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Drew Barrymore and Dr Aliza Pressman and the holiday episode: is Santa real, weird elf on the shelf issues, making meaningful traditions, and holiday feelings.


The following podcast is a deer media production. Hello and welcome to raising good humans. I'm Dr Eliezer as a pressman and today I'm here with Drew Barrymore and we're going to talk about special holiday topics one thing. That's very important is that you don't listen to this. If there are children listening there are a lot of spoilers but we get lost in commerce and wanting and lists and Santa and Elf is watching and all my God. What are we talking about? Oh my God else is watching or the mentioned bench depending on your we have both right there you go. You're actually your get. Your kids celebrate both. Yeah Mine. Just do mentioned a mansion Johnny Bench except we don't do mention a bench but we do Hanukkah and I will go over. Why what what I think fits together with this idea of gratitude and how in conflict the Elf on? The shelf is with also trying to teach your kids kindness and gratitude. While how about that also Frankie has decided she wants the off the shelf to be out and about all year round so my bet the itself is now a toy and not this pillar of. He's watching you reporting back to Santa like bad. It only lasted a year so I think it's great that she'd said that because that's basically what we're doing to kids. We do this whole thing of elephants shelf often. Somebody's watching you. See if you're good or bad for this one time period and then it's like how in the world can you keep a message the rest of the year. That's completely -pletely in conflict with the L.. Finish off message with the idea of Lake. Someone's watching you for no apparent reason other than to make sure or that you're good or nine hundred ninety and so that's already message. One problem is that we're always saying like we're talking about our kids behavior. Not what they are the elva shelve his leg. No your body Nice and you. Is it the black and white that you don't like you want the more the grays it's actually that is part of it but more for me it's it's labeling the kids as an attribute of Naughty or nice versus today. Hey when you did this thing. It wasn't Nice Is is very different. It feels different than you're a naughty kid you now now. That's a really big thing to say. And then the other part of it. That's tricky is that we're always saying. Listen we don't make arbitrary rules. The reason reason why I you know I ask this of you is because and that helps us to give kids the belief that we have a purpose in our our rules and regulations boundaries. Now all of a sudden. It's like no explanation. It's just what the Alpha Michelle thinks. That's also confusing and it doesn't motivate intrinsic goodness. Because you're just like if it didn't if the Elston see it it didn't happen right the inanimate object that only comes out for her name exactly eleven months of the year now all of a sudden you're suppose to do the right thing with nobody watching do the wrong thing with nobody watching but during that one month something is watching and you will be rewarded for frankly not being nice but for not being naughty. Well I think you know you can sort of chalk up because the world really does like gear up for the holidays like so I can almost see you know and there are different obviously religious beliefs and some of this conversation just may not apply. There's the age old question of when do I tell them Santa Claus Israeli. You should talk to absolutely. Let's just use the Elf on the shelf right now because as I think it applies to a lot of other activities that happen whether or not you actually do Christmas or l.. Finish off L. Financial. How do you keep that tradition? But but maybe tweak it so that it gives an easier message to swallow or do you say like managed care you know. I think you can justify certain things for are like holidays because it comes around every year no one shutting down the holidays anytime soon so I can get behind like we have this. It's time the seasons change. There's you know the music. The food the commercials the the atmosphere the Mary meant like it is really abundant. And so I think that the Elf on shelf probably to me is surrounded by so much backup. He's got so many backup. Backup Singer of everyone holidays holidays holidays. What I have a bigger problem with? Maybe you can help me with. Is Why why. The spirit of taking care of people goes out the window through the rest of the year. Like that is something that I find strange right like so if you are going to take the time to do something nice than have this time of year illicit kindness. Yes how can we carry that over all year and I think that that that part of it is if you can tweak Elvin Shell for mention a badge or any of the other traditions that come with this these wonderful happy times news or merriment as is that to notice the kind moments or make the you know leave a little note. That's making you're kind suggestion or noticing things that we've done right at least there's some kind of message of that's what the focus is and this is just an overwhelming blooming reminder for this month at least then there's it's less about what am I gonNA get. What materialistic thing? I'm going to get which doesn't mean that you shouldn't get the presence and have fun with it and all that wonderful stuff but if you really want this to infiltrate who we are and what these memories are and that they are part of growing kindness you can make this very materialistic time of year a beautiful thing and carry it over the rest of the time and part of that is also truly every single day having gratitude. Alf there is. There's a real. It just made that up is but there is research that if you I want to trade market I'm GonNa go go daddy like a south But there's research that if you write down something something grateful for every day just for a month that it actually makes you feel more grateful and happier and have more positive wellbeing if that's the case that's something you can do with children from the beginning and what they're grateful for is none of our business so we'll four year old say they're grateful for the food on their plate in their family family. Maybe they probably will say more like the ice cream they guy And that's okay. Because what we're teaching them is to take a moment every single day of their lives and say what made me feel like. I'm lucky today I was thinking about you. Know how I always try to like. Make my my kids presents like crafty. Or Hey this Christmas like the gift is really about like we're GonNa do something right and experience yes inexperience experience. Not Everybody can go and travel on Christmas but like doing something and adventure and building. I try to build my kids so that I want to do things rather than have phase you know in that when you start those things early and you treat them like special gifts instead of just the thing that you're doing that day That's on the side then. That's something they crave and long four. which is this quality experience? They're having and I know my mom and we celebrated Hanukkah and she gave and she's just like this for everything she just recently gave my oldest daughter a happiness Fox her her happy box where she just opens it and has it filled with things that she penelope feels like smiling. Okay okay so. Those were the kinds of presents. I got as a kid and I still get from my mom by the way the gratitude Elf the the journaling. They crafty gifts happy box. Those things sound Hokey and can get. I rolls if you start it with seventh graders but if that is part of your you're five and seven year olds those become magical memories over the years and I'm here to say to every parent out there that when you hand over the Happiness Fox and your your kid like looks at you like what the Hell is this that that's okay too. They hear that message. They feel it and they know what you value. I started as soon as my kids were old enough like Stu and three three and four. I started doing wing. You know baby the baby which is a West Coast Organization and you get a family and that family gives you their list and you get presents presents for that family We did stockings with care. That's east coast based that's the same principles Again we should host a list. I will we'll put in the notes I've thought of that. As Asians toys for tots is a great national organization. Because baby the baby doc in the care our city oriented. And if you're not the the reason I suggest going to a local shelter. Church soup. Kitchen is so I started doing that. I found the experience of of giving gifts for anonymous families. which most of these organizations have to do and run it that way for so many reasons security safety dignity. It's all like you can't question their process but four kids. It is hard when they cannot see the Trans Arc really teaching them anything except that you are which is very important to to see that. They're getting that. That is a part of who you what your family values are. But that's not gonNA GONNA do anything more than that and we do it every year and I gotta say it never really runs that smoothly and it will eventually. I do think that it. It's it's the actions sends. It's not the words because I also used to like talk. Isn't this amazing. Like I was writing this. It's a wonderful life. You know like I was literally like. Isn't this great kids like don't you feel the spirit of Christmas or is it a getting through your Dard. Skulls are to be given another take and they're it is looking at me and they're hungry and they're tired and it's after school over running around and it's like Oh. This is not how I pictured this and I think there were times where I thought I just. I'm not going to do this because it's just not fun and I thought you know what I can't give up. What I need need to do is stop expecting that? My kids are having the kun-bae Yaw Oprah moment and accept the fact that if we just do this every a year that routine will eventually click in. And that's why people say actions not words and where I noticed something and this is actually what sparked the idea for me to do this podcast with you and you had your reasons. Was I had a revelation this year and it happened when it's the same with like Christmas. You WanNa Give Bonuses Cheer Butcher Your bus driver your doorman or your mailman and all these things that we do these rituals that are so important again at Christmas dismiss. Why not other times of years but Christmas is I was doing things throughout the rest of the year? There were not Christmas myself. I got scarves arbs as a gift. I was giving the bus driver a bonus. Why did I not have my kids do that with me and it was like the John of a revelation of? I don't need to do this once a year. I do this throughout the year as an adult. We have an agreement amongst adults that we take care of each other. We tip each other. We've got each other's back. We show our gratitude in different ways to nominally or emotionally. You know whatever that that may be. Why do we not bring our kids into it? Then they just see us doing it. They're a part of it. They kind of know how the system works they get into the routine and and you don't have to do this once a year dance like all the sudden. You're a good giving thoughtful aware. And they need to be to you. Know it's so important important that it's so easy to feel thankful when you write why you're thankful so if you write a note to the mailman every month to thank him as a child. You're going to feel more aware of the Nice thing that he does. And when you get a wonderful gift or or a note in the mail a letter that you've been excited about anything you're going to think about the fact that it didn't just appear but a person who did something really nice for you by bringing it had an impact on your day and so I think it's wonderful the idea of committing to finding moments every month every week. Take that are easy and manageable like a thank you note to a person in your life. Even if it's once a month your kids sit down and they think of somebody who makes they better. We'll and Christmas has become an expected exchange in that way. So you're like. How do I make this thoughtful in meaning fall without creating kids who do expect the exchange for themselves? And Somehow we've all gotten the memo that this is important to show people who do things with you in life that you appreciate them. Somehow we all figured it out whether we were imprinted Byron examples in front of us or we just realized it or we didn't figure it out. I think that that's where you just happen. You can be constitutionally more grateful and notice you can have a Ever thought of it that way. Yeah no there are people. There are certain didn't attributes that are are they genetic some of them are are they as the nature nurture it like write a byte. You definitely Eh get more. You know you certainly need to see it but there are certain personality types. empathic you know them you see them. There are certain qualities so envious person a person who is We'll certainly narcissistic that sort of a no-brainer but envy control control. Jealousy those are people that are typically not really great at noticing. What is is there what there is to be grateful for? This constellation of attributes doesn't lead to an easy road to gratitude whereas friendlier people people who are a a little bit more neurotic. Oddly people who have certain qualities that allow them empathy is one of them that allow them to notice What is good around them and what people are doing good? Those people are more grateful than their children are. Grateful it's not you know of course if you are our attribution grateful. You're going to have a more grateful kid and not when they're fife but later you know over time and the other cool thing is is that we as parents forget to thank our children for the things that they do for us over the holidays and other times in the way that those of us who are grateful. Sometimes we'll show others that but when a little four year old gives you a little note or or a drying we tend to sort of like thank you so much and then put it to the side and whatever but we don't write thank you notes for the little presence our kids give us and when you do and and certainly on holiday or birthday or whatever and kids give you what they have to give so even if we wrap you might notice siblings wrapped. Sometimes a toy of there is to give to one of their siblings and that's often like a big deal for them and in your head you're like certainly that's your big give but it is a big give they're doing is saying like I'm even if I'm sick of it. Fine that's natural. Even if I'm you know I'm I wasn't playing it anyway. I am aware that I WANNA make. I want to have the experience of doing thing. Nice from sibling. And in the thank you from the parents or the siblings to each other. They you get to feel that awesome feeling of being thanked which really inspires doing nice things for others because it feels good if Oliver Frankie wrapped opt you know a plastic joke poop and gave it to each other. I'd be like wow. That's amazing and then having them write. Thank you notes leads to each other for those things those are they seem silly. They seem formal. And I'm not talking about this because I'm saying it's the polite thing to do feeling how. How good it feels to thank and be thanked that is highly associated with gratitude? How do you feel when someone gives zero card or gift? That isn't just bought off the shelf in our family. We love a good picture. Gift receiving one or sending when it just feels more personal one more memorable and whatever you're looking for this holiday you can spread lots of joy with custom holiday cards calendars and photo. Oh gifts from vistaprint. It is a grand parents. 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Humans fifty offer expires January fifth. Hi We're Carleen and Jill from breaking podcast and every single Wednesday we chat about the skin hair and makeup. Must that are actually worth the spent. And you'll hear from the industry's top founders. About how they broke into the business with their best selling beauty product. We also deliver the best in beauty tips from insiders like Kim. I'm kardashian makeup artist. Makeup by Mario and hair go root Gen atkin and has video editors ourselves we personally review the damn good products that you need on your top shelf right now. Listen for free every week for your ultimate beauty fix ready 'till like a cherry bomb. I think the holidays evoke a very philosophical internal conversation with us as parents. I want want to raise a grateful child. I want to raise a child that doesn't expect and demand things. I want to raise a child. That is a materialistic and only thinks the holidays as an opportunity to get presents for themselves. These are the fears. How do you combat this fears? What actions actions do you take for me? I try to get my kids to be in two more crafty projects for presents. Rather than just like Barbie dream houses else's I tried to say let's do something rather than get something And I try to have awesome. Do an act probably a couple. Because I'm trying so desperately to drive the point home to them You know how of donating and also bring food to local place says and just doing it on a micro macro level I wanna leg hit everything thing and I have a lot of anxieties around the holidays. There's something about the holidays and always like gives me a lot of anxiety because I just think like are my kids where I want. I want them to be at as little human beings and like provokes dot question it provokes that question all of us and probably the answer is is it not yet. Yeah because they can't be will you've talked about that in like mom groups of gratitude is like what are the ages has That you can start to see the evidence of if you actually have a cliche dodgier. Nice child's right. It's not bad to be excited about opening presents under the tree. What's the problem is if you expect that president and then talk get so many that he just tossed them side and it's like more and more and more that there isn't a wonderful about waiting for just something you were super excited about and really experiencing how good that feels and that gets lost when you get along? Yeah so what can you say parents to avoid that. And what is the dialogue to have with your kid to lead up to a present because this all got a drawing Brian from a friend for her birthday and she just like tossed it aside as I was upset. Oh my God. This is the kind of the coolest thing in this pile because it was made but it will probably take till she's in college to get. That was the coolest most thoughtful thing that somebody did. And that's okay because Over time you're planting these thieves and your valuing and every time you get something like that and you are giving things like that but it will take years ears because developmentally it takes you know the first six years. Think about this. They believe if they believe in this. Okay so I did not have have Santa for my kids but we have the tooth fairy and the fantasy stuff that happens in early childhood into this Gogo that fantasy see belief in magic whether it's Santa or the tooth fairy or I can't really think of anything in Hanukkah that is magical right right now but So I'm just going to stick with comparing to vary and Santa when you are a young child. You believe Steve Endless possibilities that anything is possible. And that's what makes you terrified of things. That seem ridiculous but it also is. What makes you so thrilled in your eyes? Light up at the idea of magical Santa or when you lose a tooth that the tooth fairy is gonNA come and it really isn't about getting tons of presents from Santa or money from the tooth fairy at the beginning it's truly just magical tales and then as parents. It's how we grow those stories and if we're not thinking of them as lying to our kids but actually just promoting their sense of magic before that had ends then you can really help kids believe in goodness and joy and have a great experience. What you just said is were promoting their sense of wonder magic and imagination rather than deceiving saving them? which is what we're being told we're doing it first of all? I don't have any investment. I never had Santa. My kids don't have Santa. I have been very clear with them that there are many kids kids who really get so much joy and believe in Santa but I so. I've been very clear with my kids like Santa's not something that we celebrate or believe in in our family but we have lots of things we do believe in and lots of magical parts of our celebrations So that's very important. It's just a nice thing frankly. It's just a nice thing to do. I think that's what's so interesting the way you phrased it like to me. Just I in an instant shared the societal pressure that were as opposed to hold up this ruse and then be. We might be doing doing wrong. By the this is developmentally heart of Childhood in every way we have fairy tales that we have magic they believe in possibilities as they turn about seven eight nine they stop them -sarily believing in them but they are willing to continue if you give them reason into in those moments you might get asked is Santa Real and you might say Oh my God. This is the moment. I don't want to lie to my kids kids but you have to make sure they're asking you what you think they're asking because what they might be asking is. Can I still believe in something like this on my God easy. I'm so into this I really am because that is also. There is no book and for a thing. We do every single year at the same time together. We don't discuss. What do I say when my child asked is Santa Real what are you say? And so depending on their age like if a four year old asks you then go ahead and say well. Let's find out tomorrow when we see if he those cookies or whatever it is that you wanna say. Why don't you write him a letter now? Here side note. Teach kids to write letters to Santa. That aren't asking for things see. I love that the letter can be used used in this beautiful way of communicating instead of. Here's my list of things I want. Because then when a child says Santa Real and then you have them write a letter and and the new are put in a position of having to either buy everything they said. fulfill. You know what's a Unicorn And then you did you get into tricky territory but if you introduce the idea of letters to Santa because you want to learn a little bit about Santa and you want to talk a little bit about about yourself and talk about your hopes and dreams no harm done. Maybe Santa's a great pen pal. Maybe Santa is pen pal. I know the tooth fairy always is stopped by my children's pillows with a note always got new Over the years and then you know my twelve year old and she will not. She'll say this I mean. She will laugh when I asked her. She still blazing the tooth fairy because she's still loses teeth and she's like Yep because what she's saying is of course I don't believe in that you very but I don't want to stop the tradition. Yeah so let's just not go there. A seven year old is not sure. Sometimes when I ask you advice sorry to cut you know. Go ahead sometimes. When I ask you advice you will help me realize something by also also asking my kids something like a little bit of engaging yeah where they are yes and that I find helpful so someone says if a kid it says is Santa Real? Maybe that's a good opportunity to say. Do you believe in and accurate and you can also say what made you ask young. You can find out well. Some of my friends were saying Santa's not real but I'd be so sad and then you could say you know what some people don't believe in Santa and some people do Of A in our family we you know I grew up believing in Santa and Santa's always part of Christmas so you're just keeping magic alive. You're not actually it's like doing a disservice or a scientific scientific harm now as they get older eight nine ten certainly now when they ask again. You you really want to gauge is this information they really want from you or do they wanNA know if you're honest with them or is it really that they'd like to keep the stream of once you assess that you can give them the best answer for that child and there will come a time when you say Santa was so important to me the dream and the magic. Now you're older so I think you can do the science here and now it's our job to figure out ways to make it magical for the younger kids in our lives because when you do things that make people feel magic or joy you feel great right so that ten year old that's devastated that Santa's not real after all can really shift to greet decade of Magic back now. I can give this to other young people and make magic for them so that we can all experience how good that feels instead of just being like. Hey your parents. You've lied to me. 'cause it isn't about truth or lies it's just about magic and then growing into science and practicality. It's so so interesting I'm actually making what you said applicable to me as a parent and how magic I want these exchanges of altruism and philanthropy to be for my kids and they're not because they're too young and too and I'm putting too much expectation in on it and it's what I want. Is that magic. Yeah that that I want them to feel of how good it feels fields to care about people other than yourself. I feel like this year probably. We will be the first year year and several years that I'm going to lake. Take the pressure off and not over. Talk it to my kids. We're just GONNA do it and it's it's GonNa be really simple acts and really doable. And that I need to trust in the rhythm and the consistency of that I will be the thing that will in turn cause the real magic for me is not them getting in the moment. It's them being those people later in life. If it's letting go of the idea that this Christmas this Thanksgiving this holiday season is the one where they're going to go a HA. I am going to save. Save the world and be a good person. Something I always like had this like just dream fantasy about was like the Brown moving box with the sharpie writing on it that just said ornaments and goes in the closet or garage. Shaw such an image and it is such an image and you what I didn't have it image of like. I wonder what that's like to like. Know what you're doing every year that same time I have is now. I have the same brown box. What's that I created? And every year we add to it and it's same ornaments and it's since they can remember. It's the same same thing as you and I have built that box and that box means so much to me That it's it's like something. I vehemently protect and the same name. Vince Corral de you know peanuts album gets played. And The you know are starring or tree was bought at a drug store. I think it was like Dwayne read or something or no. It was a rite aid. Would see it doesn't matter because that's your tradition that's star and the ornaments aren't fancy and and I just want this very pared down Christmas that it doesn't matter if you're from a divorced forced family or a traditional together family. It doesn't matter if you know where you're from or where you're going knowing it's like do you have these memories of something subtle and beautiful and it isn't isn't about the gifts themselves it isn't about the lists and requests. It's about traditions. And I feel like commerce gets in the way of the simplicity of the traditions. And I just for some Mason. That's what I hold like sacrosanct and the holidays and they're so rituals grow people so beautifully like holding onto having having rituals is so important and it's so important for human development and they think this is that time of year where we do get reflective like you know. I wish that I had exactly what I set out to do. which was you know mom? And Dad and grandma and GRANDPA around the Christmas Christmas tree and a Norman Rockwell painting. And that's not what we have and I am convinced Norman Rockwell himself As I was looking at the girl with the shiner painting You know who just has that. Look at her I like he got it he gets that he's not trying to force us to feel like we don't fit the confines of perfect traditional family values And I think that even though most poster looking family emily like believe me. It just isn't like everybody puts the function as best as they can in dysfunctional families. Lease and what I can give for my kids and what I can provide and in some ways I have more means than necessary and in some ways I will beat myself cell phone for a deficit of like. Oh Gosh like I had this plan in it. It isn't that and wait. Were traveling like not sitting around a tree. LAKEN FLANNEL PAJAMAS. Like giving presents to make kids not even understand the concept of like Christmas. No that's good that's fine What does it all mean? It's so there's so much running through all of our minds. Yeah are we giving enough. Are we doing enough like are they getting it. There's I I have driven myself crazy in the spirit of Christmas and I think every time I get that Brown box with the sharpy riding out that it's all okay and something in that moment at least for me as as a parent the only thing I can sort of control. I feel at ease and for that time where that Vince Karolyi peanuts peanuts. Christmas album plays that forty eight minutes span or whatever it is and were doing the decorations on the tree. Something in me always feels okay and like. That's what I need to hold onto this Christmas and that has nothing to do with giving her getting. It's just a tradition. Those forty eight minutes. That box and that music can go everywhere with you yeah. It's a big talks. I feel like that's what Steve Martin is carrying. All I need is on bought a pig five the Seattle but that's why everything else and that's the important thing about. All of this is like we put so much pressure on ourselves selves to make magic and that moment is your most magical moment. And what is your family's Brown box moment. What is that forty eight minute a Christmas album where everything feels common? Okay what is that and can we find that this Christmas this and I I think I might have actually through our conversations and this podcast shifted my the entire focus about what Christmas is supposed to be. I think you helped me find the meaning of Christmas. I mean it's such a good point if you just that's what we can do. We can find Brown box and are forty minutes and that's enough. Yeah and it's okay if it doesn't look the way do you think it's posted. Look it's okay if they're squirmy feelings and it is an all going perfect not part of it for me feeling. Yeah I now. It's just like Oh that's you know this is. This is between Christmas and I'm sorry between Thanksgiving and Christmas and Hanukkah and Hans. I and all the You know or the anti-holiday anti-holiday still all of this can be translated however you want because we're all trying to figure out How to balance magic making with having grounded children who are resilient and kind and thoughtful and that is no easy task and we'd try to fit it in one month I'll give you fifty bucks to that all totally no senate? It doesn't exist and probably has the entire time. She so frighteningly astute. She might not want to be told the answer yet. Yes yeah she knows where she might she might WanNa tell you. Santa brought you a gift. That's fine kids do they. They they start to send you you notes. That are magical it's right. I never noticed that for a towel. Annotate that when your kids start writing from Santa and maybe they are in college at that point we got it like. That's like that's been grand hand off. It's and you know what for some people that's the discussion. Nobody needs to have a real conversation. It's like okay and we're in this together now we're GonNa let but Frankie enjoy this for another couple years at Frankie's probably 'cause believe in forever still believes in Santa and she. She says she doesn't but it's like she's like doing that to be socially. What is one thing that we can proactively do as parents to raise good humans during the holidays holidays? No so it's after Thanksgiving Megan gratitude tree. If you have younger children you can rate on the leaves little things they say. They're grateful for every day at a leaf to these branches. And by my new year's everybody's going to be feeling just a little bit more of that spirit that were so clinging to and wanting so much watch for them to have and it's so quick and easy and it does not have to be deep and they get older it might be a little deep. What does the tree look like? Can you do like a little bonsai onsite tree with like little tags. Yeah I hadn't even occurred to me. I was thinking yes you could do anything. You want a Banzai with tag you could create a stick with lights exact ring and a posted and put that in a vase. You can get real. You can go to Michael's and get Branches fake branch uh-huh and Have Gold branches would colored branches and put them in a vase and ties string around tag and every day again. Put that tag up. Cut Out leaf shapes. Well it's interesting because it makes me think like Oh like the wish tree but wishing for something is not the same thing as being grateful for something same thing and that's kind of the whole crux of Christmas as you're wishing that search for something instead of just what you're saying is I am. I'm definitely running out like two michaels getting this gratitude tree because it almost took me back when you said that sounds like you. I was into like my brown box. Somme tree decorating and my forty minutes. Vince Crawl d like but that didn't include gratitude. I was grateful for that. immonen grateful for that moment and I want to bring my kids into that gratitude. And that's why you're filling out the gratitude tree to and you will write that down and if you write the same thing every day they're gonna see it and if you read a different thing every day that's what you'll see. MLC what I think is very important about gratitude tree or journal or even even the word gratitude is that we're just doing these things we're not saying you need to feel really grateful Howard's saying so. What makes you feel happy today? Let's put it on the gratitude tree but it's not like because you during this holiday season and that that will got that's me every year. I'm not getting that as me nutshell every single year. So that's that's maybe a part of the the challenge for the grownups is which is so hard. Because you're like Oh my God you're getting so much and the I it's okay if the ice cream goes on the gratitude tree that day it's the and the trusting and if you get that five dollar pie and take it to someone somewhere and don't make a federal case of it for your children about why this is so important and wonderful do it. You just do it you just do it. And over the years it becomes part of them the same way. It's a part heard of you because in the same way we don't want our kids doing things were not doing things because the elephants shell for the mench on advantages watching them. We don't need them to give us credit for being grateful and generous and doing good things for others. We just need to do it and they are watching. Well I feel like I'm going to go into this holiday with less expectations myself and for that. I'm grateful for you. Thank you for listening. If you have any questions I'll be starting again with listener cuny next week when I have Susan in Kaiser Greenland a mindfulness expert and educator specifically talking about practices to promote gratitude. We're GONNA GONNA just keep continuing this conversation during the holiday season and if you enjoyed today please don't hesitate to subscribe rate and ride right a little review I in the spirit of Thanksgiving and the holiday season. Want to express my gratitude to all of you. Who've who've taken the time to listen to the podcast and send in your questions and thoughts and feedback and give me so much support? Have a wonderful week

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