Clippers Gonna Clip, Nuggets Kill Them With Joy, and Bam Goes the Dynamite with Ben Golliver | Group Chat
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Am Justin Barrier and joining me today Jonathan Sharks what's up, Guys Rob Mahoney Elo and the bubble boy himself straight from Orlando from his hotel room, which she hasn't left in weeks and weeks and weeks from the Washington Post Bengal over. It's great to be here. I see how you adjust and it's like a sunrise edition of the clippers choked. We just have to get the takes office as possible as. Absolutely. The fans get what they want, what they want is talking about a disaster it o'clock in the morning. We're going to get to the game that was played last night between the Celtics in the which I thought was going to be an all timer, but it was quickly trump's. High The Los, Angeles Clippers, they lost one afford eighty nine in game seven I'm I'm still pretty stunned about this. Then you're there last night what was like? Can you just give us like the scene what it was like after that buzzer finally sounded well. So this is going to be a very dangerous take as I'm on here with three of the brightest basketball minds of all time, and I'm about to go full Jim Boylan on you. But I really think that this game in this series just kind of came down to like who wanted more and I think. Really, you can't separate encore and off court when it comes to the bubble because if you win that game, you're signing up for another roughly two weeks of life in the bubble and you heard from Lou Williams after the game where he's just kind of frustrated and he's counting the number of days it's been since he's seen his daughters right and. You've got you know Paul George. Trying to wrap his mind around the end of the season. He even know if it was a championship or bus season and you just see this team that's just like really scatter brained off the court looking overwhelmed by the moment. Obviously, you had some pretty serious situations for Lou Williams in Mantras Herald during their time in. A bubble where they had to leave and come back and I think that was absolutely a contributing factor to the clippers lack of chemistry. But all of that awkward stuff it transferred directly on the court everybody from both teams set it. You know it was there was no question who had the better on court chemistry it was no question who was. Fighting harder late in these games to pull out the victories who was executing better during the pressure moments and I actually pin it frankly You know the clipper side of things I put it on their superstar level players. I didn't think there was gonna be a situation we were. We're GONNA come out of these playoffs and say you know what? Leonard you let everybody down I thought it was going to be more well, Paul George didn't step up or maybe they could figure out the pecking order stuff and there was only one ball to go around for so many guys. But I think ultimately when they look back on their experience and I think about their two months here, quite Leonard never seemed to really enjoy himself Lebron did a lot of complaining earlier, but he's started to settle in. Get into a groove his wife's here. He feels comfortable with the clippers they just kinda felt on edge I think it expressed itself with all the trash talk they did to the Portland Trailblazers and to Luca and to Nikolay Yokich, and by the end of it, I would be surprised at all. If they're kinda relieved, they're going home at this point we'll. That's interesting though because you're there and we're projecting onto a lot of these guys that maybe. The. Bubble was having effect. Maybe some of this family stuff at home for some of these clippers geyser are affecting how they're playing. Can you see a noticeable difference between how like some of the clippers are operating in like maybe another team that's thriving like the heat I've actually thought about making the team that actually liked the bubble because it's a real thing like don't think this is just a a talking point right? Every morning I have to. Wake up and I've gotTA, take my temperature. I've got to take my pulse ox reading I've got to go get tested. I've got to make sure I'm wearing a mask I've got to go eat pretty lonely breakfast I've gotTa make sure I'm wearing my credential I've got to make sure I'm wearing this auxiliary alarm bells start beeping if I get too close to people and none of these things individually sound that annoying but when you do it every single. Day and when you're the players and you've got to hop on the bus every single day, you've got to go back to your hotel and shower in your hotel room rather than at the arena. So you're all sticky for forty five minutes and you've got to answer questions on these weird zoom calls all of it is a pretty annoying experience and so if I was going to rank the teams I, don't think anyone hated the bubble more than. The seventy sixers I'm pretty sure that had fifteen private private jets just lined up ready to take them out of here right But when you look at the Eastern Conference, there's no question to me the two teams that settled in and we're happy in the bubble more than any other teams were Miami and Boston I think that they've just taken a slow and steady day by day disciplined approach it kind of fits again with their on-court character and You know you look at some of these favorites that have gone home early whether it's Milwaukee or the clippers neither one of those teams seemed particularly comfortable and there were red flags showing actually early in their bubble play you go back to the seating games Milwaukee really couldn't finish games. They weren't. I'm reaching top speed for their offense. They weren't You know clicking chemistry wise around Janas is particularly well and same deal with the clippers shot. Out guys like Reggie Jackson and joking Noah if those guys aren't red flags playing big minutes for your team early on I don't know what is so I think for for both those teams the the lack of comfort in the bubble combined with just some of these variables off court that we're talking about I think it contributed to their early exits and I gotTa say if that's going full Boylan. Jimbo Slava job like that was actually pretty reasonable can't. Well. Just I was just worried what I said you know who wants it more right it does seem kind of like I'm about to put a punch clock on this podcast or something like that. You know but. Ultimately, will is a major deciding factor. No I mean I think that's kind of the question of the clippers. This entire season it's maybe you could write this off to how things have gone down in the bubble like prepared they were for this unique situation but we've seen this all season long. They didn't really play up to their talent level didn't really seem like they were always on the same page and so in a lot of ways maybe. This is like a an outlier situation but maybe this is ultimately what was going to happen regardless juicy last night I thought it was weird that you know to Ben's point nobody on the clippers was blameless in this like it really did start with Colli with you know you could go even with doc you could go pretty much all up and down the roster and everyone's screwed up in some pretty significant. Way and. Then that just all kinds of compounding problems do bad offensive process which led to you know an unstable instable defense, which then led to just a complete disaster and you know I was looking at the numbers and for context over these last three games, the nuggets scored about one hundred, fifteen points for one hundred possessions. The Mavericks this season scored about that and had the highest offensive rating of all time. So. That's the level we're talking about of a defense that has that has Paul. George that has pat Beverley. Yes. That also has Llewellyn mantras heroin these other lesser defenders but just that they they were scrambling and panicked. So often against Nickel Yokich Jamal? Murray two guys who are really good. But I didn't expect to have the clippers this far off balance. Okay. I think you can connect these two ideas like this. Coup, why not being a quote unquote leader you can see it in the court because it makes guys like Lou Williams and Doc rivers. So valuable right because like when the bubble thing happened when the strike it was Lou Williams tongue with the clippers you're GONNA do not Kawhi right for the Lakers that was Lebron. And conversely it was doc rivers is kind of how the data on the team. What that means is it now that makes Lou Williams and Doc rivers very valuable to Kawai and away those guys wouldn't be Lebron, and now co is kind of held hostage Susan's those two guys make on his team because they leadership for him and to me like watching the series. How can you play Mantras Herro? Yokich. Here's the thing if you're going to double the coal Yokich, the best passing of all time anyways at that point, why not go small and spread them on an offense if you're going to play a guy can't guard Yokich and can't score on him you're cooked. That's he was just mind boggling kept doing it over and over and over again in these games. So. So you put the blame more on dock than some of these superstars who didn't show up Qui- and Paul George Combine were ten for thirty eight. I don't know if you heard that yet. But what I'm saying is like, why not being a leader makes him vulnerable to Dock Making Poor coaching decisions? It's all connected germ I think you could frame this box score and PUT IT in show call fame I. Mean I really jumped out to me not only just the field goal percentages from Hawaii and from Paul George but the lack of free throw attempts right and DOC was trying to get at this actually kind of put some of the blame on his players and saying, Hey, this is a conditioning issue had to continually said these guys. Out, but the stat that jumped out to me one combined free throw for Paul, George and Kawhi Leonard and something like eighty to combine minutes at there on the court. Now, obviously, a lot of those minutes are together but that's completely unacceptable. They both wind up being like minus twenty minus twenty one in the minutes on the court and you're in that frantic mode where. Let's say you're Leonard and you've been listening to doc and you believe everything. But now you're in the fourth quarter and here the nuggets go again right and you're looking around and saying, do I really trust lemon pepper Lou or do I trust myself? The reigning finals. MVP to like take this game over right and I could not get to the basket I. Don't know if it's his leg I don't know if it's just his general fatigue accumulation. Mentality he did look shook at times during the bubble, and by the way he made a lot of bad late-game place. You go all the way back to the decision to pass the Paul George in the opening game against the Lakers, he doesn't Double Devon. Booker. When Devon Booker hits the game winner, he allows the switch on Luke dodges game winner. I? mean he was a mess in Games really throughout the bubble but. In this one particularly, he just had no field no command of the game. There was no takeover like we saw points of last year's playoffs, and so that's why Penn a lot of this on him I. Definitely don't think that doc is blameless and maybe the best way to frame this question is if you're Steve bomber. Who are you able to blame because remember this guy not only traded ninety five draft picks to get Paul George but he also bought Kawai Leonard a million backpacks to hand out to all the Makita school kids. Los Angeles he's been investing in these guys. Every possible way you can do it You know he's the one driving the ship. He's probably the most committed owner in the entire. Mba. Is Not good. This is not a tillman for Tita situation where he's going to meetings with Donald Trump and whining about his. Players salaries, and then just being too cheap to pay Mike the DANTONIO. This is a guy who has like every resource at his disposal to kind of upgrade this thing, and this is the biggest disappointment in franchise history. This is worse than two thousand fifteen. This is worse than any of the other early flameouts. So how does Balmer respond? Does the same guy who's jumping around and sweating through his t shirts on the Microsoft stage just going to be like, let's run it back with DOC and Kawhi and Paul George and. Our and and Lou Williams, and just see see if this thing works again next year I be surprised if he did I bet you he's furious right now let's talk about the dock thing for a second. Specifically the idea that the clippers weren't conditioned because of the situation in the bubble weren't didn't have the continuity that they wanted, which is what he said post game which. These are both valid things and about as doc as it gets, you know the coach of the team that you know his celtics without Kendrick Perkins still never lost a playoff series and you know much like that these clippers when properly condition of still never lost a playoff series did you know that he's not a real doctor? Another DOC ISM this is this is news to me, but the reality is they were up three one in this series and got wrecked. You know this turned out to be a worst matchup for them than they expected, but they played way too casually they left points on the floor all over the place because they weren't as direct as they needed to be because his chart. Saluted to they didn't have the rotations in terms of the bigs that they needed to have. They really let themselves be vulnerable to this and I think that there's GonNa be some owning of that this off season if you're going to move forward. So here's my thought I think we can all agree maybe the clippers weren't quite as good as we all thought they would be. But that means it's even more important that they have a really quick. Coach who makes Quick Lineup Adjustments in playoff series I mean, what's the common thread? Two, hundred, fifteen down three one What's a comment like Dhaka's the first coach lose three series up three. One I mean that's incredible. I was actually texting someone at the ringer who has a long history with doc in Boston, and he gave me a very long list of things. Doc didn't do right over the years to me. You just kind of have to move on from him because the margins are so thin. You've just gotTa have a coach. You can make adjustments quicker because if you don't you're done, you're gonNA lose I think my question is. Is it just doc or can we have confidence in this big to that they've assembled or quiet symbol for them going forward I mean quiet times it felt like shot was flat as Ben alluded to maybe there was something do with like his conditioning or maybe because of the long break, whatever load management he needs to do to get himself ready got disrupted and you can never get himself right? I I don't know but Paul George I think we have enough of a track record on this guy to really start to question whether or not. He could bring in the playoffs. It's obviously a much more complicated discussion now because he talked about having depression anxiety earlier on in the bubble when I have like all this empathy in the world for that but you know these are like real world. Implications in the these are actual things that they're going to have to deal with it. I don't know if you can rely on George in the situation she just disappears. If you need a second star I, don't know if he's ever really shown himself to be that outside of what maybe last regular season at best. Well, here's the thing you Kinda have to rely on those guys. Right you can fire the coach you can't Fire Cohen Paul George. You can trade them for the record too. I mean I. Don't think we're quite at Defcon Fire Doc rivers like. Coaches, make mistakes all the time to play officers. If if the nuggets had lost their first round series, there were stages where Michael Malone getting all kinds a heat for things he was doing against the series against the jazz or in the series against the jazz. Yes, he adapted. Yes. The nuggets survived. Yes. They've they continue to survive but these guys make mistakes that part is okay. I think what gives you in a big picture since in terms of bring a team together in terms of communication tourism managing personality those things matter they weren't at their top level during this playoff run but they could be next year, which again, you're really targeting this window you're saying, can we win a title while we have these guys? I think docs to allows you to do that. By you're saying like DOC. hotties, intangible qualities do they look intangible in this team? This team look well coached Ashir manage roster wise personality wise conditioning wise. No but again, I think are other circumstances to account for there's a there's a lot going on in sample size of one. Riley. We're just looking at the results and again the series could have broken a couple different ways and We are way too deep into this podcast did not have talked about the Denver Nuggets and how good they were really in this series yet. Well, if Jamal Murray No. Really I think Jamal Mary wasn't incredible against really good defense at times. If yokich wasn't playing some of the best basketball, he's played although he's a guy who as already established himself as being a really good playoff performer. Day they punched the clippers and yes, it is a problem that they didn't respond. It's certainly a problem that they're communicating the things they are now post game, you know Paul George saying Oh we didn't expect to be championship robust the season when he had literally said they were championship or bus like three months ago. There's all kinds of these little red flags not saying doc his faultless but to me, he's still one of the better. Coaches in the league that doesn't doesn't mean he's not going to make mistakes can cost you a playoff series. All these guys can, but I I wouldn't fire him based off a performance like this I think it would be impulsive to fire him I just wonder how impulsive is Steve Bomber in this particular moment because everybody reacts disappointment differently we haven't really seen him with his hopes all the way up like the previous iterations of the clippers. Underneath him were sort of like either in transition or they were the scrappy underdogs that when you're trying to force their way into the playoffs or they were finally starting to build some momentum and remember this clipper season started with Steve Ballmer on a rally staged in south Los Angeles, holding up the jerseys with Paul George and Kawhi Leonard and talking titles that was like the whole thing all season long they came up with all these slogans of we over and you know spotlights over street lights and all these different things that kind of were meant. To say, Hey, we're not the Glitzy Lakers right were this substantial gritty team that's always going to be there when accounts at represents the city like this was their entire branding message that got completely flipped upside down and same thing with the load management thing right like all year long saving saving George Saving Saving, Paul George. You get to game seven all this time you've had to kind of get their bodies, right? Even Doc rivers talked about winning the weight during the shutdown right getting these guys in phenomenal shape so they're ready to go you. Get to game seven of fourth quarter against a team that has just played a seven game series that was absolutely exhausting and the two most tired guys on the court as far as I can tell work Hawaiian Paul George. Because all they wanted to shoot fifteen foot contested, pull up shots. So if your identity as we catered to Leonard, we did everything we possibly could to get Paul George we're going to load, manage them and worth gritty team. All of those things backfire on your face and your Steve Bomber, who are you like what is your? Identity is it time for a rebrand? Do you have to scrap the Zun and like go out and make some other different kind of product right? Like I, think it's kind of an interesting turning point for him how patient he can remain through this gigantic disappointment will say a lot about who he is as an owner and I guess I'm actually kind of on your side rob where patients might be a good idea right now and you know subtle moves might be the the better approach rather than blow salads put like this though. So Cleveland Two Thousand Sixteen. David Blatt. Has Just went the NBA finals. He's one of the most accomplished coaches European history. He asked the cavs, the number one seed in the conference, and the says, you know what? This guy's not good enough. He's gotta go. He Fires Blad everyone thinks he is crazy. Who Does he hire the assistant coach Toronto to come in and Toronto did an incredible job in twenty sixteen, two, thousand, seventeen, twenty, eighteen, the margins are just so small in these playoff series. If you don't have confidence in your coach, the right adjustments that you're probably going to lose and I think everyone would agree it was very impulsive and rash the fire David Blatt but it had to be done. Like one of the greatest press conference moments of all time. So I was like I thought they waited too long. Frankly I was ready for him to be fired right in the middle that Chicago series when he tried to call the timeout, but I hear your point. Who would you want to replace doc? John Do. You. Have a favorite in the CLUBHOUSE I wouldn't mind Toronto. Actually did in Cleveland I think Cleveland Toronto loose showed he can make adjustments very very quickly I remember twenty eighteen when the Brahmins the finals Kevin Levin Kyrie Irving they played a different closing lineup in each of their first three series so like Toronto, you went from. Like big small like series series series as constantly adjusting his lineups and I think like if you're GonNa, win a championship these days you kind of have to have that ability. You saw them Toronto to ride dwane. Casey everyone loves doing Casey I know him from Dallas Music. System. For Carlisle, he's a great guy. Great Culture Guy everyone loves him coach to the air trial just said. You know what we need to more aggressive coach and if you're one, I mean obviously didn't have Kawhi. Leonard I don't think if you don't have nick nurse they went last year I think nick nurse was that important to Toronto last season I think having a coach aggressive and on the play offs it's a risk but to me staying the same as a bigger risk well, I Think. This is probably where the advantages of having an owner like Steve Balmer probably come into play if this is going to be an arms race for Taya Lou which it seems like it's Kinda shaping up to be because it seems like every team could use a tie Lou I do wonder this is where Steve Bomber opens up his pocketbook and just pays tyler whatever he wants. It is funny though because as you're talking about Tillman for TITA and and the clippers in the rockets and just all that difference like I do wonder what would happen and how the NBA would be different if the clippers were never sold in bomber was in charge of the rockets like, can you imagine how much better the rockets would be if they just like had someone willing to spend on the margins nor to make this work I don't know that's aside Danja. I do like these are the these are the ways that the clippers can win without probably changing everything about them. They could win changing almost nothing about them like they could leave their roster more or less intact at the exact same coach next year and win under slightly different circumstances. I think would make me nervous about a coaching shift would be. You're basically guaranteed a two year window here. Your first year has gone. You blew it. Are you really going to completely hard reset which can have its benefits, but you have a new language to learn in terms of scheme you have a new new structure to learn in terms of system with a new potentially I don't know what what a guy like Lou or whoever they would bring in what Ron I'm assuming there would be some changes. Do you really want to completely reset? It had that learning curve again at the start of the season, even though you're bringing back more or less the same team that would make me nervous on such a short time I think the best news for the clippers in this is like kind of dark. But in terms of keeping his group together, I think mantras herald cost himself so much money in these playoffs that they can actually probably keep him and he I mean he's probably going to be still one of the higher. Targeted, free agent big men out there. But again, you're talking about bombers, resources and everything else I don't know if I was another team and I watched those playoffs and understand there is a lot of extenuating circumstances with Eros family off the court and all that. But he did not look like the same guy he did during the regular season that could actually wind up playing to the clippers benefit because if they lose him. You know or Morris. Those are some holes and I, think that their depth which I. kind of thought was vaunted all season among I was hyping it up all season long I mean the death definitely evaporated the series. Don't you thing? Yeah. I mean again this I wonder if we talked about this last week, I, do wonder if like bomber being willing to go into luxury tax at a time when other owners might not be willing to just because of the financial situation of the League because of all the money, each individual team is law said you wonder if there's an advantage and all of a sudden? Yeah. Even if Trez doesn't come at a discount you keep. Him You keep Morris maybe you bring back. Your Michael. Green is well, if he does decide to opt out and all of a sudden worst case, you're just paying four an asset to flip at the deadline in order to make other moves on the road because they do not have draft picks. So at the very least, they do need some sort of flexibility kind of like the thunder basically trading contracts over and over again in order to keep the team going without actually really adding anyone in free agency I do wonder if that's ultimately they're only path to really make this thing. Just marginally better which if we're being honest, that's probably all they need is just minor improvements make this work justin guys the other guys a question real quick on something you raised earlier about Paul George. You sound pretty skeptical like you're you're in the camp that's over there making playoff teams it sounds like with his gave seven performance. Now rob you just said, you think that there's not a lot has to change for them to still get over the hump. Do you still really believe that I've been trying my best to defend Paul George for the last few years and I think his point about how he's always on the underdog team is true and I Think both he and Hardin get a little bit of excessive criticism because they're always losing to better teams. So that winds up making them easy punching bags but do you really trust like if you were you know Doc Rivers Taya Lou as the coach next year and you're rolling out their Western Conference Finals with Paul George as your number two guy do you honestly believe deep in your soul? He's going to be able to get you over the top I mean I felt like he had the most pressure of any player coming into these playoffs and it did not end well at all I mean it ended pretty much as bad as it could end for him. Yet this run I think shook it in a different way for me. Personally, you know some of his previous shortcomings I could chalk up to this or that you still look at the series long numbers of the playoff, the playoff long numbers, and they would still be pretty strong overall or he would show up in certain big moments but not another big moments. I think all that stuff just kind of life as a non superstar in the NBA life as a second tier third to your kind of star in the League, which is fine which is kind of where he is. This run felt a little different in that way and I think you're I think you're right in that. The confidence has to be wavering slightly around Paul in his ability to deliver in these moments and again to not to take anything away from the nuggets here because I think Gary Harrison Jeremy Grants Defense in this series was pretty terrific. You know those two guys. They played their hearts out and that's the reason why Paul George has a game like this where you should. So poorly from the field where he barely gets to the free throw line like there's enough of a deterrent there to stop him that said, you want a guy who win to two bar like the honest language that when they hit the wall, they go through it Paul George is. Not that kind of Guy I think I look at it like in for a penny in for a pound. Now, right you've made your bed with Paul George Ninety make the most of it and I do wonder at some point maybe when you've bottomed out, things want to go up from here right? Like what is Paul did have to be afraid for anymore he's already spectacularly imploded a national. Right like they can't get any worse for them. I. Think if he if he learns like get off social media from this like maybe we'll go up of being a sturdy it'll be more mature like. What are you GonNa do really I mean that's what happened to the heat. It took just like a historic defeat for them to really regroup and really reset themselves and kind of like not feed into whatever everyone else is saying and just Kinda do their own thing I mean. I kind of put a lot of blame on the clippers in this situation. Because they kind of already knew that Georgia's here even though that this is kind of an extreme example of some issues. He's had an a pass. They mortgaged their entire future specifically to bring him along with Kawhi rather than just like put up front and just like just hold the line against like if I'm starting to wonder now and I'm curious what you guys think about this if they would have just been better off, not have if it meant not bringing collages saying no engines going. Forward with what they had like waiting for the next available superstar because as we've seen these guys come up is this team as it was constructed before the quite trade with Shay and Gallo knows other guys and you throw in like let's say a Bradley beal and then you just work from there like I still think that team has a path to the to the title maybe just one that is in immediate I. Think I think two things can be true right like on the one hand. Sam Prestige has leverage and took everything like he took. He took the whole house in that trade. That is true on the other hand. I agree that they had like a decent foundation and they're clearly an attractive market. They could have made a play for another star as we talked about with guys like mantras herald other contract situations those numbers just keep ticking like all those contracts are rolling over having to pay more guys to keep them. You're having to you know to just to keep your core in place proves costly not to mention the opportunity cost I think if Kawhi. Leonard One of the best basketball players in the world says, he wants to come to your team. You move pretty much anything you need to move to make that happen that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt in twenty twenty two when these draft picks start coming do but I still think this is a trade the clippers make a hundred times out of one hundred. Now, you cannot do the collide part of it because we saw last night how everyone loves to mock the clippers I mean. It's just like a national pastime and it's not even just Lakers Christmas anymore, which definitely was Lakers Christmas. Last night it's everyone getting in on it I mean Damian Lillard CJ mccollum everybody is having a great laugh at the clippers expense. So if you rewind last summer and they don't get Leonard now they're just same younger brother in La that nobody cares about they never get anybody. They're the losers all of that same mo Jo is around them. So I do think landing collide. Definitely, gave them a level of credibility to get future free agents and just kinda change perception of their franchise and a very important way where they maybe should have drawn the line and I know there was definitely conversations internally as the whole Paul George thing was going on I mean obviously, they needed to get slightly less fleeced by Sampras St Right? Obviously. But they also needed to think about pushing back to Hawaii and whoever else was advising him and be like Bro we actually think. Can really play and it turns out that like nine years of draft picks could really be helpful for you. There needed to be maybe some exploration of alternate scenarios rather than just completely you know selling the House for for Paul George because I think that had you just gotten Kawai kept Shea. And kept those other pieces at had more flexibility. You could swing some other type of trades. You're probably in a better spot than you are right now and you're certainly not stuck going into next year with this in for a opinion for a pound deal where you don't feel like you have a lot of options and you're just kind of rolling it back and closing your eyes and hoping it works. It does remind me a little bit of the of the Chris Paul in James Harden Pairing in Houston or even their current pairing with and westbrook where it's like, alright you you made your bed you're kind of stuck with these guys, but you don't truly. Believe that they can get over the Hump if you continue to play like they showed. So are you just kidding yourself at some point? I think ultimately, it goes back to ally because as we've seen like these best teams, these stars are making the moves. The are kind of held hostage to the stars and we're the comparisons this laguardia terrible way you're trying to say, it's just a horrible year I mean come on player GM's coach GM's is tough look Lebron carefully cultivated Anthony Davis for years. You said, this is my guy this is the guy want he's coming to my agencies come to Los Angeles whereas it kind of flick I went through his phone was like. Katie what's up? Jimmy Butler. All right PG. Okay let's do it. It felt a little more haphazard and maybe we're seeing the downsides of that. Now whereas Lebron had an all carefully plotted out for years at a time. Well, one thing I do wonder is how much of the shot for that we're all seeing right now is because of coli and kind of just like the general vibe of this team going on right now, I think some of it is because Patrick Beverley just like talk so much shit. That everyone is just like ready to give it back to him but in a lot of ways to charge his point like the. Team does Kinda take on the persona of their star? I think that it's a cliche but it's also true. We've seen played out a bunch of time just look at the Lakers I mean as charged was saying like have all of these guys who are like great in two, thousand nine and yet like Lebron eighty is enough to really drive team I do wonder there's just like the sense of joyless nece about this team that I wonder if they could shake because it kind of stems from Kurai. Paul George is similar enough to this where he's kind of like not necessarily media shy but at the very least will. Isn't like charismatic as much of a vocal leader. I do think you can get reductive in this conversation because I think that could come from other players. Like for instance, this is an apples to apples, but like draymond green is the accelerate for the warriors in the way that Steph curry maybe vocally as a leader is not I do think you that as and you saw earlier in these playoffs when trump was on when tries Trez it is team looked like the clippers that we all expected them to be. There is like this energy there is just like, I, don't know. It's just it was just something to them that felt like there was this fight in them but I think this is the problem when when it tries doesn't step up and if you're relying on the ninth guy on your team, something is off. So I think ultimately my question is, is this baked into who they are or something that they can change I mean I think quiet who he is and they had a hard. Time they gave them a really wide berth like I said, they catered to his every request basically all season long I mean it was a very hard and treatment of by with the Clippers and I think even Paul George said it last night I'm not sure any of them ever really felt truly personally connected to qualify. They always talk about how he's funny behind the scenes and everything else. But which of those guys is. Willing to challenge him on the court like which of those guys you know is it really has a strong personal connection with Leonard to be. That's a completely open question. We never hear about it from Kuwa-. He reveals so little doc often talks around it or when he's ask those kinds of questions do you need to quite a be more of a leader on the court? I mean he never really answers those directly. And even last night when it was so obvious that the superstars let these guys down right in docs asked about it, and the first thing he wants to do is is deflect any criticism from them and kind of fall on the sword and and kind of protect them, which is admirable to a degree, but it's also not completely honest with who needs to be accountable for this loss. I just wonder if quite Leonard goes home from the bubble realizing how much. Of. This is his fault. Right and I think that you know you're making this comparison to the heat in two thousand and ten when we heard the story about, Lebron not wanting to leave his house for three months afterwards. 'cause he was so depressed because he knew let everybody down he knew that the critics who said he he's shrunk were right and all that stuff and he comes back with a new purpose next year. Do I necessarily anticipate that from Acquire Leonard Lopate a response like Jordan after losing to the magic ninety five and he comes back and he's on the space jam set running everybody off the court and they they win seventy two games in the title. Next year I kind of expect quite a comeback in place sixty, five games in thirty two minutes a night and do the same little things that choir always does and. You know you give them credit for the two titles. He's won the two finals MVP's that he's one but I do think there's a little bit more nuanced needed when we look at his reputation, kind of worry stacks up all time. Frankly I thought Dunkin carried the two thousand fourteen spurs I'm going to take to my grave and I also think we need to look back at last year's raptors and say that was a mutually beneficial relationship. The raptors figured out ways to kind of compensate for Christ weaknesses in may be ways that the clippers didn't quite figure out yet. Yeah. I would say like when I was younger. I used to always think Oh, if you have the best players you're going to win but as I get older and more washed I, don't believe that anymore and like the first question I'll ask someone of a team whose yaws leader who leads a team that's the is important like with Kyle are did last year is very, very important. Kyle lowry allowed coack can do his thing whatever I'll handle the team I'll give everyone line. There was no Kyle lowry on this team forget the basketball stuff it just the life stuff. All right. We should talk about the Nuggets Rob's dry out five set. The team that won this series May I. Remind You come on Rob. We're trying to appeal to the masses to the one hundred people in Denver. You know come on. Yeah. All the legions of clippers fans have been using. Talk. Cash is is not for their heads for fans. It's for their haters come on. True that's very true. There are more of those. So this was incredible. The nuggets came back from three one for a second time. Do can I give you just like before we go about them like the the haters take about the nuggets that you can't come back from a three one deficit and be that triumphant you have to go down three one before you come back from three. But. Now, Jamal Murray was incredible. I thought this is one of the best games I've ever seen Nikola Yokich played rob just go ahead just tell us about the glories of of the Denver, nuggets. Well, let's start with Yokich because let's call him what he is, which is one of the best play performers in the NBA right now like to your stretch now. The story the whole time was that he was going to be vulnerable that you're going to be able to exploit them defensively. They just took a pretty good crack at the number two offense in the regular season came out alive. and. At the point where his defense isn't an issue against this kind of opponent. What are we really talking about here? Because this is a guy putting up incredible numbers shooting sixty percent shooting now, not just for this series but over the course of his entire playoff career. He he's incredible and and as we've kind of danced around a lot of this conversation, he's got you pretty much can't double like Charleston's talking about because of all the problems that it creates and really forces you to do some things that are outside your comfort zone that we were gonNA push a coach like doc to things that he's not comfortable with that he doesn't WanNa do. He's incredible and to pair that with Murray who? Again like I think the on ball defense on Murray was pretty good. I'll series and yet she's pivoting around Gali Paul George and driving hard to the rams making incredible play's he's getting just hot enough to carry them in stretches where they need it, and then you have all these other guys, the Jeremy Grants, the Gary, Harrises who are not only hitting shots, the palm millsaps who had six points and looked awful and completely done at points in this series also gave them incredible and necessary minutes. I just couldn't be more impressed with with the nuggets did to be on I think they deserve all praise in the world. For pulling this off because the team that we saw over these last three games to compare that with the team that we saw start the Utah series it's just been such an amazing journey for them to get to this point maybe they shouldn't have started out so terribly to begin with. But where they've ended up is is a hell of a thing I think we should start with the pick and roll which when Yokich Murray I feel like that has a chance to be because it's been play playoffs now and there's no answer for it. Right? You can't go under you can't trap it and you can't switch it right Joke and Murray Pike the lease switchable players in the League Greg because you have Yokich the best Po Score Murray Guy can score from thirty, five, forty feet when he wants right. So if you can't switch can't double can't trap can't blitz can't wander can't go over like what can you do I don't know what the answer is be on double team extra is and the newly G- mistakes pass anyways like that pick. And Roll to me that a chance to be like the steph Curry Jim agree pick and roll talk about like fifteen twenty years. The thing that the series reminded me of and really brought to the light. We've been talking for a while now about how teams are using their cap, who they're willing to pay for who they should be devoting resources for and the conversation for a while it's been at the center position is. A mercenary position, you get a guy, you plug him and you're going to be fine as long as he's productive in the right ways versatile in the right ways. This series to me is an indictment of that because you have a visa zoo bots, who is a pretty good big plugged into a lineup of other really good players and it's all fun and games to have that Mantras Hera until you run into a seven. Foot Serbian who just rolls over you and you know if you have a specific talent like Yokich, that Kinda Shit isn't good enough like you really need to be prepared for these outcomes and you know anybody at the top tiers, the West was necessarily looking at the nuggets in fear, but maybe they should have been. Yeah. Here's my Yokich take. It's a little bit lighter. You guys have been breaking down the XS and OS. This guy needs to get on instagram. Okay. Charming when he wasn't on social media when he was just an all star level center. But when you outduel Kawhi Leonard in a second round series and now you're going heads up against the Braun for a trip to the NBA finals is not charming anymore you now officially have a responsibility as global icon to spread the beauty of the sport when you happen to play it more beautifully than anyone else. So I don't know if he has a cousin I don't know if you can find one of those big brothers we always see. These three hundred, fifty, pound Denver monsters can get one of those guys to just make at Yokich no and and get some of highlight clips percolating around social media. I'm you know I'm kidding but I'm really not I do think that this is obviously his coming out party and there's going to be a lot of people who tune into that Western Conference finals are like wait a minute Denver has a basketball. Team wait a minute like who is this gigantic guy? Why does he look like that and why is he just mixing everyone who's trying to guard him and I think that you know for him it's like this is your opportunity to kind of show what you what you're about, and he clearly has great basketball philosophy underlying everything. He does incredibly unselfish his stat line last night was just outrageous hard working on the. Defensive End. He's tried to make improvements on their he held up well enough against a team that was loaded with perimeter weapons you know on on the match up, you know coming into that series I think a lot of people are thinking these guys are gonna eat pretty well, and at times early in the series they did. But Denver was able to to hold up just fine in the biggest moments. In and that includes Yokich. I'm curious. How do you guys think the Lakers are gonNA approach Denver on both sides because the match ups here are so strange like Murray's like this traditional now modern point guard and the Lakers are kind of interchangeable lineup where they don't really have like a pure point guard defender. You've got Lebron is going to have his way with the nuggets wings in in an a method that. Quiet Paul George just didn't because Lebron we'll get to the rim he will get to the free throw line. I mean, that's just a a guarantee you've got. Anthony, Davis WHO's kind of a strange matchup with nuggets frontline and you've got Yokich where you know if I had to send out any of La's traditional bigs against Yokich I'm closing my eyes there right. So how do you think you know frank vocal and company are going attack this thing I mean you do have an Absolutely iconic matchup Yokich, I Davis. This is just like center porno a big man porn right there. Those two guys I. Think Ultimately, my guess is if you're La, you're going to have to put eighty on Yokich Lebron on Murray and switched to screen. I, think that's maybe the best chance to guard those two guys 'cause like theoretically right eighty can theoretically may be guard Murray in the perimeter and Lebron. So freaking strong I to see Yokich and Lebron banging into the paint that'd be credible. I look at it from the other side is Yokich going to have to guard Davis I think Dave is could score forty night and like the one of the things I've been most impressed about with Yokich has been some of his defensive performances both this postseason and even dating back to last postseason. I thought like at times he's he's not going to be the best defender. You're mostly looking for him to be capable a lot of the times but we know about the the cross core Lebron levels, a bonus level passing and all the other stuff that he does. But like last night in particular I thought he was. Really good at times where he someone someone at the Rim and gave them kind of a glare which we don't usually see like you could tell that he was embracing that level and I I do think when he's able to lock in on the Defensive End, this team is different and I also think it's a credit to some of the other guys that they have around him. I think. So obviously, they didn't have bar for the series, but I almost feel like getting Gary Harris back into that team almost clarified what they do whereas Jeremy Grant and Harris and some of these other guys just like fill in the defensive. Nuance I guess around some of these, these two superstar offense players in the same way that I think. The Celtics are better without hayward in a Lotta ways. He kind of clarified what they did at least in terms of rotations and in terms of who they are just I have a question for you as like the ad whisper. How is she going to do against Yokich against the guy who's that big and strong? How does that match a play for him on defense? I do think he has struggled in the past against smaller guys guys you can stand up to him. OWES MORE PJ talk my smaller PJ, Tucker types who are more stout. Who are able to move with him I actually engaged is going to Cook Yokich I. Think like I mean I mean the other way though he garden Yokich? How's that going to work? I would assume that eighty is the optimal defender for a guy like Yoga's just because he could move with them. I. Mean I think you saw in some some kind of. Series that if you get a bigger guy on him, you're either you're you're forcing him to be jumps you're. So where do you go bare forced him to be more of a jump shooter in that first series debate pretty much stonewalled him in the paint. And I think boss should a better job of getting out onto Yokich. In this series but I think eighty kind of the best of both worlds. I feel like they're going to help those guys that I feel like they're going to try to things like remember that one sequence where I think Jeremy Grant was just breaking corner threes at the end of one of the games I feel like that's GonNa be what the Lakers are trying to dare the nuggets into right? Don't you think just maybe it's not like. Hard trapping but it's just like helping significantly on the two man game and just Kinda hoping that guys like Paul Millsap in Jeremy Grand just can't get it done I don't know I think that's probably how I would approach it. Well I think you're wearing down Yokich in other ways to where like the thing that the Lakers are equipped to do that the clippers weren't willing to was attacked really directly in. The pick and roll like pick out Yokich, go at him time and time and time again collide for whatever reason didn't want to do that. They just kinda floated through some of their offense at times and they're looking for good shots there just kind of going about it in a roundabout way versus Lebron has shown. He will pick out a defender and he will go at you eight times in a row. That we saw the heat do with Kemba Walker like that's what playoff basketball is. You pick one defender who you know you have an advantage against and we'll see whether Lebron thinks he has an advantage against Yokich or not I suspect he does. But you know. What a broad can go from picking on Westbrook in the in the around to picking are Yokich in the third round of God. And great point though this wasn't embarrassing series from co I wasn't it I mean come on. Guy Leave on the sky left so much on the table. It's Kili Be. At on that note, let's let's take a quick break here, and when we come back, we're going to talk about the other game last night the he and this is We're. Back. So when Bam Outta BIOS stuff jason. Tatum at the Rim I felt like I felt feelings for the first time in jail. I feel I believe it knowing how you live your life. Just. Is it. Okay. Well I feel like I'm pretty good at remaining objective in the press box. I'm a professional journalists guys I've rarely. Happens I won't get up Outta my seat I was in my home I literally like you're and like jumped. Clapping thing that was incredible. That was like one of the best place I've seen in recent history. sharks what'd you see from this one last night because I will say for for most of that game I thought the Celtics were going to pull that out and then all of a sudden Bam just completely stonewalled him and it was a different game. I will say I did feel like though Miami one I thought you saw a lot of areas or Boston could attack them. And the thing I wander is 'cause Miami does so much cutting off the ball right so much ball movement will Boston be able to shut that off as a series goes along I. think that's my first question about the series can mike you saw them shutdown Robinson can they can they make Bam and Jimmy be scores instead of passers and I think that is the first big pivot. Point of everything going on I mean on that block I think we saw the lift of the basketball. God's Britain Arrays Bamut, a bio into the air to correct whatever it was that happened with Marcus smart at the end of regulation selling the hell out of that foul Dirksen Junior, which credits ahead like put the referees in a position where they have to call that that was ridiculous but. I think even more ridiculous was the body control the coordination from Bam to meet that shot at the rim with as much as grazing Jason. TATUM. Like there was no contact between their bodies other than him just obliterating the ball up there, which is what makes Bam. So enticing as a player there just aren't players his size with that kind of body control with that kind of coordination it's. It's a hell of a thing to see in a context like that for sure Ben. Ben, were you there when Qui- had the Middle Finger Block I was and I did not realize it was the middle finger block when it happened but can I give you guys just like a full-on Brag? That's GONNA. Make me sound like a pretty big dork though with this whole. Bam Block Claes lease. So I've been to every single game since the second round started have it missed a single game and in these times I have sort of I. Think I actually might be number one in the bubble in most games attended by any media member, I'm going to get that fact check by the end of it because I want that title but in in the course of going. To all these games and I've kind of come up with little maneuvers for like how I can position myself. So I'm basically offense defense substituting myself from one end of the court the other as these Games are unfolding. So like for example, when Lebron had to block in two, thousand, sixteen, I was at a, it was an oracle and so I'm up in the top of the second. You know the top of the the main bowl I guess. So in between the first and second tier so I saw it all in full but it was like I. don't even know hundreds of feet away for May and it was like I kind of have to squint through my glasses to really see see it here. I've got myself a seat right next to the. NBA, officials on one end, and then there's a baseline seat on the other end. So like double overtime game was happening I literally went back and forth between the rappers and Celtics I went back and forth between those two seats to Kinda get the perfect angle for these final plays like nine times. Of course, all the wives and girlfriends are like, why does this guy? Keep walking back and forth in front of us after every play. This is so obnoxious. Who Does he think he is but what can I say I can't help myself so I was perfectly positioned for Bam's a block right there on the on the court side view and you know there's this whole question. Is it the greatest block in playoff history I? Mean I think? Everyone loves to raise to the superlatives afterwards, it unfolded. So perfectly, his timing the strength of his wrist, a fact that it was his left hand the he covered a lot of ground to even get himself into position to make that block and tatum really really took it hard to the hoop and I had been sitting there watching tatum brick contested jumper after contested jumper. For the previous five minutes he missed his final seven shots in the last seven minutes of regulation and overtime. I, was waiting for him finally to go to the basket here he does perfectly has the same and Bam still meets him at the Rim and he's able to Kinda hold up. I, thought it was better than a block I don't know about Lebron's Block I. Think you know to me that's Kinda like hallowed territory when you start talking about like the stakes involved with the finals but it was an unbelievable play in all my darkness paid off everybody can go to my twitter account and watch the video from that from that sideline angle. It's just gorgeous and you could just see right how he beats him at the summit is. Awesome. It was one of the coolest moments. The only thing better. Honestly I think in terms of a pure moment here, the entire time in the bubble was og shot I think I would still have og shot is number one just because the pass was ridiculous but I think Bam's block was number two maybe Yokich should hire you as social media manager seems good tips. Here we go now making real money now go now I do think the tatum point about just how weird that last like I don't know ten minutes or so for the Celtics was just seemed like after all those beautiful basketball, they'd been able to pass their way through the heat zone which guys I don't know if you knew this but the he played some zone. I just. It was so weird because it seemed like they went to Canada because it seemed like they wanted to attack some switches, but then they were going Kemba. Oh, when they didn't even have the appropriate switch and then it switched to tatum and Tatum was is me I'm kind of think like if felt like Brad, Stevens in blacked out his certain point and we're just like, let's just ISO. The hell out of this. I don't know I think it was weird to see that down the stretch from from a coach that we're used to seeing just basically XS and os his way out of the situations. Some of that I think was the LINEUPS that Miami had out there like. The heater uniquely positioned if they have to defend one possession like they did at the end of regulation, they pull all their bad defenders from the floor and so you have Jimmy. Butler you've Bamut. Bio Jay crowder they're adding Jones junior and Andre Iguodala to that there is nowhere to score. There's nowhere to hide. There's match to pick on part of the reason I think we saw so many ISOS specifically from Kemba. Tyler hero was guarding him a lot sure and so if you're going to look at the heat and say, there's one place against all these really good defensive players where we could have something, it could be there surprise surprise hero who I think has really improved offensive defensively over the course of these playoffs really stepped up into this moments. Great game overall but he he really stood to that particular challenge here what a triple double almost twelve point seven boards nine assists speaking of that just as the world's biggest Kemba Walker. Fan Speak Your truth. Do you believe in the Sky Uconn legend what's your take on Campbell Eight Games listen I just like winners you know and a guy who maybe won a national championship before maybe almost won a playoff series with the Charlotte Hornets. Those are the guys that I'm going to. It was crazy how the only shot that this guy was able to make this happened in the previous series as well. Was this step back jumper I've never seen a player who has a signature move basically go to it with this much success when everyone realizes this is the move that he's going to get. This is like star level shit that he's doing right now where he's been able to bounce off guys and get the shot off on the other hand the rest of the performance last night was was dreadful. There's a there's really I think it'd be questioned Benham curious your thoughts here. Whether or not they really have to start. Now I wouldn't say sitting Cambe maybe like trying to limit his minutes or finding ways to to maybe play him a little bit more off ball because. There was a lot of bad there I. Mean, here's the thing I nobody wants to ramp up the celtics panic more than I do, and there are so many potential avenues like tatum collapses down the stretch Cambe can't get really good shots settling. The offense is grinding to the gears. You got all these three pointers, Marcus smart and when you got the Marcus smart game. In the second round, you win the game when you get the Mark Mark Game in the third round, you lose the game Jimmy powers through trucks, young Jason Tatum for the and one at the end of the game here they are out executing you on the other end. I mean, all of those kinds of things would be avenues to attack a young rising team. That's really kind of hasn't been there before in terms of being on the final stage in trying to dismiss them. But I feel like these guys are so steadying they already bounced back so many times from Toronto, they're like inoculated against these kinds of criticisms. So I'm not sure if that's faith in Brad. That I have where I don't WanNa get too excited and kind of bad them before they're done can act as assignment editor though please for either charge or rob or maybe like Mike preyistas listening or Mo. Dakhil there was that possession tell me if you guys remember this in the first half. So Miami, goes to its vaunted zone. Erik spoelstra puts up two fingers and everybody in the building knows that they're going to the zone. and. Boston. Had like twelve consecutive passes that ended up with the lineup. Do you guys remember this play where we're past past past couple of guys were driving and kicking Moving it back out to the perimeter I just need to explain to me what happened because it felt like a fever dream it was beautiful and I don't feel like we get enough zone offense talk on the Internet. So somebody take the ball and run with it. please. Well, this is the thing about the zone to you know in theory I. Think it's great against teams like the Celtics Toronto certainly had a lot. Of success, with it, but it does tend to be the kind of thing that has diminishing returns over seven game series right. So we saw the Celtics has been alleged to have that kind of movement out of the gate against the zone. What is the series look like in game five in game six and game seven if the heater still rolling out zones and they've had that much more practice to work with I to. Me That that speaks to what we've been dancing around this whole time, which is the Celtics did look pretty good in this game they look like they had some stuff that worked to me if the Heater GonNa win they have to get these punches in early before the Celtics can really started drafting to some of this stuff. There's also the Gordon Hayward thing like where Diaz, how do you feel about that gave? Any conference come back and because he can really help them obviously guy with his size and passing ability and shooting ability. Well, how much do they really need from him at this point? They're getting good production from Brad, wanamaker, Daniel thighs, some of these guys that they'll throw in for like five minutes and hope that Semioli just hits a corner three or two, and then you just get him out as quickly as possible. So. Screw anything up I do wonder I. Don't know how healthy he's going to be but if he can even give them ten to fifteen minutes, I think there appreciably better. Why don't you start with the grant? Williams semi Oh delay minutes and you go from there right? The heater such a small team like Gordon Hayward can be a big for you in this series. It's not really that big a deal. So I would start with that kind of investment and then if he looks good if he's replying wealth and scale it up yeah. I was a complete jerk. When he went down I mean he was walking out of the building in a in a walking boot and I was my first thought and I'm not trying to be a jerk again my first. Thought was well, they're going to be fine addition by subtraction they know who their best five guys are and they're just GonNa roll those guys down the stretch and they're going to be great because I really liked their closing lineup. So I mean to kind of go back to what you were saying you know, do you take him out certain situations? No I would stick with that five man group. They got you here ride with them through the end of it you know if you can. Find a small role off the bench for Hayward. That's fine. He should be okay with that means obviously trying to get himself back into physical condition I guess I look at it this way though can they win the title without him playing a real role, right? I. Think to this point not having them not having him has it really hurt them. I think they could actually win this series potentially without major contributions from him but if you look ahead to the finals, are they going? To need one more guy after you know riding their main guys pretty heavy minutes late against Toronto probably, pretty heavy minutes in this series against Miami I feel like there would be some moment where just having him a fifteen eighteen minutes a night would be you know potentially difference maker net scenario I. Just look at the lineup and you think if I could roll out Hayward Brown tatum smart size that is freaking nasty. There's no holes to attack on defense perfect floor spacing tons of playmakers. I want to see it at some point in the playoffs. Look like that's the group you go against when the Lakers go small with eighty at the five right when the Lakers use that lineup. That's like all six six and above like I feel like that's your counter and if if you don't have if you're relying on Kemba against that group that could get dicey it's so funny that I feel like I spent hours and hours around the trade deadline trying to figure out how the Celtics could improve upon Daniel face i. feel like this is like his coming. Out, party in these playoffs like I feel like I'm the leader thighs nation over here because every time he's on a on the court he makes a difference and I it is surprising how the Celtics just kind of stayed who they were were they kind of leaned into Jalen Jason and his perimeter defenses, their identity and his work so much I think a big part of that is we've talked about this a bunch on this podcast and I Kinda WanNa talk about it a little bit just quickly like How. It seems like every team has sizing down and if every team sizing down the teams that on unless you're the rockets, the teams that are used to doing that are the ones that are having the most success and I I mean, Ben, you references earlier but like the Celtics were used to playing without hayward, it's funny like you try to lean into this narrative like Marcus smart coming off the bench and becoming his big player. It's like he did that like forty times already during the regular season. And I do feel like they're already comfortable in the way that the basketball being played in playoffs. Tyson, foul trouble or or lack of it to me as a huge x factor in this series like I. Really think if I was Jimmy, Butler I would just be circling ties in. It's like anytime you have a chance to drive into his body or try to take him off the dribble and just do the stuff that gets him to the free throw line that. would be like an absolutely top priority because I do think there's a real fall off when he goes off the court what a moment for ties nation yourself late in game six when Toronto goes super small entices just having a Dunk parade I mean you must have been over there with the green beer in your job and your face painted and you know what else? Arm Sleep please. Asleep. He's got like a shamrock on your left You know your left arm and a Leprechaun your right arm when Tyson just going absolutely bananas He's been awesome and I do think his foul trouble is You know is something that they've got to watch out for they feel like maybe a big short although I like Robert Williams I think he's he's been really solid as well. but Yeah. No I I I'm with you entice nation I'll be honorary member a salutes a ties to under different stakes mind you but had his own. Bam. Like block against Bam himself. Early in that game, just took a dunk straight out of the rim like he just has those kinds of plays every game like a couple here and there not a huge deal. But in the grand scheme of things, those things really add up. I think for me like talking about Thyssen all this when I come back to this conversation as teams are going smaller, right? It makes sense. then. There's Anthony Davis they're going smaller with a seven footer. And that's why I wandered his all said and done the season is over my look back and say that was the move right there. Right. When you play small the seven footer at center, it's hard to loose. Well, what about Bam, Bam have a shot against a d. because it does feel like he's becoming central to much every series at the heat is playing at this point he's going to have to they're gonNA win. Don't know. Play a lot of minutes I. Get a little bit nervous when he has the his hands I know he gets a lot of love for his playmaking sometimes what he dribbles it just feels like, oh, now you can just dive on him and he he turns into this turnover machine that makes me a little bit uncomfortable. Just one final quick note on this series though what's been fun for me to look at with Boston and Miami is which of their players are the family sections, Fan favorites right and the wives. They love Marcus smart and they love Tyler Hero. Those guys are like the biggest dudes in the building. So I just hope. We get shoot outs between those two. It's it kind of fits though because I feel like basketball twitter's kind of the same way right like marcus like Hashtag when he plays, he's everywhere tyler heroes just like everyone's younger brother who just kind of seems like all this could go a couple of different directions, but he's like actually coming through in the clutch everybody's really happy for him. So that's just funny I didn't expect that you know I would have expected. You know. The love fest between Jason Tatum induced because. The headlines like Jimmy. Butler power moves you know getting the getting the juice rooting for Justin has takes on this. Important. We'll get me started on this because I think Liam attend to jinx the whole. MILWAUKEE. Bucks run showed up, they were foreign one in the playoffs he showed up they were one four in the playoffs. So you tell me the numbers don't lie. Babies are ruining the playoffs I on this corner. The tyranny of cheeses and and just like zoom in on this freaking baby whenever type tatum does anything this needs to stop. Justin. I'm I'm actually ready to join you on this corner. An an unprecedented level of access in these Games camera angles, the producers could never dream of in a normal NBA arena and we're out there watching a baby on an IPAD. I'll tell you just add a little more color. After. One of the bucks losses, the baby who I just mentioned earlier was just having. Fed pages just crying like just it was so sad because I'm not even sure he could have realized that dad had lost. So he was just crying independently of the Milwaukee Bucks this season collapsing and he's just walking out of the arena screaming I don't have children at this point pretty glad that I don't have. That single moment really confirmed a lot from everyone said, oh people you know it's so hard to be a parent during Cova man like it's very hard being a parent during cove and when you had to quarantine for a week, only have your team lose and only to have the baby exit the arena in just a full on tantrum brutal brutal. Okay. Joe Guys could. I got a six month old son. Don't let the haters get you down. Kids are awesome. These people are crazy coastal elitist or respect families have kids people. It's the best. So has your playoff game raised. During the during these playoffs John I mean we have been, has it been a curse for you or a jinx for you? I would say I have new data energy because I'm like four in the morning thing my son I'm ready to blog. It's great. You've dad strength. Well tatum Jaanus late-game guys with some issues call John he fix it. All right I think that's a good place to end it here. Ben Thank you so much for giving us the sports illustrated reunion we were all. I loved it. Thanks for having me Guys I. Really appreciate it asked coming on that is it for us. Thank you to John Robinson, for giving us our beautiful new introduction theme song here in R.i.p to Siri who after I think three years is no longer giving us takes but. The basketball is very good and we're thankful to have a new song at the top here. We will be back next Wednesday from all of us here at the group chat we'll see you next time.