October 19: Damage control
There are caused that take you from a to B. Then there's the new mini countryman the mini SUV with space for every escape all-wheel-drive for every road and minis renowned handling to boot it won't just take you from A to B. It'll take you everywhere. You want to be inspire your drive in the new mini countryman the many SUV explorer for yourself by taking a virtual walk around at many don't see. This is a CBC podcast Hello I'm Carol off, and I'm Ali Hassan this is as it happens the podcast edition. Tonight damage control as Nova Scotia's lobster fishing dispute gets even more tense. We ask Indigenous Services Minister Mark, Miller, how much longer both sides need to wait for his government to come to the table approval rating many police unions in the United States have endorsed Donald Trump but some black officers speaking out saying taking the president's side is a betrayal herd mentality. Sweden famously took a more hands off approach to covid nineteen restrictions. Officials there say it's working but our guest says the numbers tell a different and much darker story. You Sush Orange after Friday's murder of schoolteacher in France critic safe French authorities are blaming a whole Muslim community for the crime of one Deja flu people in Ontario. Another said of long lines, tricky appointments and short supplies. This time the trouble is with flu shots something one doctor calls hunt acceptable and heavy hitter many in the elite echelons of big vegetable growing have gone high-tech but our guest kept it. Old School didn't put his prized pumpkin anywhere near a scale before competition day. As. It happens the Monday edition radio that always strives to be ahead of the car. The federal government is scrambling to stop a volatile situation in Nova Scotia from getting even worse after violence and threats from non indigenous fishermen. Last week, a lobster pound was burned to the ground in a suspicious fire over the weekend. At issue is the MEKA fishermen asserting their right to operate a moderate livelihood by harvesting lobster outside the commercial season. That's what the Supreme Court granted more than twenty years ago in one thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine treaty, right non-indigenous fishermen in southwestern Nova Scotia that kind of harvest is ecologically unsound jeopardizes lobster stocks. Mark. Miller is Canada's indigenous services minister we reached him in Ottawa. Minister Miller. It seems that there's one point that all sides in this bitter dispute agree on and that set the federal government has failed everyone indigenous fishermen, commercial fisherman, the conservation groups. Will you accept responsibility? Well Carolina. Point where we have to acknowledge the the fault lines that still do exist with respect to implementation of the Marshall. Decision to say that. Nothing has been done in twenty years would be would be factually wrong yet. That's probably cold comfort to the my people today who feel under attack and under assault. And and Physically they're. They're at risk particularly in the water where it can get quite dangerous but don't you think it's not just the indigenous fishermen. Everyone wants everyone we've spoken with believes the federal government needs to step in and do something and it's not just one side against the other. They're. The one thing they do agree on is that t that this has been messed up by the federal government. Well. Look We could sit around and examine failure over over or not only decades but but but centuries and and nothing would get done in the last few weeks. Obviously, everyone has reacted with legitimate horror over. What shouldn't happen in any country let alone let alone Canada and obviously there's a there's a need to act and that is why Minister Blair in. Particular. has agreed to a request of government another Scotia to reallocate resources the RCMP to make sure everyone stays safe. Obviously law and order has to be retained the MIC. My people have been let down by the police and we saw that on Saturday morning is everyone woke up to see a fish plant in flames, and then prior to that the assault of of chief sack on that point on the rcmp being a having to the indigenous people down. Is a federal police force. So the finger gets pointed back again at your government. So you say that that this that somehow this independent police force has failed done, we're has been the resources where has been the mandate for them to have stepped in. That's what we heard from chief sack. We heard from other people in in non-indigenous Fisher men who've said that they have been threatened, they're looking for to the RCMP and. They're not seeing the mandate of the resources there. Well, look I think it's important to set the record straight on on how the RCMP works. It has actually delegated police force in Nova Scotia, which which then therefore falls under the authority of the Nova Scotia government I again, coal comfort for people who feel betrayed by it, and they expect the federal government to step up and that is why we have stepped up. There have been to arrest. There are many investigations ongoing We need to let that increase police force protect people that haven't necessarily felt protected by police, and then over the next days continue goes difficult nation nation discussions that need to happen in order to. Perfect the right that has been acknowledged. In the Marshall Decision, but the hard work needs to be done outside the public eye with the MIC, my people but it has to be done in a peaceful sense of order in that isn't hasn't been the case in the last we'll talk but this moderate livelihood, which is what you're speaking about in that they're the right the the courts gave, and you say nation to nation talks to resolve how that is actually applied. That's also the court said. And so who else is it that table I mean, we spoke with the nonindigenous fishermen. Last week's at times we've spoken with them. They think they should be at the table to they have a place. Are you are you including them in your discussions? Well, there is a time and place in a sequence tall this nation to nation discussions there is no place for third parties. There is absolutely no question that the same time that there is a greater discussion to be had about the state of the fishing industry and I want to make clear that indigenous a portion of the fishing industries is is miniscule in the in the grand scheme of things yet there is concerned obviously about conservation about the regulation and those discussions at some point that will have to be had with with commercial fisherman, but the key aspect and. All this has to be done in a in an atmosphere of peace and order which hasn't been afforded today in September your colleague Minister Jordan put out a statement saying that fishing without a license is a violation under the fisheries act and anyone fishing outside the activities authorized under a license may be subject to enforcement action but you message now is that the magma do have a clear right to fish do understand how how confusing this mixed message is coming from the government, which is again pointing back. This idea why people are saying that that you have let them down. Look. What people absolutely do have a right to pursue a moderate livelihood they have been at odds with Department of fisheries notion for some time and This is a right that has been tested throughout time with the success at times and not in others. It's way to for people to have the right perfect his to have to go to court all the time entirely unacceptable in a country like Canada yet here we are, and so how do we resolve these government where? Yes people expect us to condemn. Untoward should never happened in our violent nature. They also expect us to act and sit down at a table and that's precisely what we did. Minister Jordan. An I in Carolyn. Bennett had an opportunity yesterday morning to speak with the assembly of Make Ma Notebook much chiefs. To parse Haute and work out how that password might look. Dumb. While we can't guarantee the outcome we are dedicated to to pushing these forward. Inexpedient timeframe there was a call from that from chief sack to bring in the army that he doesn't feel that the federal that the RCMP is doing the job to set yourself save let down the indigenous people we've thought we've seen it at Ohka. We've seen this happen before in Quebec, will you consider as your government considering sending in the army? I think you could use the oaken analogy I. Remind you of the temp ten years earlier there is also listed Gersh. People, there are many people that don't feel safe with with the army round as well. in oak being exact precise example of that now. The job of the armed forces should not be confused with the job of the police, which is serve and protect and keep people safe in the community really assurances from the government that they do have the resources to keep the situation under control and. They that to happen they have resources why haven't they been doing it up to now? Well. That's a question we can absolutely examine and I like many Canadians would would absolutely like some answers I suspect. You could probably say that through that a few a policeman can easily get overwhelmed by a mob, but perhaps there's a failure of intelligence on the ground. Those. Are Issues that we obviously should examine But right now we are in the middle of a situation that is is volatile of particularly my fear on the water and resources have and will continue to be reallocated to keep people safe just very briefly. Yes or no will is your government considering chief sacks request that you did you send in the army. I think this is something that we have to assess on the ground on a continuous basis as we as we looked to keep people safe I think this is an expression of trying to keep people safe. And I have. The assurance is currently that people are are are now in a situation where peace can be maintained in that is the proper role of the police. Okay. But you're not ruling it out. The role of the police is to keep the peace and we expect to be done. All right. We'll leave it. There Mr Miller. Thank you. Thank you. Mark Miller is Canada's indigenous services minister. He is in Ottawa. Eight months into this global pandemic and Sweden's health authority appears now to be tinkering with its code nineteen strategy. Today health authorities will start telling people to avoid places such as shopping malls, gyms, and concerts, and to avoid public transport or visiting the elderly. Those are new measures to Sweden. Last spring. All eyes were on the Nordic country as other countries. Lockdown Swedes were living life as usual school and work went on. There was talk of a herd immunity but the experiment has failed the latest data show Sweden's per capita death rate from cove nineteen is the twelfth highest in the world. Lena Einhorn is a Varela Gist author and filmmaker in Sweden and one of the dozens of people who is calling for tougher measures. We reached her in Stockholm. His Einhorn is the Swedish government finally willing to admit that it's approach to tackling the covid nineteen has failed. I haven't seen any such signs. No, you think they'll discontinue as they are. Well there have been incremental changes in the recommendations, there has never been an idea out there ever will be. Any. Kind of the mission of having made mistakes. But it does seem that the Swedish government is handing power back to regional health authorities to make its own decision. So is that a good sign? Well it's not really regional. It's actually the public health agency which is a national expert agency it. There is a tradition in Sweden to do this but in in very extreme crises, the government can can take over fully and they definitely have not. So it's not a good sign if you were to describe Sweden's approach to tackling the corona virus, what words would you use? I don't know am stubborn is probably the best word I can come up with I mean when they started their initial assumptions were fair they assumed it. This would be like SARS. They were convinced it's only spread from symptomatic people. So like source, you could isolate the symptomatic people and and stop the spread that way. So that was fair you know sometime in January it was not fair in April or in May So they stuck to that and one could say that when the spread really when it really hit Europe and and Sweden they did the opposite of our Scandinavian and Nordic neighbours Who went into lockdown and we did not they told people who are not symptomatic to when they came back from risk areas in in Italy and such to to go back to work and they had to go back to school. There was an idea that we heard from coming from Sweden in the spring and I guess he continued that Sweden would attempt something called herd immunity that if enough people were to contract the virus than eventually, there would be a general immunity enough within the population that it would have a better effect and locking things down and keeping people from getting it is that what happened? Well, this was the second stage. Once once the cases went through the roof and they really did for a few weeks, we have the highest per capita death numbers in the world. So what do they do? Well, they don't back down, they don't go into lockdown they don't put restrictions that our country did. So it has been assumed that they were going for her immunity, but they've been speaking with two sides of their mouths on the one hand. They've been denying it on the other hand they said, it would be a bonus and they said come fall and the second wave we will be much better protected than our Scandinavian neighbors who had ten times less deaths than we did. In relation to population, but it became very clear. Once broad testing of antibodies was being done that there was nothing close to her Muniz the I mean. Sweden. latest numbers I saw Sweden has between six and eight percent antibody positivity in the population in Stockholm has around twelve percent. Of course, they realized that they can't go for heard immunity it's going to kill too many people I, mean, it's already killed almost six thousand people in the population of ten million at the center of all this as we have followed, what's going on in is a man named unders tag Nell, Sweden's chief epidemiologist, and he seems to be a bit of a Rockstar in your country for the decisions he made people have tattoos of him why is he so popular? Part of it I'm sure is that when there is a national crisis, people want to believe in authority everywhere they want to do it. The other aspect is that he he has a very calming demeanor even when the numbers were going through the roof, he kept saying that we're flattening out where he we're hitting the peak. He had a way of sounding extremely calming. In combination with the fact that the government handed over all decision making basically to take nail in the public health agency, those were contributing factors and what do you think of Andrea Techno As a as an I have no opinions about him. Personally but I think he has not handled this well and he keeps on attending this well but you know just doesn't example Sweden is the only country together with Somalia Yemen, Eritrea. Syria Greenland and some Pacific islands who have. Still. No recommendations for facemasks whatsoever. So you know he hates facemasks a says, they don't help you have to understand in the Swedish hospitals. The doctors and nurses do not wear face masks. Eggs. And that's because they are told not to or because they believe it will make any difference. They referred to public health agency. When they when they motivated, it's hard to wear a face mask. Nobody else wears it and and when doctors are asked in official capacity why don't you wear face masks? Why don't you tell your staff to wear face masks? They always refer to the public health. Agency. There was a a freedom of information bunch of emails that were published by journalists in your country that show that Mr Tag Nel said that at one point that when it was suggested that ten percent of those who get the disease would be elderly maybe they would die ten percent might be worth it. He apparently said how much of the decisions are being driven by this idea that well, maybe we have to keep Sweden moving keeping the businesses open and that's part of the motivation. They will never admit that the economy is is is an aspect by the way Sweden's economy has not fared any better than its nordic. Neighbours we have ten times as many dead as Norway and Finland per-capita and five times as many as Denmark I mean these are horrendous numbers that we have in. There's no benefit from it. We you know the numbers now rising again in the fall and the rising more in Sweden than in on neighbor's. Yikes. All right. We'll leave it there Ms Einhorn I. Appreciate speaking with you. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Good night. Good night. Lane Horn is a garage gist author and filmmaker. In Sweden, you can find more on this story on our website CBC DOT CA Slash Ai H. Sometimes it's worth going that extra mile or even lots of extra miles. What if say you've managed to grow a truly Jain Norris Gourd you might take a look at that Pumpkin of enormous proportions and just know you're ready for the big leagues, which in this case is the forty seventh annual Safeway. World Championship Pumpkin way off a prize who's prestigious mast owned matched only by its payout seven. US dollars per pound and that can add up to a pretty penny all of which explains why Travis Ginga loaded up his growing project and made the trip from NOCA- Minnesota to half Moon Bay California, we reached Mr Gingrich in. Chavis, what's it like being on a road trip with a giant Pumpkin? It was actually Kinda stressful because if it cracks at all, you get nothing you're completely disqualified. So every bump every turn here kinda white knuckling so to speak. At the Rig where you're transporting the Pumpkin in. So I have my truck in dump trailer is what we actually brought in. So we had to kind of make some adjustments to make the suspension where it should be by adding some extra way to put it on a ride and yeah, because he didn't want bouncing around back there. Exactly, exactly, and so I any encounters along the way with your Pumpkin did people people asking you questions about it? Yeah. So the funny thing is is on the way out, we had it all carpet and wrap so it wouldn't lose weight on the way back we did not. But on the way there people are wondering why every gas station when wet blankets down and this and that they're like you transporting it Dolphin. Okay. So you did a case to still get you to the competition yet to get to half Moon Bay California with your Pumpkin Right Yup Yup thirty five hour trip. And had you ate it ahead of time did to have an idea of whether you had. We didn't. We had all the technology to pre way it and actually the girls thought I was kinda crazy to not pre way it and use go out there because it can go quite a bit heavier. It could go quite a bit light but I'm like you know what? That's half the fun of it. Did you think you had a good chance to winning the competition I did I wouldn't have went if I didn't but there's a couple of girls out there that. Definitely. Grow some big ones. So you just never know you arrived and then yeah, they waited in. Were you really nervous as they were doing that. Oh. Yeah. Well, and actually you know people are like asking me after the fact where you relieved when you see me twenty, one, seventy, four right before you and I said honestly not because. All these pumpkins throughout the day I mean there was only a few that went really heavy. other mad. They're all kind of going light and so I'm up on stage going just don't let this be a balloon. You know don't let this be a balloon whatsoever and when I see anything twenty, three, hundred, I was happy with. And when twenty, three fifty. Two, thousand, three, hundred, and fifty pounds for your Pumpkin. Holy and so it So you one. Yeah. So we won and with that. We got seven dollars a pound and. Trip to New York and yeah it was Kinda Neat what did you? What did you win in prize money then? So. Sixteen thousand four, hundred dollars. How That cover of Easter costs getting their impact on Minnesota Yeah I always say if you take the second or third, you know probably not. Probably. Equal thing there you're not making any money but Yeah, I, definitely do. All right everybody wants me to ask you the question as to how you did it. What was your secret? So. We there is no secrets in grow needs. It's all nine but you know I, started pretty early with my steed I watered quite a bit I've got great soil that have been modifying for. At, least four years now. So I've been building up that soil and then I fertilize quite a bit to then. Let the fertilizer in. Well, you just gave away the I. Guess this year a secret, which is whatever you're modifying that soil with right? Yeah. I would say I mean you you can do whatever you want but if you don't have the key ingredient of good soil. It's it's tough and and so you're in a no cut Minnesota. Yup. We growing this on a farm? It's it's like you can kinda consider it a hobby farm, but it's more than just a regular place with a backyard. A. Huge space you pumpkin in your backyard. Yeah. Yeah. Like literally walk out the door and it's right there and you have good soil. Yeah I didn't when I first moved in for sure. But even feeding it with. So Seaweed. So it's like a seaweed kelp mixture, right? And that's what it pretty much coast on all season. Maybe a little bit of potassium. For pumpkin. It all depends a lot of guys tissue testing soil test and I didn't really do much that this year I just Kinda knew what needed from years prior. And just gave it a little bit of everything. It's kind of weird shape. Isn't it? Will this one's actually great shape I? Mean this one's just. Fairly, round, fairly orange, whatever compared to most better this size can you make a Jackal Andrew none of it? Yeah. We we will. ACTUALLY WE WILL BE MAKING A. Big Tiger because it was nicknamed Tiger Kings. So it'll be all relief carved and look like real for. Okay. So you had the the biggest Pumpkin, the heaviest Pumpkin in North America this year but I understand there I mean I have some giant Pumpkin stats here that apparently twenty eighteen was the the largest in the United States from New Hampshire twenty five hundred pounds. Yup. And the largest if you if you're going for a world record, the largest heaviest Pumpkin in the world twenty sixteen the European Championships in Germany two, thousand, six, hundred pounds. Yes Cronin Belgium in climate controlled greenhouse. Okay. Oh Wow. That's not fair. Yeah Yeah actually I mean most people had this level kind of grow climate-controlled greenhouses and. Skipping hard not to compete like that. They're not growing it in their backyard like you. Yeah. Yeah I mean we have five process before September eighteenth. Well Travis big congratulations to you. Thank you. All right. Have a happy Halloween. Appreciate it. Thank you guys. Bye Bye. Travis Game Pumpkin One, the big prize at the Safeway World Championship pumpkin weigh off in California he spoke to us from a NOCA- Minnesota you can take in his giant Pumpkin called tighter king on our website CBC DOT CA slash I H. Do the work from three. UNCANNY four is a show at the intersection of race and personal relationships that untangled the uncomfortable offensive and sometimes downright racist moments that inadvertently occur her with our family friends and colleagues come examine our biases together and learn how to do the work of being anti-racist. You can listen to do the work wherever you get your podcasts. There ought cars that take you from a to B. Then there's the new mini countryman the mini SUV with space for every escape all drive for every road and minis renowned handling boot. It won't just take you from eight to be. It'll take you everywhere. You want to be inspire your drive in the new mini countryman the many SUV, explore it for yourself by taking a virtual walk around at many don't see A. US President Donald Trump tout's the endorsements he's received from police unions across the US. He's listed some of them at the first presidential debate. But some black police union members are not only embarrassed by those endorsements. They are angry Philadelphia's first black female sheriff for one called the National Police Union support for president trump an outrage. The endorsements come in the midst of months of demonstrations over police violence and systematic racism within forces. Terence Hopkins is the President of the Black Police Association of Dallas. Texas. We. REACHED HIM IN DALLAS. Mr Hopkins I know you got a call just yesterday from an officer who was quitting the Dallas Police Association, which is your main police union net because of the endorsement of Donald Trump what did that officers say to you? Well he basically made statements regarding how? He wasn't reached out to. For his feelings regarding that endorsement. The how does how how does he feel about that endorsement? Well he he doesn't feel that it. It reflects what he believes as a black man I and as a black officer is it because Donald Trump has said racist things and has endorsed racist physicians. Well, you know pretty much. I mean when you look at the campaign itself, some of the statements he's made I mean there's a large collection of people who believe that he does not do enough. To stamp out racism and when you're talking about minorities, that's a a very hot topic. Years is not the only one that has association that has endorsed Donald Trump. So are people feeling black police officers feeling betrayed by their unions. You know I think it would probably have to say that to a certain degree because again if a large segment of society regard him as someone who doesn't stand up to defend are in opposition to racism then you're pretty much just as much for it. So a lot of minorities are feeling that he promote that doesn't do enough to stop it or ended so they don't want to be associated with any groups that support him. But is it your feeling or is it? They're feeling? You can speak for everybody but is there a sense that that the these unions actually endorse or support? Donald Trump's statements is position on white supremacy and on some of the other racist tropes that he has indulged in I mean do they Are they supporting those ideas is that a feeling within your union? That is a feeling that has been expressed to me by some for sure. That's your fellow. White police officers support the ideas of white supremacy. Just? That's that's been expressed to me before. Yes, ma'am. What's it like for you to hear that expressed you among from your colleagues? You know what's hurtful and and you know I've never been one to paint with a broad brush and I know a lot of white officers don't feel that way but it's just the relationship and knowing some of the things that he's said before that have been so insightful that rubs a lot of folks. The wrong way because when we look at policing people want to believe or feel that they are safe with their police officers and and when you see something like this, what I get from a lot of African Americans is they feel that if you've supported someone else who supported some type of hate than how are you out there policing? Those minorities that you're sworn to treat properly protect to serve. Is it at all possible that some are worried about what they've heard from liberal politicians who are calling to defend the police. Is it possible that some of that endorsement of Donald Trump comes from from that camp For. Sure. You know the funding issues been another hot topic. It's been a political play from certain sides that you know. If you don't go this way, you're police departments will be funded and you're not won't call. We'll go unanswered. So you know now it's just made so political and weaponized. You know that in itself creates major problems. How. Much more difficult has this made? Being a police officer being a black police officer. You know there's so much division, the police officer associations and unions and police themselves want you to be on a certain side. The community wants you to be on a certain side So I, it's just tough all around. It's not an easy time right now our country. How unusual is it for police union steps you make a presidential endorsement. Well. This is my thirtieth year law enforcement I. Just do not recall it ever happening here in Dallas like this is not the norm. You must have seen it coming though, and we saw police association leaders on stage with Donald Trump supporting him even after George Floyd even after all of the different cases of of the films, we've seen the videos of black people being killed by police that they have been strong supporters of Donald. Trump's politics right and that's what makes it so difficult you know it's like you know we're we're split down way lines and you know I it's not good. Get any better anytime soon. And show you know there are a lot of what if scenarios being bandied about that following the results of this election. There might be violence that there might be violent reactions to that vote and so. How difficult is it going to be to actually police when there's a perception that the police are in in bed with with one side of that election or is definitely gonNA be harder it's tougher already. So, yeah down the road. If certain things take place I think it's going to be a lot harder owners in this country has law enforcement when we deal with minorities. And that is a potential reality. Do you worry about what's going to happen in the days after the election. I do that is actually part of my job with protest groups and and the marches and demonstrations and things of that nature. So yeah it it worries me. Let's see greatest fear. Is that violence and may break out at somebody's demonstrations and protest? You know we we all. Want everybody to exercise their First Amendment Rights. But you know we we know that sometimes that comes with the violence. Mr Hopkins will leave it there. Thank you. My pleasure. Terence Hopkins is the President of the Black Police Association in Dallas. Twin Democ by now, you may have heard the term it's something doctors warn could happen when both the flu and cove nineteen are circulating this winter, and if it's a bad flu season. Doctors fear that hospitalizations could overwhelm the healthcare system. The good news demand for the flu shot is way up but some family doctors in Ontario say their early supply is already drying up the health minister says, the province will be receiving a large shipment of shipment of the vaccine soon to meet the demand but at least one Ottawa doctor is comforted by those words, Dr Ali Khan Abdulah spoke to CBC about his concerns. I got one hundred, ten doses when I normally expect five hundred typically gets fifteen hundred over a month and we have no idea what the next shipment was coming. How many high risk patients do you have who will need this vaccine I? Of calculated the numbers we have about three hundred and thirty under the age of five or one thousand over sixty five and many hundreds that are considered high risk. So let's say two thousand total. So how are you going to decide who gets the vaccines first season that exactly the rub right you know the hundred and ten we'll go to the ones that are coming in that meet those criteria, and then we'll go through the alphabetical list. We really can't triage who are the highest risk of those two thousand and we have to hope that by the time we're done another batch comes in. The health minister said that there are no shortages of vaccines. We got a statement saying that the province has ordered more vaccines than other years it'll just arrive in multiple shipments why in your view is that not good enough So the the minister is not incorrect. They did order twenty percent more. The problem is, is that they created advertising You Know Marketing Plan that let people know that flu vaccines are the absolute critical thing that they need to do. So they've created artificial demand a bit of hysteria. So to speak, and in fact, if you think about it, I was supposed to get five hundred I got one, hundred ten there's no excuse for that. There's no explanation for that. There's no one you can talk to about that. You may have enough supply, but if you can't get it to the people that actually need to give the shots that there is a problem in policy. What is the risk in some of your patients waiting a little bit longer for the vaccine? The risk is the is here in the community people are exposed to with in addition to the possibility of Covid, and then therefore they're worst outcomes for their health. So we do want to get the job done within a month, but if we're getting one hundred, ten vaccines in whatever frequency, we're not going to get to the numbers that we need to get to. That's unacceptable. That's Dr Ali Khan Abdulah speaking with auto morning host, Robin Bresnahan about his dwindling supply of flu vaccines. Inc.. The French government is investigating more than fifty French Muslim organizations and bowing the shut them down there responding to a gruesome beheading of a schoolteacher on Friday Samuel. Patty had recently shown pictures of the Prophet Mohammed to his class during a discussion about freedom of speech depictions of the Prophet. Mohammed. Ken Seriously offend some Muslims and on Friday and eighteen year old russian-born Chechen stabbed and decapitated Mr Patty police shot and killed the attacker and France's interior minister has said apparently without any evidence that one French Muslim Ngo was quote obviously involved in Friday's attack the NGO He's speaking of is called the collective against Islamaphobia in France or. F-, Marin used to be the spokesperson for. We reached him in. Paris. Mr Mohamed a Francis Interior. Minister has called the organization you used to work for. An enemy of the states, what's your message to the Minister? My a message to the minister is that he should remember the used to be a supporter of our organization when he was coming to conferences and supporting our work in commending our work before he became a minister of interior and before France was on the verge of becoming the first. State to let the far-right govern. Trends. Right. What does he said? What does the government said is the reasons why they have they think that you're NGO is suspicious. Because we criticize Islamaphobia in. France in essence for them criticizing the current Islamophobia in the into county is a way of rejecting the the republic. So they think that's a raising awareness discrimination and hate crime constitutes an act of defiance. Some of the awareness that they say that you are raising with the collective against Islamophobia in France is that the the took your organization took part in a social media campaign against this teacher who has been. And that a father of one of his students had reached out to your NGO for help is that what happened? No it's not what happened. The CIS never incited are shared the video Ara transmitted video via mail WHATSAPP tweeter or any social network for that for that matter. But it is true that the person who shot the video tried after issues the video after he disseminated the video few days later tried to contact the helpline and a clerk at the help line. told him that before taking any testimony. It was advisable for him to take down the video because it could be counterproductive and even dangerous. So not only the wasn't involved in any way in this crime or in the incitement to targeting the teacher but they adopt the exact opposite position by calling for more reasonable resolution and by hoping that the person would take down the video. Did they did the CCF? Your organization? Did it comment? About the teacher showing pictures of the Prophet Mohammed. Tunes was at something that you organization did no they did not comment and they weren't involved until after there was horrible horrendous killing, and after that, of course, the public, the published a statement condemning, of course, violence and expressing support for the victim his family in the community of teachers. You heard about the brutal murder of this teacher Samuel Patsy what affected that have on you that news. Shocked because I'm so involved in the school of my children and I'm so involved with that. We did teach teachers when the when the need health, how did we get it? So wrong to antagonize people like that to the point where in eighteen year old kid from eighty kilometers way comes and kills an innocent man just for lack of discussion justice for lack of dialogue in our French society today, and on one side, we are exposed to terrorist attacks like it's been the case regularly in. France over the last few years and on the other side, we are exposed to racism and the government is now asking us to choose between the two. Can you expand on that? What do you mean about having to decide between the two? Basically what the government is saying is that if you are denouncing criticizing Islamaphobia, it means you condone terrorism and issue are a good. French Muslim citizen have to show your loyalty to the nation. You have to do this by criticizing and accepting the stigmatisation. Organization you have to choose between your faith and your citizenship in any other country. These two parts are complementary in identity but in France now we said that either you have to choose your loyalty to France or royalty tweet your religion as as you. These were to opposed concepts when something like this happened this horrendous murder wh, what's the response within your community with with among Muslims in France do they brace for the other side that won their horrified by what's happened, but then waiting for the backlash against them when this happens people are horrified, but there's some parts within us that he's hoping without saying the worst Oh my God. He's make sure he's not. Muslim. He's make sure the perpetrator is not Muslim and of course, as soon as we discovered that the person has claimed that he does this in the name of Islam we know that we're going to have like one week or two weeks of horrendous backlash the in the media, but we just have to turn the TV off and social networks off and let it pass and hope that our neighbors our friends. Our colleagues will remember that we are human beings and that we grew up together studied together, raise our kids together. The French police are raiding, the homes of dozens of Islamic radicals. They say, they they are probing. More than fifty Muslim associations including the one you used to work at what effect does that going to have on your community the minister has been explicit this morning in the in the newspaper Lack Hawk. And he said that these a rates had nothing to do with the case in an of itself, but they were used to send a message. So he for the first time acknowledged that basically these raids had no specific legal a motivation but they were used. To Hers Islamic Organization to stop criticizing the government and to send a message and this in and of itself, using the states infrastructure and the police to rehearse political opponents are people we did. We disagree with is the very definition of arbitrary measures and we can't confirm that is that the Interior Minister of France did say that the raids on houses in many cases had nothing to do with the murder of the teacher and they were done to send a message. Over there and I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you pick you so much. Marwan Mohamed is former spokesperson for the collective against Islamaphobia in France. He's in Paris. This weekend New Zealand journalists, Tova. O'Brien tweeted Woah that's quite something to wake up to. It was after one of her interviews or as the Guardian called it a brutal takedown went viral. She was interviewing politician Jamie Lee Ross who was just voted out of parliament. He's a former National Party MP and his writing is called. Botany. Miss O'Brien's questioning of Mr. Lee has earned praise and in the US CNN's Jake Tapper tweeted that she has some fans in his country. Here's just a bit of that interview. After a decade in politics full national impede Jamie Ross is out of parliament. The advance indeed co-leader joins me now Jamie Lee, you just described yourself as a loser you. Out of national out of parliament out of botany, your political career is intent. Do you have any regrets? Look? We gave it a good guy this time round we put together a new patty in just a few months time we only gathered one vote it clearly wasn't enough but of enjoyed the opportunity to work with all the people that I have with Advanced Zealand, have another crack it out answering that because I just ask you if you have any recreates you've just been. Part of political movement which has been piddling misinformation during the election campaign. Do you have any regrets? Think we were asking some hard questions about the direction of Covid nineteen if you're asking me about regrets threat three Tim, of course, we could vote on things a lot differently in a the back in two thousand eighteen. But we he now we might have beat and we just melted focus on the street. Why? Why on earth? Did you get into bed with the League Tika? I could see that there was a lot of growth on social media, lot of growth in the number of people coming. Political ambition. Could see. The was people out there who were asking questions around things that I believe in two around freedom and sovereignty for New Zealand and the Plan D MEK no. I've never seen that. He has I've Neve- assume that covid nineteen. So we are asking questions about with the country was going in the right direction know exactly what you were doing your whipping up fear and hysteria among vulnerable communities, Dole. If you look at the mortality right of covid nineteen compared to other fluid. Here I don't. WanNa. Twenty. To on well, if you're GONNA come on, you're gonNA come on the show inside things which it is factually incorrect. I can't do that actually politics all you've known what are you going to do? What are you going to do after this I? Think it's time for a risk but look I've enjoyed the decay that have been in parliament. I think it's been one where I've been up SUV my community of botany of I've done that diligently and the last two years wasn't what? I expected when we hit election twenty seventeen but there's a hold of characters in the National Party to that I. Think we'll be looking back at this tube and thinking that could've been should have done things differently. You said you do have some regrets from the three parliamentary tomb perhaps more broadly in your political career I'm this might be the last time that you're on probably the last time that wheel and bite you wander any apologies that you want to ask you twenty one. I think we all and the National Patty. Bacon. Twenty eight thousand could have done things differently. And that was probably the start of the decline of the National Patty. Had we all done things differently would be in a different position, but it happened we move forward and we focus on the future. That was former new. Zealand politician Jamie Lee Roth speaking with news hub political editor editor Tova O'Brien just after he was voted out of parliament. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One following the world at six. You can also listen to this show on the web at CBC Dot. CA. Slash Aih thanks for listening I'm Carol off and I'm Ali Hassan. For, more CBC PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.