129 - Martin Scorsese Try Anything


welcome to the kitchen sisters present six where the kitchen sisters Dave Nelson N.. Nikki Silva before we get started with today's episode. Some radio TOPI news. We've just launched our annual fundraiser. The one time of the year we ask our loyal listeners to support the kitchen sisters present and the network that helps make it possible. This year our goal is to reach thirty five thousand donors and we need your donation. Oh nation to get their donation of any amount will make a big difference. Radio topiary supports independent. podcasts like this one that bring the stories is that you just can't stop thinking about and talking about at the dinner table the stories that stick with you over time think Radio Topa forever and now we're asking you to make your mark on radio topiary. Your monthly donation will help us continue to support the important deep and profound content. You can rely on. 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CBD At twenty percent off head to send Soil Dot Com and save twenty percents off your order by entering code kitchen sisters at checkout that Sun Soil Dot Com Promo Code Kitchen Sisters for twenty percents off your order raging bull taxi driver Goodfellas. Alice doesn't live here anymore. The films of Martin Scorsese are astounding as are his efforts to preserve the history and heritage of American cinema through his groundbreaking film foundation. Martin Artan score says he is a keeper a steward of American and global cinema one of our heroes. The sound mix of raging bull was one of are great. Inspirations and had a big impact on the kind of mixes we thought were possible for a fledgling kitchen sister stories in the soundtracks. The way the man waves music into a stories or doesn't leave it just shocks you with Pierce's with it clubs with his scores is an soundtracks are like new orders and then there are his documentaries his nonfiction films starting with Italian American portrait of his own parents and family the last waltz rolling stones shine a light and his most recent documentary but not quite documentary. Three Bob Dylan's rolling Thunder Revue The San Francisco Film Society invited Mr Scorsese here to honor his nonfiction film. Work and premieres latest feature took the Irishman about the teamster union. Boss Jimmy Hoffa. We were so taken by his own state conversation that we begged the film society to give us a copy the recording. So we can make podcasts of it for you. Were kind enough to say yes today. The kitchen sisters present. Martin Scorsese testing. Hey thank you so much. Thank you that the Castro why you've talked about how formative film was for you and I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the nonfiction aspect act of that early documentary films that you saw either in the movie theater on your sixteen inch. RCA television at home. That's interesting because most of the early years that I was viewing films. They took me a movie theater. All the time where narrative films of supposedly supposedly narrative fiction films and the sense of non-fiction sort of slipped in slowly. I think by the late forties early fifties. I I think really something happened again. It's a whole thing about me. Having Asthma Nineteen forty-six I wasn't allowed to play sports or war. Run around or be near animals of any kind and trees and I was allergic to everything no laughing because kids would get into a spasmodic laughter laughter and then turn blue and it was very bad until always taken to the movie theaters. I think the closest thing I could think of that was overlapping a little bit into nonfiction with the film. Wars and this is slightly be misunderstood. Because as the whole thing that goes back to the forties and fifties and early sixties if it's black and white and grainy that means it's real and that comes from newsreels now with the younger people today of course. The perception is Cameron on a iphone. So it's a whole different perception of what reality could be. In any event event we had a television in nineteen forty eight and they were. These Italian film shown once a week on Friday night but Italian American community in New York and and we saw the neorealist films I five or six for me. Look at the film's Grainy Black and white. TV and subtitled ELT. I know who is still cinema but it had another immediacy to adding to that was the fact that the people in the film particularly pies. Aw Cellini found. That begins insisted that my grandparents came to the apartment and watching it when my family and how they were speaking in the film was the way they were speaking speaking. Thank you and I guess that state line that way but ultimately I couldn't really see a difference difference between the two and then of course we became very very aware of the nonfiction film in the fifties particularly films from the WPA. A Leo Hurwitz Parallel Ryan's and all of that so that became something we could see them. A theater in New York called the value in the theater was very small and the screen was tiny and it was a no nonsense every day in the summer. They got double bill every day. They changed it and so many documentaries their first episode Eisenstein film just walked in the middle and so this led to the awareness of this kind of film making when I started taking film courses at Nyu in one thousand nine hundred sixty by that time. There's Penny Baker. There's Lecoq there's the maizels surely Clark and John Kesse these shadows and shadows. And Shirley Clark's a cool world. There was no difference between what what I saw on television. And what I saw and we'll be zoll one and it could be done is. He's so in a sense they're interrelated so much that once I saw shadow's even window it's another world for me culturally. I was very very much Coming from a little Kinda Sicilian village in a way But when I saw shadows I told my friends at night. I said there's no more excuses we can do. It depends on what you have to say. You know so we started doing everything we could even if we didn't have anything to say just but we knew that the pictures could be made and the documentary. Element was there all all the time. Our Teacher The Hague Manooghian. It wasn't school the arts that was a couple of classes it was not like Nyu now but he was only intent. Untung showing US or inspiring us to make documentaries anybody who made narrative films one thousand nine hundred eighty nine sixty. That was out here in the West Coast. There was very little to New York Independent. Were you resistant to that idea. Or because I think you also said that you were more interested in making more stylized narrative films at the time. We're absolutely. Yeah but the thing was that it seemed that how should I put. It should be a film. It shouldn't be a documentary or fiction. Film should be a film. There should be no difference. I mean that is happening now to not really shouldn't be pigeonholed into saying well. The documentary should be this way. And that's nonfiction. And what if it's altogether. What if you could pull from everything and experiment with it? And that was the idea that ultimately became mean streets. Really how do you choose your documentary subjects subjects. How do you decide what is worthy of spending the time and effort? I think the key one was Italian American when I made eighty my mother and father that was nineteen seventy six was the bicentennial maybe doing the PBS series. The storm of strangers was called and they had for each ethnic group a half hour film and they asked me to the Italian when I suggested that instead of doing be traditional or colonel logical obvious. Way of going about explaining the immigration battalions. So why don't we just go to my mother and father's apartment on Elizabeth Street. We'll have dinner okay but like really. You're sitting down there okay. Why why are you down there? What he wants from me? We got in there her myself from the kitchen memoir you and Martic and I started shooting my doing so far. It's about to ask a question but I saw that. My mother took over the scene. You what should I say you know. You want me to tell you how how how learn how to make. Why don't ask me the question? Don't you hear that. Then I mean if you would ask me a question I would answer GonNa. I'm GONNA save now. I WANNA know how you learn how to make sauce. We'll talk to you. How long I mean how many two years I'm going to use it and doing it and I want to see you do it? Well you know. My father was greg resistant. And she started arguing with him can mean Charlie Book. The way you're talking to we know that's what I mean. I'm an actress. I'm not putting on any as you want to fight or something. Talk Talk to me when you talk to your son. My mother and father by that point it was that they were never went to school. There were working in the garment district but kit started make these movies. They thought I was completely crazy but they participated data because their son is doing and I know I wanted to start you. You're going to tell us about the sauce. You'RE GONNA show us how to do the source. By the time I finished. which was the next day three hours three hours? The next eating with them at the table by that time I realized that they had a whole life before me. Wow I didn't realize what really like in the tenements in nineteen twenty two. You know I remember as a little boy we used to have Wallis. I mean people loved us. We see the kitchen. He used to be a bedroom. These to pay. Oh yeah mom cook for them wash. Their clothes needs to pay how many people on the rooms. It was two bores me my father this rosy Mo- Mikey Joey Faye seven and two was night forearms over more on. You got no furniture at bed. Time you pick them up when you had the room and time before them down and then you want to sleep all the questions we had didn't really matter anymore. They just took off and went and went and went onto Kellyanne. Yeah I was right. What were you about? My father's smashed a great thing but no they can't your mesh once. Oh my God. Yeah father didn't have. The machine by father had jokes. You know hit body. We'll come work exactly beside scaffolding apple. Being what kind of things happen was it was a lot of things you know. Another time. He came home. He hurt his then. He was out of work so long. And you know in the master of the House within market. It was hard on us. My mother used to paint to keep the family going. My mother was a very fine Hanso. The older people will remember when I mentioned his name. My mother made pants for Daddy Browning a millionaire. He married young girl. Her name was peaches right. This is I'm serious and my mother was such a fine so whatever and he used to go here on our ninth street to have his clothes made and they used to give the pants to my mother because her celine was beautiful. My mother used to take the call. Listen to me. My mother used to finish the pan. Hold up night. Then I began to realize as much fascinated by for leniency hopefuls. Kubrick Eisenstein all of the editing when a person person is in the frame directly talking to you or directly to the camera. That's the movie that then affected everything I did in the fiction films too including the film. The Irishman I know that if the actor hold it and if it's interesting enough you stay on them. We'll be right back. The kitchen sisters present is sponsored by better help better help offers. Licensed professional counselors who are specialized in issues such as depression stress anxiety anger family conflicts. LGBT matters and more connect with your professional counselor in a safe safe and private online environment. Anything you share is confidential and it's convenient you can now get help at your own time and at your own pace you can schedule secure cure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist kitchen sisters present listeners. Get Ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Kitchen in sisters so why not get started today go to better help dot com slash kitchen sisters simply fill out a questionnaire to help them. Assess your needs and get matched with a counselor slur. He'll love better help dot com slash kitchen. Sisters I then. I started making documentaries for every film I made like a companion thing than taxi. Driver was a film made. Call American boy on a friend of mine. Steve Prince New York New York. The work was Last Waltz by that point the music of course music was something that again. The family wasn't in the habit of reading and everything was visual but there was music all the time all kinds of music opera but primarily jazz and swing and popular music but probably the most important music I remember was Jangle Reinhardt. And the hot club of France and I had Antonio was five years old. I don't know what that sound was but I played those seventy eight thousand Stephan Berg Pelley. The I didn't know what it was. But that impulse music always creates for me the impulse to shoot. Oh to compose and design a scene. Always music was just a major part of my life. It's always influenced Irish minutes minutes five seconds in the still of the night at the movie soon as I read the book as that's it it's the saw it's like it can mean streets be my baby. It's the Rhonette it's Phil Spector's wall sound. Music has always been the great inspiration. Something was turned. Eventually I did something for nothing but the blues with the Eric Clapton upped. And there's about twenty years ago I was cutting to some of the Great Blues Musicians Muddy waters and Sonny Boy Williamson. That's what I thank and Eric Clapton felt that was really a problem. Because he says I can't be equal to them but at that point I I understand what he means that people say. Oh your master master is I've seen all the pictures so I understood them what he meant so we decided to go ahead and do something on the blues and make a the whole series on the blues. That's the whole thing. Started with making be documentaries or films on music the next then we're doing gangs in New York and my a friend Jaycox Bro Jeff Rosen. Who is the archivist? I think. Producer for Bob Dylan. Jeff said to me I have this footage edge some of the interviews. I've done we wonder if you look at it. If you think you could do something with it so I looked about an hour of footage including a lot of beautiful interviews of Allen Ginsberg Bergen and so all these wonderful characters and the whole idea that any had this you see jeff had done an interview with Dylan for about four or five days. I saw that interview. I was intrigued by where it could go particularly by the look in his eyes and that took about four four years or three or four years that bolt together no direction home no direction. I wish point than a Libya Harrison came into the picture and she loved that film a lot and then she proposed me doing something with George Harrison. I really love George. Harrison's music and and I was fascinated by how Harrison having everything seemingly to me aside and went for the spiritual matters. I thought that was really fascinating especially at the time when someone who's being ridiculed as well. Yeah the hell would do it you know. Where's IT GONNA take us and at became Living in the material world right around the same time Jefferson came back and showed me some footage from the rolling thunder tour. And you said You'd think you'd do something with this. I sent her. I sorta Kinda beaten up everything but I saw this performance that was really fantastic and they had hundreds of hours of film but I WANNA do. I couldn't care about a conventional documentary on a tour. So what the hell is it about that. I mean it's one thousand nine hundred seventy six the bicentennial the sixties rover Tailwind. Maybe this is the last of its kind. The Committee Adele are going through the going through America. You're helping America's saying there's a and an idea. I think what we're talking about interviewing people as we can into as a people but then Jeff said he was talking to Dylan Dylan. So what if you weren't there. I said Yeah Okay now. That was a challenge. All right Oh yeah like what. If we get like the two manager Jour- and he represents goal to represents all the businessmen Jim Jim Jim nobelists ahead of paramount pictures and he was great. What what did you say to those people about what you were asking them? You Know I. I don't know I don't really know I said in a way as Jim come on. You're like whenever you speak your very Mediterranean of different things. You can talk in a certain way money embarrassment. I didn't make money. What's the matter with them? It didn't make money right exactly and so we went. We took that attack but the best was the best. Was that Dylan suggested Sharon stall sharing right. I work with Sean on on Casino. Sharon I said. Check Dan this so we made up the story now. The point is it says conjuring the rolling thunder to. What do you want to watch something? That's great so why don't we get a spirit of a circus atmosphere. It was a feeling of being alive. We didn't they have enough masks on tour betsy. How bad if you come on the road with us? He hasn't done an interview in twenty years. Joan Baez and necas together in a sleep. Take a lot of people talk about combining things that are true in untrue to reach a sort of breeder truth with that at all part of the idea of this or was it just about being could be clear actually but I a I don't think so I don't think so I gotta say for me always because of listening to music and then seen people perform the truth is for me in the music it is in the music and you could say or do anything you want even describe it you could say this means this that doesn't it it's I think something could be written one way but it can mean something else entirely to you at the age of twenty one at the age of forty means something different and so what's that elusive major art you know he's like that's why it's the joker with the mask asking a sense the waving the idea of a masks and parole Liz hundred parodied a d John. We'll be there but that white face. A real feeling of a traveling committed alert which was very joyce I do remember in Laurie. Site in one thousand nine hundred fifty. I remember hearing a guy playing guitar. Somebody singing we look out the window and they were still traveling strolling musicians and my grandmother throw money down and that's New York it's just wonderful all to Experience with that and so for me. I don't know about a great truth. I just went to the heart of the music and so I'm just wondering wondering if this country at hassle approach help you get at something with him because he's hard to pin down. I mean wiping them down. First of all as the A why. Why do you want to know we listen to music go with it? You know something. He did forty years. AGO is still here. Still hearing your heart too so go with that. Want to know just experience. Abbas the idea and I have masks expand the masks for something. He did those masks and then he says in the interview. They weren't enough masks. We have written some stuff into say just to get him started. And Jeff is very good at these interviews and you see what happens there because one point. He's talking he's talking about the rolling thunder things started and he goes this all and it got so let's use them also opens it up to a kind of improper Tori intuitive intuitive way of moving with with this structure of the piece Mike a piece of music rather than a narrative structure does say something interesting towards the end. We said what's left of it. Nothing ashes and really you know. And I mean he's basically all those factors that create seventies at that point will never happen again and that is ashes thanked honest but from the ashes. It's like the Phoenix of rises again. And we found footage of that beautiful speech Ginsburg. It's wonderful full addiction. The end go out and make it for your with knock on his door really as younger people see this. I hope that's just what he says. They are flashes. Bits and pieces. You saw it all or saw flashes and fragments take from US some example trying to get yourselves together. Clean up your Iraq find your community pick up on some kind of redemption of your own consciousness. Become more mindful of your own friends. Your own work your own proper meditation your own proper art your own beauty go out and make it for your own terminal. You haven't great tress stress in your audience that you're GonNa get what's going on risk. I didn't know if they were going to know what's going on and honestly people will get mad at some time but you gotta let people know something I mean. Come on what did we do the country and then David came up again putting the as the beginning the disappearing woman. Hey something's off it's the truth wrapped in. ooh That's the idea Martin Scorsese try. Anything thanks to the San Francisco Film Home Society to Rachel Rosen director of programming and most of all to Martin Scorsese Film Master Film Keeper. You've you've been listening to the kitchen sisters present produced by the kitchen sisters with Nathan Dalton and Brandy how the kitchen sisters present is part of radio. Tovia appear from P. R. X. A curated network of extraordinary cutting edge podcast created by independent producers. You can find kitchen kitchen sisters on twitter facebook instagram and you can check out all of our stories and workshops. Public events are t-shirt and more at kitchen sisters dot org thanks for listening before we go one. More reminder that we've just launched our annual Radio Radio Topi a fundraiser. And we really hope you'll show your support for the kitchen sisters present and the network that makes this show possible Radio Topa you can and donate at any level to help us reach our goal of thirty five thousand donors just go to radio topiary dot. FM to learn more and donate right now to make your mark that's Radio Topa Dot f. m.. Thanks for listening talk radio.

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