WTD When Markets Decline #165
This episode is brought to you by office. Depot Office depot has supplies and services for businesses of any size and they have a wide range of services they can provide twenty four seven tech support. Print your marketing materials and even help you design your office with variety of furniture solutions. They also have all of the supplies. Your office needs from ink and in paper to cleaning and break room supplies. I'll tell you one thing that I never want to have to mess with again is figuring out what kind of toner cartridges. My particular brand of printer her needs office depot. has you covered whether you're running a home office like I do or work in a larger corporate setting they have you covered office. Depot is ready to help your business with knowledgeable eligible associates in over thirteen hundred stores or online at Office Depot Dot Com. Welcome to how the money I'm Joel into I in Matt Today. We're discussing what to do. When markets decline decline digital marcus gets declining? It is inevitable right. It's not a matter of if that happens. But it's more dramatic of when that happens so during this episode. We're GonNa talk about some things that we can do before that it happens. We're GONNA talk about how to respond to those changes as they're happening in regards to our investments but not just. Our investments are personal finances as well. We're going to cover a variety eighty of little topics here. Yeah when markets decline it has far-ranging impacts. Not Just on how much money you have. In your investment portfolio but it has wide ranging economic impacts and so there's all sorts of things we have to take into consideration when markets do decline. And so. Yeah we're going to get into a bunch of that today but before we do. Let's talk about Airbnb because it has been a minutes minutes if you remember. It was episode one thirty seven. That's when we kind of announced that I had my airbnb up and running and it had been going for a couple of months at that point and even before that was it episode three that we talked about like should we host an AIRBNB. We've been talking about it for a long time back in the day. Well a reason. I think we've been fascinated with AIRBNB is because some of the appeal hill of it is that it's a way to make some money on the side was something potentially that you already have right if you have the space in your home but specifically one of the ways that is different from these different gigs. Like driving lift uber is that it's something that you can do without much time or effort put into it right completely. We'll turns out that's not the case. So we had our AIRBNB AIRBNB up and running for you know for a lot of last year and I tell you what I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed getting to meet all the different folks. I inviting folks into into the space in her home that we had specially set up for them basically playing host drinking alcohol in the front lawn with ungodly hour in the morning. Well that happened one one time it was when they're leaving and they wanted me to have a taste of the special or from Scott. I think it was Scotland. It wasn't a scotch but it was from Scotland. That will be one of my more memorable moments as an airbnb host but as much fun as all that was it still took a lot more time than we realize starting with communicating digitally with folks when Kate Eight handled all of that but to meeting them in person showing them the space all the way to flipping the space and cleaning it. It was more like a part time job which is not what we were. I'm hoping for we were hoping that it would end up being something a little more hands off and yeah. That just wasn't the case for us. Yeah you're really getting into kind of the hospitality industry. It seems from the outside side looking in just completely different than a full-time annually. Sort of rental that we are typically set up on your like charting new territory getting into waters. There's with AIRBNB and the ad did seem to suck up a lot more of your time than you thought it would like. You just mentioned a traditional least that is what we found to be the solution right so we were looking for way to eliminate all of the additional time that is involved with every single guests that came and stayed at her place. Well with a traditional lease you don't really have too much of that because they take care of the place. They know that they know how to get in. You don't have to show them where to park like all those things and so that. Yeah that's that's the solution right now we've got a guy down there For two months wants and let me just tell you how great that has been right not having to worry about meeting new guests that are showing up for cates and not have to worry about flipping the space and making ensure that it's time for the new guests to show up at added this additional sort of level of stress that we realized we weren't willing to take on in our lives. I will say though that there is a tradeoff. We aren't or making quite as much money as we were when we had it listed on Airbnb however it is worth the pay cut. Yeah you know it made me think about the episode that you and I did about calculating your hourly wage knowing kind of what you're worth in that regard and it did seem like with all the hours you're pouring into airbnb you're devaluing your time. Yeah because it was taking so much more time than he thought it would you basically became a host and a cleaning person and a communicator. And all the hours you put into it if you were or to factor in the additional you make over kind of instead going for short term leases of a couple of months. I think you're GonNa find that what you were actually making in running the place and this differs from city to city circumstance the circumstance. Some people can make a killing doing airbnb or if you do it at a bigger level and you've got multiple AIRBNB and you've got a system them in place then you can do really really well but sometimes just doing one can be really really hard and it does seem like you weren't making enough money to make it worthwhile. I mean we did calculate it when that's why that's why we that decision basically. We clearly identified that. This is not worth our time. And we could have automated check in and we could have gotten a cleaner it eats into your cost. And that brought the net income from the AIRBNB down substantially. And so I think I mentioned on the episode where we talked about hosting the AIRBNB when it was finally up and running that the previous two months we had made a little over sixteen hundred dollars a month which was pretty solid but last year there also some slower months where we're making closer to twelve hundred and so on average it came out to be about fourteen hundred dollars a month and we currently have the base run out for twelve hundred dollars a month. So we're making two hundred dollars less a month but like I said man worth every penny we have our life back is not something we have to worry about. The reason I wanted to mention this is because if you are hosting AIRBNB and maybe you're feeling burnt out a little bit. Well consider not necessarily a full on traditional leads where someone's going to be there for a year in our case. I'm not sure if somebody would want to be there for a full year because we don't have a full kitchen is not quite completely set up to be a super long term rental but it's perfect for someone in town for a little bit working on a project anywhere between two three or four months something like that and for us. It has been a fantastic decision to kind of. Put the AIRBNB on hold. Yeah and you've got to be willing to pivot in a moment like that right where you kind of start to get in you. Start to see how it's working and you realize it's just not working out the way that you wanted it to and think we mentioned on the episode Matt about hosting an Airbnb be how potential government shifts in policy can change whether or not you're able to even renting airbnb so if you're going to start hosting AIRBNB you have to be ready to shift anyway because of the the potential changes in regulations where you live but at the same time. I think you need to be willing just like you did to shift if not working out for you. In the way that you'd hoped so I think yeah Hosting an AIRBNB works out for you know good many people but also just doesn't work out the way a lot of people wanting to end you really have to think about it as getting into the hospitality industry and being a landlord of a longer term lease is just so much simpler really in the day to day. But I'm glad for you guys get in all that time back in your life and you know what a couple of hundred bucks. Totally worth the tradeoff. Yeah exactly the way we have it currently set up completely sustainable or as Airbnb just felt like it was something that we were not going to be able to keep up with. At least you know in this stage in our life turns out adding a part time job to our plates. In addition to a new baby doesn't really fly and not a recipe for success. Yeah all right well. Let's mention the beer that we're having coming on the show today. We're fortunate enough to have a beer called bread Weiss from Firestone Walker Brewing Company and this one was given to us by our friend. Josh I cannot wait to share this one on the show today with you my friend. Yeah I mean and this is our fourth and final beer in this one in particular is going to be really good this one for last. Yeah I'm excited about a buddy all right we'll We'll give our tasting notes on this one at the end of the episode but Matt Let's get onto the subject at hand. We're talking about what you do. When markets are declining and it's true market's declined from time to time right we're talking about stock markets? The general economy there are cycles of expansion in cycles of contraction and and when markets decline. It's a normal current but it doesn't feel normal when the headlines start to turn dark and gloomy on us right we start to feel as if we should be changing aging something in our lives. Anything all the talking heads on TV begin to proclaim more difficulty in the future. And we're not like those guys Matt. We're not here to predict a recession or anything like that and we would say that you should be reticent when you hear anyone making specific market predictions or saying that they know something's coming but we will see a market decline line at some point. It's part of the natural cycle of things. And so what should we do win that eventual market decline arise. Where should our head be? And what sort of actions should we. We'd be taking well. That's what we're going to talk about today. Yeah well well. The reality is is that the stock market is at an all time high currently right in addition to that we've also seen gene. The prices of real estate like they've boomed over the last decade. We you know we recently talked about how a lot of folks have likely never experienced. The value of their homes dropping. A lot of our listeners have never seen the value of their 401K's go down. This is all really exciting right and unfortunately I think that most folks overall sentiment is that things will always be better better tomorrow than they are today yes over the long term values will increase. But we need to be a little wary when everyone around us is overly optimistic. It reminds me of a Warren Buffett quote where he says to be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful. These are wise words from the. He's currently the fourth richest man in the world. That's not too shabby and so if we WANNA do well with our money over time we need to think about how we can stomach a a market decline before it begins. Yeah and so again. We're not predicting anything coming around the Pike and we don't trust people that do say that that kind of stuff. That's headline making material cereal. That's panic inducing stuff. That just doesn't fit into a personal finance podcast. That is all about helping people make wise decisions but it's also important talk about the history of market cycles and the fact that these sorts of corrections do occur on a fairly consistent basis so statistically Matt let's talk about the good news I stock market's rise on average seventy seven percent of the time. That's good news. I like those odds. Yeah how often do bear markets come around though a bear market is is if you're not familiar. A twenty percent decline in stock prices. And those happen roughly every three point six years so three times a decade. You're going to experience a bear market the great thing about bear markets when you look at them statistically that they really only lasts around ten months overall and that's great news too so if we at least know that on average average we're going to experience a bear market every three to four years and then it only lasts ten months. It can help us get that mental preparation going to be able to endure it before it actually actually happens. Yeah in a little more history for folks while there have been twenty five bear markets since one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. There have only been fourteen recessions. They happen about half a half frequently although they represent obviously a bigger decline in worse economic conditions but knowing these numbers and knowing this history. It's really helpful by familiarizing. Rising ourselves with the historical outcomes can help us to get through these tougher economic times. You know this is a perfect example. Where knowledge is power? Yeah it's important to acknowledge knowledge also going through a bear market or even a recession doesn't just impact the amount of money that you have in your investment accounts in your 401k. IRA unemployment often goes up. Most of US tend to find ourselves on more unstable ground. No matter where we're at financially currently or where we are in our careers so after the break we're GonNa talk about how to handle your investments in the case of a market decline but also how to think about your job in your personal finances to Hiring the right people is one of the best ways to help your business but it shouldn't take time away from your other priorities with Lincoln jobs. It doesn't have to if you've got to get that Assistant to the regional manager job. Posted that you can do it right there. Only two jobs shrimp farms Lincoln jobs screens candidates with the hard hard and soft skills. You're looking for so you can hire the right person fast. Things like collaboration. Creativity and adaptability Lincoln looks beyond the work skills and put your job post in front of of qualified candidates who match your business requirements perfectly. 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You WanNa make sure that you have your plan written down and investment plan so important despite what the market is doing right now and what your emotions currently if you have a plan that you can stick to. It's going to help you to stay the course so you should take the time now to some realistic goals for how much you can. Sustainably amiably contribute in the allocation. You feel comfortable with. Just be careful of being overconfident and picking an unsustainable strategy right like for instance. You might be able to right now. Invest Thirty to forty percent of your paycheck and while that is amazing you know. Will you be able to stay that course especially once things get harder so answering some basic questions about out when you'll need that money and how uncomfortable you would feel if you experienced thirty to fifty percent decline in the value of your retirement funds like those are things that you need need to consider Joel actually writing it down. We'll help you to stick to that plan. No matter what the market conditions are yet and you mentioned the percentage of your income that's going towards towards investments and that's definitely a consideration needs to be part of any investment. Plan that you ride out but at the same time you also need to think about what you're invested in in your retirement accounts and we have no problem mm-hmm with younger individuals who are in the wealth-building phase of their life being one hundred percent exposed to stock at one hundred percent in equities but there are also a lot of people that would see their stomach turn if they had a thirty to fifty percent portfolio drop and so those are the kind of people who need to allocate locate their money differently inside their investment account. They need to be looking instead into a more balanced approach to their investments. But it's so important to ask those questions. Go ahead of time to put your mind there as to what kind of behavior you think you might exhibit worthy market to experience like severe losses to that extent in. I'm having that written plan is just so useful in guiding Ford. When you do get into the the middle the heart of more difficult circumstances? Yeah well. Let's talk now about modifying your plan right. And so oh this is more of a preemptive step as well but if you're no longer in the growth stage of investing you might want to consider shifting to more conservative investments and so so in the simplest terms this means having less of your invested assets in stocks bonds or even cash if you have an immediate need of those funds runs so this moves out the ride and we'll make wild market swings less impactful on your portfolio as approachable allow you to comfortably whether a downturn and honestly Joe like an even easier way like if you wanna hit the easy button just look through the different target date retirement funds because they automatically shift your money towards more conservative investments like bonds. Yeah and even if you start seeing headlines like the S. and P. Five hundred or the Dow Jones industrial average is down fifty percent over a year period. Because we're in this massive massive recession. Your portfolio is not sustaining those losses because you are more widely diversified and more of your money is put into conservative investments like cash in bonds. And that's just GonNa make it much easier to sleep at night if you need ready access to those funds in the very near future. Because he I can't imagine a whole lot of worse. Financial Scenarios Rose than being super close to retirement and eating that money and seeing your balanced drop like a rock and basically if you're not super close to retirement you're not thinking about preserving your money and keeping that nest egg intact and you are in the wealth-building phase of life. We would say basically the way you should think about a market downturn is that the stock market's on sale and when you find yourself in a bear market values dropping like crazy and you are in that stage of life. It's time to buy and this is easier said than done especially in the mom. We have a hard time thinking like this right. As as all the headlines predict doom and gloom. But it's all the more reason to include this plan and call out specific numbers if the S. and P. I five hundred does dip into bear market territory. Let's say maybe that's a trigger for you to pop in extra money into your Roth. IRA or your 401k. At work to bump up the percentage image that you're investing and then if things dip even lower maybe that is caused for you to invest even more. Yeah Joe what we're talking about here is basically being opportunistic. Right looking for a deal isn't a bad thing. In every other area of our life we get excited about finding a great deal when things are on sale like we pounce on it but for some reason with the stock market the opposite is true when we see a dropping we tend to run the other way. We're afraid to put money in. Because I guess we're afraid that we're GONNA lose all of our money but we know oh based on historical data that that is not the case Black Friday we get pumped about the TV sales. And then you don't run the other way when you see could sail around Thanksgiving right yeah. Exactly you're you're you're participating you're you're thankful for the lower price but when it comes to stock market investing usually we have the opposite reaction freak out and especially for an it for the long term. We do have to have have that markets are on sale mentality and it's time for me to hopefully if we have the fundamentals in place in our personal finances the ability to up our contribution level is the Joe. So what we're talking about here is making sure that we behave. According to the plan that we've created right. We want to make sure that we sure up our natural behavioral tendencies in order to stay the course these dips are temporary and so the idea is to keep ourselves for making bad moves during these downturns. I think a lot of times we know this knowledge like Oh. This isn't a matter of do. I know the right thing to do like we know the right thing to do. We just don't do the right thing in the moment. Yeah and I think yeah just like having the Knowledge College of the history and what. Typical bear market looks like going into it with that in our brains it can be really helpful instrumental in helping us stay the course well knowing knowing ourselves knowing our behavioral tendencies is key to so just being aware of the fact that we might freak out if we saw our 401k balance take a nosedive that alone can stop us from making some sort of a knee jerk reaction. We can't create necessarily a realistic simulation but trying to imagine what it would be like like in mentally kind of putting ourselves in. That place can be really helpful for us to assess whether we can handle it or not that ability to kind of know ourselves and our tendencies our personality type probably has a lot to do with that can really influence how we allocate our funds and then how we actually react when the market does experience downturn amount. I think another major behavioral influence on us. Especially during these times we've hinted at. It is the media and hyped culture there so prevalent in this day and h right. They have this insane ability to make something bad. Look like Doomsday's here especially when it comes to financial news so tune that stuff out. It's not helpful and in all likelihood the more you tune into it the more you're going to be likely to make moves you shouldn't based on everyone else losing your heads you want to be able to stick to your plan in part of that is the ability to out the people on TV. That are freaking out. Yeah meant we need to take those steps to remove ourselves from becoming obsessed with what the market is actually doing. You know. We don't need to look at our account statements while the market is in decline. And this might sound crazy to some folks but maybe even considered changing your password and letting your partner or you know highly trusted best friend. Keep that information for you just anything to keep you from checking from obsessing in worst case scenario Dario keeping you from making a bad decision that could have a disastrous effect on your finances for the long haul getting paper statements. Toss him straight in the recycling bin. Don't and open them up. Well before that. You should probably be enrolled in paperless statements. Anyway right sure sure. You don't need that paper in your life either way either way you go you should be not opening the emails. Or straight up deleting leading them or tossing those paper statements in the trash either way like opening those statements. You're going to hear around the water cooler you're GONNA know. Markets earned declined. But if you can to not the media for the most part now look at your statements unless you're checking the less you're thinking about it and the more likely yard stay the course by putting yourself on an information diet basically. You're you're hopefully able to keep yourself from panicking right like we said the worst thing that we can do is the freak out and start selling the exact wrong time joe earlier. We mentioned in how maybe a lot of our listeners how they haven't experienced a huge downturn in the market. I'll say that I'm one of those people. I didn't start seriously investing in the market until about ten years ago and that was after the housing crash and so while I had dabbled a little bit in investing up until that point I didn't have tens of thousands of dollars I didn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line so while I would like to think that I would do the right thing. Well the markets haven't put me to the test yet not yet but it's going to happen. Statistically it's going to happen at some point and until we just have to be ready for that and I was in the workforce and I was an investor I mean not a robust investor. I didn't have tons of money. Well I was working but I just definitely was not investing money money but I just think remember having these conversations with a CO worker who while the market was in steep decline during the great recession blast decade and he told me you you know what I'm I'm taking a lot of money I'm pulling it off the table and I can tell. He was just freaked out. He was shell shocked and we talked for a while but he just wasn't willing to change course and and he ended up pulling money out when You know as we were approaching kind of the the bottom of where the stock market ended up. And when you do that it's so hard to know when to put that money back in and so many people did that at the height of the downturn and then missed out on so much of the run-up the gains in the following years in two thousand ten two thousand eleven two thousand twelve and so yeah I mean basically every year since then right yeah exactly and so yeah I remember that conversation distinctly and kind of the way paint it can set in how it can become so hard to stay the course and especially if you plan to rely on or or knowing the history of the market at the same time but yeah panicking and panic. Selling is truly the worst thing that you can do your baking in your losses and you're not exposing that money towards the future upside. That's around the corner when the recovery Aubrey begins. And you'll market downturns they don't just affect the amount of money that you have invested in the market for retirement it has implications into other areas of our lives like employment and other aspects of our personal finances as well. And so. We're going to get to those right after the break this this episode is brought to you by office. Depot Office depot has supplies and services for businesses of any size. I speak to this personally as a college student when I was a business. The size of one office depot provides twenty four seven tech support it. Lets you print your own marketing materials and can help you design your office with a bunch of furniture solutions. They also have exactly the supplies. Your office needs needs from Your Home Office to a commercial setup. They've got the ink. They've got the paper they've got the cleaning. They've got the break room supplies. So when I was setting up my Home Office I went straight to office depot because I had a ton of stuff I needed to get and I wanted to get it all in one place but don't take my word for it see for yourself. Office depot is ready to help your business with knowledgeable associates in over one thousand three hundred stores or online at Office Depot Dot Com. I'm Alabama when markets decline. I mean there are a lot of things that happen in so many of the things things that do happen are out of our control. We talked about having an investment plan. And that's something that you have full control of her right is how you're going to treat your investments win. Markets are hurting but then there are other things that we just have less of an ability to change and a lot of things in particular happen in the employment market market when the overall economy isn't doing so hot and so it's important to kind of discuss that and the implications that it can have for us as employees. So if you're like most folks and you work for a company hard times might be a head and it's something that you have to think about now before we get into that situation. Yeah it's good to be prepared and declining. Economic Conditions Raises will likely be few and far between not that they've been great even in a strong recent economy. True true but you might see. Wage increases is completely freeze. And if you get paid hourly you're likely looking at fewer hours as your boss or your manager is looking to keep the numbers in the black. So even if you don't lose your job your paycheck could be smaller. Yeah I feel like to when we're talking about what things look like in the office typically in an economic downturn. There's lots more grumbling like the overall work environment can start to go south in it. It might even become toxic so just like right now as the stock market is at all time highs. There's is a lot of oftentimes excitement about the potential. There's there's more hires coming in. There are more projects on the line. People are more optimistic about what the company is up to and people are spending spending more money because they are optimists. Yeah exactly yeah. They're pumps they see their 401k. And they can spend more of their paycheck in the here now but the grumbling kind of sorts of takeover and not going to have an effect effect in workplace environment and ultimately in a really tough economy. Your company might start looking to downsize and it's impossible to fully plan ahead for losing your job but it's really important to be aware that that's a possibility until you don't be blindsided by that completely but because of all these possibilities of raises being cut off and and even at the worst possible potential of becoming unemployed in an economy. That's not doing so hot. Well that leads to a lot of things that we need to do individually in order to are you prepared for a potential market decline right. Yeah Joe and you know when you are employed these are things you don't have a ton of control over like obviously. This is not the time to be slacking on the job right like you want to show initiative. You WanNa work hard but there's only so much you can do at your company. I mean I should stop slacking now. Yes stops lacking work harder. Okay make sure you. Don't get fired advisement the earlier about news right and what media that we are allowing into our lives and so it doesn't mean completely ignoring the news but it does mean maybe considering to proactively do the exact opposite of what everyone else is doing in order to prepare. I like that idea man. I like doing the exact opposite of everyone approach else's into this if you think like Warren Buffett you WanNa Zeh while everyone else zagging. Yeah that's definitely that's definitely true so I think yeah we're talking about that. What do we do to Kinda supercharge? Our personal finances to withstand tougher economy when markets are in decline. Well I think one of the main things is to increase our savings rate and specifically the increase. How much we're allocating towards cash on hand? That's easy to tap and minimally that means to have a fully stocked Emergency Fund and having thing that sort of cash on hand is is huge specifically in hard times. Because let's say you do lose your job. It doesn't matter how much money you have in a 401k. That you can't tap until your late fifties. What matters is how much you have on hand to be able to pay rent and buy groceries? And so the more cash you have stored away for for a rainy day When markets are in decline and when the economy is in turbulent times that's hugely important when we're talking about personal finances yeah and we're not talking about just having enough cash on the hand to get by but looking to find deals like we talked about earlier with the stock market tanks? Like what if you had a lot more cash on hand to be able to put into the market while it's at its lowest peak and five years if you're someone who has steady employment whether you're self-employed or working at a company and you can use the extra cash on hand to funnel funnel towards investments when things were declined. That's the way to go. Yeah just think about the amazing financial position that would put you in. It's also really important to mission that we should be decreasing our debt levels. If you're at your budget brink right in good times well then where will you be when hard times rise so put extra energy towards paying off your debt and doing so quickly. Yeah more cash on hand less debt in your life. That's a recipe for success when you know. The economy is struggling to diversification versus occasion of income can be super helpful when we talk about how we weather a storm like this and side hustles. They're really great expanding. Our network is another way that I think we need to think about this ahead ahead of time if you're living paycheck to paycheck and you're hoping that your employer weathers an economic storm. Well well then it doesn't mean that you are actually prepared for this. You need to take some mm steps now to make sure that you can handle your employers turbulence well on your own and even if you don't have the desire or the time to have another source of income to get a side side-hustle to have kind of this other way of making money even if let's say your main job was to go away. Well it's really important to at least be connecting with people all in your network now talking to people in your field. Maintaining those connections that can pay dividends in the case of an economic downturn. Because maybe your employer there is ends up in a rough spot but other employers are able to whether things well and they might still be hiring even though things aren't rosie the overall economy and because you've maintained those network connections since then it just makes it that much easier for you to reach out and ask for an introduction in order to find that next job when things go south that your current one yeah man and so not surprisingly pressingly. A lot of what we're talking about in this episode are things that we talk about all the time right but I think hopefully there are some key takeaways some key things that are especially relevant when when markets are dropping. When you do feel that you know potential panic to pull your money out of the market at the exact wrong time? These are all things that you WanNa make sure that you keep in mind so that oh you are able to weather the storm not only just whether the story but maybe even come out the other side in slightly better shape. Yeah and I think when things are at their best is a great time to walk through some of these scenarios for yourself to come up with that investment plan right you want to plan ahead plan for the future and you want to run through some of these scenarios before the hard stuff starts to hit and I think that is ultimately. What's going to lead to preparation and the ability to yeah hopefully succeed like you said at the end of the day even after some rough market conditions you know maybe hit us for ten months like an average bear market or potential even longer but we want to be prepared as individuals? We don't want to be the kind of people who just cross our fingers and hope that everything's GonNa be okay. Most death man all right. Let's go ahead and take it back to our beer this episode. We are drinking bread of ICE. And it's spelled with a w. you you know like w e I ac- but you pronounce it like a pro and you sit vice. I don't think I did that at the beginning of that. You know I I think I pronounced it like a w it bread a vice however either way but this is a berliner style wheat beer from firestone Walker donated to the show by our friend. Josh Approach Joel. What are your thoughts on the spear? Oh man this one was so good it was definitely higher on the Sour scale for me. Yes it was a very tart tart it was funky. It was Okie a little fruity mixed with a high level of tartness and acidity. It just kind of was this kitchen sink of a wild l.. In my opinion because because it had all these incredible elements and so much of that is due to kind of the work of the yeast in this beer that really contribute so much to the overall flavor profile l.. Man You can tell. They put a lot of a lot of care. This one was absolutely delicious. What was your take on this one because I know this is like when your all time favorite styles? Yeah this might actually be be the best example of the style ever had in my life like you said it's a sour beer for sure is really bright and acidic and it did have a touch of that funky nece maybe from the barrels when they do agent in barrels that gives it that additional level of complexity also man. I felt like there was a touch of pineapple flavor to it if it had some touches of that bright tropical fruits us but at the same time without being overly sweet Yak totally got that too. Yeah and it really added just as nice other element to all the other stuff going on in it. And so Weiss or vice you know that means weeds and so this is basically a we Sarah wheat beer and I decided that if I was going to rename this beer I'd call it. We tart instead of sweetheart that'd be dumb name for it all right. Well we right to the folks at firestone Walker and see if they're up for name suggestions but I don't know if they're going to take that one or not is is pretty solid. Yeah Awesome Beer. Glad to get to enjoy this one with you my friend. And thanks again to our buddy josh percent in this one aren't Matt. That's going to do it for this episode. Everyone run out there listening. If you want the show notes for this episode you can find those on our website at how to money dot com. And if you're a listener and you haven't yet done this we would be incredibly thankful if you're headed over to apple podcasts and reviews regardless of where you listen to our podcast. We would love for you to subscribe so that you don't miss an episode Joel. That's going to be it for this episode until next time. Best friends out. 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