You walk made it weird with the homes. Look what's happening weirdos. We are doing a live. You made it weird right off the bat. I'm gonna tell you live. You made it weird april tenth with me that now. Now jason jason jason schwartzman the incredible actor and musician music from matt burning her from the national and questions from you guys in the chat. Live an immediate an amazing. It's going to be great Its name your price. I know some people are working less than they usually are during the quarantine still wanting to come to name your price and those that are working. Maybe flood a little. Maybe flowed an extra buck to help those that that art so we can spread that around to the guests and everybody that's helping us produce the show. We hope to see their tickets at pete. Holmes dot com my website. Just points to the page for the tickets on april tenth. In the meantime meaning right. Now this is martin star. boy. I i loved episode so much. Let's get to it. 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I hope you enjoy it as much as i did and Get some harry's shave sports the show and i can't wait to see you at the live show on april tenth. Me thou jason schwartzman and burning. It's going to be an you. It's going to be incredible so please join us. If you can. Tickets at alms dot com for the live. In the meantime enjoy martin martin star. Get into it right down. Martin clause the martin clause boys and girls and martin had a good way to start There he is oriented missed. Oh don't give me that trademark flat. Hello how dare you our our you doing all right. Good nice to see you are you. Good yeah thanks. So i'm alive so that's a good start. Yeah yeah yeah well. We're we're recording. Is that okay. We just sort of start. I like that they. Hey how you doing. Are you know you said it wasn't video right video. Look at the towels hanging up behind me and the garbage camp. That was your aesthetic noser. It smells really bad in here. I have a son. And i use it a lot and you could tell a blind person could tell that. There's a sonnen here because it reeks and only away that a human body in a room with closed doors and windows can produce. So do you take a shit and massana every every once in a while. That's that's the main people. Don't talk about this but the main point of sauna thing is to get the bowels. The inside of your balance sweating. I don't think this is right. I'm going to do a little google. Search what we're today. You won't find it. You'd have to go on the dark web to find the this is real stuff. I'm gonna bring it wasn't as accurately as days. That's what i hear. I sometimes go to bang. I think it was. Joan of ray told me to go to bang and i do go to being every once in a while and you do get whatever they ask you do or you can ask jeeves. It's totally up to you. You've got options. Jeeves retired jeeves. Kicking it in the south of france. I think he's done see not know gbs. I'm gonna check right now. Ask ask jeeves. Ask jeeves almost while you're at a check web crawler. These things don't exist anymore ask. Jeeves is still there now. it's ask dot com. Well see jeeves politely. Moonwalked away be. You're right and he's relaxing. He's like you can keep the ask. I'm okay with asquith. Gbs is out you ask me. I don't go by name anymore. I liked jeeves. that's when i To bring you in kumail. And i were friends in two thousand and one. That's when we met reiger braggart. I don't wanna say we're closer than you could ever be But in another way maybe i could ask jeeves. That's the way to put it. I would just ask dot com one hundred percent. Jk but that time of my life is earmarked by asking gbs like the the novelty of how many like a full question and we have sort of gone full circle because now if you talk to alexa you talk to her like jeeves. Or any of those home butts We were watching frazier a couple nights ago. Where into frazier. who cares. And i said we paused. It and i said as david said alexa is david. Hi pierce again. Because he's kind of crazy for women on the show and we weren't sure if he was really achieving wonderful acting thing whatever and sometimes i'd like to. We'll be like this is what i found on the web. David hyde peers is has been dating a man or whatever like it'll just search for you but this time alexa just went. Yes david hyde pierce's get it just it just had it was but i mean like it will do the same thing if i say martin starr married like. It has certain facts that it keeps. Loaded ready to go and other things that gould. And so on. So exact amend but for some reason david hyde pierce's sexual orientation is in the frontline documented. Yeah that's public record She should have said sexuality is a spectrum. And who am i to say i like. What kind of a question is. You'd have to ask him personally. Honestly i don't feel comfortable. That's correct dancing. It's appropriate i. Who am i to say is the right answer and you say we are watching frazier. I just imagine you and your sauna and your arm kind of around your sauna eating popcorn. No the saana is all shitting in it. I'll watch disturbing things or for lack of a better shitting or lack of a better. I watched like the revenue. I'll watch things that like vowel. My wife has no interest in especially since we had a baby like dark. Things are off the table. So much like alan versus pharaoh for example like oh that has no place in our house. It's hard for me to watch. But that's what i'll watch in my little man cave. I hate man cave but in this little area it doesn't make it onto the big screen in the halstead. Documentary is towns. Have you watched it all. I i assume i guess on. Hbo maxi briley. Watch them all. But i'm watching on. Hbo of They are them every sunday. So i've got through the first to obey the. That's there is h feel now to gotta on watched a little bit. Oh yeah it's a man. I think i'm fascinated at how public figure he is and how how insanely protected. He was through this through through through this kind of really wretched behavior that he I mean i you know. I have to finish watching it. But it's it's like you're it's heartbreaking it's heartbreaking and it's also like this door it's like the insight into what hollywood was like in the ninety sky makes you wonder what else was swept under the rug for the benefit of money on people's careers. Money power is is so fucked itself like my anytime. I've lord of the rings. It's column and the ring of power its power. It's like the most obvious. I've said this a million times but like power turns people into horrible monsters. I'm not or it. It shadows horrible monsters. Like one or the other but ballet commented. What you're saying is well documented. Yeah that that's and that's what's troubling. I wonder in your own case. How comfortable are you with your level of of fame. Because it's sort of like when i first started having like writers rooms like working on my idea it take. It took a lot of getting used to being like. This is a weird situation. You sort of becoming an other to your friends. I sure hope they didn't see it that way. But it's hard to not and so as an actor and a creator yourself you get picked from the pack. You know right a- pretty early on freaky geeky. did you ever go like. Oh god. i'm getting some power. This is a dangerous energy to work with. No but i also think I come from a pretty humbling level of Insecurity and depression. So that always gonna levels the playing field for me in those feelings. And i and but wouldn't that make it worse. I mean i'm insecure bouts of of of the blues. I don't wanna say depression. Because people me but i have both of those things and that's what was feeding it. It's like on one hand. You are the shiny guy. I remember being at south by south in the silicon valley posters were everywhere and i remember seeing those pictures of everywhere. I didn't know you. But there's kumail thomas. And i was like holy fuck so i feel like you're you're insecurity or your depression would only make it worse than everybody is sort of hoisting you up again for for the third or fourth time in a major thing in your career. But you're saying it kept you. From believing the hype. I mean for me. Yeah i think it affects everybody differently but I think i also had had the fortune of not not being too overwhelmed with it like a it was always kind of two steps for one step back and that helps me just to analyze things and and You know keep you in perspective. Yeah go ahead. What i was gonna say. It's like when you get off the elevator at the wrong floor. So weird you like. I was saying. I was gonna say that kind of based on you are on freaky geeky which i know everybody loves now but in reality you sort of had your break and then it went away very quickly. Is that what you mean. Like you had a step forward and then you had to back by sort of having to that flesh it but like we weren't binging. Dvd's of shows that show was cancelled. And now it's gone unless you taped it. Was that the feeling like now. You're sort of like. Oh i'm done. I mean i definitely. There was a period. Where i quit and i was trying to figure out what i was going to do. Because i didn't think this was working and and it was more looking back. I attribute it to my own lack of determination and Drive to to to figure out how to succeed in business. It just wasn't That i think that was a big part of it and also having a really shitty agent at the time. Who did believe in me. And didn't have the wherewithal or the common decency to tell me that. She wasn't going to work for me so i just had to figure it out over time that all the jobs i got were because of my connections and and my own resume speaking for itself and and In any case. I you know. Somehow i've i've bounced back from you know those kind of Pitfalls in this business. It's funny though to consider that zach woods to who. I'm friendly swedish boy. He is such a sweet boy. He refused to do the show. Because it's impolite to talk about yourself and that could just be a line. But like i really get the feeling that he means that that he would be too embarrassed to answer questions about himself because when you talk to him he just wants to hear about you. And he's just a giving sweden listener. He's a great great listener. But you and him you know are sort of i say this is an oddball myself short of eyeballs and i feel like at that time in show business. Don't let me put words in your mouth. I feel like you wouldn't let me do that. But it seems like this is before. Martin starr was a type or or zach. Woods was a type. I watch things now and i go. Oh that was his would sipe. They were looking for his act. Let's say you know what i mean. But at the time of freaks and geeks from what. I know the casting of that. They were really casting a wide net because they wanted to find people that like didn't look like they were on tv. Like like we had. Paul kevin arnold's best friend but like you were going even reeler and even more kind of crusty retainer with it. You know what i'm saying and i did that. Feel like a diagnosis. Oh we had one break. But now hollywood doesn't know what to do with people like me. Yeah but thank goodness. I'm so i'm so happy that i didn't get that. Nobody got their talents. And me and i was. You know valuable You know as an asset to anybody You know or anybody realized it really at that time because I don't know who who knows what could have happened. I feel like. I'm pretty perceptive. But you never know there is such good conman especially in this business luminous young age. I usually probably could have been convinced that I dunno it just would have been a different me. And i'm i'm happy the way that i've ended up. It's all been really fortunate to have you know Freaks and geeks party down ntsb And silicon valley is like these really beautiful experiences. That i've gone to have. Yeah you're absolutely right. I will get to it later but The the buddhism. I was very excited to talk to you about buddhism but have you heard it comes up so often on this podcast but you just did it in practice. Which is the perhaps story. I'll jog your memory. Your house burned down. What a tragedy. And he says perhaps and then in the rebel they find gold and they go. You found gold. What a what mitzvah and he goes. Perhaps and then he's audited by the irs and loses everything. Everything is perhaps so. I just said oh. My god navy of hollywood had known had been more open and a diverse in their casting. I i don't just mean in race. I mean in types of people that maybe you could have jumped from one thing together and i hear you saying thank god. That didn't happen because that's another type of prison or potentially a different reality that you wouldn't prefer to yours. Yeah i'm lucky to be living and coherent and aware And present in how. I live my life i'm I've learned a lot that i may not have learned. Had things gone a different way so I love brings us to where we are now. And right did you. He were good to see you and good to see you before we get your origin story. I was just going to ask you if you always wanted to be an actor audition for freaky geeky before this. Which i thought was actually really great. I say actually because you were so young and you kind of think it's online because it'll be like this funny awkward audition but you're getting these laughs. You know your lines. You're giving a delivery and anna take which is really really cool but before we get to that. Let me ask you questions. Maybe you haven't been asked you can pick. What have you ever almost died. Have you ever seen a ufo. Have you ever seen a ghost. The first two. Yes the second one now. We're all we're off to the races baby. You know me tell me a which one do you think is better. We'll we'll do a stand ups at which one is which Well you want to build up. Actually like ufo's were we now know they exist. The government has released information. That it's pretty clear. I i was driving home ten fifteen years ago. Maybe and i just and it was late at night And i hadn't had anything to drink or smoke or anything. So i was clear headed. I was just heading home. Know like eleven or twelve. And i was blocks away from maybe a mile away from home and i just saw a thing hover not far over the ground. Just kind of above the headlight above the electrical lines and above the trees. And it was. You know maybe hundred fifty hundred hundred feet up in the air and it just kind of floated with my clark for a little while and i i saw. I recognize what it was just. I couldn't explain in any way. And i still don't know what it was and i just kinda thought. Oh this is something on. Never tell anybody ever where were you. Where was oh. I was at the time living westwood in westwood in westwood california subject of los angeles. Well yeah it was like the heart of the city like it was just a neighborhood. That is wild. Did you go like cold. Was it like a terrifying feeling or were you. Just sort of you're martin star about it. You said this is crazy. This is really crazy. One will ever know about this. Tell anybody there's nobody was following. You know it was ahead of me. So technically i was following it but not by nature of me wanting to date if the road bed forked and it went to the right. You would not have followed it. Oh no it. I was not trying to hang out with them and i just kind of disappeared. It went up in disappeared But there's good a sorry martin one last question. What did it look like. It looked it was just a light. And and i remember the outline of a circle and that was kind of relieved there were it was like what it it almost felt like. I could've imagined it it felt so clearly Out of the textbook of what. A ufo yet looks like that. I probably imagined it. But i didn't. I know that i didn't Well after this. I'm going to tell no one that this either should you. We've had people come on the podcast. Tell you if oh stories. And they're like. I've told that story before. And the guy that told the story did a podcast. And then that part of the podcast just didn't record like stories like that like it just dropped from the recording which we go. I find super freaky. That didn't happen on. I wanted to be clear that didn't happen to our podcast but against told me that had happened to another person said secondhand. What was the book. We're going to recommend ethical communion and. Yeah just it's where we all get our image of the traditional grey alien alienist from the cover of communion. I didn't read it. I did watch fire in the sky over and over i was a ufo. Kid has very into ufo's so we're going to say it's just an incredible just like the vivid way that he paints. The story is incredible. There's a there's a moment. I mean like the book itself. One of the key experiences that they keep circling back to is when an A ufo hovered over their house in upstate new york or maybe it was in connecticut out in the wilderness And in their cabin. There's just this crazy. Light that comes in and floods the whole place and years later he still going to therapy dealing with this. And at some point he decides to ask the other people who were in the house of they saw and they all just go. Yeah and then no one had ever talked about it before he asks he asks his son and and what. They end the way that they asked his son. was so interesting to me and it wasn't. Did you see something strange it was. Did you have any weird dreams while you were at the cabin. Do you remember when we went there two years ago or whatever and he said oh i had these dreams of all these little doctors taking the away into their ship daylight and it like that wine stuck with me. i like. i still get goosebumps. Just thinking about that yeah It's so uncertain while i saw that movie. The fourth guide. Did you see the fourth kind. It's not no. It's not a great movie. But i thought it was really one of these. Ufo movies that supposedly real footage. But it's like before it's like blair witch style. But i went in thinking it was real and for like a month. I was terrified that i was going to be abducted and it was just like the most compelling terrifying story and then i did stand up about it and somebody is one of the great things about doing santa's like journaling in public and somebody was just like that's not real. It's like it's not a it's it's fake. Move and i was so happy but now communion is a true story. I mean it's not. It's not a piece of fiction. He's a fiction writer but he that's a nonfiction book that he wrote and he was abducted he tells stories about how he was abducted and lau. It's crazy it's crazy it's crazy. He also talks about how he doesn't particu. He didn't want to be a part of this community like he was. Yeah he didn't he didn't really want to share a story and and what followed is you know you know what was to be expected. I suppose which he became the shining light. He became a successful not not seen as crazy person. Who is telling the same story that people are often condemned for or Outcast yeah And it's also like you know now now. We know things that we didn't know before they've they've declassified documents where all the stuff that we had heard stories about are clearly drew i mean all of them but but a lot of stuff that you know and it's and i don't know who knows maybe all this is a distraction. It's all just like a big ruse to keep us from paying attention to what's really going on well that's interesting. I always thought that they dropped all that stuff. While we were the most distracted. We've ever been like that's been over the same way. Yeah i was like we could care. Less sits like page seven news. People didn't read it and i was like. How did you not hear the this happen. Yeah documents were you gonna say. I didn't read this specific documents. I read some stories about it but what was the big takeaway if you don't mind. This isn't really this can. This is now not ask jeeves. As martin won't do you remember something really blowing your mind. I know the fighter jets follow them. They see the three dots that travel at ninety degree angles. And all that stuff. But that's now just like confirm their stuff flying around that we don't know what it is. Yeah that's fucking crazy. Yeah i'd i obviously haven't released everything but the dave released enough so that it's obvious that You know assuming all this is true that that we're that we're not alone. Which i i don't feel one way or the other about it. Because to be honest. I feel like if i feel like you have to be aware that we can't be alone like just the law probability. Well there's a certain level of narcissism to be like we're the only planet it feels like we're gonna treat this planet it is like we're the only ones we just take in consume and concealment consume. And that's what's going to be the downfall of our civilisation and it's it's what i would consider bad. Religion is very narcissistic to. It's just like we're the center of the universe. Like i mean. Remember you'd be killed. If you said the earth revolved around the sun. You know that speaks to the human narcissism that can be very helpful. I mean if you want. Erect a monument or get a civilization going. It can be helpful to have a slightly narcissistic mythology for a time. You know what i'm saying. I don't know there's been some interesting articles about like if you really want to change the world you want large groups of people believing the same mythology whether or not it's like flawed or whatever but that's what really can move things forward in big ways i'm talking about. We're watching it happen right now. I mean the the drumpf is a of it. All is is crazy and that's just a lot of people you know they've the the there's a group of our group at our country that all believes in in certain things together and they've collected those people and just said hey let's all point our energy direction and that's working whereas the majority of us seemed to be coherent and president and and believe in democracy and want democracy to prevail but our thoughts and ideas are a little bit more scattered. That's that's executives. Say it's even though. In general we have the same feelings about most of these things like we should all just leave each other the fuck alone as long as we're not hurting anybody and let people believe and feel happy in their own way in their own body and respect other human beings and in turn that you know that comes from respecting yourself and i think that's fundamentally a big law in the in the other. Yeah jack there isn't a self respect aspect of it it's community it's community identity so you don't really have. Who am i. it's a who are we. If we succeed. I succeed right and and you think you're buying a ticket to the winning show the big show. Yes yeah like a golden man. You know what i mean. Like a golden man. That's like literally. I know i've had people in my family. I was talking to them about the cova test and they were like everybody that takes. That test is positive. And i was like i've taken that twelve times for work and i've always been negative and the wh what's that's not the interesting part. The interesting part is the millisecond. After i say that they just completely move for half yeah. It's unbelievable it really is what we do to ourselves. We lie to ourselves. I'm saying to myself we do. As part of being a human you build a belief system and you can sort of have a difficult time listening to the other side so we all do it but when you see it happening in front of you i also had a family member. Say they i. They had covid. And i was like. I think you've covered and they were like no. I have diarrhea. I have a cough. And i have a fever but i don't have any covid symptoms. That's a quote. And i was like i don't know here's another quote. I'm on a ventilator. Doctors keep saying every doctor just says sir you have your nose. Art symptoms of covert. I also remember the same prisons at a. It doesn't make any sense you can. You can go to a liquor store but you can't go to church and i. It just drove me crazy for weeks. After i was like the way they moralize the issues. Like you could say you can go to the grocery store but you can't go to a strip club like you could flip it. But you're seeing almost like christopher nolan memento style how we want a certain confirmation and then you surround yourself with that confirmation regardless of any any fact any polar ice cap melting or any. Ufo's that just doesn't fit in to so many of our world views so of course we're not going to read the. I know that's kind of a weird jump. But i'm just saying we have our reality and we're very protective of it and then a group reality is very very powerful. It can be. I mean these are the aspects. These are the egyptians. I i don't mean to put those groups down i'm just saying these are unified. They died we're here forever. That's civilization failed and we obviously are so funny. I was just reading in the bible. We always side with jesus. Were never questioning are we the romans like you're never going like are we the people killing the prophets. We always think we we have the hubris we end. The blind narcissistic believed that. We're the meek carpenter from from nazareth. We're like we're him as we do. You know what i'm saying like. We read history however we want and we go like of course. We're the good guys. We watch star wars and we never go. Waiter we the death star. We never ever question. Am i gonna. I mean that's the question. You should watch that movie. And say i'm ghalem. How do i become fratto. That's that's what you should be saying. Sorry to keep harping on lord of the rings. No i mean. I think you might be right. You might be going to resist doing the impression everybody can do. Go love pearl. How sound curl. I do them singing. Which is which is the key to mel run and for us. It's pressure you got it. It was a hard knock life. But i worked precious into it so i feel pretty good today. It was great. I can hang up today as a win for my ego. Okay you and then that's amazing And then you almost died twice. I think the next time it happens. it's done. i've had my to hear a third of a cat. Third time's a charm Yeah i guess. So i One time on my way to work while we were shooting party down. I had the misfortune of driving the speed limits. Or maybe a little bit over. Don't tell the police and on the freeway and on the other side of the the divider The cars going the other direction. There was There was a track that hadn't properly it was like one of those trucks that carries mirrors on its sides has like that kind of a frame shape. Got from the back because it holds Glass or mirror like straight up or you know a little tilted inwards toward the center and And a a piece of that wasn't secured properly. And i saw in the air. What looked like a newspaper. I have to assume that this is how it happened. Because i didn't see the truck. I'm just assuming that this is what it came off of because no in no other world with this thing have flown off of just a car Because it was too big but a mirror probably like four by four foot mirror flew into the air off a car going the other direction and it looked like a piece of newspaper flying in the air and then as it got closer i realized what it was not only did i start to break and it destroyed. My front end smash smash my windshield headed. Hit me hit me at us had been going a little bit faster. It clued have cut my head. I could have been a foot higher in the air when i hit And the way the angle at which it hit my my front bumper. It cut through my license plate like a knife to butter like my aluminum license plate. Which granted isn't that strong but it just sliced right through that and then the whole thing shattered. I would put my neck and a license plate. The license plate is more durable than a neck. You know maybe a little bit. Yeah just a little bit. Unless you're robocup so. I mean your point is valid is what i'm saying like sure. It's not that hard to cut through license plate but you are not a licensed play. This is a terrifying story. Getting to the phone but still like this thing is moving. At least probably when i hit a still even with air resistance and everything. It's probably going to thirty forty miles an hour flying in the air and then i'm going at least fifty five sixty eve after slowed down to hit this thing so would have you know that force would have been. Wow far more than my body could have handled And the right angle. It would slice through my windshield as opposed to just smashing which is what ended up happening. It hit my hit my bumper then shattered onto my hood of my car. Leaving all the dance. Like massive like cuts into the hood of my car and then my windshield was completely shattered. It looked like a snowstorm. The moment hit my windshield. Because if you're not familiar with how that shatterproof glass works it's two pieces of glass Sandwiching a piece of plastic. So that when it when the whole thing when something hits it it doesn't break apart. It doesn't disassemble all that shattered a sticks to the sheet of plastic basically and so all these little shards of glass. Come off of off of that as it breaks and so it was just like completely white in my car as all these tiny little. Shards of glass were everywhere on the inside. If i'm hearing you read a busted in on you yeah. It all came in on me on my lap. My the passenger seat was covered in what looked like snow. But it was a little pieces of glass and then and i like was in shock for a second and realize i needed that. My car was now smoking almost immediately. It had it had I think busted through and destroy my. Don't know some part of my engine My mic cooling system or something and And and then. I looked over to my right because i now couldn't see through my windshield and i needed. I knew i needed to get off for that reason. But i started to pull over to the right. I was a mile. Maybe from work is starting to look over my right shoulder. And i see two guys in a car maybe fifty feet behind me and i just see them both mouth at the same time holy shit as they like watched this happen. I look this way crazier that. I've really giving credit because i was really just internalizing everything. And i was just like i gotta get through this i have the bigger outweighs like did not die on the freeway while cars around me or go and sixty miles an hour and i catch see that well but somehow i drove all the way to work and And our transport department on party down was the best. I think it was our upn who just took care of it. I went into work like frazzled. And they were like holy shit like what. The fuck happened But i also had to go in and work and i went into work and i was like let me know when the guys are here to deal with my windshield. Because they were like we'll call. We'll call a company to deal with your windshield. Because i had no idea what to do. I'd never so there. Are these companies where you just call them. And they'll bring a new windshield out and replace it there Which didn't i didn't. It didn't make sense to me that that was the thing. But it's like oh of course of course because what's your windshields broken. You can't judge a place to get it right shield but you made it to work. You drove the car. And what episode were you shooting you remember. I do not remember. I just remember. I think we were at the what's it called The veteran's hall it's near hollywood and highland. It's near the hollywood bowl But i think it's called the veteran's hall But it's a it's a place. I've shot before we. They shot some Freaks and geeks there and we had our wrap party for recent weeks there. So you're really coming to this. Is your life sort of like. Did i die because this is very very Tour of my life here. That is wild. What was what was the other one. I can't believe you have to. Yeah this and they're equally as insane The other one was i was. I was on a family trip In florida where. My dad and i had moved when i was fourteen or fifteen and then i moved back when i was sixteen. We're back to california my mom But later years later in my like mid twenties. I went back to visit him and Other family out there and we all went on a c. Do triplet we all jumped on Little jetskis and wrote around And there was the bay that we were on the way it was shaped was. There's like this little channel that leads out to the water. And then right maybe a hundred yards away from where that channel exits into the water. There's an island that kind of covers your exit entrance into this channel seat at you like to really get out to the to the water so the gulf of mexico you have to go around the little island and so we did that. We we went around the this island which takes fifteen twenty minutes. And you're just you know. See doing around and really given cd's a A commercial here not intentionally. It's just what i call them but We were out there and then my cousin. Mike looks up in the sky and see. There's a storm coming from the mainland towards us so in order to get back in to safety get back through the channel and like be safe and not get stuck in the storm. It was a pretty big storm coming. We would have to leave immediately. Get back and so as we're going back as were driving our jetskis back. The swells of the ocean like the storm really starts to come in. We left too late and and the swells are without exaggeration. Ten feet high. So you would. We would hit the top of a swell in your on your jet ski. And then you would fall down the way that the water was moving and the no wake signs and the general signs of For aquatic vehicles and things that although signs disappeared under the water so these swells just like covered up all of that couldn't see any of the signs so we didn't really know where we were going Most of the time on the water was just hitting your face like completely Horizontal just beads of water hitting. Your face made it very difficult to drive and then An my dad's a cdu got kelp stuck in the motor because we were running in shallow water. You couldn't really tell And so he got out he like somehow made it to a somewhat safe area where he could stand in the water and the waves weren't so crazy. We all sat. There and i was watching lightning. Strike maybe a hundred yards away from us. My god massive. Just like shoots of lightning. And i was like. This is how we're going to doesn't here. We're all gonna die. We're all gonna get struck by lightning and he second and my cousin. Mike didn't look back. He he dipped out and he was gone down now. It's another herb. He knew he knew what he knew. What he he knew best how we should have approached this and so he just like he hopes that we were all following him. But then this happened and And so i was watching. My dad put his hand inside an engine to get killed out of the back of this. See do while. i'm also watching giant lightning bolts. Strike the water not far from us. Somehow we made it back like we just kinda kept truck it after that made it back but that was real intense. Did you go into like a high adrenaline. Slow motion sort of movies. Like if you were gonna shoot this would you do any of those effects to help us understand how you felt No i weirdly. I'm at peace with death as crazy as this might I i think. I feel pretty good about the life that i've lived and you know granted. I've made mistakes like anybody else. But i think. I've learned in grown from from from everything that's happened in my life. And i i feel okay. If i were to die contractor and salinity. You're in your twenties. Yeah i went. Skydiving pretty young. And i went bungee jumping as well pretty young. I just remember. Everybody screamed. And i was at peace like i think when it comes down to it like i still get a my my heart races and there's definitely adrenaline but there's part of me that just like just kind of click into awareness and it's maybe as present does i ever am as in those moments. I think you're in good company there. We we always talk about the guy that did the free solo. And i was like well. He's meditating like the those high adrenaline moments bring you into the intense capital eternal. Now you know. And that's what makes them so fun and that has to be what people are going after skydiving bungee jumping and if years sort of familiar with that place. I'm not surprised that it's calming to you. So you're not screaming as you're bungee jumping now yeah. I didn't have any of the experiences i've told you about. I didn't scream during crazy. looking back. there was no effect most of the time. I was probably perfectly quiet. Well so on brand. Do i have a brand. It's shutting up again. It's always a good move. Lots more so even even skydiving. How old were you when you do that. mid twenty s. I did that with a couple of friends. And my buddy ryan as he jumped out he just said we were all flying tandem. So there's some dudes hell this right in the back in the middle of your back which is awesome. Nothing cooler than that. That's me joking. That's called so ryan. I the guy and his back and and And just before he jumped out he just looked at both of us Any screamed see you in hell. Awesome way you could could jump as thing. I thought he was going to say. Don't do it you know. don't do this outside. I know. I've reverence that many times when i think about it all the time. Dane go had a bit where he's like. I go to the airport. If someone's reading the paper. And i wait for them to notice a. They're waiting for their flight and when they look at me. Whisper don't get on the plane and like what. I like about jokes like that. First of all. I don't think it's true. But second of all. I think it's so funny that the human animal is sort of deep down. There's a lot of superstition that people late and superstition that if someone does go it's in bridesmaids too. I had a dream. This plane crashed the woman next to kristen wig. Who's invested. del. Mar her writing partner. I forget her name. Forgive me and she goes. you're in it. You're in the dream like those sorts of things are so freaky to us that But there's i feel like even be it said. Don't jump off the plane you would have been like. How does he know. I would have done it. But but i mean. I also think those things are funny in story funny in in narrative but in real life and it's part of like what i really dislike about the way. I think you know this new. I think there's a trend in comedy. And i would put that in quotes if you could see me but I don't think it's funny when people just fuck with other people like there's kids who are like blowing on people's ears and then like pretending it's not them and like what's happening like throwing something up in the air that hit somebody and then they pretend that like someone in another aisle is throwing candy at them or something and it's just not you couldn't even better than you i. Just don't i don't find it. I think it's lazy. I think it's it's lazy. It's very mean spirited as left and also mean spirited but like you could do better than fisher you can you can you can do. That's not performance. Art is tricking people. Your oil sales. You're doing a better. You're a douche. I have a bit about this where it's about you make fun of me for being gullible and i'm like i don't understand somebody. This was real. They said i'm adopted. And i was like i didn't know and they said psych. You're so gullible and i was like. How does this work. You lied to me. I believe you. I'm the asshole that was the bit but i've never my whole life. Reality is so confusing and overwhelming to just have these mischievous. I don't even like giving it the word. Mr mischief sounds like fun going around. Yeah i yeah. That's why i out. I don't think danes bit as is true but there are people that do those things for real. And i've always hated that feeling though the putting your hand in warm water at the sleepover like what are you doing like why you try. You're trying to get some their pants. Like this is your entertainment. It's like lord of the flies we. We should be helping each other help me. Don't make me pants. It's very like mean girls i know. Oftentimes it's voice. I think that are making these says very mean boys point a new praise here mean boys indeed. Yeah absolutely so you always do you remember achieving and equanimity with death. I mean that seems pretty exceptional. I remember i cried for two weeks. I was fifteen. Yeah just i think it was close to turning sixty and i cried for two weeks when i realized just for my own like i had just an awareness A new awareness that when we when we die it's really quite final that all of these You know estimations or you know Stories fantasies about Any afterlife is wild. Some of it might be a valuable to the psyche. I for recognized that it wasn't true that in while energy may continue on and this is my own belief. You're welcome to believe what ever you want. But this is when i feel like i came to terms with death was recognizing for myself that when when i die. That's it like a like a plant. The dies in you know at the front yard of the you know where i grew up. That was it. That's the last time you saw that plant. And that that was at that point was dead and that fell from it would carry on and create new life and that is to be the energy of that plant continuing on The strawberry that had dropped the year before may re sprout and find. Those seeds may grow a new strawberry. Plant that you'll see in the coming years but that initial plan is gone and and that was valuable for me so i was just curious. It's a very note worthy time of your life. Two weeks of of morning was it triggered by something. I think part of it. I think i had a general sadness when i moved back. Really missed my dad in florida And i and i know that there were there was i cried quite a bit kind of dismissing having my dad around He was just. You know my best bud and Not to play therapist. But that's kind of death there. There was this person now. it's a change. Death is change and this is a change. Yes and that is true. That was a big change. Was the the death of relationship. That i had known in the way that i had known it. Prior for most of my life he just wasn't there and it was really difficult for me to cope with And i and that probably somehow triggered. But i just remember falling asleep Every night crying thinking about this thing about this revelation that i'd had about death And i think prior to that. I had i had cried going to sleep. Because i miss my damn. It's funny man. That's not funny a that's very sad but it's funny that this happened at fifteen we talk about male initiation sometimes on the show it comes up. I'm going to say something stupid. But in the movie finding nemo when nimmo leaves the ocean. And he's in the tank with these other fish and he's he's becoming. He's he's going on his journey his little hero's journey they do an initiation rite. And what did they rename him. Which is one of the big things of initiation. And they name him. It's one of the weird kind of dark disney things. They rename him bait and what it. Why name nemo shark bait. It's because he has to own his mortality. I know it sounds like maybe i'm grasping at straws. But i'm like that to me shows that around this age especially for men because people say this before but menstruation Does some of the work for women. I won't say all of the work but men need or some people believe that men need a certain type of humiliation meaning. A humbling meaning A recognition of your death being a recognition that you're not all powerful and eternal and you you had that happen right around the time that some tribes in some cultures would have done it too little martin for his good and then you're not screaming as you're bungee jumping and people would be like yeah. He was initiated he. He understands his permanence and he understands. The plant is gone like it seems very You did it to yourself had happened to you. It was like this sort of morbid or maybe dark gift. Does that make any sense to you. Yeah i definitely feel like it was a gift Looking back at the time. I you know a lot of difficult. Journeys are hard in. The moment proved to be so immensely valuable later in life. Yeah that's the. Joseph cambell cloudy says the the treasure you seek is in the cave. You fear to go and like so many of us. I obviously this isn't new ground. Were in denial of death. And i myself Like you have found a lot of value and we're getting to buddhism a little early but this is siddhartha leaving the temple and he sees the old person than he sees the dying person you know. She's the sick person and he was basically a good metaphor or maybe literally true. I'm not sure but a good metaphor for the psyche. You're in the palace your with your parents. You have everything you want but then something starts to wake you up and what wakes you up is the idea that everything is impermanent that everything is on fire that the cup is already broken. The plant is already dead. martin is already dead. I think you. And i might be some of the weird people in the world that i never feel more alive and try to do it every episode then when i remind guests that we're going to die that that we're floating in infinity and we're only here for a little time but i can feel it bring the heir to the skin on my arms kind of brings me into my body and it doesn't seem like a flaw in the system So you mentioned trying to remember who was. It was jason segel. I think was it. Yeah neil degrasse. He mentioned neil degrasse. Tyson is like i feasted on the fauna of this earth and it only seems appropriate. That when i i i will become the fodder for the earth to feast on and he sort of had this idea of a cyclical. But that's that's somebody that's dropped the narcissistic trip of like how can martin not be any mean but in awareness of of a bigger picture that you're not the center of the universe that you're that you are the universe and you're just playing the part of a part of the universe and when martin goes life continues this energy continues but the i grew up in the christian tradition. I now sort of a little bit of an ego trip to be like. Pete goes to the afterlife and pete gets he. He performs an a comedy club in every joke. Kills pretty much. What i would have believed but i was denying myself. Some of the round says he's like when you make peace with death. You free up energy that you were previously using to deny half and you can use that energy to actually enjoy life. Also in taoism he who find his way in the morning can gladly go in the evening. And i think that might be. The point of life is to kind of figure out how to balance were alive. But we won't always be instead of doing what so many people do which is like. I'm just not going to think about that. I'm not going to think about that. I'm not going to think about. Oh everybody that takes cova tested positive. I'm not gonna think know like i'm fine. This legacy will continue waving its flag forever. It's it's way with all fears. Really most fear breaks down to death That's why you know like stage fright. Once you recognize that it's okay 'cause i had pretty severe stage fright for a bit and i would perform the blue wristband and i would wrap and While while we performed. I would only things rhyme with corn husks. That's cheating yes. We were the core. How'd you know we were the cornhuskers. Forgive me with my day. we Every perform. I'd be afraid that i'd forget some part of the words that i had written and You know my Contribution to this group. And i once i you know i mean i still struggle with it but when i acknowledged that it doesn't matter than that it that the world isn't going to end if i make a mistake here and the audience won't even be that upset about like it's happened and we restarted a song before And it just. It isn't that it isn't as bad as you imagine it is and it's the same with death like death. It's a terrible thing it's It's actually the most at peace you'll ever be when when that occurs and i don't mean that in some sort of lake Suicidal kind of manner. I just what i mean by that is accepting it part of the journey. I think you're totally right. Allows you to enjoy the rest of the journey because you aren't focused on this terrible ending to life that otherwise is great. It's the worry about a terrible ending. And your depiction of it as terrible. That actually makes the journey less enjoyable. That's right and the experience less enjoyable and so you can be more present and happy in a in a life well lived if if you're not fearing the inevitable and if you're aware of the inevitable and we've said this on the show before i don't know if i cream would taste good if you knew you were attornal. I don't think it's the engine. Behind all of it. A good moment is imbued with more richness. Because you know that this is fleeting. I think actually can make technicolor. Not in a dark. Yeah i'm eating ice cream now. But i'm dead later but in like holy shit. This is what's happening now and you appreciate it. It was the last. I love frozen grapes And the last frozen grape. I savor a little bit more at the end of the bag. And that's feel like that's a little bit to your point. That's exactly my point and if you had an infinite bag of grapes. I don't think you'd give a shit about grapes. I think i what i'm saying. I think we're saying the same thing is it's not a flaw in the system. I might have more of a dynamic of this is this is for us like the universe's for us and there's like a consciousness behind it that that might be somewhere. We differ. i'm not sure. But i don't think it's a flaw that we're not just like eternally orgasm ing. I also don't think the point of life is to eternally orgasm. You mentioned mistakes that you've made. I also made mistakes. I've had heartbreaks. I've had depressions. I've had times where i was drinking too much. And all these weird things right and that was weird. That was the cave. I didn't want to go into. That's where these unlikely treasures found in in humiliation in being broken in being a frayed in being sad. Like you're talking about these two weeks but that was like that's like a transformative experience in your life two weeks of mourning and then how how many years i mean that's a pretty. That's a pretty sweet achievement. Yeah i was lucky to to go through that experience early somewhat early in life so that i could think help understand something that you know. Perhaps you never fully understand but it gave me a indian site in a window through which to see something that i perhaps would have avoided for a lot longer. It's really interesting. I wonder if you don't think this is funny. I've i've haven't done stage once but it's a little too dark. I don't know that might be the problem. But the because this is very short i go. You're afraid to die. You're afraid to die. My nan died. She couldn't even speak english. You can't do. What my nanna dan. That idea that no matter. How frail or old or new basically week you are. They have to do everybody. Everybody dies. think about historical figure. They did it. You're in great company. You're doing something that literally everyone does. And you're so scared. That's why i try to bring it into my nanna. You didn't laugh which is fine but thanks sorry. I just felt that. I didn't really have anybody. I called all my grandparents died. It's fake nanna. But but that. I i to me and she died. Just i don't know how to feel anymore but actually take in that. I was like everybody. Everybody does it. So it's okay like it's not just you a. Why does martin have to everybody's doing it. Everybody's still at everybody's doing come on everybody's doing cow. Everybody's doing it. i mean it it. It gives me a little bit of comfort. Talk about that. Everybody doesn't the most. I don't know the biggest cowards in the world they also they traversed that huge leap and like you you can find a little bit more brave bravery than the biggest coward in the world. Who knows. I don't know. Maybe i'm talking to my out my ass. I was curious watching your key. Geeky edition did that kid. No he wanted to be an actor. How old were you when you audition for freaky. I i grew up in. La and my mom is an actress. And i think Finding a finding an acting class that i went to in culver city led by kevin. Mcdermott of called centerstage. La i i. That's what i really found my Drive and passion for For for acting and and that was like it was improv and character character development and scene study. It just kind of covered the gamut and and especially with improv. I really enjoyed comedy and drama. Just connecting the connection part of it is just so fun like finding something in a relationship in a moment. That's just honest and real and and putting yourself in a in a it was therapy for me. It was it was just pure therapy. And and that's what i knew. I wanted to do this. But i don't think and i i don't think then or now. Do i have any sort of expectation that the only goals that i generally have are not business oriented their creatively motivated. And it's mostly to do things i haven't done before i enjoy I enjoyed reaching outside my comfort zone to to find new therapy. Which is always kind of what improv was is when you really let yourself go. And you're just freefalling. He finds something unique that that's the most enjoyable experiment in life. It's funny the again. It's not funny but connection. I was at somebody's. I was listening to podcasts. On being krista tippett's podcast and somebody was talking about how isolation is worse than heart disease. It's worse than smoking. it's worse than drinking. It's worse than obesity. As as a killer like literally when we talk about the universe as one thing i i like to really try and think of as this as as one thing i say it almost every episode but alan watts said you didn't come into the world you came out of the world kind of like those strawberries you were saying. Meaning you didn't like put a quarter in the machine like show up in the video game like you are a product of an undulating creation and What was i saying. Oh so like finding relationship is like one of the most healthy things we can do. And i find acting. I've heard you talk about being on the set being on the silicon valley said being on. I have to think party down was the same. Like just like a like a group like some friends and you share a passion and then i don't. This is a leading question. But like i have to thank you. Achieve a certain degree of presence playing seen over and over and really almost holding your breath looking at your partner. You've seen partner to see if there's something new they're giving you to respond to is like bungee jumping is like meditating. Is something that hacks us into again. The eternal now is d. Feel that way Yes what if you're gonna. It's i mean sure if that's what you wanna believe. I think i think the the the best set. I've yet the best experience working i've had and freaks and geeks was amazing and that really set the bar very high In so many ways but there was a collaborative nature to party down. That really broke down a lot of the kind of negative tropes and comedy the competition. And the you know. I think stand up is a Is where a lot of well. It's i think it's where a lot of the negative aspects of comedy really thrived because because there is a lot of ego and it is about individual. It isn't about group. Success and with improv. It is very much use succeed on the other on the shoulders of your fellow improvisers period. If you cannot succeed without them so thinking that you are better than is only going to cause you all to fail And and Hardy down We had so much fun and there was so much There was such a wonderful nature of contribution and growth in what we were doing that everything. We stepped into every seen every episode every moment we just wanted to make it better and And everyone is so talented in that group that it was just. You didn't wanna leave. Set like stopped working. And you just stick around because that was the most fun place even if you're just like hey what if he did this like this is just a funny idea. I don't know maybe it'll maybe it'll mean something to you maybe won't bun but to have geniuses working around you throwing out little tidbits that you get to now play with whether it's a direct you know action or moment or dialogue for you or if it's just something they're doing that you get to witness It's such a fun. That was that was one of the best you sets that i've ever been on an in silicon valley also incredible. I'm in. i'm in that that group of of men and women are so talented. So i'm not surprised that you had that level report a friend of mine rates on ted lasso and she was telling me that like it's the only staff That when they're done they just keep hanging out. I was like well. You can tell you. Watch that show and you're like there's a. There's a homey warmth to it where you say. Your goals aren't financially driven. I mean this is posted on my computer says because joy matters. I'm trying to make choices that are for joy my joy for other people's joy and not just almost every time i pick something i say like i don't wanna make this just because it's something we can make. I wanna make it. Because it's something i have to make like. It's literally getting out of bad. Like i really wanna see this through in do it but like you can feel that I i watched more of party down than i did. A silicon but it was like in that show. It felt like a team. It felt like a bunch of people making the other people look really good and we all know each one of you when you're let off the leash. I'm thinking of jane lynch in knocked up for example you can let jane lynch off deletion. Just not the leash. You know what i'm saying. You can let her go wild in forty year old virgin. I'm sorry forty year old. She's so great a match and so on. So these are real annihilated. These are real like flame thrower. Take down the whole field of corn kind of people and they're they are making adam scott. Look good as there smoking pot and like picking their moments so that really showed in that show and is a really important show for people like me that moved to la and like wanted to know what the hustle was like did. Did you feel that it spoke to your experience. I you're you've mentioned the word drive a couple of times. It's very interesting to me how you navigated show business in these early stages of your career and trying to balance on a ski do. I'm okay to die with this business. That can be very aggressive. Like what what. What in that area interests you I mean i think the business disobey is disappointing. A whole thing just because it's not it's not my thing i think i put that from the beginning. I decided that wasn't going to be a focal point. And i think i've gotten better at acknowledging it and embracing it as part of this journey but It'll always be the least important aspect of this to me And when you say that you don't just mean oh sorry go ahead s. something earlier i when when i was given the script for party down it said martin star type which didn't make sense to me either in the way that i read it and maybe i just read that part differently than than they had. 'cause i hadn't done a part like that before like that was an a type of character. That was an archetype that had in any way stepped foot into and so You know to that was so fun for me but that was i. I guess i had achieved something at that point. That people were like i. This is the guy. I want to be in this thing. But but we don't think we can get him like that was a that was their attitude. I i guess because they never reached out to me and my agent was like. Hey i read the script and says your name in it But they didn't reach out and so Do you like it. We're going to should we pursue this and And i read it. And i was like. Yeah this is great and lizzy was already attached and I think i. I knew adam a little bit But obviously that cast is incredible That's so funny. Usually after you've heard this that if it says pete holmes type and i read for it you don't get it. I mean that's the cliche i've heard is like they think they want you but then when they see you do it so the fact that you got it still speaks is still Is still a great thing. Because it's not a guarantee. Yeah i don't think. I had auditioned than but yes i i if if they had let me audition convince them otherwise luckily and they just Lucky for me But no it's it's it's it's fortunate because it was for me. It was getting to work with so many incredibly talented people in every department but also to get to do something that i hadn't really done before and explore new world and explore new character That was really fun. I was just. I'm afraid maybe gotten this before. It is interesting that freaks geeks and party down to me. The way that i consume them was all after the fact like it was like Party down got like a a wider. Release i got on dvd or something. So you have these shows that sort of like i i. Don't i can't speak to their popularity when they were in the air but they definitely got more popular years later. So is that is that true. I mean did you see like unfolding like. Hey you're the guy from freaks and geeks even those ten years later. I mean part precincts eggs had. It took a little while but we are. I think judd and paul knew how to cultivate the fan base to like keep. Keep them energized. 'cause they really tried to rally to get the show on for another season or two You know after we had been cancelled and And there were a lot of fans out there that were even willing to drive to los angeles for you know to meet us and hang out and we did that. I think five years later or ten years later and end. I didn't realize the kind of popularity that we have. But we did I think we went from nbc to like abc family or something and then to net flix. And we've kind of bounced around and so new. A new audience found each time And and you know they get They put a little some sort of advertising behind that and when the dvd's came out. That was another resurgence. But there are these. Like reminder is where people go. Oh that's right. This show was gray. I'm gonna watch it again. And i'll pass it on to someone else so that the the appreciation for just spreads But most of all. I just feel really fortunate to have been a part of things like like freaks and geeks and party down that are looking back still highly regarded and still really appreciated by viewers. Because they have to connect with. I think the the heart that went into making it is felt through every frame of of each of those shows. and you you know. Even though there's a lot of like heart wrenching difficult stories to watch and both of them they're like they're so real and authentic and and human. Yeah and that's that's yeah. I really related to the best. Comedy comes from totally well lizzy character in a marriage that she likes shouldn't be and like she got married too young. I was watching mad when i was married. Too young it's like almost like hard to look at. But it was so good. And now when i watch it later. It's even richer to me. Would you tell me a little bit about that icon seen. I always think that you acted out. Judd's life knowing judd. I that he would come home. Make grilled cheese watch tv. And the i think earmark of of judd as a person is jet show of course Jet appetite comparable. He's a he's a fan of comedy. Like still i try to talk shit with jetta million times and so i'd start with some show that i really didn't like and i just want to sit on it and he'd always be like i like to those like it always see what was good about it. 'cause still kind of is that kid so would you tell me a little bit about the day that you shot that scene. I mean you're laughing for those of you. That don't know it's a scene freaks and geeks where your character comes. Home alone makes grilled cheese and then watches garry shandling on tv. And you're dying laughing. You can't watch it without dying laughing because your laughter so contagious. But i'm like. I've been on those sets where you have to cry. A fake laugh seems just as hard to me to do with that convincingly i mean. I like to think that i was in touch enough to to be able to do that. If i had had to without the help that they gave me i unfortunately i forget his name but one of the writers judd had come in and just do all of his dirtiest jokes wasn't event. I think some of garry shandling stuff. They'd played a little bit to me but it wasn't. It didn't strike a chord with me. The way that just some guy off camera screaming profanities to a fifteen year old kid so well and it was just a lot of like the grossest like if there was a recording which i guess they're probably is after they were recording audio So you know He was just off camera just shouting the dirtiest jokes and that was it and and i certainly leaned into it but i do remember if being an easy day to go to work. All i had to do was laugh. When i wanted to laugh but it so i thought was have you watched. Have you watched it as a grownup. It's so good. I don't watch a lot of Watch i don't really care. It doesn't doesn't even now. It's not the most valuable thing. I can do with my time as watch something that said i think as a as a whole i do appreciate a lot of the things that i've gotten a lot better at not being so critical of of myself But nothing's ever perfect. I'm i've grown to be more and more okay with that but it is kind of a hard thing because i there is You know there's a sense of finality as a as a as an artist is ever growing. Yeah something something that. I watched them as like. Oh that's how. I would have done that then in then accent but i think different person and different artists. Now i think what makes it different in what made me ask is because you're so young it's it is a different person united. Mean like you could watch it so impartially because it's like it's like home video footage. It happened to be on tv but it looks like this snapshot of this really great day in your youth. I think that's what made me thinks. I don't normally ask people if they watch their stuff. But that scene in particular Is special to me. Let's let's get to the the buddhism of it all just. Because i love talking about that stuff and then we'll get you out of here How did you come across buddhism. I was raised. I was raised buddhist owen parents. Yeah both my parents. chose to get into buddhism and found buddhism before i was. How did they form Well it was in in los angeles. They both lived in los angeles and in in los angeles. It was especially prevalent and You could also say a restive in the in the manner in which they proselytized. I think every religion was pretty aggressive and a lot of them still are pretty aggressive but You know they would not just just Just like aggressively getting people. They're just like hey talking to people on the street outside of a seven eleven getting getting as many people connected with this thing and it was for the right reasons but they would it. Would i've heard stories about like in the eighties. How to pull up in a minivan and like you know they would. Just come and get you like not. They wouldn't kidnap you but they would come to your house like before the meeting they had told you about and they kind of make sure that you went if you wanted to go. Wow and they would come to be like you wanted to go to this meeting like this is for your own well being in your own happiness. Like if if there's something you care about you can just come. We've got an aunt outside. Now they will Okay okay i'll go. I'll go to the meeting. And well like fill up the van on their way to the meeting So i don't know if those are stories that actually relate to my parents and how they found it but They got very into it and they were both I i my parents divorced when i was four They were both still very heavy into buddhism throughout my childhood so they were both just practicing different homes and it was the one constant no matter where i was. You know staying whether i was at my mom's or my death and it was a big part of both of their lives and so buddhism became the the You know that was the tie that bound those two people in my life in in a big way and it was a great through line to have for a young kid The philosophy behind buddhism is very. It's a it's a tuned to a lot of other religions living there's a lot of similarity most religion It's just the way that things have shifted over time in the way that people have manipulated those philosophies their benefit. It's very beautifully put. Yeah that's beautiful and it is a powerful message. Often the cliche couple of divorces. One of them is going to abandon the faith that the family had or the practice of the family but the fact that your parents both continued their their path. Or whatever you wanna say had to have a profound effect on you like oh. It's not just a clan identity. It's not just a tribal. it's a flag. We fly on her house. So you know what holidays we celebrate. It was something that actually was benefiting. Them that's powerful. I mean especially through a divorce. When do you need to meditate more like a self emptying or when you need to lean into life is suffering. I know that's misinterpreted but life is desire and to to learn non-resistance and to go with the flow when your family's falling apart. That's when a philosophy like buddhism christianity. I remember somebody at my church when i got divorced He said to me. It was actually quite beautiful. He was like we're not good with pain. Lets you just said it to me. It was like he was sort of apologizing but other practices buddhism in particular seems to have like this to nest to it like this is happening. This is what's happening. And i need to flow with it so that that had to be really beautiful. Did you go to temple. Did you go to like group. Meditations or was it like a localized in the home. Sort of thing. both We do district meetings which were up in someone's home usually And then once a year. Maybe you'd have like a bigger a bigger meeting with kind of a much larger group. But they're also other kinds of meetings that happened at the local community centers Depending on where we lived at that time and as they developed new ones Did they have. Oh sorry. there's one. The one on fairfax olympic. Now i'm called the friendship center And that was kind of newer in in Like that happened when i was like sixty and fifteen sixty did. They have a specific teacher. Or i don't wanna say guru but they have a lineage that they were part of he. Yeah i mean. I it's So it's soka gakkai which means value creation society and it's the the sgi which was formerly of a priesthood. Known as the the neutron shoshu of america. And i say they. We kind of split off the sgi split off because there was a pretty severe differentiation in Philosophy in in thought in connection to the teachings themselves which in the priesthood their specific They chose to acknowledge the priests as more powerful than the lay practitioners and So the gakkai in the growing up in the sti there was a very profound awareness that we're all equal and they were all capable of Achieving buddha hood in this lifetime which there are a lot of different Sects of buddhism because shock muni buddha traveled the world and shared his teachings as he went his teachings grew as he got older and more so they grew as people's awareness grew because there was a time where the value of human life was very different and specifically between men and women as as an example. That wasn't an equal that was commonly accepted and inaccurately accepted as the obviously As as one being valued over the other and in a society where there's that big a jump between men and women. How can you really teach that all people everywhere on this planet are all capable of such great things Such positive thanks and so as he you know. His teachings grew his philosophy so he couldn't start at where he finished. He had to slowly teach people the direction that he was heading so they could get on board As he would have been. You know the in the salem witch trials but in a different version of them For having such extreme theories about life And so the the lotus sutra. Which is i think. The second to last the last suit or that he wrote that is what the sgi. That's what the foundation of the Buddhism that i grew up in That's what it's come founded in that book cool I love yes. I love those suture stories. I wonder if you have any i. There was some monk that read the diamond sutra. It didn't make any sense. And then he went to see this teacher. Who's going to teach it to him. And he turned off all the lights and as he led a candle. It's one of those spontaneous enlightenment stories where he became enlightened and then he went out he'd spent his entire life writing about the diamond sutra and he went to the street and he burned all his writings. I love those stories. Because there's something familiar. It sounds like your peace with death. There's something about like. What am i doing putting up fence posts and critiques and commentaries when it's as simple as natural as a candle flame it. You're enlightened buddha nature. It's who you are. It's being unveiled but when you whether or not that story is literally true. I find it to be a powerful metaphor that it couldn't be any closer you know. They're all those stories that you're you're begging for change but you're sitting on a box and the boxes filled with gold like i love those little things but those are the ones i know. Are there any stories that kind of let you up about buddhism or the that. come to mind i honestly. It's been so long since i've really dug into it. I haven't practiced as much In the last few years But i i. It's i think i have the great fortune of growing up in a and so always it's always a part of my philosophy in the way that i think in the way that i grow and it's always a foundational aspect of who i am with. I i feel so fortunate in Because i was always encouraged to to make it my own. Which i don't think is a general vibe of religion. Religion is very get onboard with what we're teaching this is. What's real that's all bullshit now And in buddhism one of the things that they teaches Reincarnation and it never made sense to me and it still. Doesn't it make sense to me in a in a new way. Now it like there are aspects of it that i can Hold onto but as a whole. It isn't the way that it's described and it was described in my development When i was younger reading about these things going to study meetings and talking to people i was never pushed into believing something. That didn't make sense to me. I was always. I was always urged to keep asking questions. And and seeking. What made sense to me. And i and i love so deeply that that i was given that opportunity. It's beautiful to figure out for myself and it doesn't make to me. I'm i'm okay. I'm still buddhist And i and i you know at my core and i don't believe it. I don't thoroughly believe in reincarnation the way that it's described Through buddhism as. I'm aware of i. You reminded me of another one Which is it. I think it applies to what you're saying. I'm not just throwing out a random thing. But the the great sermon that buddha gave was holding up a flower and that sounds very similar to the free range buddhism that you were given which i think is so beautiful. I kind of think. That's the only way to do. It is to respect your awareness. Your i would say god given divine spark or whatever but your own authority for your own experience and your own conversion or whatever you wanna call it but holding up a flower and like that to sermon and the story goes only one of the monks started weeping and understood what he was saying but in my you know what i can tell as. He's only and saying that anything exists that a flour exists is an insane mystery and that is the unknowing that we should dwell in that we should be trying to unlearn And get into that more the beginner's mind that place of i don't have this is right and this is bullshit but be perpetually in the flow of wonder and and i'm just going to say unknowing again i don't have a synonym for unknowing. That's that's where that's where the the mystery can touch you. It's harder when you say the mystery has to look like this for it to get to you. Wouldn't you agree if you say well. I was told the tree incarnation. That doesn't feel right to me. But i'm going to hold onto it but when you can stand before it sort of naked as it were. I feel like it has a better chance of latching onto you and working with you is. Is meditation part of your practice. Yeah i grew up chanting whoring geico. And if you've ever seen What's love got to do with it. The tina tina turner Move ahead It's about buddhism in the specific Sect of buddhism that i was raised in is a part of that she practices the same Form of bosom. And so it's it's actually kind of like a weird little beginners course on buddhism watching that movie But you know buddhism and chanting And the people that she found through buddhism helped give her strength to leave to be to to see her own potential. And i'm not trying to speak for deterred or in any way. I'm just reciting what i watched in that movie. But you know the the. I think something that's missing and especially in our culture now is True strength and courage of of of of the individual and the growth of the individual Dislike rupe identity is Is i think really sweeping and had some the tribal brain. It's not the is not us at our at our greatest potential yeah in most cases yeah no an empowerment and you could say liberation to tina turner again. We're just playing with an idea realizing that she is connected to the same source of life and that's true power and everything else. A marriage a job a society a country a planet. These are all stories and that. That's that's where i could see somebody learning. hey. I don't have to stay in an abusive relationship because i i can now love myself in a new way. Yeah as a piece of it all. It's it's a beautiful thing. I i think Of what i know of other religions which i don't know much i haven't read the bible. I know tiny pieces of taoism and and but i call on christianity judaism. I'm not terribly familiar with but it does. I do feel lucky. The more i hear stories of people's experiences in other religions of about how three and and Uncontrolled Caged the philosophy is in buddhism. And how free really are to explore. Because a 'cause that isn't always that doesn't feel like it's always the case unfortunately and And there still is the depth of history. It's not like a someone just one day woke up was like here's an idea. We're just going to be free like there. There is A wealth of Information to back up the value of of of this way of thinking in this philosophy. It isn't and it is. It is very parallel to so many other religions in theory in in its in its foundation. Nothing excites me. More when i find jesus saying something buddha said or vice versa like it's i was raised to think a we have the market cornered and i to address what you're saying when you're in a religion. It's really hard to be free. But in my experience when you break out of religion and then you realize again. Joseph campbell says you should study other religions. because then it'll help you see your own religion with new is like you'll actually be. You'll get a crack at actually understanding your own faith and in my experience it was important to leave the church to be able to actually find the value in it. But because that's where you get out of the tribalism and the and the identity building aspect of religion which is kind of the first step in the door is like. Hey we'll help tell you who you are but just like a candle being lit and you burning all of your writings it ends up being way freak gear and spacious and actually kind of exhilarating. I was gonna say scary but it can be exhilarating to taste the void or the one or whatever you want to say. Have you had experience or taste the rainbow which is a sponsor go to skittles dot com slash weird getting any experiences. Meditating if he ever left your body. Have you ever had weird hallucinations or anything like that now. Only on drugs have you taken psychedelics. I did i've i've to that end of Deny wants to go a few times a well. How was that for you. I couldn't be more interested. That was really great. That was you know i didn't i. I haven't had the the stereo typical Trump Journey i haven't had what most people talk about. Which is someone you of a friend of families living or or deceased who kind of comes and guides you have having And it's not always someone that you know necessarily but someone kind of coming and taking your hand taking you on a journey and showing you what you need to see. I haven't had that experience yet but There was one particular time i've done four times and One of the times was in An especially intense experience in a great way. And i kind of allowed myself to relieve A burden that. I'd helped for a burden that i had held that i didn't really know. Was there it was. It is therapy And it was a beautiful experience to have them i. This isn't that type of gas. And if you end up saying something you don't want in. You have weeks to tell me that it out but can you give me. A sense of the flavor of the regret was something you had done out of yesterday. You know. it was My father passed away six years ago and the year. Once i found out that he had a ls. I spend as much time as i could with him in florida Which was which is a lot of time i got. I got to spend a lot of great time with him. But there were years leading up to that where i i didn't put in any effort really to go out to florida on see him. I'd see him once a year. Maybe or Once every couple of years as you know but but it didn't take away from how much felt connected to him. I just didn't reach out enough and show him enough and benefit myself from our relationship. Because you know. I still feel Is one of the best friends and mentors and fathers like nyc is definitely. I feel very grateful to have had him in my life for the time that i did get to have them but i i i think i felt regret about not seeing more and and i just got to release that 'cause it was my own negative energy that i was holding onto that he wasn't upset with me and i don't need to be upset with myself. The the past is something. I can't control but i have now learned that lesson and when it came down to it I spend as much time as i possibly could with him and got so much out of it. And i know you know. He appreciated me being there and and Just being present in showing love him. You know. I mean i. I really fulfilled the circle. You know he wiped my ass coming into this world than i wiped his ass going out of it quite literally Because he couldn't really do that for himself and It made me understand how parents can change their baby's diapers and deal with the smell. The leg horrible smell of shit inches from their face. 'cause i like i was dry even taking been fulls of a poop from the toilet that was in the living room. The like just like Travel toilet or whatever this little seat with been under and taking that to to flush In the in the toilet 'cause he couldn't really make the walk into the bathroom given how it'll strengthen his legs and his whole body But i i'll tell you i. I did every moment of that with love. And i'm so appreciative that i got to have that experience. I'm not surprised yeah. I'm not surprised. That's really beautiful. Yeah i'm so glad you got that time. I am too i. I learned so much about him. And i've learned so much about it's i i think this the journey since him leaving this You know since his body Leaving in the manner that does when someone passes away My coping with it has been made a lot easier having had that time with him Because i i really got a reminder before he left to how how he never will be gone. How i hold onto him every day and in the actions that i take in the way that i further the growth that he was That that he was was Putting himself through and using buddhism as a catalyst i I get to further. You know his experiment with becoming a better man Now i mean you know the stuff that you were. You know that that's a mistake. Most of the mistakes that i think back and i go have made mistakes in my life. It's usually based on how they might have affected other people as opposed to the mistakes that i've made that Where you know. Yeah i yeah. I don't know if that one eliah. This one affected you this one affect you but it seemed like the plant. The iowa ska wanted to come in and and first of all maybe. It's validate that you had a regret. Something that you did that was affecting you. And saying that's okay and i think we all need to learn that it's like i. I've heard it say about like anger towards another person is like drinking poison and hoping that they'll die in the same way that like self flagellating that They said that right flat. Flagellating is whipping. We don't want to save fighting. That sort of whipping about you. You know what i mean. It was it. was you carrying on something. That was what it was what it was. And i'm not saying that in the dismissive way but you were continuing to allow the story to be this one. That wasn't serving. You and i know you know this but your your father wouldn't have wanted that and the plant was telling you you don't want that and that's the candle in the darkness. What the fuck it might do. Like what am i doing. We have this like almost kinky desire. I mean subconsciously to really continually whisper in our ear european shit and and. I'm glad you got that help me too. Yeah i i think a lot of it actually tends to be power power. Power teaches people to be inferior. People in power want that power to be sustained and that works in the ways that religion has been transformed over the years in many ways. In many places not always. But certainly you know. The human condition plays a part in the how how things develop the no matter how pure its inception was You know things when people have power develops into something different and that may not always be the best version of it But you know we get to look back. And i don't know if this is a new experiment. You and i talking these things out as new experiment in the human. Yeah that's right that's right and it often and almost always involves all these things that we wish had happened differently or didn't happen So that's really beautiful. That's that's good. Alchemy and its good acceptance i meaning. You're not spiritually bypassing. You're driving through it. Which is really powerful. Do you think your dad's practice was helpful to him as he was second and towards the end yeah he he he He gave so much especially at the end. But i think he gave so much as life When he kind of check what. We found a new list of priorities. Really in his life. I think he had started off with As we all do he developed into someone who really wanted to care and helped develop the next generation and you know That was hugely present in the way that he went out because he was constantly just giving things in any way that he could physically books pieces of information a dialogue He was constantly chanting under his breath. Because grieving unfortunately as thing that becomes difficult in the way that the the lungs are affected by ls but he you know fought so hard to the bitter end until he kind of Went a little mad when the that's a whole other story but that's still even very funny that he i was. I gone away to work on a movie. He he kind of. He kept telling me that. I couldn't He don't you know he. He loved me and i wanted to be there for him but i knew that he also didn't want me to give up opportunities. That would make me happy or things that i would regret and so there was one movie that i had decided if this comes together. I'll go do this but that was kind of best. Otherwise job wise. I was there with my dad. That was it And i think you know part part of that time was taken up with one of the seasons of silicon valley. But you know we were nominated for an emmy that you're thinking i was with him watching it on on the screen 'cause none of that maybe there's Compared to human life and and to be honest the only things that are valuable about those moments are that i would get to share them with these wonderful friends that i had been I lost my train of thought. You were talking a little bit about how he went mad. I don't know if that was. I was just going to tell you a funny story. He started to think got it. Just like part of me feels like oh maybe wasn't losing his mind and he was just totally with it. An this'll be funny way. Wait till they wait till the here that And he just kept saying he like he would grab my brother. I wasn't. I wasn't around for so he would grab my my brother who was there And he would tell him my brother paul and it would tell him Don't let them take my bag and he'd point to his he had a colostomy bag in. It said they're trying to steal my back. A bag of shit like literal bag of his pants at chip at he would just say they're trying to steal his shit just not i was so honey i mean it seems to me. There's a good chance that that's a very funny for somebody out at who's giving away everything and that's what we're doing is we're dying. You're giving it all away so this seems like somebody who understood that and here take my take my time. Take my conversation take possessions and then at the end. He's like don't let them take my shed. That sounds like shit. If the only thing i'm keeping oh i love that so much as a dad. This is a selfish question. But i'm just i'm as you're speaking. I'm like boy. I wish my. I hope that my daughter feels this way about me when you say mentor in friend and somebody that you like can you can geel that. Like what was it that your dad did was it as simple as he saw you as an equal that he gave he space. Wh what was it about his style with you as a parent. I think one of the most important things in any relationship is something that he exhibited very well oftentimes and failed at in many other times. But when you when you broach the topic and you need to listen. He would listen. He was always you as much as human as much as he was humanly capable. He was a great listener. And that spreads to everything. And you know something you just touched on definitely is part of that Which is when you listen with respect. Everyone is your equal so and you can learn from everyone. I started doing jujitsu at the beginning of last year That's not the end of that story. I'm not bragging left At at the beginning of twenty. Nineteen i started doing jitsu in the. I took a couple personal classes from cabrini. A- is his name and he's a world world renowned jujitsu instructor and He's incredibly good at beating at beating people at in this craft of of You know human chess. And i started learning with him and immediately kept he kept saying the same sentence over and over again really stuck with me how he kept saying like i would say. I'm an idiot. Like i don't know how to do this or that. Or you know we'd be in the middle and we'd just acknowledge how. I made a mistake here. There he'd say so much like i to this as someone who has done this for twenty years but you. This is your day day. Three of of learning jujitsu. I'm learning from you. I was like oh that that's it like that is what listening truly is is stepping into every moment humble so so that you can hear what someone else is saying and to that end. I remember being a kid and there. I don't even remember what it was. We were talking about but he just asked me a question. Specifically were sitting in the car and just asked me a question about what i thought i think about school about something that was affecting my life and i never get asked. What like. it's just do your homework. Do this do that and get good grades. Like these are the important things but never like what i think about the teacher or the schooling system or what and i just remember him asking me a question and really listening to the answer like oh okay it. It gave me a sense of of worth. that adults. don't often give children and that stuck with me. That really that moment carried over for years and years and years until now truly powerful that Technique han said compassionate. Listening is the the. I'm hyping it up a little bit. But he basically said as the solution to war and to and to strife is like if both sides could actually put their agendas down and just look each other in the eye and compassionately. Listen what is it like to be someone trying to get over the mexican border into america. Can we talk. Can we listen. And i mean you you said it. It doesn't need the old pity commentary. That was beautiful while martin. This was unbelievable. I really enjoyed this. I really did i. We ended because we do get a little deeper. Ask one question at the end. Which is if you could remember a time in your life that you laughed very very hard. I like to give a few prompts. Maybe somebody fell down. Maybe you were stone. Maybe maybe i'll tell you a story about my dad. If that's okay. I would love it. I was hoping it would be Well i mean he had a sense of humor till till the end. Thank goodness i it. It It's one of the things that i have the fortune of carrying on his legacy But he he was he was sitting he was sitting at. He was sitting in the living room on that toilet. I'd i'd mentioned earlier the leg portable toilet and it's just a bedpan under a seat and his just sitting on the toilet and i'm standing you know a little ways away not to avoid the smell In that moment. I just happened to be over there and he just. He looked back at me as he was popping a squat on this toilet and he just said this is why i don't get invited to parties anymore always was president And giving you know what i mean. The beautiful thing about a joke is that it requires a certain degree of empathy. Meaning there's martin. He's watching his hero. His mentor mapping in a chair. I'm going to address it. I'm going to break the tension. I'm going to invite him in instead of looking away. Let's look at it and instead of feeling fear and dread laugh and it's just a beautiful. It's a banquet you're inviting. someone did the banquet. That's what humor can be And that's a beautiful example of that. Well martin i really. I've i've always enjoyed when i run into you and i'm so glad that you I'm going to say had the courage to come on not knowing me very well. I'm so glad you did. I like what i'm i'm happy to. I'm happy that He asked me to do this. We ended up here round here. That's where the only place we've ever been there yet. We end with the guests. Saying the catchphrase. Keep it crispy for some reason. We have the guests said. Keep it crispy for now today you know. Keep a crisp stay present. Stay alert. listen that's what it'll mean today. You know what you have to keep it crispy. The agreement delights me every time it gets the fact that people are willing to do. It really does me and then when you give it a little a little assets a little. Personalization makes me even happier. Well lots of love to you. Thank you for this time and enjoy the rest of your day. I'll see you in the world opens up again. Can't wait vaccines common baby. All right pal b. Well idea is awesome.