OA285: Tulsi Gabbard & Michael Flynn


So I hold myself in contempt. If you try to pull me up here to court without attorney. The questions caught Jacka Willie objection. I'm gonna lowered Gerke Rogers that offenders carjacker. You didn't kill Thompson, but you did Mr. Welsh. Karen. Water. Paul is out of order of water. Welcome to opening arguments the podcast, that pairs inquisitive interviewer with the real life lawyer. This podcast is sponsored by the law offices of p Andrew Torres LLC for entertainment purposes, is not intended as legal advice, does not form attorney client relationship. Don't take legal advice from podcast. Hello. And welcome to opening arguments. This is up two hundred eighty five common at you not lot while we're live. We're live. Yeah. I rely I'm alive. But it'll be edited, hopefully, they may need that, because you never know what's going to happen. We are on location, San Francisco. That's where all the Legal News is happening. I'm sure how's it going? Andrew any of these going fantastically. Well, very, very excited to do another live in person, you and I are, are in the same lovely studio together. Oh, yeah. That's true. Because the QNA in case you missed it go. Check that out. That's available for patrons on patriots or with some high quality audio or you can hop onto YouTube and find it as well. But that was fun. We were we were together at last together you'll Soka, and we are together again. But we are this is businesses norm. L. A O A waits for no man. Yeah. So we have to continue the show. And I think we got pretty good setup here. I think we, we nailed it. We'll see. We'll see Brian tells me when I sent him these files, but we have so much to talk about. We've got the tariff news. That's definitely going well in his well-thought out. And I'm sure we'll just smooth sailing. I've been version Andrews against Al smooth sailing. You know, stay on stay on target. Trump's got it. Okay. And then some yodel mountain. Oh, yeah. This is always good news. Andrew quick preview question for iota mountain. Is it a good sign? Multiple. Choice. Good sign or bad, sign when you fire your million billion gillians, zillion dollar turns a critical time. Right. When you need them been convicted. And while you are pending sentencing while it pled guilty. Okay. While you are pending sentencing in a criminal case is it a good sign to fire? One of the best law firms. Tonight. That's what I'm reading from the bar. Booklet right here. Yeah. Very we're gonna have to. Let's, let's open. And then we're talking about the DNC, there could be some critical, little rules that come into play because there are nine hundred seventy three candidates and I think the first debate is nine hundred seventy two yeah. So, you know, have to argue about what exactly will disqualify that, that last person, I think, we're in there somewhere. There's so many I hope that there is an away representation that stage I will point out if you know, we have twenty candidates on stage and we're limited to ninety minutes per question that they better hope that I don't get ninety. Question. Nine ninety minutes ninety minutes for the whole thing. Yeah. There's yeah. That'd be that's an away lightning ground. Yeah. That would they would need a zookeeper with a dart guy just ready to go when Andrew starts going to that. All right. Let's do. Oh, you have some teasing though, for Tuesday's episode. Yes. Lots of people have asked about the revelations in the department of commerce versus Ross case. The citizenship question, and there have been explosive new allegations that have come out, I say, explosive they're things that are totally unsurprising in any kind of way. And so the question is, how is this going to impact that pending decision there was an order handed down today, but let's put all that together. Nothing is going to change in that they're going to be no developments between now in Tuesday. So we're going to cover that on a super deep dive on Tuesday answer all of your questions about the citizenship question case. But, but we just don't have time to do that, and everything that's breaking to you've heard of a deep dive, but have you heard of a super-duper depot that'll be all right? Well, look forward to that on Tuesday, banal, I believe it's time to talk about the tariff wars. Mexico is out there, the threat is that but we haven't really started. Great clone tariffs. Yes. So this seems like it's going well Trump, I think issued some demands, but not, but it's not Mexico's not even sure what to do. And it was like do the vague stuff that I want you to do or we'll start tariffing ourselves because that's how it works. You know. Go through that, right? Because I think this'll be super instructive secure your southern border. I will stab myself with this pen right now. So you and I know how this, but what are you explain, like how tariffs work from somebody with, with your, I'll start with what Trump seems to think which is? So you've got some some trading going on, right? I guess it's just importing expert at crossing the border, right? It's all I think it's just if it crosses the border likes not even if you're selling it or anything because I've read a lot about how some of these auto parts are just shipping across multiple times. And it has to be it has to formerly be imported toward it. Okay. But it's so I wasn't sure slightly different than like selling, it Corozzo. Okay. But anyway, if it's imported or vice versa, guest, depending on who's terrifying whom. Yeah. I think he think Trump thinks when we buy things sort of, like when you buy stuff from the grocery store, for example, I've used before by stuff from Safeway. I buy groceries from Safeway now I've spent in my life. What tundras of thousands of dollars on groceries? I don't know how idea over the course of my entire life, and they've never they've never paid me for anything. So I need revenge on because I all I've done is pay hundred thousand dollars. They haven't paid any money now. Yes, I was able to eat and live for that time. But that doesn't they haven't paid me any dollars. So therefore, I'm gonna terrif- them. And then magic is I think is the next I think he thinks that with we do tariff, then Mexico gives us money and then step five profit. I think but really what it is. We do the terrify people who are importing the goods that person. So somebody with a business in. Where has whoever Pennsylvania, something who's like, oh, I can get these have the workers in Mexico may make these parts. Do some stuff too. And I move it across the border to finish up, or whatever that, that's the guy who pays the, the money now it still affects the pricing and all that because obviously, if he can no longer, what a sexist thing if he or she if they whoever is running the factory, I since I had Trump in mind, I'm just thinking about, you know, evil white businessman. That's my typical like in my head, but whoever it is whoever's doing the importing if it costs them way too much, which it probably will after all this said and done then obviously that will kill the demand that will eventually does have some effect. But that's what I think, is going on. Where did I get that, right? Or wrong. No, I think I think you got that exactly right. And the critical aspect here is that the terrif- is paid on the US consumer imports goods from. Mexico. So in other words, your auto part costs one hundred dollars when you buy it from a Mexican supplier that now costs one hundred and five dollars, and as a result, your fixed costs for building, your car, or building, whatever it is that you're doing with, that part have now gone up by five percent, right? And many, many industry. Right. So if if you were if the price on your raw materials goes up, right? Not everything is going to be imported. But let's say you manufacture stuff in this country you use part sourced from all over the world. Some of that comes from Mexico. You're now paying three percent more for your raw materials will that's three percent less in profits. And if your profit margin is four or five percent on average. You know, now, all of a sudden, you know, you've have or worse you were potential profits. So this could really be imposing tariffs. It's on the importation of foreign goods has the potential to drastically effect at the margins businesses that require on the importation of. Materials that are that are produced elsewhere. Yeah. And like there's obviously, there's what happens every time when Trump does something stupid is, there's a higher level conversation of, like, well, there are problems with this, and obviously, he has no information on that. And or just doesn't care doesn't read so he doesn't he's not doing anything that would address that. But there it's not like so there, there's some obnoxious sides, the arguments and people who could ultimately agree like, well, something needs to be done for good reasons and therefore mister capital, T tariff men doing all this stuff might have some effect. What's the history of if brief? I mean people this hasn't been done really like since for a long time. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So to two things, but before we kinda talk about all of the ways in which deviates from even standard protectionist tariffs. Right. So, for example, we talked about Trump's tariffs on China back in one sixty two and I'm gonna talk about the ways in which. This is very, very different from that invocation of authority. But so, so the argument that the steel manning of the argument, we're gonna steal man, Donald Trump. How about that? Yeah. We must if we must the stealing the argument is there's gonna be a five percent tariff on that steel. We will. It's going to cost us more, but we're doing it for you. If, if you have a supplier that you believe is artificially reducing what it costs produce that right? Slave labor, for example right now. You import that, and that widget that you are importing is being produced at a sub market rate, right? Make sense. Like, if you're trying to protect certain businesses in the US and country, ax is like oh, we can make that because they have children do it or don't pay him. Oh, we can make that way cheaper. It might make sense to say. While we, that's a that's awful, like we don't wanna profit, and that's hasn't happened. But that might happen, we don't wanna profit on the backs of child labor and some country and be that we don't want that to kill the business that there would be in the US. So kind of offset that Kereta match. It isn't exactly right. So, so that is the steel. An argument for that, that doesn't apply here. Right. Because as you as you're going to see from the language here, it is utterly unconnected to the production of US-based widgets, right? Like there's, there's not even any predicate finding in, in the Trump statement, which by the way, he wrote himself rightly it's not like there was an infant wreck. So there's not even any claimed connection between protected. Is his stupid idea is definitely not true that if he does enough of this, then they'll bring all the factories. No, no. And I'm going to get to. It's even dumber than that, right? But point to we've described how will unilateral tariff on Mexican goods that are exported from Mexico imported into the United States would be bad for US business that assumes Mexico just shuts up and takes it. Right. Because what always happens in these situations is the other country says, oh, you're imposing tariffs on our goods. We're gonna do the same in reverse. Right. That's what we mean by trade war. Right. That is the escalate right of, of raising the cost to your end consumers on goods from other countries like you'd want some sort of like a North American. I don't know free truck like it a like a range, now a free trade like a grain Schmidt, a dream at navy. I think the way you want people to leave re on North America would be key. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I mean, obviously and again, acknowledging there good arguments against certain ways you could go here there on this. This isn't the way to having a, a bunch of thumb wars. One two, three four of tear for, and then spiraling out of control. And by the way, tariffs being on illogical things like just a cut like the original round of tariffs. It was like, well, this is going to have this thing isn't. And like, you know, there's no logic to it. So here's the statement and I'm going to link it in the show notes. But here's here's the crucial aspect of the statement, and you'll see instantly the, the way in which this is different from everything in literally, I've never seen anything like this. Okay. So Trump says to address the. Emergency at the southern border. I'm invoking the authorities granted to me by the international emergency economic Powers Act. But opinion that accordingly starting on June tenth twenty nineteen that is Monday, the US will impose a five percent tariff on all goods on all goods imported from Mexico. If the illegal migration crisis is alleviated, the reflective actions taken by Mexico to be determined in our sole, discretion and judgment. The tariffs be removed. Pause there I think it is entirely possible. Donald Trump wrote this sentence. Right. I cannot he's it's tasted it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think he said I should say like it. True, one of his personal lawyers chase secular who is, is maybe a lawyer dumb enough to have written this, but, but outside of that it is. It is mind. Boggling, to me, that would be like, No MR Trump, you cannot use imperfect to itty throughout the universe here. It's like sending a ransom note and being like Andrew. I have your dog. I have your dog until such time, and I send you this note, unlike until such time as you have done things that I will figure out, then I still have your like why wait to send that way to kidnap the ducks, have you don't have my, my. I know I send you a demand letter that has no tangible demands. Why bother why? Save on postage to this is, I think a window into the demented mind of, of Donald Trump, who thinks like what you do is right. You, you maximize your leverage or like I'm gonna come out strong, and I'm going to demand this, and this, and then Mexico's gonna come to the table and capitulate, and like an and as you point out, right. This is a five day deadline to do a thing that we don't tell you what it is in our sole discretion judgment. Otherwise, we will pay more taxes. Otherwise we're gonna continue to hurt ourselves. Yeah. Then continues if the crisis persists Kama, however, comma, which. Anyway, if the crisis persists, however, the tariffs, will be raised to ten percent on July one. And then it keeps it escalates up to twenty five percent right? Every month it's like up, what that's another five percent. That's another five percent until October one twenty nineteen tariff of twenty five percent terrorists will permanently remain at the twenty five percent level unless and until Mexico substantially stops, the illegal inflow of aliens coming through its territory. So again, more evidence. I think that Trump wrote this, and not even a terribly stupid lawyer write like a lawyer, even J secular would like define what the thing is right. Would be like we need to solve this crisis here in after blah, blah, blah. And then you wouldn't say like until the crisis is alleviated for paragraph one for sentenced one and then in sentence three go. And we're going to keep those until it's substantially stops the illegal. Which one is it? There's no way if you were I'm thinking about this as like if Mexico, were my client, right? And there's no way. Amdo. Know-how. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now, what makes the strange if you went back and listen to one sixty two. And by the way, that's a, that's a good idea. It's episode. I'm gonna do it right now. While you're no okay? So when Donald Trump announced the steel tariffs he did. So pursuant to nineteen seventy four law. Right. And that those steel tariffs are an aspect of where congress delegated certain authority to the president. Right. To promulgate regulations and take actions recommendations security, one that he no, no. That's the that's the distinction here. Right. So those previous every time the president has that I know of imposed tariffs on another country, pursuant number one. It must be pursuant to congressional delegation of authority that power rests with congress. But like look like. We understand there's the need for flexibility, right? Like you can't just say okay, we're gonna make all the findings congress move, slowly. So we're going to delegate certain authority to the president to make findings in connections with developments the change. And that's part of law. The authorities cited here is the I e e PA, the inter the international emergency economic Powers Act that is fifty USC section seventeen to this is the section that Trump cited in his emergency declaration over the building the wall writing, and we talked about, how that was going to be the subject of lawsuits and Trump who always wins and wins until you're tired of winning lost on that completely gave up, right? Like, I'm gonna use this, and I'm going to divert funds to build the border wall. And you know what, like that didn't happen at all because the legality of that was was beyond questionable here. There is nothing. Thing in the I e EPA that grants. The president the power to impose a tariff. Really? Yeah. Here's what it says. It says at the time into the extent specified in previous section, the president may under such regulations as he may prescribe by means of instructions licenses or otherwise, investigate regulate or prohibit a does is now a one, a one any transactions in foreign exchange a to transfers of credit or payment between by through or to any banking institution. Right. And we've talked about like freezing. Freezing aspirin. Yeah. Okay. To the extent, again, that's not unlimited to the extent that such transfers payments involved, any interest of any foreign country, our national thereof, not a huge limitation, but and three the importing or exporting of currency or securities by any person with respect to any property subject to the jurisdiction of. The United States. Now I didn't hear tariff. Yeah. There's no look, so to make the argument you have to say this is part of my power to otherwise right. Right. And it has to be with respect to someone subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. I'm gonna use this on the bar, by the way, how answer e I have the power to other one other otherwise clause. So this. Time to make a quick prediction and move on from the segment. This is going to develop. I believe the tariff will go into place, and it will be announced, we'll go into place on a Monday, the tenth and will then immediately be the subject of lawsuits, and we're going to be embroiled in lawsuits. And I think a court has really, really good again. I've been through all of the law, the steel manning on the other side, is that courts interpreting, the I E, P A, have given it, an expansive definition. Right. So, but I have never seen the IEP A used to impose tariffs. I believe that it has not. And I think the argument of no, you don't have the power to do this under this law. It's a really, really strong, so it could get enjoined. Yes. Yes. That's exactly what I think will happen. If I had only invested in injunction futures. This would be a billionaire. Yeah. Injunction this you would. Well, yeah. Well, this is only the. Segment. I know we could go on at length about this. But I think we, we need to leave it there yet much. That will initially. I think I think it's going to be announced on Monday. And I think probably before it can be implemented. A court will issue an emergency injunction blocking it from going into effect because the word isn't there. And, and look, the reasons we're going to go it's way too much in the weeds. We're gonna see what happens with the filing. But the reason is that the nineteen seventy-four law that, that Trump used with respect to China. Requires you to make certain predicate administrative findings right now again it's not hard. It's your administrative agency, but it just takes time, and I think Trump was Noah disciplined, they don't have. So we'll go into over under on how many times you think somebody in the administration has set tried to say president. Terrif-. They don't would not how an inorder you know, like. Thousand how many times I think any estimate you have anyone trying to correct Trump? Like if you haven't read, volume two of the Muller report like every other page is like, and then Trump instructed his subordinates to do that. And then we're like no, we're not gonna do that. It's not works. Any of this work over under on? That's not. All right. Well time to move on to some yodeling. Hey listeners opening arguments is brought to you by light stream, if you're looking for a way to save some extra money this summer start by paying less interest on your credit card balances you can refinance those bounces with credit card consolidation loan from light stream. 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Because people have got to know whether or not their president's across you're not aware of any contacts during the course of the election. How many times have to this question? Can you just rooms? I know you have to get up and ask a question. So and put Russia is a ruse. Okay. Well, the answer to the question, the, the absolute cliffhanger of a question posed in the pre show does firing your high-powered attorneys as you're still awaiting sentencing. Does that bode well or poorly poorly? Again, full disclaimer, Michael Flynn's lawyers at Covington Burling, not just I used to work for Covington, Berlin. But rob counter was in my class. It's we are I, I know him. Well Steve, Anthony is a long standing that's the number two there. He's a long standing of counsel someone for whom I have done work. Right. So, so I know these folks really, really, well, you didn't get comment or anything. Did you reach out text for common? I. I can start doing that. But I have a pretty good idea. What the answer is going to be, she just put in every show notes OA reached out for comment. But yeah, are for everybody just this that is assume that unless I say, otherwise, because I have reached out anyway. All right. All right. So this relates to this is volume two of the Muller report beginning at page one twenty one and and what happened in in. So that's the obstruction section Covington and Burling Michael Flynn's lawyers began cooperating with the Muller investigation in November of twenty seventeen. And as a result, Michael Flynn withdrew from a joint defense agreement that he had with the president. Yeah. Right. Joint defense agreement says, hey the lawyers for both sides can share documents and it's all covered by common privilege. And so, when said you know what I'm not sure I wanna be a part of that thing anymore because I am talking to prosecutors, and prosecutors are telling me as, as happening I've committed crimes. And now there is we no longer have a joint interest. We have interests that are adverse to one another, so. Told the president haywar withdrawing from this joint defense agreement, and then the president's personal lawyer, John Dowd called rob Kellner Covington and Burling and left a voicemail. And said let's play it. Yeah. No, I, I wish we and said, no. No, no, I'm not gonna try and do John Dowd's voice because don't you could do anything? I'd be like oh yeah. That's a dead ringer. Yeah. So, hey, rob this John again. Maybe I'm sympathetic I understand your situation. But let me see if I can't, I can't state it in starker terms. By the way, these bums are in the trans. I'm trying to do if you have and it wouldn't surprise me if you've gone to make a deal with and work with the government. I understand you can't join in the joint defense. That's one thing if on the other end, we have there's information that implicates the president, then we've got a national security issue, or maybe a national security issue. I, I don't know some issue we've got to, we, we've got to deal with not only for the president, but for the country so, you know, then then, you know, we need some, we need some kind of heads up. Just for the sake of protecting all of our interests, if we can without you having to give up any commit cronk. Forget that static crimes. No. Well. And this is the sentence that Alan Dershowitz, and, and people who are not arguing in good faith of seized on. So I, I do wanna pause, absent the joke here. He says, so so, you know, then the, you know we need some kind of heads up. Just for the sake of protecting Oliver interest. If we can, you know, without you having to give up any confidential information. So, and if it's the former than than, you know, remem, remember what we've always said about the president and his feeling toward Flynn. And, and you know that still remains but. In any event. Let me know. And, and I appreciate listening and taking the time. Thanks, pal. So you're reading that word for word is word for word. I'm for 'em. And thanks, pal with the spell. I am. I'm not a lawyer. I this strikes me as the demand you start reading this strikes me as him someone like you give an improv actor like, okay, you need to convince someone to commit crimes with you without saying, hey, let's do some crime. Schism crimes by like. That is why wanna read the entire Email in its with no reductions no changes. No nothing because that Email was summarized in the Miller report. The reason for it being summarized. Was again, out of an abundance of caution for not revealing potentially privileged information. Right. And, and it was quoted right? So there are ellipses, and it is quoted unlike the bar letter, for example, with, like, thirteen different ellipses in there. Right. And the reason you do that is because you're treading super carefully. When you have the president's personal lawyer talking to Michael Flynn's personal lawyer, right like you. So the argument being made in the far right circles, is that Muller's excerpt ING of that Email was misleading and that always male voice right? And that, and that now that this is it's obviously, you know, total exoneration of the president obscure issue right now. Did you get the full one? That's the full with that was. That was the one. I'm not gonna read the re the excerpted one because it's exactly say that can go home when page one Twenty-one evolved to go. Check it out. But I remember there is argument about, like, well, he said, no without revealing our. Hey, I'm thinking is there a way because, you know, banks have lots of money, right? And I'm just thinking, like if you and I if we could convince the Bank to give the money crimes. Yeah, without comedian, do we make it clear, the half to give it to us of their own will? But they're gonna give it to without no crimes. No, no, no crimes. No crimes. Yeah. It, it clearly sounds that way. And remember, this is a lawyer leaving of voicemail. Yes that to somebody who was cooperating with prosecutors. Right. So John would have to be and he's not, he's a smart guy have talked about, you know, the, the work he did in, in the Pete Rose investigation. Right. Like he's a super smart guy who's been lawyering for three times as long as I've been alive. And so he he's not gonna do the like. We're in, you know, in I'm craze on the no he's not gonna do that, and the Muller report. Let's go back to it. The surrounding testimony after that voicemail was left is what's really, really damning here, and it didn't change. So this is now. What Flynn through his council told Muller. Right. They got the voicemail and again, the voicemail is allied in one two, three four five six places right? Then it says the next day Flims attorneys, Ken, my, my buddy rub Kellner return, the call from the president's personal counsel to acknowledge receipt of the voicemail, Lindh's attorneys reiterated that they were no longer in a position to share information under any sort of privilege, according to Flynn's attorneys, the president's personal council was indignant and vocal in his disagreement. The president's personal counsel counsel, said that he interpreted what they said to him as a reflection of Flynn's hostility towards the president, and that he planned to inform. His client, that is the president of the United States. Donald J Trump of that interpretation Lindh's attorneys understood that statement to be an attempt to make them reconsider their position because the president's personal council believe that Flynn would be disturbed to know that such a message would be conveyed to the president. That was very convoluted. Could you give us the Andrew yell? So the Andrew is. Covington. Burling gets this voicemail. They talked to Michael Flynn, they say holy clown horn. The president's lawyer just called me and said, can we commit some crimes here? Right. I've gotta look, I'm sorry. I've got to call back and say, no look, we're withdrawing from the joint defense agreement. We're talking to ask, you know, I can't talk to you about any of this. Even if you've done the like, oh, it's patriotic for, you know, there could be a national security issue or other issue. I gotta do this. And then rub Kelner says I talked to John Dowd and John Dowd was angry. He said, I was indignant and vocal. That Dowd was indignant and vocal in his disagreement with our interpretation, and even further said, I'm going to tell the president, I'm going to tell Donald Trump that your being hostile to the president that. It's a reflection of Flynn's hostility to the president, and then Kelner says, and I rob Kellner interpreted that as an attempt to make me reconsider my position on withdrawing from the joint defense agreement, so obstruction. Yes, if course it is obstruction. So let's go to then the terminal finding it's ten pages later, by the way, there's nine other patient right away. Saints ten pages later before we get to the terminal finding that's because there's nine more pages of how Trump just in this section. Yeah. Tried to obstruct Justice in connection with Michael Flynn. Here's what ultimately Robert Muller's team concludes with regard to Flynn, the president's had private and public messages to Flynn encouraging him to stay strong and conveying that the president still cared about him before he began to cooperate with the government when Flynn's attorney's withdrew from joint defense agreement, signaling that Flynn was potentially cooperating with the government. The president's personal council initially reminded Flint's count. All of the president's warm feelings towards Flynn and said that still remains. But when Flynn's council reiterated that Flynn could no longer share information under a joint defense agreement. The president's personal council stated that the decision would be interpreted as reflecting Flynn's hostility to the president. The sequence of events could have had the potential to a flight effect Flint's decision to cooperate, right? That's all you need to obstruct Justice timid, ating witness. You are you one hundred percent. It doesn't have to be intimidation inducing, a witness in any way to give testimony right to refuse to cooperate as well as the extent of that cooperation, okay? Yeah, talk to, but, you know, if there's a thing that could involve as an pray and national security. And then Muller continues because of privilege issues. However, we could not determine whether the president was personally involved or knew about the specific message that the council delivered to Flint council and this morning. Michael Flynn fired. Those lawyers. We do not yet know who he has hired. I wou I would have done that the reason to do that again. Now stepping criminal yonder now now where we are is outside of the, the mullahs report. And now I'm speculating okay. I think Flynn has seen. I think he's done a Thomas Negga. Tron right. He's looked at the last eighteen months and said, great. My lawyers were telling me I needed to cooperate. I need a treat live this like an ordinary criminal case that there are consequences that would be going to jail all of that. But. Why should why should I be the one playing by the marquees of Queensberry rules here? When the president everybody around him doesn't seem to care. And so if I fire CNB right now at the time that this meant that this voicemail becomes public that is my way of signaling back to the president. Hey, look. I stayed strong. That's what that is. The only way that I can interpret is, this is Flynn go. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're right. This came out and I didn't know and now right? You know, screw those guys. Here's my question. This is not entirely may be on the topic of what you're talking about. But. You mentioned that this lawyer, who left, this voice mail. This is not a crank. This is not. This is an experienced yet old old guard guy. But, but what I wanna know is what kind of desperation does that signal to you. Right. I mean to leave voicemail like that. And then what was he protecting? I mean, this is I guess, one of the many reasons that people thought there'd be so much in the mall report in there was, but, like, what is that is that something we know about, like, what, how what would make them so nervous as to try to commit a crime or to, to stay abreast of you know what you know? Right. So the answer to that is remember that what Michael Flynn is being sentenced for. Here is lying to the Muller investigation about his contacts with Russian ambassador, Sergei Kislyak. Right. So the only way to interpret this is. Oh, gosh. Somebody with extensive contacts between us. And Russia is now talking to Robert Muller and the, the, the tone and substance of this of new. No could be all right to, to general right to somebody who you know is, whether you agree with them or not. And obviously we disagree with them on virtually everything. Right. It I don't think you can be a high ranking member of the army and not be patriotic about the country, right? And not be and not feel like okay. All you're working with Red Eye. I get it. It look but, but you see the, the tug on the efforts to appeal not just to his. Yeah. Right. Oh, you're in this, too. But also the like they look this, this could be a national security or other thing, right? Like it's it's hard to steal man. My saying is if yeah. If I'm if I'm you know, Trump guy over here. I'm trying to to give. That side. What possible reason? I mean, if this is all a big hoax, if rusher is a ruse, what possible reason could there, be for this voice mail, you know, like what I cannot begin to. I mean, again, I, I will Lincoln, the show notes, the Alan Dershowitz, daily caller peace, yet, point now you're right. Actually won't do that. Give them clicks. It's it's it is one hundred percent if you, if you had any thought left of we'll, maybe there are alternative explanations, and not like Dershowitz, one hundred percent in the tank for Trump reading Alan Dershowitz attempting to explain how like this is just terrible news for Robert Muller. Now that the full voicemail is out when you look at how misleading the summary in the report was, it's it is. It is laugh, you have to live in an in an in a in the world of alternative facts, and in a world in. Which, you know, Kellyanne Conway, is the only person telling the truth cook to parse what Dershowitz, so this terrible. Yeah. Dershowitz nightmare. I countdown to us finding out more about why why he's so in. Yeah. This so to conclude the firing is all about sending a message yet I think I think that is sending a message of Flynn go and hey look like I didn't give him them much, and I and I'm standing trumping or their Flynn is hoping that Trump sees that and. Wow. Yeah. And so what that tells you is. It's entirely possible that. Lind had were stuff that he is not yet given. Yeah, good point. So I know the, the question with pardons, and all that is always, you know, state crimes remind me on Flynn, do we have him on any state anything. We do not have him on any state anything because Flynn was the, the person. And if you look at volume one of the Muller report, the there is extensive documentation about Flynn's contacts with Kislyak context with Russia. Ultimately the conduct for which he was indicted, and then to which he pled guilty was lying to the Muller investigation. So, you know, that's not that does not implicate a, a state investment shoot this, this took a depressing. Turn. I wasn't prepared for that. How well jeez. The bad guys always win. Wow. Should we leave it on that? Let's leave it on that awful note. 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And you just never know and having that comfort of knowing that they will be protected, and your kids will be protect. That is really crucial. And it, it makes me feel better all the time to be honest, and policy genius doesn't just make life insurance easy. They also help you find the right home insurance auto insurance and disability insurance. So if you need life insurance, but you've been busy doing literally anything else, checkout policy genius. It's the easy way to compare all the top insurers and find the best value for you policy genius dot com. Nobody wants to shop for life insurance. That's why they make it easy. All right. And finally, let's talk about the DNC said, we've got twenty canned there's like twenty one that are close to the debate. They're trying. They're arguing about kind of how to how to narrow that down. What are your thoughts? Yeah. So the DNC published rules earlier this year on how candidates would qualify for the debates. The first one is June twenty six this is an NBC MSNBC Telemann debate. And everyone should watch and pay attention. To that, as you are not being facetious. The DNC said, we're gonna limit this to twenty candidates on stage twenty one debate. Yeah. Is is still a nightmare. That's a nightmare. I thought they were doing like a JV like you know, it's it or not so that so the debate is, is scheduled over two days, right com. Yeah. But the way in which you qualify for that are the criteria that the DNC prompted right? And those have two different criteria. Right. One is Poland. You have to be at one percent or higher in three qualifying polls. Right. Or and or I should say you have to qualify on the basis of fundraising right? And the fundraising is meant to demonstrate grassroots support say and or it's either and or. Well to do both or it. Here's why I said, no, no. It's good to seize on my language. But the reason I said it that way is because the way in which this shakes out is the initial selection criterion was either or but if more than twenty qualify than those who meet both get priority. So yet, the second criterion is a an attempt to measure grassroots support and the ideas, if you receive donations from sixty five thousand individuals with two hundred of those that must be from at least twenty different states, right? So thirteen candidates have hit both criteria. Right. They are definitely on the stage. There's some weird ones in that list. Yeah. Yeah. So Andrew Yang is, is one of the unexpected once and I wanna talk more about him in an upcoming up. Episode because injury Yang is a as of right now. He is a one issue candidate. That issue is you be I yeah. Yeah. University skin come, and that's a super interesting topic. We can't begin to talk about that in the second the other one, I did not even know declared is someone named Marianne Williamson. Oh, I believe I heard an interview with her. She actually sounds really impressive. I didn't know really who she was but yeah, I, I don't know anything about her. Yes, she hit both so which is really on thinking for the right the right person. I believe she endorsed, Bernie and sixteen because some of the questions were like, well, now you're running, you know, like in. Yeah. But she had a great answer like she, if, if I have the right person see I, she actually did an interview on pod. Save America probably because she hit both these things. And they're trying to interview all the series candidates, you know. And I was I didn't know she was seems like she's an author a motivational speaker. There's a lot of Gil set for president. I guess. Yeah. I mean look, you know there there's some there's a lot of woo in that area. But, but I want to say that listening to that interview she did sound extremely intelligent. It wasn't like a BS like all right. We all need to just grab our energy. Be the inner Bart Simpson that you can be everybody. Hold hands. Right. So she's guaranteed a spot on the stage. Yeah, the other folks. So that was like I said Andrew Yang, and I'm glad to see I want him part of the discussion, and then the other eleven who were guaranteed locks on the stage are the people that you think of right yet, I don't know if I can think of eleven Biden, Biden is Harris's to gillibrand or gillibrand is not she's the one club charts who I met. I, I don't know why. Yeah. Clo- char three. Yeah. Because gillibrand is not even like. But yeah club chart Warren, Warren for right Buddha. Judge Buddha judge five five is, is better on that, that. Oh, oh, I don't think I said Bernie, you did not burn seven two seven. There's like so Yang does yard does. We're just going to eleven you've got four more names to get or more name. And you had one strike already with Jill LeBron. I meant I meant. Oh, okay. All right. All right. Come on. Allow friendly amendment. Yeah. Thank you, who there's going to be somebody major who I missing isn't there? I guess I'm I, I don't know. I'm forgetting the forgotten seven. Very respectable. So the four you're missing the, the big one, you missed his Looper. Is that one show realize that name? No, but we're gonna get to that in a minute. Okay. The four who, who are also had met both criteria are Cory Booker book should have come up with that. Yeah. Washington governor, Jay Inslee. Had both. So he had both Tulsi Gabbard. She met both criteria why it's one percent, sixty five thousand dollars. These are not huge. I, I mean huge. Standard. And the final one kind of more were fringy is Julia Castro. Oh. Okay. So that leaves folks who have qualified under one of the other mechanisms right as potentially not being on the stage and the polling includes collar polling, but not fundraising includes Colorado, Senator Michael Bennet. Colorado governor John Hickenlooper. One of your strikes. New York Senator Kirsten gillibrand. One of your strikes now folks that I didn't know were running California rep, Eric swale. Well know him at all. X maryland. Representative John Delaney, who zero I don't know why he's running. Yeah. Ohio, congressman Tim Ryan. Oh, yeah. Tim Raines pretty cool Bill de Blasio. So the, the big one that this leaves off, and I use that, you know, is Montana governor Steve Bullock and the reason is because Bullock was initially reported unofficially. As having met the polling threshold, and the DNC than said, oh, this was not. We're not going to authorize a particular Washington Post poll because the poll person Twenty-one like this. Yeah, right. And, and the reason for that is because the DNC said, we're not going to include a to Washington Post ABC news polls, even though their initial statement said that's a reputable polling organization because they didn't like the methodology in particular. They didn't like the methodology that gave you an open ended. Right. Rather than list of candidate said, oh, who do you support? And then I, I would point out getting one percent in an open ended pills harder is much harder and more. Impressive. So the question is can Bullock can anybody who's excluded? Can they sue the DNC and say you change the? The rules on me right? That the Bullock already saying you change the rules on me on the answer to that sort of hearkens back wheat, we talked about the Bernie Sanders, right wing fund. There were lawsuit so lawsuit against the DNC. So the, the answer to that is, is, is certainly a very, very strong may be right. And, and. Well, I mean, the answer is you can sue, right. Right. That's not a hard bar to count. But the link in the show notes, the, the Bernie Sanders lawsuit again. I want go back and listen to that episode of the show that was one hundred percent bankrolled by right wing sources relying on Gucci for two point, oh and known Russian intelligence asset. So if you still think the like Bernie Sanders got a raw deal any brought a lawsuit because of it, you should know that those people were hijacked in any event, the, the way in which you bring a lawsuit against the DNC is a private organization. Right. Not a governmental entity is, as either a democratic voter or primary voter or as a donor to any of the candidates to say, hey, look, I gave money to the DNC, because the DNC promise to be neutral about the candidates. Right. So you need a per someone who's giving money to the DNC to the DMC candidate or someone. You need to you need a democratic activist who supports one of these candidates. That's going to be excluded from the stage. And then you bring allegations of fraud. You say look, they promised us that they were going to be the parenting street for under false pretense. That's exactly that's, that's the interest. The framework out there. There's no way that, that can can one of these cans or somebody, you know, their wife donates to the DNC tomorrow and again, absolutely. They would have standing one hundred percent. So if you know if you're listening, Montana, governor Bullock, like, you know, have a have a friend donate money to the DMZ, and that will give you your standing for your suit. Then have to you know you'd have to identify that they engaged in fraudulent conduct that they that they deliberately changed the rules on the Washington Post poll too 'cause you injury. And, you know, look, I, I don't if I ran the DNC, I would not have twenty candidates on stage. Yeah, that's insane. But, but it is I mean you know, in a nightmare. I'm kind of looking forward to the debates because I think that could be really cool and positive way. But also, yes. Twenty and look like it, I'm sympathetic to if you say, hey, I'm a small person here, right? It's going to be hard for me to gain attention. But the counter arguments are Pete Buddha, judge and to a lesser extent. India, Yang, right. Andrew Yang met both criteria. They found a way yet there they found a way to cut through only a few people who should be on the state. You know, it's we don't get to do it. Fortunately me in for your, we'll see. We'll see how the podcast coast. So there you go. There you have it. Very interesting stuff. And what would great timing? I think it's perfect timing. To think our top patrons are hall of famers, all time greats at patriotair dot com slash law, who we had such a fun time, with in our QNA the other day. Oh, NFL. I just wanna give a little plug. Also, if you didn't catch Andrew on sl on series inquiries, only my podcast search that out because we did talk about Buddha, judge and other DNC stuff. We try to keep it more factual here, a little more political and punditry over there a little bit. But that was a lot of fun. So thanks for coming on catch that, if you haven't already listeners, and now to thank our top patrons who are do a lot awful movies in around a week. We'll, we'll make that happen. Don't worry starting with juggle, chugging chug. Boutros. Boutros-ghali. It's legal advice. It's not legal advice. Nice ask your podcast. If legal advice is right for you. That's good. My bad sense of humor is now your problem. So sit pro tip the earth is hurtling through space. So speeding is. Nice Bosnich Torres twenty twenty. Okay. We'll see. I mean, we'll see you gets the polling who give gets sixty five thousand sign up Patriot Act on. Yeah. Nate Rex Valerie, Galloway Dragonfly dot EKO books about nature in the environment, reviews and interviews, stuff and polls Betsy DeVos is the anti Christ. Darth, Mandy, pants will deserve patron, number two thirty nine level three. 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Do kuebler. He li- Bosnich Mitchell. So what do we get the twenty five dollar patrons? Don't I, I don't know twenty five dollars patrons should get more than that. President trump. Bo is my new favorite typo. Thanks new trying to unseat. Conrad Michael since twenty fourteen in the days. And Conrad Michael's ho that's some. Yet he sits atop the legal thrown. He was the winner of got a game of thrones. He was the one. The iron the Conrad Michael's iron throne hall, right? Well, those lovely patriots brought you the show and bring you TT. Here we go. No social. This firm has ever failed the bar exam. No kidding. Thomas, a four year old child sustained serious injuries. When a playmate pushed him from behind to parked cars into the street where he was then struck by car the child by his Representative sued the driver of the car, the playmates parents and his own parents at trial. The child's total damages were determined to be a hundred thousand dollars. The playmates parents were determined to be twenty percent at fault because they had failed to adequately supervisor the driver was found to be fifty percent full and the child's own parents were determined to be thirty percent at fault for failure to adequately supervise him. The court has adopted the pure comparative negligence doctrine with joint and several liability in place of the common law rules, relating to plaintiffs fault. In addition, the common law doctrines, relating to intra family liability have been abrogated. What is the maximum amount if anything that the child's Representative can recover from the driver of the car, a thirty thousand b fifty thousand see a hundred thousand were de nothing? I love this question. This is a really difficult question. It is it is. But I'm not gay. I'm not giving sanctity of the game. Okay. My first two thoughts, by the way are wise. It kid doing his own parents for this. And Secondly why is the driver fifty percent fault? I mean, as a driver now worried like if somebody pushes somebody behind a parked car and I hit them, I'm, I'm half to blame for that. It's not right. Am I crazy, no response from Indra sanctity of the gal k fair? Okay. So I think that it seems like the key is going to be the last few cents. The court has adopted the pure comparative negligence doctrine with joint. And several liability in place of the common law rules. In addition, common law, doctrines Rilling to intra family liability have been aggregated doctrines, relating to intra family, liability. Have been abrogated. I don't I have that lasts killing me. I think what's happening here is that because of this comparative negligence pure comparative negligence doctrine that we can we don't do the? Oh, you're twenty percent. I'm thirty percent. He's whatever I think we do whoever is more at fault. Could be liable for the whole thing. That's what I think is happening. And I think the key is the parents will count as you, you know, like, that'll, I think that'll count together. So the question so here's what I think I believe it's either going to be. All or nothing. But then the drivers fifty percent of fault. At blows that analysis houses gonna work. Okay. So the basic thing would be the dry if if the drivers found to be fifty percent fault than fifty thousand. That's the basic answer. The other answer I could see would be. How'd you get thirty thousand? I don't I mean thirty percent of their own parents thirty percent fault. I don't know how you'd get that it seems like it's gotta be fifty one hundred or nothing. Two percent. I this. I don't get it. I thought I almost could've had it, but the fifty percents killing how'd they sixty percent I might have been compelled to answer one hundred thousand dollars. But if it's fifty it's exactly fifty percent. I don't I don't I don't know how that would those is impossible. So I think I can eliminate a thirty thousand I don't I don't see how you would get to the driver getting to that. Is this going to be? Or is it a weird Matheny where in a contest between? So just talking about the driver versus the child. And maybe the maybe the child and the child's parents count together because of that. Intra family liability thing. But then I'm not seeing any number that would add thirty plus. This is I this is hard. I'm going to do I go with be the obvious answer fifty thousand dollars which is fifty percent corresponding to the driver. Or do I go with nothing from some weird thing or a hundred thousand dollars from some other word thing? Like that's really do I try to take the easy route. This is the tricky question that I've ever felt like I could analyze if I thought about it enough. Like normally if it super tricky, I'm just like this is too hard, but it feels like it's within reach even though it's probably not. All right. Here's what I think I'm gonna do. I'm going to eliminate nothing because I don't think that's going to be. I'm eliminate a and d so not thirty thousand dollars. Not nothing. So we have the obvious answer fifty thousand but I think the comparative negligence thing, image, IG will somehow factor into this, so that it since the driver was more at fault, then the child and the child's parents, the therefore he could be liable as he whatever the driver could be liable for the full hundred. And since it says, what's the maximum amount if anything, I'm gonna go see one hundred? Thousand. That's my final answer that was really difficult. One I don't know. All right. And if you wanna play along with Thomas on TB had to do that, just share out, the Sepah sewed on social media include your answer, include the hashtag TB include your reasons, therefore, we will pick a winner and shower that person with never ending fame, and fortune fame and fortune not guaranteed. Right. Thanks so much for listening. It was nice to be here with you, Andrew recording. Live in persons, fun until the bar. Question was really hard buds? Okay. I'm excited in the answer. That one all right, everybody. We will see you on Tuesday. Thanks so much for listening can't wait for Tuesday's episode going to be fun. It's gonna be fun. We'll see then. This has been opening arguments with Andrew and Thomas, if you love the show and want to support future episodes, please visit our patriarch page at patriot dot com slash off. If you can't support a Spanish -ly it'd be a big help. If you could leave us a five star review on itunes, Stitcher, or whatever, podcasts delivery, vehicle, you use, and be sure to tell all your friends about it for questions, suggestions and complaints. Email us at open arguments at gmaiLcom the show notes and links on our website at WWW dot open. Argh dot com. Be sure to like our page on Facebook and on Twitter at open arcs until next. 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