052 - The business model behind custom window coverings, Alice Orozco of Pret-a-Portiere
The product startup episode fifty. Two Alice Roscoe talks about selling made to order draperies online. Via pret- Hi. Everyone and welcome into the product started podcast where we talk about turning ideas into successful products step by step and thanks for listening today. In the last episode Samantha. Mantha and lane of Midas Cup talked about creating an all natural alternative to coffee so make sure to check out episode fifty one if you want to hear more about creating a food product and getting into local stores. So let's jump right into our interview today. Hi Alice thanks for coming on the show today. Some some really excited to have you on because I was interested in your story because you mentioned early on that you had a hard time getting started and I know a lot of people. Listening are the same way they have a problem just taking that first step you know they get trapped in their head or maybe even find it difficult to kind of go out there and test the product and see if they've got a market it for says hoping maybe you can talk about how you got started and y you got the idea to create your products. Yeah yeah absolutely saw. I started the company appealingly at of my passion for Interior Textiles. I had been out of the industry for three years at the time. I was working working for an association helping women in ICT and by tank. And I worked out of a startup incubator. This this is where I developed a strong appreciation for entrepreneurship and also I reflected a lot of my iron background. Brian up up a month cycle very entrepreneurial Maga Incite taking all these experiences in watching leading from the start ups I was very easy. We got to stop my driveway business and do it in a way that is streamlined. Automated and creates opportunity for this scaling. In High Gross Weight is very difficult to do with Kosovo finishings as wide scum. It however No I after much trial and era I have finally cracked the code will business model. If you like so talk about that a little bit. When you first got not sorted you mentioned that you bootstrap the business? What does that mean I actually sat on the ID and probably for about two years in Seattle paddle the funding to stop my company than life happened? And I was pregnant and I couldn't I just. I didn't have the money but I a new. I wanted to saw this business and I didn't WanNa weigh any long got started. I was actually five months pregnant when I saw audited and dotted with no money took a lot of Probably about a year from that point so we launched a year off to that But yet it took a lot of work a lot of ground work a lot of race age and a lot of negotiating associating with supplies as well yes. Let's take it even a step further before that. Sometimes people say that. Oh you know what I've had this idea and I want to turn it into a product. I don't I don't know how to get started. We'll talk about your process a little bit when you had this idea to do some of these custom furnishings. Was that what you started with. I had a a business selling custom kittens. Which is dotted when I was about sixteen years old and I did that with three years? I didn't unrealized at the time but I was actually very successful it. I never really appreciated everything that I had accomplished. In that period writ however that business it failed in a sense because I had accounting experience at all business experience I actually stopped doing business in our win I studied a degree and whatnot but Like I said I was out of the industry for quite some time. And and one of the things that I loved was Textiles and now working in that industry. Already you know. I mainly worked with a lot. Other high profile clients I worked with very op market customers and I was selling dry dry bridge. That would ridiculously priced and always in the back of my mind. I just saw it. Look they has to be another way. They has to be a way to be able to give this sort of quality product to a large group of people and that thought thing that I sat on for quite some time to sort of thinking about it trying to develop some strategies around that until I finally was is able to do that in. That's when I decided I needed to stop this business yet. When people usually go through that process I think they they sometimes who produced maybe a limited run of products and they go out there and sell them what they go and talk to some people face to face are they set up a table and ask people's opinions How did you do that to make sure that there was a market for it? I mean obviously you worked in that industry for a bit before so you understood the market. Really well yes yes. I've the actually do off is ability study which took me about six months to complete in I did a lot of intensive research judge Not on the industry by on the kind of customers that was GONNA be targeting. It was very obvious to May lie. What it's like like every day but in Australia we do a lot of new builds? You know apartments himes end yet. the renovator is a big thing. Here is well sorry. It was very obvious to me that it's it's quite a lodge off market for me to get in church and it was very feasible. intensive speaking to people. I didn't really do a lot of that. Only because I I had already leaning Ivy two hundred haimes previously helping them with it winter finishings on you. What people wanted a new kind of products they would by Casare putting the right product in front of them was very easy for me based on my experience in the past as interior designer? Yeah Yeah exactly exactly. I knew exactly what kind of product they would go full so it because like I said I was spirit strapping it. I couldn't offer everything I at the Stod I I only had. I think about ten products which is selected based on my experience of what people generally bullet and with the with headings eight five pay people generally go with is neutral colors. It was very very easy for me to pay the product but having said that. If if I didn't have that experience I think it would have been very wise to me to go out in and get that research face to face with all the people because otherwise I would put the wrong product awed in front of the wrong painful. It would have been a very costly mistake. And that's a good point that you bring up about using your past experience as an advantage advantage and I think a lot of people don't do that as they come into a new space and maybe they don't apply what they've learned before just because it's a you know maybe they don't think about it but it's it's interesting that you're able to do that with your work. Can you talk a little bit about how you're able to push through a you know the challenges of competing against these larger companies. You you know whenever we think about creating a product you see a gap in the market and you feel like you can fill it but then at the same time. A lot of the markets are dominated by these conglomerates that have have a lot more purchasing power a lot larger budget for marketing and advertising. What made you think that you could compete with them? This industry ear where I'm based I it's very fragmented saw You either have a people united sawing windy vanishing out of harm own. You've got your much lodge retailers than than in between you've got your interior designers. It was very clear like I said because I saw a lot of website ups. It was very for me I needed to be online and that was a big plus for me on. I'm just being able to identify the fact that astrology needs online. Retailer of wind are finishing custom window finishings and and another thing also was fact that you either have your budget cheat product or you're very offensive product product out there. I wanted to be in between and yeah light you not just understand the market. I know what it's like. I know what's out they. I have have done a lot of research on the publicly listed companies in my industry in a lot of the smaller retailers that are out there. As well Moseley the wholesalers. I actually within sorry three my previous business. I did outsource to a lot of site. Understood how they worked in who. They've customer the base wet and look. I even reached out to a lot of other supplies and people will generally pretty happy to help the Getting to the industry. Just basically what. Picky O'Brien of it and yet generally everybody was really happy to help. And it gives some advice but look majority of the people in my industry are Old off they. Dr Did not very web savvy Internet net savage. Unfortunately for you at the time yeah United States I started being more Here mistrial Australia Putting their business online trying to sell custom finishings online by I love like I'm a big user of online based absent Jason United Sas dice products and whatnot. Like I've got a big vision Businesses at Now my vision is is a lot larger than that so I kind of feel like I'm one step ahead each time or each year as a guy. You're in appreciate you sharing. How you differentiated did Your Business? Because I think a lot of people step into it and think that they have to compete on price and in reality. What you're doing is yeah? You were making your business. More accessible by focusing on the online market and people being able to get custom tailored you know furnishings a direct door pretty much I and the also dominated the middle area. Where like you said there wasn't anybody in that space? You either had really expensive products or something on the cheaper end. And that's really something important Horton to know in almost any market is that there's probably going to be gaps that aren't being filled right now and you need to make sure that you're well positioned for that and it's not that you just saw the gaps you you also recognize that your skillset was doing the online stuff that other people weren't doing. Yeah that's right but look having said that they took meanwhile to get to that point to be honest. I when I started. That was the idea that I had biden are how to get they. I didn't know how to get it online. How to make end another big element for me was getting the right business model with this industry? Even though you know you you products very expensive profit. Margins are actually very large so that was something by a sat on for a long time and I tried to strategize around you. Know How can I have a product that is at the right price. But then I'm also going to be a High Greis company. I'm going to be able to make some money. So that was a big challenge and it took till a few different business models before I could get it right. Appreciate you sharing that because I guess that we've had on the show. It make it sound like it's a straight eight line to go from the from the concept to Soudriette realized right And I know that's not the case just personally as an engineer. I know that we interact are designed resigned. Constantly you're constantly. It's almost a guessing check where you're going out there. You're testing the market seeing if it works growing if it does or scaling back if it doesn't and changing pivoting to a different audience and it's almost like you have to do that constantly. It's constant yeah just being able to adapt being able to change range and for me. It's been a lot Abou- passive heiresses. Well you know they would times when your sudden business wouldn't walk. I kept at it and it got to the point where it was like. Look I needed changes or I need to quit and I was just is never prepared to quit. I never quit. Basically in that case the past Characteristic of mine but it's paid off you know knowing knowing when to quit is so difficult because sometimes they answer is that you need to quit. Because maybe you've picked up by a market that saturated or the audience and product. It isn't right so maybe you can talk a little bit about the the business models that you chose. That didn't quite work out. Can you mentioned some of those. And maybe why they didn't work for you show show will initially look my idea was Have ready made high quality product. It's like a lot of the ready made. That are out there. Probably not way your advice here in astrology really tacky shade ready made could and so. I thought you know what I'll have already made product. We've old costume will be spike standards and my idea was just sat. Ah How ever I didn't have the big buyers I didn't have enough buys for that I needed to have some cash flies. Soy I got into custom-made again but then I was sucked into doing it. The traditional way of selling constant made couldn't way you you in visit the clients. She do a free measuring quiet and I did that for about a year in. Just it wasn't working for me like I at the margins in the industry very lar- and unite. I had my son was still a baby. I just. I couldn't do it as mother. It was too difficult. United to what fifty seventy hours a week full very little return and so I went back to my original light. A Year of the ready made out. Mock it vanishing and I thought I hey will how can I do to mate as well and not swin. I decided decided I need to sell custom made online men. I've moved towards doing that online. KABADDI about a year end yet. Light Light Benjamin was just the website. went through about seventy for websites. I'm actually J. to launch a new one again and then getting that right getting old assistance behind it right now. Yeah I know exactly what my business model is in where it needs to sicav right to the header to San sounds like quite a journey. As you've gone through this you know. How have you handled the customer aspect of it and still standing behind your work or providing returns when needed and things like that that must be a challenging aspect of the business as you know beauties of the beholder and someone gets their custom furnishings? They might not feel like it's up to par with what they were expecting even though that's exactly what they ordered yet. Look I actually face a law when customs officials in a traditional way. I would visit the Klein design it for them etcetera now because it's all online it basically the customer feels like they're in control. I helped him along the way I I give them ideas. And I can customize any element they want it's not just a matter of choosing assize in a fabric if they want to add any other element they can do that in I've start thought it doing it that way. I have not had a single complaint in re body loves WHAT THEY GONNA get now. If a customer ease I represent shore we do also scale drawings for them And sketches really get a lot of issues like like the customers that I get now people who want to do it themselves. They don't WanNA design a- and you know they they just feel in control of the whole design prices and it's very satisfying for them but look the biggest challenge for me was finding the supplies those allies. It could work with with ready. made it was. That align was difficult enough because I was so seeing. Aw offshore and finding supplies that could you know do minimum order quantities. That would be flexible in that. All sides could develop the product with the quality standards that I required. It was very difficult. I actually went through about two hundred. Supplies is by even had to teach myself a little bit of Chinese thought. Could get tricky cue. which is a bit like baseball? Bet The Chinese as us. I tried like Indonesian Indian companies and nobody could get the right quality. Eighty four Masar yet. It took a while may define a supplier but until I action found one. That was was happy for me to train them. Sorry I train them through. Video is in like I said initially was fruit. Strapping soit wasn't like I could travel traveled there and talk to as they were just very genuine people who wanted to help. I said look this is my idea. I don't have any in money in. What I'm willing to do? Is is take she end. Thanks of bullet. They provided my inventory. Three off a free of charge for about six months. Sorry I built a very very strong relationship with them and now the next stat. Once I went to cost to made that was another difficult. Poss- I've actually Game on the Gold Coast here Estrella area and that was really good bye kept it very lice Gal. Because I didn't want to spend too much. I didn't WANNA have to charge my my clients even more money for my products. I'm just sort of made it work between international than also making my products likely as well talk about that strategy a little bit. Are you sourcing fabric from one area of the world and dropping your manufacturer and then they're providing a custom custom a drapery for your clients and then sending it to you. So absolutely one of the biggest strategies May to be able to offer a A good price product is for made souls the fabrics direct from the mills. Otherwise it's just basically impossible not I'm doing the same thing. So yeah I mean whilst I try to under promise in either deliver. Generally I do promise promise like a high quality product at a very reasonable price and the only way for me to do that is to cut a lot of the middleman woman on the biggest costs in in my in saw finishings usually as the fabric when you looking at market quality products. It's generally enderle. Always the cost of fabric end. You know I have actually souls product that is sold for about one hundred and twenty dollars. What's a meeting hall sal? oppsosed it for about twenty dollars. A Mehta saw united that same product. I'm just by simply going unite tonight. Direct to the male the Arne issue without of course is that you do have to by in large quantities and now united. Because I've built dies relationships have built trust and I am able to order Loa quantities. Obviously I've got a much larger product range. So yeah I have Mojo. It is with them. How did you establish that trust early in the beginning? You know it's very difficult. You can get the position where you're over promising something that you probably won't be able the Lebron. It was very difficult. Look for me it was just about being genuine just being honest and just saying this is what I wanna the jury. I'm willing to help end. Look it was very fortunate. I was able to meet a few supplies who are very genuine and they also wanted to enter into these Kid which they went on doing directly and sorry. Yeah I don't know I guess I just May. I approached him in a very honest way. I didn't have a promise. Anything was just the case saying Nina. This is Mike All. This is what I wanted to do in. This is a potential whether it will happen. Not I 'cause I've Com promise will you come on on-board basically lackey Amina Sanofi supplies. That will definitely very keen Spain like five years now in I've been working with them for very long time it was Got A lot of authors now coming stories so obviously as Otis sided tummy story that builds on that trust and they were willing to do a lot more as well off. I wanted to take a minute and talk about the One on one coaching that I offer to entrepreneurs and small business owners were launching physical products. If you just getting started I can work with you to create a game plan based on your skill set and budget. We'll go through the product development process together an outline your specific steps to your industry or product based on your capabilities can also suggest ways that you can create or outsource workable prototypes and do feasability testing. Of course I can review your prototype and suggest you just ways that it might be simplified or improved and ways of creating drawings design specifications. If you're going to outsource design I could be your second set of eyes and check your organization keeping an eye on reducing cost where moving manufacturer ability. If you're going to hire product designer can also walk through the process of hiring somebody and reviewing their portfolios the ozone suggesting questions to ask them when design is complete. We can definitely work together to find the right manufacturer or I can ask for bids for domestic and overseas companies. For you together we can even come up with a quality plan for your manufacturer so you can balance risk with cost just some examples of tasks that I've helped other clients nights with most sessions are usually hour long and we talk on skype or through the phone you set the pace and become up with tasks that you should knock out before we meet again. I can hold you accountable and also so. Make sure that you're putting off the right sized chunk for you. I really enjoy hands on work. So if you think that you could benefit for one on one help let's go to the product startup dot com and Click on the consulting TAB to sign up for call yovany negative stories from working with suppliers. And you don't have to mention their names but is there any learning experiences that you took away from the whole sourcing and getting samples and things like that basically Trust every suppliers. Sorry it was dumb. I had one particular one where I put all my eggs into that one basket. I spent Little money that I had earned on this one in particular company This was before I found my more reliable ones and I got Promise one product than when I ordered the much larger quantity. I've got a completely different product and that took me back. I mean it wasn't a lot of money NBA. It was everything for me at the time. And it took me back on a whole year so I did have decided incited them that I had lawyers in the area. They Will Wade said we will go in there and Illegal battle with them in which case they didn't want to as sort of take that ride side they dade actually sent me the proper product by didn't work we spend again. They they did. Try to rebuild. ooh trust in in that relationship but I decided to stay away. May with Eddie Ye supplier now. I I want to buy a Sites Oughta based on the sample. I'll actually build it up slightly until they prove themselves house yet. That's a good tip and I do that as well have a product that I'm selling an Amazon for us. The shipping from China is a pretty large cost and so oh the cost to ship a partial container versus full containers almost negligible harass. So the the ramp up is actually pretty quick. So you go from samples to full containers pa-past that like I totally agree with you. You know ramping up to different container sizes and the frequency of orders. I absolutely agree. Have the manufacturer prove themselves exactly through their deeds not just their promises right exactly exactly. Like I've heard exchange many stories of people getting ripped off. I have a friend. I spent fifty thousand dollars on an order to buy electron aches and they got a little box in the mail full of US stay memory. Stakes Indaba disappeared completely star. I've had a lot of stories like that But Fa may on it was. It's it's risky in dealing with new supplies. In the time you know and I didn't have the money to due to waste. Yeah I had to be very strategic in my Parche five thousand in I let my lesson very early on In obviously now because we have grown. It's very easy for us to go. Make face to face in another big lesson that I've had that I have learned with Mitch. Flies is to have multiple supplies that can give you the same product The same quality product as well because at one point I was working with only one supplier and they were in the prices of shutting down and yet a cold it was a lot of dramas I might. Business was on standstill for about three months which is very costly and eventually they did actually sell that company nate and we were able to get started with them again. Waste a new owner of the company. But now I've gotten Supplies that I work with. And they deliver the same quality products and its whole site provides diversity unite while it's one company. Nate can give you a certain product. The other one can give you something else and one thing that we didn't talk about it. All is quality inspections. Have you used any third third party inspection services or anybody like boots on the ground so to speak and other countries to help you when you can't be there in person. I'm a huge fan of that personally because I'm not. Ebola traveled to China. Yeah Yeah I look I definitely recommend it I did use that initially by it didn't work for me because unless that particular individual company is an expert in what you're doing or what you're doing doesn't really require wire any climate expertise. It's fine but it didn't work for mate because they spent that was paying for this particular individual patrol agents. Say just wasn't worth familiar because I didn't understand like for me in terms any token dry. Praise you WANNA look at the stitching being makes shorts Yet they did not understand that it's like all signed together. That's good yeah. So there's there's a lot of detail that goes into Qa but my product to end it was a case where not decide to myself. Sorry you know every product that week get in week two Q I check. And if it's not right multiplier remakes it and we don't have to pay okay any extra for that in in a pretty honest as well lead loyal Got On. It's never really had any issues after we did all the training and there was a lot of back and foles just to get it. Ride bought yet. Once it's done riot lie get haven't had any issues no the victim. It's good to hear so as you went through this process. And you're slowly growing your business is you're growing your supplier base. I imagine what what sort of things did you do. Due on the sale side to make sure that you had additional business coming in. I know you mentioned that you start a website however you advertising that website that has been a huge challenge for me. I would say that on my K.. With sales in general very use to marketing from a very a traditional plenty but online digital marketing. That was just showing you for me and I just felt like I K- The minute that I let something than there was just chained. Some you know then remarketing came on and I just couldn't keep up So that has been one of my biggest biggest challenges by one of the things that has wet for me now is social media in all sides developing a late magnette met at having some automated email than find Kohl's yet that's interesting so what's your lead magnet for. Since you have this physical product that you're selling they give you their information. Look I tried. You know all the free repoll side tried discounts. I to try to let none of that. What may in the end one day? I didn't do this intentionally. I thought because I was getting a few requests for samples. Simple the free samples but not a law and then one day. I'm like look I I just WanNa have like a page on my side where people can order for examples pulls and off delight couple of days I had twenty request which was huge for me at the time in that. That was great because people could have the textile in front of them but even better out was the conversion rate line the conversion rate. HMA is about fifty to seventy five percent from that one lead magnet. Yeah that's when I decided I K that's going to be my lead eight magnet and I'll build that whole concept of having a funnel around that well it makes sense to because I imagine that you provide some exclusive fabrics that are at least difficult to source the might someone might get close. But if they're picking one yeah I'm looking at some of your patterns here if they're picking something that's very specific it's going. It'd be difficult for them to take your lead magnet and go somewhere else with it. Yeah because I suppose my product directly from the mills on nobody else has any of my product. Yeah unless they're retail so that sells it or You know they buy three. May there's nowhere else that they're going to be able to get any of that product from so. Oh how are you able to ship out all these samples for free while you're running your business. Now have an Admin said who does that so soon as requests come. I'm story We send it out. The next day ascended out express which colts me about seven to ten dollars to send out. But it's definitely aflaid west at for me because it's usually very likely that I'll be added. Is that sale. So let's talk about your funnel for a little bit. You mentioned that this ample process this is a big part of that so far from what I understand it based on your explanation some along will brass to the site though see that. There's a free sample but none the website. They'll hit it the fill out their information. Pick their samples. They'll get the samples in the mail. I imagine you follow up with them with a series of emails at some point. Get sorry the facts thing I do is I actually follow up with a fine. Coal sideline my family's not just online but also on my defiant in history male so a lot with a coal and then depending on how that guys I take invite the next of action sometimes times after the one coal ready to make note a bit looking in this industry it usually takes about four to six weeks before somebody places off So then my next series is a series of emails. And it's not so much around all this is what we do or selling my product or anything like that. It's more just emails saying what can we do for you. What are the things for example? Um that I have mentioned before was that we can do sketches. So if they're on shore of what's going to look like we can't do sketches end I send them an amount around that and that really like they loved that the fact that offer it for Mine Jay. They never asked me to do it. It's very rare that I've had to do sketches so the next staying just have more emails. You know it site cannot give you some o- samples things like that in people generally say yeah and I wouldn't mind some more callers. Even his email automated Respond to them search. It's small conversation like my emails very very simple. It's more like an actual personal email is opposed to like mass bulk. Email yet and I get response from that and then I continue with my follow up. Calls which a never sales pitches aren't anything like that. It's just like you know. How can I help you waste designing uh-huh product? Usually what I say to them is what is it that you wanting to achieve. Because sometimes it's not about just looking at the the window finishing that a look at the whole interior awesome. You know what is it that you want to shave in your interior and we look at it from that perspective. Sometimes kids isn't the mice appropriate Organiz. Do Tell them and obviously I on. The cell cat is dynamic shea. Sell blinds are the things in their light all day. They appreciate the fact that I'm honest ashed or whatever they have in mind sometimes it's not appropriate to give them a lot of because they're doing it themselves actually measuring themselves. Doing the whole process assists themselves might give them a lot of technical advice and tips and I really appreciate that sorry. I think that's probably why I've got a high convention right with that particular magnet. So do you make the calls yourself whenever you could follow up on these leads now. I do actually have sales staple and they conversion rate is law than mine. I think Because yeah like they want to sell. I just want to hell bow. I JUST WANNA see my product in they harm for May. Obviously it is about the money but for me at the end of the day is valid just serving that satisfaction of saying my product in the harm and being able to help them to achieve a beautiful interior. So Yeah I highlight. I call people from the. How can I help you? Standpoint this set of fina buy my product in built a lot of relationships they will refer me me onto other customers. Essentially I do some of the Kohl's I that's what I love Bobble the Admin accounting outside. I knew that things thanks bye. Love is just helping a police. I try to do as much as I can make that. And then I've got some I've got a south-south that does my I web based in I also hall sow now so I've got somebody that deals with dice hall sal on clients in that totally different to online. Yes we'll talk about that a little bit while we have some time. How did you get the wholesale clients to begin with and did you did you? Did you start with the smaller under the wholesale accounts and work your way up or just go for the jugular so speaking go for the largest accounts who can mainly the smaller ones in Wasilla told my hotel ladies I get from trade shows I do get some now from instagram. Haven't been on Instagram for very long. I've had quite a lot of interior designers Combo there I've also got retail stores That my product and yet that's mainly anything. Straight trade shows all size trae like personal connections out that I've had I've just to make it clear to everybody else. I imagine that your product doesn't can have any type of protection on it in terms of intellectual property protection like a patents or anything like that doesn't the people will beat me over the head if I don't ask that question but I think a lot of a lot of the Allow the differentiation especially from a business like yours comes from from the unique value that you cry provide especially from the sourcing that you're able to do like you said you're going directly to the mills getting pricing. That's better than anybody else. And you're more accessible supposed to your customers through your online presence. Plus you're able to basically sell a custom order products so unless someone's willing to go through all that trouble to duplicate your efforts pretty much have a you know almost like a trade secret so to speak. Yes exactly any like I said before I always try to be one. Go ahead so my vision is always to five years ahead SAR Obviously like there are other people especially Shiites as doing online draperies huge in the US. Yeah Yeh Knew this more now. But look. They're priced too. It also sort of trying to apply the traditional way of doing it on the line whereas for me. I'm just trying to scrap the the traditional way of selling Dr raise completely and just try to reinvent the wheel. Not that's what for Mesa in Info my customers take my customers. What are the things that when The kind of feedback that I received from them is that you know. Waste your traditional retailers retailers that go into a high particularly if it's very Market High and they give the price. That's a lot higher than what they would give another client for example and that's very common in this industry mistrial whereas with may my customers can go online and get a price instantly. Everybody gets same price. It's very transparent. Meena I've doubt wave is the kind of clients that I deal with now are pretty much mansions. Wins in very odd market hines and they buying my product Punished at the price ice Where it's for some other clients? That are more budget conscious. My price might be very expensive for them. Sorry yet my target is very much is is people that Particularly have the money to buy strew like a an interior designer bought. They do what they amos thing. They need a quality product yet because of the Heimlich kind of time that they have. Yeah I appreciate you sharing that with the audience especially going through the thought process process because as you said it's a journey journey. What's your perspective on failure? Like I look at failure as data point and I'm an engineer and so For All the failures that I have that gives me feedback to improve. What is your take on that? Look I totally agree like I said I actually had a business in the same industries and I'd never realized he had failed. I never thought night. Like you're not gonNA move onto the extent May everything that I do is a learning curve and I died take failure too hot. Got To not a main like for me it's about embracing it signed bracing In doing something a lot greater in big AW. We sat experience perfect perfect attitude. Thank you for sharing that Elyssa. Where can people go and find your draperies? And are there any stores or anything like that where they can go find them. Yes yes I've thank God to. A website eats pawtucket P. R. T. I. E. R. E. E. DOT COM dot a u End On there yet. They can have a look at some of the other schools so we have stoles on the sunshine cars the gold cars in Sydney and also Melbourne. And yet they can just file mine. will pick so much for sharing that with us and before I let you go I always want to ask. Do you have that one tip for somebody. That's Kinda struggling. They're just starting out and they feel like they're not getting anywhere. And and what's your best tips to make sure that they stay the course looking to have a couple of keys to success that is sort of hold onto End At look for May number one would be business models. Try to find a business model that will bring high profits that is very easy to run like. Businesses can get very complex. But if you have the right business model you can keep the very simple Adaptability having the ability to change end ole SAR aiming for excellence it's on a continuous basis. Sounds like a whole plate. Yeah we'll thanks again. Alice really appreciate your advice to everybody and thanks again for coming on the show. I wish you all the best all the success in your business. Thank you very much. Thank you Joe. I hope that you enjoyed our talk with Alice. Here are my three takeaways for this week. Number one differentiate your business. Don't waste the bottom on price. House created a different business model that when her competitors were using thing Howard you standing apart from other similar products on the market. Do you think that's enough to win. More market share number to be flexible house changed her business business model multiple times. The same applies to products. Don't expect to design the right product at the beginning. Listen to your customers and pivot designer business if you don't get traction. My mom always told me. It's not the strongest animal in the jungle that survives. It's the one that is quick to adapt and number three focus on continuous improvement. As easy as it is to start a business now at similarly easy to fall behind if you don't spend enough time to improve your processes and leverage the the new tools that make it easier to develop and manufacture new products and grow your marketing and sales and interact with your customers so set aside time every month month or every quarter to explore the new tools and different business models. That are out there. If you'd like to get these takeaways in your inbox just go to the product. STARTUP DOT COM. Scroll to the footer of any page and sign up to the weekly wrap up. You'll get my three takeaways for each guest along with interesting articles free tools and inspiring innovations that that will help you with your own product star. So I have a bit of an announcement from this point forward. I'm moving from a weekly show to bimonthly show and that's actually for a few reasons seasons. I'm working with more clients now and spending more time on my Amazon product. I'm also working as a mentor at a local startup incubator called station in Houston. If you're a long-time listener of the show you'll know that I bought a foreclosed home that was boarded up and I renovated it from the studs up. My mom has been a realtor for the last three decades and I'm going to take over her real estate investments and businesses as she moves into retirement. So as I've taken on these projects it's been increasingly difficult to dedicate a day or sometimes two days a week to the site and podcast. Each episode of the show takes me about seven hours to produce from finding guests to recording and editing audio and creating the notes and marketing it. I really like doing the podcast. And I'm going to keep it going as long as I can. The monthly downloads of the show continued to grow at least ten percent. Every month. Last month the product start up to over sixty two hundred downloads. So thank you to everyone who listens and passes the podcast along to their friends. So join me next time as I speak about manufacturing. We'll have a guest host. Kirsten Ross of crowdfunding uncut will actually interview me so tune in in two weeks to hear that episode code. Thanks again for joining me today. I hope that you're taking action on developing your products.