Morning Joe 12/22/20
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Machines kenneth private let you machine. Hi say no basis now for seizing machines by the federal government. For two years. They've been trying to get this information to the fbi one fbi. Asia went to what went like this to the witness. I think to the extent that there's an investigation. I think that it's being responsibly and professionally currently within the department the president suggesting that the massive hack may have been carried out by someone else not russia from the information i have. I agree with secretary. Pompeo's assessment it's certainly appears to be the russians. But i'm not going to discuss it beyond that parallel. There is a bridge too far. Even for william bar good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is tuesday december. Twenty second along with joe willie and me. We have white house reporter for the associated press. John mayer learning to get up way too early this week and washington anger for bbc. World news america. Katty kay is with us. We're going to get to the slow moving coup in just a moment but first overnight congress passed one of the largest stimulus packages in the country's history totals two point three trillion dollars and includes not only the nine hundred billion corona virus relief bill but a full government funding package as well the combined bills which include direct payments and unemployment benefits tops out at nearly fifty six hundred pages. It was only given to lawmakers to read yesterday afternoon. Due to some technical issues in the house it passed three fifty nine to fifty three fifty. Republicans voted against it in the senate. It passed ninety two to six. Two republicans missed the vote while six voted against it. Many of them citing the cost of the bill president harassing we have deficit hog. Goodness where you live shoot is that they run up the biggest deficits in us history even before covid the biggest debt in american history. We can now. They're deficit hawks white. How convenient that. Their deficit hawks again with the democrat coming into the president because the presidency because they sure as hell were tough. Said hawks who george w bush was brazil again season so their deficit hawks now and now they don't like mean tweets and they don't like it when anyone uses naughty I have some breaking news. Guys there's going to be a lot of for see over the next four years from the very people who brought us donald trump and aided and abetted the last four years. You have ron johnson. The other day saying guys. We can't give people twelve hundred dollars. This government does not write blank checks. We're not a piggy bank all of a sudden. They've found their fiscal discipline. It's extraordinary jay. Sherman's here with us. He's the senior writer at politico. Co-authors playbook also an msnbc political contributor. J good morning. So how did this come together in the final hours and why did those six republicans who voted no vote now. Well you put it well They are regaining their religion. Let's say on a debts deficits and fiscal discipline. Which i imagine will be Will sweep through the republican party over the next couple years but listen i will say this does show. I mean to the extent if we could take anything good from this. This these last eight months does show that got. The congressional leadership is still working in some way shape or form because at the end of the day. If you think about it. It's tuesday last. Tuesday was mitch. Mcconnell and nancy closys first meeting so they were able to over the course of a week. put together the second largest stimulus package in american history. Only second to the one that they've put together just before that so it's a massive package that will deliver much needed but delayed. Let's be clear delayed relief. The joe biden has termed only a down payment For what's going to happen next. Congress which will be a just really quickly though the most busiest legislative session that i think any of us can imagine with the slimmest margins in the house in the senate jake. it's very interesting. We got information last week that this was moving forward and have been following some of the key players for quite some time who've been telling we're going to get this done all while mitch. Mcconnell was sending signals that it wasn't going to get done and you look at joe mansion. Mitt romney susan collins even lindsey graham and their gene chain others Wall mcconnell was saying no no no. These moderates in the center on in the republican party and republican and democratic party. We're both saying yeah. We're going to get this done. We're going to have the votes in the end it ends up that You know the majority and minority leaders don't have a complete stranglehold on their parties. If they decide they want to move together and forge consensus. They're going to do it in the last couple of weeks. Prove that didn't it it. Did it proved that there is a center of the senate that still works like you. Just indicated and what the center was able to do better than anything. was create a menu from which the leadership was able to eventually choose. And i think that is an important thing here. They showed that there was support for a variety of proposals. That mitch mcconnell. Nancy pelosi got into a room in narrow down. So i actually think i mean despite it being very late not including everything that That anybody wants. This is a good sign. That shows that there is some functionality. Left in the institution in the post trump era. And i think in the new york times wrote this on its front page today. It does show for the first time that there is a road map for joe biden which is to create some heat in some action in the center among the people. You just mentioned joe mansion. Jeanne shaheen Some of the moderates and and functional members of both party bharti's create some sort of action. From which the leadership could then build upon then and kenny k. Let's go over those names again. We've talked about in here for a couple of weeks. You got mark. Kelly coming from arizona. Kristen cinema who may have a different image different constituency but she jove mansion vote together about ninety five percent of the time hickenlooper coming in a moderate to conservative democratic governor. You've got mitt. Romney you've got susan collins. Who seems like she has. Something approve this year. Which has she's pretty powerful and can forge consensus. If she wants to lisa murkowski who's always been very independent. Pat toomey who has struck compromises before with joe mansion on some difficult issues. I mean you've got an jeanne. Shaheen jumping in lindsey. Graham was very involved in this and again. I think they've flooded the zone. They overwhelmed their own leadership. And one thing. I noticed in these negotiations. We are time and again. I don't know it's going to be dead because there's not the state and local later. Oh no it's gonna be dead because they don't have the liability shield for the corporations and time and again these i'll we'll just call them. The solution caucus said no. No okay. Listen we'll just put those to the side. Let's talk about the aid and then we can address those other issues. They really are. I not to be too glib here. But it is a problem solvers caucus. They actually were focused on getting something done instead of just bitching about the other side and we wake up this morning and actually they got something done regardless of discouragement from the top. Yeah and the met separately. They literally went away from capitol hill to have them meeting in one of the senators house and they decided you know what we're just going to come up with the bill. We're going to come up with concepts or principles we're going to come up with legislation and present that to leadership sometimes congressional leadership doesn't love these gangs because as we have just seen they can get themselves a whole lotta power by being as you say solution oriented people that can get things done and they can. Act in a bipartisan way. We thought bipartisanship was totally out of the window in this congress. We've just had our first demonstration of it. It'll be interesting. To see two things if democrats were to win and georgia and have the slimmest of majorities do we still see some of those republicans coming over in that situation and once joe biden is president still see as many of those republicans again coming over and working with democrats does that does that caucus manage to hold because either way whether the democrats take children. They're gonna have this tiny majority that cool 'cause if it holds could have a huge amount of power as joe biden goes into a legislative session. That is going to have massive hurdles a need to do big substantial legislation of the kind of infrastructure and second stimulus abilities already talking about. There's no way you can get that done without this centrist group from the other side as well even with georgia. If for some reason. And it's highly unlikely. I still believe it's highly unlikely. Even if both of those senate seats in the special election go democratic you're sitting at fifty fifty and then you have what was described as chuck schumer's worst case scenario a month before the election and that is a fifty fifty senate where the breaking vote is not the vice president. Tiebreaking vote is joe manchin and so regardless of how this shakes. You're going to be hearing a lot of exaggeration. It's going to be the end of the world if it breaks one way or the other. No you're still going to have these ten moderate slash conservatives sitting in the center no matter who's called majority leader and they're going to be striking some compromises over the next two years if if this country is lucky at all if we actually get some legislation passed instead of just having executive order signed. It gets it's just get get through the next thirty days. Let's turn now to the ongoing trump coup. Still desperately seeking ways to overturn joe. Biden's election win. Here's how the lead in the washington post describes things quote with his baseless claims of widespread voter fraud rejected by dozens of judges and gop leaders. President trump has turned to a ragtag group of conspiracy theorists media lawyers and other political misfits in a desperate attempt to hold onto power after his election loss. The president's bid has grown more extreme as and more as his more mainstream including attorney. General william p bar have declined to endorse his increasingly radical. Plans to overturn the will of the voters. Trump's unofficial election advisory council now includes a pardoned felon adherents of the cunanan conspiracy theory a white house trade adviser and a russian agents former lover. so willy. these are a confederacy of dunces. That you would not want around your basic household appliances and certainly wouldn't want them going your shotguns on the back porch. They literally are a a rag tag group of misfits. Yeah that's putting it kindly. I think a rag tag group of misfits acumen congresswoman as mika just mentioned so cunanan officially is in the oval office sitting next to the president of the united states offering her council. You have just explained the underlying theory for those who don't understand what cunanan's underlying theories regarding cannibals and whatever else yet. The bottom line is that it believes their people in this country elites members of the media democrats mostly who are members of a satanist cabal that engages in. Pedophilia shot elected to the united states. Congress and now gets meetings with the president of the united states. Sydney powell the fringe attorney now appears to be at the right. Hand of president trump. Even that rudy giuliani on tv. Saying no she's not on our team while she's been in the white house three times in the last four days so the island is shrinking and president. Trump's bringing on whoever will join him in this final charade to overturn the election. One person who is not attorney. General william bar. He refused yesterday. Support the president in his quest to overthrow the election results that was on display yesterday at a news conference extensively to announce new charges related to the nineteen eighty-eight bombing of pan am flight one o. Three over scotland attorney. General bar knocked down a series of president. Trump's false claims and conspiracy theories he began with this comment on the hunter biden investigation. I think to the extent that There's an investigation. I think that it's being handled responsibly. and professionally Currently within the department to this point. I have not seen a reason to appoint a special counsel and i have no plan to do so before i leave. Okay so no special counsel on hunter biden then this from the attorney general on president. Trump's reported pushed to seize voting machines. High say no basis now for seizing machines by the federal government. You believe in on warrants special counsel to investigate that our. I thought a special counsel at this stage was the right tool And was appropriate. I would do. I would name one. But i haven't and i'm not going to okay. So no special counsel. They're not going to seize the voting machines and finally this on the president's claims that russia may not have been behind the massive cyberattack against the us federal agencies from the information. I have I agree with secretary pompeo's assessment. It's certainly appears to be the russians. But i'm not going to discuss it beyond that. So attorney general bar there. Jonathan lior agreeing with secretary of state pompeo and most cyber security experts that it was in fact russia something that the president has declined to say suggesting a tweet the other day that maybe it was china we should point out. Tomorrow is attorney general bars last day in office so that really was his valedictory news conference and he took all the time and took all the questions to make those points and the timing here. It's certainly not a coincidence. Willie and i think for terminal bar. There's a little bit of attempt to reshape or defend pieces of his reputation and legacy on his way out the door and attorney general of course who for most of his tenure was seen as being an extreme loyalist to the president From his first days in the job when he shaped and colored the mother report findings the most favorable way possible for president trump allowing the president to claim falsely that he had been fully exonerated. But certainly we saw here a clear break with the president on a number of subjects. One that did not go over. Well we are told in the oval office of the president of course had a heated meeting has had several heated means with bar in recent weeks. Last week accepted his resignation. And now the question is what comes next. Jeffrey rosen is the acting attorney general. And it's it's not clear how he will respond the pressure that is surely coming from the white house to appoint a special counsel About election fraud Even more impressively than the hundred biden case at least at this moment and to this point those around and say he's not inclined to do so but they don't know what will how he will respond to the demands from the oval office and the potential of course that rosen could get dismissed if the president wants to install someone else in that post but we are seeing also willie. This legal team This ragtag group of heiser. As we've been saying i mean there's divisions even within that is rudy. Giuliani suggesting that sydney powell does not speak for the president right now. But yet powell's been in the oval office three of the last four days. They can't agree on a strategy here. Certainly all their legal all of this all other legal challenges have been met with defeat and now tempting one last ditch effort this idea of that first week in january when recall congress meets to certify electoral college votes. They were trying to get garner. Both senators republicans from the gop to do the president's bidding to try to object that that's not going to work either. Joe biden is still going president-elect but it remains so very damaging to the democracy and undermining some at least in the minds of some americans the legitimacy of vines election. That's that's what's dangerous here and it is really important for georgia. Republicans to remember is as you go to vote my fellow georgia natives understand that kelly laughlin who is on the ballot right now sydney powell who is with the president of the white house every day now it seemed she says stay with me that kelley law flir was involved in a conspiracy with governor camp to illegally push off into still the election from doug collins all right so so according to the president's closest legal adviser right now kelly. Loftier shouldn't even be on the ballot. She stole the election along with brian. Count she stole the election from doug collins so since the president is working with this woman again. Just stand that that you've been cheated. They have stolen the vote from you. And you should get your retribution. By not letting somebody like kelly laughlin. Who's involved in this conspiracy theory get elected anyway. That's what sydney powell would would want. You to say sores rose and at the white house meek after bore leaves i. I can't imagine the strain. That is going to be on him. The pressure that he's going to be under when he's running the justice department is going to have to be crushing to his soul to endure that day. After my god he may even have to put up with ugly tweets for sixteen seventeen days. Really we'll see if he's man enough to be able to who've had seriously pressure you call that pressure sixteen or seventeen days in a nut house sixteen hundred pennsylvania avenue. Yeah please try not to screw it up and seventeen eighteen days. You're gonna have buddy. It's not really that much pressure follow the constitutes televangelist pat robertson. Who at one time had been one of the president's most ardent supporters called the on him to face the reality that he lost the election with all his talent and the ability of a to raise money and grow loesch crowds. The president still lives in an alternate reality. He really does people say well. He lies about this but no he didn't lie to him. That's the truth. He had the biggest crowd on inauguration day he had he had more people than ever He was the most popular of people he saved. Nbc but with the friends can go down. The line of things really are true. And you know people keep pointing to them. But because they loved him so much and he was so strong evangelical evangelical with him hall away but there was something about him would was good that god placed him in the office of the time. He's done a marvelous job the economy but at the same time He is very ready and he He's fired people. He's fought people that his insulted people and keeps going down the line. So it's it's a mixed bag. And i think it would be willing to say You've had your day hand. It's time to move on that robertson. Also say the president shouldn't run and twenty twenty four saying it would be a mistake. Well willie i. I gotta say this. I say been talking about a lot of evangelical preachers. I grew up with and certainly pat. Robertson came into my grandmoms house every day. And pensacola florida the seven hundred club. We watched pat day in and day out every time i was over there. She had it on. I mean he's got a strong strong voice in the evangelical community for decades. And this is a guy who at the end several times over the several months is actually been saying the sort of thing said other evangelical preacher should be saying but are too afraid to say but they're robertson just plainly saying a body. You've served time to go stop this nonsense. Yeah i mean that's a big deal. The seven hundred club and pat robinson still has big sway over a large flock of people who watch watches show. So that was a big statement. I mean there is something to this. Katty kay watching both pat robertson and william bar and some other republicans right now sort of jesus. If you'll forgive the expression and pat robinson pat robertson's case and now suddenly standing up to the president of the united states after four years of of what we watched. I guess we'll take it at the end here. Given what the president. The united states is trying to do still assembling people to carry out some kind of a lame coup. That he's still fixated on but you have these leading. Republicans leading evangelical and the attorney general now finally at the hour standing up to president trump. Yeah we wondered how long it was going to take didn't wee willie and maybe it took this put to president trump so focused on subverting the democratic process on on undermining democracy in america for these people finally to come out and say actually this has gone too far even though they're doing it in somewhat milder language. I think as you said at the beginning we're gonna have to get used to a certain level of hypocrisy over the next few months and years from republicans who've been store defenders all of the president as bill barham pat robertson have been a now coming out and saying actually this is not okay or you know whether it's on deficits whether it's on Vaccinations i mean. You know people who had been vacs pandemic skeptics now. Suddenly wanting to jump to the front of the queue get vaccinations. I think we're gonna see a lot of that in the challenge. I guess for joe biden is how much does call out. he use that potentially What does he do about all of those republicans who had been so in lockstep with the president and now prepared to come out and be less so the only thing i would say is that as we get the as the president becomes more exclusively focused on something that nearly everybody in the republican party thinks is a wild goose chase and is out in the fringe. He is surrounded by people who are more extreme. so he's got this very small group of republicans who prepared to follow him down. People like mo brooks sidney powell who they're in the white house with him and they really are the fringe of the trump supporters in washington. And that kind of leaves. The other people like bill baugh and pat robertson with a choice to make. Do i join them. Way out there or do i say what i have to say. What is obvious. Now and it seems that pat robertson's coming around to that don't let me just say i'm good with that bread conversions when constitutional norms are on the line. I'm good with deathbed conversions. Just i'll take a look at jesus's parable of people working in the fields. I don't care if you work in the fields all day or you come late the afternoon like if you're helping the cause right now. I got a really short memory. I just said that just really upset. A lot of people audience but bill clinton once told me and yeah you're thinking yet. Joe and bill clinton talk like now. We were just at an event backstage and he was commenting on another president. He said let me tell you something. He said the best thing. Any politician can have is a short memory. Because you're always going to need their tomorrow. That's what a lot of democrats a lot of republicans. A lot of americans need remember as we move into a new era we can sit back and growls and ring our heads over the horrors of the past. Four four and a half years knock gonna do us any good moving forward not going to be doing people working class americans any good who are suffering right now e. pluribus unum we've forgotten that let's refocus on it. Now let's talk about the house and specifically house leadership because jake you guys have been looking very closely what the democrats and republicans are thinking of their own leaders in the house and the senate. Nancy pelosi will actually. Let's focus on the house. Nancy pelosi and kevin mccarthy. What have you been finding as you guys have been making phone calls about the level of support. These two leaders have to continue to be speaker and minority leader. Will i think the big dynamics shift that you're going to see joe in the coming weeks and months. When joe biden takes the presidency is just a big shift of power back to capitol hill. When you have a president that's not taking up so much oxygen so to speak and what we found in the newest politico morning console polls fifty three percent of democrats want to keep pelosi as speaker and a forty eight percent of republicans would like to keep kevin. Mccarthy is house republican leader. Now listen the e we have to take these polls for what they are which is party leaders. Get up more. Get increasingly unpopular as time goes on but still this is a a useful metric to keep eye on as we get into this new congress and we get into picking leaders. Nancy pelosi is going to have to get two hundred eighteen votes on the house floor in just a couple of weeks. We expect that she's going get there but it's going to be a white knuckle experience as always is for a leader seeking the speakership so just to keep in mind as we get into this next congress with all the power shifting back to capitol hill. All right jake chairman. Thank you so much and still ahead on morning joe. Federal prosecutors say their investigation into rudy. Giuliani isn't only ongoing but that it's very active. Nbc's julia enslaved us with her latest reporting on that plus more than forty countries halted flights from the uk amid fears of a new strain of covert. Nine thousand nine hundred the. us however isn't one of them an update on that development. When morning joe restrain here we get it here just in time for the holidays. Hey kids save disease. Spread seventy percent faster Right back we get support from grubhub. I'm sure you knew about grub. 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Everyone's role on says we all these folks awful lot scientists and people who are frontline workers we own bit really get and one of the things is i think that administration deserves some credit getting us off the ground operation warp speed. I also think it's worth saying that this is great. Hope doing this to demonstrate. That people shouldn't be compared when it's available to take the vaccine. There's nothing to worry about. President elect joe biden received test. First dose of a covid nineteen vaccine yesterday and really did not even flinch question. We've seen the president-elect get it we've seen the current vice president getting it. I'm wondering as we talk if we talk about people who were key to america's economy an awful lot of people off track betting ecosystem that are waiting for you and me to get our shots because it has not been the same now. Obviously since there's been social distancing yes yes maybe we've gone in one or two times too many but at the same time. I think we should be next in line for that. Yeah i think so. I think you've got to protect that element of the american economy that frankly has carried us through this pandemic the beauty. Joe you and i were out front creating the otd app many years ago. Made for this era right now. So you don't have to be inside the betting parlor. You can play all your bets on harness racing akwa duct right there on your phone. That was great. It's you got my heart skipping a little bit right. There harness racing with dr one. Also the dogs we betting the little doggies meanwhile more than forty countries. Can we take you back with. No really no. We really need now telling you need to take you there when you take the dog track You know willie. And i We we tried to participate in much of lives rich pageant as possible. And you need you need to go along with what gets to get your vaccine. Ah i think we can get one for you because if you if you go to. Tv and dog racing with us. I i will adopt all the dogs and there will be no more dog racing. That's more than forty countries halted flights from the united kingdom amid fears of a new more infectious strain of covid nineteen circulating. Their parts of england including london were placed under a new lockdown over the weekend as prime minister. Boris johnson warned that the new corona virus strain was seventy percent more transmissible but us pulpit public. Health officials are reportedly not advising a similar ban on travelers from the seems to make sense if you want seventy percent. dr anthony. Pouching warned against quote over reacting to the situation but governors across the country are taking matters into their own hands. Washington state's governor. Jay inslee issued a proclamation yesterday calling for travelers from the uk south africa and other nations. Where the new kobes strain has been reported to quarantine for fourteen days. New york's governor. Andrew cuomo has called on the federal government to ban travel from the uk and has airlines to test travelers from the united kingdom to the state and former fda commissioner. Scott gottlieb says he doesn't think a travel ban will prevent the mutated strain from coming into the united states. Because he believes it's already here. You rent great news katty. Kay what are your holiday plans. Look like hiding with with shootings an old executive. But this has been really a tough tough on for boris johnson. A guy who early on in this process say he and his cabinet trotted out the idea of herd immunity. He'd been a skeptic for some time. Got it struggle with it. I mean mightily And seemed to find a religion a bit But still No saying he was gonna open things up for christmas than he had to shut christmas down. Now this seventy percent number Certainly having to be very jarring to the people in great britain do not mess with brits and christmas it's sort of goes dickensian over there and so people are furious. He really has very little support because the government is seen to have handled this not very well. I mean the first indications are the scientists saw this new strain back in october. And i think scott gottlieb is right. It seems to me almost impossible if it was back there in october. And we've been having flights to and from the uk and is seventy percent more transmissible. It seems really hard to imagine that it has all you need one person to bring it over on a plane right and that person to meet other people and i think we have a strong chance that over the next few weeks we might see this up in the in the us. Anyway the first version of the kurt aware navarro was so much fun that they decided to give us another one that was even more efficient and in the movie. This is going to be the twist fifteen minutes before the end where you've got the vaccine racing to get it out and then you get hit by new strand that is potentially going to overwhelm our health services for the uk. It feels kind of armageddon. I have family members who have now got stuck in different places not where they wanted to be family members who are planning to fly home this week. They've been looking off to my dad after my mom died. They can't get back home because the countries that meant to be living in have said no. You're not allowed in there's a massive amount of disruption we've got thousands of truck stuck ports because they can't get into france likewise backing up on the french side trying to get in and guess what at the same time this is our deadline for negotiating brexit deals. It's all coming together and the uk both symbolically and literally looking increasingly isolated. You're right you have to have some sympathy for boris johnson. But there are a lot of people in the uk who will say the whole way. He has handled. This has just been so chaotic so late should he have given people a chance to get out of london. He gave them twenty four hours almost to get out of london. And then you saw these massive scenes at train stations like remember when you see the scenes of people when the germans were about to invade. Paris parisians fled. That's what london look like. And of course they're all standing at train stations with no mosques on and potentially spreading this virus even further no several airlines governor cuomo announced history several airlines will test and you travel or coming from the uk into new york city. At least we'll come back to that in just a moment. Let's turn though to the investigation into president. Trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani two sources. Tell nbc news prosecutors for the southern district of new york are trying to gain access to giuliani's emails but i need approval from federal counterparts before seeking a search warrant joining us now. Nbc news correspondent. Juliet ainsley. who's on this story. So juliet good morning. What exactly would investigators be looking for in this case. How well they would be looking for. All of his electronic communications in particular has email. But it's really complicated. Really because as you point out. Not only is juliani an attorney. He's the president's attorney and so when you talk about getting information getting communications that are protected. Under attorney client privilege. Some of these would be you have to go through injustice and a lot of times they set up. What's called filter teen. These are people who have the very tedious task of reviewing communications deciding. What is protected and then they are the ones who decide what to hand over to prosecutor so that prosecutors don't see anything that could be protected under attorney client privilege. Now we've talked about giuliani. He wears many hats. Some of these communications very well could not be protected by attorney client privilege but then the added layer that he is the president's attorney and we understand that that could be a reason why some of this investigation was at least kind of went quiet for a while that you can't take overt actions and an investigation that is closely tied to a candidate and at that time the president was a candidate In the lead up to the elections at that's why we may have not heard as much about this investigation. In fact we've really hadn't heard much about what was happening in this investigation into rudy. Giuliani out of the southern district of new york. Really since last february we knew that these investigators were interested in his bank records at a lot of this stemmed from his activity in ukraine very activities. That were in the spotlight during the president's impeachment trials been now. We're hearing that. This is ramping back up to sources say it's ongoing one telling me it is quote. Very active so julia. Is this an investigation just about rudy giuliani and potentially as you say his dealings with ukraine we know that levin e gor were arrested recently. They plead not guilty. But does this reach into the president's orbit specifically or is this just about rudy giuliani. So at this point we don't know the scope and especially hard because like we said we. We haven't known about it for so long. There's a lot that investigators can come across in an investigation like this especially with someone like religiously who is involved in so many pieces of the president's life and so of course this these are headlines that we would expect in the white house to look at and not just think. Oh that's that's a ukraine thing. We put that to bed. You're talking about the communications of rudy. Giuliani also interested in those communications. He would have had with the president. And that's why that pardon trigger now. Seems like something the president may. We know he's been talking about with rudy giuliani. That's been reported And so. I think that that is even more of something that we want to be looking for now because if the president not only wanted to protect rudy giuliani but also himself knowing that some of his communications could be seen by investigators. That pardon is in his back pocket and because federal investigation the president does have the power and all he would need is pardon to put this entire investigation to bed. And as we know it's ramping up and it takes a lot for prosecutors to even get to the step that we're talking about really which means they have to have a lot of information before they go seeking a search warrant julia. John's lemaire wanted to follow up on that exact threat. Is there have been any two quick questions for you is any indication that there's any sort of state probe state level probes into giuliani therefore The pardon would not apply and of course as we've been discussing terminal bars about to head out the door to be replaced by this acting attorney. General jeffrey rosen. Do you have any sense as to where he stands on this as he'd been briefed z. Involved at all on this investigation into guiliani. Well i'll say i have no indications that there are state level investigations at least from my reporting. And then when you talk about jeffrey rosen. I think that's a great question. We know that he is involved in so far as the deputy in the number two at the justice department is an above the criminal division. He sees everything that has been criminally investigated throughout the justice department. You could imagine that something. This high profile would have crosses desk just like many of the other high profile politically involved investigations during his tenure but his role won't be key because main justice has such a more important role in an investigation. Like this where we talk about that filter team attorney client privilege and we talk about investigating someone this close to the president. Meeting just has a bigger role than the usually wet and other southern district or other investigations. Sometimes we call it the sovereign district of new york because they can do so much on their own. When this case may justice does play a key role. It's not clear what direction rosen may take. But he would have the ability to put a block on things like a search warrant but as we understand. Now it's ramping up. And i do not have any indications that he himself is putting his thumb on the scale but of course. That's that's the next thing to watch for as well as pardon you can read the full peace at nbc news dot com nbc's. Julia ainsley. Thank you so much for your reporting as always deceive. Mika coming up with less than a month left in donald trump's presidency our next guest says he still at the center of those georgiev runoff elections that will determine control of the senate. We'll dig into that reporting next on morning. Joe we get support from net sweet. 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Everything is at stake when it comes to the need to elect reverend rafael warna to elect jon ossoff to elect daniel blackman. Everything is at stake. Everything that was at stake in november is at stake leading up to january fifth vice president-elect kamla harris campaigning in georgia. Yesterday for the to democratic candidates in the senate runoff elections now two weeks from today joining us now national correspondent for new york magazine. Gabriel de benedetti. Whose deep dive into the georgia races for the magazine's latest issue is entitled. The devil's went down to georgia in which gay rights quote in the newest swing state. All of the senate run off. Candidates are relying on trump for one last turn out extravaganza. Are they going to get it. Gave well. it certainly looks like the turnout is off the charts. Compared to what we've seen the previous runoffs at least it's not yet clear. It's going to match exactly what we got india general election but so far. This is good news really for everyone involved. The democrats feel pretty good about the fact that there is so much interest in this race remains to be seen of course whether this is going to drop off a little bit over the holidays but you see it there in what vice president-elect kamala harris said yesterday in in the state the stakes are enormous in this race and that's lost on absolutely no one. There was some time there where everyone in. The state was a little bit worried that there was going to be an attention. Drop off but you know. Basically after a few days after the after the general election in november they're picked right back up. And i gotta tell you. It is completely overwhelming on the ground there. It is inescapable. This race is just a fact of life for every single person in georgia right now. Gabe at the center of the conflict here for republicans is the fact that president trump and by the way the two senators running for reelection said the previous election was rigged despite the fact that the vote has been counted three times and yet they're asking republicans to go out and vote again. So how are kelly. Leffler and david purdue walking that line of being seen as siding with president trump they don't want to alienate his voters. But also getting people out there to vote. I'd say this is the central conflict that they're trying to deal with every single day. They're two answers to this one. Is they dodged questions about it. They're not willing to deal with the actual substance of the question. But to what they say is they try to be when they are cornered on this essentially told the trump line and say well. We still have to investigate. The president is right to legal recourse. But you know what's really important. Is this right here right now and you saw it when the president himself actually went down to georgia him you know. When he took the stage in valdosta he essentially said he got to make sure that you vote for doing leffler to make sure the communists don't win. That's how i the democratic candidates but then he spent the rest of the time essentially you know talking about how the last race in his words was ring so clearly this is a massive concern for the republicans but the way that they're trying to just bulldoze through it is essentially saying we can't let these democrats win. We can't have socialist control of washington. Which of course is a scare tactic right from the trump You know trump. It gave jonathan amir picking up on that point. The president is expected to come back to georgia in week. Or so what are you talking. What are you talking to republicans there. Is there any anxiety that he'll contain these attacks on the republican georgia the carpeting governor of georgia the republican secretary state of georgia. And you open by saying that the enthusiasm is has been off the charts. So are you seeing. Have their fears to this point but unfounded that that trump's claims a rigged election might sort of persuade them some republicans and georgia and say well. My vote doesn't matter. I won't even bother you feeling like maybe somewhere embracing the thought that it's rigged but they're still gonna out in the first week of january so far. What we've seen is a lot of what you just talked about. A lot of people say this is rick but we still gotta get out there to support trump. And that's certainly the point that the republicans are trying to make however it is really complicated for a lot of these folks especially for kelly. Leffler one of the candidates here who was appointed by brian campaign. Who are career to him. And you know when you have president trump going after camp such strong terms that makes very difficult for. But it's an important thing here to knows that we're really talking about race. It's going to be won or lost on the margins. So that's why everybody on. Both sides is trying to make sure that we essentially have a hundred percent turnout on both sides because this is going to be so close if you look at how georgia went in november. It was the closest race in the country. Were likely to see a pretty close race. Once again of no one's really sure what that's going to look like. So that's why you have president trump coming back and that's why the republicans are welcoming him back. Essentially saying we're just gonna have to use every single tool in our arsenal to make sure that every republican in the state turns out democrats. Say come on back. you know. He motivates voters to all right. We'll be reading the new reporting and new york magazine. Gabriel de benedetti. Thank you so much for coming on the show this morning and still had a real mess. That's how new reporting is describing the crises. That trump is leaving behind for joe biden. We'll speak with the washington post and garin. How trump is reportedly undermining biden before he takes office morning. Joe is back in a moment. Hi it's msnbc's alley vel. She you know these days. There's just so much news to wrap your head around. It's hard to know what's most important. That's why we're updating msnbc dot com with a special feature on our homepage called msnbc daily. It's a place where you'll find the same type of expert analysis. You're used to getting on tv. But now with the new written perspective section all neatly organized in one place so you can go beyond the headlines and get a deeper understanding of the stories that matter. Most you'll find perspectives written by people uniquely qualified to write them people. You're familiar with from our network. 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