Odell Beckham trade: Ed Valentine, Patricia Traina break it down
Welcome giants fans. You are listening to a bonus edition of the Valentine's us podcast as we discuss. Tuesday's stunning trade by the New York Giants of Odal Beckham to the Cleveland Browns. In case you have been living under a rock and hadn't heard the giants. The SIV Ning traded Beckham to Cleveland for a first round pick seventeenth overall third round pick ninety sixth overall and third year safety Gibril Djibril peppers, a former first round pick. So the Odell Beckham era in New York is over at big blue view. We've already written a the news slash reaction story. I've given you a Valentine's views column with some of my thoughts on that Chris phlegm and Dan position to have given you a podcast of their own offering. Their take on the situation what we're going to do here. Now is Patricia traina of lock done giants? And I had a little discussion about the Beckham trade earlier what I'm going to do is play that discussion for you, Patty. And I are going to use that I'm going to use that discussion here. Patty's going to use it on her show at locked on giants. So let's play that for you. Now as Patty and I discuss our reactions to the Beckham news. Hey listeners. This is Luke Thomas show hosted m finding if you like mixed martial arts and combat sports. You should check out our weekly show. The enemy our each Monday. We speak with the top athletes of anime from world. Champions two rising stars also bring you in-depth analysis on technique in our Monday morning. Analysts segment we talked to some of the brightest minds in the game. We answer your questions regarding the latest news and headlines of the world professional finding find us on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm using colleges. Nate Sloan songwriter. Charlie harding. We're the hosts of switched on pop the podcast where Charlie and I breakdown pop hits to reveal how the music works. And why it matters. It's our job to help you find those a ha moments within the music, whether you're a pop fanatic or skeptic, a teenager or an octogenarian non musician or professional composer every music lover. Will discover something you're opening in switched on pop. Yeah. And we think you'll have a lot of fun with us because you're going to get to hear from amazing guest musicians. Song writers producers journalists listen to switch on pop every week starting in March on the apple podcast app or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. So I'm joined now by Ed Valentine, a big blue view. My former co hosts here at the locked on giants podcast and Ed as we recorded. It is ten o'clock at night. I don't know about you. But I was kind of counting on a quiet night. And such is not the case. No, Patty, you know, just just to let folks know we're doing a little bit of a of a of a joint conversation here you're going to use. You're gonna use it at locked on giants. I'm going to use it on my own new show at the Valentine's use podcast so will be killing two birds with one stone here. But but like, you, you know, I I was all settled down got got the pajamas on. I got the bathrobe on. I was was ready to go watch some TV. And then Dave Gettleman went and traded Odell Beckham to the Cleveland. Oakland browns. And and and I'm still trying to process that when Patty, you know, at I just put together something for Forbes. I just it just published literally seconds ago. I have some thoughts about this. You know, I know I apologize homeless Twitter followers. I had not had a chance to really look at the my mentions. I know there's a lot of people who are upset who are asking. Why what the heck is going on? Whether the giants doing an Ed I just want to mention a couple of things that I put in that article just just for what it's worth number one. I think given the hall that the giant Scott, and for those who don't who haven't heard they not only got safety Gibril peppers, which you know, the bills need it. Also gives them the Browns first round pick, which is number seventeen overall. And the second of the Browns to third round picks, which I believe is number ninety six overall. I don't know about she wed. But I have a feeling that quarterback. Now becomes in play for the giants. I kept saying before the giants made this trade that I thought it would be a pass rusher. At number six. I didn't see quarterback being in play. Now. Think quarterback might be play with this extra. You know, first round pick in and disturb round pick, absolutely, Patty. I think it has to be you know, I think that that you've got two first round picks. Now, you got a third round pick even though it's I think the very last pick of the third round. You have twelve picks overall and. You know, you're you're perfectly set up. Now, you know, if you want to sit there and say wait for Dwayne Haskins at six or if you wanna package your pick somehow and move up in try to move up to to two or three or whatever, you know to guarantee that you get Dwayne Haskins. Now, you're set up to do that. So, you know, so from that perspective, I get I get what Gettleman was trying to do here. I don't know about you, Patty. But you know, I see people in in the Twitter mentions in those kinds of things, and I'm like you. I haven't had much time to spend in there because I did a quick column it big blue view. I'm. It's a first round pick. It's a third round pick. It's not a top five or top ten pick. But I don't know. Do you think it's too much too little too late? You know, do you think it's it's an all right hall for Beckham? You know? And I haven't really thought of it. I figured China's we get at least two first rounders. But you know, they're getting a free safety in April peppers who still on his rookie deal. So he's relatively cheap. But you know, I looked at the cap as you, you know, as I always do especially for Forbes. That's kind of what what we do with the articles. And you know, I'm getting I know one question that I am getting is how can the giants dump Odell at this price. But yet justify keeping Eli manning. And you know, this kind of me to the second point. I was I was getting at the savings might not be astronomical now and right now, I don't really on a quick glance. I thought it would be around fifteen million since gone back and plug on the numbers in it's not that high. But if you look at over the cab now the giants are projected for twenty twenty two have well over. One hundred million dollars in salary cap space now that number will come down. No question about it. But you know, right now, they are in really good shape. So I just think that this whole transaction. You know, if there was ever any doubt that really shouldn't have been because it was kind of obvious. This is a rebuild and for those people who are asking me why allies still on this roster. That's why I say I think now a quarterback is more realistically in play. And maybe the giants now don't wanna extend ally. So if you weigh all that together to answer your question head, I think, you know, I think it's a good deal for both sides. Howdy. I think that one of the things that that you said I wrote the same thing at big blue view and posted just before we started to chat in trying to to quickly, you know, make sense of this whole situation in at all of us who cover the giants. We're all kind of scrambling in thinking on our feet here and trying to figure out what's inside of Dave gentleman's head which which by the way, if anybody can really figure out what's inside. Dave Gettleman head, you know, I I really want want the formula because because that that man is is completely in thoroughly. Unpredictable. But you know, you're absolutely right. I think that quarterback is in play here. And as I was writing it, big blue view something dawned on me in this whole ally. Manning conversation. What if in in all throw just a what if question the giants have a five million dollar roster bonus to pay ally? Manning in four or five days, I think it's on the seventeenth of this month. Right. What if the play is Josh Rosen and alike doesn't get that roster bonus? That was just a scenario that that that popped into my head as I was writing that you know, what I wrote was. Yes, the giants still have a thirty eight year old quarterback today. But you know, but that's and there's no inside information behind that. It's just a scenario that floated through my head, you know, because that's a quarterback who's already got a year of playing experience. So if you're in a rebuild and you don't wanna rebuild with thirty eight year old quarterback behind center. And I think we both know that Dave Gettleman is not as committed to ally manning as Pat Shurmur seems to be maybe Josh Rosen is the play could he could be. I don't know. I mean, I I definitely think that now you've got extra draft assets. And I do think in one way shape or form quarterback. Is now gonna be played beat. Whereas before again, I was convinced they were going to go pass rusher. At number six. I still think they are going to go pass rusher at number six. But now that they have that extra that extra draft pick. Now, maybe quarterback becomes a more realistic option because you know, look before all this went down. I suggested they extend ally one year, which is kicking the can down the road. I get it. But they didn't have an option. I didn't think they were gonna go for quarterback. They didn't have the third round pick which is reported asking price for Josh Rosen. You know, they didn't I didn't get the impression that they were higher an any of the quarterbacks in this class to go with that guy for number six. Now, this changes everything, and here's the other part of it. Ed right now, you have a fan base. That's kind of I rate, you know, they got rid of their best to best defensive player's alleviate burn. And landed Collins they traded away. Oh, del Beckham junior who I don't have to tell you was a very popular figure amongst fan base. They gotta do something. I think to to bring back the excitement to get the fan base something to look forward to because right now if you look at this roster you say good Lord. How are they going to compete it all twenty nineteen? I hear you, Patty. I think that this move even more so than the Lind Collins move because Odell has been such a lightning rod with the giants for so long. Now, this move is a tipping point for the giants complete total change of direction. I mean, they can't say anymore. I mean Gettleman hates to use the word rebuild. He says that to us over and over. He doesn't wanna use the word rebuild. He said he keeps saying we're just moving forward. But they are I'll I'll save reconstructing this team. You know, I look at I was actually, you know, making a list earlier Gettleman has gotten rid of Jason Pierre Paul Olivier Vernon Damon Harrison, divine Canard ally. Apple he watched Justin Pugh in west enrich Berg walkaway in free agency. And I'm probably forgetting one or two other big name guys at in addition to Collins and Beckham as well. And you know, trying to figure out earlier today. You know, what is the plan where is he going, and I may have mentioned to you one of our our conversations that we always seem to have that that it seems like he's playing a long game here. He's playing the rebuild game. Even though he doesn't wanna say he's accumulating assets. He's moving contracts, and as as emotional as you can get as tach does you get to some of these guys the reality of it is the giants have been bad for seven years. Now, they've had one playoff appearance they've been bad. They were thirty one in forty nine in the regular season games that Odal Beckham played you know, some of these guys were good players. But the giants as a franchise as a team as a whole were bad. And and government is just he starting over. So so you can be emotional. Attached to these guys. But the bottom line is the giants have been bad in you have to try something else. Absolutely added meaning the years and years of poor drafts. And this is what I try to explain to people. You know, the reason why they couldn't afford to keep Landon Collins is because they had a keep paying big money contracts to guys on whom they took mulligans and that began to add up, and what amazes me is that the giants did this. I think it was two thousand fourteen that didn't work out. They had a shed a bunch of dead weight after that, they did it again in two thousand sixteen that, you know, they got one playoff appearance out of it didn't go very far, but they had to go, and they had a shed deadweight. Again. This is what Gettleman is trying to do. I again in my article, according to over with the cap, they have over thirty three million dollars in dead money. Right. That's. That leads the league right now. And we haven't even started the roster building process. So the giants I don't expect them to be very active in free agency. I think they're going to pick up a bunch of you know, second and third type of guys. But just unbelievable. I it's you know, it's rebuild. Let's call. It. What it is. And for those who wanna know why is he li- manning still on this team? He's going to be a transition player. I suspect meaning that you know, if they do get the quarterback they'll be able to execute the Kansas City plan like they want to. And then I think maybe after this year, they say goodbye to him. Oh, sure. Patty. I mean entering two thousand nineteen no matter what they did. Ally was always going to be a transition player. The question. Became an it's still is you know, will that heir-apparent will that quarterback of the future come in this draft class in a will it come this year or will giants wait until two thousand twenty. And I think you're absolutely correct. That the additional draft picks the second first round pick puts them in position now to get a quarterback. And maybe to get something else in the first round. If they don't have to move to do it as well. Or if they choose to maybe use one of those one of their picks to to make the move for Josh Rosen as I talked about, but but without doubt quarterback has to be in play here because the giants are now set up to where they can do that. Yeah. And if quarterback isn't in play if they giants come out of this without a quarterback. I would be absolutely shocked. I mean, look you have turned over practically the entire roster since over the last two years. Okay. At some point you got to move on from the quarterback. Look I've been in Eli manning supporter for a number of years. I still say it is not his fault that the team has been so bad. It's not solely his fault. He's partially to blame. But not totally the blame. But you know, you're trading away. All these guys you you're letting these guys walk out the door at some point. You've you've got you've got a, you know, you've got to say, look, we've it's a tough decision, but we've got a rip the band aid off and just move forward. I agree. And I've made the case that that that band-aid probably could have been ripped off years ago that maybe the giants made a mistake, you know, as far back as two thousand fifteen. Eighteen when Tom Coughlin was was basically shown the door. I mean, they the giants at that point time could have basically they could have engineered a clean sweep a rebuild at that point in time. They could have ushered Jerry Reese out that could have gotten themselves in new quarterback and started over, and I think they'd be a whole lot farther down the path. You know, then they are now, but that's all sort of water under the bridge. They're starting over, and it sort of you know, I at this point. I can't waste a whole lot of emotion in a whole lot of energy arguing about whether or not he lie. Manning is the the quarterback to begin the two thousand nineteen season because you know, it it's as obvious as can be that he's not going to be there a whole lot longer. You know, regardless of whether he's there to open the two thousand nineteen sees. Or not it's as obvious as can be that the giants are pointed toward the future. End at that future is not going to include manning at as the quarterback for a whole lot longer. Yeah. I think that's how it's shaping up. I really do. And by the way, just a little FYI. I -ean Rappaport rap sheet at the NFL network just happened to put out a tweet just a few minutes ago saying that Odell saw Antonio Brown receive added money without adding New Year's upon being traded to the raiders. And that his understanding that being rap sheets is that old L wants the same thing from the Brown. So Dell or reportedly already looking for a raise from the Browns following the trade. No surprise there. Patty. I, you know, of course, he's going to angle to try to get something. You know, let's actually talk about Odell for just a minute. You were the first one months and months ago who raised the idea after Odell Beckham signed his five-year ninety million dollar deal with the giants. You were the first one to raise the the notion that there was basically. Chance he was ever gonna finish that five year deal with the giants in the more. I thought about it in the more. I looked at it in the more. I saw the different sorts of distractions and things that happened. I came to agree with you. But I didn't think it was going to happen now despite all the smoke that had been that had been floating around didn't think it was going to happen. Now. I thought the giants might try as long as they still had ally that they might go one more year try to make it work try to, you know, while they were transitioning, but you know, I guess Gettleman was happy with this price in he wants to to to to start that rebuild. Now. I'm just I think we knew that the end would come for ode L. I just didn't think it was going to come. Now. I didn't think it was going to come now either. But with that said, Ed the giants have. A lot of holes on defense. Stay have a few holes also on offense that they have to fix, you know, they're not gonna fix everything. This this year, they're going to fix a lot of things. But I don't think they'll fix everything. So I guess, you know, I don't know what the tipping point is. We have obviously heard from the giants. They haven't even announced a trade they can announce until four one pm on Wednesday. But you know, ultimately, you know, it's going to be interesting to hear what Gettleman has to say. I'm sure when the press release does come out they'll be a statement from him in there. And I'm curious to see what he has to say about it. Especially after you know, saying we didn't sign him to train them, which by the way, I took to mean that we're not intending to trade, but we could still trade him. If circumstances allowed for it. I took it the same way Patty, and one of the things that I wrote a little bit earlier this evening at big blue view was. Was we've heard you know, we hear a lot of of things from from gentlemen in. There are certain statements are certain things that he tends to lean on one of the things that he one of the the beliefs that he leans into quite a bit is that you don't give up on talent another one of the beliefs that he leans into an he leaned into really heavily when we spoke to him at the combine was this idea that a general manager's job is to eliminate distractions. And if for a while you've wondered, okay, well, those two things, you know, aren't necessarily they don't necessarily work hand in hand. So push comes to show, which one wins. And I think in the end we found out which one wins in his. His mind. Yeah. I mean, look he talks about how everything he does is designed to send a message to that locker room. Right. So, you know, Dell a talented player, and you know, he gave them an also spoke about the whole question. And in the end, he's basically saying look, no one is above this team. This is all about culture, and this is how we're going to do things. Now, my concern with this whole thing is if I'm, you know, sterling shepherd or I'm a premium free agent. How might they take this moving forward? I mean, I'm sure get them. It's not worried about that. But you know, you've got to worry about that. Because if you run too rigid of ship that could also work against two there has to be a little bit of flexibility. I mean, that's if you remember that's what Tom Coughlin did. When he first got here. He ran a very tight ship. And then he loosened up a little bit and everybody was singing kumbaya around the campfire. So. I'm curious to see how this plays out over the next year or so, yeah, it's a little bit of I wanna say shock and awe right now. It's still we're still processing all of it. But you kind of have to let it settle you kind of have to remember that we're still in the middle of free agency draft hasn't come yet. We don't know what the giants are going to do with all of those extra picks. We have to see we have to see where it goes, it, certainly it certainly makes it certainly makes the whole thing. Interesting. I mean, you know, owed Beckham was the the source of so many headlines and so much speculation in so many rumors, and you know, that that moves onto Cleveland now. But, but I don't know about you, Patty. But the giants I don't know if they're going to be any good going forward in two thousand nineteen. But at the moment, they certainly are interesting. Yeah, they are you know, one other thought I'm gonna I'm gonna throughout their ad for what it's worth. And I wrote this in my article for Forbes, and I just see a lot of history starting to repeat itself with this team. And by that, I mean, if you go back to two thousand six when Eli manning was still kind of young quarterback, and you had Tiki barber who was the unquestioned leader of that that offense and Tiki, you know, he was kind of a polarizing figure, you know, ally Willie. I don't think could be a leader with Tiki on the lock in the locker room. So when Tiki retired it became allies team. And you kind of wonder in this kind of goes back to my belief that maybe a quarterback is now in play for this year by removing down. I know this sounds ridiculous. But just hear me out on this. But by taking Dell's big personality Etta that locker room now when you bring in your next. Quarterback you allow him to naturally take over and be the leader of that offense, along with sequential Barclay something that I don't know if it was going to be able to happen with with Odell I mean because can you imagine if you know you get a young quarterback in there? And and that quarterback, you know, MRs Odell and Odell does stuff like what he did with ally manning with the expressions and the throwing up the hands. And you know, he's asked about you know, the the young quarterback in an interview. And he says something, you know, the wrong thing, can you just imagine what kind of repercussions that would have had and thinking about the shockey factor. Patty got a number. How all of that went down with Jeremy shockey, and it was one of the big reasons or the big reason why the giants moved on from Schalke because they had a young quarterback they needed to make the young quarterback comfortable, and you know, you I've wondered in the back of my head for a while. You know, it it's been obvious. That the giants are handing the football team. The leadership the face the front man for the organization now in the locker room is sequential Barclay, and I've wondered for a while, you know, how that would play with Odell Beckham it. And now the giants, you know, it's. People won't like this. And and I get that. But that's another thing. Now that the giants don't have to worry about you know, now what they can do whether it takes them awhile or not they're innocent Jewish in where now they're they're building the football team. That Gettleman wants that patch Germer wants will. They succeed will they fail. I don't know. But they're doing it their way they're doing what they think is right. And you know, we just have to see how it all plays out in the end, Patty. It certainly it certainly is different H. Sure is had an it's it's you know, it sent shock waves across the NFL. It said shockwaves, I'm sure are most every beat writer those Cleveland and the giant beat writer and the national writers and just well, you know, for for a team that's relatively quiet in free agency. The giants sure have made splashes in other ways. Poor Kim Jones who I know. I know for poor Kim, I think like five minutes after she went on the NFL network and said that that basically what all of us believed was that the giants weren't actively shopping Beckham. And you know, people might have been sniffing around and all of that. But that the giants weren't really trying to make a trade happen. Five minutes later. Odell Beckham was a Cleveland Brown. So so sorry, Kim, your timing was just pretty bad. You know, what I listen, I'm going to own it. You know, because that's how I am. I kept saying that I didn't think they would do it. I know there were writers. It said that you know, there's smoke. There's fire. They were right. And I was wrong. Look it's going to happen. I'm not going to be wrong. One hundred percent of the time. If i'm. I'm not going to be right. One hundred percent of the time. I should say if I'm right ninety five or better percent than than that's good enough for me. But look it happens to the best of us. Unfortunately, you know, like, you said it happened to Kim. Who's now standing reporter? You know? I know I preached it. I know that we're few other people who who didn't see it happening. And here we are at. I mean, it's it's a whole new era. This is this is not the previous regimes giants. This is this is Dave Gettleman patch club, and they are going to come do what they can to build this team back into a contender. And it's gonna take time, you know, we may have to go through another season where it's going to be a lean year. But hopefully, they get it all together. And they're able to make that transition from the manning era to wherever the new quarterback is very successfully. They'll just have to do it without del auto Patty would just have to get on the train with crazy. Dave and see where it goes. Yeah. We do. Add listen, always great chatting with you. I know there's still a lot of writing to do. There's a lot of discussions to do. I'm sure the radio with quests will come. So always a great chann- to to sit and chat and break the stuff down. We'll talk again soon. I hope. Yes, we will Patty. Thank you much and get get some sleep. We'll see what sort of craziness awaits tomorrow. Thanks a lot or giants fans. That's our show. Please stick with big blue view throughout the day on Wednesday as free agency officially begins as we continue to give you reaction to the Beckham situation to all of the free agency news surrounding the New York Giants things certainly have gotten interesting for the giants this off season. And we will do everything we can to keep you informed to give you the best. Best analysis and opinion that we possibly can. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you soon. Bye bye. My name is Spencer home by name is Jason card. My name is Ryan nanny combined. We form the shutdown full Tron keep telling you, we're not from this forecast is technically college football podcast. But it's also a show about care disaster. 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