55 - Sam Fiorani and AutoForecast Solutions
Uh from commedia. We're in the middle of the big disruption in the industry definitely in our lifetime and perhaps the biggest one since the self starter over one hundred years ago. That was the voice of sam. Fiorani our guest today on cars that matter. This is caused that matter. This is robert ross. Welcome to another episode of cars. That matter i am here with samphier ronnie onny vice president global vehicle forecasting with auto forecast. Solutions sounds nouri daunting and indeed. It is because there's a lot of crystal ball activity goes on in your world. Isn't there sam. Absolutely welcome to our podcast. You publish the automotive forecasts solutions monthly report. Which is is. I gather really kind of an inside. Look at the state of the auto industry. But i tell us about your own car self sam. you had quite a trajectory. Haven't yet. I mean you've sold cars restored cars you write about cars. And of course he'd been an industry analyst for a long time where to start. I've been and all my life. My folks said that. I used to identify cars by their headlights or taillights. When i was two as i was growing up i wanted to be a car designer and i stumbled through my college years. My engineering background did not pick up as well as i had hoped would but i took a different detoro went onto economics which led me to the auto industry where i've been an analyst now for about twenty five years. It's amazing how the stuff all just sort of comes together and sometimes you end up with a job that you actually never thought you'd have. I go to schools and tell kids that the job you want the job that you'll get may not be one of those ones you see on tv or your parents had or things like that. There are so many jobs out there that we as kids never saw never made aware of so. I let the kids know. There's a job out there for you if you just look you'll find one that fits your personality and your likes and as the saying goes if you have a job you love. You never worked a day in your life. You literally created your current job when you involved in the launch of auto forecasts solutions and twenty fourteen. Is that right with. The company was founded in two thousand fourteen. I was the initial forecaster for vehicles. That team that we put together has together for most of the last twenty two years we know each other and we can catch our faults in support our strength or were really well oiled machine. I don't imagine you use a crystal ball or a tarot deck. But what does automotive for casting really mean. I have a really good dartboard a magic eight balk and that's how we were. You guys usually pretty right on at least fifty percent of the time We're really good. The great part about forecasting is that you are guaranteed to be wrong. You just have to be better than the next guy. That's our goal is to provide the most in depth forecasts as detailed as we can get so we can get them accurate. Our methodology works really well and has been honed over the last twenty years or more. We really good job of forecasting every vehicle produced around the world in every plant. Currently we work about sixty in the world. It's a few thousand vehicles at heaven's my mind is about ready to explode because in my little world you read a few books that a little bit of opinion as little bit of subjective this and that but obviously you're crunching some serious numbers. The first number you mentioned was sixty countries around the world telling me some sixty countries that are manufacturing medical we have sixty countries that actually build cars. There are even more that assemble cars. The we treat assembly differently so if a kid comes from the manufacturer in one country and ship another and they just barely take it apart to ship it across the border just to get around taxes. That's called semi knock down kits and so those kits. We don't count where they're assembled their where the parts come from but everything else is assembled or produced in as many as sixty countries around the world. obviously we know about america and canada and mexico. And you know a few places in europe. And i think south africa and then a course china japan korea. But i couldn't come up with sixty. It's bewildering concept. So obviously you are deep as heck into the auto business. Maybe we should jump into one topic that i suspect you know a lot about know absolutely nothing about in. It's the concept of vs electric vehicles boy. The conversations always seemed to start these days talking about electric vehicles. Don't they were in the middle of the biggest disruption in the industry definitely in our lifetime and perhaps the biggest one since the self starter over one hundred years ago right cadillac self starter in nineteen twelve and my right right right absolutely prior to that if you were too weak to turn a hand crank and hand cranks on cars. Were dangerous things if you were too weak to do that. You had an electric car or steam car and the self starter allowed everybody to drive a gasoline car and it was much easier to refill. There was less maintenance and it went farther than electric vehicle by the mid teens. Every car had a self starter and everybody could drive one and now all of a sudden the hundred years later things have been turned upside down again because e visa back. And i guess they are all the rage. The future kind of seems inevitable. They're clean and the new vehicles are so powerful and so quick. We drove a tesla about ten years ago. I swore the front wheels came off the ground when i accelerated in that car. It was just so quick and that wasn't even a high performance version of the model s. So we're fully expecting a lot of high performance cars to be electric in just the next few years just because they are so quick and they're clean when you have a v twelve or a turbocharged v eight they pollute and getting around all the restrictions around the world is really difficult with an internal combustion engine but with an electric vehicle. It's easy is ev. Technology evolving very quickly or we place where manufacturers of sort of charted the course based on existing technology and. It's not gonna change a whole lot. It's going to change since the first internal combustion engine car about one hundred forty years ago. Since then we've had one hundred and forty years of development of the. I see they have clean them up. They have fuel injected them. They have done all kinds of work on these cars at internal combustion engine. Today is a fantastic piece of machinery. Electric vehicles also dated back to about the same time. But there's this lull of about eighty years where nobody touched them so we were running on lead acid batteries for one hundred years on the vs. That were around. It's only been about twenty years now that we've worked in two different types of batteries and over the next twenty years you're going to see huge huge advances in battery technology does the onslaught of the ev sort of spill impending doom for the internal combustion. Engine probably not in our lifetime. But you'll see that a lot more will be on the road. I'm doing estimates going out to twenty forty and we're looking at a substantial amount of the market will be by then but the longer term is for something cleaner than a battery because batteries are a dirty technology themselves even though they don't pollute themselves so moving onto something like a hydrogen fuel cell would move to the same technology that we're using for vs. Just you can refuel with hydrogen and the pollution is water. That's right so what you're dealing with. Their a major infrastructure system that would allow that to actually flourish and increase worldwide. Absolutely we have to figure out a way to cleanly make hydrogen because the methods that do it now. We have the same issues with batteries and hydrogen at the process. That makes them. isn't that clean. So if we can get the process cleaner is so that it becomes cleaner than using abilene engine. That'll be the end result. So you're telling me there's no free lunch yet. There's no free lunch. You still have to pay for allegedly may have senior coupon but we still have to pay for it. Okay i get it but we're going to get there and we're going to get there eventually. Let's assume that these these takeover let's look at the current state of the landscape. Obviously the industry is dominated by one company worth multiple billions of dollars value too far more than any reasonable economist would allow. What's going on there as tesla's still the eight hundred pound gorilla or is it going to be other companies that are launching. Maybe we don't even know their name yet. Tesla is big boy in the room right now and a lot of people look at tesla as not so much a car company as a technology company. I have analysts in our office. Conrad who tells us all the time. That tesla is not a car. A tesla is an iphone. Tesla is the technology that connects the driver to the data that other companies will use eventually so because tesla's are so well connected. They know what you're doing and they know how you're doing it and all that data will be monetize later on and other companies will step up and do the same thing. So that's the big reason why it's valuable as it is now but there are more companies coming. We're doing a survey now and we have about one hundred thirty startup. Companies that are looking to get into the ev space. So is this like those little turtles that kind of hatch from the beach and they scramble and the seagulls is swooping down alive and only about two of them survived. There are going to be a lot of these eaten by seagulls. Trust me enter spread across all world. Markets san are they in america or the europe. Are they in some distant realm because the vs don't have emissions they're easier to sell in different countries. A lot of companies are starting up in countries that you wouldn't expect cars to be built and these companies are starting off with brand new cars brand new infrastructure starting from scratch entrepreneurs in africa entrepreneurs in small countries in asia entrepreneurs in the united states and europe are all stepping up to make these new vehicles and crack into this industry. Let me ask you about the technology. In the ev space. Is this all proprietary or is it being shared in other words. It's everybody working with the same set of building blocks or are they actually seeking some philosopher's stone of ev. So they can do it differently than everybody else. The better companies have come up with some sort of technology that they're basing their vehicle on something proprietary to them but a lot of these companies are looking at the supplier industry. And this is how the whole automotive industry works is that. There's a supplier out. There who provides for icees they provide fuel injection systems or transmissions or all these different components. The same thing happens with the vs. There's a company making batteries and there's a company making motors and controllers. And all these different pieces that you need to build the electric vehicle. It's easy to pull stuff off the shelf and make an electric vehicle but it becomes an appliance at that point. The is piece that you have to yourself. Tesla's vehicles are super fast. That's their own motors. And they're working on new battery technology. So they do have a lot of components that are exclusively to them. How are the legacy. Oem's gonna would that they are we looking at a bunch of tyrannosaurs and diplomat. Oh casses and stegosauruses that are kind of just gonna get consumed by a swamp and disappear. They're hoping not they're stepping up right. Now you'll see little steps right now. These aren't small companies. It's hard to turn the titanic though when you have a company like ford or general motors that has built an industry for the last one hundred ten hundred and twenty years making icees. Changing over to these is not a single step so they each come out with one car or two cars to make them leap and they're eventually going to get there but the big deal is the stockholders want a technology company. They don't want these legacy dinosaurs. So general motors and ford are trying to re envision their own company to let the stockholders know that general motors is no longer the company making cadillacs and hummers. they're making chevrolet bolts and cadillac leaks in all these new modern electric vehicles and ford is doing the same thing. Well i guess it's going to be a matter of time to see who excels at that process and who nuances that just correctly. Abs about automotive styling. Maybe there are some other attributes that these cars have to bring along for the ride to make them as appealing as some of the legacy models with legacy brands. I know certainly in the high performance car arena. It's really shaking things up nowadays. You've got obviously the hybrid electrics from ferrari and porsche and lamborghinis probably soon coming around mclaren already has it's changing but certainly a lot of consumer resistance as well as consumer kind excitement. It's a. it's a strange combination of emotions. Getting a person to change from what they know getting somebody to turn away from their ford explorer or chevy suburban or something that they are used to over the years of driving and knowing where to refuel it and knowing that the range is three hundred or four hundred miles before. I have to stop for gas and knowing that you won't be stranded somewhere when the battery dies because you forgot to look to see that you didn't charge it last night. It's a different world. You just have to be ready for it and buyers will be ready when they step up by their ford mustang machi or chevrolet volt uv. Yesterday i had the pleasure to do some testing on ferrari a twelve. Gts that's probably just about as wild willia- conventional internal combustion engine is. He got us. Eight hundred horsepower. Car revs the nine thousand rpm and sweden. Mother of that car is fantastic. I guess what performances sorta getting level doesn't because he get behind the wheel of tesla with all the electrical trimmings and trappings in that car is all of a sudden as quick as anything on the planet had. Somebody asked me the other day about some new model that just came out and it had zero to sixty time in four seconds and he was appalled that it was four seconds. That's forever combat electric car. That's right it's really true. So i mean we got a situation now sam where i really wonder if performance means much anymore because the the plainfield has been completely leveled. All of these things are stupid. Quick stupid fast. I guess my question is what in the future will be important. What's really going to distinguish these cars. One from another the problem is that the future of privately owned vehicles may be a short term thing and so when we eventually get around to autonomous vehicles. Which i'm hoping isn't anytime soon but when we eventually get there. What do you care about the performance of the vehicle. Because you're just gonna be sitting in reading a book or watching a movie or doing work. Or what have you and letting the vehicle drive for you. It's not about the enjoyment of the drive at that point. It's about getting me from point. Eight point b. is still like driving my car. I still have a car with a stickshift. As a matter of fact driving the car is definitely an enjoyment for me. And i'm not looking forward to win. I'm forced to have an autonomous vehicle. I'm looking forward to the day when other people are forced to drive autonomous vehicles so that they don't swerve into my down as i'm driving to work. Well you know it's funny. I was other freeway yesterday and imagining just the same thing that it really will be a better world in some ways when the rise of autonomy allows most people to maybe not be quite as ill equipped to actually drive a car. Some of them appear to be. I'll put that very delicately right. This leaving it at that. We're going to take a short break. But we'll be right back on medicine where still practicing joined dr steven tailback and bill kurtis for real conversations with the medical professionals who have their finger on the pulse of healthcare in the modern world available on all your favorite podcasting platforms produced by kirk co media. We're back with sam pierotti. What about some other trips because as a part of your forecasting. Obviously you look at these other trends and i don't even know where to start this shift from passenger cars to trucks like you look around you this. They're hardly any cars left as a person who enjoys driving a car and i have a four door sedan. I understand the draw to a car. I understand the appeal of a truck. The additional utility the sitting up higher and seen over my car when you're sitting in traffic the whole movement towards trucks started thirty years ago when we had a rule in the federal laws called cafe corporate average fuel economy and the way the cafe was set up. Cars had a tighter rules than trucks. Did so if you were to buy a car. The manufacturer had average twenty seven miles per gallon across their fleet of cars but they had to average twenty four across the fleet of trucks. So wouldn't it make more for them to push you towards a truck especially when the truck made more money. That's right so sort of get out of jail card. Free for these manufacturers. It all of a sudden they change the mindset absolutely and that's when the ford explorer came about and that's when the rise of the sport utility came about and everybody started shifting over to these station wagons that were built on truck bodies on truck chassis. But they would have been called a station wagon just ten or fifteen years earlier but now all of a sudden. We have the suv in well. We know how that turned out. It's a big move that the whole market made and we just came along for the ride because that's what we were told to buy. We need to have a sport utility now and when your neighbor has one suddenly that's the thing to have and i've got to have my sport utility to go with this. Suv truck media. Is this a us kind of thing. Or is this a worldwide phenomenon. It started in the us but we migrated to every country of the world. We've called them crossovers now. But they're technically trucks with their physically cars and they're just a little bit taller. Give you that higher point of view from the car. But it's still a car it's still based on a front wheel drive chassis. It's related to your honda. Civic or your toyota corolla but now by law they call it a truck and they're popping up everywhere in the world. They're all over china. They're all over europe. Everybody wants to build one now. We certainly in america have visions of what's happening on that part of the world in terms of politics and industry and economies and all the challenges that are faced by an economy essentially. That's positioning sell to take over the universe. What's going on in china in terms of cars. I've heard they have the most ferocious automotive appetite the world. Well they do have well over a billion people there and when you compare it to the united states which has a hoarder as many people in the united states we sell on a good year seventeen million vehicles they have the potential for a huge market there in the last few years. They've been in the low twenty million range up to about twenty four twenty five twenty six million units in a year in a good market. That number should be forty or fifty. If you're going by the same standards you're going by the united states. It's a great potential for any car company. That wants to start up to launch production in china. Because you have so many potential buyers so let me ask this of. I'm guessing that if these were all internal combustion engine. We'd all basically be gasping for air and ten years so that essentially back to the. Ev they sorta have to be something else. They can't be internal combustion engine. Yes the internal combustion. Engine was the car of choice. In china. they have cleaned up their act over the last ten fifteen twenty years where the newer cars are more on par with the rest of the world for emissions but they are really pushing now for vs because they want to corner the market. They wanna be the country that provides the world with vs. And they're doing it. They have so many companies pushing these new vehicles. So let me guess this. Then sam. European cars for instance are still considered the benchmark for luxury and prestige. You've got your super high end brands. I think they even love buicks for that matter for some reason. That's a popular brand in china. But you're saying that they're vs would then be the go to brands that would be purchased around the world including america. They're easier to sell and other countries so these companies that want to start. Exporting can easily bring an 'cause they bring something new to the party in the united states we have so many brands to choose from you have ranged from bare bones. Cars alway up to high luxury cars. What is their new. That a chinese brand could bring to the party. There's just nothing there. And it's not like back in the eighties. When the koreans came back in the sixties when the japanese game or back in the forties when the germans came in it came in on price. That's not going to happen again. Because it took each of these countries and their products probably twenty years before their cars got the status to sell at an average price. The chinese are not going to come in there. They've seen how this has been done. They're not gonna come in and say oh we're just going to undercut everybody takes market share especially when a car today so nice that a used car a car off lease for two or three years is priced as good as you're gonna get for any low end car and you're buying a two year old cadillac or lexus. Or something is decent car to start with. There's a lot of competition all throughout the market. That's interesting obviously. A whole different discussion could be had about what happens to all these cars terms the volume of cars coming back off lease. They're essentially new cars. Because guess what karston. Don't break like they used to break. And these things get us soldier on in perpetuity. Their maintains it sort of has one imagining but there are multiple cars for any single individual. When i was growing up each family might have two cars and when the kid turned sixteen he had to borrow mama. Dad's car today. A lot of kids have their own car when during sixteen or seventeen if they want. One and cars are reliable even at high mileage. When i was a kid just not too long ago. One hundred thousand miles when you throw away the car. It wasn't going to last us that in our current household fleet here we have two cars approaching hundred thousand miles and two cars. Two hundred plus. It's a different world and guess what they won't die. You find a good car and treat it well. It will last a long long time. Let's talk about these manufacturers. For minute i remember back in the seventies. I bought a launch shia. I think i was about one of two people in america. Who did i had a candidate who was very press yet. He said you know rob by the turn of the century. There'll be about seven car manufacturers left. I thought steve was out of his mind. What do you mean. Seven manufacturers left. I could count fifty right now. Guess what the marks may be around the brands. Maybe around but they're owned by a handful of people and today the corporate consolidation is getting even more extreme. I mean obviously this whole lantis merger that has like fourteen marks together and some strange bedfellows too. i mean citron's it on citron's and maserati haven't slept in the same bed for her for forty years. That's divisive bought the company. What's going on there. Are we going to have one big brother owning all these brands. The future years ago i worked for standard and poor's dri as an analyst. Right about the time i started. There was when they announced the dime. The chrysler merger and one of the magazines called me up and asked me what i thought about it and i said pretty much what you just said. I quoted somebody else who had once said in the next twenty years. There will be ten car companies in the world. If you looked at it there were about that. Many the number of i did a chart one time on all the brands that are currently owned by the top ten manufacturers in the world and it's over two hundred brands over the years going all the way back to the beginning they have run through about two hundred brands over the top. Ten manufacturers in the it's amazing how they've consolidated so much but the consolidation continues except for the fact that china cayman and with china coming in they've added another forty or fifty manufacturers. If you treat. China like the united states was a hundred years ago where we had three thousand manufacturers in the united states alone. Did we really. The estimates are three thousand thirty five hundred in the united states alone and maybe five thousand around the world back in the teens and twenties. Good heavens so when you look at china there at that stage now they are where everybody gets in and starts making a car. The weak ones will fall by the wayside. The middle strong ones we'll get purchased by the big strong ones and we'll be down to a handful of manufacturers again of course china's coming back and buying a lot of western brands to. That's how they're going to sell around. The world is by having a brand that everybody knows volvo. Mg they tried to buy rover and saab. There were a bunch of these nameplates scooped up and decided they're well known in the western world there. Local brands are not that well known. So we'll right off the back of these names that everybody knows. That's a really an incredible journey. Obviously you're at the forefront of describing and predicting it with photo forecast must be incredible job but a lot of responsibility to sam because like you say you want to be right that we have some great clients who really appreciate what we bring to the table. The customer service we provide is fantastic because we lived the stuff. We really enjoy this. We just didn't fall into this industry. This was the industry that chose us. And we bring a love of cars to the business. So i can tell you love cars. We're gonna talk about that after we take a break but before we do want to ask you one more question. Can you let us in on any secrets. Cine forecast that may not touch on anything. We've talked about yet or maybe to phrase it differently. What's going to be the most important thing that happens in. Twenty twenty two for instance in the short term. And there's not a lot but as we said are coming and so more and more vehicles are going electrified or electric hybrid or they're fully electric and so things like cadillac has already announced that in the next five or ten years. They're going to be fully electric with the one little bit of information that we leaked out recently. Was that the next generation. Mustang the current gender will be replaced next year. The one after that will be an easy heavy inside. I did something component. I grew up with mustangs but because if you want to have. Extreme performance electric is the way to go back in. Just a moment here on cars that matter. Welcome to life done better. Listen to the weekly episodes where supermodel and health coach. Jill diong talks to some of the world's most inspiring women in health and wellness. It's the place for all the unicorns. Who's strive to create a life on their own terms. Join us to explore. Discover and create a life done better together. Listen and subscribe from kurt co media media for your mind. We'll come back to cars that matter back to sam. Let's talk about sam fiorani for minute. You're a prolific writer. You've known so many people in the field of automotive journalism. One of my questions to start would be who are some of your greatest influences some of the people that kind of pumped craft your style and your trade. I've read so many different riders and enjoyed all their work and about thirty years ago. I was fresh out of college. I was trying to find something to do. And what i really wanted to do. Was get in with a group of people who liked cars so we can sit around and just talk about cars for hours on end. So somebody pointed me towards the anti-god mobile club. How that sounds perfect. I everybody. I knew growing up within a they had car so i joined a local. Aca at twenty five years old. The problem with aca is that it's not so much a car club as it is a club of people who own cars those people at the time. Where a lot older than me. So i'm twenty five years old sitting at dinner with sixty and seventy year old people who are discussing about how their friends retired to florida or their kids are having grandkids. And they weren't talking about their cars. They were talking about their friendships and such. This isn't this isn't the group for me. So one day. I was watching a show on one of the networks and it was about the great cars of all time the top ten greatest cars of all time. They counted down the cars and they had these talking heads. Come on explain why this car was so great and one of the people came up. Was beverly rate times and it said automotive historian president society of automotive historians my. I've never heard of that group. That sounds like the group for me. This is the pre internet age. I had of historian friend crackdown. How can get in touch with them. I tracked him down and joined an essay. H became a board member. One point this was a group of people like minded like again. They were like the people they were a little bit older than. I was at the time but they had a wealth of automotive knowledge that i just sucked up as the sponge. It was fantastic and beverly. Rae was one of the people. I was fortunate enough to meet their. She was a fantastic writer. She was the editor of quarterly for decades very prolific writer in her own. Right fantastic woman. She was a great inspiration to me. We're on zoom call right now. Our audience can't see you looking behind you. I see a entire book as full of automobile quarterlies and boy. What a great library that. Those are the distinguishing characteristic of a serious automotive historian. So i am impressed. But i'm not surprised sam when i was a kid. I had a neighbor who had a nice collection of old car. So i would ride my bike over to his house and he would clean up his model t or is this oto and i would talk to him. And one day took me into his house and showed me his collection of all quarterly. I it's a great great book. I loved those. So i spent probably the next thirty or forty years trying to track down all of the books back to the early sixties and i have a decent collection of them. I'm still. I still got holes in the collection. But i'm working on film them but you certainly did. A lot of writing done a very entertaining series of articles Automotive traveler and had a chance to enjoy some of those. I mean and really essentially traveling tours the touch on subjects. That have nothing to do with cars. But they're awfully fine wine beer even to record store tour by guesses at your at lp fan between cars and music. Those are my two biggest afflictions. I guess i collect pieces of both. I had a nice little record collection but at about ten years ago my buddy and i decided we were going to go to record stores and we were gonna hit six record stores in three states in one day so we loaded up the car and planned the whole thing out. We found the store that opened the store that opened the latest. We planned it out so we can stretch it across three states in seven stores. We piled in the car on saturday morning and it was a freak october snowstorm that day. We've been planning this for six months. And it was snowing that one day so we ended up going to a couple stores and as we were driving we drove through pennsylvania and new jersey and we got into new jersey and our next door was back in pennsylvania but the snowstorm was across northern pennsylvania and northern new jersey. And we knew that if we went to that store we weren't getting out so we had to cut off one of the sources of our seven and head south and head to baltimore for last two stores so it was supposed to be seven. It ended up being six and it was a great tour. We as a matter of fact we were one store. When the power went out we had flashlights from our phones to read what was on the shelves of the store. That's quite a scavenger hunt. I gotta tell you as a bit of a record collector myself. I know that sometimes it takes quite a bit of time to find your so special albums how many you come back with. We've two or three milk crates full of records. We came out of there. I was looking for. Johnny cash live at folsom prison. I was looking at. I'm a big prince fan. So i was looking for prints records that i didn't have in my collection. They're all kinds of interesting little novelties. We found that we couldn't find anywhere else. I like to cut up in the program. Where the question of the always guests and obviously gonna throw this at you know trick questions. There's no right or wrong answer. If somebody handed the keys to three cars that you could have what would they be. I always joke about Whenever i see a big warehouse and like be a good start for my collection. Because i have so many cars that i would love to have but if you had to narrow it down to three cars it would have to be no a good collector car. Something really really nice would be one of them. My favorite there is a bugatti royale. Only six of them and they are spectacularly big and fantastically built cars. The royale was built on a dare. Basically somebody said Tori regarding your cars aren't rolls royces. And he said well. I'm going to go out and build a rolls royce. So the royale was the end product. If i'm not mistaken the engine in that car was initially designed to power Locomotives as ever the remnants of the engines. Is they built six cars. They built thirty engines so the other engines went into two trains in france really credible. Oh god what a story. So if i have that as my collector car i need a daily driver and my daily driver. I have always been infatuated with avantis when i was a kid. My uncle had a friend who had a seventy eight of auntie to and i just loved the styling of it but i would want an avant a touring sedan. They built them one year. It's the four model. My god you are dredging up. Some of the weirdest of the weird. I know that car and it is absolutely the. it's like. A four door fell vega. They did make a few of them. But most people don't know that and fewer would even imagine that they ever had when they came out with a touring sedan. The pictures just looked terrible. I could not believe what they did. That beautiful car. And then i went to the dealership and saw one and i just fell in love with that. It looks completely different than it did pictures and i wanted that car. How many think they made him seventy. Okay okay yeah. And i had a chance to buy one a few years ago and i passed on it and like been kicking myself ever since. We'll maybe it'll come around there certainly not thick on the ground but i don't imagine they have a line of guys wait the by one either. So maybe you're not too many now. I'm that guy maybe your tie will You got one more car. What's it gonna be nice driver sports car of some sort and there's so many to choose from and this is heresy for an mg fan. But i i would really really really liked to have something like a triumph. Tr five or probably more in line with. I would like to have an rv eight okay so first of all most people are gonna say Sam they never made a triumph tr fi but of course we know they did. Tell us what that car is. The british shop. I worked for. I worked for steel motors in an old pennsylvania. When i was working there my boss found different cars in different places and he had at one time he had to. Tr two fifties tr to fifty was the step in between the tr. Four and the six and it was the american version whereas the tr five was the version. Everybody else got with fuel injection and because at the time fuel injection did not pass american emissions. We had to have a carburetor version. So we got the two fifty and it was a six cylinder. Tr for basically that's right. I love that car. Or it's basically a tr four with six cylinder engine that was Eventually found its way into the tr. Six sort of like the best of both worlds absolutely no. It looked good and it had that engine. Just read so nicely. It was fantastic sam. You've got great tasty picked type. Forty one royale. You've got the weirdest of anti in the world and maybe one of the sweetest little triumphs that. Mg on the other hand was quite a rarity obviously never made its way here. Small block v eight that car. Wow when the british motor heritage reproduced. Mg bodies and rover was looking to relaunch the brand. They brought it back with the re bodied mgb from the seventies with a modern landrover. Engine inside it and it was a fantastic looking little car. I like how they did it. Sam thanks so much for joining us today. This is kind of been not only a traveling back in time but a little bit of future travel to. I don't get a chance to do that with most of our guests because they're usually in one time dimension or the other but you have definitely crossed all the time dimension. It's been a fascinating conversation. I wanna thank you for being on cars better. Thanks for having me. This has been so much fun. Thanks to samphier on a vice president global forecasting of auto forecast solutions for joining us today and guards the matter come back next time as we continue to talk about the passions. Drive us and the passions. We drive this up episode of cars. That matter was hosted by robert ross. Produced by. Chris porter edited by chris porter theme song by celestin arithmetic additional music and sound by chris. Quarter please like subscribe and share this. Podcast i'm robert ross. And thanks for listening. Comb media media for your mind.