News | Will The 2024 Ryder Cup Be A Disaster?
This weekend. At Bethpage Black. There's plenty of good golf action. But there was the fans that really ended up stealing the show and they had players, taking notice mostly players were fancy atmosphere, the energy the electricity. But some thought that fans crossed the line, and they were worried about returning Bethpage for even bigger future events like the twenty twenty four Ryder Cup. Pretty quiet you know. Yeah. Mutes it. Nobody will come out and watch. Is going to be mental, isn't it? I mean it's going to be raucous going to be amazing. I mean, it's going to be patriotic be very, very cool for the Europeans and the Americans. It'd be cool for the spectators. It's gonna be amazing. We need our fans to be our fans full force, and I know they will not questioning that, but in that tournament momentum huge. And when you have guys going on there as team certainly bonding competing together. We'll need that thirteen command and the New York City fans will be that family. It's a special environment that people are, are unique and think it's gonna be a good strong home field advantage. A good solid home field advantage, says Phil, but where's the line between awesome atmosphere and just drunken mob? And what does it mean for the twenty twenty four Bethpage Ryder Cup? I'm doing to chair with the golf dot com podcast and joining me today as Luke Kerdani Gulf magazines instruction editor and. Unabashed European Ryder Cup fan to break it all down. Thanks for joining us. Oh, you. I'm doing well, I'm, I'm happy to be here. You wrote a piece for golf dot com entitled as European Gulf in. I'm terrified about the twenty twenty four Ryder Cup. What is it that has you shaking your boots? What's nothing about the teams. I'm terrified this going to be a disaster. And I think the fans are going to embarrass themselves on really worried that they're going to bars the game along the way. So that's I mean, this is a serious accusation. You're not the only one to have leveled at your certainly not the only European born media member to, to level. I think it was John hugging. That said take it away. Bethpage lost the privilege of hosting the twenty twenty four Radha. What is it? That was so bad that you saw this weekend. That seemed so troubling. We'll remember the lost. Right. Aqap that was in America was up, salute embarrassment in so many ways. I mean, the funds getting kicked out because they're abusing ROY macro wife, I witnessed with my own two eyes. Thomas pitas in pivotal matched on the stretch. Having to Bacchus shot two different times, because he's being interrupted by the crowd. So that's the context were coming off. And then with PJ championship PGA championship run away. And in a lot of ways, I know close down the stretch, but please come on. We knew books goes going to win this, and the crowd was just going off. They would shotting DJ's name. And there were boos books KEPCO boos when he was walking up the eighteenth green with a trophy and hide. I mean, this is unbelievable. And this was jeering PGA championship. There was nothing being done to rile up this crowd. And I just cannot see this point how this twenty twenty four Cup is absolute mess. All right. Well, I, I want to add where it is. I have common ground with you because I was following kept this group for the last four or five holes. So I wrote about this on Sunday, actually, as Brooks KEPCO is getting to the fourteenth hole. He had just made three bogeys in a row up ahead DJ birdies fifteen and you can sort of see that from the fourteenth t- looking over at the fifteenth green the crowd, roar, you could hear it. Some of the fans at fourteen new always happening. They started up a little cheer, and then they posted the birdie to the scoreboard on fourteen and then the fans really went crazy start. Chanting DJ DJ as kept goes about to tee off. Then he makes he FIS the green hits his iron just way over the fans are going crazy, because they're rooting for chaos at that point. And you know as a fan of storylines, it was hard not to also say on, you know, this is pretty exciting. That's getting tight. He walked off that green, all of a sudden it was a one-shot advantage and it was pandemonium. They're worse than things that felt like they were crossing the line. You know, part of it is like these guys just pull up their phone. It's like they're going live on Instagram or they're thrown out, a Snapchat and yelling something dumb at capita that they can, then send their friends but overall I couldn't help but feeling like that miss fear was awesome. It was the energy was hi. There were some idiots, but the whole thing felt pretty high octane. Oh, come on. It's all some right up until the point when it boils over, which is exactly. Happened in the last Ryder Cup. Yes. Of course it was. It was cool to see the crowd realize that this was a close major championship all of a sudden, and you could feel that excitement, but those moment that were at tons into hostage to. And that's what I'm saying. I'm not going to begrudge a fan or a bunch of founds cheering when a bowl goes into a water because I get everything for chaos. It's a good way of putting it, what I will homophones about is yelling choke Brooks got as it's kind of hopping, which is what was happening. That's not really what Gulf is about. And that's definitely what go found him isn't about. Yes. So it seems like you are taking the side of golf is different in this way obsolete. You hold devote other sports, the same standard. No, no. Of course not. Because all the schools you don't have to be quiet. When the other person's playing it's not tenant of the gay. Right. And so that needs to be kept in mind and that needs to be protected because they come because when you start encroaching that point, that's when it's becoming a big issue because if somebody. Shouting choke as the walking off a green, then that sort of opens the dole for more of that to happen, and inevitably where that leads is what happened to Thomas pizzas at the last Ryder Cup, which is that somebody's yelling choke as standing over an important pot. And at that point interfering with a competition. It's not fair for that player because he's playing on a different set of rules, essentially as everybody else in the game. And that's something that does need to be protected. All right. So this is good. I think we are honing in on where exactly the line is because there is some very sacred ground when it comes to being a golf in and that's not you know, pudding golfing, it's high horse. That is like it's the same way in tennis, you'll see the empire's making sure that the crowd is quiet because it still and then play begins you as a fan. You have a crazy amount of power. If you wanna screw up Tiger Woods, you can do it if you're right there and you scream something as he's coming down in. His back swing. You know, in the middle of his swing should say you could do it. You'll mess him up. You saw it at last year's British Open on the eighteenth hole, especially so we make sure not just picking on dumb American fans. There's dumb fans everywhere, and one guy screamed during Tigers back swing on the eighteenth last year's British Open. And he looked out to the crowd, like what the hell's going on? Come on, you'll, you'll deflecting here this is about one fun of the present in the line. This is about America's history. In letting crowds getting out of control of the Roddick upward stems back to ninety nine thousand nine well, again, ninety nine is a whole other issue. But this is the country that has brought you the waste management Phoenix Open and where other golf tournaments are looking at that. And saying ban were jealous of that. I wish we had a little bit more of that. So it's a little bit of you're getting, what you ask for, we, we talk about how good the New York crowds are how unique and different. Is that once you get out their players, you're gonna get heckled, and you know, they're going to get criticized on the hit Porsche shots, and they're going to get called dumb nicknames? And so I think it's a work gets personal with players families. I think that's problematic. And I think be once it starts affecting actual play. Like you said. You know, shouting players to screw up to him even the Kazeem shank. It it's definitely not a good. Look, think it's, it's, it's tough to do anything beyond just. Really kick those guys out. So I guess we'll get to solutions in minute, but that's bad and interfering with actual golf swings is so bad. Because you could easily change the course of an entire tournament. We agree that interfere with Gulf swings his bod- obviously. But the problem is it usually only happens when it's too late. Right. So you need to knit the stop stuff in the bud. And what happens at right a Cup, which is everyone likes rod a Cup crowd. That's little feisty, right? I like a Cup crowd. That has a little heat behind the whole point the whole point. But the problem is, when you start applying heat when you start trying to Rev up the crowd, and all of a sudden, it boils over, and it's too late by that point, because much has been lost shots been hit. You can't redo a shock. And that's what I'm saying is, we need to be laser focused on fixing this problem because otherwise it will spiral. So what are the solutions? Luke, you have raised. The issues. How would you fix it? So I think fussed we need to go into the sort of. Actually saw. So I think I we need to go to the sort of grownup solution to this problem, which is realizing that everyone's complicit here, and the media loves revving up the crowd of setting the stakes before ride a cop the tournament loves doing the same thing in many ways, and the players play into it, because it suits them at that moment in time, but we need to realize that Bethpage is slightly different honorable so play as need to continue calling the stuff out the crowd needs to self police. They need to booth, the guy who starts yelling stupid stuff, you know, the crowd is take this on and the media has to realize that it plays a role in this, too, that it can't be romping it up with high public too soon, because, that's when things can stop the spiral out of control. I disagree with you on the second one but I agree with you in the first and and you have seen that I mean Tigers different animal altogether. But you've seen that a couple times where he's gotten messed up, whether it's over a putt, or a shot, I remember there was kind of an ugly mob type seen last year at the. At the farmers at Torrey Pines when someone yelled, something during a short putt, and it looked like it screwed him up in the crowd really turned on him. But there's plenty of security out there, and the, the idiots are usually fairly obvious. I think that there needs to be more leeway to be given to people that, you know, have the power to kick out fans. Justin Thomas made him a name for himself just doing it on his own. But I think that those security guys need to be like, all right, you bring up someone's family you yell too close to someone shot. That's it. How alcohol because obviously that is a big part of this, especially during long days at golf tournaments people walk in the door start drinking, it, you know, eight eight thirty AM and by the time you get around to four pm five pm you've been in the sun all day. People are getting a little chippy to me. That's a car you dangle over the head and you'll ready to take it away. Eddie moment time, I think reasonable solution is allowing alcohol to keep being sold until you start to notice it becoming a problem, which point, you still selling it off to the rod cups case there group the Gulf in the morning and you still selling alcohol after the morning groups. So it ended about sort of two PM. You'll alcohol sales dot. And usually works the way around I think where people wouldn't start drinking till two pm, but point taken, I think we're just coming down on opposite sides of this, where my sense is that we've just gone tiny bit, too far or yours is really that we need to ramp this way back. Yeah. I think what we saw the peach hitch up in ship, was that the Bethpage crowd is Feist doesn't even need an excuse to be feisty. Because for a split second the, the tournament became close and the crowd, I think got borderline out of control. And I can't even imagine with Ryder Cup stakes on the line with the so nationalism on the line, how it wouldn't approach that almost immediately. So I think we need to start golfing this right now. But did you think about the way Brooks kept get talked about it after the round because he said, you know, look, I don't mind it. I was I was field but it actually was probably the best thing I could heard on the fourteenth when. Were Channing DJ. Is that just Brooks deflecting? And, you know, being a tough guy or is there something to that? I think doesn't element of luck to be the tough guy doesn't make excuses. But at the same time he won right? It doesn't cat because he won. I guarantee you if he was not to have won. He would have turned around and said that was that was ridiculous out. That was unbelievable out there. I think that's just a matter of him taking the high road because he's got the trophy and hot. Yeah. I think that there is something really cool about fans having golfers that they're pulling for, and you see this in every other sport even tennis, where fans have to be respectful and polite there, obviously rooting for one player in the match golf it's sorta like you're supposed to root for everyone. But then route extra for some guys. I don't know. I think at the top level, the PGA tour is entertainment. I think you're allowed to root against guys as long as you're not crossing the line. And as long as you're not screwing up play. Yeah, I mean I get your point right? Like there is the line that, and I'm all for people picking horses that they like visually fun. It should be fun. Absolutely. But I think that there's a fine line that, and I know we alluded to it earlier, and I think that we basically crossed it at Bethpage, and it really didn't take much it really didn't take much in order for us to cross that line. Yeah. And I think the one other element to it was people just wanted to close tournament, so bad there was there is so little natural excitement on Sunday that once there was just a little taste of it. God, people just went nuts. Little toes, the remember the Beth pitches, a history of doing this. And oa-to says yo when we still you're going through his regrouping than he was doing that on pompous. Right. This is a young guy who was collapsing onto the pressure of facing off against Tiger Woods. And the crowd didn't see that as a sympathetic act. They angry about it. So it. Just takes just such a tiny spark in order to ignite this crowd, well, and, yeah, we said, Greg, Norman in eighty six that he challenged a fan of fight in the parking lot afterwards. So I mean there have been some icon ick Gulf moments that come out of rowdy fan behavior, so one other element do want to get into this idea that. Guys are gambling more and more on the fields than ever. And if you're there, in person, you can affect things, and you are extra invested personally. So that is where this gets a little sketchy, especially as the tour gets more and more involved with gambling themselves. Exactly. Because if you'll pulling over on the for example, in, in a football game you can't really do anything that's actually gonna affect the outcome that, but in Gulf like you said, you can't it just takes one idiot, and it doesn't matter that twenty nine thousand people have been behaving themselves impeccably one person, the one stupid thing, the opportune moment than that can Kohl's the entire thing to unravel, which is why we need to be hotline about this. All right. Luke. So I, I want your advice for a fan attending the twenty twenty four Ryder Cup. Anything that you would like to see them do personally, as an attendee, I think, in terms of sharing if somebody hits. Bad show, pulling full fine. I'm not going to lose sleep over that what I think crowd members need to do is they need to go into it with an active sense that they are going to police themselves. Right. And they need to empower other members of the crowd to stand up to people who are being idiots because at the end of the day, we're not gonna have twenty nine thousand security guards for twenty nine thousand people, and we shouldn't we should have the crowd taking it upon themselves, and shaming, the Baden members of the crowd in order to prevent them from doing stupid things, and to create disincentive for anybody who may be thinking about. All right. And then tell me governing bodies Termine organizers, you know, if you're standing in the elevator with the PJ of America executive, what are you gonna tell them if I'm the elevator with top one hundred teachers Suzy Whaley, president of the PGA, by the way, I would say that she should run a campaign around this leading up to the Roddick Cup that she should go to different media organizations that she should buy. Time directly facing this issue, about controlling the crowd about making sure that this is this is done in good fun, that this is about the spectacle of Gulf, and we like it a little feisty. But we don't want it over the top, and that would be pinpointing messaging, I think, is a should be a really high priority for governing bodies, this gets golf's ultimate dilemma, right? It's a long slow sport. The days are long. The play can, you know get a little stagnant. You wanna ramp up energy wherever you can end yet there's this other line to it. You're right this other line too. But you won't to create an environment when knuckleheads, don't feel empowered. That's what it comes down to ultimately that's it for this episode of the golf dot com podcast. Let us know how we did you could find me don't a chair or Luke Kurd Nin on Twitter, and check out leaks article on golf dot com. Tackling this same issue. What do you guys think, do you think that alcohol should be banned at golf tournaments? You think fans aren't doing enough? Let us know the steps owed was produced by ROY and me Dylan to chair, if you liked it. We'd love a few would let us know leave us a rating review and subscribe on itunes, soundcloud, Spotify, wherever it is. You find your podcasts. We'll see you next time.