Mowing Devil - 153

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Welcome friends. How do heretic? Uncle Mark. Dan. This is your users guide to life on the outside. Leaving Religions verstappen or larger. To can also be scary world. Differently now. Never fear, that's why we're here. We're audio uncles and with from good friends and experts in all sorts of fields were to share the stories and Zeke knowledge to build a great life. After all the only get the old we'd better break. Hell fellas. That was kind of the Alex Jones slash gold prospectors, slash something opening. We needed but now I can't imagine living without it. I feel like everyone is retroactively clamoring for it. I don't think people out there in radio land understand how hot it is in our houses, right? Because, we had to turn off the AC two podcast. So we're kind of we're hallucinating a little bit. So we're also suffering from smoke inhalation from California. Seriously, can you come get your smoke? It's not for us here we have delicate lungs fire sucks but I really don't appreciate the smoke. Okay. I'm going to be a Utah Karen. Rain, your forests California Jesus fucking for us. Well Anyway. We gotTA show. It's a full and. I time I can say that there are no I don't think anybody's going to cry. Yeah. There are no triggered warnings to serve think of the opening which. I I have a bit of a trigger warning in that mine does involve Oh the sexual assault in it there is a sexual assault but when you read the Bible guess what you're going to get. It's the Bible. Well, I'm starting things out with. A utterly pointless prank that that exploded all over the world i. became something. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah and I am as I as we mentioned before going to read from the bad book. Yup and I am going to talk about boundaries, how the fuck do they work and so. Let's just let's just run right into this mess. Let's. Dan Yes. You know there's an old saying. I do know that there's an old saying that the corn is as high as an elephants I. On July I think is that by the by by the way? If not the latest, the speed dispirit is there. It's as high as elvin tie and it looks like it's climbing clear up to the sky. Good I knew I could rely on you for a first Equa Homa referencing Oklahoma Oklahoma. Oklahoma I literally get. So says you there may have been mammoths at one point according to the book of Mormon. There were elephants in in Oklahoma. Exactly. So your wrong and that pre, which is garden of of the Garden of Eden adjacent. So. Yeah exactly just south match love. Well. I guess I'll just take it. What are you start doing your thing anytime you want to start doug that's right. Oh, this goddamn corona virus is forced to all to figure out different ways to communicate. To test new technologies and and get good at things that we didn't even know existed six months ago mostly what this has led to is pants lowest business meetings and a Supreme Court justice taking a dump during oral arguments. However, what's et a Supreme Court justice did that you didn't hear you didn't hear that. No I didn't eat the true. Guys. Where have you been during oral arguments that were being done over the conference call somebody flushed the toilet. Of the United States Supreme Court of the United. States. Supreme. Court Oh my God this woman did a deep dive trying to figure out who it wasn't. She thinks it was just a suitor. Really. I would have put money on. Well. No I was GONNA I was GONNA say Thomas, but he was asleep he couldn't have done it. US totally sleep. Maybe it was the the ghost of Scalia. Contributing as much as he did. Exactly fucking. Toilet. Oh Yeah. That happened and we all learned new things about ourselves. Definitely better co workers, houses and apartments and attention hogging cats. We've become masters of your your go to meetings, emails, conference calls texts, even using facebook, twitter, and instagram to communicate in new ways. Well uncles. It may surprise you to know that none of these were the first form of mass long range communication. I'm old enough to remember when my family only had one telephone. You remember those days oh. Yeah. I was literally does thinking about that. The other day about how like a no misuse we used to want to get the phone young people won't understand this, but we would run. Run when the phone rang to be the person to say, Hello Yeah, it was it was it was the best thing in the world yeah and it says if bad news never came in the seventies, right? And I'm old enough to I don't know if you guys know this. But when I was a kid, you didn't own the phone. We leased it from. From bell or whomever the own the monopoly was we? saw. Yeah you didn't it. That's so Brazil. Isn't it? It's like you don't even own your phone with very weird. So yeah, I, mean I remember when you know that was the the main form of mass communication, and of course, I'm old enough to remember the world changing breakthrough in tactile long range communication that was hands across. America. has never been the same no, it changed everything. Didn't it? Well, fortunately now we have the world peace because of it. So that was. What was the cause I don't even remember? I don't even know what was. It was just hippy dippy I think. Yeah. Yeah. Well, however, today to talk about a form of long range communication that is without a doubt far more glutinous and for dumber than any, we've mentioned so far today I want to talk about crop circles. So if you're fifty five or over crop circles are those things on the cover of the led Zeppelin. Re. Masters. Over forty. If you're over forty there, those things from that stupid stumble movie signs, and if you're under thirty led Zeppelin was a rock band night Shamlan movie director and crops with those things your parents used to eat in the before times. We've none of that rings a bell well, then come with you to a different and if you can believe it more gullible time in place than than our current moment in one hundred percent don't. Care about possible the places Wilshire England the time is is summer nineteen, sixty seven. The New Age movement was in full swing crystal futures were through the roof. Caravans of credulous white people were streaming from all over the world to the California desert and towels New Mexico. The Daily News was lousy with stories of mystical energy, strange occurrences, alien sightings, and worst of all silly love songs by Paul McCartney and wings was on top of the charts it was time. It was in this bizarre time that a farmer in southern. England, walked out to I. Don't know personally inseminate his flock. I don't know what farmers do. And saw a perfect circle of flattened barley in the center of his field causing him to extreme exclaim the immortal words are mcchord. It's hard to overstate how big a deal this was in the pre goop world. Not least because Wilshire was already one of the epicenters of the new age movement, this is after all the home of Stonehenge. One of the world's premier hinges. Yeah. As well as the stone probably the best hand I would don't it's in the top ten it's in the top ten. I'd give top three, four shore. Right. Reading, disagree. This is also the home of the stone circles of burry which are to this day thought to be connected with laylines which uncle Dan talked about back in episode one fifty suck it and the giant hill figures of Sern and Wilmington. So this place is you know Big Deal to new age and was a big deal to the new age movement. So. What would later be coined crop circles began showing up all over southern England and overnight became a global sensation leading almost as quickly to a new science. On. The science of crop circles no. Yes. Word. You use spell it with quotation marks around it exactly. How do you spell it like? Well, that's funny. It sounds like cereal it C. E. R.. G. And it's It's named after the Roman Goddess of Agriculture, series right, and not from the fact that the science the medium of this science is cereal grains. Make more sense would. So hoping that was I well to be fair cereal derives its name from the same goddess. So you know there's we are. So this dovetailed perfectly with the science of UFOLOGY or UFO. UFOLOGY YOUR Follow Who? Who Foggy? because he's crop circles were immediately identified as UFO, landing sites, and remember this was in the height of the alien abduction cattle mutilation frenzy that was going around the world right before long crop circles began popping up in Australia Canada, the US and other places around the world. Now, before we Austrailia did they swirl the other way. It's a fair question. I'm, not a serial adjust but. Think. About this. I would be so happy to find out that that was true that the. Doing the other way. Coriolis effect applies so funny before we delve into who or what was causing these and what what could possibly mean. Let's give a little more context to them which will help explain how they became such a perfect snare for the weak minded. As early as the seventeenth century in England, there was a phenomenon called fairy rings which were caused by fungi in which Kinda left around dead area in fields of crops. Then in sixteen seventy, eight, a pamphlet was published. Call the called the mowing devil. In Hartford Scheider. I want the pamphlet. It's so cute. Look it up. It's really funny and Pronounce Devil Devil of course it is. The told the story of a farmer who balked at the local mowing fees which I didn't know her thing. It's the ammon Bundy of its time. So he stated that rather have the devil do it then the devil cut is field which in the dead of night he did I see the pamphlet, it's wonderful. There's a little devil mowing the lawn. This is believed to be the first story of a crop circle. However, it's worth noting that the wheat in this case was cut not bent. As is the case in modern crop circles. Suggest to nineteen sixties when ufo sightings were all the rage so much so that Jimmy Carter claimed to have seen one. The stories began to circulate about alien landing sites, which in some cases, left flatten circles and fields no corroboration of course existed but rumours of these saucer nests began to become very widespread. Then in nineteen seventy, four, the movie phase for was released the only film directed by Saul Bass by the way. Really Yeah if you. Titled Designer Yeah Almost. Every movie poster of the Arrow was was drawn by Saul Bass Yeah and he made any did titles title sequence. Exact. Gorgeous Yeah Yup. Yup the movie was about a deadly invasion of ants controlled by aliens from. Outer. Space. And sported not one but two tag lines the first was the day the Earth was turned into a cemetery. and. Right off the. A little clunky, but we'll. We'll give that was close. How about the second one ravenous invaders controlled by a tear out in space commanded to annihilate the world. Rolls Right off the time. The only notable thing about this movie, it contains the first known depiction of a saucer nest. Then, in the summer of Nineteen, seventy-six, actual saucer nest began to appear actual in the sense that you could walk to one gaze upon it, and even step inside to soak up residual energy that might be left behind and boy did people line up to do just that? Yeah. Because if something that traveled across the university is likely highly radioactive exactly. That's what you WanNa do is get some yet in there we'll isn't that the plot of cocoon. It is. That's true. Yeah. That's what gave him the the Blue Steel Boehner. Sequel to that movie the. Farmers were ecstatic to lose a few percentages of an acre of crops to be able to charge a farthing or to let people wander around. What was causing these increasingly more complex patterns theories ran the gamut from the stupid to the crazy They were signs of alien landing craft. They were messages from one alien craft to another surely the dumbest form of communication. They were. Telling us to leave her alone Were focal points of the Earth's magnetic field you name it somebody believed it. The aforementioned. Syria. Maintain that steel cannot burn that hot. Oh, sorry that that we that we cannot bend like that and only microwaves could account for such a phenomenon. More scientifically minded people sought more logical explanations such as I or possibly in the case of Australian circles a Willy Willy, which is apparently Australian for Dust Devil. Or even even possibly, and I am not making this up crazed Tasmanian wallabies high of opium poppies running in circles. My buddies. I love Australia. I. If we're ever allowed to travel again, let's let's do a live show in Australia. But like for people is big English. They literally have a different word for everything. Works. It's like it's like A. Country whose language was written by Dr Seuss. Movie. So my favorite explanation was meteorologist killed by a dust. Devil there does is cause of death say Certificate, I mean people die of dust devils in the US. You'd be surprised probably although you've just made it a life goal of mine to die of. Australia surprised the government's keeping big weather's keeping a lid on it. So my favorite explanation, just ensure number of of syllables was meteorologist terrence maiden who in nineteen eighty blamed electro magneto hydrodynamic plasma vortices. Yes Zach CLASSIC OPRAH THE USUAL SUSPECTS Always, the one. Guy. Gets it. The Kaiser. So say of crops. It bears mentioning that actual scientists at the time among them Stephen Hawking and Carl Sagan immediately recognized these is complete hoaxes and tried to stop people from falling for them. This frenzy continued unabated through that throughout the nineteen eighties tell Nineteen ninety-one when two venerable gentlemen from Wilshire came out and declared that it had been them all along. It turns out that these proper Englishman Doug Bauer and David Charlie are the mowing devil. That's right. They were enjoying a pint in nineteen, seventy six and over there. Terrible English beer. Sorry England it's true. No, it's good. Don't don't listen to him. It's too warm. That's what I'd like I'd like a warmer and less bubbles please I'd really like to savor the taste of this terrible beer you need to learn to appreciate an Ale? Anyway. They were shaking their heads at the stupidity of the New Age Movement when Bauer said to Charlie quotes let's go over and make it look like a flying saucer has landed. From humble origins is really. So they procured a rope and board in less than an hour unleashed a plague of stupid on the world that persist to this day. Yeah. Is Genius Little Monkey wrenching they did and the thing is if you believe that because as we all actually, no yes aliens just paid them to say. Big Willy Willy wants you to believe A. This funny thing about these two guys is you think of pranksters you're probably thinking of the Yes. Men or the Jerky boys or something like that. These are two of the most like Prim and proper. Englishman are they young like Stuffy Aristocratic Englishman but they just had one too many pints said. They're, GONNA fuck with everybody. I don't think they realized what they were unleashing but hey, go. So even though they confessed and on camera show the world how it was done the dirt paste was out of the tube and there was no stopping it. Yeah. I, exactly said like any conspiracy theory just know that doesn't prove anything anything. Any counter evidence is evidence. Exactly. A lack of evidence just shows how deep it goes. although do confession in the fact that youtube is chock full videos of people making crop circles, they have faded from the forefront of most mystical minded people however. There are still many people who believe in their they're kind of mystic or this is after all the age of. And Gwen of ultra so. With, the addition of GPS and lasers crop circles we're going to find out eventually the Gwyneth is Q.. Shot fucking funny. That would be. that. would be worth it. Just a giant marketing campaign I don't ask for a lot I just need this. And she's the mowing devil. With the addition of GPS and lasers crop circles have taken on incredible complexity. In the last several years, you should look just do a google search. The Hannah's how Dana's. Trading so beautiful beautiful. Yeah. With simple circles, giving way to fractionals portrait's and even corporate logos and even still people worship them so and before you ask yes. Yes. There are crop circle penises. So yeah any penises? There are so many crop circle penises that I'm shocked Ammon Bundy and his merry band of Ding dongs have not occupied a farm in Iowa. Four as it says for, as it says in seventy five chapter, nine verse to fourteen quotes whether are large penises there you will find. For Low though I walk through the Valley of the shadow of Girth, I shall fear no foreskin for the art, my Rod, and my staff hold firm to the Iron Rod Penis So. Let's. That's true. All. Yeah. That's one of my favorite when they read that in conference. Very Spirit. Of all the explanations theories, crop circles none are better than that of the unnamed ufo expert played by David Cross. Can Christopher guest near perfect film waiting for Guffman while standing outside crop. Circle near Blaine Missouri quote. I've been coming out to this landing site every day for two years to measure it, and here's the thing the circumference and diameter changed a few inches yet the radius remains the same. With me back to the number five, there are five letters in the name Blaine bear six mix up. Mix Up the word Blaine mix it around and eventually get Nepali Nepali the name of the planet in a galaxy. Way. Way Way Far Away. I'll tell you another thing. Once you step inside the circle, the weather never changes. It's always sixty seven degrees with a forty percent chance of rain. Oh so there you have it a prank gone wrong I don't think anybody's been killed by crop circles except for Mel Gibson's career. I I am telling you that is if you think gun, right. Exactly. What you want do you really think that crop circles made made Mel Gibson and antisemitic drunk is that what you're saying so We've just. To bring this conspiracy theory to the Jews. Does your take many steps. I'm sure the mowing devil was accused of being joining. Your nose. Well that was that was some delicious reality. Great Great Aid derp. So yeah right. I. Get aboard and a rope and get out into your neighbor's field go and ruin somebody's crops scared no reason right. But fly out of here. You know Uncle Doug I am here they say there was a secret cord. Who's they that David played and it pleased the Lord I'm very musical today for some. Time does that from is that from something? From, it's from the Song Hallelujah. Yeah. and that's all I know about that story. On Yep move. Exactly, limitations of Mark's musical knowledge. Well, we've we listen guys. We've covered a lot of David story in the Bible. We we've talked about his his secret cute love affair when back when he was a a cord plan lubes tweak loot boy. Yeah. Had that lovely lovely affair with with Jonathan But. We haven't covered everything. In his story, we did cover his the sexy dance in front of the ARC. Covered a lot of. which is we are two stories in the Bible does. Everything's a weird story in the Bible true So yes, I dug keeps trying to tell us about the New Testament, but I say, that's premature. How can the New Testament make any sense when we don't have a solid understanding of the foundation? Hey, text is built the New Testament. It's what's new. Yes and what a shitty marshy stink hole of foundation it is so. You know. Wonders actually. If Jesus wasn't God's I attempted starting a Messianic New testament all the other Gods said, it was daft to build a new testament in a swamp, but he built one all the same. It sank into the swamp. So he built a second one that sink into the swamp. He builds a third one that one burned down fell over and then sink into the swamp but a fourth Messiah stood. Anyway. I WANNA go back to second Samuel. Two, Samuel for my any Maga listeners who said. Own. Game Yeah exactly. When when we last left, second Samuel in episode forty Uncle Doug had taken us through the story of one of the bibles few genuinely good guys Urawa the hittite. who was then married to Bethsheba? Get for being a good guy. Oh. Yeah It didn't go well. As a quick reminder. Your was a soldier in King David's Army. You won't find a more loyal soldier and all the land but David happened to see your wife Bath Sheba's boobs one time, and so he had killed so that could keep keep her for himself. So because he's the good guy yeah, exactly. Sucks to be you. Yeah Anyway now. To its credit I gotta say, this is one of the rare instances where the Bible actually explicitly says that something horrible that one of its main has done was in fact. Bad Shocking though may be in the chapter after that whole mess happened Nathan. A prophet of the Lord comes to David and actually tells him that what he did was wrong. Now considering this books track record on condemning bad things. I'm genuinely impressed by them. Yeah. Mind, you. Come right out and say it so you don't. You don't you know last long as a prophet if you make a habit of telling kings ship bags no. So he tells the most pathetic story about a rich man poor man who lived in a town the rich man had lots of sheep's and cow's the poor man had nothing. But a single baby sheep to his name. He loved that sheep so much. He read that sheep from his own bowl and they drink from the same cup he even spooned with the sheep to get to sleep. Okay Yeah I, mean it stopped short. They're so good. then. One day traveler comes to the rich man popular story in Wyoming. It does well, do it didn't do it. Right I didn't either. But you know this somebody's got a spike that set anyway. The rich man doesn't want to feed the traveler from his own flocks. So he takes the poor man's sheep and kills it and feeds it to the traveler, which is a dick move. Now this is a bit of a clumsy metaphor for what David did to your idea but because the Bible is terrible at time, we have to remember that this was a while after that all that stuff happened by now David had married Bethsheba and she had already borne him a son a son whose name mysteriously was not given. So. When David here's Nathan. Story about the theft the beloved sheep he gets furious that rich guys Dick as should be put to death at which point Nathan says dude, it's you you remember but instead of killing the sheep, you killed the poor guy in fucked the sheep. Crowd that didn't sound right I mean that you had the poor guy killed for you by hanging him out to dry on the field of battle and you took the sheep and married it anyway. The Lord's pissed is the answer. So boom chalk one up for the Bible it actually got. moral. Correct I love that moment where David surrounding error. I love the moment where David's like. So what you're saying is What I did was wrong. Yeah. To to which he responded. Yes. Don't worry though that won't become a trend the Bible continue to get CORREC-. And what is God's punishment for all of this you guessed it unnamed son takes ill and dies, which is sad. But considering the fact that David had no fewer than ten wives in fact, he probably outweigh more than that. Most of whom bore him plenty of kids. One kid down was kind of a drop in the bucket. Really. Yeah and was event as was by the fact that David Begged God not to take his son and fasted and prayed and his clothes and wept and wailed. But then when he was told that the kid died, he stood up and went to dinner. When is when a servants asked about that? He literally said this is a quote. While the child was alive I fasted and wept and I thought who knows maybe the Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live. But now that he's dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back? We pass pepper. Thanks. Well, so he's got. If you consider that in Bible time your your baby was. More. Likely to die than live right right it. Why even include the story? Why even include the story should be the motto of the book is I am going to continue telling a whole bunch of why even include the story I. Love It. So, David was one offspring down but he definitely had plenty he had planted plenty of seeds. So he was not wanting for progeny. So let's talk about the other children of David, but we won't go into his most famous child wise king. Solomon since we covered his best business read most horrifying idiotic. BACK IN EPISODE FORTY THREE Instead. We'll go to the next chapter of Second Samuel Lucky chapter thirteen but before we do. Can I take a minute to say that the Bible is just a Shitty book. I'm not talking about the morality of it and the fact that the main character God is a bundle of contradictions that make it all absurd on its face look. So many people have told me that even if I don't believe that it's true, the Bible is still great literature. faulk. that. is so garbage how can you call a book? Great Literature Win it spends page after page on mind numbing lists of WHO Begat. And Chapter after chapter on whether you can or can't eat weasels but then won't. Then when it comes time to tell an actual story, it breaks every rule of decent storytelling. Yeah. No back story no setup at all no world building whatsoever just launching with bare facts and string those bags together with the thinnest of threads. Yeah or hell why does a story after make any sense at all just say thing happened gives us no reason why you told us and move onto the next inexplicable nonsense with the details of maybe a police report like society sparse. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry just. Just needed to rant that was APP. Was Apropos absolutely nothing anyway. Davidson Amnon fell in love with his sister. Surprise? Yeah. Well, yeah. Which is exactly how chapter thirteen launches. It just is like, Hey, this happened. Well. So so did Adam if you think about it, right there you go. Well, that was like clone out of love with his his trans clone. That's right. Anyway. So this was his half sister. They had different moms but we're both both were David's kids. So tomorrow, the object of Amens lust was the whole sister. Of Absalom Absalom was the third son of King David by Maka who was David's maybe fish wife hard to tell. Anyway, he certainly wasn't anybody special in the line up except maybe that he was hot like super sexy great hair. Anyway, am Amnon became obsessed with Tamar and his lust was so crazed that he literally made himself sick but you know they were half siblings so he couldn't really have her apparently there were some rules back then about what a woman What what woman a son of a king can have go figure. So, Amnon went to his adviser John Dab who is described as quote a very shrewd man so good he brought in a smart guy to help out and Jonah Dab didn't disappoint he devised a brilliant plot. He told Amnon to pretend to be ill and when dad comes to see him, request that Tamar come in and bake him some bread. You know they're in the room where he could see her and nobody would think that's weird because as we all know, there's no better medicine than watching someone bake. Amnon could trust that she feed him the bread. So. That's it. That was the big plan. It's entirely unclear what this was supposed to accomplish the timeless art of Seduction, right? Exactly. It's a yeah. I'm frequently mystified by the rules of the ancient Middle East. So I kept waiting for the moment when John Dab would say, and then once you've seen her make bread, she may she may be eligible for you to marry based on the law of wheat or Then when she has tended to see you, you may claim nurses privilege and Mary her or something. No the whole plan that was deemed important enough to put in the fucking. Bible seems to have been a ruse just to beat in the same room with her for a while we'll don't note king shame I mean I'm sure there's a porn channel for baking. I'm just saying for lower yeah. Yeah. I mean who is Of course, there's one for. Any all I'm saying is that middle school boys have more foresight than that when they're cooking up schemes and Idiots I know I was one. Literature Anyway the plan goes off without a hitch. He fakes sick and gets to watch her bake. Amazing. But. Maybe there was one little hitch oddly waiting for bread didn't turn out to be the very satisfying outcome for Amnon who who predicted that. So he did what any Bible character would do in that situation he anybody grapes sister. Oh. Yeah And then when that was done. He suddenly hated her so great. Here's the. Often, how young love kind of flourishes senior That would've worked anyway. Here's the actual verse. Quote. Then Amnon hated her exceedingly so that the hatred where he hated her was greater than the love where with he had loved her. Literature you're right. Yeah. The poetry. And the moral course. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then he He. Amnon, said onto her arise be gone. Now you might think that rising and being gone would be exactly what a woman who had just been raped by her brother would want to do but no those wacky ancient Middle Eastern rules kicked in and when you're a woman in the Middle East ancient or otherwise there's a really good chance. Those rules won't work out well for you. Not that I actually understand what the rules were. All I know is that when Amnon told Tamar to leave, she begged him not to kick her out saying quote. Sending me away would be a greater wrong. Then what you have already done to me so Ohio. No. But Amnon summoned to servant because it's rude. Like that's just screwed. Look, you're being bad host. It's one. It's one thing to rape a person but to be a bad host, the bread still in the oven. You said, I could watch TV. So. So yeah. He he had thrown out. Having, suffered both of those disgraces I rape, and then the much worse thing of being forced to leave the room weather, her rapist was. She tore her ornate princess dress and smeared ash on her face and put her hands on her head and went away weeping loudly. Brother. Her other brother, her whole brother ob Salaam. comforted. Her by saying quote. Be Quiet for now my sister he is your brother don't take this thing to heart. Lesson from the Bible when calm comforting a rape victim tell them not to worry about it. Boy Men have always been shit yeah yeah. We are not good. No So we have we have proof just. Just chill Jeez. But. Did take her in and let her live with him a quote desolate woman. I would not be moving in with any more of my brothers at this point. Listen I'm not falling for baking bread thing again. Hey will you make? No? No, I won't I am now I I am now not Baker I'm a sous chef now. So. Their Dad David got real real real real mad when he heard about it so there's that I mean nothing actually happened but oh And Absalon totally gave 'em and the silent treatment. So there you go. Two years later though absalom US playing the long game, he brought in some shearers and had a huge sheep shearing party and invited all of his brothers I mean what this is this was going to be the biggest sharing party of the year. He wanted dad to come but dad said, no. But all the brothers came because that shearing was GONNA be lit. Then absalon had his men kill Amnon which was oh you no surprise. But turned out to be a huge bummer for the party and the DJ wasn't all that. Great. So all the other brothers had their valet bring their mules around and high tailed it out of their. King David I got the news about what happened from Breitbart which apparently reported the Cunanan had said that absalon had killed all of his sons. So it was pretty upset about that but then facebook linked to a fact check about it. From a better news source. So he calmed down a little bit, but he was still pretty upset for sure. So absolute jumped on his mighty mule and fled to tell my and chilled for a few years until his dad wasn't mad at him anymore, and then came back to Jerusalem. Eventually you get over murder. Yeah. I mean he gets it. There was that whole that whole. Dishonoring his sister sort of things. You know it it all plays out as it must. but things weren't likely to be. As they as they once were. Absalom came back but he's started rabble-rousing people would complain that David Wasn't hearing their disputes like a good judge of Israel should an absalon was fanning the flames of discontent? He was all my dad won't listen to you. So you can't get justice too bad. I'm not the guy I totally listen to you. He did this a lot Eventually, he had a bunch of supporters so many in fact that he declared himself the king, you went to Lebron, which was the former capital and he started a revolt against his dad. He even slept with his concubines switch. Family Inc this. Yeah and then and the people loved him like most of the people you gotta remember this is the sexy guy with the long hair. He was basically Middle Eastern Jason Momoa. So by the way when you said he slept with the concubines. Was it consensual. Does it matter? What is that is consent of thing. Bible. The consent is like for men. Women don't get that. Okay I can send. Let's do this. She's yeah. Think about bread. For you. Anyway. Handsome Devil that he is. It worked and he drove his dad into hiding with what few troops had stuck by him and absalom, became king but. David had spies in absolute court and they gave him bad advice which gave David Time to prep his forces, the final battle was approaching. Absalom and his army met David's army at the would of e from. This proved to be disastrous place to have a final showdown. The army's ready themselves. The war horns were blown and Absolu a striped astride his mighty steed mule charged into battle. Lower glorious hair triumphantly flowing behind him in sexy slow motion. Unfortunately those lovely locks of his got tangled in a tree and is. One running out from under him, leaving him dangling there by his hair. It's such a buster. Keaton moment isn't it? It really is I'm sorry if you're mule runs out from underneath you and your, you just put your feet down right No. Not In this case apparently, he was not tall enough for that hit unusually short legs and was just dangling there So you Kinda just hung there for a while until one of David's men found him. In that guy went and told one of the captains in David's army and they all went and Kinda just looked at him for a minute. 'til they figured out what to do about it. S Two story well, David had said not to kill Absalom. Absalom had been addict to that captain. So after he watched him struggle with that tree for awhile, he's stabbed him to death with three spurs to the heart. That'll do it. After that Everything? Just kind of went back to the way had been before all this mess and David was king. Again. He's satisfying ending to a gripping story. Again, why? WAS THAT WAS Fairly pointless. Does it impute like. What moral does it tell? Well, there's there's that whole thing about writing under a tree when you're got long hair so. Know if you guys have this when you're young and in shop class that show you those films about. You. Tuck your tie in because we've got is of course stuck. Before you operate the giant industrial metal lathe. And for you know ladies and shop class to pull their hair back. So I guess they didn't have those films sold their hair back and gather up their skirts. PETTICOATS. Center it they hadn't learned these lessons yet I do love the idea of him riding into battle on his donkey. Like his feet two inches above the ground. It was a mule, not a donkey they're. With that little truck. Wait comeback. God. Damn it. I'm just hang on I think I can get free I'll just move this over here. Oh, that's worse. Maybe. It's a lesson in the in the dangers of male vanity yeah. Every every longhaired guy we've talked about so far his hair has been his downfall should have cut like a red blooded. American, Boy Goddamn. That's you're right. That's how it should be nothing nothing. But who's the good guy in the story? Right like. The Guy got who raped his sister gets killed in the guy who kills him gets killed and David who killed Araya and raped Bethsheba is king. Again, you're back on top. Everything works out in the end. Yes. it's a beautiful story. So revered. And really guys it's not. It's not about like the let's not bicker and argue about who killed. It's mostly just about the poetry. Yeah. I feel like that's that's what we really need to focus, and then it gives way to pros and then it gives way to a strange list and that's All right. Well, let's Let's pull the object on this bullshit by Absalom by. Boys Fellow Hello listen I. DON'T WANNA I don't want to linger too long on this but we gotta pass the the collection plate around. Nearly eleven this is one of those things you know if all of those mega pastors can can do it then. So can we got damaged? So what what is the point of shaking my moneymaker if it doesn't make money? Yeah, exactly. So All y'all need to give us your goddamn money and some of Y'all have done so and we owe some thanks so. Thank you so much to Denise Nicole glowering the deceiver? Jove and Arsenault. You guys are amazing. You're the wind beneath our wings, your the gas in our engine and beneath our knees, and if you listener who isn't one of them would like to join them in the in the noble quest of giving us money I think you ought to and the way to do it is to go to heretic dot com and click on the support thing and and there are ways to support us and we love it. and. If you don't have you know if if you're on the P P P or whatever, and you don't have a lot of money to give us that's fine too. But go and write a review. We're not I'm not calling for stars this time I'm saying, yes, you have to give us five stars but also, but also writer review that says Nice things about us so that other people can find us and that's helpful to. And really the stars do help and if you if you have an opportunity to do it, it's it has a lot to do with maths and. Algorithm something called algorithms yes. So do that for us. We love you. That's like a digital kiss across the ether and we consent. Yes. So thanks so much you guys. Let's move on. Pan Doug Hello. Show me your penis. Here you go. Wow, you have no boundaries. No. Believe me. It was already out. Well, that's true. Are Any of his wearing clothes at this moment? I'm wearing intimate night things. So I guess that lingerie is closed. Yes. I've said to you. If I'm not if I'm not mistaken for the lacy stuff, which I think is a class. Thank you. I'm very traditional that way. So. I was trying, I was trying to step on uncle boundaries but apparently, those don't exist on mark you may need to teach us a little. Just, Pena's away. No. No you mean up leave it up. If you put it away in the same room, you're sitting in then yes. Getting sunburned. So anyway, you know what guys I`ve I've really been looking at both sides of the argument weighing the evidence listening to the experts doing a little soul searching taking a long hard look in the mirror and I've decided it's time to build the wall. Oh Yeah Oh my page. Usually chanted did you think I was talking about Hitler's racist dog whistle while that is goons used to fleece. Bigoted dopes out of twenty, five million bucks and they could buy boats and villas in Italy I was hoping you were saying but not bill linear inch the actual wall no good. Gracious. Fuck that Shit. I thought we were getting on the ground floor of phase two. New. New. Leaders Underneath. Yeah exactly. Twenty, five, million that's for us now so. Let me be more precise rather than walls. I'm all for building a more semi permeable demarcation. That may allow some to pass through but not others but when clearly marked for anyone venturing close to see, let's call it boundary. Okay okay guys I would hazard a guess. That more than funny hats, magic underpants, tales of never seen. But for sure real miraculous happenings shared in their congregations one of the most common issues shared by any and all of our friends and listeners out there is trouble with personal boundaries. Yeah. In the modern parlance, personal boundaries are limitations people place. On what they're willing to do or endure vis-a-vis other people. Even those people are family friends or intimate partners. Boundaries are good and healthy, and ultimately reduce stress and lead to better relationships regardless of what sort of relationship is. Boundaries are things normal people have but we are not normal. Are We? At. Its or at least we weren't raised normal. Totally. So it's not just that we three total factory defects, but most of or all of our listeners who came out of a high demand or even moderately fucked up religious experience. But. Why is this the case? Normal Sane parents unbothered by fears of Hell and panic attacks about their toddler children's chastity start allowing certain boundaries to develop as their children mature. Sure, when your baby and you yourself five times a day and eat lunch from. Close relatives teat. There aren't really any boundaries speak of, but as kids get older non religiously deranged parents may allow certain milestones of privacy to develop. Never. Blake never violating a serious level of trust by reading their diary allowing the bedroom door to be shut not embarrassing them by kissing them when they dropped them off at school and these moments can be really hard for loving parents. But they know they're teaching their young charges that they have the right to privacy and dignity and bodily autonomy. But if like like suckers. Idiots would you teach that? But if like me and Doug, you were raised by sex panic hysterical religious Zena phobes these ideas were never really instilled you. In fact quite the opposite. Many of us are taught from our earliest cognition that we have none of those rights. The idea of them even existing in abstract is inconceivable to those raised in high demand or cultish environments. A good parenting good parenting. Doug were we ever allowed to chew to close our bedroom door? No. Did you possess a single object or square inch of space that was off limits to constant invasion and confiscation buyer saintly para? nope. We had our rooms tossed on the regular. Yeah they seriously like a prison, they would tie wardens would up yet. And let's just take the Mormon example. Just. Before the age of eight a lifelong series of one on one interviews with your warm bishop begins they're usually twice-yearly and continue throughout your entire life. Mormon bishops in less by some corker professional happenstance do not have any experience or training in child and family therapy. At risk or endangered children or anything of the sort. They are lay clergy called up for a few years at a time to serve in the role, and they're normally they don't really have full-time jobs as lawyers, car salesman or dentists or whatever. And from the waning days of age seven, they are part of a larger community effort to groom children to never expect to have boundaries in their lives. Yeah. I use the word grooming very intentionally a word normally used to describe how pedophile develop their targets. Yup, this is a very similar behavior instructing children, pre adolescents and adolescents that they have. No Right to privacy that their bodies are not remotely their own business. And even their emotions and fantasies are to be presented to an adult authority on demand. By. Early early adolescence bishops interviews are nightmarishly pointed. And should be legally way out of bounds asking unaccompanied children about masturbation sexual fantasies, as well as a host of other probing. Quote moral inquiries right totally and then and also like just as a quick aside from my own life reading each other out oh. Yeah. Sure, you're literally like, yeah, it's it's. It's about as bad as as and and. Violating, it can get anything you tell that bishop you can one hundred percent expect is going to be in your. By the time you walk home, your parents are going to know about it. And then after that. Mormon boys and very often girls than spent two years on a mission sleeping in the same room with the random companion showering with the door open and just maybe get to close it when they're taking a shit. And prior to that in middle school and high school dating a highly scrutinized pantomime normal developmental sexuality if allowed at all. What one can read watch or listen to is more tightly controlled than the purchase of automatic weapons, which is, of course encouraged. If, you're stupid enough to keep a diary in a Mormon household be prepared for that to be be read on your. For Your Bishop to bring it up on your next mandatory interview Oh my God right. Totally. Mormon Home Teachers essentially a couple of appointed spies. Will show up at your home in announced throughout your entire life insisting whatever's going on stop and you indulge their presence and prying until they endeavored to leave an hour or so later, we we should really do a deeper dive into that phenomenon sometime I hated his itching. It reminds me nothing less than when in the movie when like the the the the secret police in the Soviet Union come by Your House yeah and they come in and just they're just looking at everything you got a pen in their kind of pushing things around with. Total, that's really funny. 'CAUSE I. I was always oblivious to that side of things and I it was always just you know nice guys would come over to your house and they'd smile and your parents would smile and love them and they everybody would shake hands and you'd pray and it was boring but like It always I never. Of anything nefarious from it but looking back on it, I can see that like, yeah, there was there was a lot. I mean mormonism was all about reporting on each other on the self it was all a sniff everything was snitch. Yeah and so I mean and it wasn't like they were trained. You were just program this way from youth and I don't mean to derail this just really quick like. You would look and see VCR Videotape collection was to see if there are any R. rated movies. Yeah. Just kind of program that way. And actually we talked I talked rather surprised blanket angle a while back it was actually started. After the whatever the the Mormon what was it called Brigham Young came out here and made everybody get rebaptized right and then home teaching was started. Then basically have people spy on you right Really Nice of them. So Great. So continuing on large Mormon families will just show up in the Maxi. Van Unannounced. Wanting an evening's conversation and dinner. We even had dug it. I had out of town cousins that would be on the road and appear wanting to stay for a week without a phone call. Right. So not a fucking boundary and sight. So now by early adulthood, you've been trained and. Groomed not to even think of erecting so much as a speed bump between illegitimate authority and your inner self nothing is off limits. To those who feel empowered to take from you not your bedroom and what goes on in it not your finances, not your politics, not your fantasies, your doubts. Your emotional and even physical labor and your precious time. All that is to be surrendered on demand when an authority figures says so. Well, that's fucking horrible. Well. These examples have a distinctly Mormon flavor that flavor being a Campbell's cream of mushroom soup based casserole. I reckon these sorts of coercion and intrusions are very familiar to our excellent Jellicoe, J. W. and exit adventist listeners, etc.. So, now we find ourselves setup and groomed for a lifetime of getting trampled exhausted lectured lectured and essentially stolen from by should people or maybe even not. So shitty like parents who came out of the same pattern of abuse and conditioning and don't realize how intrusive emotionally vandalizing there being right right. We didn't know that we have the ability to say, no well, the highest authority in your life tells you that's how it's supposed to be your from childhood. And your parents reinforce it and your grandparents reinforce it and your neighbors reinforce it so. But now that we're adults and we've left the religious institutions that groomed us for this life of compliance behind. and. For the most part of the houses of the parents who were actively complicit in this quote loving act of sabotage. And we're out in the real world. Let's talk about building that fucking wall. Shall We? Yeah because now we're the most authorities in all of our listeners lives so. They have to listen to us. So I need to know everything about what's going on in the bedroom. So. How do we start well speaking from experience it ain't easy. especially with friends and family still in whatever anti boundary controlling tradition you've left. For me and Doug, and again, ours is an extreme case after years of trying. The. Only boundaries are daily boundary. Our immediate family would even partially respect was total removal from our lives. But Doug contested by that was after a thousand attempts to establish some level of respect that that ultimately could not and would not muster. and that's what a boundary actually is. It's a frontier of respect that you have a right to demand and enforce. Sense religious parents and family never even understood the concept. Grabbing the wheel of Inter family relationships and jerking it away from the expressway to crazy town is extremely difficult. You will be met with resistance. So you know you're attempting to modify the ordained order of your pious butt dysfunctional family. To literally up and God's designed for how the mindless cogs are meant to function in the machine. Religion. Teaches people to be coercive passive, aggressive, manipulative, emotionally dishonest, and to see the world as A. To the death battle of good and evil, they will deploy all those offenses and defenses to maintain their control over you and their access to your time and labor. If you need to create a defensive boundary for yourself from my experience and everything I've read. I suggest you make it a well marked frontier rather than a concealed tripwire. Yes, and that means having hard conversation very openly. Having hard conversations with people whom despite their thoughtless aggressions you still want in your life. As with pretty much everything, we ever discussed in the post religious world that will very much require you to be the bigger person. And to do yet more emotional labor to keep your head about you through this process yup they will try to make you feel guilty exasperated to try to make you lose control, etc.. If you want them in your life and you want some freedom and emotional health you can't give into any of that. So firstly remember you're not trying to change them. You most likely can't. So don't even try. You're trying to change what you will tolerate from them in your presence. Essentially, you're changing your environment, right? Yeah. You're putting down your boundary, not boundary for them but a boundary that is yours and yours you're building room in which you can rest essentially right? And pursue whatever whatever you determine your interests and direction in life are without their interference in their judgment and they're unsolicited input. So that means with all the love of Jesus and the patience of job as kindly, and calmly as you can let them know how how you are willing to engage in how you're not. And what will occur if they've and what will occur if they violate your extremely reasonable requirements for further interaction, for example, right? If they try to re proselytize. You say you will leave Sunday dinner and go home. If they try to coerce your children against your wishes, which is really common thing in the postal movements world right holding. You can restrict access to the grandchildren if you have that ability if they talk shit about your significant other, let them know you know. You're taking a year off the holidays with them unless they apologized and promised not to do it again. In a way you're training a dog, right? I know that sounds really mean but no, a dog just wants what it wants whenever it wants it. Right Boundaries don't even exist if you're clear consistent and measured, and of course, swap them over the nose with loosely rolled newspaper when they're bad. And then you reward them with your time and presence when they comply well, even a Mormon parents can learn to be respectful over the course of a few dozen decades right? So. Remember I've seen it happen. It's it's possible. Remember despite what we were taught our parents don't us. They didn't the day you were born and they certainly don't. Now if they want the adult you in their lives and perhaps their grandchildren's lives as well. They should have to respect your reasonable reasonable demands and preserve to preserve your mental and emotional health and your time and energy. You may find over time that they can't, and then you can decide if you want them in your life at all and for a long discussion on that, you can go back to episode one Oh three where we talked about. Familial estrangement and how that gets a bad rap. But the other thing is boundaries can also change over time. Right if a person gains your trust by respecting you in the limits you place on an interaction, you can choose to loosen up and give them more room. And the opposite is also true if someone keep taking. When you've asked them not to, you can further restrict how much physical and emotional presence you allow them. It ain't easy especially in a relationship that has a long history, but I really think over the long term, you'll be much much happier. And this this applies to all relationships not just parent adult child wants right friends and siblings and roommates and podcasts, partners and neighbours and. And Work Friendships. Friendships etc.. You're right to take care of yourself to expend emotional and physical energy for whom you choose and when you choose. A right to declare certain topics or conversations off limits, and you have a right to demand that you your partner and your life choices will not be subject to shaming. Other people also have a right to tell you to go jump in a lake again you. Reevaluate having these people in your life. Right. Yeah because this isn't about like you get to say something and then they don't get to do anything about it. This is just you get to decide what you are willing to do. Yeah and they get decide what they're willing to do, and if those two things don't match up or if there's a if if there's some sort of a problem between them. Then your recourse is to not be a part of it anymore. Yeah. An inconsistency really matters in these in these circumstances I find very much. So yeah. So now there's a flipside to having grown up in a world with personal boundaries. For a lot of when we finally escape whatever orthodoxy trained us not only to not have our own boundaries but also not to like ourselves very much. Paraphrasing our friend Lauren O.`Neil from last week show. The possibility of being liked by people from outside, our experiences can be pretty fucking thrilling, right? it's like going from seeing black and white to seeing and full color all of a sudden. When it started happening for me Lord I was a kid in a candy store. If there was a boundary violation, I was guilty of for Oh probably a decade or so after I got out was over sharing. No mark the woman next to you on the bus does not want to hear your life story in real time. No Mark, the new friends you made at the party is not ready for the two hundred page mental police report about all the child abuse you suffered just yet right? and. It takes a long time to see and understand that people have comfort levels and boundaries. And to learn to see the cues, they use to tell us we've wandered into the red zone like crossed arms and looking around excessively lots of. Looking at their watch more than once right So it takes some time to learn how to know when someone is ready for that kind of friendship. And when someone is maybe more of a casual friend who maybe can't or isn't interested in emotional labor required to carry your cross for awhile. And you will have both kinds of friends, right? Sure. The key is listening to people in those moments and look for the cues of discomfort or or a sense of panic like they would very much like to hit the eject now. please. Another boundary I finally realized I needed I needed for myself after being taken advantage of by some emotional thieves. Was the incredible realization that I didn't have to like everybody that I came that came across my threshold. Doug laughing knows that period of my life where I had allowed to many people in. And then realize that quite a few of them were just taking advantage of my desperate need to be liked. And they were bleeding dry right on several fronts. So obviously, I've gotten over that now. I don't care if anybody likes me because nobody does but once I put up a bit more of a restriction on whom I would do what four. Where they're grumpy assholes absolutely did my life get a thousand times better my fucking God it did. Yeah. So there's a million ways to talk about boundaries because it's it's a complex issue but just to close out. Going to ask you guys what sort of experience you've had with bound learning to respect boundaries for yourself and in other people? Well I. It's it's. We certainly have. A unique perspective as you know as atheists because like you said we are. Very, few of us were young atheists are born atheist most of us became atheists side some point in our lives. So we all have experience with religious people and they're kind of. The boundaries that they have and they don't and they and they don't have. And you know we are oftentimes a minority at dinner parties or holidays. And so we're we're for those very reasons. We kind of have this very unique perspective on those boundaries. So what's appropriate to talk about what's not? All of them share those boundaries together and you're usually the outsider. That has to you know put down markers and have those difficult conversations and and have that really uncomfortable moment at dinner where you're like, I don't want this to be a subject anymore. Yeah. If it is I'M GONNA. Leave. So. I, think we've all Kinda gone through those moments. It's just we've talked about this quite a few times on the show that are boundaries have changed dramatically as we've come out of religion those of us who have whereas before you couldn't talk about certain books, certain movies, certain subjects, certain music, certain art forms, and now you can. but you know. You find yourself always kind of trying to modify your boundaries to accommodate the majority in this in this case. but I think it's very empowering when you finally say you know what the exactly to your point mark is. This is all I'm GONNA take. This is where I'm drying this eight taking no more right like I. Don't want you to proselytize to me anymore and I don't want you to talk to my kids about that stuff anymore and you know mean there's a true. it's hard and it can be very painful, but it's incredibly empowering. Yeah and especially in you know you've grown up in this family, you just think this is the way it's always gotta be. It doesn't right right and they're going to and they're going to complain and say. This isn't how we do it in and Blah Blah Blah, and they're going to feel horribly hurt and offended and I that, and that's and that's real for them. So it's not like you should just ignore that but you you can guide them through this process through the process of your boundaries being being sat down. And I and here's the thing it gets much easier as you go on the first few times can be just incredibly hard. Yup, and then as you go on their more used to you setting boundaries, your more brave about it because you've done it a few times and then it gets fun and it feels good and it feels strong and it feels great super empowering, and then you know especially with people really really want to keep in your life. It's it is an act of kindness. To, help them learn to be kind to to ask them to be kind to you. Yeah. Right and and. You're not being mean to them. You need to understand that you're not being mean to them by putting down your boundaries. You're actually being a kind because you're telling them where what what you are and aren't comfortable with explicitly so that they don't step on something they shouldn't, and and that look I could just walk away from you but I value you and I want you in my life, right? Right. and. This. Is True of Mormons and I think it's true most Christians they will be like velociraptor testing fences man so they will. Die Consistency and really putting your money where your mouth is say I will get up and walk out of here. I won't say this I really appreciate uncle mark the fact that you talked about also not violating other people's boundaries right? Because I can say that when I first left the religion and Took my first steps into learning that I was allowed to have boundaries other than what I had been taught I. Think I started and I've seen this phenomenon happened with people newly out of religion I stepped on a ton of people's boundaries. Just. I would just be like how atheist God is stupid. You're an idiot for believing it and Blah Blah Blah and like I I was I was being the Dick in that situation it's super common. It's a very common response to getting out of a high demand religion, right? Right yeah. So I mean I understand the impulse it's also nice to realize that like they have places to be too. And it's kind to be aware of other people's boundaries. Even if they haven't gone out of their way to make explicit, we look we can. We can play pictionary and we can play Jenga without needing to talk about geopolitics or religion or you know a swearing a lot. You know in front of people who don't like that it turns out that you can. You can enjoy each other's company. Yeah just. For the sake of each other and you doesn't. Have those conversations as long as you are right in your head with knowing, you're not trying to be provocative. Right. That you. You can't have the conversation if it gets too heated, you can say, okay, let's talk about something else but Dan's totally right. It's like you're not the only one with boundaries exactly, and you need to respect that people have a right to kind of a level of comfort in their own home and in their own life. That doesn't mean that they have the right to tell you how you have to be. So you know if. It's an it's a balancing act and that's the thing it's. At some point you know when I realized that I as a non no longer mormon person could say whatever fucking swear words I. wanted to say. I you know I felt there's this thing where you feel like. Well, I, I've learned that I have this, right? Yeah. How dare anybody tell you know ask me to Mon to monitor my language around them just because just because they're pussies about it or whatever doesn't mean I don't I have to watch what I say well, no, that's not how it works. Yeah. They have the right to to sort of put down their own boundaries and if their boundaries are that, it hurts them to hear certain words if you want to be around them. Respect, their boundaries and you know. And you know every now and then let us swear slip in front of my inlaws or whatever. But. They know that I'm trying and so they say thanks sorry and they say, okay, it's fine. Don't worry about it. That's kind of how it goes. You know what I mean. But but yeah, it's always. In every relationship that you have involves negotiation and everybody's got rights to have kind of you know under their own roof kind of how they like things to run. Some people want you to take your shoes off. Canadians. It's a sign of respect and if you want that respect in return, you gotta give it an. It's a negotiation and as hard as it might be in these in relationships that have some toxicity in it right where. You have. You know you have a lot of resentment may be a of anger towards a certain person It's it's really hard to see their boundaries as legitimate. but but. I think you'RE GONNA get. Hopefully you're GONNA get some respect back by paying them right well, and and let's all remember the fundamental truth that when you relatives, you know whoever we're talking about here have a prayer before the meal when they when they bring up certain subjects, they're trying to proselytize to you but no different than if you were to bring up. You Know Christopher Hitchens what he said about a certain subject you're trying to convince them to. So you know we just kind of the the the intentions are actually good or. Quote Unquote. Pure. But. We've got to leave that away so that we can have a relationship that isn't based on trying to convince back-and-forth. Yeah, and we need to decide where I mean. This is about deciding where to draw those lines and so you might be okay with them saying a prayer before the meal. That's fine. That's your thing you go ahead and do it but don't ever call on me to say the prayer. In somebody else's house and they decide they want to have a prayer. Pretty Shitty. In my opinion to make a big deal about it though. I'm not. I'm not advocating saying, oh I how dare you? I'm just saying that the fact of the matter is like or humming the you know La as while they're doing it or Don't be an Asshole, but we are all trying to proselytize each other at the end of the day because we all feel like we're right. So you know that can very much poison a relationship if it can't can't be managed correctly. Yeah and if it can't be managed correctly, maybe that's not a relationship should be in. That's and in the end the you're the final solution if you can't reach an agreement is to walkaway Yep. So there you go. All right. So A. Dipping a toe in the idea of boundaries, which is pretty new to a lot of our friends so. That does it. I'm walking away. Get there I. don't like it when we talk about boundaries so. Now. You're making me angry. All right. It's this is done putting down boundary. All right. Done by. Well friends. That's it for this week show. Hey, listen if you have a better book than the Bible and you want to tell us about it. We'd love to hear from your sandison email how do heretic dot com or fue suspect you might be the mowing devil call us and tell us about it at nine eight do which is nine, hundred, eighty, four, six, six. You can also me up there on twitter at how to heretic. and. Also a lovely thanks to our patriots as always and Thanks to Cody Layton who is not one of David's Shitty kids for editing show and thanks to you friends for tuning by friends share the wealth.

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