Side Effects of Hair (with Dickey)
Starlings shots everybody who came out to Oakland and it was a whole the tuition also. WanNa let you know if you have not buy tickets for smart when black in La March twentieth. You need to get it to give a will also be on. May Ninth in Boston. We've never brought smartphone black to Boston never partially because it's racist but there's a lot of black people that live right outside of Boston common and they will come. They will come so come on. Come on down come on down and I WANNA make sure that everyone knows what it's not dot com for that we are about to step into women's history month so shots all my ladies and if you have not bought small doses potent juicer everyday use audible than you playing yourself because all the vibes we got right here are in the audible book. Why because our engineer Brandon Perdue stay? Yes and I made that happen because I knew you all will want that to happen and so it went down full flat tires. So shout outs. Everyone who's weather audible and the book because you are a special kind of fan. Let's get into the show smile. So funky I welcome to another episode of small doses. Now you know lousy episode very heavy. I was talking about side. Effects of being an empath. Cry Laughed but only for a short amount of time And I feel like a lot of people really connected with this episode due to my DM's it looks like people really learned a lot and connected and that was really dope. But I wanted to loosen things up and what better way to loosen things up. Then with today's guest the natural hairstyles extraordinaire and Maverick. I should say as well as founder of New York natural hair staple salon and brand hair rules. Mr Anthony Grandfather no people. I'm dealing with one of the most ridiculous humans known to man right here Dickie and I connect because we are both somehow oddly silly and serious very serious but very silly in like extreme intense amount was the amount of thoughts and sentences that we try to put together. They don't always match up so you take your time and it's just like but guess what this this because there's so much there's so much and you have an. I don't so that's how we work well together because I'm like that's it that's it I that's it So I met Dickey when I was shooting the pilot for a show called hip hop. Pov TV the executive producer was tiffany. Lia Williams me by the way you scared me and I will tell you the story. Yes your presence. God we go into here. We'll salon dicky comes over dicky's like hello. Hello Hello I'm never been a salon girl. I've never been there so it was very like. Oh my God. I don't even know how to carry myself. And you're Dicky what he does when he does consultation. He says in front of the mirror he puts his hands in your hair. He talks to you. He rubs SCALP. He asked you questions he very much like. Makes you feel comfortable about not only where you are but about like his knowledge and he wants to understand what you about your hair about taking care of your hair etc so I do nothing so in that moment I felt very like ou embarrassed so ticky is also very good at what we got you. This is a safe space. All the people in the air capable and we got you. He told me we're GONNA do is I had like blond highlights and he was like this won't do we're going to give you a blonde halo around your crown to lighten you up to lighten your energy up which is slightly offensive. Then he said we're going to give you lowlights and highlights. I didn't even know there was a gradient. Okay so Catania get to it so sets forth on this journey with me so what happens. Is You get your color then? Go sit indicates chair and he gives you a cut now again. I am very like not savvy about this process so I'm not used to my hair being cut or being dealt with etc so my hair has split ends things going on dickey guys my hair and when I turn around I have a very small Africa. But that's what you saw. That's what I saw what you saw. I cry now. You should also know that I have for crying. Thanks for telling me. My mother went through this when she told me to get my haircut in tenth grade and I said I like a line like to my shoulder okay line. It was a move when she cut it to my Chin and it was like. That's not what I asked for and driving home like I was crying about it and going about it so much that at a red light. My mom turned me and said I will drive into this and I said do it because at that point my hair was so bad. It's like whatever I got to go to school on Monday or lake smart ass so I just remember feeling so panicked. I hated you I was like I love when women share pletcher after the fact because these things that are shared with me in the chair I get that because we you know we don't share them for me. 'cause we respect you but we respect you and it's your shop. It's you know what I mean like. It's intimidating and also I was there for work. The member like tiffany brought me. They're like as a makeover before we did a show. So I felt like I was being ungrateful to not Be Legs at happy. Yup I went in. I went to the stairwell. They have like a stairs and cab to Harlem so my hair started to grow out though and then you were assigned so then the show got picked up five minutes later and you were the hairstylist on the show. Don't remember I I remember that. Don't remember your account just now. Okay what we what we remember what we choose what? That's I know I was just coming. I was the face coming through. All right whatever so I could totally see that but for me it's like. Oh my God I'm going to here with Dickie and here is all thing so when we get to MTV. You're the Silas you had Another Silas was named not mentioned. And and you all were working with us on the day to day and I just started to get more comfortable because you gave me knowledge about my hair and me being just me being the negative. I am my comfort. Level lies and information like inconsistency so the two things that make me feel comfortable information consistency. And you just like made me no more about my hair about what what it can do about this whole like natural hair thing and I think that women really like your clients are not people that just like come to your shop like you have people that show up and you have people that have grown up at your shop. I have grown up at Harrell's 'cause that was two thousand twelve. That's why you act like that when you come yes okay no. I totally makes sense now. You know men DART. We're real basic so you don't take down the hole but it's funny you find these things out afterwards as like. Why is she acting like that? How are you know like you? You are really comfortable in the fact that she's jumping around and she's making other people nervous she's not me but I'm like leave her alone and so are being the way she right but half of it is listening. And I'm I'm that Nigga I will fight you if you fuck my hair up. I don't want no problems as I know how far ago but I know that ninety percent of it is listening and people just want to be heard. And if you're not and if they don't feel like they're being heard not only. Are They not going to trust you? But you're not going to really get the right information because ally the right and hairdressers are known for lie for lying. It's a very gimmick driven industry. Which is why when you go to hair shows half of that shit that you see it. A hair show ain't no client going to ever walk out there out of this long looking like that so hairdressers. Because their lack of knowledge in half of the textures within the texture spectrum they weren't given any information on so the the the even the term kinky curly. There's no mention of the word Kinky or curly in any textbook across the globe for any hairstylists who wanted to go to school to get a license to do hair. Your taxes not mentioned. That's GONNA cost problems. Yeah so hairdressers loved alliance. Say They can do some shit when in fact all you're doing is just being dishonest. And she's not even if you don't know remember Tupperware Mary. Kay Yes are you gotta do is tell. Just take your client by the hand but about what you don't know and and have a Q. and a. How have have a hair have a natural air. Meet up and talk about your. That's why they were so huge back in the early two thousands natural hair meet ups because women had found the worldwide web not the industry professionals because the consumers much smarter than the professional no professionals know what they know what they know and they're the baddest AD and they and they make the they've they've made a lot of money off of using your hair as an anchor for other hairstyles and or yes chemicals. That you're you did you. Had you know that whole term? I go get my hair did. That's the term. Yeah it just means that you got your hair. Did nobody talk to you about it now. Thirty years later. You can't figure out why you don't hear and you went through menopause. I so you you weren't even able to see how your health or your age did some changes because of this thing that popped up every four to six weeks and you were like you told you thought it was bad or ugly. So there's just this whole experience or lack thereof for myths and mockery surrounding women and their natural hair texture that cause women to walk in the Salon and want to Want someone to give them information. Yes right out. La I'm here in l. a. Now right Doing a kind of natural hair out is not like it is in New York DC. It's interesting because you know I hate to use the word Transplant or or migration black folks fled the south care to to to La so black people. Here they don't get relaxers they can do some country ask presses. Oh yes but there's a lot of us is what fucked me up. Remember that yes so as I'm looking at your hair preserved in its beautiful self. Because she was like no. You can't do that to my hair literally. I didn't know better And I just got my hair colored and it was the first time that I had someone else. Color my hair outside of hair rules since I started going to your salon so but they were referred by you so I was like fine but I did a show the next day and the girl who did my hair. She pressed my hair to the God. God's but because I had just gotten it colored I didn't realize that the two can be a lethal combination and the next week I did a photo shoot and typically I dislike cough and my hair curls. Okay so like I got. I got to the photo shoot just like spray. Some water on my hair like okay. It's time to get right. Am I. Here looks at me like bitch wears it was like genuinely like you know when cancer patients lose their hair talk about how jarring it is alopicia patients. They talk about how much it hurts. And if you've never gone through that it's hard to truly understand like what is because it feels like a tear superficial. I did not lose my hair but even just losing my curl like depressed. The Shit I right because you're used to seeing yourself a certain way and now it's just not and it's not by choice and I call Dickie in a fucking panic like I think reload no I definitely was teary eyed. And I was crying I was like I don't know what to do when you come to New York. I booked a flight that weekend came to New York and we gave his Jewish. But you're like you're GONNA have to back out and we were doing like I was doing Bigger it took a year to book by. Its back and now. I'm growing my blonde out so I can let my hair gets like a full natural organic base before I colored again. 'cause this hasn't been there since. I was thirty and you also you do. You're in You'RE IN TV now. Getting yeah and also the styles that you wear protective styles. So you don't have to beat it up anymore. What do you mean they protected thousands of a slick back? That's site is really because you're you're particularly for your hair you don't but he's on it right and they're great ponytails or great braves them long now. I wash my hair every night. And so those are those are those are styles that don't require you to have to like. I don't know if you remember there were just Several years ago when black folks coming up in the in in in Hollywood which is coming up just a few years ago where you were either you were. You had to wear a straight hair you had to wear. We've or have straight hair. I was told when I got an MTV. A friend of mine who you know you get advice from good people sometimes but he was like now that you're on TV right you need away and at some bullshit and we know that that doesn't really sell it was all bullshit and now you were left ball headed and fucked up because because who knew. I mean and also. I don't know if you remember. The Standard of beauty was not yours. A few years ago I went through an entire industry fashion and beauty industry and my life where the standard of beauty was blonde hair and blue eyes it was Christie Brinkley. Yes and it was beautiful but it was fucking boring and it's like and you knew particularly moving to New York from the West Coast and you know no disrespect. But I'm from Seattle and our idea. I moved from Seattle to Arizona to San Francisco and then to New York in eighty nine. And it wasn't until I got to New York in eighty nine. I was like Oh shit but prior to getting to New York I was like there are black people. There are white people. There are Mexicans in their Asian. But and that was the version that was diversity version. That was never diversion diversion because I had no fucking deal what the hell diversity was and then I got to New York and I was like Oh shit. Black people are from the islands. Wanted this red man. I'm proud I knew exactly what he was talking about. How come this? How come this does brother is speaking French right? How come Hey Dominicans Dominicans with asking me if I speak? I'm talking Spanish to me because I don't speak Spanish. And and and Dominicans are not Mexicans. No they're dominicans. Puerto Ricans and they're not Puerto Ricans and Hondurans and. Irish people are Irish people. They are not Italian and Jewish. People are not white people correct unless they decide to say so how in the Euro says how in the hell are you going to tell me glance? I looked like a white man. No come on. I've been told if you didn't know I've been told by a bunch of black folks who didn't walk in a room and says about negative and they looked at me like we will fuck you up and I looked at you like you do what you know what. I'm saying as you know soon as I open my mouth but not even just like recently. I met a white man whose essence screamed like. Are you a white man like when it comes to texture? How are you going to tell the people where there is? You've relegating people relegated people to to shop down the ethnic I'll or the non-ethnic ethnic I'll for your their entire lives and then to sell and what was the Mexican. I'll where's the Asian? I'll I mean hair texture. How do you tell me that I as a black man so my hair is not straight? I looked like a white man at by glance right and what I'm saying is that you know ethnicity particularly when you go to the Caribbean and you have you. Have you seen different than my daughters? Straight and wavy. Yeah so ethnicity does not define texture Sandia ethnicity. Your hair texture is not defined by your ethnicity so the whole concept of Indian. Mfn is relevant. And you might but you might. Not so what is it defined by its define by the fucking hair that grows out of your head? I don't fuck it now. I mean had there's many shades of people as we are as as many hair textures as our and some people have four one one hand. There's you know there's like three textures on my yes jewelry yes I love it. Nameplates jewelry made in New York City. Even better that's why we use alright how you say it over how you spell it a for a C E or right not to be confused with Aura. Which is somebody who fights against dark magic in the world of magic? But that's a different story Harry Potter. Read it or rate was founded by women for women pieces range from classic at the statement. It's completely original. Og All day and they make the jewelry you've always wanted but could never find you know what you mean. You'd be looking around like you. I want some wear. But it's like Yo. Where's it at all right got it? Let me tell you how good it is insanely good quality top notch low price for high quality. That's another thing you want to get. Right they really. Nobody's value trying to spend three racks for something. That's just kind of like when you spend a little less and get a lot more you doing. 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Not here for that. By women is for women we bought it. I folks will alright because all rate is not only looking good. It makes you feel good. And that's what it really is all these entrepreneurs I hear they've got these companies businesses. They're not even paying taxes wild. Now you know that you could look fly while also letting a child learn how to elevate their phonetic capabilities. Bananas do it is what it is. Whatever so you want to get into our rate this what you gotta do for fifteen percent off your first alright purchase good or great New York dot com slash small doses and use Promo Code. Small doses must spell. You are L. at least once as a New York dot com. I just did it. You are in New York Dot Com. Repeat call to Action and fine. I'll do that for fifteen percent off your first purchase. Go TO OR RATE NEW YORK. Dot Com backslash small doses and use Promo code small doses. But for the record. I didn't repeat it because they told me what to do. I repeat it because I want to fly. I ride on nobody. Tell me what to do piece so tell me this though. How do you feel about the foresee to be like that? I love it. Some people. Don't subscribe to it. I love it because where the women we. The people found their voice on the Internet through sharing stories. Remember those stories that weren't told in Hollywood. Were there started to be told on the Internet. The World Wide Web on chat rooms where women were like you know a girl. Mayer take saying ugly. You know a girl right you know when he told me by my hair texture. He told him I shit with bad ugly. And you know what? I'm actually does good girl. And so there was those stories where women started to share their experiences at the beginning of the natural hair movement. Because I think it started with I think it started with the takeover of a mid to late nineties with takeover of Remember all the supermodels were every. Supermodel was on every cover of every magazine in the late nineties. They started to be replaced by celebrities. Yes right you Christy. Turlington and Naomi was in July because estate could afford to put the lowest selling month. Where Black Girl Right? And so that's how it was and all of a sudden you realize that movie houses could get more bang for their Buck Record. Labels could get more bang for their buck for their artists by being put on the cover of a magazine and being featured and the the and now we can dive into the into into the life of a celebrity. And you can't dictate how Erica bye do comes at the table looking or Jill Scott. Right be and there. And there's there's some natural neil so bitches right and that is not an SP right. That is just not. They're selling units. Yeah that was still when people were going platinum and exactly it was a thing that they're selling units and magazines Realized that they could sell to. I can keep up my two point four million SM subscribers monthly by putting them. Because no one wants to see this model again for the last ten years In there was Naomi Tyra and occasional model but anyways I went black women started to see more images of themselves. Span it because of magazines. Now we look like it's too late because they're all going under because nobody's buys magazines but we're all over them now. We got in right before they got out when I was coming up like you're sitting next to a picture of me and my brother and me when I was twelve and I'm looking at my hair and I remember the hairstyle is. They're just being like shoes. She was a lovely person but I feel like she was always just like I don't know what to do with your hair right and I was just like a little black girl with natural hair and it was always a conversation about what to do with my hair because my mom was like what you not going to do is party sixty days and just put Baba's on the car today. It might go do her here. You're going to do are here. And so my mom would have to show her like put a braid across the front. You know ask you how long you stay in the beauty shop as a kid. Never a you didn't know my mom so my mom has hair like an Indian woman so my mom's hair used to be down to her ass. She's have long like gorgeous gorgeous hair and when she had me it was like is he gonna be her there like I can keep both so she cut it off. And she's kept a Bob. She's kept like It's pretty sure an eighties. Like pantsuit Bob for a long time. She looks like a ninety s black woman lawyer on the TV Sitcom so she's like really kept that aesthetic for this whole time and so with me though. My hair was very different than her hair so she didn't really know what to do with my hair for a long time. Either in terms of how to like care for it because I of course am surrounded by perms right and she's like well. I'm not doing that. I'M NOT PUTTING A permanent hair. But Allison was the fact that the front of your hair is your father unruly and not willing to communicate the front of your hair. You have to get the front of my hair same. It's the same length as the rest of the hair. But it's really looks like it's only two inches longer. Yes of course which is shorter. And you add texture. Is it for a couple of years now at Carrington we use on the edges? Now works now. What does yeah no? Because you've you've changed in that that little A new but it wasn't until I started going to you at like literally thirty one thirty two that I learn about what is unique about my hair and learned about like our hair needs. We need to talk about that. Was You talked about black women being afraid of moisture on? It's like it's it's four hundred years of reconditioning and water is a source of hydration. Like I don't have much of an education but I do re- I do remember in the sixth grade and Science Class About H. Two O. Water is a source of hydration cleanliness. Imagine if the scalp on your head imagine if the rest of the skin on your body was neglected like this cow on your home Danke. No I'm just saying you're right. Your skin is the largest organ on your body. Is Your Scalp not skin teacher right now? Right your scalp also produces oil. So why are you raising your scale? 'cause it's dry because I'm every black woman knows that they got here once a week as a little girl and all right if you got your hair wet you got the evil eye. Yes right because I can. What and so historically women of color have been relegated. Two thousand kept them away from water and got them from Shampoo Shampoo. Your right and the natural hair. This is not the first natural hair movement the first natural movements seventies right and that was more out of a struggle for civil rights and it landed on it had less to do about vanity more to do about pride and like how the enormity of one's Afro right and though and nobody had a lopsided or oppressed smashed up Afro. It was an Afro in fact is a protective style. Because you're strands are kept stretched out constantly and the the the the enthusiasm with one's pick or K. cutter back in the day. The you know they they they. They abandoned they abolish them in school because they thought we wanted to use them as weapons. My hair needs to be larger yet. And I need to pick the strands out and that's the real ideal the natural the the end you. Can Somebody argue through affirmative action? Right people of Color women particularly could move into corporate America in the eighty s and that was the first time we started hearing terms like hair loss and no edges relaxers became much more convenient and no woman who is now not only has gotten this education and is a wife. has kids as going out now into corporate America Right It's going to risk a Sunday. Press and sixty percent chance of rain and walk in these people's job and have their hair jacked up because there was a some type of and you know back back prior to this prior to the eighties there was black. Black women or black people were not trying to conform to an identity they were there was a pride to your. Afro and how you looked and oppressed. You're on you straighten your hair for a for a particular occasions. It wasn't to conform to an identity. You did it because black. People are actually some of the most conservative folk on the planet so we have no choice right and so for a special occasion or church. You got your hair pressed as nobody had heat-damaged Afros back in the day and now with this new natural hair movement because they're generations and or women who forgot about what care to the hair was you hear all of these women on the end and I don't use him. Don't use heat on my hair Well you haven't figured out your natural hair texture. You're bored with it. It you need to get a relaxer because some women are so team natural that they are willing to walk out the house looking crazy and and I'm not. I'm not saying that that that you don't deserve someone to help you. Fall in love with your hair and help you introduce reintroduce you to it but what I'm saying lack of Keno. It does not and oftentimes. Your hair is natural. Does not mean you have it. Should you should be looking uncapped on captor on cared for. And that doesn't mean that your hair texture is bad. It's the most beautiful. Dexter has the does the most my point is is that what did it look like when not to cut you at you. What does it look like when it is quote Unquote Looking uncared? For what are what are like dry unattended to an unattended to dry hair. That looks like it's been slept on is not natural hair. Do you remember that ad? There was an Asian and I think it was H. M. at earlier this year or last year that went viral because there was a young black girl featured in this was the most at the table on that board and so there were a lot of people that were like. Well she just looks like a young girl who didn't ever hair done and she just looks natural. Why's everyone up in arms? What was your stance on that? Her hair was hadn't been done and it had been cared for like that. There's a difference here. The undone a hair CA- UNCARED for kinky hair and I don't talk to women who have a natural of four texture that have kinky hair. I don't talk to them. Used language like curly. Because you don't have curly hair and that's not to say that you're kinky here is not as beautiful. Anybody has curly hair. And so because otherwise you get back into the conversation of good hair versus bad here. And there's no such thing. As good here only bad only bad weaves and wakes yes and bad hair care but that's half of it is that you know and a lot of times these now. These big manufacturers that have stolen a lot of terms from the natural hair community are now making products called car wash co wash. Is that something that you buy? It's something that you kind of like salvation. Can you explain why because you got to do something to be said? No I mean you. We saved okay so let me tell you. I thought CO washing meant. This bottle contains a shampoo and conditioner in one lies. Explained Co washing is something you do. It's let's break up the term Co Wash with Co Wash. What do think Hawash means you wash once a week. Let's just say you wash one Komi. In addition to Co Wash so you co- wash your hair. You Wash your hair once a week and Inbetween. You Co wash at the coast over conditioner. Oh my God no not at all. That's that's crazy. You're an educated woman. No that's what they tell you. That's what they sell you. That's where did it say that on the bottle. Where did it say that? I'll be right back conditioner wash. I just WanNa know you brought this bottle to me. I want to know where you said because you told me that co men were short for conditioner and I get that I I was like okay. Whatever some bullshit and so I want to know was co short conditioner. Would that mean to you because I wanNA know like for me? Understanding that Co wash is a call to action at some bullshit products. You miracle in a bottle that you buy. And that's the other thing. Remember as kind of the cart before the horse all these products came out prior to education as we spoke about in the beginning. Which was no-one having any idea what to do with half of the textures within the texture spectrum. But we know that they're the team. Natural chicken see wants products. So let's throw the. That same thing happened with her when she because we used to not have an aisle. We had desio shelf and some random drug store with all the usual. Greece's can I remember. Yeah if that way blue-green right and all these and how our our I'll expanded was they were like put the same shitting taller. Something else. Yes and that's all it was. Ooh Now we have a shampoo for relaxed here for color treaty here for dry hair that suds up. This set the first person to teach me that I cannot use shampoo that has alcohol in Zero lathering. Ultra moisturizing milk cleanser. So doesn't that sound like I. Shampoo conditioner the cleanser the cleanser. But where did that? Where did that descriptions say conditioner cleanser moisture say? I'm GonNa say it again. Zero lather. Ultra moisturizing milk cleanser. Sounds like something for your face. No no I just. I just answered the question please. Because united taking me down a rabbit hole no but that sounds like him. Yes it looks like conditioner because it's cream and for so long creek conditioner. Looks like cream? Shampoo has more of a marbly text like Marley colored. You it so let me show me like your shampoo. Amanda can't add that in the term so fay free all. They did another marketing term. That they stole from the Natcher. Sulfate free means that every shampoo that existed before sulfate free was the same sensing component in dishwashing liquid and they decided when the natural community came around. Let's take sulfate shampoos. Okay and the only two non said zinc cream shampoos. That were didn't have says was at the time was diva curl. Win and hair. Rules was the third back in two thousand seven but prior to that they every body says so faith free sulfate free only applies to shampoos. Have all they did was replaced them? With a nonsol- fate free agent and sentencing is still like putting gasoline on hair. That's naturally dryer that has no oil great for a flat. Flat Straight Greasy. Here what have you seen an ad of a white one would flat straight greasy hair. You have it all shampoos. That have says are great for her. They make flat straight greasy hair. Volume is your hair. Grows out of your head volume is. That's why from the tech our heroes tax spectrum. You have to show people the opposites of things so they can see why they feel this way or why they've been led to believe something. That's the only reason why I talk about. The only reason why ever talk about race is because it's that's that helps you to understand your. The Standard of beauty was not yours. It was hers and for Texture. It's easy to see like and I talked to any any educated. Ceo that will sit in my life where you have a corporate job and I'm like yeah. Okay that's okay but you hope that a woman is educated to know that she'll tell you of course. The Standard of beauty was hers. They're all agree and the perfect place to start for me when you talk about texture and you see that they're Asian women and white women. Were Flat Straight Greasy here on one end of the Texas back on the other end. It's everybody here. Yeah they're looking up. You're ready to read great same room but everybody. Yep It's it's interesting this whole texture paradigm and so you started. Harrell's I started here. We'll start this along with the line for no you know. I wrote the book hair rules in two thousand three and I had friends who had written books Kevin Kwan. Kevin Staff Sam fine. And they were very Celebrity Artists yes and I was a little bit of celebrity artists. I'm more fashion but you know I was like well. You know what I can write a book. I was raised to have a lot of confidence. Self confidence I read a book as well now. Available as reference. You in my. I'M GONNA have to check that out. I'm pretty sure that book at here. Rules and can I just give you a shout out real quick us? My show ever was that Harold my i. It was so don't Dickey opened up here rules for me and I will never ever ever in life forget you for that because you just didn't have to and what I loved about hair art and it was you that I was good but it was also like New York and something to make you forget that like is so New York it could feel like everything is she she foo foo and you still managed to keep your salon space feeling like this las bases that are in like more rural towns. Where like there's the barber shop and there's a line. This is a community. Space Salons are in our community there mom and pop their mom and pop industries. You forget now yeah and by you allow me to do my show there it it it. It really like extended that and my show was called Warrior. Girls in heroines. I spelled H. I. R. Away and you know like when when you're like why are you so comfortable year because I've lived life here right right right? It's just a line going yet another so I wrote the book hair roles and I bought a house at the same time and I you know with not having much of an education and very much interested in design. I thought the House was going to be wonderful but the book was going to destroy me and it was the opposite. The book was like I you know I can write a book. I'm going to just talk about what I know but I'm GonNa tell the truth about the industry. I have a perspective from what cosmetology taught me. From what the beauty industry in New York and all these beauty bibles from a lure to essence to glamour. Why they were telling. Women lies about their hair texture. Or not you know. The whole beauty appropriate it. Th- broach creation issue simply came. Because you can't call yourself a beauty Bible if you don't have images or content relevant to most of your readers black chicks read Lord so if why so therein lies the problem that we have a problem with you wearing braids when factual shouldn't have a problem with you wearing braids. Because you shouldn't have a problem with wearing a hair blonde and we wouldn't have an issue if you didn't see cultural culturally. How did they would`ve? How did they use culturally appropriate closing the appropriate? And it's just if the if the if the culture of the beauty culture was inclusive. We wouldn't have had that conversation right because that's not. I had the Daily News. Call me up while I was in San Francisco at hopefuls owner. There I was there forget while I was there for and the Daily News asked me about because someone had made a petition On move on Dot Org about Blues Blues hair and I wanted to I was like I. Can you let me call you back because I have some stuff in my hand? I got a coffee BUBBA. Well I said listen I said at least let me call you when I have two free hands so she finally called back and I said he was here. I am so what were you asking me about blue. Ivy's hair the baby blue. Ibm The baby and she couldn't have been more than two or three at the time. She was three which is a toddler. That's a baby like an actual ban. Those aren't children now. Those are babies. They're not enroll and I said you asking me so move on Dot. Org One woman did way. Whoa WHOA I said. Don't you think this is a little strange of you calling me up asking me about a baby's hair? If she was a little white blonde girl with straight hair. We wouldn't be having this conversation. This weird you don't think this is weird. You don't think that you're now in your Daily News. We're going to now start talking about a baby's hair that's awful. I says because we wouldn't we don't now we're talking about children like it just doesn't make sense but it continues the narrative of like this on the radio. I've just like making black children. Never have the opportunity to be children. It's crazy if we're start so you asked me about So I wrote the book and then I I was good. I was like Oh my God. The book was therapy for me. The house destroyed me. I wanted to leave New York and I didn't. I stayed and I realized I was bored and I realized that I can tell some things right on here. Oh yes okay so So there was a stuff I went to my first bonner brothers show in Atlanta and there was this stuff called bb curl and cream and these big crocodile Dundee. Black brothers had these horns coming out of their chairs. And like I just. I was amazed by them. And they had this stuff in a jar. And MY MIND. Guy Intel prior to here wolf was ninety eight percent white and I worked in white salons my entire life and my cousins would like you know tease me. 'cause like Oh you don't know nothing about these hot combs and Blah Blah Blah. You White folks here. I'm like whatever my my grandfather always said. All money was green money. So I get this stuff and I. It's an ajar. It smells like cake mix. It's smells delicious. I take it back and I put it on my Jewish clients with curly hair and it is fucking genius right and so I started doing. I don't know if I also told you that. I got fired from John Frieda because we did all the supermodels Cindy Crawford the Carolyn Murphy Brain Christy Turlington and I did all the black models at the time to Meco frazier. Who was the first like spokes model for maybe lean multi million dollar contract Kiara and I did all their hair and then the owners of John. Frieda wanted to wanted me to stop doing them for free and I said I'm sorry but we don't we do all the their white counterparts for free. So why would you tell me to do that? And so a week later. They fired me and to Mako was going to like you know go to Ford and at the time and I was like you know now's not the time but don't I don't want to draw attention to myself I'm good. There's always time for in your career to do these things and that didn't seem like it was the right time so at the time. I was doing these I was I was experimenting you know freelance hairdressers that don't work in this lawn and much more innovative because we we. We're expected to come up with things on a fly on a photo shoot. We have to think outside the box so I was that guy and I was like. Why don't we have to put the relax? Run THIS WAY. When I go. Why do we have to relax your hair and you know and and her off? Her hair fell out because she used to wear weaves and we started to go natural and all of a sudden it just didn't work and maybelline. We cut all our hair off. Lean still took her with no hair in all-natural which is amazing. All that to say is that I was finding out these other things about texture and like well. Maybe we don't have to relax the hair straight. Maybe we contextualising so that was working and I had heard that there are the other two women in Brooklyn that at this curve. Salon that we're using eighty glass curling cream this cream stuff in a bottle in a jar and and you know occasionally it would smell like fee. Something with smell like feet and I found out of the brother was used. The day was making it out of their bath. Tub and I was like there was no preservatives or anything anyway. All that to say about a year later missed Jesse's came out and they grandma made it and I was like ooh okay. Grandma was curve. And they'll be beating less county cream. Didn't okay and because I remember purple her And I worked at Lewis Licari on at the TAKESHIMAYA building on the fifteenth floor. All White Salon Ten Thousand Square feet and so all of a sudden I asked him I said can we can. We stop selling BBC at BBC. Glass girl and cream and sale. Miss Jesse's curly pudding and he said okay. Yeah and it was sixty dollars a jar and all of a sudden these women black women in full MTA. Uniforms came to an all-white Salon on this fifteenth sixteenth floor at the Takeshimaya building on fifty fifth avenue. Fifty four th street to buy this stuff for sixty dollars a jar and I was like. Oh Hey I'm Bamadoro product line and like a like one of my clients who was head of CW at the time which is cosmetic executive women. They have the academy award of beauty products every year. And was like when you wrote your book? Don't talk about just black once you talk about every hair texture and I was like well if I do it. Line of course what did I do? A line for every hair texture. I'm the consumer. I'm the one who walks. Down is trying to find products for every hair texture and a half to go to this. I offer that texture and that I'll for another texture I was like this is whack. And this is how segregated is industry is so for me here will was about every hair texture in starting with a hair care you know regardless of what texts you are. Everybody has to cleanse condition style finish. So that's kind of how it's broken up. Then after we launched. All anybody wanted to know was like well. Where's your salon and I hated salon. The Salon Culture was so ratchet. I didn't have to work there. I just worked in between jobs and waiting for a paycheck and it was like a good to clients and realize that my real passion was helping women rediscover their natural texture because that was when the natural hair moving was happening. And who knew that Black Women? Of course you knew that they were gonNA come out of the woodwork. Looking for information so from me was a it was really a responsible to launch a line. That was not just the that that that had to be it had to be based on education and helping women rediscover their natural hair texture and having a real experience for a woman who is looking for information because she was looking online but she couldn't find with professionals so that that's really where and I don't like salons still I still don't like them. There's a real ratchet culture and you know the industry's Change. The whole thing is gone and it's never enough. You know for your for Your Team. And it's you know it's across industries. I hear from women across industries that people have lost. Everybody wants to be an individual or not. That's not everybody wants to be a name. It's not about a team and something everybody is like. What what part. What part of this me. What part of this am I getting publicly? Acknowledged for like and it's like okay but you've been doing this for how long I've been sags nine thousand nine hundred so but you been in your head and entertainer for how long my life exactly. I've been doing here since one thousand nine hundred five legally right. I didn't get here alone without work. Absolutely and he's all right and I feel like that's okay. I hear what you're saying because he will show up like but I'm here now and everybody wants to be an instant star and I think that you know. There's a lot of depressed people on on instagram. Because they WANNA have already arrived. And it's like no that was just something to look at so considering that you hate. What made you decide? Because I've found my lane. My Lane always knew that there was a huge market in In Los Angeles for me because one. There's not a lot of relaxers women still love. Weaves and wigs and there were still going to be a woman who believed that you know what I had actually. They're bad and there has been doing this same to my hair that they was doing for the last twenty years and you know why is my hair thinned out and I'm I'm in You know you you. I think that women in eight Lee believe that. I think you know Deborah Lee told me a while ago after she we tr- helped her to transition into her natural hair and she fell in love with the and and I've had women cry and tell me what are they the. It's it's your your customers and people that affect you are the ones that give you the thumbs up but she said I found something that I fell in love with about myself and that is no small thing finding something in your life later on in life that you fall in love with is a beautiful thing. Some people don't ever get there and if it's a small is here you know hair texture and skin. Color run parallel. Historically people chose not to believe that their skin color was bad re- regardless of what they were towed in treat how they were treated and and and hair textures the same just now. They're signing laws called the Crown Act. So you can't be discriminated against. I mean twenty. Yeah Twenty twenty them in New York. Yes what are some stuff you would know? What are some crazy laws at a against people of color or just sitting out there and ran that we don't know that still exist? Do you know of any because this is one of them. Well the reality is. Is that the voting rights at can be reversed. If any time. It's not written. Yes it's not written into. Yeah it can be reversed. It's like it's an amendment so it gets voted on and ratified. But but it's it's not it's an amendment so like the truth of the matter is our constitution needs to be eradicated and completely drawn over again from scratch like they didn't happen for a while now. It's not going to happen unless this country has like a coup yes a major revolution for some type of catastrophic event that affects everybody absolutely regardless athle- transformers deceptive cons after descend from the from everywhere from like Nevada said New York City to fuck in the middle of Montana like it has to be like scorched earth. That's only right or or or there has to be a situation where the powers that be realized that they will make more money if they do. It does only as fruits preacher right now. We're talking about basics basics basics basics and when we talk about basics- what's I can about ever lane. You want to buy a t-shirt fifty dollars. If you know it's only seven dollars to make no no you wouldn't be basic with ever lane. You never overpay for quality. Clothes only makes premium essentials. What kind of essentials basic? That's right and premium using the finest materials without traditional markups. They want to know what you're paying for. And why so they tell you their real costs because they know that you're not basic and are radically transparent about every step in their process no matter style preference. Evelyn's close look better cost less and less longer because Evelyn sell directly to you. Their prices are thirty to fifty percent lower than traditional retailers. And that is basically awesome. So you know what when I think of everything products I like to think of like. I'm wearing something right now. That was thoughtfully made. I'm wearing something right now. By somebody who thought about the fact that you know what Amanda is not trying to just spend money just for the sake of spending money. Amanda wants to make sure that she's actually putting money into the hands of people who give a damn about the people and about her and about ethics and I know sometimes we say there's no such thing as ethical capitalism but everyone is trying to do that in basic kind of way and right now you can check out our personalized collection at every lane. Dot Com slash small doses? Plus you'll get free shipping on your first order that's ever lane dot com slash small doses ever lane dot com slash small doses. We may have said it three times. But we know you're not they he said basic basic. I was glad to be able to get you in and get you on the Mike because I know a lot of our listeners are natural hair advocates and I think like what I think about what your your stance has been. Is that you build in the social the social activism of the reality of what it is to be a black woman with hair into how we consider how we take care of our hair it's storytelling and if you don't know someone story. They finally realized that black stories. We're make WHO'S GONNA make money in Hollywood. They're still but that's it's still a beautiful thing unless you know someone story and I hate complaining. I hate being a complainer about racism sexism. I'm like for me like you when you talk about like you know what you do. Is You build your entire your building and you've built an entire performance on your masters of African American Studies at Columbia University. That's a responsible. I am doing what I'm doing because I realized that there was some similar parallels in beauty like with it in like the related to civil rights was and why we're fighting for civil rights and that beauty was the last segregated industry as well and so like why not help women rediscover something beautiful about themselves through listening to their stories and that will tell you a lot and so you do a lot of play on your with your audience and it's based off of the culture and you're not stealing from the culture. You're doing things to how people think about things that they already knew but like Oh shit this is the truth. The ugly lies the intervene inconvenient truths. And you make fun the dirty part of it and that helps me. Beauty also helps us close relief to have conversations about things that are hard like when I realized that my black clients were having conversations with Michael White clients because they could talk about their hair and it allows for another part of conversation to have exactly. It's easier to talk about beauty than it is race but beauty can still bring you into the race conversation. That's what that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah and that's it's an easy. It's easy to digest. Well it's just an easier. Segway I mean is the same way that I use humor So I hear exactly what you're saying. I think Joaquin Phoenix and his speech. What was it with that award? Show Tabatha as the Baptist like my favorite part of his speech. Not only that was so spot on but his uncomfortable. He was so fucking uncomfortable. And that's all anybody is asking someone who doesn't understand my point of view fucking living me living my shit and be uncomfortable for A. That's the least you could do does it. That's it that's why the real I would love to be more light hearted in certain situations but sometimes the conversations just require a gravitas that makes people uncomfortable because they don't want to acknowledge that gravitas is a lava that is flowing beneath the surface very close to the surface whether you want to admit it or nine addressing it is bullshit bullshit and then and the reality is it's not just like white women who are upset at me like bringing these things to the surface it's also black women but the end of the day they really are dealing on a daily basis in ways that some people just don't even imagine and so we do stories on the show that I think a Lotta People Wanna just write off like. Oh that happened over there or that happened to them and there's a there's a Nice Koumba Bowl we can tie on this about this specific situation and I always feel the need to acknowledge like this situation is a pimple on the body of a fucked up nation. Yep like it's not just over there and you guys have enough points of views that you need because each one of you can be educated by the other and if you didn't and the your audience would just be getting your point of view or an attempt that happening a smile on my own show but I I enjoy and I enjoy having guests like you. Who come in and bring a different point of view because of obvious reasons but also just it it just broadens the mind the perspective and I think so much of us have become very become very Myopic in how we view our own experience and others experiences and I've gone through that too and that's like be like no that's your perspective but that's not hers or there's and their value to so let's hear it but I think this is really interesting because I never thought about beauty being a bridge in that way. I've noticed it because I do I. Do I do here to also make money and I need volume and the only way you can make money by doing. Here's volume and so I need to do at least fifteen to thirty clients a day and how you do that. What a great assistant. But you also have to It doing here is the easy part. It's the conversations and the consultation which is the most time consuming. Yeah take your time you have to and so somebody has to be doing here while that's happening and then I can come along and do something that takes all of five minutes and people. If you're keeping someone in the salon longer than an hour you're bullshitting them and you're wasting your disrespecting their time because it's not that difficult so the other part of that is that you you you get this. They come for an experience. Women come for an experience when they come to here so they come to Dicky and particularly in La. It's it's been interesting because have you noticed it in L. A. Every person that walks up to you to everybody looks familiar. I've seen these people before I thought it was just New York. But it's it's it's La. I just it's because the product line has been around for the last ten plus years back. It's back it's bag. Heroes bag here DOT COM. You got boxed you get some more stuff to honey. I just listen. Y'All I found so for a while. Air AIR RULES PRODUCTS. Had they were paused. And knows what. How would a small business goes to say in business? But I couldn't get the conditioner right and when I moved into this house I found a jar of the rationed that shit out. I was on an island with a jar of Marmalade for dinner and I was just mix it with Walter. Stuff mainers really right and you know what to be to be fair to assume I tried other things and it was like I have to. What do you? What do you think happened to me when there was no product right? I'd have the same problem. I tried every product junkie and I have no shame I will try every I have tried everything. I don't care conditioners yarn conditioner. I've used that was even remotely close to yours. Was what living proof really yes. I'm going to try Jennifer. Aniston is the spokesman. No I'm going to try and I've tried 'cause I'm sorry but can lit conditions. Do One thing there to soften any tangle your if it didn't leave your head I don't care if it's a deal had nanotechnology this that and the other eight nine dollars. Eighty nine ninety nine. If it didn't leave your hair soft. You didn't use it again. That's fax and I've done this. I've gone through this right. Listen if Cleveland style. Every woman has a hair product. Graveyard all of us have it. It could be a basket develop businesses out of graveyard really. This is a basket as drawer. It's a box and you're as big as yours. You're afraid to throw away because you're like maybe I could go back to it later but you end up going through all these things and when I moved I had like a cabinet and my assistant was like what is and I'm just scared to throw them away. I have to I. I Love I love. Tear Texture L. F. I love a product for hair texture. So I try. I buy things the same reasons why you buy things I go into the store I popped the seal off of things I picked it up because of what the label looked like. Yeah what it said it was GONNA do. Yeah I needed to smell it and oftentimes I dipped my finger in. I'm sorry but it just happens. Yep I'm that person. I washed my hair with Harrell's cleansing cream cleansing cream and the conditioner. It's the cleansing cream. The third one there was when diva curl and hair rolls back in two thousand six two thousand seven and it's the best one only because I like product to make product and develop it based off of what women want a product to smell like and I know the difference. I know that white women need with the different hair. Texture need a product to smell differently and to act Function differently than a black woman with thick curly or Kinky hair. Because they they're culturally. They smell product differently. A white woman. Don't want no fruity Bergamo. Stuff in her hair. She wants something clean and light because she needs volume cleanline- clean and that's not to say that a black woman doesn't but she needs something to fill like a better. Yeah I feel like a butter there you go. We want their Buttering this product is ever Shea. Butter is there cocoa nuts? Is there a whole bottle in here? Kanda nut oil. Some so I use those products to wash. Because you've always asking me like a man your hair regimen Then I put Moroccan oil mask on the front of my hair okay. That's all that works because it's so rich and and use it as a conditioner. Styling product styling product. So when I wear my apparently wait a minute. Oh styling also to wash. I use Zeros to wash washing collision back and doing your crazy dope s ponytail braid. It looks 'cause you know I don't do too. I have to hairstylist. I have my house at the Real Cheyenne. And then nicky got all right and they both of them and they don't. I don't even ask what they using but I know. Cheyenne started using a Gel. That's more shea butter based because she was like I need something that doesn't feel the end of the day like it like Yoko. Hera like that. You're avantis boxer motherfucker like I. Don't want your strands locked in. And then we ended up having to move up because we do two episodes a day. So it's like we need to put water on it for work as I'm writing down find. I'll find that the product because sleep switched because she switched and she was like. You're on your hair wet or dry both both because sometimes I show up and my hair is wet because I washed it the night before just putting Italian lean but then sometimes if we're doing something that requires a little bit more refinement. Show blow it out and she'll use dyson dryer to blow it out so it's not a hot. It's not crazy on but to style my hair you feel like I needed like a foam foam said plus a leaving plus a scenario. Lafayette leaving conditioner. Which is very natural based. And he's been on the back of my hair combed through and he'll have to. Every black woman has a cocktail because our hair is a cocktail is a cocktail. That's why so expensive as I gotta buy all this shit for my hair plus tampons like what are we doing here last. But we're going to wrap it up so if you're in New York you can go to Harrow. Salon fifty fifty nine fifty four tonight. Well ninth between fifty four Hair RULES NEW YORK. Gogo there you go and don't ask me. Where's your salon? Google is not working for you. I hate it I hate. I hate people asking you questions or an applicant. Who can you tell me what the address is? No no thanks. Don and clientele waiting. La His private private la is not what hair rules New York is. It is a different private experience to help a woman. The experiences really to help women rediscover natural so the session. More education more education. Well let me tell you this you nominee to be a loyal motherfucker to a fault. I only get my hair done by Dickie adhere rules. I don't know if you know there's I've lived in Los Angeles says two thousand and fifteen and mama seal comes back to New York is I do. I'm not going to say I haven't strayed but always come home. I only strayed at your urging. Don't don't know I asked. You you referred and you're like you can go here but you can only go here for this right. If you're trying to get that you need a book a ticket. I don't let nobody pressed my here. No more only you only you do not let anybody put a flat iron to my house. They don't do it here. I do not allow it. The country presses allow press here. I'll let them the only allowed even a remotely present when I'm doing insecure and they would have to blend right with my weight But otherwise no. You taught me so much about my hair. He's taught me so much about just the uniqueness of natural hair of my personal texture of manage it. I'd learned that Co wash does not stand for conditioning wash so I was today a Hallelulah Lou today years old when I learned that So thank you and I think that you need to start a podcast about this funny. You should say so. We'll talk about that outline but everybody you have now been welcomed to the world of Anthony. Dickey is an experience baby. If you didn't learn then this thank you. Thank you love. You love your a podcast network.