else but internally blamed themselves and shame to themselves so it and it became something not only did they not go to the police which is kind of the third tier thing sure they also decided it was their fault that even happen and carried a quick quote times because i found this quote to be like the most powerful way to say this okay so this quotas by jessica valenti who wrote the purity mess and she said now should we treat women as independent agents responsible for themselves of course but being responsible has nothing to do with being raped women don't get raped because they were drinking and took drugs women do not get raped because they weren't careful enough women get raped because someone raped them i i mean that we we do we have all this fingerpointing about if she would have worn something different if she hadn't been drunk if she had stayed with her friend if she hadn't slept there if she hadn't trusted this guy some buddy did it regardless of her alcohol level well end is i found this a interview between and this is an nbc news thing in there is eight news reporter who's interviewing one of the victims that is identified in columbus zoo the book and a well why didn't you scream out why didn't you fight back this person is already willing to rape you it's hard to imagine what they would do you know what they wouldn't do the stop you from telling people so those were the two people in the beginning of the book that i told you about alison imbo in that story after she has that exact experience where he's raping her she he she's honored and thirty pounds he's two hundred and thirty one pounds he's a football player and she is it she wakes up when it's happening and she's scared to death her brain is is stuck a she's freezing and she's also feeling as if if i do something right now what could possibly happen you may thirty doing this exactly what's to say they won't take the next step and take it up you know if you could make it worse i guess you order i could rail in another way he's already hurting everybody could hurt her another way and she ended up running away she ends up like when everything is over and she thinks in he thinks she's sleep she ends up leaving and running and he ends up running after her now she feels like he's running after her she's thinking to himself he's gonna kill me he's gonna kill me because that's where her brain is is into radio prefrontal cortex is reptilian brain so correct now what he was actually saying to her was stop allison i didn't mean to 'em i'm sorry he realizes he realized that he did you know so you know once she was able to sit and tell the whole story she could hear the words he was saying but she just felt as if he's gonna kill me now let me say something in the middle of this so we don't lose people when we talk about these things what i think todd in my hope always is and why were screening this movie on to stay in why we want to not only educate educate women about how to take care of themselves but men about 'em what consent is end sometimes what they believe is okay which is not okay their own kind of privilege and entitlement not i'm not saying that men are privileged entitled i'm sometimes they're taught they can be sure this makes sense of course tonight you're not like let's throw a bunch of boys in jail right this is not about prison sentences and locking them up for thirty years michael is let's get to kids before this happened right let's teach them about what they can do differently it's not about end result in punishment if you listen is on parenting radio were actually much bigger fans of communication in education than punishment which is exactly why were you know i i'm hoping thing that we get some people there that you know it's probably a little too 'em it's the content is probably not good for anybody on twelve and under but it's about having these really important conversations with this be a kid's earlier because to try to convince an eighteen year old or twenty eight year old there thirty year old you know jackson cats who produces movie it's about the rape culture and he talks about the top of the pyramid is you you know in just blatant rape and then the bottom of the pyramid is 'em you know what is it that were teaching about you know if there's a boy that gets a accused of throwing like a girl and that's a bad thing what is it saying about says while road a calling girls slots bitches hose 'em you know like todd said assuming that there is a hierarchy that men are just inherently better than women and also the belief and this is kind of the belief in the incell movement tonight i don't know if we've talked about that but it's something that todd and i talk about a lot of in title like talk to you more about what the in some movement is but a lot of the belief behind it which i think a lot of people kerry but maybe aren't as upfront her obvious about their belief is that women old men if if a woman says she's interested in you that she desires you that she's hot for you that she may even say i wanna have sex with you that if that has been said then demand gets to follow through no matter what an end when i'm saying that the court system has has even up held that you that if you said you wanna have sex with him outside if you got inside and said no and he didn't listen you already told him and he thought you did so he was entitled have sex with you that's something we gotta break apart like that belief system that men are entitled to get something they thought they were gonna get end the belief is that a man can't stop i don't know how many shows we've done about this that's completely not true of course american stop you of course they can end now why that's important is women have the right to have desire and you know what i mean there's a woman has a right to to be attracted to a man and to demonstrate interest of a man in a man or woman 'cause this is not gender specific but with john and i are talking specifically about you know we talked about ninety one percent of women 'em or ninety one percent of rapes are of women you know i'm i am being more gender specific in this conversation i guess but you know i'm sidetracking a little bit but it's something i really wanna bring in here as elizabeth gilbert has a new book out called city of girls and i've been really interested not only in the book but in all of her interviews about it because lists gilbert is a huge advocate for women's rights she's a feminist always has been a she's taken a really nontraditional pass with her life you know she it's a that's a long story but her book city of girls is about women's desire yeah and that it's okay and then it's not something we should be ashamed of or shamed for and she totally gets the me too movement understands that respects it wants it to 'em continues fars opening up in conversation and making sure world educated but she doesn't want her goal the city of part of the city of girls part of it was just read a good book but what's remember that women have desire to but that doesn't mean someone gets to take from them because of their desire well and it goes back to you're quote i mean i i never heard that quote yeah a from the beginning of the book yeah but the simplicity is 'em it's so it's so funny how quickly we can get lost in the detail correct alcohol try and even in some of the interviews i listen to his krakauer he's like i don't wanna talk about alcohol yeah because alcohol izzy mechanism is that these perpetrators users are weapon it's something that they used both and themselves and trying to get their counterparts as drunk as possible so the they're less aware of what's going on so just prepare quote me one more trips with yeah it's really powerful i think i even read it to you and we're in galena 'cause i was like jesus is that right now and this is really important part of what i'm saying about lives gilbert's messaging in any feminist message which we have the right to are desire and and if we want to have sex if there's consensual sex you know that's okay this is not a problem so the quote starts now should we treat women it's independent agents responsible for themselves yes of course but being responsible has nothing to do with being raped women don't get raped because they were drinking are took drugs women do not get raped because they weren't careful enough women get raped because someone raped them yeah yeah and it's just so funny how confused we get how as a society or the justice system where the police department or whatever it is and the bottom line is that in most cases ninety one percent of the perpetrators are men and they they made a decision whether coherent or not but they were gonna take what they thought was there that is not even close to there's correct end in they have been taught by society that it is there's and that they're entitled to it they have been taught that if a woman in tyson's you aware zillow cut shirt or you know shows her body or says the cheese into you says she's hot for you that means you have sex with her there is nothing true in there and there is women it in for that matter have a right to be a sexual being read without being taken advantage of in the process and people you know i hope or passes by now but people will say well freshly gonna communicate while whereabout have sex or you know it's gonna ruin the process every step of the way there should be consent consent is this where we're going is this okay is this all right are you know there is eight and when you are when a woman is asleep passed out and you're having sex with them it's obvious that they're not aware of what's occurring this is how we shift the culture this is why we have to have these conversations with our young men andrew young women to make this normalize this conversation in this documentary hurry is called 'em the bystander moment because you know because most of the time a bystander somebody's sitting watching something happen well and they you know in the movie in the documentary it talks about you know the harvey weinstein's of the world kevin spacey's of the world 'em lucy case of the world and they focus on that because we all know those dreams right and they focus on the fact that it wasn't just them there were people around him who knew what they were doing if if anyone saw the r kelly documentary you know you everybody in his entourage knew what he was doing not only did they not say anything they sometimes helped him with the process and so they may not be doing it well air bystander hollywood affect with these movie stars that are being held accountable for some of their actions is is fine in it's important but 'em i think sometimes it's easier to disregard it because were not close the hollywood stars yes what but the first you know stat we said to you you know i have three daughters my buddy has four daughter yeah odds are one of them is gonna be assaulted in college so here's a conversation tonight had in the car other day we were talking about this a maybe not specific about this a statistic but you were talking about this issue because 'em eight out of ten 'em people who were raped or raped by an acquaintance okay so think about that so there's only two stranger danger rapes you're out of town so eight of these people are people people that the person's either dating her they know sometimes it's spouse so rape yes rates can occur within a marriage 'em so that's kind of what's going on so time they were talking about some people we know a you know we grow up with i went to school with their wherever we know stories about the under not only do we know stories because maybe we're president for something or because i have people i know who told me 'em i know a lot of stories about people who that i loved by who you know have have had experiences 'cause they've shared with me as a therapist my point in saying that is that a lot of the people that are involved or the person who perpetrated the crime or who raped this person were good i'm gonna use this word just so people understand were good guys you guys you'd see out and give him a hug and be like hey you know you could socialize with him and study with some they weren't out there with a mask and a knife they just didn't know if i'm not gonna let them off the hook they thought they could do that yeah well and we say that i think they can do that sometimes it's the whole culture and i wasn't a fraternity system in the early nineties end it was we didn't even second guess that be that we tried to get the girls at her party drunk not necessarily to go rape them but you're more likely to have a chance at hooking up with them and some time in in what i now i'm still trying to figure out is if the only way to give consent is by is what they sober enthusiastic yes makes me wonder my four years of college did anybody have any conceptual so well and this is where we kind of have to do what krakauer dead as let's it's remove alcohol first second only because it muddies it up to end start to teach and talk about what consent is early end that basic understanding of entitlement to someone's body or that someone do something to you or for you that is the real problem you throw alcohol on that that's like throwing gas on a fire okay so it just exacerbates it it just makes it more likely or makes it a bigger problem but the the beginning stage to me because i have these conversations in college we just don't you know tonight have these conversations all the time because not only are we trying to teach it well were trying to make sure that we share with others in the most accurate in fact you know we try a news release salad fax end really great examples so people can hear us rosser trained a teacher girls this and were trying to grapple with that are so sure as you know grown people right like where did we fall in this continual motives are belief system and what we struggle with is like what i always explain the tide is in college even in high school and definitely when i lived in chicago eras all my issue i had the kerry the keys i had to run home i had to make sure i walked with somebody i couldn't stay out past dark and putting that in quotes nobody ever questioned what males were doing it was are women taking care himself you're even telling me a story and i will be very careful here to not you know give away who this this story you know who this belongs to but you were talking about somebody who's in a relationship where sometimes the person that they were whip the way they dressed created a situation return bars at parties now i was even questioning you're like what created a situation and you felt that you and i and i still don't know if there's any conclusion to his but as a confusing question and the question was this like there's my buddy he has a girlfriend who is young and attractive and they go to clubs like it's not our world are world is starbuck clear you saying i'm not young and attractive and then items at a club we go to starbucks in a movie and then vegas mighty c i n vegas lippi and my buddy has a girl who's like he's got a girlfriend who's like twenty four years old and she dresses the what's the word i wouldn't say provocatively but that show that's just the way she wants to address right but some people people perceive that to be a attention seeking from men or women i dunno and my buddies like listen the the reality of the situation is that she is going to get hit on more at the club club if she wears though low cut topper a you know a short miniskirt or whatever and then all of a sudden it's a big hassle because i have to you know sometimes defend and protect this girl because some these i'm using this word i don't know if he did neanderthals will just start really hyper aggressively coming out and he's like my night would be so much easier if she toned it down so i wouldn't so we wouldn't have to be put in a situation and you hear that what you're saying though right i know which is women have to not idi attention they have to not wear what they want and his argument was it's not the way it's supposed to be it's the way it is and so in the meantime are we gonna continue to try to educate our youth about consent in that it's okay for anybody to be dress any certain way that doesn't mean that they're looking for anything of course but at the same time the reality is when certain people dressed in a certain way they're gonna attract more attention and they're more likely to get harassed that's that's the truth 'em yeah in and this goes back to be a you know idea of like he she dresses a certain way and guys hit on her and i have to save her end that whole idea of like you know the idea that the men were there to save us manners saving us from other men and we don't wanna be it's i'm using this quote director from the justin bell don't anything we don't we don't wanna be saved and of course we wanna be like the bystander thing like health and don't allow people to be hurt if it'd be male female whatever have to be why or am i in situation where i either have to be 'em you know like where certain things to make sure nobody hurts me because the people i'm wester like you men will hit on you and i have to protect so you just don't do that no i i understand someone could lay that out in front of me insane but in this moment this is the way it is let's just keep this person safe i am willing to go okay and like you know to stand with you on that if you at the same time you again with me on this is a problem that needs to change because what the problem is is when we say women just need to be dressed dressed differently women need to girls and teenagers and he just stop wearing yoga pants school girls need to stop wearing halter top because boys concede her bra straps and we blame girls for what boys and men have been taught isn't entitlement to women's bodies so it's this vicious cycle yeah and in in some point we stop together in the middle and say okay i hear you but can you then can we start to move this backwards where you start to understand that you may be turned on by a woman's body but that's your thing to deal with it being turned on doesn't mean you get to penetrate somewhat right you don't get because you know what guess what women have desires to we have fantasies we have thoughts like it's not as if sexuality is in a real thing among human being what i know you hate this movie but there's a scene where tom cruise is talking to nicole kidman in eyes wide shut and like tom cruise's has this assumption like oh it's just the guys that are always out on the prowl end 'em nicole kidman's like you if you only knew in which he talks about is i totally have fantasies about in in it's and that wasn't interesting thing but what i would like to do is build a talk to players go let's stay on that second women do have fantasy just but fantasies you know what i have exposed to the entire her male fantasy through porn every freaking day or so men get to put their fantasies out there and say this is just porn we just have a right to it we get to do the end women's fantasy somehow then it's their detriment like if they have a fantasy world they're asking to be raped do do you see what i mean there's no like an end it's not hey what i wanna do is find that place in the middle it's not about we win you guys lose you should go to jail i don't want men in prison i want men to understand limits minutes i want them to understand consent i don't wanna arrest a bunch of men sure i want in understanding of that you know asked to have a conversation to not start with the belief system that they are entitled to do what they wanna do simply because not maybe just because they're male but will talk about missoula again somebody starts because they have power because they had their on the football team because they have never been taught that anything they do has consequences that's the conversation that's where it starts of parenting sure do you see what i mean well in a i'm gonna go back just a few minutes as you talked about the yoga pants thing in 'em you know it's it's interesting because what i would like to say to lake but say whatever there's a seventh grade boy who all of a sudden gets a little all 'em like there's a biological reaction because he happens to see the form of a wild one i mean there's nothing to be ashamed of there's nothing to suppress yourself about there's nothing like that's a normal thing like we're created his sexual human being like this is the way our creator designed it is it's we certain sometimes do have certain biological reaction there's nothing wrong with that now what are you going to do with that and that's the conversation that needs thank you because women also i mean you know if you've ever been to a strip club with women and women also get excited and you know what i'm using the strip club as and example just because you know when you get a grouping people together and oftentimes in a intimate thing there's not a lot of people around unless you have you know different desire tendencies so my point is is that we all have desire and desire the desires that i have should not make me a victim right the desires that i have do not mean well you were asking to be raped yoga pants that i wear should not be turned against me as something i should be ashamed of you know like i because not every you know i just said todd 'cause are daughters and are nieces just when a downtown go shopping today they're like you know all dressed up and excited and i was just saying that a lot of times what are girls and what other girls where it's rather grocer we just like enjoy looking good for each other and i know that may not make sense to a lot to maybe no i think that's an important thing that needs to be said to a bunch of men and boys is like were not dressing nurses cystic i know like they're just dressing up to make themselves look more attractive so hopefully i could buy a drink and take them home yet not about you all the time right yeah i mean i'm not saying it never is i'm just like you know you and i go out on a date i think through what i'm gonna wear because what color above but that's because love you and run relationship and that is something that i choose for myself but i don't feel but i have to you're not telling me what to wear that's a totally different thing and women often especially in college and in high school and even in their twenties they dress for each other or for themselves so you you know they dress because they love fashion they dress because they feel good a certain way they dress because it's who they are it's not all about sex so i'm in again you may think but you were you meet people maybe listening thinking but you were just talking about desire hiring women have is that they do and at the same time leave room for all these things there's desire and then there's also they just dress in a way that they want a dresser like you yeah so okay go from i mean talk about her partner near the week welcome you know a it's about the comb sweet it's not about the chemicals that gets rid of lisin nuts so if you are a parent out there and you got that letter home from school or summer camp 'em most of the latest combs on the market slip flip right past the tiny point three million my millimeter wide lays eggs which are called nets the welcome has rigid teeth just the right distance apart in a double edged that is able to get right down to the scalp and capture and remove lights and nets there's no pests pesticide and actress illusion that could harm it it's all about the comb says what you do go to welcome dot com to order you're welcome kit or even go to the dollar general to purchase it donald dollar general general life and removal kit which includes welcome so thank you woke over partnering with those and helping us make this podcast possible okay so i wanna talk about one more thing and then let's switch to just talking about up standard bystander okay one more thing i wanna talk about is there was a tastes that was in the news last week 'em about his age judge who had decided to give 'em on offender a really low sentence and it was because 'em what was the quote he said so this judge said this young man had raped this woman andy he had even texted his friends saying something specific like when you're first sexual experiences rape like he knew what he was doing was raping her and he shared i think a i know he shared the text and possibly video but i don't know that for sure so i'll just say the text for sure i know and so the judge said when he was giving him his sentence this young man comes from a good family who to put him into an excellent school where he was doing extremely well he is clearly a candidate for college and probably a really good college anand 'em he had good test scores and we don't want to condemn juveniles about it's kind of a long statement but basically what he was saying was that because he had prior good character he didn't want him to have to suffer so my question is why were so concerned about making young men suffer the definition of white privilege it is and so ashley i know the answer and so this is what i wanna share with people that maybe you don't notice because there is another court case where a female judge actually a female judge said there is a young girl who was raped a twelve year old by sixteen year old and she said ed 'em you know this girl she really didn't have any long lasting consequences from it i mean again talk about not understanding trauma and that because no one was really harmed in the process except for that moment but we should just move on okay so this this is what i want everybody understand in our country there for post traumatic stress disorder there's two categories of the of people that suffer post traumatic stress disorder the most and the category you could probably guess the first one 'em wind overtime but a sexual assault is one of them but these other veterans war yeah so the to the top two categories for people who struggle with post traumatic stress are veterans end a rape yeah okay somebody who has been sexually assaulted 'em have not only does their brain chemistry change like literally hard wiring in their brain changes have long lasting effects that often go throughout their lifetime like i said i have women in my office who were talking to me it they're like forty forty five years old about something that happened to them when they were twenty and they still can't figure out why they think and do certain things once they connected to that they start have some healing but these were things it's not the moment it's not be act it's everything that happens after what society tells them the fact that they can't do anything about it the fact that they don't feel they can talk about it because of the shame it's this either either might happen again the worry that it might happen again the the the guilt that maybe the person who did it to them does it to somebody else be being told by family members don't say anything 'em being afraid to tell anybody because then everyone will say go to the police and then you know where that's gonna go right or going to the police say don't believe you i could go on and on just not only watched the um you know not only reid missoula but watch the documentary the hunting ground watch the documentary the what's the rates get one 'em i am of it and i am evidence you don't need to take this from kathy in todd like go out and watch some of this a this real life examples of what happens to people not only two people experienced post traumatic stress but because they experienced that they ended up having physical issues they end up having a lot of women ended up with fibromyalgia and auto immune disorders and they ended up with it and again this is more mental wellness but long term depression longterm anxiety there are this is not about i'm saying it again in the moment it's about what you're putting what this person what happens to them yeah now i say that with also because i'm a therapist hope that if they can talk about it if they feel understood in heard they moved through in i mean it's not it makes it a source of strength and power in in definition change directive you're alive to to help others that have gone through the same thing there's so many different ways you can use it correct like post traumatic growth you know and that's absolutely true so i'm not saying every single personal experience that but think about this statistically told you there is so many women that are silent about this and yes men to but because we're focusing on women today there's a silence around it and the silence is deafening and it gets people sick so i'm saying that because a lot of times were so worried about 'em you know i don't wanna hurt this young man's life and we have already the woman has already been so hurt hurt all her life taiwan i know you know this but you know you don't hear those types of stories for an inner city african american youth thinking thinking sure though many different examples of that of the people getting treated differently because their parents a really good were absolutely end because of all of their background in our money in their family and you know and that's the thing even though todd and are being very focused because we were talking about missoula 'em in this podcast were not even talking talking about the lgbtq rate you know regarding rape an omelette station or a transgender people who there's there's such a like the statistics are even worse and higher end more challenging and so this is an issue and but here's the thing we can make a change if we at least acknowledge it's an issue like the restarted in the middle said this is not about throwing people in prison that's not what i want i have no desire to see people's kids thrown in jail it's not about you know 'em punishment it's about education you but there's such a pushback about no this isn't happening it isn't true women lie in the universities are so complicit us because there's money to be loss yes if they're university is known i'm sure that alumni probably stopped contributing as much because of dc awareness that credit card game to this town correct because there's a little bit there's against it now did you hear todd the a one thing i think is krakauer said this on the interview he was saying that one place there could be a starting place it's not the only place but is in head coaches a football teams because they have the power they do so if you had a guy on your team who had been accused of sexual assault the first thing you do is maybe have a what's it called where they are they can't play for a gamer to suspend it okay so they're suspended they're not kicked off the team because you you have to you know do there's a federal 'em but then if if it's true like if there is proof that this person sexually assaulted that if they were let go from the team what ends up happening is other teams are willing pick up this player or because they're good filters it's like a blind eye is turned so what's the motivation for someone to learn what's the motivation for someone it's happened with domestic abuse to where a player is released and in other teams like well pick him up for sure so there's not enough of everybody has a different moral compass every organization every person and sometimes winning is more important to doing what i would consider the right thing yeah and it has a lot to do with you know like the kid boat in this book allison's first approached him because it was her best friend from childhood was just say i want an apology i want you to admit what happened to me which bo did he and she actually tape recorder that she wasn't she wasn't wasn't planning on going to the police but she needed it for herself but then as time went on she realized she was filled with anger and that she didn't feel like he was doing anything different still out drinking and one time she showed up at a bar and he was there and she felt sick and he staring at her and she looked at him and he told her oh my god and so she's like okay wait a second do you may need believed that 'em so she was like wait a second i thought like she really thought me me just having him come forward will make her feel better and she doesn't need to go to the police but they're even win something has been done and you've hurt someone and they tell you injure behavior doesn't change so anyway so that's i'm gonna close the book on that 'em thank you for all the time that i know i talked a lot that's all right i mean you read the book i didn't 'em and i probably should but i should we be reading a lot of books but this is definitely one of manila krakauer so maybe it's and it's on my maybe it's in my future so talk about up standard bystander a little more 'em well i mean the documentary urges won't were called like what are we trying to cultivate what's her goal and i want an asian i want they young men that are going to the documentary screening on tuesday night to see the statistics to know that because one thing that a who's the guy that does jackson catholic says that we the reason we don't say something what you you know say you're in a fraternity house and you see something that you should probably 'em intervene but there are a high school party high school party whatever and the reason that we don't is not because we feared getting beat up it's because of the social pressure pressure that happens the the perceived social pressure that happens if you are the one that calls out certain behaviors and what i wanna do is in power the parents center in that room to have these conversations what these young men and young women and then further young men and women that happened to be in the room i want i i have a feeling that these are going to be anybody who shows up to this type of screening is i in my opinion has a potential be a standup human being and to be eight leader because unless you're having these conversations and you have this awareness you're probably just gonna kinda cower away so i wanna power these young men to stand up that were in that that high school party erin this college party or in your twenties at the bar and you see something that just doesn't look right that you stand up not to protect this woman put the call out back man who happens to be doing whatever this is 'em and you know that's a little a few layers up the the the foundational layer is what do we what is equality mean an do we have a right to a woman's body in may and my answer is no anand do we laugh at the jokes at the bar and do we know tony porter is one of our favorite teachers and he talks about how he was working with a young man andy when he gets compared to a girl that the the specific words he uses it would east and tony ask the young man what would that do to you if you were kind of call this sissy or young girl or something like that and he's like it would destroy him and tony focuses on that language is like think about that it would destroy some young men to be compared to a young woman in his question is what are we teaching are young men about what a what a the value of a woman mhm and it's just totally messed up so the only way the anything ever happens in my opinion is to have conversations and that's the goal is like communication tation leads the education education lease communication you know they they go hand in hand but like you know just the definition of it up standard somebody who recognizes when something is wrong first you gotta recognize that something's wrong right end you act to make it right when we stand up for what is right and do our best to help and support and protect someone who is being hurt were being socially responsible that's the definition of enough stander this but to help are kids take action they first half denault getting a girl drunk and bringing her in a bedroom is not okay like that has to be known that's the piece that i think is missing is that kids don't even know is this it's not even about the legal like we could bring the line and say it's illegal but it just lets rental k and one thing and i am is guilty of this is anybody but you know 'cause i open the show it saying i have three daughters and it doesn't matter if i have three daughters or i have a wife or i came through my mom who gave me life 'em where human beings it's got nothing to do with that i have a daughter sister a wife or anything what are we doing about treating and another if we think that this rape culture which is absolutely at a truth and you know once again i i hate to like disclaim make these disclaimers is what they've found out through the science says i'm understanding it most guys aren't aren't this but most guys are bystanders most geyser not the perpetrators there's a few perpetrators and they're doing it a lot right then they get really really good at it and they wanna do it over and over again but most of us in i hold my hand up including me i am a bystander who does contribute to this culture and what i wanna do is stand up and take ownership andy call something out when i see it and we can be creative about how we call things out like i can't even say it with my friends or you know people then i'm west it may not be around sexual assault and rape culture but you steer someone in a different direction meaning if you see her friend doing something you could be kind of a smart ass like you know hey why not do that and you could you could use humor not like todd i'm gonna speak for you first second battalion been kinda working on how to speak up with his friends it's like the last ten years and initially you were kind of harsh and that was ineffective no it just got a defensive yeah and so like he's been practicing this like how do you have this conversation without cause you don't wanna sound entitled either like well just listen to me i ruined who knows you don't wanna sound like a no it all end we have these conversations all the time about how do we know how do we say can we help the person who might end up getting hurt maybe we don't go after are friend and say you know this could look so many different ways that's what i mean is like a i know one of are friends i think it was duffy he was talking about that his son or maybe a friend of his centers something i can't remember but that at parties sometimes they're just are they're they're noticing what's happening to the girls and they make sure that girl gets home yeah so maybe they are like standing in front of their buddy lightning but they're saying to the girl i will help you get home so nothing happens there are many different ways to be an up stander or to not be a bystander i wish they would have called this movie the up standard enter move and read it because bystander they're trying to focus on the problem is nobody knows what a dope stander is everybody knows what a bystander yeah i guess so but what about my definition i just threw out there the people don't have you're you defining things all the come on of course oh one more thing that i actually i think i heard dax shepard say this on his podcast said it his daughter's school they have an up stander award but they give like everyone liquor every month so these kids understand that part you're job in school is to speak up when you see something go wrong and to be socially responsible that you are not just there for you that when you were in a community you are there to be a part of the community which means sometimes speaking up and they award ward kids now again i interview or it could go gosh lobby brady wrong you you know like bobby brady became oh did he become a patrol yeah he's like a monitor patrolman dude and he took advantage of it at the lab that i know there are we understand the pendulum and how things can go too far but i like the fact that his daughter's school recognize why recognize the word up stander and that part of our job within society is to play a role and that engine not being living secrecy yeah so 'em i can't a cut off the podcast without first talking about jeremy craft he's a bald head of beauty he does painting and remodeling throughout chicago land area he's been a partner since podcast number one an hour on park podcast number five hunter once a thank you jeremy furrier partnership did you call in area and you're looking at getting something remodeled or getting your house painted interior or exterior he does it all give them a call call six three oh nine five six eighteen hundred or go to add co dot net and 'em any other things you wanna plug their the bystander moment movie is tonight and choose day july ninth at seven o'clock at the elmhurst public library i know not all of our listeners love here but for people who love around come you don't you can register on her website but you can just show up 'em end you don't have to do anything i mean you could just come in and watch it like pressure we were this is community education you were just trying to offer something so people could have a new language in perspective but tonight we'll stay after the movies over i think it's a sixty minute movie so we can answer questions or if people have a comment that they wanna share so so you could just come in the back and watch it and leave or you can come in watch it and ask some questions like were gonna be there so i really do hope i taught it's been really pushing the men in his men's group to come and men that he knows in any man who lives in the area and i think women should come to i think we should all be on the same page with language absolutely 'em fourteen forty that's an awesome retreat center on the west coast catching they're doing a workshop out there october twenty fifth through the twenty seventh go to our website for more details i'm a coach if you're a guy out there and you wanna do some either 'em a face to face coaching and virtual coaching coaching dot com and then we'd teams in i was gonna say you guys okay so if you guys have been listening you know that we have done parenting radio last week we launched pop culture inc which is are second podcast you know that we have a third podcast it's called then talks and we've been doing this for over a year it's a part of teams then it's really just another podcast 'em end we now have sixty of oh you're so if you joined teams then you get access to this and talks podcast so you sixty the chicken choose from plus all the new ones that are coming up on teams then is basically an opportunity to have access to this podcast an opportunity to have access to a virtual community of people who are also doing the parenting thing so you never feel alone you know and with in teams then we have even smaller communities within teams on one community that's focused on raising children who were differently wired a one community who's that are focused on raising teenagers so within the community unity which is great enough there's even smaller communities that have gotten together to support each other so it's time i think this is like a no brainer for people but we just don't think that we speak about it very well because you know people will still email us and ask us long questions were like this is what teams ns yes come join us a weakening answer and support you and you could get on library you could just listen to podcasts after the fact is twenty five bucks a month a we have a face but community where we support one another it's just a lot more todd kathy so if you get some value of those in parenting radio podcast you're gonna love teams on and you know so we just love to have you join then parenting radio dot com you confined is on parenting radio a are podcast pop culture thing you could find teams that you could viner events you couldn't find pictures of todd yeah smiling smiling and showered yeah he's on showered a lot we've got a new sox hat though it looks nice i do that means it'll sharper few more days i know grace are guys a keep trucking love you see next week by everyone remember to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode and feel free to leave a review and i tunes it helps people find us hey we just launched a new podcast pop culture ing it's generation x look at movies tv with focus on personal growth and self awareness basically it's the flip side of cpr we breakdown key moments end little known facts and discuss what it means to be human it's a podcast we've been searching for so we decided a creator so yes did you know todd we have a third podcast i did not know about we do it's called then talks and it's included with teams than membership you get access to all this and talks the podcast and that's we have like sixty in counting access to a community facebook page where you could ask us you're personal questions angie of access to a parenting community so you'll never feel alone again within teams and they're smaller groups like raising it differently wired kid or raising teenagers there's just don't do parenting alone join teams and hey we wanna tell you about and exciting weekend workshop we have coming up on october twenty fifth through the twenty seventh at the majestic fourteen forty in california redwoods near santa cruz for more details go a virtual radio dot com invite us just speak to your organization or you're school about sex at in the twenty first century it's most important communication the parents can have with their kids but it's not happening nearly enough email todd it's on parenting radio dot com ergo design parenting radio dot com to submit a speaker a question while you're there check out her other upcoming events or you could purchase one of my three books if you ever shopped amazon you can help us out by going to our amazon links under support us on our home page it doesn't cost anything to you but we get a small commission from amazon guys two things i have a coaching practice and it's called todd adams coaching dot com check it out and i also have i try men's group in in the past it's always he's been 'em in person but we now have even virtual community we do at least one 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