Tigers Offseason Special 2019-20 Edition with Brandon Day from Bless You Boys
Brennan of bless you boys joins us to talk to the Detroit Tigers. We talk about the fact that everybody in the two thousand fourteen rotations a world series. Now we talk about the farm system we talk about the current team does Karen everybody etc.. We hope you enjoy welcome to painting corners. Here's your weekly gas or all things baseball. Now here are your host Austin Hartsfield and Dave could count scheme. It wouldn't be tigers podcast if we didn't start out with the probably the biggest tiger lead of the entire off seasons of our Brennan. How's that are you? At the fact that every single person in the Tigers rotation has a world series ring now I would have been really sad if he told me kind of back in the day but as it happens like at this point you know I'm jaded and depressed and actually usually rooting for those guys to get the rings as Bentley. Only fun part of the fast for years. The only really fun part. So I'm not I've not the one to be too bitter about it. It would really suck it like you know some of these guys. If Justin Berliner had been stuck here this career number one a ring I would hate it that all right with it I you know. Maybe I'm just getting old and I've been in writing about baseball too long but I start to root for players as much as teams and all those guys are good guys It was it was cool to see Anibal Sanchez. Especially after kind of now. Look at my career was going to be over although yes of course it is also an indictment of the Tigers coaching staff. He's a weird one too because he kind of had like a revitalization finalisation with the braves last year. And then he gets this chance. Yep He's one of those guys who just Kinda got caught by the homerun revolution. You know he was a big sinker ball guy. sinker slider die and As he lost last city he just had to nibble too much to survive. Because all these guys are just going down in golf in the ball out on him and yeah the Tigers. Just couldn't figure it out I I wrote about it may deter sinker us before seamer and he did that and kind of developed the cutter as well which is the other part that helped him because his slider was just was just not working out for him anymore either so he you know he got in shape again and changes picnics. And not and that worked out but yeah it's it's frustrating as hell when someone is you know I mean I'm okay. Hey at this but like you know when you can look at and be like maybe he should stop throwing the pitch. Because it's getting killed. Anybody ever suggests this to the Guy I don't explain me. Why on his modern hall of fame invalid? Why Lou Whitaker should be healthier? I think the I mean the most basic reason is that if you look at his career war rankings just to put it in simple war terms. He he definitely belongs in there. You know that there are three or four Career second basement. Who are in the hall of fame who are below him in terms of career war? I think there's a pretty good argument. He made that he was a more valuable player. Alan Trammell was and kept his value deeper into his career Lou Whitaker always had a little bit more power on he he was sort of like to. I don't even know who I compare Alan Trammell too. 'cause they don't travel with smooth but Louisville was one of those those players who just made it looked really easy on a never really never really said much wasn't a guy who would talk to the media very much and you know his teammates. I think Canada's took that the heart and you know I'm just Kinda it stood in for him whenever that was required and yeah I mean he was just used as an all around fantastic player. Did everything well and did it. All for a really long time time like I wouldn't put him in the top fifty greatest players of all time I wouldn't say that we've been you know like feeling like it's super egregious wrong but he definitely belongs in there and I think you know he in Trammell together are pretty historic double-play combination. Like maybe the best ever. Certainly the you know the combination that did it best the longest And we're such a huge part of that eighty four team and the you know they're just an iconic payer and I remember even as a kid like looking over at like like Ryan Sambergen comparing statistics and stuff like that and you know Luebecker matched up with him and beat him. You know a lot of years so it was kind of it was kind of always in our mind that You Know He. He's a guy who should get in trammelled finally got in You know I don't think a lot of necessarily thought that was all going to happen once. Trammell and and Morris got in there that was sort of the push obviously ellen trammell in his In his speech and all that and throughout the whole year long festivity of getting inducted really really made the push and I I think in the end that's going to debt created a little bit of publicity that Lou witter liquor would never generate himself just because he's just a very retiring kind of quiet ma'am him and Yeah so I I think it's I feel pretty Catherine it's going to happen and I think honestly if you look at the if you just break down the career numbers it's it's he's not right like you know. Yeah like I said. He's not like an absolute lack but compared to a lot of other guys who were in there. He's he's definitely a guy who belongs pretty. Obviously so I think he's I. I think he's got a really good shot. I'm I'm expecting us and I probably shouldn't but I got about all right so brandon take us through this season. I know we talked about this. Pre show show the Tigers finished forty eight in one hundred and fourteen Alessio Orioles. Why seven games take us through the pain of Tiger Span During a season like this. Yeah I mean I think we're all start it helps to remember now that it's The Tigers are five seasons now for making the playoffs And I think because you know they retooled and kind of wet for it again in two thousand sixteen. I'm an an and did a few. I mean if you're going to go forward again in that situation you're GonNa do some things that look long-term foolish. They really kind of outdid themselves. While Mike Illitch was alive and as a result you know it kind of kept US hanging on. I think longer longer we had to like. I think we're really only like two years into the fan base. Really like especially like the the the kind of more casual fan really kind of absorbing and coming coming to terms with the fact that we're just not you know we're not going to get any more and are a long way from being good again so I think it took some time and I really think like this preseason was win you know heading into spring training when people were were looking for those optimistic takes hung from the beat writers and everywhere and not finding them at all anywhere where it all SORTA. They hit the fan base. That like. There's no reason to have you know. have any real expectations for the season. And you're just hoping that they do well in the draft and committee developed a few people at the major angelique level and and on the farm and I mean my my fundamental impression of this season is just how boring it was. It was just really boring. You know it was really hard to cover. It was at that thing where you have like one or two guys who are playing great you know and everybody else is just kinda sucking it up. It was you. You Know Matt Boyd. Kind of had his. You know first. Half breakout and then faded Spencer terminal you know Kinda came on but you know other than that. There just really wasn't even anything to hang our hat on Shane. Green had a great season as closer. I'm in the first half. We actually did have some some save opportunities and he was able to convert all of them all the way up. I think other than one up until the time he was traded so it was such a binary sort of thing which we're like. You know one engaged for series. The Tigers of the inland in the series are in the game. I mean and probably would pull it out if they had the lead because they had that going on and the rest of the time. There wasn't really anything to really pay attention to There just wasn't that much to watch you know there weren't too many Prospects called up. Obviously our top prospects are still you know they had twenty twenty at some point. I think a lot of them will be up next season but we didn't believe have too many really interesting guys up this season until you got August and September so I mean it was a slog. The Tigers had this knack for coming out like the first two weeks of the season and winning a whole bunch of games and getting people excited and the candidate that but this this season it faded faster than it has an seasons passed in the park was pretty empty. most of the season season. So it's you know it's just been grim. It was just a really long long season. That didn't even really have the up and downs to sort of toy with your emotions. It was just sort of like yeah. Well there's nothing on TV so let's watch for a lot of the season for those of us covering it and wants to hear me complain about it but yet it's just You know a lot of us at the site and other people I talked to. Who Do Tigers podcast right about the Tigers on other formats? You know we would all be pretty excited you you know to to be in an actual rebuild where it felt like the front office had a strategy Heads had some things that was working on was aggressively pursuing players that they liked even if they were wrong. But it's just been really passive As compared to you know people always want to drag it back to all the astros rebuild or the cubs rebuild and. It's so far divorced. From both the circumstances though to those two teams went through and just in time that yeah. It hasn't even really been that exciting like where I am hoping that next year with them. Casey is Matt Manning. Some of those guys getting in close proximity to the to the majors. That will finally at least have that that stuff to kind of Sink our teeth into because I covered the minor leagues for the for bless. You boys pretty much all season long and that was just way more way. More compelling way more interesting Ben than having to write about the Tigers at all so let's let's go ahead and jump into the positional situations. Give me one word to describe the Tigers correct catching situation and why replacement it level shelter. Sarah's Jake Raj by the way high school where actually live. Oh all right. Yeah I mean I I like Jake Rogers. I think he's he's going to need more time to hit on. He's got a lot of swing and his game and he does have some some swing flaws He's an interesting case because he coming from the Astros he had sort of like the type of modern approach or at least a Homerun era approach. That we've been kind of screaming at the Tigers for being like the the complete antithesis of you know we're still in Lloyd. mcclendon attend mcclendon lane where you know they want you to play pepper. They want you to use the whole field. They WANNA see line drives. They don't WanNa see you guys. Lean back and trying to pull pull the ball on the air and Jack Rogers came to us with that approach and so maybe and probably had is one of those guys that may be too much of that approach a little bit So baby he's a guy that they can actually improve without like totally revamping the player development system as I as I kind of wish they would do so jake. Rogers is pretty. Get behind the plate. You know there were some flaws. Though on he had quite a few pass balls this year overall both in the minors and the majors has always been regarded as a really good thrower. Really Good Framer We saw the throwing some of the other elements to his catching behind. The plate weren't so great But of course you know when a catcher gets it's called up there's kind of a whole learning curve honestly in front of them especially if your farm system doesn't prepare you well and that's you know that's kind of an ongoing theme that a lot of guys you know what they come to. They show up to the Tigers for the first call up for Stan and you can almost guarantee that within the first week. There's going to be some some comment from Ron Gardenhire about you know. Well you know we'd like to see guys play a certain way we need to see the fundamentals. Be More sound than this. You know Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and. That goes with an end but no one ever seems to get to the point of A. Why aren't they picking up all the fundamentals in the farm system like why? Why do they get here? You have to you know. Teach them to but they. Yeah just like you know. Kennedy's fundamental fundamental mistakes. Get made so. This is all a long winded way of saying that I still think Jack Rogers Has a decent chance is to be a solid starting catcher but none of us really ever thought he was going to be. You Know Adly rush obviously or even joey bar necessarily so that that's a position that I would really like to see the Tigers address this off season in free agency It showed up. I think in terms of like the pitching staff and who we ahead you know having good seasons that we were able to trade away for prospects which is theoretically the program that we should be at right now but you know we had like John Hicks. Who really really isn't even a catcher Played catcher part time. They went into the season with him. Rookie completely unheralded rookie in Grayson Greiner. Who Most of us didn't really you ever think would even be a major league back up and that was that was the starting tandem and you know it doesn't matter from from a win perspective but it also matters from a development my perspective? And if you're hurting that Boyd's value behind the plate or you're hurting Daniel Norris's attempts to make a comeback or Spencer. Terrible coming in as a rookie You know you're hurting the rebuild not dislike. Well he caused us this game or reminded cost us that game It's fundamental issue throughout the whole organization when you don't have solid catching and there's just happens to be Let's see let me just take a quick look here because there is a whole bunch of Good free Good solid free. Agent catchers that would be upgraded here from Jayson Castro on picking up a guy like Ravi Torino's Swedish saw Alex Visa's GonNa stay in Arizona but that was another idea like someone who could place them. I betas someone who actually has some plate discipline Someone who we picked up for a half year in twenty seventeen and he had like the best first half of his is his career and got us a nice prospect return John Gomez Martinez Maldonado. All these guys are available so that would be like front and center on my shopping. The the off season so I know where I I. Based let's touch on Miguel Cabrera for a second overall. I mean considering. All all the circumstances he's he had a decent season he's been just battling third Because I am sorry I gotta ask No. No no no I was. I was is getting around to the same thing. Yeah you know I honestly the power numbers are probably You know this is probably how it is. What's weird about me? Go Cabrera is that he still hits the ball really hard he still looks like Miguel Cabrera except for the fact that he just he can't drive off that back leg anymore and it's all because That right knee is pretty much bone on bone for most of the reports. I've read and there isn't a whole lot. You can do to fix that. You know he went into this offseason talking about diet nutrition nutrition and maybe it was time to really really aggressive With the Diet. But it's just really hard like what you get to that point. It's really hard to. It's hard to lose wait To take the pressure off that knee because the pressure's already on that knee and you're in a lot of pain all the time. And he still got fantastic hands He's one of the smarter cities I've ever seen. And he will absolutely smoke some hard ground balls all over the all over the Infield but he does and this is. This is kind of going back three or four years. I remember like maybe Twenty fifteen or twenty. Sixteen I was I was right in preseason that you know his his average velocity was still you know I in the game at that point He's still had more barrels. You know than than just about anybody in the game then but he wasn't hitting as many fly balls and debt has turned out to be the precursor to him. You know just more and more not really being able to lift the ball park you know you have to pull it for the most part like McGaw Cabrera Jd. Lemur Tina's like those guys can go deep to center almost almost at will and when they were both going good back in the day it was incredible to watch some of the just the monster shots. Those guys would hit But you know he's got a he's got to figure out a way to lift the ball in the air and pull it and all of that. Is You know pretty much undone by that right knee so you know. Maybe there's something that can be done but Short of him like you know going crazy Vegan. I'll off-season somehow losing like twenty five thirty pounds. I just have have a hard time. I mean this happens with every player coming into straight and you know in the best shape of their life and we've had plenty of those stories from Miguel of the past couple of years and I'm sure he you know he puts in the work in the off season. You know the way most players do but he's just at a point in his career where there's so much more required and I think that you know the ship is just kind of sale Him having the the physicality laugh to even be able to get himself in better shape from their self yet. It's not good on that score. You know. Obviously we're still paying in a thirty two million a year for another. I think five five seasons on that mistaken by four seasons with an option after that. So yeah I mean it's it's Kinda over like we've already had like the two or three seasons of sort of waiting for the you know the late period revival where he has a year or two where he looks like an old his old salt. I'm I'm afraid that this isn't going to happen but you know we talked about this before you know like you would expect it. He can go he can still go to a place like New York you know. If the Yankees wanted them sort sort of a part time the age you would think he would still be able to go go to a place like that and hit you. Twenty five. Thirty home runs based on his strikeout-to-walk ratio. How hard he hits the ball? But it's just he just cannot disconnect lifted disconnect catch balls out front and drive them in the air anymore. And there there's this really kind of no remedy for any of that Fred. Going to the real first baseman for the Tigers Brandon. Dixon are you are you at what what are your. What are your thoughts on him? If Brennan Dixon was twenty twenty five I would be interested. It's just that I think he's going into his age. Twenty eight season He doesn't walk. He's not patient he does have pretty pretty a big time power and if you watch a little bit mechanical but he actually does have like a pretty nice. You know At least at least pleasing to the eye swing swing You Know He. He's a guy who can definitely drive the ball and he just doesn't selected pitches and I. It's hard for me to to look at him and and and see a real major leaguer there you know. He's he's sort of a guy who maybe you would have now that we have twenty six spots You know maybe he's the guy you put on the bench and he would play part-time pinch hit against lefties as late gains that kind of a thing but yeah he's He's definitely not a long-term answer. And I really you know. I've just had a point where I would like to get most of these guys and just just move them off because the Tigers are in bad enough shape where you know the the leavings of a lot of the better teams are way better than than anything. We've we've got at most of these positions uh-huh and rain Dixon and try them but I don't really see any any long-term viability there. He's got some power. He's like a nice bat to have on the bench. You know that kind of thing but yeah not selective enough. Do you think the worst button baseball right now. Just in terms of farm roster everything as a whole. Yeah I do I really do. I mean you could still argue that the illitch family you know if things start to turn around is more likely than plenty of other owners to spend but but even that I think is under question at this point They now and Chris Illitch. Is the team president. They they don't seem real interested Or real engage like when when they give commented. It's really the most you know kind of surface crap possible and they've cut payroll. I think doc ID twenty seventeen. We started out the year at like two hundred ten million and I think we're projected ninety million ongoing this season so they've absolutely slashed all that I You know we've got two big contracts left to go cabrera adding into Jordan Zimmerman's final year after that. I think they will probably spend some money. But I don't think we're ever going to see the the one hundred and eighty million plus Kind of no matter what happens. And there's a a strong prevailing sentiment I think that The Crystal would and most of his siblings would like to sell the team At this point you know. They paid like his dad paid. Eighty two million court back in like ninety one ninety two and you know I mean they could probably get one point two billion now so I can understand why to walk away and And I think most of us would like them to sell the team at this point to someone who's a little a bit more engaged because yeah they seem really pretty much hands off like Hey al Avila whatever you do is fine. And we don't really care what happens will come out there once or twice a year give give the spiel about you know the rebuilding effort and the prospect and Blah Blah Blah. But yeah there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of urgency there at all Really no expectations of any and he sort that anyone could discern last thing before we move on a second base. Is there any long-term solutions in the system at all adversities. There isn't one that I would say is any anything approaching like a fifty fifty shot. I think a lot of us. Think that Kristen Stewart who the Tigers had left field the season season. You know. Hit his way through the minors really. Well has power a good hitter but a terrible terrible like delmon young esque leftfielder might end ended up moving to first base Jamar candelaria unfortunately has been a disappointment like he He's the guy who looked really history when we first got him and is actually seemed to regress. He's had a Hamate bone issue in. I can't remember which risk but one of his wrists. That's that's something they can't really repair. And that's always is linked in the background. Like maybe this you know. He's just not a guy who's who's going to be able to You know putting enough work to get better you know simply based on that alone so yeah. I don't really think there is much of a of an answer. This guy that we drafted this year. I think in the sixth round of Bryant Packer who some of us like you know. He six rounder. You're you're you're not expecting a whole lot but But he's got power and discipline Some decent hands. He's a guy who maybe could come along and play first base for you but right now there really isn't there really isn't solution and when we were talking about Shane. Green Trades at the deadline and talking about the red sox. You know that that was one of the reasons that you know Trista cash is kept coming up because we you know. We don't really have anything that that excites over here on that score of so you know there may be. I don't really honestly I for space is one of the last positions. You necessarily need to worry about but Yeah I don't really see us I'm racking my brain throughout the minor leagues exit. Think of anyone who might even be a long shot to play that position in the future. I don't really think we have anything like that. Or just gotTa take on Spencer Torkelsson you know with the first overall. We're all pick next year. That's the point right now. Let's go to a position that makes me sad because I asked you this question last year and I have to ask you this question again. This year please tell me Clinton is going to baseball cody. Clemens is good at baseball dude like like anybody who makes it to the AA levels. Great Baseball laking credible baseball. A top. Like what's wrong with the fact that he doesn't have a position would I'll say this recorded comments. He's he's not one of the guys who have like others. There's just no chance His swing is just long. There's there's too much swing and Miss Castle a still in his game and he doesn't complement it with enough other tools you know. He doesn't really have much in the way as speed. He's an okay defender. But he doesn't Doesn't have much much of an arm so he can't really even play like recant. Really project them to right field if the bat did come along. Yeah I mean he's a guy who's who's just got a very narrow path after the major leagues and it's got some you know he's got decent plate discipline and he definitely has some some good raw power but it's sort of a clunky kind of mechanical swing Without really great You know contact ability. He just doesn't have the hands to get to to get the pitches away from him. He's still got a whole will for sliders down in in that you know standard for prospects in general but looks a lot further from from being solved that would be. I think that he might figure it. Out But You know in the tiger system went. He's probably like my maybe third or now like fourth or fifth ranked resist position player. And this is how talking about him. which tells you that the Tigers position players on the farm? It's not there's not a whole lot there but I haven't given up uncoded clemens but I think like by the end of next year. We'll know like you know he. He looked all right. He didn't look totally overmatched. Aa only got in maybe a week or two you up there. So he'll be at W I think most of the season and By the next season will know. It'd be nice if it worked out if he can shorten things up. Get a little little bit stronger a little bit quicker with the bet. There's still a chance I'll say that much more excited. You said there's still a chance in like em like the little longhorn inside. My heart was like yes. That's good tell me a chance. Yes let's go I. I'm I'm down hooked horns. It'd be like the most successful loan for to the major leagues right now outside of Brandon Bell relic which is. Oh yeah thanks. Very Sad Yeah yeah that's great You know let's go ahead and talk about the rest this is this. Is this the year and we just got AA this year. Do we see as the major league level this year. Yes yes and if we don't I'm GonNa frigging riot relieving what they're waiting for now You know if it was me I'd Cana just be ready to pencil in at the third base start the season and you know maybe like if they want a game and you know wait forty games then and then bring 'em up do that kind of thing That that that would be kind of what I'm aiming for I think I kind of feel like Isaac Parade. He's honestly just needs to be challenged a little bit more He didn't hip for a ton of power this year. But he's just such a God damn good hitter He's just a pure contact hitter. You know Draws as many walks as yes he does strike out hits the ball hard lot. The Tigers kind of had him. You know working on unsparing the ball to right field and trying to use the whole field which is sort of their you know their sorta the operating philosophy and he struggled a little bit. You know the first couple months of the season and people were kind of worrying about that but it just felt like they were. They were trying to get him to adopt that approach. Approach a little bit not open up on his hips quite so early in his swing. I'm scandal online a little bit longer and as progress. You know it. It was just it. It was Isaac again. You know just to smoke in the baseball hard all over the place He's still got some adjustments to make. I mean you don't necessarily need rush him I I'm perfectly fine. If the Tigers eggers decide they want to keep them in Toledo until September. I won't be be thrilled about it. Because we'RE GONNA BE PLAYING HOT garbage at a couple of positions but now how is afraid. He's one of the guys who I am. Still very confident is going to hit and is going to develop power more of power approach as he matures a little. But he's still a little. I think twenty one right now. Although you know you never know never know about each for sure with the international guys He's a big boy But he's you know he's man sized already. It doesn't look like there's that much more he's going to learn in the minor leagues and I really would have wished the Tigers had brought them up to Toledo later. Let late this past season. I've just to kind of get them acclimated to the major league ball To See if the ball started flying out for him if he would be a little bit more aggressive arrested about trying to take pitches early accounts and pull the thing out of the park Disarm flying out like that but you know in their wisdom. They didn't they didn't do that. So that's fine wind and waiting for that weird twist and it's going to happen when the bald kind of happened. This postseason the rumblings of air already that like the balls this it can be completely different next year. And all these switch it back. Just like everybody's always GonNa notice before you just flying out everywhere. In Benton to twenty again they're gonNA accidentally only switched the balls the wrong way and make them more flyable and dynamics I literally just saw a tweet from Minor League Baseball Baseball where they were talking about how the Chinese tariff's GonNa increase the price of a batch of twelve balls by fifty six dollars. I think in the next season I didn't even know Rawlings was making the balls in China. I thought they were still being hand-stitched and the Dominican by you know people who give a damn about I don't know I don't know what's going going on. They'd be begging fans to throw the balls back. Yeah exactly we're GONNA cry all my guy. Can you imagine if they would actually let they ran. I am low on balls in some wild shit into this. You know this is kind of a plug and play as like the base of a something that we talked about last year is GonNa be the case again this year or do you think they give somebody else a shake. You know you played Harrison there. He played Beckham there a little bit this year. What does it look like this year? Yeah I mean I. I'm kind of hoping they can find someone halfway interesting to claim you know just like because I have broad whole now some. Hopefully someone younger gets released. You know I mean then might even be a place where they could use the rule five. Pick to find like a guy who plays good defense and Canal. Hasn't figured it out yet. I just wanted to get some young guys and try them. Try something Despite by conviction that does not get a player development so you know they can play Nico Good Room. They're nickel was an above average shortstop. Who can actually hit? And the Tigers didn't didn't stick with them. As soon as George Mercer came back they played Jordy Mercer Mercer shortstop. The tech moving Nick Goodwin played like Centerfield bright field field first base. They had them all over the place but I think he I want to say. He played about forty games at shortstop and posted in above average the arrest and I wouldn't hang my head on I mean Nico is like a nice player. Who has a lot of tools in maybe has a bit of a Got Whom I think of the The twin site last year he played for the Astros. Mr Versus Super Has Yeah. I could see you know a little bit of that kind of career for Nico Gooderham. Perhaps paps but he is twenty seven dollars so I I don't know if there's much more development there for him either but you know he can run. He still some bases. He's got really pretty good power patient at the plate. He Hits a tunnel drives US actually pretty unlucky this year. I'm considering the line drive rate. He put up almost thirty percent He was smoking the ball all on especially in the first half and just kinda battle like a hamstring and growing cat combo meal on in the second half and wasn't around very much so he's an offer me he's part of the the middle infield equation for us next year. But yeah I mean it's just really hard to tell like the Tigers. Have these notions. That don't really seem to match up to reality. You know from outside and that's fine you know if the right but I haven't really seen much much evidence of them being you know more able to predict predict what's going to happen than the rest of us you know public analysts just looking at the stats are watching guys. Play are able to figure out so yeah. I don't really really know what I think. The Tigers are going to do in the middle. Infield is if we wanted to take it cannabis as both positions of this is kind of a black hole right now like Willie Castro who he got four Leonis Martine in two thousand seventeen You know a decent young hitter late kind of a smallish guy who probably isn't hip for that much power but you know the the word on him when we got him is that he was a pretty solid defender that he was going to be major league. Ready defensively at shortstop and you you know pretty soon and he was he was got off last year honestly defensively and a lot of it seemed like mental mistakes like the the fiscal bills. Were still there You know he's still got a a strong accurate arm has Hanson looked but he just he just seems to fall asleep out there sometimes and at yeah I mean seeing him in September I really. I didn't think anything other than like. Yeah he's got a he's got to play shortstop at Toledo next year and work on some of this And I don't know I mean this kind of ties into it Just just to keep noting toward the player development side the Tigers fired their AAA manager. Doug Banquets after one year after signing him to a two year contract contract and I don't know there's a lot of debate about like why. Why they they change directions? They are a couple of the guys like I said like Rogers came up. You Know Castro came up and they end. They just weren't fundamentally sound defensively that like they just looked Sloppy and a little bit mentally overmatched. And so maybe they took that out on Doug Mankiewicz but it also. There's also the perspective that a lot of people who are can insiders have which is that Doug Mankiewicz is just not a guy who's GonNa Bullshit you about like how good your prospects are. And how good everybody's doing you know. He's he's going to tell people you know pretty much straight up. What he thinks and the Tigers are very much in pr mode right now? Because they don't have a whole lot else to offer and I don't think they like that and you know Doug Mankiewicz is kind of an old school guy like you know. He's he's not someone out there You know in the cage studying. Everybody's blache motion data analytics. I don't really imagine but But you know that there is something to say for that you know that kind of final boss before you get to the the major leagues who is really hard on you in forcing you to clean up all the details the little things and that was kind of what he was supposed to be here to do and it seemed like that was what he was trying to do. And it may not have gone that while but Yeah it was a surprise that the Tigers I decided to to fire him and they don't seem to have anyone internal that they want so maybe it was just the fact that so many guys got fired. So many managers and coaches got fired As soon as the season ended that they just feel like there's there's some opportunities out there to pick guard as replacement. I am all for hiring Gabe Kappler installing him as AAA manager and then putting him in charge of the entire player development system. That would you like pay him like ten billion dollars. Whatever it takes to get them to do that for us for two years revamp revamp this whole thing and let's go But to bring it all the way back to the middle. Infield heggers have kept playing Isaac Frady's at shortstop and he played shortstop in the Arizona. Fall at is pretty has good hands. Looks very very comfortable at either shortstop or third base. I'm really strong accurate arm. But he just doesn't really have the range that that you would like to see to play shortstop and so everyone's always assumed he was going to move. But when you look at the way the game is trending and the fact that you know there's less ground balls You know the shift is sort of you know trimming away a little bit at the need to have like super great range out there you know. Maybe maybe they could try to fudge that for a couple years Johnny Peralta every range and really have that good of an arm either but he was just fundamentally sound enough and had the bat and it you know and it made the rest of it moot so they could try that too but if it was me I would just play nickel Gooderham. shortstop do whatever you gotTa do at Third Base until you're convinced that is a craze can come up and play third and then yeah they've probably got find someone to play some Middle Infield and hopefully someone who is released and there's a little bit younger on there just. Isn't that much point to me to having. It's an bringing back. George Mercer or Josh Harrison. I if they think there's some value in the room by having one of those guys there that's fine but I I would rather than try to take a flyer on someone young. I want suggested that I my podcast. Co host has brought up as we could just take up someone like Jason Kipness or as Drubel. I Guess Asdrubal Cabrera one of those guys if they wanted to just to fill in the gaps. But yeah I mean. I'd just rather trying to find like a like a shortstop who has failed looking like that. Maybe Chris owings. I don't know we could plug Chris eggs in there. We had Gordon Beckham this year. Could that'd be any worse I've I've seen I've seen things. You don't believe over there in Boston Brandon moving to the hot corner. You touched on a little bit. What's going to happen at three? I mean you got Lugo go and Castro. What's I mean? What's your outlook for that position? The Tigers are gonNA play Dowa Lugo because they a wasted JD Martinez in trade. and W goes the only semblance of a of a of a real player that they got out of the deal and and he's terrible and they're going to waste time with them Probably for four months. I guess this this season you know that will lugos like a solid defender under. He's got good hands. He's sort of like a like like hell to describe what kind of a history is like. He has good hands. He doesn't strike out very much on swings at everything. If he if wholesale to like sucked you know just didn't have any you know command over the bat and You know could just flip the ban on the ball like just had. I'd like the hand eye to put the battle in the ball could drive it anywhere. Couldn't take any pitches that will go the whole way up through the minors is just like the master of the scorched ground ball. Double Down the line that that sort of his. That's his trademark that's that's the that's the big show. He's a weird guy you know he he has a really Liam. It's hard to explain like just invoice with images is a really rotational. Swing is how I would describe it. he doesn't like drive toward the pitcher so much as he just sort of like spins his hips and and slaps ball hard on the ground and swings. Like a door doesn't swing league. That's a great. Yes that's perfect. He does swing. And you're Kinda guy who he was with a different team. That was a little bit better for it at hitting instruction like if he put on the Yankees I I could see them maybe cleaning up and you know and driving the ball a little bit more in the air. He's probably got fifty five raw power like fifty fifty hit tool but the but the power does never comes because everything is on the ground. So yeah I don't know they're gonNA waste our time with him. I'm sure for a while and there's enough potential there it's like it's not impossible that he could figure it out but it's possible that the Tigers are going to help them figure out. I would put it so yeah I think he's GonNa play about two third base and at some point. Hopefully Tigers will kind of get over that and and just plug. Isaac parades in there but I I expect to have to put up with a with a few months of fulltime dot will Lugo and the you know the people cheering on his every halfway decent moment. God I can feel I can feel already got Birdie inventing the twenty twenty season right now but yeah I mean. There's this kind of how it is. He was the only guy that was that was relieving like a forty five future value. Type Guy that they've got for jd Martinez and so the you know the discounting is going to do their thing and run them out there until we're fed up with it so does Sergio Qatar make any appearance at all. The thing earn. Where does he wound up position wise in the future I mean it's it's not impossible? He might make an appearance but really he's. He's a defensive replacement type guy he is a really pretty good defender of. He's got a fantastic arm is twenty car looks great. Yeah Ah I mean. But that's you know like He. He's a he's a guy who's GonNa play some pepper you know. He's kind of ease another one. Who Sort of Jose glitziest type with less power? But maybe maybe slightly more disciplined so. Yeah I mean that doesn't really anything mayor to look forward to. I'm afraid either. The is a really slick defender. He's like he's a fun player. Watch if you watch minor league ball but yeah. I don't really see him ever having the bats feed to handle the major leagues at all. So yeah he's he's probably a non factor too. I'm afraid ton is is pretty far away too so that'll be a while at that position. I mean is there anybody else in the system. You're kind of excited about as far as enfield guys. Yeah I'll say this I mean I kinda I kinda interested to see what he does. Next year. I liked Andre Lipsius. The the Tigers third round pick like he's he was kind of an. I think he was a four year junior But I think he wasn't. He majored in like nuclear physics. Or something like that. Like a really smart guy who was who had the academic side and probably will go on to to do something in that when when his baseball career is over. But he's a guy who's a pretty solid defender under he's scrappy. He's obviously smart like He. The games I saw him play for the West Michigan whitecaps at the class level. Like he looked like the smartest hitter on on the field for the most part so but again he's he's a guy who's got a small that really bill doesn't really seem to have that much power. He's a guy who I I wanna see now that he's committed to baseball fulltime like what comes out looking like physically next year at an and sort of what he can do in his in his first season. Listen and after. That will probably have a better idea like I don't. I don't necessarily expect a whole lot from him but he does have plate discipline. which is the thing that the Tigers really struggled the draft You know guys who even have have you know the I two ever develop like the. They're just really bad at finding that the Tigers guys who swing at everything and he can put the bat on the ball and they've never really shown much propensity for being able to sort of you know. Teach guys how to how to turn that into you know becoming an actual hitter with with some plait disciplined selectivity. I'd religious might be the guy who can sort of figure some of those things out by himself but he's another one you know he's got a pretty Hansie Swing It's it's not real. Pretty he sort of just you know can kinda gets by being ahead of the game on a lot of people and as the stuff gets better he's GonNa have to get a lot better physically and We'll have to see how it kind of goes in his in his first full season next year. But he's you know he's someone who at least be paying a lot of attention to but yeah. Yeah I mean yeah. infield is is really really weak basically every every position every you know every position on the field is is kind of it kind of up for grabs right now. There's really nobody has a lock on anything You know long term at all but we have a lot of pitching guys. Okay so jumping into the outfield. I mean you really can't start anywhere else. Other than the Nick Calcio. Trade buzzer beater trade at the deadline to you. Top prospects was the return what you thought it would be. And what was your reaction to the triggered. The return was was pretty much what I thought it would be. The and and it really is much. I mean Alex Lang is a a decent relief candidate. Paul resign might be you know might be like a six starter guy Who comes up and and get some spot starts for you down the road but that seems to really be kind of the upside there you know and that's to be expected like teams aren't giving up that much for players especially rentals anymore and nick? Cassiano didn't really have a very good first half the Tigers Really You know I mean pretty much the really mishandled the entire Nick Cassiano situation like I was right in that they should extend them the minute. They traded Justin verlander and JD. Martinez not knows because it was pretty clear that you know there wasn't going to be enough time for nick. Delight move to right field get good at it. Sort of established himself there her and become a trade chip who still had a couple years of control left and they ended up just not. Doing anything really didn't really negotiate on any kind of an extension. You know. There are some rumors that there were some some talks about it but nick put himself out there in a way that players. A lot of times won't do and and really made clear that you want him to stay in. Detroit wanted to be part of turn. Turn this thing around really. Well stay here. His family was all you know he grew up with was kind of all tigers fans. And so this is the place he had always envisioned myself. Kinda came about in publicly. Settle those sorts of things and the Tigers response. You know it was pretty much dial tone and I know that hurt him. You know that they had to hurt him because Nicosia analyst. There's an a particularly good player. He's a he's a good hitter. You know that that's kind of fits best for somebody who needs a D. H.. Who can play some outfield? And and you know basically guy who puts a lot of balls in play hard and online like the the caveat would be like a perfect guy for and I kinda thought this might happen either like the perfect six hitter or five hitter for the Astros like He. Put Him in there behind. Like ALTOONA. Bregman your Don Alvarez. And he's he's going to have have days where he's just smoking doubles all of the field and driving everybody in and we saw that with the cubs you know once he got over there but yeah you know I mean it the way I look at it as a GM job to get maximum value out of all of your assets in in whatever way and the only thing that you know excuses anything it really is hayward competitive were attending and we weren't anywhere close to that They could easily afforded an extension on him and we would have still had a pretty the solid bat that you could probably D. H.. You know a lot of the time because obviously Miguel Cabrera's going to be hurt quite a bit. He's going to need a lot of days off so castanos kind of defensive liabilities and right even though he's terrible but You know certainly not. Even really an average defender. He could have been a part of the rebuild and given you you kind of a bad start start building everything else around and they you know they just didn't seem to have any interest so you know I wasn't surprised that he was traded. I wasn't surprised is that we didn't get very much back forum I was I was really pissed about it but I was almost kind of over that like a year ago and the rest is just sort of waiting like where he went. So there's another guy who I like at a personal level as far as liking players. Go I really liked neck so it was nice to go to Chicago. Have a great time and just rake over there. I know a lot of tiger fans who've talked about him for years and I've had to keep arguing with we're sort of You Know God smack to see him become like this huge fan favourite and all the ladies going crazy for Hitting home runs and doubles all over the place at basically doing everything he could carry the cubs on his back to the postseason. So yeah I mean I think nick is a better player than we saw here in large part because it just wasn't much else around him he had a really good two thousand eighteen and he was out basically the whole year and we had nobody around armed him and he's still hit you know. I think he's still posted like a one. Twenty eight of Ersie plus something like that. So yeah. He's a solid player but without him there. You know yeah who who plays filled extra for the Tigers. I mean we really. We Have Cobi Jones and Victor Ray who are all sort of defense I center fielders and and in Rightfielder Maybe it's Travis Merit. Maybe Dance Cameron. I you know I think those are those are really kind of the two options. So they'll probably one of them. The Tigers Agresson heavily. He's Kinda hinted that they might try to find some kind of power bat or two to play first base and help out there and in right field so potentially something nothing like that will happen. I I certainly don't feel great about disturbing the job right over tries to MIRA who didn't really show us a whole lot after Shane Green trade with the braves. He was sort of the second a piece of met deal. Like another guy who has some potential can lake. Nicole from Lake has like decent around tools but just just doesn't really put it it altogether or has yet. So he's going to be getting a lot of time in right field and I'm really hoping that Das- Kinda come on in at least Put up a pretty good show and start taking taking some of that time for him. If Travis doesn't kind of get it going next year hey guys. If you haven't heard about anchor it's easiest way to make a podcast. LemMe explain it's is free. There's creation tools that allow you to according to Your podcast right from your phone or computer anchor will distribute your podcast for you so it can be heard on spotify apple podcasts and many other platforms. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listeners. And it's everything you need to make a podcast when David started this podcast. We definitely didn't think that it would be this. Easy and anchor has made it just us that we picked Gabe along the way. We're having fun doing this but we're also making a little bit of cash. You can to download the free anchor apper good anchor. FM TO GET STARTED THE ANCHOR DOT FM. Now let's talk about the guy that was recalled seven times and twenty nineteen victory. What were your thoughts on his season and do you think he's you know going to be productive next season? Well I think the you know the best thing to happen for him is that he proved himself to be a good defender at all positions in the outfield. Like you could put them out there and feel pretty good about it because even that wasn't wasn't real certain last last season at people who don't know the Tigers picked him up in the rule five draft had the first pick in the rule. Five drafted took him from the Arizona. diamondbacks after the twentieth seventeenth season basically stashed him all year. Because it didn't matter and we could in twenty eighteen and he came straight from AA and had to come GonNa try to hang hang in the major league environment and it was bleak like most of us were sort of just like what. What were they looking at? You know what are they seeing this kid other than the fact that he's you know six five and can run you know there's there are some physical gifts there but But this year he sort of shorten his swing out he he basically took on that. You know that Lloyd mcclendon in let's play some pepper approach and it just and it just kinda worked out for him you know. He dabbed his way to a to an okay second half but even that was like you know it was like two one hundred twenty plate appearances where he was spraying the ball around and it was it was dropping forum but but still hasn't really much of a way to tap into his power hit for a little bit more power our at triple A.. And I think really the only the only thing that's kind of left with him or the or the thing that you can kind of hang onto his. A glimmer of hope is that you know his as development. Kerr has been kinda screwed up by the fact that he had. He sat on the bench after jumping straight from from AA to the majors. Went back to triple a this season. which is what he needed needed all year long but was also kinda bouncing up and down so it's not impossible that he might find a little bit more of a gear but at best I would say he's he's sort of an average outfielder? Whose whose main value is GONNA lie his defensive abilities so that's kind of who the guy is so I don't know if you know this or not but one probably the biggest guy that the painting corners podcasts are fans of Austin Meadows? His younger brother Parker Parker meadows this is in the tiger system thoughts on him. Yeah I mean Parker Meadows Yeah the Tigers took him in the second round in the draft in two thousand eighteen out the high school you know. He's he's another guy who has like a lot of tools But feels like the kind of guy who also might take a little bit of time to sort of put it all together other physically because he is six five and he looks like he's maybe two hundred pounds. He's really kind of a beanpole he can run. He's got some weapons swing. We've seen some really nice raw power from Amman occasion but he has a really long swing. You know like when scouts talk about bad speed like the way. I tried to explain this to people. It's not like how fast you're traveling you know it's it's it's basically zero to sixty it's acceleration and he's got work to do there and you know some of that may is be shortening the swing and and physically getting stronger So I'm looking forward to seeing you. Know him kind of grow into his frame a little little bit more a little bit more coordination and strength can kind of Can kind of smooth out some of the rough edges in his swing. 'cause he can you know it. Definitely capable of playing center field He he should have pretty good rob. How're he's got decent accelerate along limb guys who are fast still aren't very good base stealers and victory kind of fits that mold? I think Parker medals will be a little bit better on on that front but But yeah he's he's got some swing flaws in. It's hard to be caffeine it. You know if if we were if you put Parker Meadows in the astros system is probably like just just by the fact that I know he's going to get good instruction structure like almost bump them up like you know two of almost fifty future value type data as opposed to like the forty that he probably is with Astros Astros. He's probably a forty five because I just don't have a whole lot of cabinets that this team can produce hitters and we haven't really seen anything to to really counteract it Even the Castanos who sort of one hitter that tigers have managed to develop over the last six or seven years was was pretty close to a finished product. Even Even within like his first year in pro ball he was. He was just a really precocious hitter and didn't really change too much than any of US could really really see by the Tigers instruction so yet. I'll have a caffeine. It's unfortunately on that front but you know it. It doesn't hurt that. Parker medals goes and trains with awesome metals. WHO had frigging kick ass last year with raise this year? There's a little bit in the pedigree bucket. Where at least you know that he's going to be around people who are doing the right things no you? I don't know how to improve. Absolve know what to work on. So I'm going to be pretty interested to see Parker metals next season. He's a guy who I think. A lot of people were disappointed in this year but but again like guys with that kind of frame I almost always will give like a whole extra year of leeway to just because you know he's he's kind of tall gangly kid kid who needed to get his coordination and string together and if that happens never know maybe this wingo cover art as well as Jim starting pitching. Its make this. It's been this is want to jump into the bad stuff Does Matt Boyd Fit. This rebuild is the question that we're GONNA lead off with pro pro. Probably not no like if I'm on the show. Yeah like if I if I run on the show like Matt Boyd and Daniel Norris are probably getting extensions right right the season And I'M GONNA try to hang onto under those guys a little bit longer because I think the Tigers are probably going to sort of run out of time in terms of being able to convert them you you know useful assets sets that will actually play in twenty two twenty three win win kind of hoping that we're back in the mix again. I really liked Batboy I didn't I like we traded for Matt Boyd. Obviously he was he was far and away. The third piece behind Daniel Norris especially and Michael Fomer And boy does really transform himself. And ma'am boy. This is the kind of guy who's a really smart pitcher works really hard. He's a leader. He's a smart Guy I am. He's he's the guy who I would say like the James Shields of the tiger staff If you know how that reputation works. That boy is trained at Dr Line Baseball as ball out in Seattle Seattle Washington on the past couple of seasons and like each. He's he's made like a major change like in two thousand sixteen gene. He used to really be like almost high. three-quarters guy and in two thousand sixteen dropped his arm slot like to a low three quarters like a really pretty radical change. They happened over the course most of that season and he improved and then he came out last year and the slider looked a lot better and he was swinging that thing a little bit differently. I'm getting a lot more or or Zano break and getting a lot more wis on it and then this off season you get a whole lot of What more physical work built his fastball? Up Blow more picked up another mile or two tweaked his delivery just a little bit to get more backspin and a little bit more just straight riding action on the fastball and that worked for the the first three months of the season now we found that he really kinda turned into sort of a poor. Man's Patrick Corbin where there's a lot of strikeouts not many walks but wendy start teeing off on their hit him hard and he was given up a lot of home runs. So he's he's a guy who really had a home run problem and started. He's you know we've seen stretches. Were Matt Boyd. Has really good change up and that to me seems to be the key. Like if he's got one more step that he can take where he can refine that changing and commanded consistently all make season. I think you're looking at like a you know a solid number two starter like or a good number three something like that so I still think there's that last slow bit on for him to get out of himself and if he can do that in the first half maybe the Tigers will be able to get a little bit more of what they wanted when they tried to trade him at the trade deadline the season. He's been fun to watch. Though an and it really a lot of ways he sort of saved the team by at least like every fifth day like okay. This looks like a doc halfway professional major league baseball team that could win some games because you know two or three starts per turn. We really didn't even look like that this season. So yeah I mean that boy pretty good diet and I think there's there's a lot of intangibles there on top of what you'd actually see numbers that would make him a pretty valuable guy for a lot of teams seems to have. I actually think that the phillies would have done well to trade for him. I know they didn't want to trade like Alec Bone and the way it looks now trading Spencer Answer Howard for him by the seemed excessive but you know he's adorable guy. NAP Boyd hasn't hasn't had any injuries. He goes out there. He gives you one hundred seven hundred eighty hittings every year He struck struck out. I think like eleven point five per nine innings. If I'm not mistaken somewhere right around there this year differently up in the in the top tap not ten or so of a strikeout guys and doesn't walk to many people on the he's just one of those guys who is a fly ball pitcher who has a bit of Homerun problem problem and you're GonNa have to be able to to solve that to really unlock him and make him something better than an average starter Because obviously if you're in America Park and you're giving having oppo runs you're going to give up home runs and Philly thirty. So that's his mission. This off season is up to figure out a way to keep keep hitters a little bit more off-balance Work on that third pitch and I wouldn't put it past him because he he's definitely a guy who really understands the modern process of pitch development. And you know it's fairly likely to figure something out for next season that'll be interesting again. I'm actually terrified. Mentioned this guy's name because last year we did it. He got Tommy John like almost immediately. What's GonNa have Michael Fulmer? Michael Fulmer is probably not going to be back until till mid season the Tigers are are you know obviously not in a position to to rush at all like. There's no reason. Look yes. They're gonNa you know he's I don't expect to see him until after the All star break and I I really don't know what to expect in everybody's GonNa think about the Tommy John Surgery. I don't worry so much about that. Michael Fulmer is a beast like he has a hard working like intense cat Where his craft is concerned? I I assume that the rehab ago you know according to plan and then he will he will get his arm strength back and the elbow will be okay but the problem is that he's got knee problems too. You Know He. He's lost quite a bit of cartilage in his right knee and I don't think they did the microfracture procedure this last off season. But I don't know there was a whole weird thing this spring where he showed up up and all of a sudden. He's wearing a knee brace and they started letting them pitch. You know like normal pretty quickly and I don't know that they had anything to do with his elbow on the you know. He's had had bone chips removed from the elbow before has had some own owner nerve issues in there before that they had to do a little bit with so the elbow think probably holy was just coming out but it was a bad look for the Tigers that you know he comes back from a minor knee procedure you put them in an e brace he starts kind of going at his normal workload to get ready for the season and blows out of salvo. That's the thing that enrages me like what you had. No reason to dislike slow. Play Him and let him get used to the braces. He's you know which is kind of like light work as long as you wanted. And the if I didn't having to do with it but I just don't know what we're going to get when he comes back because a big part of you know Michael Former is that he just had one of the best fastballs in the game and had good command of it really really aggressive fast pitcher with great extension powered his way off the mound at you really hard and that right knee is is the thing that worries me more than the the Tommy John. Michael former always had some issues in terms of he just really never had like a particularly good breaking ball in two thousand sixteen when he run rookie of the year. It was really fast all change up more than anything had like an eighty nine ninety mile per hour you know cuttlefish Sorta slider. That was okay but it was mainly fast ball making it play up so yeah I don't know I. I still kind of feel like maybe what's going to happen is that Michael Former is going to end up in relief. You know going to be sort of a right handed like Sean doolittle type but what we're going to have to wait in and probably probably we won't really know until two thousand twenty one sort of what he's gotten a tank with Nian issue. That's a terminal. Had a really good year the the season and if there's one bright lake think rookie debut that the Tigers had it was terrible. He's a really interesting guy. He's one of the few that really throws like a high spin forcing her her and a really low spin you know like true sinker and he could mix those two. I'm you from ninety three to ninety eight miles per hour and his band is still will. Is still sketchy but you can see like a lot of good hitters. Had a really hard time dealing with his fastball. And he's also he backs it up with a pretty good slider arm curveball combination. He's a guy who's who's older than I think. People thought when he when he came up I keep reminding people that day is only twenty six after everything he's been through. It spreads debuted this year at twenty seven just about. He's the guy who the tires drafted in two thousand four and he had kind of consistent shoulder issues is but never anything major and it. It just feels like maybe twenty eighteen. He he cut a found something in his conditioning where it all sort of clicked and he stayed healthy the whole season. And you started to see you kind of the package coming together. While he's not he's not a guy who's probably ever going to have like you know plus command or turn into a really dominant starter. He's the guy who's who's got just nasty raw stuff like he he could be a really tough reliever He's a guy who who they the Tigers do have kind of going for them right now. Who Really Kinda came out of the blue because even though he had a good season in the on the farm last year he was twenty six by then He? He was a guy that I think a lot of people had already started to Kinda right off off was falling down into the teens in a lot of the the system rankings and so to have him come up and you know showcase a little. Oh better command than than he he had in in the minors and that power stuff. He's the guy who you know probably is one of the best assets or what are the best last thing to happen to the Tigers organization this season so they got him And he's still going to be around for six years so that that part of it is good. You know the the real tricky part and I I just wrote like a player review about dangerous. Last night he's going to be a free agent in twenty twenty two so we've only got him for two more seasons former employed. We only have three more so it is really hard muscle. Tigers decide to offer some extensions and the Tigers aren't a team. That really ever seems to do that with anybody. Other than the you know. The Justin Burley Anders of the world. which I think is foolish? Unfortunately but is this kind of the way it goes. But they're the trick the next year or so is to figure out how to determine those guys into the best assets that they can get back obviously former is gonNA take some time now but you've got foam for three more seasons so maybe that can work out Boyd I would expect to be treated very fairly soon. Norris has just had like this this weird groin injury But he suffered in two thousand seventeen pitched with it for most of the season and struggled Head surgery came back. The next year was still kind of dealing with a lot of soreness and scar tissue and his blasphemy. which used to be on ninety? Three ninety four was down to about ninety and he averaged ninety pretty much all of two thousand eighteen they kind of had to pitch them out of the bullpen. He ended up having a secondary procedure. I mean the dude is just been unbelievably snake bit he he you know he had thyroid cancer. Like right. After the Tigers Traded Forum What else happened? He fell doing box jumps and like fractured one of the the little processes that come off the back of your Vertebra in twenty sixteen. I believe that was so. It's just been kind of like this. This litany injuries with him But he still has a really damn good slider good change up pretty good bulldog mentality in there. And he's a guy who I'm looking forward to next next season. Because because the Tigers shut him down and just had him pitch like two or three innings at a tie in his starts in September just sort of keep them in the mix without overworking him and and we started seeing the the velocity finally starting to come back and take out and to lose that much velocity without an arm injury Dale's never had any kind of trouble is is just a really kind of weird thing and we saw that with Justin Burland or when he had his groin inquirer issues on prior to the twenty fourteen season. So I've been I've been holding malign here ed part of it I mean I kind of love Daniel Norris like dude who in the offseason is out with all these nature photographers and surfers. Who Film things for or National Geographic? All these people follow on instagram like Daniel. Norris knows these people that's three hangs out with in the off season driving his VW. Bus across the country. I I think I kind of want his life his lifestyle. He's kind of my spirit. Animals I root for them even more than I normally would but it was great to see him kind of come back and just you know just just just be healthy. Stay off the I l. and put up league average numbers and he's another guy who I could see coming out next season. You know having a little bit more on the fastball. After an off season where he finally doesn't have to Rehab anything and can just work on his strength and flexibility. I can see him get a little blasted he back and he's really had to struggle to learn how how to pitch with ninety MPH fastball over the past two seasons and kind of had figured out you know how to make it work with command mixing fixing stuff up and all that so he could get that little bit of lasted you back out still holding out some hope that The the best is yet to come for Daniel as well and like I said he's only twenty six. There could be a long way to go. He was brought up really early by the Blue Jays traded to us and we basically worked right from the beginning so yeah yeah as far as the rotation goes at least there are few guys who are who are worthy of look next season. I wasn't expecting Dana. Norris's my spirit animal to be a large number man. You gotta you gotTa start following Daniel North of instagram. It'll be your spirit animal. Don't worry more like the bland pitchers is that are like McKinsey Gore over here taking McKinsey Gore. Let's talk about the second best pitching prospect of baseball. Yeah I'm okay with that I ll Mackenzie Gore is a beast man. I'm on board with the McKenzie. GORTEX man he's more like it's like everybody's a prospect crush right Calistoga a a podcast of for EVT's stuff. It was literally dislike twenty minutes of meeting callous. Just gushing over Gore knife. Hi Jim Ellison. Now that's a as he was he was awesome man. But you know let's talk about casing. Is We talked about Casey last year to where her feels you. I think you told me last year that you thought that Manning was gonNA wind up passing him up. Do you think that happened this year in is that at fault of is is or is that more manning's just push forward. I don't think he passed him necessarily but I do think if it became pretty clear player to a lot of people that it that it's much more like a one eight one be type situation. They've he's last year to actually. Yeah I think that all kind of came to fruition like I I mean Casey buys looked really good I A lot of my concerns with Casey. Mice have always been more that he so close to two major league. Ready as as he is that. I'm just not sure that the Tigers the team that can really like leverage him the best like he's almost a guy you would think the Tigers would would pitch for two seasons and then probably probably end up trading away for a piece to really start the rebuild going I mean I've had some issues with case is just because I don't. I don't trust the durability ability and that's that's perfectly normal almost all pitching prospects but there are some guys who I do and and I I. I have a lot more faith that manning is going to is going to be the if one of them is going to be the guy who throws two hundred innings every year and just eats everybody up consistently and becomes like a legit ace type. It's it's going to be Matt Manning I you know. Casey is his type of guy who I I could see like one hundred fifty one hundred sixty in guy who has a I understand once or twice almost every year for a little. Bit of shoulder soreness But maybe doesn't have anything serious for a while But yeah I mean of the two. Yeah I'm still I'm still pretty. Definitively I met Manning side I liked Casey Mayes. I didn't want to necessarily take him like I was okay with with it but with tigers having as much pitching as they do I was more partial to like a joey bar or Nick Madrigal. Type play at that point I'm trying to save a little bit of money. And maybe for someone harder in the second round they took him. You're the stuff look good. He debuted at Aa with a no hitter. which was it was pretty good? Yeah he's he's a weird guide watch at at the AA level because he's not necessarily generating that many whiffs and he. He seemed seemed kind of struggle with the splitter a little bit this year which is really when he has the splitter going You you can kind of see like the the best of Casey is and why he was the number one overall pick because at that point like for AA hitters. It's it's just hilarious. You know what I mean. There's there's some really bad swings like swings the pitching Ninja. Wouldn't even you know. Feel you you know. Like he could put out on a public website if other that grotesque so He's you know he was good this year. It's once again. You know he had the same. The problem is junior year where he got past one hundred innings and all of a sudden and the command wasn't quite so good and then it was a little bit of shoulder trouble and and he took a couple of weeks off and he came back and he was still just kinda sloppy so yeah you know he could probably pitch in the major leagues right now. He just doesn't give me the impression of a guy who's is gonNA with his with his delivery with his his injury history. He doesn't give me the impression of a guy who's going to be like a big time innings eater who develops develops a whole lot further. I K- I kind of look at him as like a you know maybe in like a year like almost a number two starter type. Who is probably ready to go and probably should replaying for a good team? Because he says he's hard to project as a guy who's GonNa be your pitch and when he's like thirty four thirty five and still throwing ninety three ninety five even eating a ton of innings. I just don't see that you know that it really cards and it's not really on the cards for most guys So I can understand. That doesn't sound like that much of a criticism. It's just that for a team. That is so far from winning. He was almost like a win. Now type pick. He's like the guy the Tigers would have dreamed of getting in Twenty Eleven twenty twelve and slammed right into the bullpen and then moving them into the rotation like a year later But he he kind of fits that assorted mold better. So we'll see how it goes. One thing that happened last off season is that there were a couple of interviews with him where he talked about Training at his agents camp and he's another guy who really seems like really fluent in analytics and pitch design and it was really really down to like you know work on his slider last offseason season and really kind of redesigned. It changed some of his training all that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of intangible qualities Casey is that I think are really good as well and we'll just kind of see how it all plays out but but yeah in the long run I'm still manning's a little bit more of the the volatile side of the of the equation as far as like how he's going to eventually finish up as the approaches the majors but I feel like yeah of the two I bet more on. Manning long-term where to Scuba football fit into this mix we just talked about basically Manningham is but where do you find that screwball winds up kind of fitting in this equation probably really not this year in maybe at the end of next year. But you know how do you. How does he profile out yet? He's I mean look he. He was incredible the revelation. Yeah I mean I mean he was putting up like he was striking like forty five percent of of the hitters or more he that he faced a at Erie it was. It was pretty pretty overpowering stuff. I mean he's got an incredibly good fastball. I mean there's a lot of deception option in his delivery he's Kinda thrown from a high arm slot. He's kind of got like that kind of like a Josh. Hader sort of fastball. Basically the breaking ball. I think lags a little bit behind and we'll just have this. I need to see him a little bit more. Because he wasn't a double wave that long and a lot of what I saw. was that the breaking ball and the change up played so well because the fastball was just wait for those guys But you know I think the issue with him as you know he is a giant guy already on. I think he had Tommy John Surgery Sophomore year. which is why the Tigers were able to get them where they were they did? I didn't know I think it was the ninth round last year and I think we all kind of like we all like that pick and I kinda thought like yeah this could be a really dominant reliever maybe even like got to to winnings you know type guy like the guy who bridges you to your closer Something like that but usually durable this year and you know the the stuff tough was pretty undeniably. Good so yeah. We'll just have to kind of see really all I really. All I'm Kinda represented about is is how durable he's going to be It's a fairly high effort delivery. You know we'll we'll just kinda have to play it by ear but right now. Yeah he's like I mean. He jumped so much this year that he's really kind right behind Ms Manning and looked really pretty close to major league ready. His command is better than Manning's it's better than mize's but He was just pounding people with that fast ball dropping sliders and curve balls on the edges for the final three months of the season. He's one of those guys because I read a lot about the minor leagues. But but I don't get to that many games other than it Toledo so when guys are in the Florida State League doesn't much TV coverage you can't watch that much of it on Minor League TV and he was in the void there for a while. So I kinda just I just WanNa see him more but I mean he really did vault his way all the way up to where you know. It's really only mayes manning and Riley Green. I think at this point that I would that I would put them. I'm it was damn impressive. Him really much needed for the Tigers. They have someone breakout like that and look that good. It's just a question of whether he's kind of more of a bullpen weapon type guy or whether he's going to be able to go out there and you know drew one hundred seventy five innings and be dead good. It was damn good though when I saw him for sure. You're going to be thrilled to get a top one hundred. I already in the ninth. Round of lasser draft. Yeah thanks Scott. Boris Boris apparently one of the weird things about that was that we kinda on the site. We're always having this debate about the front office and there's a lot of people who just don't want a process that maybe the front office is terrible because you know then when you and you know they kind of kept throwing him back they found Tarik Scuba. Look how good this is going this year. Sure and then in that article came out where it was all you know. Scott Boras called the Tigers in mid draft like when they were in the sixth or seventh round and was like. Hey what about my my boy. Tarek Eric School here like nobody's taking them yet. This guy's amazing you guys should look into it and I guess they checked him out. We're like yeah all right. They took them and so yeah we were throwing that all back in their faces like. Oh Oh yeah yeah. Great Front Office as long as Scott. Boris is doing your scouting for you but he was right. I'll give him that job. Scott Boras thank you. We needed that. He's got worse. Nobody's there was a level for now. Yeah man to go I guess the finish kind of the cycle here Matt Manning just having you know just a fantastic year like it was it just seems to come so easy to him like but you know the the fastball and even the development of his command His he cleaned up his delivery. Libary in two thousand eighteen quite a bit and he was a really raw prospect. I mean I don't know if you guys are paying much attention to him when he got drafted but he'd only pitched hitch like two years in high school he was a basketball player had a scholarship to to Loyola As a guard or something as massive. Yep He is he's he's six six and that's the thing like everyone wants these really tall pitchers but then there's also the truth about like all these tall slender pitchers like they never find command. which is kinda nonsense like everybody wants? Six five six pitchers like you know Justin Burland Garrett Cole like I can go on and on with the examples examples of of how that's sort of the prototype of the modern power pitcher but yeah Matt Manning. He looked raw they. They did a lot with delivery the first year and there were just a lot out of like he. He didn't. He looked like a pitcher by the end of two thousand seventeen like its first full season but there was still some elements. We didn't really look like a baseball player Just in terms of kids ability to like hold Brunner's his fielding sort of his general awareness his ability to kind of move between the stretch and the wind up All that stuff really came together other in just just a huge way twenty eighteen and he didn't really take a big step forward this year. I'm he just sorta like entrench those games that he'd made The first half of the season had the had the change up and the curb bubbles going really well and he and he just looked unbelievable he kind of faded a little bit. I thought in the second can half the secondary pitches a little bit There was he pitched an inning in the MLB futures game that was sort of a microcosm of how it goes for. And we're like he didn't have the the secondary pitches and couldn't quite land them and against the you know some of the better hitters in the minor leagues. It wasn't like anybody was really off on them necessarily but there was just he just could not blow people away with fastball. At that you know when when it was that level and when he didn't have the secondary stuff you know it was a bit of a struggle for him. So you know there's still work to do but you know he's twenty one. He's he's a young twenty one as far as a pitcher goes and yeah I discontinued to be really excited for him because is the the athleticism is just so strong guy that size like his his agility off the mound is is really fantastic. You see him like pick things up when when they're working working on something generally pretty quickly. I kind of feel like he's got to add is basically you know fastball changeup which is sort of like a split change inch and a really pretty good hammer curb all right now but I still kind of feel like there's gotta be a cutter or a or a slider in the offing into really Kinda round that whole thing out or his command just just not as up a whole other level and it and it won't matter he definitely he could pitch in the major leagues right now to as reliever could probably be all right. The command was has just been really steadily increasing As far as like locating the fastball asphalt around the zone being able to change speeds and move up and down in the zone with it He's he's really fun to watch pitch and he's he's that's my guy right there. I'm the official Bandwagon Conductor of the Landing Bandwagon. And I would have them above Casey Mayes. Yeah I'm on my prospect list. We argue about this fairly regularly at bless you boys but yeah I'm not. I'm not giving it on that. He's our number one as far as I'm concerned. How do you feel about Joey wins? I've read a lot of stuff High praise for him. Yeah you know I like I actually thought that was a really good. Get that treatment down a lot of a lot of national prospect writers. Seem to be like Eh Joey. Wentz like You no he was a guy like a year ago but has sort of faded. But I don't know I I like to take like Joey whence the Tigers have a couple of guys and Tarek school fits in this to Do these kind of high arm slot lefties who throw that really like straight four seamer with a lot of like it's not necessarily like spin rate necessarily zero like I think Tareq scruples spinner. It was pretty good. I'm not really sure what joy went was. But it's all it's all backspin. It's all writing action. And he's got some good good deception From when we saw the command was really good. The change was really good His breaking ball is still pretty pretty mediocre. Like you'd probably put a forty five on it most of the time But even that was really effective because he he again was like someone who looks like he had a lot of pitch ability was changing speeds. Move into both sides of the plate hitting his spots. A Lot Yeah I was pretty pretty pleased with them and another. He's another one. Who is you know? He's six five to fifty and I think he's only twenty one years old old so get a few injuries last season. And I think maybe that's kind of stunted the lasting development is more like ninety two ninety. Three we still think there's a chance he's going to. He's going to pick up to be ninety five ninety six type guy. I don't know if the breaking ball will ever really come come along to be a plus pitch but he looks like the guy who should be able to be like a four or five starter for me. So you know for Shane Green. That was that was pretty good. Chang's good relief but not a dominant one is everybody just just go to Erie and just dominate. Because I feel like that's what happened. Yeah I mean they really did this year I you know I wish I could remember who wrote it but there was an article about like is the pitching. I'm good at in the eastern league this year or two hitter suck I don't they just. Yeah Yeah but I think it was. I think it it was the pinch. rotation was pretty stupid When they were going good? Yeah watching like Ms Manning veto school with a little bit of like Anthony Castro or you know whoever else mixed in there yet it was. It was pretty nasty You know that you're seeing wolves really only had Isaac parades as far as like kidder's go and they were pretty close to making the postseason and it was all just because at that. Starting pitching was just bananas. Good so but that's that's kind of where we got it going for us and it's just all about like you know these guys are GonNa. I show up proudly in the next year. You know we should see a lot of these guys next season. And hopefully setting settling in in twenty twenty one. And it's like yeah right about. Then we have some bats going really like is appraisal be thereby then but riley green unless he has a huge breakout is probably still going to be at the AA double a level If that so the timing of all this is another thing that just isn't it. It's hard to do but it's not coming together very well and that's all because the tiger really really failed with a lot of the trades Everybody gets a draft every year. It's nice to pick high but you know even in football having the number one pick doesn't guarantee not you anything and in baseball. It's like a completely other thing so yeah so I mean just you know. We haven't gotten any extra picks the Arizona diamondbacks Bax. who was? Yeah Yeah we would love to see Al Avila. Do some do some things to get to get a whole bunch of picks and get a bunch of these guys all coming coming kind of on a similar timeframe but they haven't really shown what's propensity for creativity or or trading in general So you know the went straight was okay the trade that they got Isaac Parade as you know in Jamar. Candelaria was good but other than that. I mean it's it's been pretty garbage. So yeah you know the timing on all this is the trick and that's where you get into okay we're going to trade buoyed and then maybe we're going to trade fomer or for the for the bats that we need but then you're entirely depending on your farm to produce all these guys and I don't care if you have you know eight top one hundred. Pitching prospects like the odds are still very good. That you're only going to get for those guys to be solid solid major leaguers and even then it might take them a couple of years to to settle in. So yes. That's why this is so hard right now. Is that if you know if instead of Mayes manning scuba all those guys were hitters like we'd all feel different like Oh maybe we can find cheap pitcher and fix them up or bring all these guys to to fly ball pitchers to America. Who are you know getting shelled and other places and find a couple of them who can keep the ball in the park enough? You put a fast speedy defense. Thank Centerfield like you start like in your head you can start team building away to make some of this work but But yeah bringing up all the pitchers at once when you don't really have the bats yet you know I. It's it's still a very long way away unless there's some some big things happening over the next year. You just waste service at that point. Yeah I mean and and to some degree. That's okay because pitchers you know I. It's just the way it goes like when you bring a pitch up to the major leagues you know. We've seen it with Julio Erase or women Senate with Walker bueller panic like there's usually some injuries. There's usually some some figuring out some rough stretches. It's less less likely. I think that you're gonNA get a wine. Soto tight pitching prospect does even the best guys usually struggle a little bit for a while Walker Bueller being the exception it just looks like a complete stutter. Already so is there. I mean you pretty much. Can you know I mean it's like Joe Jimenez Buck Look Farmer. Those guys are okay. If one of them could take a step forward that that's a good relief chipped to trade next season but other than that. Yeah you know we picked picked up a guy. David Mackay On waivers from Seattle. He's got like a three thousand RPM curve ball throws ninety four ninety five and. Yeah I mean it's it's good good stuff but the thing that I'm noticing is that it that stuff kind of used to you know pop. My is out of my head but the man everybody throws ninety five while support for reliever so you know he's another guy who like if he could put it together and find the command. The stuff is really really pretty eye popping the good but But yeah there's there's also just a lot of you know that guy's never gonNa make it was under smooth news throw one oh three one three and then paint it back or slider finals Anybody those ninety good luck now. Yeah Yup but their seat all but then there's still some out there but man you gotTa have some yet has some serious game pain. Yeah and you gotTa have some deception you gotta be able to change the etc so it I mean it is nice that some guys can still make that work and that's why we started out I if it was before we got on air talking about that. And that's why you know that cranky and Anibal Sanchez and guys like that Kyle Hendricks get so much no acclaim. Because it's it's is this really hard to pitch that way and it takes a guy with you know pretty stupid precision to make that sort of thing works. Oh Yeah you better you better be able to bring it you know ninety five or or close or it's tough I mean. We've pretty much covered everything. I kind of want to go over the draft a little bit before we close things. Down sure How did you feel overall about this draft and you know we? We talked about it before. Obviously nine guys that were in College College. Only one of nine guys in the first round that we're we're in college. Only one high schooler but that one high school or is relegated you know. How did you feel about taking Riley Green at number five? And what was the kind of the reaction to this. I think. In general people really liked Riley Greener. And we're pretty pretty stoked about him and I don't know if you guys read back in the spring it was sort of like the one knock on rally green is that was that you know. Maybe the defense wasn't that good. He didn't really have the speed. You know to to play Centerfield. He was probably a guy is gonNA have to move to the corner all that kind of thing but everybody you know everybody likes the bet. Everybody expects them to hit And right from the start like you know. He went to the Gulf Coast League. Can I think homered in his first two games and they were like tape measure just missiles And he basically did the same thing at Connecticut in the New York Penn League you a you know like short season a ball so the you know the bat you know impressed but the other thing to happen is that he went to West Michigan and just started making highlight reel plays in Centerfield Centerfield all over the place and I don't know it was pretty clear to a lot of us that some of the early kind of write ups I'm on Riley Green no pre-draft like back last January February just hadn't taken into account that he'd really kind of already heard all those rumors and really put in a lot of work and he was faster than Than people anticipated in in a lot better defender so overall that was pretty great. You know I kind of wanted. Jj Blah Day Mainly because of those concerns about Riley Green like maybe maybe he's just kind of going to be a slow corner outfielder when he fills out but Put those concerns on the back burner and so overall Yelm. I'm really happy little love for rally Russia but that wasn't gonNa Happen Riley Green We're we're pretty stoked about I think As far as picks go that was the good one The the overall yes. I mean there were some picks you know that I liked but overall it was a little disconcerting that it was such a a seemingly safe draft have to to not really take any prep players in the top ten rounds and and kind of take a swing on any of those guys you know there are some guys I liked like we talked about Bryant Packard like maybe a shot at being a power hitting first baseman Cooper Johnson you know a decent catching prospect like looks like he has work to do behind the plate Even got drafted but has some two ball skills like a little bit and power like okay. That's all right. You know that back back-back pick was okay I liked lips. Okay I liked Catanha. Okay but overall yeah the philosophy Yeah that was kind of problematic automatic gun not just for me but I know a lot of people were sort of like you know why it would be in safe right now like. Why aren't we swing for the fences with it as many takes as possible? Because you you know we're a long way away. You're very unlikely to draft a star in the fifth or sixth round out of college. So yeah I mean that's kind of a problem. Hopefully they they they found if you guys who were values but But I don't really have a whole lot of happened. Set anybody outside a rally green is really ever going to be an impact player The two thousand eighteen draft was was pretty good but this one felt like sort of the beginning the middle ground between twenty eighteen and twenty seventeen which was just like a mess of a draft. Graf took fatal. I they overpaid a guy. In the second round out of Juku the first baseman Ray Rivera who has just looked awful has never done anything so their whole draft was kind of a mass. So this I mean this kind of felt like going back to safe mode a little bit and yeah I mean. There's there isn't really any reason for them to be in safe mode. So you know that the draft expert on the site. I pay a lot of attention. There's a couple of guys who no I would say more than I do. So maybe some of these guys will have a little bit more of a shot. Then I'm giving him Zach. Who took in the the seventh round like yeah really really? Nice looking fastball. Ashfall late like a like a really big time writing fastball and a decent breaking ball he was. LSU's closer. I think he was there. Is there a weekend pitcher. Oh was it. Yeah he was starting there okay and then we can burn in Austin. That's the only reason a prophecy. But let's see him I saw him pitch A couple of games and he looked promising As a relief candidate leads to sell these guys there but yeah outside of green. I didn't really see anybody who had like distant twinkle of like. Hey maybe this guy could you know could put it all together and have the high ceiling that we're not anticipating didn't really see too to many guys who who seem to fit that mold. Maybe maybe Lipsius if everything just go cubs together out of nowhere but that's a lot of just wild hope and speculation on On my part because I I tend to favor like hardworking. You know smart players as long as they're not like unskilled I tend to like WanNa give those guys a little bit of time to see if you know they can. They can develop themselves a little bit and a lot of that is still just like lack of confidence in the Tigers Ability. Develop people all right so Close it out. Give us some bold predictions for the twenty twenty season for the Tigers. Oh God okay the same seat that are we in the same seat seat next year that we are this year to where the Tigers have another number one overall big. I think there is a pretty good chance at that happens. Elman yeah I'm afraid so like I. I would be surprised if we if we were picking lower than third in twenty twenty one and nets you know all kinds of things can happen but the Tigers do have some guys who could break out there. There are some things that can happen. Maybe they'll be more aggressive. This offseason than I think. I think they cut the roster to thirty three heading into the offseason. Then really there's only like one or two guys. They're probably going to protect. So maybe they're going to be more aggressive so then in free agency than that. I think they've sort of habit the past couple of years of like jumping the gun and signing a position of need like early like like they did that with George Mercer last year and as it turned out there were better players available like in mid February and Tigers have under eligible have consistently been behind the curve on a lot of these. These things You know we could've taken Freddie Galveston and signed him for less than they signed. George Mercer for you know and they signed Jordy Mercer. I think like right after the winter meetings So I would like to just be patient and wait and see what values can come out. I do think they need to find themselves. A catcher who can kind of mentor enter Rogers and Greiner and play half the time So I'm I'm looking for him to do that But it's hard to see too much of an impact coming anywhere that would really propel them out of out of the Gutter in L. Central. I mean Kansas City royals look honestly to me like just got off a wasteland as well on despite having a couple talented players so yeah yeah you do have to keep in mind just how bad you know. Some other teams aren't it can be easy to sort of fall on your own Rut and just be like our terrible like all these other teams have all these good prospects blah blah But yeah I'd be surprised if If we were sitting outside of the of the top three next year as far as predictions go. I will say that you will see Casey Mayes and Manning both pitch in the major leagues next season. You will see Isaac Praise in the major leagues next season I think you will see Ron Gardenhire fired. At the end of next season I think That'll be kind of the end Dangerous Post A. Plus Three war season and has laxity back to like ninety three ninety four thrown a nasty slider and suddenly looks like the guy that we got from the Blue Jays again. I'll throw the downing. I'll just throw the ball to the bold prediction about your and say that after the twenty twenty season the Detroit Tigers will be sold to a new owner. I feel it. I just don't see like they're so flat lined. There's so little urgency in this in this organization the past two years there's even as a rebuilding team. You know people keep trying to make these astros. Comparisons like the Astros and the cubs had plans like from the beginning like they were like the plan. And there's a whole lot. Yeah go read the book. I've told people about. Somebody's like the cubs man. They winding Anthony Brazil right away. They knew they were going to build around him. They went and traded for. They didn't care it took you know. Yeah so it's not like you know. Those teams started out with with you know deep farm systems but they were also in a time when you could trade for more and while the Tigers are have been pretty bad about trading players for prospects. It's it's also just gotten a lot harder you know. We keep going back to that. Justin Justin verlander deal and how they make out of that without really anything other than like a backup catcher But that also goes to the dodgers and the and the Yankees who do you know cost himself a world series because they didn't want to give up one good player Maybe that one good player was gleyber Torres or Walker Bueller. So you can. You can take your you know your you pick whether or not that would have been worth it or not but You know it takes two to tango and in that particular case. I don't know that anybody really valued Justin burland properly As far as jd Martinez Ivica tires just absolutely just booted that by by jumping the gun and trading too soon and then we watched him go to Arizona and hit like thirty. Thirty home runs in two months so I got nothing back so yeah I mean there's just a lot of reasons where I don't think this front office has done well really Elliot anything and I don't see any pressure from the the ownership to do any more than that. Maybe this off season will tell us. Tell us more but all whole I'm basically looking at the next year like this next cycle like this offseason the next draft next trade deadline and if they haven't found like a couple of of impact bats at the major the League level in the minor leagues like some combination I really could see us just being in in sort of a vortex suck for a long time to come. Where we're a team that pitches pretty well and play scrappy like twins? Bullshit baseball on the field and wins eighty one games every the year like that that might be the high It's really hard to see US getting beyond that. The way things are now so yeah. There's there's a big prediction i. It just feels like the villages are on their way out.