Amara Hall joins me again, along with her beautiful mother Norma, talking about systemic racism and their hope for the future.


Payoff Caroline Hobby of get real podcast I want to talk to you about what southern living magazine has up their sleeve in the south. Talking about food is personal. It's a way of sharing a part of your history. Your family, your culture in yourself on the biscuits jam podcasts, southern, living editor and chief sit evans talk celebrity musicians like Jayco and little big town's Kimberly Flatman Brett eldredge Martina McBride in Gladys Knight to hear stories of how they grew up, and how they've been shaped by southern culture. Listen to biscuits and jam on Apple podcasts IHEART. Wherever find your favorite podcast? My name is Kim villager if I've learned anything in my years of studying uplifting black artists. Is that we all have the power to create something beautiful. That's why I'm pleased. Introduce you to people who have broken down boundaries in fencing and helped to create the first ever smart store. They're a big deal and it's time we give them our attention. Listen to your attention. Please Hulu podcast with iheartradio on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It's inspired by your attention. Please now streaming on Hulu. Watch for a fresh point of view on black history. So I'm so happy to be back here with a Mara my best, he this is our third episode. We're doing together he belabor. Her Beautiful Mother Norma you I have loved for many years is also joining us. And I just WANNA start by saying I'm completely unqualified to be having these conversations because I was telling Amara. I haven't known the like the history of what African Americans have had to go through. And I am starting to learn. I watched the movie thirteenth last night and I watched. That good movie. Oh My. And it's just it's powerful. It's a rene. -ducted outstanding talent. We are so lucky to have her and blessed the cheese part of our community and community I mean collective community. All of us learn from her. Because I'm learning things that I didn't know. either. What are you been? I had an uncle. In the while I, had an uncle that used to be awarded of Jessup which is in institution here in Maryland, not far away from from where we live and It's just phenomenal. Just in terms of what thirteenth amendment has done and is doing. Just fine. Putting US under that slavery kind of category again and. All ways I knew that the prison system was lucrative. I knew that it was a way for businesses to join in. We had some ex-presidents. Who are you know made a lot of money from it from from institutionalizing more black and Brown men and It was phenomenal with such an eye opener, but it's. You know it's deep. Deep sadness to that that I feel in terms of my generation. Because you know I'm going on mine. Sixty seven year have been here a while I've seen a few things and learned a few things, but I'm still learning, and that's the beauty for all of us. Has Nobody nobody is exempt from learning doesn't matter what you are color you are. How old you are. How young you are how? I feel about yourself. You know we can all learn where all teachers were. All students and we just have to keep that in mind. I wanted everyone what the thirteenth amendment is! If you don't know because I didn't. I didn't know this. As the thirteenth. Amendment, which is what the movie thirteenth is based on, says neither slave. Either Slavery, nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the Party shall have duly convicted exists within the United States or any place subject to their jurisdiction. So basically what that is saying is you can. No longer. Slavery is illegal. It's not allowed unless you are put in prison for a crime in-in. You are once. You were a criminal you are. You can be a slave again in essence is our. That's right that's. A big bomb it. It's you know cheap labor. Yeah, a lot of prisons are on farm wins It's They're working on what horse farms on Channel Ranch's. A you name it just about except for rehabilitating the prisoners that are there who may be wrongfully there in the first place, but when you think about you know the hard working citizens of America. Who happens to me a woman of come, or who has just learned to work hard because of my mother who demonstrated that to me, then just participating in that work ethic of forty three years in education I hopefully. AM. Hoping for not just all the talk that we're having about what George flooring has brought to the service back just in education period because as an educator of forty three years. You see it, you see the discrimination. You see the bias. You see how black and Brown children are treated differently. You see the psychologists having to learn in label students of color, a little bit more particularly, our black boys and you know being a mother three. My oldest is a boy is. My One and only truly. Brought from. This womb, my son than two girls, but we have to protect our children in as you know being a new mom of beautiful. Little Sunny Amar keeps me posted about her all the time. She's adorable. I'm so proud of you Carolyn. Kirby coming a mommy because it changes you. It changes your whole perspective Began teaching differently when I became a mother you because it changes how you see things in in those protective pinion. You just WANNA. Take them in Kabul them and protect them from all the harm that you know is out there and unfortunately you have to love them. Let them go to figure it out because they will figure it out so being a mother of in particular a black man. How do you navigate that because it is like you were saying? How is it different for him in this world then maybe year a white boy. It is it's very different what am I? Just thinking of stories when he first realized that he was, was a black man, young black man, I'd say happened around seven or eight years old, and he came home from school in another little white boy that he thought was his buddy. And his name was well in that time. Wheels aim was Amman so came home said that. Will call me a bad name among nano was it wasn't a good word because we have told him certain words, you just don't. You're not going to accept that because that's not who you are. It was the N. Word, and he was just so upset because he couldn't understand in knowing among the way we do. Of course he looked at, and he figured out that Oh that's the name that was not used very well. Of course, his grandmother just took him in her arms, and said Oh my goodness Norma Jean. Do you need to go see this mov immunity? Go Talk to them. You gotta go to that school. In do that in, and it was interesting because it forced the the Third Grade Class mothers to really come together. In a force the conversation because he was so upset about it in, he was so distraught about it that I could tell being sensitive as he is. He doesn't appear that way, but he really is very sensitive and just taking that information. Take it to heart, and you just have to treat it with love. More love more love. More love more undestanding. Yes, you are different You're going to be seen as different. You're going to be viewed as different. I can remember when he moved to Arizona and he was stopped at the airport I get a call at Oh. My God I think was one o'clock in the morning in. He had been falsely arrested They thought he was A. In. Wasn't Egyptian. Ugly was Armenian. Potential bomb threat to the airline industry because he been light skin. we look as though we could be I. Mean I've been accused of being Hispanic of being Jewish. I should say accused, but being mistaken for those identities in having to explain no African American you just have to get out more, you know. We come in all shades, all colors, all sizes in you just get out more but he was accused of being a potential bomber because they had the exact same name, except for one initial in two numbers off of their social security number. Wow! So I was on the phone for about forty five minutes trying to talk to this officer that obviously you have the wrong person. This is not who you think you have. But those little things are so key, and they add up. They add up in his psyche as black man. They add up in mind. Psyche as a mother tried to protect her son they just continue to add up and I think what we're seeing. Today is the. It's it's just an explosion of. It, it's it's got to stop. We've got to have these Tom Conversations and it's important. It's snowed by important I just commend you, I told him. I said Carolina's so braid. Said do you know the Gotcha takes the her to really come to grips with this? I mean it's not a conversation that I can have with many of my colleagues. Many my white colleagues, who who were kind of beating around the Bush, because you know I've been the first black in my school. I've been the first black infant toddler teacher in my school. You know having to go into the communities where they just weren't sure. What are you normal? You Son Nine, you sound bids. What nationality are you in having parents once I say African American Black Negro colored whatever you're accustomed to. I'm not white. and to see their jaw drop in that look like. Oh No I. Don't have people like you in my house I don't have people like you vent that I. Can serve a talk to? I'm like well. What are we? GonNa? Do I've been in your house. Be Any outfit thrown? On that story about. Knowing that house call. Oh. Yeah, this one of my one of my favorite students start in Baltimore, county like thirty one years ago, the infant toddler teacher I worked in special education for all of my career for forty three years, so the students that Sir. Were always different. In came in many different. Shades nationalities. We would have students coming from all over the world to come to this particular county school and I was on a late call in the afternoon and I went to make visit visit that I've been making for I'd say four months. you go once a we work with the family with the. You work with the student, and to see no learning new ways, different ways of. Eating drinking maneuvering beans that your baby sunny is is able to do, and should never be taken for granted because there are many many parents in children that that did not experience that. So I've always felt an empathy for for kids that are different, but any rate weird, sitting there working and and It comes to her that. She. Really didn't know me very well. She really thought that will while what's going on with you? And I said well. What are you making? She gave me those words she said, but normally you're so you're so pretty. You're so nice, but but what nationality are you and I said I'm African American? In she her her jaw drop to the floor, she couldn't believe this is a grandmother taking care of her granddaughter while her daughter was at work because you had to work with student to to work on different skills and it took time. It takes time to get to learn to know what they can and cannot do and. She just kind of stood up and I said but I've had your delicious Berry shortcake. We've had a cup of tea together. I mean that was our ritual. We would do things like that. She would make something special and I it, but at that moment. I felt a tinge of fear when I saw her. Coming in the back door, they had just done a fresh kill. Be here and. She told her husband John that. You know we have an in house. and. Been in an woman at that at. T and been hanging out for months. And I said Oh my goodness that. Let's not right, Susan. You've noticed in that. That's not a word. You can use around me, but I must admit if you don't address it at the moment when it's happening, it just kind of. Into that mysterious if nothing had happened. I had to let her know that time in moment that that wasn't going to settle with me. That wasn't gonNA be right in order for me to continue. We had to make it right, but I want you to know. Through the years through the years of the years, we became so most and. Attended her funeral, her family was there. We embraced week. You know they consider me like the anti of the household. Her granddaughter is now of Twenty Six years old. She's a lovely young lady. She got a job at a McDonald's too far in their neighborhood. But that's what I mean we've got to take. On the. You have to speak up. You have to say something. If you see something wrong. You gotta say something. It's just not gonNA sit anymore in mind. Temperament may be different than somebody. Else's GonNa. Shout it out. That's just not me. It's not my mo, but I am willing to talk to you about it and I can't give you. That teacher looked like. Straight can. Have, forgiveness in heart for her that you were able to still become friends with stay friends of her I. Mean That's a lot. That's what I'm realizing. A bunch about the African American community is. You and as a community of had to take so much injustice, and yet you still have joy still forgiveness. Yes, no are willing to have conversations in. It's just gosh, that's that's that's it so I can see why also African American community some spiritual because it's just like. Reverently whoa big, such a big stance to be able to have so much love for live. In your being just being having so much act against you for so long it's just systematic and I'm getting the systematic now. I didn't get the systematic part of it forever. Yeah it's it's. It's all derive to keep us in a certain space and we can't be put in a space. In that space we've been able to out RAW, and it's time to to let us grow and be in that. We're not asking for handouts. We're asking for now tuning just to be on the same level way. That's all we've ever asked for. We can take care of ourselves I. Mean Look at Tulsa, massacre in what was that nineteen twenty one? That was black wall. Street. It was totally annihilated they they said bombs. They kill black people in the streets. Children Women, of course, the black man because you have to destroy the scene, the seed comes from the man. So the band produces seen three. The woman in passionated that you know we've always known. We had to protect our city. We have to protect our particular. Blackmail children more than ever. Before but now today we gotta protect our female children to our daughter's. Because they're being pulled lowering killed yet. Thirteenth is a heavy heavy movie. We just saw just Mersing oh man. My brother's house. That's another good one. We're all people we're all human. We're just human beings, and we happen to be different colors, and we happen to be different races, but guess what we're GonNa read. We're we We came in all came in on a different boat, but you know we're all in staying boat now, so we'll be going to. We gotTA hack it out. We working out. We have to figure it out in. It's GonNa take all of us. Both bite's GONNA take every body to do it. We can't do it alone in. You can't do it alone, so. I just didn't realize the economic benefit of oppression. That is where I feel. I'd super naive and I didn't realize how much. The economy benefits by keeping people in prison and actually wanted to read this thing that Avon. About it, she said. The problem is that this is from Scott Woods wrote even who wrote and directed thirteenth posts. The problem is that white people see racism as conscious hate would. Racism is bigger than that. Racism is a complex system of social political levers, and we set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of white at other people's expense, whether whites, no, or like it or not, racism is an insidious cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn't care if you are a white person who likes black people. It's still going to find a way to affect you in fact you. Infect how you deal with people who don't look like you. Yes racism looks like Hey, but hey is just one manifestation privileges. Another access is another ignorance is another apathy is another, and so on, so while I agree with who say no one is born racist. It remains a powerful system that were immediately born into. It's like being born into air. You take in as soon as you breathe. It's not hold that you can get over. There is no anti-racists certification class. It's a set of Sochi. Socio economic traps in cultural values that are fired up time. We interact with the world the thing you have to keep scooping out of the vote of your life to keep from drowning. I know it's hard work, but it's the price you pay for owning everything, and that's from spot with and I just yeah, and I can. I can see that yeah yeah. Yeah I can see that, too, because I was thinking about the whole You know everybody's talking about now of the. defunding police and it's kind of. Put up an uproar with Yasser the enormous radio. I don't know what that means. In that way makes me feel nervous. Not. WHAT THE POLICE THEY PROTECT! It's a scary thing to talk about, but that's what. That's what it meant that. In other words, it's meant to strike fear in white people, so they think. Oh my God now. We're not gonNA. have any laws everybody's GonNa, be running around. It's GonNa. Be The wild west. Guess what it's been the wild wild west or black. For a long time, and it continues to be that way. It's just not that way for you when you call police. You know you're going to be protected. Every black person that causes police is is not necessarily protected, and when I think about you know we've defended mental health, Care Guide knows. We've defended education when I think of the programs when my son when tomorrow and will wear in school the physical. Education programs aren't music programs. We're trying to be cut now a in. The nineties mid nineties. We're trying to on will. They did defend those parts of education. We had to hold fundraisers to earn enough money so that we could keep the eating your keep our music teacher. Keep our art teacher so that our children could receive those services. What do you mean we haven't defended before we defended? We've defined education all the time I hope parents are now more aware of what teachers rarely do and that. Horns even. Their kids all my gosh teachers I love. Now. You better how your babies teacher angry Seco- chase you. or He needs it. You make sure they habit because it, amy's. It's not easy when you're one person. You Got Twenty Two kindergartners in your group and you've got to figure out what to do how to do it and keep it moving and keep learning going. We've defended education for for years with defended recreation and park programs, especially the most major cities we deep funded those those kids. We don't know we no longer have the the computer labs. We wanted no longer have the the programs that help children come in after school. Learn to do their homework a scale, even some of. Of. Our rotational schools have had to cut back in terms of teaching. Kids who aren't necessarily going to college. Everybody doesn't have to go to college. We need plumbers electricians. We mean we need people that can fix cards. We need all those those of other. You know jobs that were suddenly. You've non-essential. which now we know are essential. You know these essential workers, so so when we got to just invest in our people and stop pretending that those programs don't impact our society as a whole because they do. All those little things are connected to the bigger dot of helping us be. A much more rounded society we we've got the have. Nots and we've got even up playing. Will you happening to me because I? have been very nervous about this. And I am not I actually avoid confrontation at all costs of the fact that I am having these conversations. It means a lot to me to educate. What does De Fund the police mean to you like in the best way possible because you still want the police out there obviously. So. Yeah in all police officers are not bad exact. You know. We had a great resource police officer at my school who opposite Tim was one of the God wonderful wonderfully socks if he were scored in students in got did know them I mean. I can't speak highly enough of the police officers that are there to really help assist us, but defunding police to mean means that we are cutting back some of the funding going into perpetuating our warrior like response to everything we gotta come away from this warrior, mentality of domination of economy, reminds me back in slavery. Times of the slave catchers would become. The police is almost become like a slave catcher as opposed to. helping that person through the situation. We've seen it when you watch. The the protesters will say police officers pushing people to the side, and then the supervisor wants to keep it moving. Keep the line moving people down, but there was a person that was thrown on the ground. You need to make sure they give. I mean it's just taking portion of that funding and spreading it into the communities where it community programs are Armenian place, but they need help. Most major cities, every single sound, Terry, parks and REC program needs help every single solitary of after school care program needs help We'll help the then. We're not even talking about I'm thinking of some of my students who were autistic and who? Maybe have verbal language meeting in really are able to read on a pre palmer level back. If, they were to become confronted with a police officer who didn't understand the hand waving were. twirling around or or thinking that maybe they were on drugs, and they just don't understand you know we need. We've always needed more social workers. We've always needed more mental health care facilities in people who are really in there. We always need more counselors that they know that studies have proved that we always need psychologists that can sit down with student. Help them de escalate in. That would help the police department, so you can really concentrate on developing those relationships in your community, and we're really only talking. Maybe I've seen some statistics I'm trying to think of where saw that? It was on MSNBC, but at any rate like reducing the programs just sixteen percent of a police budget. I think they could do without in in. Let it infiltrate into your cities programs that are already existing but help to support your community we have to. We've gotten to the place where he got reinvest in people. You can't just cheat. Policing them. You can't just keep enslaving. Just, keep putting us in a bind or in a corner where all we WANNA. Do is fight. That's all we have to always be on the defense and. We got a lot of offensive players in our community. We've got a lot of brilliant people who have thought about this in who had tried it in Let's start using what we got is. We don't have to go outside. We don't have to go outside of our. country. They're all right near. Plenty we have plenty of people to help us Let's just start listening and actually start doing. It defended the fleas Oh my God no, we keep get rid of the police department. How are we going to get religiously I? Think that's the misnomer in on I. Mean it's not a full. You know just okay. We're going to get rid of them and put the money somewhere else. It's you know when. I show up to a protest and there are twenty five policemen in riot gear. Is that really necessary for a peaceful protest your knowledge. And then that just creates that angst within people on, so it's a you know it's like. Do we need to you? Know Brianna Taylor for those officers who were serving that no knock warrant. in Louisville noted. Do they need to show up with you know? unmarked. Vehicles in you know full on. masten Night Hawk special OPS gear to run up in her house. Like like no, you know I. Think to me defunding the police's like. Okay how can we take a portion of what would be used to instill fear in the community and take that portion of money and. Put it into mental health hooded into the community center, but it into parks and recreation, but it into. You know sort of de escalation again. Mark. An Hour. And, not assuming that everyone is just a criminal. Hey Account, hobby here. Women don't often talk about thinning hair, but nearly half of all women experience it as early as age forty. If you're one of them, you know can feel scary in stressful, which only adds to the problem control isn't given. It's taken, so take charge of your hair growth and make the next few months your time to grow thicker fuller healthier hair and a time when self care is more important than ever, every day is an opportunity to skip damaging styling tools and chemicals and focus more on better hair growth from within neutral, is formulated with potent botanical to help you grow hair as strong as you are, and it's physician formulated. Formulated to be one hundred per cent drug free on top of thicker stronger hair without lasers or chemicals, neutrophils ingredients may also help you get a handle on better sleep. Stress Skin Nails Anna, LIBIDO WHOOP WHOOP! You can grow thicker healthier hair and support our show, bygone neutral dot, com and using Promo Code Get real to get twenty percents off. This is the best offer available anywhere plus free shipping on every order. Get Twenty percents off at neutral dot Com Promo. Code, get real their best offer anywhere twenty percent off at neutral dot. Com Salt N., U. T. R. A. F. O. L., DOT COM Promo Code get real for hair strong as you are. Why is it that the person? The Black Man is always always assumed to be guilty? What what is that psyche that we've been programmed to belief? And it's been deeply program. You know we. We have this collective grief to me that we're feeling and IT'S A. Just I just feel a history of weariness. It's tired of having to prove our humanity without sounding. You know angry. Or you know out of control, but you know the truth is I am angry. But I can demonstrate that anger towards purpose and peace and understanding I know how to do that so I'm not saying all black people know how to do that. 'cause I can't speak for all black people. But I know that we are angry for good reason and it's time to stop. Hiding behind it because we have got to deal with systemic racism in this country I'm so encouraged by looking at all of the Hughes in people from all over the world. Just just just kinda grappling with this as we grapple together. Because it's hard, it's tiring. It's exhausting it's. Out. It's. Big Issue I mean now that I can see the depth of the systemic racism it is. Big It's going to. It's like moving. H Amine just it's. It's so big. It takes so much. Energy to shift this and I. do think it's been slowly shifting, but it hasn't really. Changed in some ways Aweso it seems from what I'm gathering is a very very UNEDUCATED unexperienced person to talk about this I just want to keep saying that I do not I am so so naive to so many things that I don't at all and act like I know anything from what I am starting to learn. It just seems like. It is just so huge in the it has made progress, but it also hasn't made progress. Or your sure, but I think by talking about it. You Know I. Think I for some reason it is just like I feel like a little more edge coming off. You know because we have to be willing to talk about it and negotiate and to. Come Up. You know you're going to have an idea that I didn't think I'm have an idea you didn't think of so. Why not collectively? Let's at all those great ideas together and make for for stunning. Make it better, or you know my future grandchildren if I ever. Had any. Your is good and I'm so. I'm so overjoyed with that to the point of Of crying, because it makes me feel that there is hope even if I don't see it in my lifetime, hopefully, my children are my children's children will see it in there, and you know the Sonny's of the world than when I think of Little Mikey and Sarah and you know Matthew my stepson, Michael's children. You know when I think of. Might neighbors grandkids when you know they're coming outside and or looking out in the garden are collected garden out here and and you know they run up to each other. They don't see the color they they see a friend. They see someone that they want to be with and I think. Because the world is mashing. It's becoming more colored anyway, so they're powers-that-be that don't WanNa see that happen and I get that and I think the danger is for. People like yourself to get involved and to not be silent about it because you've got to carry on the generation that you're coming from because your parents were brought up with a whole different idea, and their parents were brought up with a whole different idea We've got to help change the narrative so that they understand you know what? That's the way it is. We are meshing. We are becoming one world. We're becoming one race, and it's the human race in no matter what. Colors may pop out. You know it's it's all about love and and love conquers all in I truly truly believe that, but I I wanted to get back to your point about being from a spiritual standpoint as a people I always go back to God I know. That's my reference because. I feel very very strong about prayer. Until very strong about protecting might children as they have moved out into the various points of the world is. I can't reach them. I can't touch them I can't. Put. My hand on them anymore, so my avenue or my More Fair if you will is is prayer, and not just praying for them, but praying for those that they come in contact with prayer for those that they come in contact, you know changing the hearts and minds of men. Prayer that surpasses all understanding I. Truly truly believe that I think is a people we always have, but we have a generation now that you know what they may not take the time to come down on their knees like I will well, that's how I can not. Because I'm a on my prayer chair. I'M GONNA. Be Praying and I'm GonNa Bitty Colin and out and I'm GONNA be saying late saying it like it is because we have to. We gotta come each other. You know send out a prayer every single morning to my family. Because I know how important it is that they are covered whether they don't read it until they get ready to go to bed. It doesn't matter I want to put it out there on what that energy out there so that they know they are divinely protected, and that they have a purpose, and that purpose is real, and you just have to walk each day. Take each one step at a time and. Phil Fill that purpose that you were meant to do. Norm I want you to know you have raised one of the most incredible daughter humans that I have ever known in every one who meets Amara feels that same way Amara is truly I, say it all the time. She is one of the most spiritual gifted wise, but yet got edge and fog again link in speed to oh crowd, and like move them to their knees, and move their souls, but you or she can just be in a room and like be listening as she just. Has One of the most beautiful souls I have ever met and I know that comes from you. Norma and I know. You raise the right, but trillium. I learned so much from Amar every day and I. The reason I want to have these conversations on a big level is because of Mara I in our friendship, and knowing that I love so much that you love me and we can have honest conversations as friends Bauer staff that you know it's uncomfortable. Yeah Yeah, and I can remember when we first met Caroline when you guys are working with the record company and we went to that What was it? It's a not Chinese restaurant. I want to say that Asian restaurant, and we all sat in that roundtable and we we. Stuck in I just remember sitting next you thinking Oh my goodness. This girl is up. She is something. shafted a mom. You're needing some really good people. Because I just I was fearful for her. I'll be honest I was fearful for her moving to to Nashville and or you know very very white very country. It's proven itself through a great friend like you because you have been so so good to Amar and I just love you and I appreciate you so much enough so proud of you and Michael and your little sunny I can't wait to meet her one day and just to let her know how much I love and appreciate her mom because you are special. That that I mean I love Amara I learned from Amara every day. Like just be a better person because Mars the best I ever. We all. I don't think we have any surface level conversation ever. Just call me like can I just? Go, ahead girl. Just need you know cry or scream or whatever and. I think that's what I'm learning throughout. This time especially is how important it is to have. People in your life that are places. You know and all all of you who are listening your friends of color. Your black friends me a safe place to express their sadness. Anger, they're afraid. nece their gladness, whatever it is, they're feeling in that moment. We all just need a safe place? To. Express it you know and. I'm I mean this is. This has been really fun for manages back and listen to be honest because. You know people, but now my mom, they're like. Like Totally! Understand you. I did it now connecting the dots here. But people that don't know my mother You know I think one of my biggest compliment that I've ever received is. sometimes people say you know it. Just kind of it just feels like peace when you walk into a room. That is. More about you. Thank you and I must say that. You know growing up. I. You know I had a mother that her hands on me and prayed every single morning. Would touch me an area we shared. We shared a room our whole life. And at one point, we even shared a bed. We slept in the same king sized bed. It was so fun she might tell you differently, but it was so fun like slumber. Every night. With my little sister, but I always remember waking up in that bed. I was not awake, but my mother knows. Yeah I'm the worst getting up I'm. Got Auto. Diesel would not let me wake or he. He would growl at me if I'm touching her like. Get outta hit dog. Them Right, but I have these just very sweet memories of being barely conscious but. Hearing my mother just pray, Obara, and so I think about now you know the prayers that like my grandmother prayed, and that her grandmother prayed and that my mother prayed. And those of the prayers that are touching me now you know I think about the way I live my life and how I'm actually carrying out. Dreams that my grandmother proudly had and never got to see you. I feel Very. Honored. To be Exactly where I am. Not Knowing what the Hell I'm doing, but I'm here. You know we talk about that. All The Times like I feel like a reinvented myself so many times here, Nashville and Caroline's been been right there through all the transition like L.. So you're GONNA also you'RE GONNA? You'RE GONNA do spoken word now. Okay, Great! Okay, so you're going to be a teacher women's prison. Yeah, great! Totally see that for you. Okay, so you're going to be a model. Okay, Great! Yep! Always that you know just having Having someone who? Really sees me. Is Very special, so thank you. Tell me what? You have learned from your mother Amara. How much time do we? Have learned, I definitely think I've learned how to communicate with people you know like in the in the same way you know Mama Hurts. You just be like you know I'm not going to be like. Yellen all up in your face although I had seen her yelling at people's faces. Her kids though you know. but I'm absolutely the same way like I'm I'm not. I'm you know not someone who I feel like? I've just learned to have A. Even, temperament especially, if I'm trying to communicate something of importance landing everyone because that's effective. Very. And You know definitely learned a lot about work at. although my mother probably would be like. You have because I lived my life very differently. And I you know very well. Who Law Law and I slap Ray. Of the family of on. I've learned. I've learned that people will remember how you treat them and I've watched. My mother spent her life, serving others and serving. Students who are different of grown up. being in and out of her workplace, and in and out of her classroom, and sitting with her students, who summer verbal summer nonverbal and I think that has definitely affected me always being very aware that I am. Just the fact that I woke up this morning. I'm blessed. You know what I mean just the fact that I will go up in my right mind and I can. And I can use my arms and I can you know? I have. Full control of my body. You know watching so many kids who don't. And who it's, it's a victory for them to you know walk without a Walker one day. You know or to be able to have that job at McDonald's. It's a big deal. Also I feel like I've just watched the way. She serves people and Serbs families and serves our family very much the matriarch of our family. And we, we just enjoy being together. Like I think. My Love Language is quality. Time. MOM would love. Language is quality time I never did figure I mean I didn't finish all the books, and you might gift satellite. But I. Think Quality Time in a quite yeah an. Affirmation words of affirmation definitely I can't Get up and get out of the door. I don't even go walking before I actor. Read you know certain affirmations that helped me just prepare my mind. But. even though I'm not. I used to do it because before going to the workplace. You know you gotta be. Ready Cause Suzy walk in the door. It's jumping things happening. Yet at your spiritual armor on. You gotta get your mind that you're. When you're walking up yeah woodley absolutely. Yeah never know GONNA. RUN INTO SOMEBODY WHO's having a bad day. I feel like I've also learned to I don't think that I'm as. Outspoken as my mother's. But I'm getting there as I get older, but I've watched my mother just. Say things in the moment and how important it is to call things out in the moment and don't let that moment pass especially. If you feel, you know, someone has said something. Upset, she people cannot read your mind. It all you know, don't know they don't know so You know I learn a lot just watching the way that she interacts with other people. And then just you know. What's what's important? In life and it's. It's just. Loving on the people that. Love you and being you now? Just being an encouragement. Being positive. Yeah, you'll love like Amara Gif. Love actually comes from my mother. You know that was one of her catchphrases. Give love. Give love give blood. No So, I ally, and we we have. I feel like we're still learning so much right now. especially as we get to also not just a mother daughter, but we get to be friends. So you know we tell. Your finally old enough. Right I'm finally. We get you know we just have real conversations about our hopes and our dreams and what? We're afraid of and what we're thinking about, and what is next and what you know. What's really going on? You know without that like filter. Ahmad. What have you learned from the prison ministries because for everyone listening Amar goes and she. Helps. Women who are in prison. Right tree about their lives. So right now. We're actually I'm getting to meet with a lot of my students on zoom. WHO HAVE Who've been released so You know 'cause obviously Hashtag covid. We can't go into prison right now. All say lace. Bait? Circle, Place poetry circles before it happened. Tell me what your experience in the prison ministries. So I like to say it's a mixture of like group therapy meets. Poetry writing! So we would spend you know spend the first ten minutes of class. Just kind of doing like what I say just like a doing a dump so like come in. I want you to spend the first ten minutes. Just writing about whatever you want to write about, even if it's I, don't know what to write about I. Want you to write that down even if it's I. Don't WanNa be here. I want you to write that down and so like taking an opportunity to get. Into your body get into how you feel because a lot of. I just. I have a big heart for people aren't. Seeing! You know like. Even, you know even like just all kinds of service, workers and people that you know we. We just up until workers now. Don't look at right. We don't even look at them. We just you know our cards and keep it moving or whatever, but women in prison are there also mothers and their sisters and bear aspiring? songwriters and you know someone be on radio. Someone a you know just. have good jobs to support themselves and their families right become teachers not want to become teachers in Bay have. You know they've they've made a mistake, and now they're in this. In this world where they're not. Treated as a human. You know you're you're told when to eat. Your told one Beslakic your old. What to wear your told You know it's even You know it's just it's dehumanizing. You know you're in a room. Full of other women you know having to go to the bathroom and use the shower and you know it's all just can be very very disheartening dehumanizing. Let alone light. There is no rehabilitations on my whole idea as you know I'm going to take. A program where even if it's just for an hour two. I want you to sit in this room. As might equal. As someone who is just trying to figure it out and we're going to try and figure it out together and I. at the time was reading just mercy. I was reading the power of now. was reading. The four agreements which I know you Michael Love. you know just really just sharing my knowledge is taking notes on every Oprah's super soul conversation habit in have access to podcasts in so I was just sharing what I knew or what I had heard, and we would have a discussion about it, and we would write some poetry about it and learn about those women 'cause. You told me when they wrote down there. Poetry Celts, did you? What happened in those moments? I mean. while. We implemented a rule which was no negative self-talk? So. That was that was really interesting, because so many of them had been told by. Spouses expert friends by You know accents. Is. I you know parents Just back. You know by people their their trash. They're nothing. They're not going to amount to anything you know. The one girl was You know twenty six years old and she's got five kids, and it's like you know she's like. How am I ever going to? Get Out of the cycle of poverty. How am I ever going to be another so? So many that. Were thankful for prison because they fell herb for jail on. Sorry because they felt you know. Their backs were against the wall. and. It. Saved their life but I-. I challenged each one of them to look at okay. Let's just assume that. For whatever reason? I know it's fucked up. But you are here. For a reason, and your only job right now is to work on you. You cannot do anything for your families right now. You cannot do anything for your job for whatever whoever you were before you came in here. Your only job right now is to focus on. What energy and my putting into the world. How am I? You know contributing to the mess of my life? and. How how can I make better? How can I start changing some of? How can I start? Go from feel worthless I feel worthy. How do we get there? How do That happen in some of your students. Yeah I mean just through their. Just do their poetry. They're all brilliant brilliant writers you know and just. You know a lot of them just like. Nolan's ever. Asked me what I think about. Self worth no one's ever asked me. You know to. Create, a safe place you know for myself and for my cellmates. You know I've never been. Challenged to do that, so I always say. One rose to the challenge. You know and you see that in their writing from. The first week to. The six week when they graduate. Do you know you can absolutely see it in their writing And just? You know so not my job to as you are always say. I I told them I feel very unqualified I. Am not a teacher. Not Certified to. To do this program I just? Only be honest with y'all on made it up. because. Love it. Because I could just see a need and I. Wanted to. Ask just wanted to be here with you. and just the power of light sitting with someone who feels. Less than. And you just seeing them and just saying hey, I, see you and I must say right here with you I, get it. You don't feel worthy, but. What if you did? Yeah Yeah! You know are right. And what if you did you know? What would? What would that look like so? We did a lot of stuff like writing. Trauma happened when they were little right, so spend a Lotta time writing to your younger self. So I? Want you to write to your younger self right now and and comfort her. What would you write? What would you tell her? Now. And and the sad part of that whole Travesty is when. The, the women who were there in the prison didn't have a mother who could help them. You know an Auntie or a mama's best friend or someone to come in and to to help them work through their their own tragic, because they're Mama's didn't know on their MOMMAS. Mama didn't know you know again. We're getting back to the recycling of of people in the prison system. In, when you're in you, see these women and the light turns on. You know we just. Pray that light never goes out again. And that's I don't like. It has to be shown. Nurtured someone, teach you that that you are worthy. It's been time to let you figure out how to find that within yourself. You're never own that then how you know. Netflix that is so true. That is so true I know. I wanted to earn I'm sorry we at a time. I was going to Share with you. That I was thinking about the law enforcement community as a whole and. I love what the mayor did of of Atlanta when she spoke as a as a mother. Her community and how You know thinking that there's so many. Mothers who heard George Floor? You know call to his mother and I think it just touched up. Such a universal nerve for all of us on that mother frequency because. you know you, do you do end up on another frequency when you become a mother and you don't have to become a mother to get on that frequency, I wanNA make that very clear to many women who are mothers to to all of us, who never really bursted child, but my God they supply all the nurture and everything that we need to move forward, but. I was just thinking of Of something, I wrote down last night. I was up early in the morning. Riding in the I can thank my daughter for that because she. Encourages me to you know it's a mutual admiration society, and when you are blessed enough to have children who growing to wonderful human beings, it's easy to share end to have conversation and just be on a frequency. That is just unimaginable. It really is. It's so precious in. It's so dear. And we're very very fortunate to have that. There hasn't a blessing as a mom to be able to have that relationship with your kids and they're grown. Just got good kids like I love my kids. But I just love them. Now and I wanted to share with you. What I wrote at. You know the wee hours of more. I said to to the law enforcement community as a mother and protector of all children. I want you to let our children live. In DC our children look at them as you would, your own children and they are beautiful, they have full of life. They contribute to this world. They are full of love. In prominence, they are strong. They are peacemakers and bridge builders. They are future directed. They are dreamers. They're smart. They are Horton. They are inventors and innovators. They are compassionate. They are full of wonder and amazement. All of our children. Norma! And I just came in I, thought Oh, my that sounds like an Mr is. It does get Amar Isration. That's shoot. Awesome out you like it. If you can maybe. Teach you how to post that on instagram. Oh good idea. Navy on cut that clip in put it in. The video posted on instagram. I just wanted to tell you what honored has been to be able to talk to. Both of you. Nora love. Amara, raisin, an amazing daughter and I've always loved you. Norma every around you. You just have that same kind of peaceful spirit that Amara has. Its genetic I appreciate you guys. Letting me fumble through this conversation. This uncomfortable conversation that I don't know anything about for everyone listening I am learning I am trying to learn. I am taking recommendations of movies to watch a bookstore like I am dying. To black culture, because I want to know and I am the one I am learning. It's heavy in. It's hard in. Inside if I may everything wrong attempt to keep saying that because I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just trying and so thank you for letting me have this conversation. everyone listening. I encourage you to educate yourself. Go watch thirteen on Netflix go. Watch just mercer. Then they see us. That's what I WANNA watch nextwave also though and go watch these movies in just like open your eyes up to what's happening in the black kosher. We need to know about this because y'all saying we are all in this together. We are all year, so let's. Let's learn and let's be hard to change and so I would love to end my podcast. I always ended with. Leave your light. What is your hope? For this world. I hope for this world. I was I think John Lewis said something. The other day I saw him on Ellen. Degeneres any said that Got So profound America's young people GONNA turn this world upside down in order to turn it right side up. Thought Wow. That's a lot because that's what gives me hope it's our future. It's our young people. It's it's all of our children who are e whether they're racially mixed whether they are pure bloods, whatever they are that all of our children, because we're all God's children, but all of our children are GonNa make the difference in brings us to the next level. And we'RE GONNA. Get there I love that. Great. Awesome are what is your hope for this world? My Cope for this world is that? Is that we would. Spend more time. Listening. And less time. Not Be so quick to voice. Our opinions you know that goes for me, too. I've actually had a lot of conversations this past week were I've been challenged to. Hail Mary. You'RE NOT GONNA. Change my mind right away and just because this is what she think. It's not the right thing, and I've been really challenged by that and I think. That's absolutely right. We all just at my hope is that we can spend time listening to one another. Week. Thank you both for joining me? This is my honor. nearline. Thank you for making your podcast debut in? His mother daughter conversation that so. I just want to wrap up by saying I. I stumbled through this I. Don't know what I'm talking bout. I'm trying to educate myself, so everyone listening Mara Norma. Thank you for having this conversation with me. Please everyone gives me grace for not knowing what I'm doing I just want to be a part of the chain because we need to educate ourselves, so thank you for coming on and taking the time out of your day to talk with me and talk with my leg. Appreciate. You being I love you, too. Okay! The. The twenty-seven clubs podcast about famous musicians who died prematurely in sometimes mysteriously at the age of twenty seven. This podcast is hosted by me. Jake Brennan Creator and host of the award winning music, true crime podcast disgrace that season to the twenty seven club launches. June eighteenth, two thousand and twenty with twelve episodes on the life and death of Jim, Morrison of the doors, the twenty seven club contains adult content and explicit language. You can listen to the twenty seven club on the iheartradio, APP apple podcasts or every podcasts. Katie couric I'm Bozo. Saint John. I'm an award winning journalists. If I, do say so myself and I'm hot to trot trailblazing marketing executive and we're very confident. We wanted to combine those business and branding expertise with Katie's natural curiosity to create a podcast responding to this moment in time, welcome back to Biz with Katie and bows each week will interview innovators, creators and CEO's to find out. How are pandemic present? Present will forever change the business of Tekken, media, travel and Leisure Education and Sports, fashion and pop culture, because in many ways this has been a really dark time, but it's also a time for reassessing recalibrating and finding the light. We're doing ten episodes and you can catch them every Thursday, so listened back to Biz with Katie and bows on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Were ever you get your favorite shows?

Coming up next