Thank you for listening to this podcast. One production available on apple podcasts and podcast. One. One of the most annoying and time consuming things in the entire world is moving, and the worst part about moving is trying to find a new place to live that you absolutely love. And that's why I love one of our new sponsors apartments dot com and I actually use them to find my apartment that I live in now. So I love on a sponsor comes on that. I actually use in love and know about so apartments dot com has the most listings, which means you have the most apartments townhomes condos and houses to choose from to lock your full potential, and become the best version of yourself. You're in control of your rental future, and not to mention they have custom search tool. So if you're looking for something specific like pet friendly or commute friendly. You'll find it there and there's more with apartments dot com. What you see is what you rent they comb through all the listings, make sure all the information is verified and up to date. So no more wishing that you found your dream home and ends up being not even available at all. They're making hunting for a new process a breeze. So visit apartments dot com to find. The next place to rent change your apartment and change the world. Degree degree degree degree. I the first degree. He thinks he's supposed to happen in movies. Not we'll light. It wasn't very long after it was like a month or something after we had left college and had come home to my parents house that I walked in the door, and a member them watching the news, and they just turned and looked at me. And my mom said, I don't know, something to the sex of something happened to one of your sorority sisters and I was like what he's talking about. And then they just turned up the news. And I mean, it was all over the place at it was they were just describing what had happened will what they knew at that point. And that they didn't know what happened or who did it? But this is very of the way that he beat her. Is unbelievable. I don't I can't even fathom that kind of anger coming out of somebody. Pig is welcome to the first degree the true crime podcast that you might end up on. My name is Jack Vanik. I'm drinking corona. I'm sitting across Rolex this link linkletter drinking Arosa and next to Billy Johnson, who is out of beer who was finished as curl only brought to. So it'd be doesn't get any more. I mean, the only brought to so now we're done. I'm just going to jump into the day, then jump into the day, happy superman day. And the reason why I bring up superman out of all these other days that are up there this days. If you watch the movie Hollywood land, there is much discussion of about whether George Reeves, the original superman from the TV show actually aside now his name is George Reeves. He was the original superman. Critique shells as was as there is there is. Now, what a coincidence, is that, yes, it is? It's come welling. What about who was the hot one with the glasses Clark Kent? No. No, the hot guy. He was before him. Do you know what I'm talking about? But the black hair hit kind of like a roomful face. He was so hot Tom welling. No dean Cain. Dean cain. Do you remember dean Cain who wound up on like laundry, water, SVU episode? I really liked his face. He was a hot superman. Yes. But Henry Cavill is hot too. But George Reeves actually committed suicide. They there was some speculation that he was actually murdered. And if you watch the movie Hollywood land, it's a very good movie, and see they confidential. Yes. Okay. They, they talk about whether it was a murderer suicide or not the funniest thing about you. Billy as you have such a soft voice and Jerry, our producer has to, has to knock you up a bunch of a bunch of notches, and yet you still have your microphone far away from your face every time. Right. And we have to tell you to move closer like it's your first time. Podcast every week every every single week. Right. But it's because I'm in a living room now and not in front of a short. You gotta it's a hard world, you're gonna have a soft voice and a soft side, which you can see of Billy Jen, I agree. And honestly, I sent this to our group chat this morning. There's a Rolling Stone article or Rolling Stone, cover about Howard Stern, and it's the softer side of Howard Stern. And next up is going to be the software's ability Jensen's. Right. I'm going to be holding rescue kittens. Are you ready for your cover? I'm ready for my cover actually, the I got interviewed by Rolling Stone when the story is coming up. Casual mention jump just drop that in there. But yes, I got interviewed by a local college so. Did you know? Nobody's interviewed me recently. I do lots of other things, by the way, we all have fulltime dogs and this, this podcast is a passion project for all of us. We enjoy it so much. Billy not. So sure we loved it. He loves us female energy does he's loss of it, and he's lower. You do. This is your business by girl scrape. But anyway, we talked. I guess we're gonna have her bachelorette does. I'm not caught up on. Yeah. Anyways, but we're all stressed out. But I had a pin like a panic attack. I had a deep deep anxiety spiral yesterday. I cried for ten hours. It's thing, okay? It's the thing and you know, we're, we're going to have some therapy right now because we're gonna talk because we're doing something true crime. You know, passion projects help us. Yes. And also because no matter how bad everything has gotten for us. We are telling stories that things are always liberal happen to us. Right. All right. So let's get into today's story. Okay. So. Up until June eighteenth two thousand two alley Kemp was living the American dream, but one day alley went to work, and she never came home Elliot's working summer job at the Foxboro neighborhood, swimming pool in the suburbs of Kansas City, Missouri. And essentially, this is the safest place in the world. But not Frawley Kemp ally camp was a nineteen year old student Kansas state university where she was a member of pie. Beta PHI sorority. She was home from college on summer break and took a summer job at a community pool as a pool. Attendant. So in the early evening of June eighteenth, two thousand two allies. Parents waited for their daughter to get home from her supper job as a pool attendant at a nearby neighborhood apartment complex pool. As it got later. Elliot's parents started to become concerned because it was raining outside, and few people would likely be swimming. So they're really wondering what could be holding her up. So at five PM alleys brother Tyler who also worked at the pull. He goes down to the neighborhood to relieve alley and take over the shift, but when he gets there, there's no sign of her at all. But all of our stuff is still there and her brother knew that she was hoping to get out of work early that day to get ready ready for a date with her boyfriend. And that was the reason why her brother was there and was actually early. So he could really hurt to get there on time. So there was really no reason for her to have been there. And obviously when her stuff is still there. That's just really strange. So he looks everywhere around the pool and within the proximity of the area and even checks out this maintenance room, this kind of pull. Room area where they kept the polls pump system and some equipment and things. There's no sign of her. Her brother then alerts their father, Roger and says, I can't find alley and Roger comes down to the pool and looks for her daughter. And when Roger got there he starts looking for Allie. He goes into that maintenance, Mcgann with a pump room is. And at five thirty pm he makes a discovery that nightmares are made of. So what Roger saw was what appeared to be a leg protruding from under a tarp inside of this pump maintenance room? And to his horror, it was the leg of his daughter, Allie, and Allie was based down under the tarp bull cover, and she had been severely beaten, her face was battered, and bloodied or hair was matted with blood, and she was partially unclothed. She was wearing a sports brought it had been pushed up, and there was a t shirt, wrapped really tightly around her neck and Roger her father, touched his daughters back, and she was still warm. So he screamed for a son to comment on one in the paramedics were called immediately and arrived shortly after so at the signs of a struggle where she was found, and she was pronounced dead after being rushed to the Saint Joseph health center so news of what happened to Alli traveled fast. She had a large network of friends. She was in a sorority and here is one of allies already sisters to share her. I restoring. Hi, I am Karen triple I was thirty sisters with Alli. We were in the same pledge class at Kansas state university for pi beta PHI when we when you rush rush is very exhausting in tiring. And you, you have a week of just trying to figure out where you want to go for the next, you know, three or four years, and your college experience than you get thrown into this group of women that most likely have no idea who they are. And so it's a little scary. I don't know for me. It was frightening. I wasn't really thrilled about it, but I do remember interacting with Alli that first night that we were all kind of together. It was bid night, all hanging out at the house. And I remember just. Being comforted by her. I was really upset. And I helped me who knows why. It's not like it was a big deal but changes scary, and she was very comforting. And that's just suites. Just a sweet cumin be with nothing but love and warmth, and it exuded her and you just wanted to be in the same room with Alli. You wanted to be around there. You wanted to get to know her more, and it really was comforting for person who is a little bit scared to be around all these brand new people that you didn't know and you were all of a sudden supposed to be best friends with. So it was great to have connected with her definitely that first night. And then, you know the rest of the year is just getting snow each other going to chapter meetings, and we have these pledge classes are all learning about hi fi, and how it started in, we're not. And it's a Superfund exciting time, but also Allie, and I were in the same dorm. She was believe a floor above me. And we also had a class together as well. And so we would share notes and study, she would always I remember leave me sweet notes on my whiteboard outside of the dorm room and. Just say, hey propety, great day. We'll see a chapter tonight. You know something like that. It was just overall a great person to know. It wasn't very long after it was like a month or something after we had left college and had come home to my parents house that I walked in the door, and I remember them watching the news, and they just turned and looked at me, and my mom that I don't know, something to the fact of something happened to one of your sorority sisters and I was like what he's talking about. And then they just turned up the news. And I mean it was all over the place. It was they just describing what had happened will what they knew at that point. And that they didn't know what happened or who did it or that, it, it was kind of this. We just didn't know what was going on other than the fact that she was murdered. Wasn't a lot of information because I don't know that they really had any, so it was definitely frightening because you're in this area down the street basically and you have no clue if this is something that's going to happen again. You're terrified for your friends at that just happened. You're terrified for your other friends that live really close to hurry. Terrified for yourself in general, quite shocking and scary. I don't remember being in shock and. You know, I think that then, you know, you, you hear about a father of finding their daughter in that way. And you know that it's horrific and you know that, that's a horrible. Horrible thing, and you feel just saddened by but now thinking about it ever mom of two young kids and thinking about them being a little bit older and need finding them in that way. I honestly I couldn't imagine it, I would have just crumble per the floor. I, I cannot believe that he was even able to wake up the next day. He is. Unbelievable and the how he has handled himself, but it was terrifying to think about in that sense, especially now as a mom. So in conjunction with the paramedics arriving, of course, the police arrive also because everything is pointing homicide at this point. So as soon as they get there, they learn that at some point during the day, at least from laurel had come to visit her at the pool. And now you've asked her friend laurel to saying, you know, it's not gonna be that busy today, the weather's not supposed to be nice. Why don't you come visit? But when she arrived, there was no sign of alley. And she also noticed that there were very few people there because of the weather, but she did notice a maintenance worker there. But she left she didn't think anything in that weird of it, she thought maybe the pool was just closed. Maybe she could leave whatever. But she did tell the police about this, man, that she saw loitering around, and she described him as being in his thirties about five ten having short Brown. Hair? They're kind of balding a heavyset and was driving in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine hundred eighty two four truck that was either light blue or beige. She couldn't really remember. So, please take note of this. I mean is this someone could be someone involved? But at this point to it's like they hadn't ruled out family. She has a boyfriend hadn't done any of that. So the very preliminary and her friend Laura was probably the last person that she ever talked to. Presumably, I don't know when she told laurel the come by to visit, I mean, it could have been the day before or whatever your family was the last people. But I'm not I'm not sure I believe she made a call to her boyfriend, Phil. Yes, she did. But I don't know that he answered he didn't. So I think I'm not sure who the last person she talked to was so she did. She made a call to fill. Right. And he didn't answer he and answer and that it still haunts him. Oh my God, that is so horrible. I can't imagine. I mean everybody in Alley's life, you know, it's a small community and people are finding out and going to the scene. And attention is being drawn to the scene in his tiny neighborhood, and there's kind of chaos and the police are trying to take sort of inventory of who's at the scene in who needs to be questioned. So then there is this guy named Ted who've MRs as the police are there. And the scene is the a commotion, there's much Peter running everywhere. It's it's a. A big thing. Right. There's this guy named Ted Hoover, who arrived at the scene saying that he's all the police commotion, and he wanted to check out. What was going on as people on Bez and Ted ended up matching the description of the maintenance man, that laurel had described just very recently Ted Hoover. Explain the Hughes in the area because he owned a pool cleaning business, and he was hoping to take this new pool is one of his new clients. So, please wondered if Ted could be involved, and they asked him, if he'd be willing to give a DNA sample in order to clear him. He considered it, but then declined. And so they had to speak with his lawyer, and he'd be in touch with them soon which does happen. Like that's not that sketching. Yeah. No. Because people, especially I mean, if you're, like, random point, it was kind of like this guy came later were probably asking everybody here. Right. This is probably something that happened close to home. I mean they hadn't ruled out the family. It's probably like they're just asking everyone. Right. Want to wanna rule yourself out like we're going to ask you eventually, right? So then. Then he ends a vanishing and the police never hear from him. And they can find no record of a man with his name at all. So they end up obviously determining that Ted. Hoover must be an alias. But luckily, they did know this guy's lawyers name. So they asked him to disclose the location or true identity of Ted Hoover. But the lawyer refused to disclose any information about his client. And is that that's legal to do? I mean they blind. It wasn't like he was there was a there's not. Yeah. It's like they were just like he's a person of interest. Yeah. And it's like, oh well, if you didn't take his ID or, or do the deligence like is he not arrest? I'm not beholden to do that. And it's really strange to, as you will discover the fact, the whole lawyers name thing, which, which will get into in a second. So in the true crime world, we keep hearing about learning about all of these cases, that were kind of mishandled, during the investigation it comes up over and over and over again, this is why were so stoked for this new show, that's coming out featuring the one only our very own Billy Johnson. There are a lot of unanswered questions in this particular case. And that's the case of Rebecca. How right I'm sure if you are in the true crime world you've heard of this case before. But if you haven't, I'm gonna give you a little sparks notes version about what the cases about sir Rebecca's, a how was found dead hanging naked bound and gagged in the courtyard of her billionaire boyfriends Coronado mansion, in two thousand eleven just two days after his six year old son max suffered a fatal accident wall, under Rebecca's care and her cause of death was ruled as a suicide. She was tied up hanging, but there is a lot of really weird things in this case that doesn't really doesn't seem like suicide to me, like we're saying there are a lot of unanswered. Questions and we've got Paul Paul's. We've got Billie Johnson. And we've got wanting combs, these three true crime experts reexamining the evidence in Rebecca's a how case so tune in Saturdays at six pm eastern Pacific time on oxygen. The new network four true crime to watch death at the mansion Rebecca's how, and if you're just finding out about the series now and have missed the first couple of episodes, not to fear. You can watch it on demand and binge-watch anytime like we do. So make sure to tune in this Saturday at six five on oxygen and see the softer side of Billy Johnson. So out he had a boyfriend named Phil when this happened. So they wanted to question, Phil house who is a Kansas university senior who had dated alley four or five years before her attack at that pool he was completely distraught. Again, you know, he knew about the, the phone call. He wondered maybe there was, you know, she was calling him for help, and he, he wasn't there. There's nothing he could have done. He was immediately cleared of any involvement and almost immediately the family and anybody in the family was cleared, but they did have that DNA in the case. So it was going to be easy to clear individuals who are involved. So the autopsy on Allie reveal the extent of her injuries. She had signs at defensive wounds. Her left index finger was broken. She had black eyes cut lips her fingers were cut as well. She had bruises on our knees thighs and hips as well as a head injury and signs of manual. Strangulation and ligature. Ligature strangulation to and the autopsy indicated that Allie likely fought hard for her life for upwards of fifteen minutes. And when this happens. Somebody was strangling. Her probably started with manual strangulation got up on the Dottie done, the job thought that looked back and saw her moving probably try it again. Maybe hitter over the head again, and then got a ligature because it's a pool room. They've got a bunch of different ropes and things like that. So, you know, obviously, this is devastating for the family. Allie's dad Rogers said in a media interview for weeks ahead to fight just to get out of bed, but I had to keep going not just for alley. But for our family. In, in the sorority, we have usually mom, we can ask you get. And this particular for it was our first dad's weekend park, dad's, we've come up, and we had a golfing tournament that particular weekend. And he was just kind of a fun way to have the dads gets no, the throaty and gets know everybody else. And so we my father and I were actually paired up with Allie, and Roger, and it was just the most fun. I mean I am not a golfer. Allie was, I don't think alley with the Gulf. I don't remember but it was just fun. And we were goofing off. And when we laughed, I remember my dad saying what a loving fantastic family. They are because they were it was just it could have been an awkward situation. You're paired up with a father and a daughter. You don't know very well and, and they need it so comfortable, and we had equal last, and it was just definitely very memorable. Just a neat experience for sure. So. Allie, of course, after the autopsy and after they collect all the evidence that they need to collect a funeral was planned, and she was remembered by everyone who loved her, and it was many, many people. Just examined her funeral for one thing there, I've never to date into a bigger funeral in my life, there was I think something like fourteen hundred people there. So she clearly impacted a lot of people in her short life, right there and just the community. So clearly I wasn't the only one that thought how mazing she was she was a phenomenal human being, and you could see it, and how many people came to pay her Tribu. So at the service, people remembered alley for the wonderful person that she was she graduated from blue valley north in may of two thousand one she loved high school. She was chosen as a student ambassador, was on the student council played varsity. Soccer was a member of the national Honor Society where she was elected sergeant of arms, and was a co president of future business leaders of America, her senior year. She did ten times more than me, and I could even dream of she was elected to the sweetheart court her junior year and as much as she loved high school. She also loved college she'd completed her freshman year, and she did well, her first year and was enjoyed envited to join the honors program at K state, as well as the national society of collegiate scholars. She was not academic scholar in the school of human ecology and a leadership scholar. She finished her first year on the top ten percent of her class. And while it case state, she played intramural soccer and basketball, she loves soccer and poetry. She was voted the nicest girl in the eighth grade, and high school. She was so involved. They made an exception to the number of times. Your picture could show up in the yearbook, Mike God. Oh my God. Fucking sad. I think looking back, I definitely after this happened. We all around us, we're very aware of our environment. Now, we're like, is it going to happen to us what's going to happen now is he around still is he a neighbor does? He live next to me is he down the street? You just don't know if you kind of tense up and you just kind of are aware of everything. And, and. Skeptical skeptical of everybody that even act with for sure. And then now you know, I I try to think back it do I continue to do that. I don't wanna look at people, I don't know. I keep my head down. I don't wanna smile at them. I don't want them to see anything that I make I, I don't know. I just a little bit more wary of my environment and probably has a lot to do with, you know, alley, and what happened to her for sure. Just as a woman in general. And then now on top of it, one of your sisters murdered so definitely more aware. So what's alleys family and friends are mourning. The cops are investigating and putting theory together and the theory was around the assumption that her murder had been a crime of opportunity. It was raining that day. No one was using the pool. And that's when she was likely approached by an unknown man, the man, somehow, got her into this pool pump room. This maintenance room then beat her, and strangled her, and covered her with these tarps. So. The police alleys family use the media to appeal to the public for help and a sketch of this Ted. Hoover person was made in released and was displayed across news stations everywhere. And they also stated that the killer may have had wounds from Allie defending yourself based on just a lot of the autopsy findings. And on August twelve two thousand two there was a candlelight vigil held for Allie in hundreds of her. Loved ones came out to mourn, the loss of her and it's not surprising given how many people went to her funeral allie's dad Roger, however, vowed to bring his daughters Clarita Justice. They weren't just going, he wasn't going to accept oh, the attorney won't give you his real name. Right. You know, I can't imagine the fury. Oh my God of that from his perspective. So he was, heartbroken and e in, in his sorrow came up with this novel idea, and he was armed with this police composite sketch of this white male suspect, and he went to Lamar advertising, which is a local firm who kind of control the billboards in the area, and he wanted to put up wanted billboards in town. And when the owner of the advertising company heard Roger story, he was moved, and he decided to just donate the use of these billboards towards Rogers caused in trying to bring his daughters. Murderer to Justice and wants the will up. It was estimated that fifty thousand individuals a day would would see these billboards and good on Libor advertising for. No, that's so great that the guy is, as somebody that spends a lot of money on advertising to try and find criminals using using social media, probably given Mark Zuckerberg. It's probably up to thirty thousand dollars. Now, I would love Mark Zuckerberg to say, hey, we want to. Here's a million dollars. That'd be really good. I could solve a lot of murders that way. But, you know, this is this is crazy. They should just give that resource. It would be wonderful. And I, I have asked really. Yeah. Too. Big fat now to well, you know. Exactly. I'm sure there's no real customer service at Facebook, actually, you know, it's very hard to get anybody on the phone to face. But I'm sure Uber. If you're like me, having to deal with anything involving healthcare, and especially trying to get my hands on some birth control is really, really difficult. So you're going to want to hear a sponsor, that's gonna save you a lot of time and money in that realm. They're called simple health, and as the name suggests to here to make your healthcare, simple. And that's starting with birth control, birth controls getting a much-needed twenty-first-century upgrade. And with simple health, you can get your birth control, prescribed online and delivered to your door for free. How easy is that whether you're already on birth control looking to get back on or want to try it. For the first time, simple, health will take care of you. And the best thing is they offer Affordable Care, regardless of insurance. They do accept insurance. But luckily, birth control is free with mos- insurance plans to pay absolutely nothing to use the service every single month. The prescriptions usually twenty dollars for our listeners can try simple health for free. Just go to simple dot com slash degree or enter code degree at checkout, and I want to mention this isn't a replacement for routine evaluations by your primary health physician or gynecologist. You should still get checkup says. Needed, but it is the most convenient, and comfortable way to get your birth control. Again, try a better way to get birth control with simple health by going to simple, help dot com slash degree, or enter code degree at checkout. Give it a try and thank me later. Alexei isn't the only one with breaking news, make sure to hang around at the end of this podcast for the latest breaking headlines on the AP news minute. Attention true. Crime fans checkout, twenty two hours in American nightmare on podcast. One is a case that nightmares are made of a family has held hostage for nearly twenty four hours and murdered inside their own home. WTO p examines the complicated trail of evidence that police say lead defining their killer, and why they say he committed such a brutal crime. Download new episodes of twenty two hours in American nightmare on apple podcasts and podcast. One. So America's most wanted also cover the case, and Roger arranged for advertisements and USA today. So the case was everywhere, and was this being displayed very prominently in the public eye. And I'm February eleventh, two thousand and three the police get there break that they have been waiting for someone called in a tip, and gave the police the name of a twenty seven year old named James straighter from Utah. He was picked up by police after getting gas and driving off without paying for it, which I didn't even realize that you could do, I think back in the day, use hood that far back in the two you can just. Yeah. I think you'd be like fill it up, especially a full-service maybe at a full. You know, it's like put twenty in there and just drive away. Right. Dodd moved here. This is two thousand three but yet still. So when the police in Utah pulled him over they learned that this guy had an outstanding warrant in Missouri and Kansas, and they weren't just for petty crimes. He was facing allegations of rape and aggravated kidnapping the attack involved, a woman who said that she was his former girlfriend, and she said that he came to her home, raped, her at knifepoint and then forced her to ride with him to an area like near those artists that are so terrifying. The it's like the wilderness like, oh, you're for sure. Gonna kill me. Oh, you better. Thought that he was going to become. Yeah. But it doesn't stop there. So he was also charged with raping a fourteen year old girl on that very same day, God and he was looked at as a suspect for another kidnapping that happened a week earlier now the le- would police department, and they were the, the department that we're handling Elliot's case they took an interest in straighter after getting that tip about him on their hotline, and he did look like the composite of the man seen laudering around the pool pump room on the day that she was killed. They were able to pinpoint that straighter was actually in the Casey area during the middle part of June of two thousand and two, which coincided with allie's murder. Kansas City and the Kansas bureau investigations. So scheduled strata for an extradition hearing. The police brought him in for questioning alleys family members were on the edge of their seats. This could be their guy. Right. So you can imagine. Everybody's super excited, we could be like, you know, their daughter's killer of this, this perpetrator of this heinous crime is walking free. So imagine the crushing disappointment. They must have felt when they learned that, despite all of these potential connections. The DNA was not a match the D N A found at the crime scene. So this was not their guy. I think through the summer keep hearing about it. You wanna make sure that this guy is caught. They're not catching you feel a little upset you feel angry. You're like what's happening, you get to school. And then we have to go through rush on the other side of rush, this time, we're part of thirty but we don't have one of our girls with us. And that's upsetting. That's depressing. You know, we tried to make sure she was a part of rush. And we did a lot of just little things for her to be there with us because we knew how excited to us to see that fight of rush, I is so long ago that it's hard to think about what I did to help with that process. But I'm not so sure that I did a whole lot. You know, didn't really have a lot of the resources when you're twenty to figure it out. Her dad like I said, he, he got up and champion for her daughter and made sure that nobody stopped looking for her killer, made sure that everybody knew how amazing she was and how we need to find a human that took two. Daughter promise, and it was just incredible to see someone be so strong and such a horrible situation, and it was definitely Roger that kept that going and kept her memory alive for sure. So soon after this, the police received two different tips, one of them was able to reveal the real name of teddy Hoover, which was Benjamin Appleby and the other tipster was able to reveal where he lived, which we're which was in Connecticut. So they pull over Benjamin Applebee's record and learned that there are a slew of charges against him. And he has a checkered past. It's pretty pretty bad. He's been charged with risk of injury. Public indecency masturbation in public assault, armed robbery burglary sexual misconduct. The list goes on and on and on. He looked like he could be involved. But everyone was cautious about the disappointment of their previous person of, of interest, because it's kind of seem they're having a high optimistic and you talk about a lot the lease on, on Golden State killer on unmasking, killer, Paul holes. Like I wasn't looking at it like I've been excited a million they just got a. That is probably wrong. Yes. Because he's like this is my guy visits my guy, and then even with the DNA too, and that was different because he had he had gone on a wild goose chase with the DNA stuff as many wild goose chases that he went on with the homework and all that other stuff. He had just gone on one and, and hit this. Yeah. The one in Oregon. Yeah. And then when he was got this when it was like, okay, fine. And then in you're like disheartened you're like I can't get my hopes up. Yeah. And so once police received this tip about Appleby. They learned that there was an outstanding warrant out for his arrest from nineteen Ninety-seven. And this is always a good thing because, like, okay, you do a search for this guy, and they're able to be like, oh, wow. There's a warrant for him. So now they can go and pick him up just great state police. Pick him up. And they learned that he was living with a girlfriend under the name of you guessed it teddy Hoover. The second and teddy who were the second actually was a friend of his who had died way. Oh, yes. So it's kind of some second to that's weird. He likes adopted his dead, friends native so spiritual creepy. So he was arrested by the Connecticut. Authorities on November eighth two thousand four and when he was initially taken into custody in Connecticut. He said he wanted a lawyer, he was then extradited to Kansas City and once he arrived in Kansas, and he spoke to his mother and his mother is like, you know what they're just going to give you a crappy lawyer, just they said that they didn't have enough money for this go ahead and cooperate and confess. And this murderer is such this mama's boy, that he spills it, and he's held on a million dollars bail. All right. And this is something just I want to talk about. And which I was talking to Karen about alleys Rory sister is that it's incredible that a guy like this could have such anger towards women, where he sees a woman, and she's, you know, in kills her in an opportunistic. Fashion, and then it has such a good relationship with his mother and living with fiancee's, who doesn't have any idea at it just scares double life. It's stairs. It's even more terrifying than somebody. That is so but it's also the fact that maybe, you know, the mother was constantly telling him what to do, and he's always gonna follow that. Maybe it's just grim. Scares me that like you're, you can be nice to some women, but kill other ones habit. That makes sense from Billy though, healers turn into these, they have domineering mothers anything's possible. My mom called me and told me they got him in. Was it November of four? And like I said, I was down here in Florida. Giving an internship. It was a relief is anything, you know, this kind of, like, okay, you know, and I was out of Kansas. So clearly I wasn't as well. I mean I don't know. I mean serial killers go around the whole world, so you never know. But I it was just a big relief that they found this guy and that somebody was gonna, you know. Be tr- tried for this horrible, murder and Allie was going to get, you know, some kind of. I just it was is it was great news. But also brought up for memories. If you know what I mean, like it, it was exciting, but also makes your stomach turn a little bit. He starts thinking about it again. All right. So Benjamin Appleby what do we know about this IKEA path Benjamin Appleby attended tongue? Anoxia high school in Kansas during part of his sophomore year engineers in the high school into we can only find select information about him and he's not that important. So we didn't spend a ton of time on this because Kim. Yeah. So I'm just what was easy to find what I'll include. I don't know where he was before that in his nineteen Ninety-one yearbook Albie sophomore year. He's pictured in a group in group photos of the wrestling team. And also, the industrial arts club, and I think it's interesting to mention that he was a stock. You dude, he was stocky and strong in a wrestler. Yeah. And probably very, very difficult to fight off, hypothetically. So Appleby's father lived in Texas, and t to as in Benjamin. Appleby was living there during the time of alleys murder. And I was I found this when we were doing research, and I found it on a sort of a pro boards information trading Fred and there was a girl who posted about it. And I just want to read what she said. So she said, I have a story of my own about this. He sat behind me in history class in nineteen Ninety-two. He kept teasing me touching my hair, my neck, my back making suggestive comments, etc. I finally got so fed up that I turned around and yelled, if you don't stop touching me. I'm going to haul off in clock. You. So, like this girl was so creeped out, she had just said it was his whole, and he'd just he'd been a inappropriate. We women here violating. And you know. Eric arrogant about what he's allowed to do felt entitled to women. Yes, how I interpret this. So the Kansas City star outlined, his record and included a therapist description of Appleby in a nineteen Ninety-six report. And is she probably was very friendly with him. She probably smiled at him and said Hello and trying to be helpful, and then he just decides to take advantage of the size is just awful. It's on my have, I honestly have no clue who would be able to not. I mean, sure you hear about people. Getting rapes or head or whatever it is. But the severity of the way that he beat her. Is unbelievable. I don't I can't even fathom that kind of anger coming out of somebody and it just the disgusting human being to want to, to beat. Somebody unrecognizable strangle them leave them for dead under a tarp that. I that it doesn't even make sense in my brain is it's, it's horrific. And it doesn't make sense as the women that are with them. Don't see anything like do you not see any behaviors or you're not paying attention to these behaviors. I mean I don't know if they're just going love that they don't be the, the harshness behind there is. I don't know. I don't understand it there. I mean he's clearly psychotic and he's clearly got something wrong with it. So you would think that his, they would know that as a parent, you can only do so much. You can only create an environment and raise them up and teach him as much as you can something was wrong at him. And there's nothing that she could have done to change him. He's just a psychopath and it wasn't her fault at all. And God bless her for telling telling him to confess and turn himself in. He's. I. Yeah. I mean, I never even thought of it from the now because I'm involved with two boys and never even thought about it from that, and respective of his mommy. I honestly couldn't imagine being the mother of that. I don't even want to call me him human being on us. Have you ever thought about the fact that we're you choose to live directly impacts the you that you become? I know when I was living in an apartment or house that I didn't truly love or I didn't feel comfortable in it affected my wellbeing. So that's why I love our sponsor apartments dot com. They have the most listings, which means that they have the most apartments townhomes condos and houses to choose from. So you can unlock your full potential and become the best version of your self your in control of your rental future, so not to mention they have custom search tool. So if you're looking for something specific, whether that be number of bathrooms or number of bedrooms, or somewhere pet friendly, or commute friendly. They have it all in one spot, and there's more with apartments dot com. What you see is what you rent, they come through all their listings, make sure all the information is verified and up to date. So you're not wasting your sweet, sweet time and you can focus on listening to more true crime podcast. They're making hunting for a new apartment a breeze. So with apartments dot com. Go find your perfect place apartments dot com. Change your apartment. Change the world. So the report obtained by the Kansas City star warned that Benjamin Appleby than twenty one years old was in a quote, high risk position to re-offend and could pose sexual threats, although most of his criminal history consisted of sexual misconduct involving public masturbation, which is disturbing and terrifying JD. This guy is going to it's going to going gonna actually I sure there's no, ooh, public masturbation, go home, like sue. Oh, no one wants to see that disgusting shut nobody wants to see it. He ended up pleading guilty to two nineteen Ninety-two raw nineteen Ninety-two robberies as well. The cases involve the hold ups of a Donut shop, and a convenience store in independence when he was seventeen years old. And one of the robberies a gunman who is apparently, but it'd been Appleby pointed, a shotgun at the head of a clerk and pulled the trigger. Thankfully, the gun didn't fire and years later, he told his therapist that the gun had never been loaded. I'm going, but he's like, we wasn't loaded but imagine the life ruining moment of PTSD back and better. Do. I fucking hit, or so the therapists, nineteen Ninety-six report depicted Benjamin Appleby as a young man who quote has a history of inappropriate alcohol. Use anger problems frequently goal in entanglements and appears to be emotionally immature. But it also that he was intelligent and appeared fairly motivated for treatment to make positive appropriate changes in his life and his behavior, this all seems kind of very current Christie. They're, they're like, oh, I don't want to is going to be serial killer. But I have hope I guess, so the therapist, also depicted him as quote pleasant communique communicative and cooperative during their seventy five minute session. He also held up a convenience store, right across the street from a police department. So while in custody. After he's extra extradited back to Kansas. He like we all mentioned confessed, an applebees Holywood detectives that he had gone to the pool that day to check it out as a potential client who knows if that's true. But that's what he was going with even back in the beginning when he was teddy Hoover, when he showed up at the scene. He said he found alley Kemp attractive and tried to hit on her, and then lost it when she rebuffed his advance and swung at him. So. You guys have been hit on before. Yeah. Never has anybody happens at bars happens on the street. Yeah. Has anybody ever hit on you in a room where there was nobody else, not that I cannot mistreat? No, but he's me humans in a situation like this, where you're like there's a door like you're stuck in a an enclosed place with somebody. That is inappropriately heading on you where you would be fearful if you said, no hasn't happened to me that I can think of not, not like. A an elevator. In the laundry, room and a party or something. Around. By herself. I mean can you just think there was member? There was it was raining. There was nobody else at the pool. Yeah. This guy follows her into this room. He's, he's waiting for her to do that. He says that he hits on our. And then she. You know she says now. Go now she probably started like being nice. Yeah. Definitely. And like Narain said Karen said, she would have probably smiled and mid nice and tried to. That it's that's just so annoying that you have to that women feel like they have to act, we do they'll hurt us. I know but that's like this is this is a prime insane. But like it's I do that, too. Like people do something awkward on the street. I'm like, no. Thank you, in the when they persist sound like you're making me uncomfortable. And like you start nice because you don't want somebody to react to don't you Hugh stories like this. Right. But you know, he she rebuffs him. He blocks the door and then. And then what does she do? Does he hit her first? Yeah. And just now he just lost it. And, and, and then to start swinging enter. Yeah. Handle rejection. This is this all just because some piece of shit can't handle was hurt their rejection. Like, yeah. So he says, I killed her. I strangled her. I guess I don't know what I used there was something laying there. And again, what we learned from the autopsy report is that he originally tried to strangle, her manually. He you know you don't realize how long it takes to actually strangle somebody she was still alive, and then he kept doing it again. And again, so you can just think about that. And, and how brutal that is any also said that he had gone into a first aid kit to get some sort of Oatman out to us as a lubricant, too late to rape her. But then he couldn't perform, so he just covers her body up with this tarp, and then he leaves. Disgusting garbage human piece of shit, so the police have Fetig yeah, the police have the confession. They have the people saying, you know, the idea of him from from the billboard which led him to that person. But DNA they did have DNA there and be the family determined. And yes, the DNA was a match. I'll be honest. I don't know if I ever really processed it if I you know, I'm thinking about it now as a twenty year old this happening to somebody that, you know, and, you know, it was I not even I wasn't even the closest to Allie by anything. So think about for women and men that went to high school with her. I went to college, and the girls over my sorority. A lot of them went through all of elementary middle school junior, high with Alli they've known her their whole life and just to try to move on from that. I can't even imagine. And for me, I, I don't know that I've processed it a lot to be honest when allie's boyfriend Phil learned of the arrest of getting a call from his mom. He later said, in an interview, quote, it's a bittersweet day. It's a great day because this guy is behind bars now. But that doesn't bring Allie back and we still have to deal with that we've been waiting for this day for two years. He said that there had been times where he was worried a suspect wouldn't be arrested but he commended the diligence of the lay lead. Police. Department in Roger Kemp for keeping his and everyone else's spirits up. So on November ninth two thousand four Appleby was indicted on first-degree murder charges in Johnson county. If convicted he could face the death penalty now as the trial approached even though he would they had the confession even though they had the DNA Applebee's attorneys, just start throwing a bunch of stuff up against the wall, and they mounted defense about how he had a bunch of issues, he came from a household where was abandoned and abused and things from his childhood were coming up in awful ways. And his lawyer claimed that he had, what is called, I e d or intermittent explosive disorder which would cause them to go into these crazy fits of rage, and he would actually disassociate himself from that behavior. So he's saying that this is what happened the prosecutors would fight against that and say, you know what he clearly tried that sort of it was. A half ass attempt that he tried to hide the body. But the tarp over it way. There is a lot of deliberate actions that now deliberate, malice actions, that proved he planned. It's not like he did this and it's like, oh my God. Call the cops I overreacted. Yes. So at Applebee's lawyers, actually didn't even call any witnesses. The jury watched a video tape of Applebee's chilling confession, and they deliberated in less than three hours before finding thirty one year old Benjamin Appleby guilty of capital murder, and attempted rape. Every car comes with its share of stories that ding in your bumper. When you nervously picked up the first day, the luxury package, you got after your big promotion or the mileage that you save by riding your bike all summer. Good job, by the way. Well, you can't put a price tag on your stories now with truecar you can at least find out what your car is worth when it's time to sell or trade it in just go to truecar simply enter your license plate number, and watch how your car's details pop-up then answer a few questions. If you have navigation and moon roof watch as they bump up, your value, if you have high mileage, you already knew that was going to cost you. But now you know how much danger wallet so that you can plan ahead? Once you're finished. You'll get a true cash offer sent in minutes, which you can take your local certified dealer to cash out or trade in. So when you're ready to experience a better way to sell or trade in your car, check out truecar today and chew cash offer is not available in all areas. So as for his sentence during the sentencing hearing, Cathy, Kemp, who is always mother made an impact statement that concluded with this Christmas Eve as every Christmas Eve since she died when other people were in church. I was putting candles on her grave, and I don't go to church anymore. It's terrible. She said, nothing can be done to make this, right. I'm serving a life sentence in. I'm never going to be paroled. Appleby then requested to be excused from the hearing his request was granted by the judge as Kansas law. Requires a judge's approval for a criminal defendant to be absent at such hearings the absence of Appleby angered Roger cap Alley's father. He said he didn't just murder her. He didn't kill her. He drug, the life out of her body because she didn't want to die. And he did it. And he doesn't have the courage to sit here today in here me tell it God, who that is me hoeing. Oh my God. I can't the pain this family went through. So Appleby received a hard fifty your sentence, which is five decades without the possibility of parole for the murder conviction and initially received two hundred twenty eight months for the attempted rape to be served consecutively. However, I mean, I think this is a little boring, but I'll just the nuts and bolts of it is that ended up being overturned, the, the actual extra two hundred twenty eight months because this legal technicality, because they said it was double jeopardy to add two hundred twenty eight months when they use the rape to convict him on first degree murder. So that's very boring legal technicalities. Should he get life without parole? Sure fifty years. He'll be eighty one when he gets out, but getting into the legal back and forth. I'm not gonna waste your time with that ripe but Roger Kemp can finally stand down. I mean, her his daughter's murderer has been brought to Justice if there is such a thing when a life is stolen. I'm not sure but in the days and your since alleys murder, he started teaching basic self-defense classes, two girls from all walks of life through foundation. He established in his daughter's name. Take defense dot org, and he never stops thinking about Louis, and he says. As we thought she was just going to make a difference in this world Ali Kemp did make a difference. Just not in the way, I'd imagine. Well, when it first started, like, when we first the first year that Roger can't started that the education foundation, we did a defence class, so we got to basically arm ourselves, which, I think what a great legacy can leave for Allie to be able to every year educate women on how to defend themselves, if something like this happens. And so definitely a great memory in her memory to keep for for for a long time. And now I believe pi pi, PHI, does a they used to call the alley cat bandstand, and they would have a big like concert and party. And now I believe they still do that. And I and I wanna say they continue to do the defense class every single year but also with all the sororities on campus to make sure that everybody's getting the same education when it comes to defending themselves. So for sure. I think if I just really wants to keep her memory alive, especially at can stay honestly, if you knew where it's the worst there, it couldn't have happened to that, like she was the best human. They're very few people. I come across even now know thirty seven I haven't come across a lot of people with that good of a heart. My husband, I would say one of them, but she was definitely and other that you're just like that's a good human being. She definitely left a Mark. So she's her Sarah, just it was a joy to know her for the short period of time that I got you. And since his daughter's death Roger campus contributed, and helping solve crimes all across the country, inspired by his idea soon other police departments around the country adopted similar billboards, and to Dayton, Kansas alone. They've already helped with authorities capture more than thirty fugitives, which is crazy. Thing is those billboards. Everybody should be using them and you see somebody billboards, you should use billboards. You see, so many billboards up for movies that are clearly way past out of. They're out of the theaters. There's no reason for those billboards to be up and it's. I just didn't well yeah we don't need that billboard for the Pokemon movie, but somebody listen, people make money. I understand that. But what they should do is, you know what if there's a they obviously didn't sell the bell billboard leaving up this other stuff what they should do is just donate it. I know it's I mean, obviously works, it's such like a and, and the, the, the people that did see the billboards the they split it up in a forty ten split because the person who actually knew the name and knew where they were that was more important of the information, but they didn't take the forty thousand dollars. They actually donated it to alleys family and allies. Family created a scholarship fund in her name, which is such a wonderful thing to do, which is great. But I never want, you know what you'd never want to sort of shame people. It's great that he did that. But, but I never want to sort of put an emphasis on that. That's what people should do because I want people to call in tips and get the reward on it. If you want it. But Roger Kemp did say to the media when he heard this he, he was quote unquote, floored. Instead, you know, it just proves how amazing people in Kansas City are. And, you know there were a couple examples of this in his story in, in the advertisers, having this altruistic compassion to donate billboards, which are thousands of dollars this person. I mean, how kind that they experienced to experiences like that guy because he really wants to be people so greedy. So it's really beautiful. Yeah, that's really wonderful. And despite all the pain that he'll always carry for Roger who, who received a presidential citizens medal for his work from President Obama, there soulless, and knowing that he's helping police Taylor's off the streets like the so it's great. The he turns such a horror flick. Saurian is something I told you to read the Victor, Frankl book, a longtime man's man's search for meaning in it's all about finding meaning in your suffering, and healing. It can be an it's an amazing example of that. So how do you think Karen remembers alley? And you know, I asked her kind of what kind of Mark she left on her. And if this experience, kind of change turn how. She's definitely connected with all the other my sorority sisters and my pledge class. So whenever I see them on Facebook, Instagram. I definitely her her face Thompson, my head, and, you know, I just I try to remember her in a positive way and just try to. It's, it's sad to me, because I know that she would have been just a just the best team that she would have had the most incredible life. She would have been the best mom if she wanted to do that, she would have been just a gem in any society that she chose to put herself in it. I'm sad about it, but thankful for the time that short time that I got to know her. And it's, it's usually those moments when I'm you know, scrolling through interim and seeing everybody's life that we're all in our thirty and we've all moved on. And that's usually when she kinda pumped in, in occasionally, if I listened to a podcast, it's about a crime or burder, she'll pop in my head, and it's, it's kind of weird to think like, oh, yeah, I, I guess I do have a connection, and in that way to some horrible crime, and it's not something you wanna have. So it I don't know. It's just it's a strange feeling it is a strange feeling. And I totally understand what Karen saying being connected to anything like this is surreal, and even more surreal for the family members of these people who are affected in killed by psychopaths. It's just you, you want the world for your children when something like this happens. I. See how allie's dad was just not going to accept anything but turning this into something sort of beautiful in the name of his daughter. And he was really, really able to do that in a beautiful way to turn a tragedy into something that and not just sort of one thing in the scholarship and doing the take defence, he design things, you know, you really got when you see it reminds me of Tim Miller who runs Texas equa surge whose daughter was killed. And he, he turned that around and now helps people who go missing and he's helped find a lot of people. But, you know, when he told me when I was out with him once on a search he was just like you know, whenever I want to give up look at her picture, and I say, all right. I'll keep going. So time. It's so touching 'em. Karen, thank you so much for reaching out with this case, we are so happy to cover it. I mean the Kemp family, clearly just like fourteen hundred people at Ollie's funeral Roger camp going above and beyond. And in doing this I mean I mean she was obviously adored and cared for so much as the peace Allie. Young Cousteau Saad. Yeah, thank you, Karen for reaching out to us. And if anybody out there listening in the abyss is connected to a murder, or other stranger than fiction story. Please reach out to us we'd love to tell your story. Nothing is too small. So even if you think your story is insignificant in nobody's ever covered it, we would like to cover it. You can Diaz on Instagram. I greet odd Alexis linkletter at Billy Johnson at Jack panic or write us. Hello at the first group, podcast dot com. And we read. Every single little thing that a center way. Yes. And until next week you superman too happy superman. It was also happy like make sure your egg basket is full day, tumbling day.