228 - Nordstrom Mens
This is American fashion podcast. I'm Charles Beckwith your with Kathy Shepherdess. Hey everyone and our guest guest in the studio is vice president of men's fashion at Nordstrom Sam Lobban Hi Sam Hi. Thanks for having me sure Can you tell us a little. You Bet about menswear. Hopefully I guess what's big in men's right now. What are the topics picks. People are talking about in in the selling of world. Am I guess one of the most interesting elements for all to zoom out a little bit. Ah To the question there feels like there's a huge amount of momentum around men's right now insofar `as I one the recurring conversations is definitely the growth of men's and kind of what's going on broadly in the market. I think that's definitely reflected did in just the number of people customers interactions are happening across the difference there of of men's. I think the me that's one one of the most interesting elements is the. It's not just silos and pockets whereby you know there's a lot happening. there's really interesting innovative. I got growth opportunities rod across the Bulls really. I think that's one of the most interesting things for me. It seems like for me you who doesn't have a giant menswear perspective in the even though I'm a guy There's a lot more innovation actually showing up in stores whereas now than there has probably been since the sixties. It's just people are playing with stuff. They're putting things out there. That are innovative. Does that seem to be the case for are you or I mean you've been kind of under the hood the entire time so what's your perspective on. I guess there Oh to one degree or another intertwined so by they I mean the different elements so because there are so many there are far more guys are interested in in class than ever before and definitely in terms of style you not to mention. This guy's always been into cars. Could you have to wait lights but oh definitely from a style perspective and I think what used to be nieces with the emergence of feddie obvious obvious the Internet. That's allowed lots and lots of different people to find out about lots and lots of different niches. of the incident is there and then subsequently solve the boom of instagram. I guess a now like saw Nexgen social media platforms as well while means we see there are more guys coming through the store with a higher sense of and their own education they know what they're coming in for and they know what they wanna find this definition still by all means guys come through experience in the way in which by all salespeople are showing them product and less of looking for US looking to us for guidance from from a statistic respective by more so than ever before there are guys the have so thin out there done the research research. They're into specific brands. They're into specific aesthetics they understand the relationship between different brands and WHO's wearing wall. I think the the salt boom of like sports styles of music stars being like style icons as much as they are cultural icons Phil's data a massive shift. It was a lot of the same suits before yes and also I think menswear always moved moved much more slowly than womenswear from a trend perspective and I'm honest. I think that's still true. I still think women's is moving much faster clip. The Mend Ed but men's is moving infinitely faster. They used to so that customer segment that you just talking about comes in kind of knows what they're looking for is that is that obviously is that growing. Is it a big segment right now or is it bigger now since you're there. I'm I think it's big and growing one degree or another Farrah's the so fashion proposition is much newer to us then Asu Sup- proposition you know we've had a very strong business selling suits for decades whereas selling high fashion it's relatively so open ended term 'cause the Doggie what does high fashion main these days but that's very expensive very expensive well. I think while the nice things is not not necessarily there's like a lot of people out there doing super interesting things to one degree or another of the more affordable sky again in itself a subjective adamant. Yeah I think for us. You know we still sell lawsuits so we still have a very strong customer base. in I think what you deem the more classic kind of American I'm either a traditional men's clothing or in the classic American Sportswear said Farrah's the we are seeing a lot of growth in designer or contemporary all the brands that don't really fit into either one of those relatively the traditional kind of retailer Tom's Sir so maybe back up for a minute and talk a little bit about your how you got there and your your background show so I started in a a menswear boutique in Highschool Saint Albans which she's twenty miles north of central. London says where I grew up when I was fifteen and I was selling stuff like Paul Smith and Stern Island and Hugo boss and Amani Jeans and that Kinda Room and then when I was eighteen I go job on the show floor. Selfridge's the London based opiate national UK Apostol and then when I was in nineteen I got a job in they're buying office as an admin assistant so as I mentioned before we from from my personal perspective I've Kinda done this forever. I then joined Mr Potter in twenty seven the UK's expose group men's align business that website website launched in February twenty eleven joined in June twenty eleven so of this over early days as it were joined. Nordstrom a year ago so June lost. Did you so when they so what was your charge really when they hired you or what's where's your action. Yeah I mean because you were basically at the start art of misreport which is like the so progressive at the time yet so Jeffrey Kalinski of Jeffries New York introduced Pete Nordstrom and I every Mao I went for a breakfast with eight immediate was just a a kind of there wasn't a role of the point when I met pay was very open ended young Jeffery said I think you should make norstrom. We've been awesome so I said yes sure more than happy to and then over the course of about six months lance he an iconic developed a job description style more organically than that so I guess to start with it was more just compensation every month or so and then I think is we continued. The conversation. We developed up's a more specific job description. Incidentally the job description itself is so changed two times already since I joined so it's it's an evolving. That's fast within a year yeah. It's never evolving. I guess to your point one of the one of the things that struck struck me most about Peyton and subsequently everyone that I met from the Nordstrom team was this solve hunger to develop the the business and grow and innovate. I think in itself as a as a company they're to me and my own sort of you've objective outside of viewpoint. I mostly British writing Kinda Hudson the accent. I'm a geography and so nordstrom. One of the most interesting interesting things to me is the standing that Nordstrom has business has within like the Americans old fashioned community a large because it's not something that I necessarily grew up with Bob. Everyone that you speak to has a Nordstrom story yet seemingly to me is the everyone aid grow up with Nordstrom and I found that super super interesting in certain states I think I'd made lanes in certain states the most our on the west coast and all that kind of stuff but yes you're right in in certain states the the two things that I kept coming up against if you like was a willingness to innovate and and a the very very strong emphasis on customer service those two elements and I think in today's you covered retail landscape. Those two things are very important and it appealed to me on a personal level for like those two things really appeal to men comes of the way that I think people need to innovate and personally foolish. I mean there's just so much to respect about. Nordstrom and I just love the fact I mean I keep reading that they're kind of taking the business back also from the portion of it. That's been with investors by right. That's true but there's no official comment from perspective stories in the Mall family owned business. Basically I think is public but the family thirty Eddie issue percents of options but I think that makes I think that makes a huge difference in terms of really understanding what services all around the short short term thinking in the stock market yeah exactly right exactly which is the problem that most of the department stores have is they have shareholders and the shareholders. There's want year-over-year gains quarter over quarter gains and you can't redesign your business in flight. If you have to think about we have to do better next quarter are rather than we have to be in business. In for years. I think for me yeah Cotonou Saturday coming on how all the paper approach it and definitely the constraints the the market has on other businesses or I can say in that regard is the name all of my conversations prior to joining and subsequently joining. It's never like what project are you going to do to make this quarter. We're thinking we all thinking more long-term the nat and one of the things I look after as part of my rollers vice president of men's fashion is this new concepts which is really all platform to tell brandon product stories and for that really we're trying to make sure that we take so two boxes so snow brand milk in in components is it made people feel differently about the norstrom men's proposition and to your point about the conversations of how the notion men's men's business shows off a warm. I doing there in order to change that and then the second part is bringing in. I always say it's customer acquisition. Listen so bringing in a new customer base but there is this additional par within that of giving all current current customer base you and exciting things because we hear anecdotally from the show flaws the our customers are super engaged and they want when you saw how you know you have the collaboration that you're doing that. Keep changing right in yes so the new concepts as a platform. We Union company. Which is the concept that launched at the beginning July right yes so union. Dan is an L. A. based street wear come design aware still. They have their union. La On the Brier they have that store in Tokyo and then they have their own website originally founded in New York in nineteen thousand nine so I'm arguably the First Multibrand Street West oiled authentic. Anyone can meet East. Take the accolade confirmed but that'd be a fair argument that unions the first of that and this concept which we launched is in eight. Stolz across Nordstrom plus online studying and exclusive capture collections one hundred seventy exclusive bases. This is our fifth concepts. This one and we don't have a set cadence the each of the concepts up until this point. They've kind of been a little bit in times of timing. That's not least of all because we've been putting all these things together and building team and getting going so the first concept which which was some cold out cold. We brought together twenty performance outdoor all weather brands that was in stool for so four weeks concept zero Jose to was a partnership with deal celebrating the Spring Nineteen showers are conjoined his show also with a heavy emphasis on the Kohl's commissioned reimagining of the house insignia that was thirty two and a half months. Thud concept was a partnership with the Japanese Printing House. It's where a company called printings. JP is owned by a Japanese archives store called Lila they they have a pretty incredible all collection at by FRAPP Simmons and Helmut Lang and that put together a book featuring their favorite pieces from rap Simmons which launched the released rather last April and then this April they released the Helmet Lang Book same thing we took those two books and designed spaces which was supposed to be the books in Encana and then had the actual archive collections from the books in the stores available to buy that was a fun the personally I'm a massive radames fan. It's arguably why the full one to two thousand five show is the thing that got me kind of INSER men's design aware it is a personal kind of clay if you like that we that one and then the full concept was a partnership with Patagonia on their one where product which the first time they've ever partnered with said Pie retailer on on born where which is where they repair it offers so very with deliberately jumping jumping around uncovering lots of different elements from across the men's west both in terms of price architecture because something that's really important to US ELSA showing super interesting concepts across the men's fear across different price points. No everything is very very expensive as you mentioned before and you have rules of thumb trice architecture I hope like within customer segmentation we'd have Rosa Thumb but mostly because in the design us-based Inexpensive T. shirt is a very different thing to in the men's sports west base typically when we're thinking about the way that we can best serve our customer we segment by Stalin Aesthetic and price twenty or another and within within knows so how is this translating across How many does every Nordstrom store. Have this shop not now. It's a limited number store so the fast to concepts was into stores. The Thad was in three full full. The Fifth Union Museum is in eight so we now have a national supreme plus. All of them have custom developed our website experiences so anyone mm-hmm across the country. The world can experience new concepts through all web experience but in terms of physical locations the now in eight great and are you hiring a lot of new customers through the web. I yes we see it is we see both and I think it's dependent on the products and the concept's for example there was some product within union which which sold out on the first day and the most part of the customer came through to buy that was newsies it was from a Branko cactus plant flea market which is pretty hard to get. They don't work like a traditional brand in terms of seasons that have a very small distribution Russian list so I think that's what was driving. How would designers? They're listening to the show. Get it on. You're buying teams radar. Where where's your your team kind of looking for people. Is there a contact email for people to send you look books and that sort of thing her no explicitly believe be honest doesn't would love that open day no small around of designers kind of slide into my hands. I get lots of instagram messages and I try and make it my job hope to see as much as I possibly can. Once upon a time I would have said see everything I'll be honest these days that's becoming increasingly difficult to genuinely you in the see everything but we see as much as we possibly can and we have a number of different teams to the point of segmentation so typically you know at least from my perspective happens is people gain touch me and then. I put me in touch with the right buyers but we all super super open open to seeing as much as we possibly can so with very welcome of people getting into option shoving stuff. What kind of brands pens are you looking to introduce into the store. What what's what's missing in the magic right now. That's a super interesting question. Among the comes up up quite a lot. I get a lot of people that get in touch with me through. They kind of get my mouth overlook. I mentioned through things like instagram. I'm not I have two young kids at Haimes mom null out on social media that Moscow the if you look amazing grams mostly pitches of our two kids I ah but by no means all reply to people the do get in touch and one of the recurring questions is like what makes enticing Brian. Thanks impaling appealing brand. I think for me there's two ways of altering that question. One is because of the earlier uh oh earliest my earlier point around customers all fall more willing to do the research themselves now than ever before so they kind of coming into stores with I would argue more so presupposed knowledge of what they wanNA find from a brand product perspective than it drives me crazy if I if brand says I'm in the store and then you go to the store and they don't have the product or they have like two you of thirty skews why yeah and that's a that's a roofing and that's a real consideration. I guess that's that's the beauty of wall wall so a lot of very well positioned logbooks based heist embody till they stuff to have done on and then of course instagram bio means so because brands can communicate and connect with and bills their own customer base. I wouldn't say why more easily but way more effectively than ever before previously you essentially had had to produce a collection you shoot your book and then you would handoff these things to magazines and retailers in the magazine would be the the communication pace in the retail would be the retail space although a decent wholesale network acts like a mocking communications tool as much or at least in a slightly different way to magazine is horrible would now it's a bit different because the brands could produce. I find take better imagery and any other photography phone thing but that's just an offense hikes better imagery imagery than ever before so the the means to producing super interesting brand collateral there in people's hands and there were huge huge amount brands already taking advantage of that and putting them message out into the world and communicating with customers under one degree or another you know if you want to use news instagram messaging or any kind of social media direct messaging you can interact with a customer and then sell them for as well so all of that said the reason. I mention it in relationship to that. Question is one degree or another. We're with looking for people that are doing really interesting. Innovative imitative products propositions out their own idea of of how guys can dress on top of that. I think there's also so is that about storytelling. They're good at telling a story with clothing and then the way they image broadly speaking. Yes I think so I think monkeying from a brand proposition in is more important than ever has been and dog it as a decent conversation to be had of of how much is products first and foremost the most important thing and how much she's mocking the first full my most important thing. I think different parts of the men's industry it means different things so I don't think there's a golden rule but I would say it's definitely an important one conversation in an interesting one where I was going previously as the one of the things that I took two people to get in touch with me. Directly is the retailers are more more looking for brands are out there so developing their own preloaded customer base the people that are hungry and looking for the prox- and then at that point kind of jumping on board and engaging with the customer Don't get me wrong there. We're all still people producing amazing product that no one's ever seen waste scarring the market for that stuff as well the at the same time. I am from a broader commercial perspective. We're also looking people that are really engaging and building that community outside of just the retail the the wholesale relationship okay so that's that's discovery technology. What about customer service and Technology Water. What are you playing within that area. That's kind of changing the game in terms of the customer experience and actually just on that also customer experience. We always think of our I always think of is really focused on women. Are you finding that men are also as interested in that level of service or starting to yes ensure the I think for customer experience and service proposition two elements to that as you mentioned the the storytelling element lemon of if a guy has taken the trouble to go to a store when he could have been on his couch and looking through his fire on a website yeah. That's Kinda. Give them a reason to be there and that's one of the things that we're trying to do through. New concepts is take already. Hopefully what we consider interesting interesting and compelling brand products. Maybe not that's all story and message us. I know that toll because the printings alkai Simmons Helmut Lang things it's kind of brand message but kind of an awkward story so you take these hopefully very compelling Brian products stories and present them in a massive physical build out spaces with people on the spices who really know the story and no the in the background as to why we're working with these brands and products and communicate that message and then you couple that with kind of a website custom bill L. and each one has a spoke mocking strategy so we're trying to think about these things from three hundred sixty degree hellenistic perspective effective. How a consumer. Will anyone might interact with the spaces that element from an experiential perspective. I think we'll interests me. Most most month things I find interesting about like the Nordstrom proposition where we have a customer that wants to engage on that level and then we have a guy that just wants to buy some socks and that's all about speed and ease so there's a number of different mechanics for us one one of which is like buy online pickup still which seems like a super simple easy saying but to your point around if a brand says that they're stoked certain store then you type at the store in there if you take that idea down to I really need a white shirt because I've gone event tonight. You could even traipse around lots of different different stores and try and find a white shirt getting more and more stressed out in the hundred degree ninety percent humidity. Oh you could jump on your phone and and I know that they stop brought in that store order and then just run by and pick you up and all of a sudden it becomes seamless kind of service proposition thing so your point what about guys interesting on that level very much so because that's how I was like I want to be mass exactly tackling. NOPE JUST WANNA move. Yeah I think for me. One of the other things is the a single customer will shop across all of these different platforms like I don solely shock in one specific way. I'm not exclusively someone that shops from my phone or from out Lapshov it's up. It's like if I if I know I wanNA buy something buy. Marine I will peruse through stores and kind of John. I think that one of the reasons since that we really wanted to watch with Chris Gibbs Union and the Chapter Irons Union Nella is the main. He has a really interesting. Take on Tom Style so his store on other things as the most the me. The most special about his stories is very much. Chris is perspective on not necessarily telling us how they should dress but just offering up a lot of product which he thinks is super core people that engage with a news in their own some kind of way. I think specialty retailers are still super important in the market because that's really what is a specialty soul. It's individuals viewpoint on style. A Mutt we try and do through all so men's fashion offering is to one degree or another bring that same a sentiment to a department store saying that in itself as style of service because if you are going to solve peruse peruse through a stool for an hour than you want to be giving people interesting stuff to look at because they've bullets come out and still at the same time if they're just looking to by either commodity product or they just know the thing that actually one you want to try and make that as seamless as possible so either these people on the show that really now now they're stuck in that position that kind of Iran to business owners and their whatever that all you can buy online pickup in stole oil nine in have it sent to your store have online product that sent to your home. You can return in still because you walk three blocks around the corner from the stool trying to make the processes a sameness as possible as a customized indirect. You'll business however they want to interact with the business. You know so saying right. There's only three ways to interact with us and that's right so the fifty seven th street store. It feels like luxury but it's really relaxed I think and somehow you know you you want to navigate through the whole store or I do when I'm with a a friend so I think rolling out a concept like that is really and having it really work is is a challenge. So what are you finding to be the biggest challenges as you've rolled out or the secrets to really making it work aside from assuming you merchandise is it the same level of impact and interest so for us. The fifty seven street store in New York is a facets first full line store in the city and secondly. It's August men's only store anyway so that gives us squad few outings as I'm sure you can imagine. Where did you come in at the point of deploying that store because you have that store opened April last year. I joined in June okay so we came in after it open. I'd also for US know. Nordstrom mm-hmm is the same as another Nordstrom. Each one is unique that one moreso because the reasons I just mentioned the New York is already full. Line stores are only men stole. It's also a forty five thousand square foot split across three foals whereas we have still we have men's businesses suspect of different styles at different flaws in in other schools but by and large it's very different makeup so others so Farrah's office office itself some office interesting testing insofar as customer flow. How'd you marry up different product segments of our offer and how does that engage with the customer. There's also it's all biggest footprint for new concepts but level so a lot of our souls true service proposition while I'm pick-up install alterations old is kind of things we have those through the fleet because of the makeup of that stool. They're just engaged with inundate very different way for us. There's elements that we are learning. We don't explicitly trying to learn from that store and enroll our across the fleet everything that we learn in that store because it is a unique store at the same hi there is a lot of that testing in there and we are learning elsewhere so I don't think there's a clear up. Explicit Bliss said this is what we're doing here and then Brian. It's going to be one hundred and twenty stools tomorrow. I think also what's fresh is. There's you know suiting. They are but it's Mitt. You know. It doesn't stand out as like here's that I think there is a me. I remember seeing Hugo boss and yet there's a lot of time having a tremendous amount of fabulous sneakers and shoes I can that's that's the thing for us. The I would hope that that stole shows the most is I guess where we're heading with a men's division insofar as titling still very important so all business both because all customer once and also does well for us but there's no denying that there is a kind of mass casualization especially in the US. I think the lines are more blood between weekend can't wear and week where than ever before and to me that stole reflects. Bat Bat casualization show that suits in there if you WANNA come in and why itself a suit we've got for abroad offer and I would hope that we'd it'd be out to cover. Most guys needs in that space but oh so it's not forty five thousand square officers. There's a deal of space in there. There's a lot of eight genes. We have a very wide offer of sneakers from Nike Lab of limited edition releases through to Converse Chuck Taylors through to Lindsey Aga trip so a hope is that whilst we don't necessarily trying to be all things to all men which is trying to offer affect Steve on current men's style and and how we hype norstrom customers drop them. I'm wondering how you think about your teams in terms of buying lying and merchandising how'd you define those roles in your team from the storm so the team the the the teams that by an plan for that store a national we much like we tear out all all stoles Insana of revenue locale into of whether situated across the country entry from a customer perspective. We apply the same logics so the new store so it's not totally alien to our thinking about other businesses from a strict merchandising standpoint. They're all things that we're testing in that store. I guess more aggressively than elsewhere but not necessarily exclusively side. There's a poll of stores where AH customer allows us to push things a bit thavernous foster so it's still the same national well. I guess in what I'm asking is how do you define the role of a buyer and what they're supposed to do and how do you define the role of a merchandiser and what they're supposed post do and and how do you expect them to interact as as as individual people who who operate in those spaces are they usually separate well. Let's also Permi- question yes. They usually set up they but it's to me it's it's two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other and it should be a very very healthy relationship between the two is it because there's such a workload that needs to be two different people. I think they do different things things and they bring two different. Pause to the same conversation in my heads. The the by should be pushing was was the conversation from a product perspective and that's very relative to the department that they work on the it's still the same logic slyke right. We sell an awful lot of navy thuban suits. I found this amazing new brand. The authors of different take on that site. We use a very straightforward example or at the other end of the scale and the deal showers the shower of the season. We should be pushing that as far as we can. It's the merchandises responsibility in a job in that conversation to be balancing the how against kind of empirical dyson knowing where we've been oh that puts a merchant in a data role yes so essentially that's as opposed to predictive. Yes slash combined data roll. Yeah the the buyer is the radar and the merchant is the analyst to one degree or another yes nor exclusively side because is com shouldn't have a buyer who doesn't have a depreciation off their own data and they are in general at the same sometime the much. I guess to me the margin is more exclusively into the data the necessarily into a product division again on a product level but I think it still really important. The A merchandiser has an amount of vision from customer landscape landscape perspective under another. It's the job of the by. It's a seller so they're much partner in making sure that relationships Diana Diane balanced but you do you want a plan or a much is to really be buying down the hatches of the kind of where we've been and the analytical side of the business to counterbalance where the buyer sykes business and how much do those people talk to to the sales people that are on the floor a huge amount okay yeah and it's definitely something the possibly I guess I'm very a pro because for me as a business and also personally we try and think of everything through a customer end of how customers going to interact with the products the experience the service everything that we're doing really like any idea comes up typically. I try and we'll get through actual customer. How's it going already experienced that what's going to happen. Has He gonNa what's IT GONNA look like when he tries on that Jack Agatha GonNa across anything to do with what we do have resigned. We re do try them. Make up stories. I get laughed at by some of some of the stories we make up but nonetheless something we really believe in it. I think is really important and of course like true experience. Anecdotal feedback from that comes from the show floor is the guys and girls on the frontline but really interacting practice with the customer so I'm whatever I go through any store. I can go through New York an awful lot like to as many of the other stores I can. It's really the anecdotal fe by. I'm mostly looking for because I find it super interesting especially for guys because if one guy ally experienced it like that the free safe bed the ten of us were feeling the same way but after a while your filter tells you you know you've heard the same thing over and over exile exile. You've heard it in a different in a different way and don't you think that that is as important as data or I mean just to very is kind of what we're losing a bit yeah. It's the marriage of like data and anecdotal feedback. That's what we try and walk around the most and try and build up as much of a real picture of any strategy that we're coming up with your point. Actually I'm always really interested to hear if if it is the same title feedback over again as in hearing again again dozen booming just means that okay we're roughly in the same wing or a few times yeah it's when something comes completely left field and you had all of it all that's when Harry so nordstrom's has rent the runway or they may own it or uh no okay. There's a New Partnership Okay Partnership so here's my question I I know that rent the runway doesn't do menswear and I have just heard actually that Scotch and soda is going to start to do rental code for men. What do you think about that. I mean what's your take on on rental. Not Justice not necessarily for Nordstrom your opinion the I think there there's two interesting shifts and shifts makes his just happened and I think that's true. I think he's been gone for a while and I think as the kind of the rent so proposition in the market and then the resale platform position so I guess what people like Brent the runway doing is ends of offering a subscription model so that you can rent products monthly and then also what Ebay started. I guess audibly. They are the star of a resale platform. ALMANAC will people like grilled of taken onto bay or even able from Gen Z. Perspective the me that to really interesting kind of future looking elements of long. Everyone does I think in terms of the way that we consume conduct. I think definitely the the resell elements while those things that at least from a high fashioned perspective started as a niche position I was buying and selling stuff on on Ebay pumper e like early phase which I may not two thousand sixty two thousand seven point because I was super into brass him in products and it was hard to get hold of so it was really kind of community based of trying to we get to know he bicycles because they had stuff at the same time kind of recycling product because by ever I wanted whatever time so supersonic thing. That's become just much more roles. One of the interesting things amazed the way the guys and girls same to use these things in different ways because the resale sneaker culture is huge admendments. It's not as big in women's a maybe that's because two underwear another hours draw a parallel between the women's handbag. Mo- that means to a female consumer N- guys sneakers specifically to one degree or another a fashion cultures consumer that kind of goose to one another and the rent the runway slash kind of rental economy. I think it's super interesting and I think the if feels like a wii the is it the the social responsibility component it's kind of undeniable in that in terms of not just putting products out into the the Isa but but you really are I mean at a certain point. You're producing more clothing for for an an appetite title. Just can't be satisfied. Yeah ultimately exposes the thirty copies of Braveheart on the shelf in blockbuster eventually. They're only gonNA have to in that store and the rest of the guys on the trash yet and ultimately exist in a capitalist framework so yes useful. Is You got away from that. I think we'll have to see where it goes but it feels super interesting and I I guess to wander everything on. I wish kind of drooled points back to this. I think there's no with the market getting bigger and bigger because the information is more and more accessible so anyone can get into this stuff if they won't do now. I used to be very high barriers to entry with the incident. That's not the case and that's the the information you couldn't get fashion. Information in small towns exactly yeah and that's true of I mean I think every if you're into anything is basically true of that the because it's information source of didn't exist before the. I don't think there's a harmful Schrool that one thing is necessary. Are you gonNA take over anything. Else is always going to be customers the operating a traditional model of a guy into a shop. I buy something like high wear it. I wear it until I stopped wearing it and then do something with it but I think it it feels like it feels like concepts been proven will actually doing very very well and actually I mean what they were saying. with regards to rent the runway is that they're selling. They're selling higher fashion pieces things that people would normally invest in because they're more expensive or they're too special so it is kind of interesting yeah terms of maybe how you could use it to integrate doesn't the accessibility and make it less special. No I mean if you wear you know buying a dress with a big hole in the back or something you know just or some fantastic piece that you might not invest in suddenly rented and you see. Oh my God. This makes me feel fabulous. Anyone might just be more prone to then start spending more money the next time on your own as opposed to renting because you want to own it. I don't know it could have good implications. I think I don't know about sneaker. sprinting shoes shoes them know that. I can't go there. At least you know the liner. Don't necessarily might Arab expertise. I don't have have a huge matt history in that space but it does strike me at least to where we are today. In the broad conversation the the rental proposition seems to have been the mortgage up to the women's market for one reason or another. I am not involved is businesses but the reason I guess I draw the parallel towards will the Resell Zell businesses is that feels the men's on that they feel like similar ideas on directly comparable but it feels like they all kind of the the men's and women's of annoy exclusively sorry by any means but so what did you think of this spring shows even given political climate like around the world to what did you see that come out in particular raised the I don't necessarily know if reading show notes post shows there was a literal back towards the tension and the fact that tottering wondering was back on the runway and what does that mean. I tend to know kind of get into stuff like that. I don't get instant compensation. Necessarily parallels that because ultimately to me street street wear had been such a prominent feature and so many of the realm as for so long had been some variation of very casual fashion the if out like we're going to see some kind of ideas of of what tailoring might mean going forwards and then we did across US older round shays shows almost without exception that was some take on traditional ideas of titling an I guess the me the most interesting element that was the it wasn't just wasn't the traditional brush several Rove three-piece suiting. I was leaving traditional Italian Santa Ring for the most part. It was at least from a runway perspective. It felt like the Zionist China's with thinking about that was going to be a tend towards a clean a multicolored aesthetic house they guy in that world in that Ed brand aesthetic in interact with that the it will him John's did a deal someone like Matthew Williams did with a leaks wchs all the tailoring elements the came from off white. It was still those components but very very different takes Exxon on what that might mean in reality that I found interesting because there was still yes for me so you know I'm there professionally right so I'm sat as a retailer thinking. Okay well the stuff we're. GonNa sell ultimately. That's kind of my job and they felt like a really strong balance. Between commercial proposition and new ideas on ways to push was the conversation of a made us a ways like that's what you want to see from a a runway season new competing ideas and then some stuff that you know most guys are into the designer. West Spicer GonNA WANNA buy into so there was still easy in easy swear and the Obama Jackie some fairly straightforward Jane's that but at the same time that a compelling new ideas by Vin Times of Colorado and fabrication so I thought it was a really strong season I thought it was also interesting so me this was the there's been that conversation for a few years about the merging urging either the buy now wear it now sorry see now by now. I'm conversation of which happened a while back with break CETERA and at the same same time as that was happening that was the merger of the men's and women's shows show so Joel Gender Shies. We're speaking honestly ends up. Being a women showers amends looks yeah. That's kind of yeah so what ends up being the vibe not. Oh always the case. There's people that balance it really well. I think Fuji's a fatty good example of balancing between men's women's but that's because boating speaking our Sandra McKay's collections are pretty gender fluid right and similarly with something like Yoga. It's there's usually a pre defined element of what's in the women's collection wall sits in the men's but it's a single acetic or single proposition this I was I think the investment the like sensitive. LVMH interview first standalone Selena was going Louis Tone on the Adrabbuh direction deal with Kim Jones they felt big powerful men's statements from Eke powerful brands who haven't always been thought of as big powerful bench brands as almost have been amends. The big powerful brands leading men's proposition is so it's a have that kind of energy within the men's space as well. It's purity. Take again really yeah. I think just big statements kind of those big houses that have a lot of marketing dollars radi eighty investing in men's a time when everyone is talking about men's is such a big growth opportunity and more guys are interested in style than ever before oh it will feels like there's a lot of energy. I think around them in space and for me. The men shows so violence. Stop US it was like there was a lot of energy and then it fell a bit flat was the other's energy and there was some amazing shows so you were. We're asking before Charles. you know how it brands. Have you see them but are are you. Are you looking at brands that are digitally native browns and maybe thinking of collaborating with them yes but more because we're trying to look everywhere right so it's still to the immense. I guess to the previous conversation of now brands rid can build their turn community without needing to engage with a house Alpa. I'd say not needing to insulate or in the politics but he really is a conscious decision this point. You know it's not like inevitably. You'RE GONNA have to do that. People could make the choice to Saddam I think it now becomes a strategic conversation of what is that retailer or much like the brands built their own community in there are an kind of customer network retailers have that as well we're a hundred zero business the pride itself on hopefully engaging and interacting with our customers in the best way that we can so there's a lot of trust in the market in that suffers position and more stansell and I guess all hope is the brands the develop their own community in a digitally native space. You see it upside in addition me what I mean. I guess I think of that is just really interacting choosing a place to interact with and not just opening ending up whole wholesale business in I mean because they respect you as a brand store interesting. I guess the so me one of the interesting things in that is there's the the direct to consumer brands like an Uber or Lord Evelyn souls the big really get into to that bucket but also I think what people like Joe Blow off why Org Jared Renzo with fear of God or to one degree or another Mike Amiri with a Mary they don't get full solve in that direct consumer brands mealtimes and all who had house our networks but they definitely in that space where they up a community an following outside of the traditional kind of luxury house motto and again. It's one of other things that I find the most exciting about what's going on in the men's fear right now. Is this a low energy around the traditional Paul of the business love energy around new who completely innovative sinking from like Silicon Valley perspective and then kind of guys in the middle solve stating the ideas from whoever they can dan and complete coming up with their own as well on a on a products and brand perspective but in terms of like how they take this really unique brand proposition and get that out into the market. It's it's super excited. I think yes that's great time. What do you think about the different fashion weeks right. Now is one of the fashion weeks kind of leading where you buy from. I'm I'm thinking Paris has become a serious leader more than the others right now. it's hard to a if you if we if you're talking citations than yes from fashion proposition is more going on in Paris. There is an it's not to the there isn't stuff going on in Milan but I think it would be decided is kind of even if you look at the schedule says it sign story but still also that who she still showing dominate in Milan and progress showing dominantly Milan so but it's more the the classic menswear spice still feels like it's rooted in in Florida Send Milan and then the true fashion capital F. fills like it's rooted in Harris in saying that though is still some really eighty innovative things happening in London so Stephanie from amend London saying from a men's perspective facial and then and cry grains doing there is really interesting. I think we'll guide KIKOKO. Stop Nov is doing there is really interesting again again. It's kind of like it's it's more having more having God more. I guess has been so what is New York in that AH sphere what what does New York represent within the personalities of the different fashion weeks in trade shows. I think what's going to be really interesting. Interesting to see is wet. Tom Ford takes the new space because at least from a men's perspective like I think well the FBI is don more broadly with like New York men's which seems to have been an evolving at I liked it. They're finally in line with the other men's fashion weeks around the world so there's for men's fashion weeks back to back in. It's not off on its own yet. That makes me into the women's yeah to me as well. I think I guess the thing for me with New York. Specifically is the video to find a groove in terms of this balance between commercial and fashion proposition which I think is always been the thing of for men's in in New York in the US women's seems to have I'm not a women's expert or specialist but there were it felt like it kind of found quite easy to find his feet in balancing those two propositions and that's any of the big weeks needs the needs of these major designer moments than it needs kind of new interesting ideas and stuff that sits in between those two things. I think you were with the men spice. I guess that's why I say I'm interested. Saiwal Tomfool does now that he's enroll there is because he does men's a women's his whole brand proposition is men's women's so I think his take on it. Versus previous will be considerably different from because I'm no again in those conversations by any means but you would imagine the balance between men's and women's is going to be considerably different. I guess the interesting thing will be to see what happens insofar as take as keeping new compelling interesting ideas come from the American fashion landscape and keeping them here from a marketing promotional perspective because like especially a menswear. I- globally a huge amount of current trend and it's not like this season yeah the Las X. number of years. They're American rooted ideas like the whole streetlife. Nominee is an American idea yeah St Mary's from It's an urban culture American idea yet the show you know I'm much like it. POPs buff place he audibly straight westbound place with neo city with having he's under strong seeing etc etc the I guess we'll be interesting to see what happens in terms of communicating American born American made so fashion proposition ideas and showing them hair and keeping them here in in if that is indeed dave the strategy say there's not a lot of made in USA any American department store. You Walk in you look for men. USA and it's just not there or it's it's very hard to find which I find frustrating but you mean the actual garments being being yeah the garments they're available on the floor there's not a lot of made in USA and that seems to be a choice and maybe it's you know by percent more expensive choice well. I think the problem is it's off five percent. The more expensive choices like fifty to one hundred percent percent captain's choice the consumer still pay for it. I think going back to the segmentation piece. It depends on what it is sure I think there's a decent number of also depends on if your will wipe the brand proposition on where is made because is at least in my own experience like we'll catch loaded in sir. We'll customers pay for at least the way the I read it or here is the like do consumers care typically than like guest directly coupled with like all of the political caloms the guy with that in my experience. The guy that really cares about something's made is carrying about it because of some kind of like heritage style. I in America made salvage Dennen and whether it's real yeah yeah 'cause also if stuff's made in Italian tottering made it Elliott because it's Italian teetering and how it works etc and then the guy is buying like a fashion proposition is buying it mostly because of the style and aesthetic not necessarily all those real element as you mentioned and so then it becomes a bit Abou- price and product and really will be looks like I guess the things things the I think what people like Jared Renzo and Mike Amiri and a number of the other kind of American fashion designers from that set of done the super interesting is build that into their that brand and their product proposition and it's an integral part of what they it do whether or not lay then Malcolm Ed is a big by made in USA story. You know like mock doc. Mary has a sixty person Italian making jeans in downtown. La which he did that because he couldn't find anywhere else to make the part that he wanted to make for me. That's it's a kind of a perfect story of made in USA. How much do you think about Los Angeles San Francisco Portland in terms of of sourcing products as for the stores throws it really comes back down to the the brand and the product Bravo the necessarily necessarily it's it's something that we will always bury mind and as a customer the looks for asks for it and we WANNA be able to serve serve that customer but really first and foremost with thinking about the broader up brand proposition the price proposition how it fits since our overall assortment Bravo the necessarily just hunting down because it was made in one of those markets but I think it's you know. Who did we interview? It was American giant your Yep So bayard winthrop so he built built his whole brand based on you know it with the whole price value and part of the big big part of the equation was the fact that it was made in the US us so I think if you can right I mean he's doing phenomenally. It's also on a casual level grid where they own the cotton fields and all the way up but it might it's harder. I think for companies that are also established to turn around and now start being more made in USA and you can't really focus on that unless you're one hundred percent sterling ruby us yeah by style. I not show like a imagine. His elements are not sure whether or the price point. I think it is that I I'm an on another guys. They're one hundred percent sure of everything that we don't looking so yeah yeah. It's an important conversation. I think it's a Pov. A broader comes Asian what's coming up for the store here Ernie Oregon for Nordstrom men's and drawn general. What's your future. Look like what are you hoping for well in. New York specifically were about to open our women's towels. Dole wait so forth welcomed October whereas in the city it's across the street so huge. It's fifty seven umbrella by between fifty seven fifty eight directly across from Kathy's excited. It's like three hundred hundred thousand square feet yeah a little over. I think so we do things together with women's yes this stuff that we're talking about rain. it's very much you know one team a Nordstrom side of the people the bottle the women's divisions of old son and and you're based here on by stare I knew how much of your team for Nordstrom is based here not many proportionately Seattle's definitely HQ and also for my specific team that much bigots even Seattle than in. You'll get there about once a month of the moment. I'm flying tomorrow morning in the so that's like a massive thing for us in New York specifically. I think we're also happening. in September timber to norstrom local stores to the SMO- full master's weather's died productivity there so savage hubs and I guess that's going to be super excited. So what does that mean. What does the service hub so much like. I mentioned before about buy via online. Pick up in store. You can have your products sent to a Nordstrom local store. This is going to be one on the appre side and wanting the West village and you can do alterations yes so there's situations in there as well. seems like a funny spot on Third Avenue mm-hmm yet. We have a the New York of Great. MLK has always been very very strong online market versus. I am accent so we were able to look up since you heat map of where all businesses in the city and where we feel a lot we might be able to serve customers outside of the physical. The full line stores that rubbing and have already opened for for men so it's kind of in line with that the men's last year women's opening October the to Nordstrom locals as well I for me. It feels like a very big league total malkin proposition robin. We don't just start being a big department store uptown as kind of a law going going on across the board for the neo market specifically and all of that. I think you know we're very happy with the men stole and how it's going and we're learning a lot from all of that. Energy annoys is just gonNA. It's GONNA blow up. make it bigger. Hopefully things crossed. seems like a fair assumption shouldn't that. I think there's five or six restaurants going to be I believe five six secs six very exciting signing yeah so that good exciting age of all concepts with new concepts they now kind of in a rough two month cadence knol aw that's not fixed so sometimes it might be a little bit different but those kind of keep coming. We call actually talk about the next one yeah unfortunately Bah aw hopefully people cannot continue to check the outcast seemingly gang a super strong response from people who do so. That's quite exciting in the men's space sounds Great Sam. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me Thank you for listening to American fashion. podcast a weekly look under the hood of the fashion business yes and yes. The oil is leaking and yes. It's possible we have no brakes to get on the guest list for our live events. Go to American fashion PODCAST DOT COM and look for the live shows link at least continue the conversation from the show on social media on twitter. WE'RE AT AF P. O. D. and on Instagram we're at American fashion show and I personally am at fashion tech. I do roop on just about everything I meet people all the time. We're so excited to hear about this show. A lot of people have heard about it but not everybody not enough. People know this show exists. We need your help to spread the word. Please do so if you'd like to be a guest on the show. There's a guest form on the American fashion PODCAST DOT com website but it helps if you've already started discussion with us through social media for direct comments. voicemail line is six four six nine seven nine eight seven zero nine or email us info at American fashion podcast. Dot Com American fashion podcast is produced by Mouth Media Network which holds the copyright to this and other episodes of the series areas. All rights reserved subsist friends. Keep making things beautiful remain in force. I'm Charles Beckwith and we'll talk to you again next week in this is mouth media network audio for business.