The Imbalanced History Of Rock And Roll: An Overview of The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame
Gray and Marcus on the imbalance history of rock and roll anybody. We have a very special guest today. A man I've known a long longtime and it's true you can't lie Paul. I'm talking about my buddy neander Paul Paul Marshall part of the market and the Interpol morning show on on KS Election Phoenix. Hey Man I am well for those that need a little breath. Refresher Course Ray at one point offered me an exorbitant fee to knockout couch Jesse camp and a bar one night all ready to do it was already too and he walked in with his representative who happened to be one of our closest friend and scuttled but I remember Ray and another person who shall remain nameless several hundred dollars on the end of the bar if I go up in a cold talk yet the faith it is one of my life biggest regrets never having done home. I Got Paul. That's classic that's out there. That is is going to have to know. Sure hope so as twenty years ago. Wasn't it longer than that. But yeah well while you've never been shy about revealing things and or your feelings or opinions on things and When it came to the Rock Hall Class at Twenty Twenty any you posted something on social media and you know Marcus Goldman my buddy marcus in the dark as we Certainly do we chat like girlfriends on social media and in texting and stuff about all this stuff all day about the podcast and we both saw your post on your neanderthal page at the ram the same time and started saying we got a call. Paul get them on to talk about this. I think we want to run through your original statement if we have time for that to kind of set things up for people so they know what we're talking about they know we're talking about the imbalance history of rock and roll in. It is always brought to you by crooked. I bere- in the heart of Hafbro. Paul if you have come to town and Philly sometime. We're going to go there. You'RE GONNA fall in love with bruise there a crooked eye so if they serve beer. I'm in I know it's one of the things I love about it. Really good beer in your statement you said today. I declared the Rocker Hall of fame as relevant today have been asked to elaborate. I receive some questions and wanted to share the response here and you said to the in the post. Here's what I told. The Questioner Jenner is the hall of Famer Relevance based upon. And you said who has not been inducted and you said yes. Yeah you want to elaborate a little bit on the things that are on the top of your mind. Look first and foremost. I don't want to bad mouth. Any of the inductees. No they did nothing wrong. I'll be picking at what they do. And somebody voters resented mortals and. I think that's great but I was thinking sort of obnoxious that the Rock Hall of fame would put a band in or an artist. In without whom aband- they overlooked having having existed. This band wouldn't exist for example. Brian can't put nine inch nails into the rock and Roll Hall of Fame Without First Inducting Gibo and craft work to ban Dan that without whom Trent redner hadn't heard he would never have bought his first computer and realize you could make music with irritates me about the Rock Hall of fame that day. Inductive van that are pioneers that invented and popularized a circle of the Caen mortality. That's musically mortality. If you're banned invent a a form of music or your singular in what you do and music has different after your band appeared on the scene can yes you are hall of Famer will you can put the MC five in that boat. They were up for this year to. You're getting into who has been inducted in not inducted and there's somebody who did exactly what you're talking about the empty five in the Kingston a coup invented punk rock. So why aren't they add right. It makes no sense absolutely makes no sense and the MC five with the first American punk rock band if it worked for the MC five then the ramones don't exist as my friend she though Koto this when it came to Punk Rock America fired first so there you go yeah no the stooges in the MC and how long did it take the students to get in long-term longtime and that's where when when the original question was is irrelevant on the Rock Hall of fame based upon those that haven't been inducted absolutely because they have ignored pioneers. They have ignored artists that without whom existing music would be where it is today. AAC Me there is music before this artist and music after the artists and music after this artist is different based upon the appearance of this artist. And not the hall of Famer. That's immortal mortgage hard to argue a case against that man and argue with that at all now a couple years ago. You made a long post about the nominees whether you thought they might get Dr Not. It was the year that sister Rosetta Tharp was nominated and inducted and at that point. I think you had said you weren't really sure. But she's quite a pioneer ear. I'd heard about her about fifteen years ago for the first time saw video on Youtube and was blown away by her guitar playing then I was reading some stuff about her and Elvis's listen. Guitar Player said that without people like sister Rosetta tharp. I wouldn't be here today so she ended up being one of those big time. Pioneers who sort of lived in obscurity. DNA took her a long time to get in and women have been treated very poorly as far as getting into the rock and Roll Hall of fame. I couldn't agree more now. The thing with was that a thought and this is a great example of contradiction. Because I didn't know enough about her to say yeah okay. He's in the Rock Hall of fame. He deserves to be in the Rock Hall of fame. One of the great things things at the rock and Roll Hall of fame has an opportunity to do is to educate and to draw awareness and do bring forth those pioneer to make the public aware that these people existed listed. And you're right sister. Rosetta Dr Arguably one of the greatest. If not the greatest female guitar player that has lived and yet we didn't know because back then in the fifties and fifty. Let's face it not only. Is it the sex industry. It's still a racist industry. Why Chuck various not acknowledged as the reigning King of rock and roll because nobody in America was ready to give the crown around to an African American back then can argue with that either so so Rosetta tharp gets overlooked and by the way that chain of overlooked female L. Stars continues with the exclusion of Benetton so far so far north happened? I don't know she was all over the radio during our younger years man. She was so so all over the radio with her albums her songs and they weren't just one or two songs from each album. You would hear on the rock and roll rick the AOR stations four five five six songs deep on her albums that they were deep. They were deep song thing but hell is for children. Anybody else about outside of uncle salty from aerosmith. I don't think I remember another song about child abuse not like that being a popular song. A popular song don't happen. It's not just a pop dr not to somebody who was a popular figure in American culture but also was writing some cheap stuff. Some things that not only did men knocked right about women wouldn't even touch the and yet they inducted mcdonagh. Her first opportunity. Madonna doesn't exist. If Benetton doesn't kick that you also talked in your Post about the question of is it about who has been inducted adopted and you said no because a lot of people WANNA pick You know this one should Nagai in and Y you're talking about a line lineage and chronology the you know the people who benefited from the pioneer are in and yet the person who was the pioneer. The five are not. So it's not about who's been inducted in your view. Because you see how well look and I think primarily this is a semantic argument with me and that is when people like Madonna Madonna get inducted but people like Pat Benner tar get ignored and they call it the rock and Roll Hall of fame. Let's just get this out of the way right now. Rock and roll is a trademark. It's an instantly identifiable faial brand name. It's Kinda like when you hear somebody say. Give me a coke. They're not talking about coca-cola talking about the flavor rock and roll is all encompassing when it comes to music it's a wide breadth music and there's a huge difference between Brenda Lee and Metallica. And yet they're both considered rock and roll. So when somebody like Madonna who isn't traditionally considered rock and roll is inductive but somebody like Pat. Ben Atar who is the epitome of the definition is ignored. It's not about that artist. Pat Ben Atar big gap Madonna so when the business artists that would be the big argument. This time around will be the notorious who's the next logical evolution from screaming Jay Hawk and who suck up over the week from the part two quick them Brooklyn streets fuck all that switch with them and then she the counted ninety five on the wings. Mac brought on by we. We got screaming. Jay Hawkins we got Little Richard. We got Chuck Berry. We got sly stone. We got Prince we got. They'll be digging. We're GONNA get at some point. We may get Bruno Mark. You know what I mean like. There's an evolution that happens. So the idea that the rock and Roll Hall of fame is inducting traditionally non rock artists. Look there's a huge difference between Carl all perkins and the doors. But they're both rock and roll MANDIC argument. I think it's a weak argument. Man All this gabbing with Paul Marcus. I feel like I need a beer. Yeah Yeah Palsy blasted to rid great opinions. But I'm dry. There's only one place to go when I'm dry KRILL. I know when I'm thirsty. I head to the heart of Hapur and go see my friends at crooked eye brewery. I want to thank Paul Paul and the whole gang for their support for our podcast. It's been great. Yeah when you WANNA taste the freshest most creative brews in the Buck Mont you go to crooked Eye at York road and Montgomery right there. The Heart Hafbro pouring the cure for what ails you. Since two thousand fourteen the crooked eye crew makes every single night fund. Hey you can keep up with a live entertainment on the breweries facebook page. That's the best way we know what's happening there including their free Tuesday nights blues jam which is taken off the home brewers club and my partner in crime raise vinyl nights which are the third when Thursday of the month as brewers me and live music. All the time including the crooked eye band is always good fun to be had a new friend to be. He made a crooked eye and we wanNA thank them as always for their support of what we do on this crazy imbalanced podcast. When you need a fresh tasty brew head to Hap- Borough make it crooked? I we are refresh. So let's get back to it with the Andhra Paul talking about the hall on the Balanced History of rock and roll. You also mentioned the criteria. I used to induct in. You said it's a secret for a reason. It's not random nor is it merit based. I think it's the most nebulous part of of the formula is the criteria because nobody seems to know in. It's because you have a whole theory on this which I tend to agree with because it's the guys who got together to form the rock and Roll Hall of Fame Club Have Control of all of it pretty much right. Yeah and I don't want to name drop into a rock and Roll Hall of Famer a reluctant rock rock and Roll Hall of Famer from one of America's greatest rock band and they're from in New York City and there were a lot of makeup in their early years. You know who I'm talking about that to me during an interview imagine if you had trademarked the name rock and Roll Hall of Fame You could be the rock and Roll Hall of fame. And that's essentially what happened here. Was John Winner. And and a couple of guys from rolling stone. Who are one of the more elitist music magazine on the face of the earth? Remember rolling stone historically bad mouth every led Zeppelin record when they came up rolling stone. Stone is an elitist group of in the know click that they believe that bans like television and the talking heads and and that might be down. You think they believe that those band and Lou Reed are the be all end all of the coolest thing about rock when you see the movie almost famous get that great Characterization of Lesser Bang talking about how these guys are ruining rock and roll. We've talking about Rolling Stone Paul. We Love Lester bangs on the podcast. Great example die. He understands that the opinion of the elite the opinion of a small group of People's necessarily represent everybody. But when you say rock and Roll Hall of fame somewhere along the line the word rock and Roll Hall of fame put together lend credibility credibility. There is no real credibility to just a bunch of people who thought. Hey these are people. We want to immortalize now the undeniable undeniable. Unless you're the rock and Roll Hall of fame it's easy to say Chuck Berry's Hall of Famer. It's easy to say led Zeppelin famer. It's easy to say. But here's a great example. How the fuck is an ozzy? Osbourne a rock and Roll Hall of Famer America Solo Artist because he bit the head off of the bat and he's scares people and he is the single largest recording artists in hard lock history. He's the Elvis of hard rock and heavy metal. Young is the epicenter of what hard rock in that form of music is and I'm not talking about it's worked with Black Sabbath. It can be argued that odd to work is more important and relevant than black Sabbath work without a doubt remember. All of the controversy was suicide solution. and Mr Crowley and all of that and then I was reading a book and Zach. Wow there's somebody said that. Ozzy saw the picture of Alister Crowley and was like who's that hat and he's like. Oh that's Alister Crowley and he's like. Oh that's what he looks like. Maybe he didn't. He was bald with a beard or something like that and I think it was in the latest John. Wieder hornbook. But that's a perfect perfect example of what we're talking about. Guys the fact that Ozzy as a solo artist isn't it in there. You know I know that there are people who were in two and three ways and that's great great for what they've done but why not acknowledge a man who's one of the great voices in rock has been there through it all including the most recent chapter. Let me get the straight Eric. Clapton gets into the rock and Roll Hall of fame as a member of Delaney and Bonnie's band but The osbournes not a rock and Roll Hall of Famer because this elitist group of people who have just just chosen who've decided to decree upon the chosen ones. This immortality. Don't like Ozzy they don't like Judas or or bad company to which is Orange Theri manilow or the guy wrote the the guy in American bandstand and he's not in the rock and Roll Hall of Fame Oats to get listen. We're on the Pantheon podcast network and there's actually A podcast that. That's what they talk about. It's called who cares about the Rock Hall and people who wanted to hear more about other people's opinions opinions about all this stuff even some of the people who are inside that committee to good podcast. Check out here on Pantheon. We're hanging with neander Paul on the imbalance history of rock and roll. Oh He's on the morning. Show a castle phoenix with the market. Neanderthal is that crazy every day you and market and things started for for Phoenix and It beats working for a living. You guys are in Philadelphia. I can tell you I never have to shovel my walkway in three in the morning. And and you know look. I've been doing this for thirty three thirty four years and it's a good way to make a living. Look anybody and I've said this to you before Ray and I know some people will argue but anybody. That's in radio. It was a failed musician. This is the second best job in the world next actually making music people. Ask Me Paul and I tell them the only thing I can plays records. Yeah I mean I if I had any the musical talent I certainly would have made it when it was an opportunity but then nineteen ninety-one happened and Nirvana got credit for kicking. Open the door that Jane's addiction opened five years before that and then allison changes made a bunch of noise with the tween in between so they actually made the noise and mother love bone was making all sorts of noise before Andy would died. And let's not forget that in nineteen eighty eighty four little band called the cult a common territory as hoping you would run little song called Sanctuary for rock radio. I aren't the caught. In the rock and Roll Hall of fame makes no sense. We probably would sit down and do all this so so. Let me ask you this if somebody were to have the money to start a rock and Roll History Museum and do a rock and Roll History Museum Hall of Fame Name And Make It a nonprofit type of deal. That's based on this type of stuff. Do think it would be more effective and credible than the rock and Roll Hall of Fame Institution Institution not the musicians of course and people need to understand. We're not slagging on any of the musicians because they are professional musicians. They are all masters at their craft after all great at what they do deserve to be they deserve to be where they are but a lot of founders as we discuss are left out. And we're talking about the the institution and the decision makers. I think what we're talking about is the sins of omission. Yes no and I think that look anytime. Music isn't a competition right. And I think what happens with any time you start giving award or are it becomes subjective and it gets we. Are you know the rock and Roll Hall of fame based on whose idea rock and roll at least when they award the platinum album if the recording industry of America or at least when they give out the academy award it you know the whatever the Film Academy whatever they call it Mitchell name bit so there's at least an attributed door you're somebody that has a source of credibility the rock and Roll Hall of fame is it just is what it is so let's just say it was like the National Recording Arts and sciences music achievement or something like that achievement achievement versus hall of fame because all fame means that somebody is going to be excluded and. I don't know that there's any right way to do it. I think what they're doing with the experience music project in Seattle. It's nice because it's a museum dedicated to to the local the local contributions to it. I think that's fantastic. I think anytime you start talking about competition. Can you know. There are certain things that we can all agree on. We all agree on the Beatles. We can all agree well. I don't know that we can all agree on the Beatles because there are people who get it don't like the Beatles acknowledge the fact that their the single most important musical artist of our time. I think it's your doc. You're talking about subjective opinions and the sensible mission is really the issue. I don't care who got in but I do care who doesn't get in and you can't can't ignore the obvious in your Post When we were talking about this you said unfortunately artists and fans are annually led to believe the fan vote matters to the fans hands? It's become a source of debate. That's not a bad thing. Keeps the spirit of music lively this year Kinda stood out because you had to artists who were nominated who led the fan vote and neither one of them got in have been a tornado tapping yeah. It is what people don't understand that I believe and correct me if I'm wrong because again. This goes back to the criteria period for induction. I believe at the panel of thousand votes right and it made up of some music industry people gun critic some members of the rock and Roll Hall of fame and the Fan but well the a fan vote out of all those hundreds of thousands or millions of votes that are cast throughout the five or six artists that they have in their only counts for one of those one thousand votes. That's hired to fill the fans. The fans are one one thousand of the factor to get somebody in so in that instance who care. It's a Kokin thing. What sock is it does activate a fan base which which is always good anytime we can sit here and talk about music and debate that this is great this kind of division in America that is welcome because it doesn't really mean anything and in the end nobody gets? Ah No just maybe a feeling to you know if you get personally I hope thing is about the metal bias You have multiple nominees is this year Judas. Priest's and motor head. You can make a case for soundgarden. Because that's how we first heard about him was when we did Metal Radio Paul and none of those fans got in and yeah. I don't know what the process will be with any of those artists or others in the hard rock heavy metal category. That aren't in but there's definitely the group bias for or or against certain types of music and services. Well then Nicholas back to that small group of people who are the final movers and shakers and artists in their club. It which is why I say. There's no accountability to it right when it's a blind process when it's a secret process when you go to the Conclave and you wait for the white smoke to come out of the staff you know you say to yourself okay. They've now decreed upon it. We don't know from what I understand and again I don't know this to be true. So this is all rumor and conjecture hearsay from what I understand. In order to be considered for the rock and Roll Hall of fame you have to be presented by somebody and sponsored by somebody like it's a motorcycle club or something like that or a knighthood and yeah somebody has to present you in front the Almighty people and then they sit in the room and they're all of Almighty sit back and go should we. I don't know maybe what if we made a donation to the rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation. Oh yeah well like everything else you know. Money is the lifeblood of Societe from what I understand. There is a financial consideration or consideration fedaration for the rock and Roll Hall of fame just like well. Don't know this certainly goes brings us back to ozzy. This goes back to the pay. Place at certain bands get on certain tours is based upon their record company and or management and or some sponsor paying for that acts. It is my understanding that you can pay for access into the rock and Roll Hall of fame as well any initial consideration. I want to say to that thirty anything else. Yeah I love your perspective. Always you know that you never fail to To stir things up there Paul. No matter where you've been whenever we've talked this. This is the constant you know when you were in Sacramento or Kansas City. Are there in Phoenix. which which I hope you will stay there and entertain the people in Phoenix for a long time? No matter what it is you always loved to stir shit up and that's why you keep it interesting Bro. Well look music is a great thing. Look everybody talks about radio and music discussion. Everyone says it's not brain surgery. No it's way more important than this is the kind of stuff that he people from going nuts over watching the new. This music is such an emotional attachment. Listen to music music they listen to music or the connection and a and when you are connected and passionate about something anytime somebody flag your favorite band tribal like your favorite sports team your arms and you try to defend spend your fourth team which brings me to a closing thing that I wanted to hit you with and I know you're trying to wrap up. The argument between the band doesn't hurt anybody but when artist who has played the way at their crap for thirty forty fifty plus years right and their name on a nomination about Obama craff work or a band right the empty spot or band like motor at all of the in classic lineup of motorhead Argonne. You know they got Linda Ronstadt in before she's half which would the quality move on the part of the Rock Hall of fame but you and I both know a lot of these guy. I front going to beat here so when you see 'em see five who everybody but the rock and Roll Hall of fame knows are pioneers in a musical form. And they see their name on the ballot and they finally validation Dacian for our light work and then their Passover in favor of somebody who may or may not be deserving as that band irving. That's the key answer Sakib as deserving because of what they did in the door they opened we could go on forever about this but I know you've got to run to you. Just got off the Air Karen. Thanks for taking some time to talk about your view on the Rock Hall here. It almost sounds like the Who Cares about the Rock Hall podcasts? We've been going on about it but dude I just WanNa tell you before we get out of here and sign off. I'm GonNa go put on a copy of electric warrior. I'M GONNA kick back and we're just going to celebrate the T. Rex got in and I will go home and put on actually at home. I will go in my office. Input on a copy of electric cafe. And listen to Boeing boom chuck from craftwork and give my finger to Trent redner for not saying take my spot and give it to craft where deserve more than I do. He did just so you know when he was nominated he did say that. I do feel that if we get in without craft were getting in. I will feel very very uncomfortable. They should be in before us and he did interview. And I don't know if people realize this gangsta rap wouldn't be what it is without craft work that's a whole nother another day or wait a minute. We already did that. One didn't address Schwartz told us the whole story about that with school. He d. It was crazy how that Chris being in the craft work and working with school. How a lot of that stuff spun together was in our episodes? We did to episode interview with Chris Shorts from Rough House and rough nation right and hip hop wouldn't be where it is today. We're not prepared from Belli's choirs bands. So you know it is what it is this all ties together together for those people that don't think that hip hop Rasmin rocket does yeah. You're right Bro. You're right and Whitney Houston is the natural progression of aretha Franklin and Billie early holiday and Nina Simone and all of them as well and people fail to see that connection to unfortunate that we ought up in semantic So you know. I wish that everybody that deserving the bands and artists that can congratulate you for them on the rock and Roll Hall of fame or ignoring parts that it's been there and open in the door and by the way had those artists wouldn't have been a role in film magazine. There wouldn't be a rock and Roll Hall of fame. That's true that's where we're going to leave your brother at the my buddy neander Paul the mark in the Interpol show on Kfi LX mornings in Phoenix. Thanks for being with us here on the inbound history a rocket row you do wear Parkas when it's sixty degrees breath no marcus. I think that conversation could've gone on for another hour easily. There's so much to talk about that. We didn't even discuss I do crannies. We didn't get into all of our personal peeves and all that stuff but you know I think after talking all morning on his radio show and talking to us for a while. I think we got everything at all. I'm sure he's in the quiet room for the rest of the day. You could find him on the market. neanderthal shows okay S. L. X. in Phoenix every day. And he's always on the Internet. You can find him on facebook and stuff. He's a great follow. And you could follow us while you're there if you don't already do so on facebook it's the imbalance history of rock and roll on twitter. It's imbalanced his Co.. Without the WI. Thank you twitter and then of course You you can follow our personal pages as well Ray Kube Radio and Marcus in the darkest obscene people from the podcast. Showing up on on my on my so. Yeah if you're following are imbalanced history of rock and roll check us out as well on our social media pages email always works. We see some of you making comments on the website. That's good too. But e mail is imbalance history at G MAIL DOT COM. We had a beer in the middle of this. I think we need another one zero absolutely Nelson Serious condo about the Rock Hall while we head to Crooked Brooke it I think on it all. We'll say see until next time here on the imbalance history of rock and roll. Hey this is Brad page from the. I'm in love with that song. podcast outcast inviting you to join me as we explore a different song each episode discovering. What makes these songs? Great the The performances arrangements and the production tricks and techniques are all part of creating those magic moments to turn a good song into a great one on this podcast. We take a deep dive into each song listening to all those nuances came together to make a great song on. 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