Episode 1066 - Edward Norton

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Adult Swim podcast which takes you behind the scenes with the creators cast and crew of the adult swim shows you love it's hard to believe that adult swim has been putting out offbeat hey folks do you like rick and morty how about robot chicken or Aqua Teen Hunger Force maybe too many cooks or Tim and Eric if you like any of these shows than you might like a show yes now asked welcome to it how's it going Edward Norton Edward Norton is on the show today I talked to Edward Norton it's got a new new I just drove in from San Francisco I made the drive I drove up on Friday thinking that I would have a meditative nice and a lot of his act if you've seen him or heard on NPR a lot of his act revolved around his his father's a battle with Alzheimer's his Dad Andre and it was a lot of what Christmas sort of involved with in dealing with his father and and sort of the humor that could be found in that you know without making fun of his father obviously but innately blurred starring Regina King and Jeremy Irons Watchmen Airs Sundays at nine pm only on HBO. Okay let's do whatever you get your podcasts were also sponsored today by watchmen watchmen has come to HBO inspired by the groundbreaking graphic novel of the name name Damon Lindelof watchmen is set in an alternate history of present day America where the lines between vigilantes and masked crimefighters have been per kind but did I do that I did not I did not do any of that I took the five straight up I took the five straight down the five the world's most heinous Dr Tom as we head into this week I wanNA help a not help but I wanted to bring attention to a couple of my pals all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck next what's happening I'm mark mayor and this is my podcast a couple of my pals are doing shit if I could Chris Garcia whose open for me a few times he's been on this show before very funny guy it makes five hours seem like nine the coast would have taken too long and I was just worried I didn't know if anything was on fire the road will be blocked up I just took the straight shot author and his father's passed you know coming up through the moving from Cuba you being in a Labor camp in Cuba transitioning to the states cornea coast was the answer to all the problems was poetic beauty maybe stop at Esslingen do some time travel may be an encounter group for flotation tank of and stuff that haunted his old man interspersed with this with Chris's relationship with him through his disease but you know it's it's quite a work it's passion prod title mugs key chains and Hats Start Your holiday shopping early Goto pod swag slash W. t.f or click on merch at W. F. Pod Dot com I did folks before I get into that stuff there's a couple of things the W. T. F. Merch store is fully loaded with new items including stuff people have asked us for for forever they had big plans nonetheless there's something about that city and I did have some I did say I had some ghosts too to reckon with and I think I did I think for the past two years he's just been pouring his heart and soul into recording this podcast called scattered and it's really about his dugs just friends Chris Garcia scattered podcast and Dean del Rey's five hundred with Paul Stanley pay I've been go up the coast may be stopped for lunch and big Sur maybe take it in go back in my mind to the Times where I thought that that beautiful northern Califor- actually we've got new shirts with the sweet ass drap Lynn design metallic ink. WPF hoodies a ringer t a ladies multi tumblers water bottles movie coming out it's got mother was Brooklyn comes out Friday November I it was good to talk to him intense guy how is everybody you okay L. box with stamps dot com you also get five cents off every first class stamp and up to forty percents off priority mail not to mention it's a fraction of the cost of those what if there is there something you need to mail or ship at a moment's notice there's no need to interrupt your workday or fight traffic to get to the Post Office folks anything you can do at the post posted twenty four seven for any letter package any class of male anywhere you want to send once your mail is ready you've just handed to your mail carrier drop it in only the guitarist and lead singer kissed and dean very excited so there's a couple of podcasts rex recommending nay not paid uttered and that's my buddy Chris Garcia now my other Buddy Deane del Rey who you know he's just had his five hundredth episode and Got Paul Stanley on their polston. This is the Second Masonic Auditorium that I've worked at and again I believe I- transcended usually fisk you can do it stamps dot com whether you're a small office sending invoices or even a warehouse sending thousands of Packages Day simple use your computer to print official US Jack and it's it's deep and it's funny and it's moving and it's produced by WNYC and you can get it I imagine where you can get everywhere you can get podcast it's called scab offensive postage meters stamps dot com has been part of W T F for years not just as a sponsor but as part of our business so don't spend a minute of the upcoming holiday season Com enter W T.F STAMPS DOT COM never go to the post office again but de back to the trip to San Francisco so so I get up I think there is a masonic ritual that they need to that needs to happen in the masonic space at some time during the spaces history which I fulfilled at the post office this year sign up for stamps dot com with Promo code W T F and get a special offer that includes a four week trial push free postage and last time I was there I came in second in the Boston Comedy Competition thus you know sort of inadvertently playing out the failing you ritual was done in the space was thus sort of initiated now I needed to transcend that and I had the order wrong of who won and who lost digital scale with no long term commitments or contracts just go to stamps dot COM click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in W. t.f that stamps waiting around for like a fucking our and I worked it was great meeting all the people it was a great show in San Francisco the masonic was sweet it wasn't scary to me they would bring a Jew in but they can't do that now and they just hope it happens coincidentally I actually served that purpose back in ninety three so the failing of the what if everyone talked I came how can people not see you know how annoying and embarrassing and fucking horrifically insecure this fucker is of the Jew ceremony which is a masonic secret masonic rite ritual that was in the book it used to be something they would you know kind of the with that ninety three competition Carlos House Iraqi was I I was second Stephen B was third recurrence was fourth patent Oswald was fifth and kill Abu Bacher all by Dottie the one of the leaders of Isis one of the leaders of the Caliph it they got in there and I imagine I but the way the president trump takes credit i the the fact that people still enjoy or or look to him or look to him for leadership and we came up literally out of the ninety eight posters I brought this five posters short you know there's a couple of hundred people were waiting on line to meet me and take pictures of up to Schlep the posters and I got the square so I sat there like me and Luke Schwartz who did a great job opening for me and some people who work at the theater at the venue they're not I don't know how many I lived there for a few years a couple of years I talked to you about it before I went up there I have those posters that's primary reason I I'm just sitting there kind of sticking the credit cards into the machine doing the numbers I you know I just haven't done that a while but I had a very long line of people how many ever performed any wherever there's been many sets before there's been plenty of very funny people Richard Pryor Bill Hicks all these people but don't get it I you know I'm GonNa go ahead and talk about my set in San Francisco like our president because I we should be able to look up to the president it was perfect set it was good it was good and all the people were great and I was happy to see everybody a right Eh to ninety percent off retail the real real employees more than one hundred brand authenticated gemologist are curator's and more who inspect thousands of items deal the leading reseller of authentication luxury consignment from top designers shop from designers like Louis Vuitton Gucci Rolex Cartier and hundreds more so I went in there knowing that I had to transcend transcend the few things that city has always been kind of a haunting mind fuck for me but not in the same way that Boston was just more of in and home items shop online visit one of their original stores in Soho or West Hollywood or their newest location at eight seventy Madison Avenue in New York in store by the posters but we moved all of them and I cut a deal with those last five people I need to tell you what it is I don't want anyone to get jealous but I work something out with them because they were guess we'll hear about that perhaps remember the Kurds we abandoned because of this president why guest he lucked out this time on the timing and it's good I'm glad that guy's dead customers receive an automatic twenty five dollars off at checkout and try out the real reels white glove service for free in home pickup today I was surprised talking to begrudge him well yeah I I will I'm glad that the US military did their job and over a period of time or is able to track down you know there's no one doing it as good as me at this point in time how fucking annoying that what if people you knew in real life talk like that cheeses so stay to ensure that everything you buy is one hundred percent expert authenticated shopping consign women's and men's luxury fashion as well as fine jewelry watches I'm glad they were still there because a couple of weeks ago this president wanted to wasn't he taken all the troops ad Assyria and I imagine that the Kurds probably did a lot of the groundwork this attack I with the Promo code real that's the real real dot Com Promo code real for twenty percent off selected items so probably the best set ever not just for me but I think for any comic that has ever performed anywhere I think it was really the best set you know and I am real I drove back down from San Francisco on Sunday yesterday and man it was just like there was smoke and because I'm recording this on Sunday and right now I'm fucking Kinda Kinda wacked out of my brain on fast food products yes that home the different way men in a loopier way but I went in there for the masonic fearless keep what have we what if we talk like our president wouldn't that be unbearable motto ourselves after after him and I hope that a lot of Americans are doing that and hope their children are doing that so I'm GonNa do that now so I performed in San Francisco I had originally and so much more we got a much more rational and seeing actor Jon voight what movie they November I and you know we did it you know I I was excited to meet him he sat down and we just started going and this dimensioned Edward Norton is here did I mention it so for all you shoppers out there looking for bargains you can own iconic luxury items at unreal values with the real yes I am all right look let's get into this and it's all right I'm okay you okay we all right perfect everybody I'm trying exactly it is gone it has gone it has gone beyond self parodying into actual like space yeah we the the best comic that ever lived and yeah and I'm not I'm not making this up I and this is just truth that it was probably the best set of but to be honest with you I did have the best set of comedy ever in San Francisco I just WanNa put that out there it was perfect would've like I I had another fuck it but you have to man I had to do it I was driving down from San Francisco and I went how much they have just by browsing the website and it only takes a few quick for you to find great deals shop in store online download the APP and get twenty percent off select items rushed hanging over all of it just driving through that cow stinky part just a flat five and I don't know what came over me and it's it's Tres Post Brando I think that it's very hard for people today what happens with people like Brando is that it gets reduced into a really small narrative Ryan nation. I mean when you work with Nolte does it affect you dear are you like Nick Nolte or do you not register it it's funny you said that 'cause I I okay Edward Norton came by and we talked about his a Lotta things actually but he's got this new movie motherless Brooklyn which comes out this he I remember one time saying to him like do you get the sensation that we're just really square compared to these guys these guys that we're like all right and nick just these the a lot of them they either really took too many drugs and there's like a residual like just theater nerds right who kind of came up and got an affect of being cool in one way or another right but the truth is these guys are just authentic in and out Burger had a double double and fries you know it's like I posted a picture of it on instagram because I do that sometimes people are like fuck it's not that good in those fries seconds Oh yeah and we had both done things like Harvey Keitel right and you know and I think Bob and Al Pacino Robert Duvall untypically weird as shit and in a way that we're just not and he said I feel like I I think about that all the time really we had both done things with Deniro a new cool star it was such a seismic it was a before and after moment for American mattering car right and were youth you're young order joking aside I kind of I do have this thesis that like the first generation of of American Film Act was this it's a it's a New York cop film called Pride and glory when you work with those guys they don't like do you see yourself as part of some sort of film Asian I've had Nick Nolte in here Oh right that we're impossible and I think that if you talked to anyone who was young when he hit the screen yeah it wasn't like Mary it was like that is it that is the God head that is what we aspire wild one yeah but also also the thing is again tation thing and all these people who had never seen themselves as a even aspiring to be within that all an and people end up the end up losing an authentic sense of what the scale of the impact of something was in the context of that moment within his masculinity looks like Rome and he was so things here but he has this kind of weird marble mouthed sensitivity same with Montgomery clift to a little little bit yeah the me I hear you are there you go did you hear you now you hear my my my gravelly if you do not my gravelly affect outerspace read it's like did you work with him I did on which movie I worked with them on a movie that then he busted his neon and had to drop out of Meryl Streep and the people who came in the nextwave especially the men yeah it was all about him he he was like this enormous grab it ask they're good and now like my own catch him and so I did that that was pretty exciting and then for some reason I stopped at McDonalds and got him McDonald's coffee and this this all happened today to have this conversation with Phil Hoffman who was a friend we we came up in New York together you know starting theater companies and yeah and and honor culture and so you got Lake Jack Pacino and Morgan Freeman and rob you've all and on and on and on and on but I think they were a very different sort of people gets people like Brando in the tank top and Stanley right yeah yeah but but Brando had this incredible he had such a feminine the friends and I think like the greatest generation of American film actors came to it because of Brando and it happened right at that moment of the yeah yeah I think I think but you know in a funny way by the time we all got into those experiences honestly the people who kind of get into theater in high school and come up you know come up to bring it back around yeah you know what I mean and so I these people went out of non traditional kind of pathways into this new idea of a a naturalistic you know method it's not in sale as gourmet it's in and out it's always the same it fucking nails it it was good and felt bad about it but it was good and if you eat the fries deeply strange poetic thing sure he had but I think that if you talk to like Nicholson Niro Like his mother was an actress and his sister was to Nebraska yeah and he followed them he followed them to New York kind of for the teenage Bohemian that that he was it it created a negative love hate relationship with the work itself I mean it feels like you kind of must have experienced a bit of that too oh you did high school theater and then you kind of pursue theater in New York and you do whatever that whole thing is post Brando that a little bit there's a romance yeah a little bit I mean don't forget the sense the density at that age to not just be skeptical to know that if I let you inside it I don't for me Montgomery Clifton James Dean and these were like nickel anti hip brand I I I really don't think they were like in class of the kind of in Washington Square Park he told you that he will he worked you know he played bongos with his friends he I think what happened him having away was kind of a tragedy for for him because it's so it's so amazing and inspiring to me to see a guy at twenty twenty one years old facing this like wall of reporter we'll ruin it I will be ruined and everything I'm trying to do gets destroyed by answering your fucking question and that's an it's incredible it actually I'm in some dimensions because he he was a person who like deeply deeply loved his anonymity yeah and and the experience of being able to be kind of a wandering there was more wisdom about it I think there were there were more people to convey to you be careful yeah and aspects of it and to be totally honest like their poll stars to look you sort of felt that going in your coming up as quickly as you did that this would rip you apart publicly or that you would be denied a public life if you weren't careful talking more about them today and there's this kid he's twenty years old twenty one years old and with the world throwing adulation at him and he has talk about the musicians I love all about anything but I'm not going to unpack what I'm doing however I do think what's incredible about that to that they didn't have back then like I think one of the other figures dylan like Brando there's really is before Dylan after he wasn't there was Siemian and all that evaporated by the time us twenty five years old gone gone like and and and he and he had deep such a deep conflict about always but they were all like that I mean like Brando to you don't get a sense that that that culture even existed I mean like you're you're a little younger than me but like the idea that love social media and podcast and everything quick bait yeah the but the expectation is that things can only be enhanced by dream of of just being an artist right he didn't right right he told me once that he was he was never happier than when he was selling lemonade doc this is going to ruin our lives and by the way the break up the Beatles over it they're like we WANNA have lives we want but dylan sort of maintains that disposition today he added there's putting all this shit on him you're the voice your cash and he's just going that's nothing I can relate to man you know and they're saying what does it mean unpack it for us and he goes really watch it he'll he says in the first one he goes look I was looking at what was going on around me and I was interested in Woody Guthrie's idiom and I took it and ran it through that but I wasn't gonNA concert in just playing the keyboard with his elbows because he knows no one can hear right and just saying we're never play live again like it even them it took him a while to realize like every time I watch it it it actually kind of amazes and moves me because when you look like John Lennon later right right going bonkers in the Shea Stadium I wrote it I don't know what it means what do you think it means but for twenty really stop and think about the experience that we've all gone through and it's only intensified the modern world isn't that kind of Zeitgeist generation for him yeah but every I go back and watch Scorsese's doc the no direction home one day every couple of years oh no it's it's it's just the best and and he but then what I think is amazing in these things basically going no man like this isn't working make amends we gotta be what's going on Yup I it's it's no matter what anybody says no matter whether they get it now you know he was such a like I'm going over here once you get comfortable with what I'm doing I'm going over here and you're gonNA reticent about ruining the very bubble of like illusion they're creating by going out there and blathering for Sese made about him are that somehow he has gotten him now as a man in his seventies to say if notable there are so few and I think Scorsese has really caught something which is that this guy he always was focused on what do I you'll get it later yeah but the confidence as a very young person to basically go if you get this later if you get it now I really don't a scream and yell and go don't plug in electric but you know you're so factor yourself and if you don't come if you don't come now you're gonNA come later if you look at the new one did you like that moment in the dock where he gets rolling after he performs at the first show and the guy with the camera goes how do you feel and he turns around and goes about what Ooh like Thom Yorke and I were talking about it when we were working on the music of this film I didn't even really ever make Tom for a Bob Dylan Fan Hanes is sort of mystery at a mystique around how he engages with the press and with the public absolutely and I love that he's eternally said animated and sketch comedy for almost twenty years now there's finally a podcast devoted to all of it listening subscribe to the adult swim podcast for free and thank God we saw clown painting in my house because we talked about clowns for twenty minutes but eventually he started talking about it talk about that he literally says yeah I yeah I constructed sure yeah it was yeah it was a character but I'm not gonna but only gonNA break it down that's not what I'm here for I'm here to do it it's why he's authentically worthy of the mystique did you take this in this assessment you have as a younger person in Arizona something you're looking at over came or I were these were these lessons for you yeah yeah and I thought I mean but there were people you do that keeps me on edge about the whole thing and feeling like I'm out there on the bright white line actually doing something there's other people that were have an affect on you who you realize are either by design or because of their wisely really no wasn't but he literally said that's the one of the most punk rock things I've ever seen playing taking those you know those folk song Yup Raffi which is one of the weirdest you know I love it it's incredible but he doesn't ruin anything because what he does go hey there's a lot we can connect I can't tell you something I think but but let's be clear like Dylan did a radio show which is a great way it's one of the great music and all this shit but we had Vietnam and Watergate and it was like we did a notch this shit up and that that one bit in that film where he playing hard rain van Tire Yeah and what I love about that is he does a little in the rolling thunder think he says hey man we've been singing he basically says we were average yeah all those rips like we're going to talk about Coffee Joe Black you know all that stuff and you go it's kind of like his an heading the wrong way John C reilly in here or the other garage you know he agreed to do it and he sat down and he goes I don't WanNa talk about myself I don't WanNa ruin my mystique hey you know what I know about my marriage about this shit let's talk about great songs about Mother's Day and then you go you go just these also he's sort of this weird almost vaudevillian through there's a lot we can riff about common ground and there's a lot that I wanNA share right but think about how much value that has to have because of what you love about his own work he goes and I was like that's incredible for him no for someone to say I need time to go back to being like knee he said I hope I have the courage to actually crawl into a cave and be a monk again and lick my wounds for a period before I die we're just alone and actually with myself and not have the burden of this this thing that I am to other people I I respect the Yin Yang to that is people who are not afraid and there are very few to go hey you know what I wanNA do anything if it's not as good or better than what he's done before that's reasonable yeah right yeah I mean I something where someone said selfishly what do you what do you still hope for yourself and the remainder of your life and said I've done this Gig I've done my thing I'm not tapped into the main vein what people are needing right now and also I just want to say do i WanNa die having done the same version of the same thing over and over now some people are real like tradecraft like me passive in a weird way he's he doesn't have to do it and he needs to do it yeah I the ghost on the highway man he didn't literally have any memory of of things get lost you don't if you don't do drugs I don't know I mean having you awesome things With vivid detail and extremely narrow set of experiences and actually there was enormous blank space from decades Shen of just not doing of seeing I respect like when I hear somebody that I know or somebody like a WHO's in comedy or whatever and showed the human being I want to go back to quiet life or whatever it is I'll make furniture I wanna like you respect them I a lot I think well I emory but out of his mind remembers everything but a challenge that I remember I think my experience Bruce was remembered Dennis Hopper one time he told me once that he didn't remember large portions of the twenty years from sixty five to eighty like he didn't business and I haven't seen him in a while and they've gotten out somehow I I'm like congratulations yes God damn it good for you I talked to Bruce Dern in there he was sitting right there donuts and maybe he does like WanNa die on the road as thing I- I wrestle I do relate to the the kind of restorative sensation I don't I don't have that sensation yet but it's coming from your point Nikko During said about Nicholson that you know he just he's basically retired because his reasoning is he well how are you with that with being with yourself are you any good at it yeah I I love it yeah the longer I do it the better the more the other voices slip away gets very the dignified in the you know what Tennessee Williams caught the bitch goddess of success very very hard for people I don't know what that means to you I worked great yeah he's he's a completely out of his mind and absolutely out of mind like memory great I always find the work great everything else that comes around it messes with your head and you've got to really really work at and the dopamine hit that like comes from some sort of bullshit were the affirmations of the work yet the work is always fun with it in terms of what it does for people watching it not what anybody says about it not what gets conferred on it in the short term weird reference but I I was really struck by this thing I heard the Dalai Lama say that he couldn't see yeah he is he's funny too but but I but I saw you know I don't give a shit I don't believe that anybody's automatically immune to like the just the constant why did we do this why did I go at this year and whatever we're doing can we retain the focus on the path to achieving what we were trying to achieve got any of these other this matrix of agendas that noise and publicity yeah and you can't be immune to you can be the toughest sort of at keeping your head and I like fixated on the target that had substance who you are to even for the work you go clinically if I look and go will here's things I did that there's no question we hit the target of what we were going for yeah for our tribe for are people the people our age our friends are experienced things it connected actually many of them failed on many of the the the direct conversation you're trying to have through what you did with people and I think like I think a lot about chorus of voices trying to get you to pay attention oh my God do worse now yeah to how things are performing outside yeah about but it was a huge flop initially at the box office very very did you like the movie I loved it I was overwhelmed by it I I love the going to something with Brad and the gang and I remember I remember him giving me this funny looking going he said he said how do you think this is GonNa go and it went right on through to the people we made it for your and it says what we wanted it to say gray movie and it was about the things we wanted there are metrics that other people are we talking about specifically like if you like if you take a movie like fight club or which I would say looking back and where it sits agreeance doing it as profoundly as anything I've worked on and I've been lucky in and had some really good experiences but I also I remember connected moment but I think but I think that many many many of the things all of us would point to as things have mattered to us yeah I saw something something but what were you guys you know what were your dreams at that time just to do theatre I mean what were you really think I mean yeah I think I think but I I had a hard time just sort of owning that embracing it and I kind of went there with sort of a generalized sense of I just want to be in New York you know I wanna be also like there was the nine thirty club in DC was the great because in the INADA era you know Baltimore really only had like metal it didn't have like a like an like we we were hugging each other kind of like we we were so we were really I saw in an audience it was yeah yeah yeah and it was yet to start to do this and you know like your like because he's he was another sensitive amazing artists that sort of buckled under the weight of Yeah Asian Studies and have you ever plan No I I had him on confidence sensation that I wanted to go to New York for the theater if you went to New York in that period I think there was there was still an lure of what years were talking the early nineties where'd you come from you're you went to Yale to this thing at some film festival and and people booed it it got booed and and people some people walked out and we we sat in the back that it's funny Spike Jones and I realized that I used to go shop for BMX parts at bike store that he worked at when he was like fourteen in your was your family and do it my family's great my parents were real lovers of the arts in general yeah they weren't artists in any way they're aficionados of every oh it's weird because you don't seem like that you would have fallen into the angrier zone of that world no and we watched it and there was all this negative feeling in the room and in the end he turned to me in the dark and he goes that's the best movie I'm ever going to be in and I said I think so too like straight out of the movie itself it was like we're failing we're we're not men we're like we're like all the all the wrong things are happening and we were kind of like thing I loved music loved theater love and so so the household was filled with that kind of stuff yeah that's nice yeah and one of my uncles is a great musician in one painter and my mother taught Shakespeare and okay you know went took two plays in my father was a opera buff and really theater buffet what to college yeah and I used to go down to New York all the time from New Haven C. C. plays it was Undergrad Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah I studied history and and there was this like mid Atlantic all rock station called W HFS was incredible and that had all the Brit pop the clash yeah greatest books ever written by artist about him his own life I think it's what was surprising to me about how hard on himself is I mean Jeez yeah I said I think it's GonNa go very badly and he said I do too let's get high and he had a joint always did that and and I remember we went and that no not like that no I I think he he dealt with this all in that Broadway show we as also one where'd you grow up near Baltimore so all this stuff all the free museums and you had the Baltimore had a close to DC fear yeah and and and to unpack it in a way that has value for other people so that they can continue to see themselves in him now that even though he have the instinct and the capacity to dig that deep into what his own metamorphosis was from pain and poverty and work on mind I I had the sensation of like could I have bought my Shimono cranks from spike when we were both like Klay for thirteen fourteen the music scene it was like it was like you were there like springsteen right or or you're like mase yeah but but then well like in you let's go back to like when you're sitting there with the with Philip back in the day I mean what were your goals how did you come to New York we were close to DC to go right around so we had like you know center stage was Great Regional Theater in Baltimore but then DC had obviously the national theatre and things like that or the narrative of of getting out just like the narrative of getting out and I talked to him about this once darkness on the edge of town such cinematic breath good punk scene for Gaza Ghazi minor threat and that was an older cousin who played me rem and so I I was affected by that in DC in Rockville area Do you think you cross pat we I live when he said that he said you know I used to work at like this thing and I it melted we've been doing this together for a while I've been doing this so that we could feel these things together but now we gotta deal with my ghosts and we're all hitting the yeah yeah we we did a When when it was the thirtieth release yet I I got to do I did this I interviewed him about like darkness and he seems pretty sweet to know likes the Swedish I I I think I just felt alienated and I mean who does I don't trust people who don't the themes is saving his life as much as it saving everyone else's life to me that's the only way you can play stuff you wrote when you were twenty five forty years later with the kind of conviction actual right like almost spiritual wants of all the critics who panned raging bull and then ten years later put it on their best of Libya and you just WanNa like fuck put your middle finger up -ffiliated in high school had a big effect on me even though that wasn't like the hip thing that people forget though like if you were from that east coast it's like he just keeps keeps taking you into like well that's the amazing thing about into a new level right right when I talked to him though ingenuous but it's what got him through I agree I think I think that his conviction that doing the work and finding to me like it's the only place where he can trust and feel okay and not feel afraid you know I think from people like him I've never met Dylan I'm not sure David Jones yeah and just be like hey yeah like like he would talk to you as the guy just like us does the work right builds the thing not everybody has to live in thing right it doesn't have to be a thing you walk around in all the time I didn't yeah anything about him and I got him at a good moment because I think that's ultimately what he started to share was you know that balance that he has to ride between I don't think that his public persona is or similar to him and never assume that's right you're like that and by the way he says it he says it's the beginning Yeah I've been working this kind of illusion this sleight of hand thing and we we'll religious conviction I think he honestly feels it saved my life it continues to save my life and right is wise and he's older and he's coming to terms with his own demons and because of his stature he sharing that in it strengthens people and make people feel less alone aw puts it out there and retreats back into a very healthy right lace on the whole yeah he was very very great I think it saying you know I mean it with you therefore right and that's why people have a thing with which again it's like it's different the only place he feels comfortable is on stage he said a ever saw I think it's very is very rare for someone of his stature to to uh-huh like no one else yeah but then if he he'd say you build it and you can hang it on the hook and walk an affect or a you know some do yeah I think what I'm always kind of more and more I don't know weighing on trying to like not keep acting by remote don't pursue a path on remote control or on cruise control where you're like Santa Path that's interesting for completely other reasons other endeavors not publicly other parts of your brain personal reasons personal or even just Yar and how does he I talk to him at his place for just the general show Ya it's heavy chatman when you're around Bruce and I wasn't a Bruce I'm sure you noticed this as well as his public persona is is pretty smooth like you know it's kind of a man just you know he's got this thing a doing other types of work did feel like the beginning sure you know what I mean that feel like a different set of muscles and and the Weirdos the everyone outside it's people were crying on the floor when he died because people were like that guy you know he made it okay for cool and he was incredibly valuable in a different way but also 'cause he would sit with you like this and he would look at you like do i WanNa do or I've got something to say go back and do it and it won't be less good because you haven't been you know out your one a year it'll be better why feel like I haven't seen in a while good you're getting hey from it and be yourself because sometimes you feel like you're doing your thing you are who you are and not every actor is going to have everybody gets retrospectives except playwrights what what if we just did a theater company that did the body of work of a playwright that was each of its seasons yeah and he enlisted great playwrights really early on because nobody treated them that way nobody said all be guess what we're GonNa do a whole thing and can you know have the privilege if you're like I'm pretty lit up about this I can't get this out of my head this is that thing that I need that record really like fill my head with great record even more I mean born to run into attleboro has really evocative have darkness darkness I should do another movie right you know what I mean and working less may actually have a double value of letting me be mean more with doc I trusted very few people thought most people were most people especially the ones attached to legacy name acting programs without getting it you started a theater group to with sort of my my friend Jim out in created this thing called the signature theatre company that was a brilliant idea he kind of like that's right he didn't he was like the king of the shifter and yet share shifter absolutely the Guy who was like hey I stand for the freaks I wanted to I I knew I knew David Bowie bit yeah we lived around the corner from each other and where New York New York I used to have coffee with him but and it seems real ernest genuine but he's right around the corner from that you know I get to I dark it's heavy and it's like how how you GonNa get into that attic for the I respect the guy and I love the record when you around him you're like this is this is waiting man that that I mean I think I think his book is great one of the paying Gig but then it was such a singular and cool thing I sort of joined that company and you've got to work with Alvian and other people like that yeah yeah and we are and you curate what you feel didn't get understood or Dunrite and everything and they flocked to to and I I got involved very early on as an actor and it was my like my first edge towns like on the war movie really really it's like film scenes barely feel film scenes of yeah people you talked to all your sense memory is going to be really like a great help you know when you're doing like dancing Harry Winston I mean it's just like the notion I still think that I'm shepard into work with them personally or and Albie as well yeah Horton foote Jesus no there they many of the greats Maria Irene Fernandez agent and that's the first unlike your my I like when people guy loved you in-depth Virjee yeah so you're in New York and you're doing that thing Kennedy study where do I start here I did some stuff in school but I studied with a variety of people in your it was a truly he he was like to me a great carpenter he he would say you need a lot of tools in your kit you should know about at the notion that there's an idea about acting that's encompassing it's ridiculous sure is complete now to go from primal fear to the the musical that like some like when when prime breaks and it's exciting and big and you know everyone's lit up about you and you get offered a musical I mean were you like them Miller and Sam Sheppard Oh really foot men and do it yeah Oh yeah we did seasons with every great American playwright whose lives it's still an and then later Jimmy many years uh-huh oh that's great well I mean that must have been mind blowing I mean we saw what a gift like a coincidence in time to involve with something like that to meet do they were like tail end of someone else's legacy try to hold onto like a halter personality right they were creating dependency between themselves and actors not in their own little intimate any bakers yes she was one of our writers and residents yeah great for three or five star John There Yeah right wow now I love when people were telling thing when it's a real barometer if a person comes up advocation yeah and then gets trapped out by the Soviets cracking down in Prague makes a movie in the US it doesn't do well at all rarely do people work like that yeah he he was he was very unique in the sense that he had this baked in what I've called healthy this idea of how to approach things but that won't work in everything you should know about this and I thought that was the right thought because I remember thinking at the time actually early on I'm just GonNa try that I I think the dancing wasn't like that I made that I made that before before for the first movie came out I made me age under the communist like you know your Iron Curtain System has to become an artist up and through blur Larry Flint before premier came up now yeah we were just finishing it up when it came out did sort of rush of movies yeah yeah they weren't actually trying generally trying to empower actors to be professional create keep the cult going yeah and basically constant you're not ready right this Guy Terry Schreiber going grab a bite so great but more because nobody's bothering you nobody's saying these things but you're working with millers forman right you know and she was wonderful it was an incredible time I I still feel it was very heavy but by weight not for the reasons that become complicated and you know he told me he considered suicide he he said he thought I can't go home I have no career I've nowhere to go yeah and then he may Cuckoo's nest which by the way nobody like low end deal from ours but again to me here's a guy who's just like hey everything that's great feels unstructured he would cross cameras so that if anything happened he got it he would let improvisation between actors go on and on and on the yard perspective because you know he lost his parents to the Gestapo when he was nine he survived he lived the war out is an orphan and then comes later Jim and I built this huge performing arts center on Forty Second Street that signature it's it's three three theaters frank gehry designed it and if I don't know if I've been there I'm getting sit at his feet yeah like and watch him do it affected me forever and it and it was unencumbered by bullshit you know half-baked every I mean I remember him saying to me like I was nervous I was like I don't there's things about this I don't understand the way he worked with so different from and who to me was one of the like probably in the Pantheon of the top ten people in film that I would fantasized about working within we don't see it happen as though well performed play yeah it can't possibly have been gotten and then he would sorta go no you know I got provides I do yeah yeah but I sometimes where I was at the time coming from theater I I found myself going we'll we're supposed to be doing a given thing today and if yeah I think he had been his films have been nominated for like as many as anyone history that and here he was like every single one that I've done felt like renew your knowing who you were and he was having me go off and work on the script with him and it was like wow he's validating me and it's not wanted but they needed independently all the studios passed on it every single studio passed on it and they spent months shepherding around critic Michael Douglas Yeah and and because of me no you know what I mean these things and when you get downloaded from people who've done the shit right you're like this is like the forever stuff yeah this is a very half baked idea or we're we're way out on a limb we're failing yeah everyone's telling us we're failing yeah no one wants to see a movie about Mozart about learning the things his sense of the plasticity of film was amazing he believed in casting and editing and shooting was just you realize that for them if felt beyond risky not on the rails right it's a very important thing to learn filling up a gas can roy that he was going to assemble a machine around later right yeah and that was incredibly eye opening to me and said Michael Douglas said you go take a vacation I got this and Michael Muscle Dat mover around to critics yeah until there was such a weight behind it yeah he got this in curator of things too like he has this new persona of the guy that just going to die on the road in his western jacket yes really kind of to learn yeah because then you just you're gonNA get into the weeds on anything right do that has ambition you're going to get into the weeds he he was he had this meter for the that go against everything you believe every well it was incredible as I'm going to talk about like when you talk this little bit not a little bit and you and I began to realize that he was he was just pulling out of a cliff right he wasn't even remotely attempting to sculpt right things about fame relationship with flint or the script what was he going for housing things it was the way he worked with so fluid and so on at in evaluating yes let's let's work let's dig in let's do the thing on that sort of set a standard yeah what what could be better and he thought that like this is like 'cause rare on I I did this film you know my first one I promise here but then I was doing this woody Allen the second film I do with the Woody Allen film around there was a musical he's always like yeah you're like yeah we were like sentimentally breaking out this Mucci Dosa him where's that I haven't I haven't put on this machine and the only way to not panic and in a way to actually lean in is to go this is how these go like this is this is how these go like like the sensation this happened the sensation of disaster right is pretty intrinsic to many of the best things and I mean I imagine you experience going back to actor's too is that you know we're here to do the best thing we can do and if if I'm in a situation where I don't feel that's happening yet I'm going to have to to step up yeah or or I'm just trying to reconcile whatever this reputation being challenging well it's also it's also in a creative sense and it's almost to me like is very hard to imagine something that's really good that wouldn't be oh that there's not a lot that gets done that really messes with your head in any number of ways that isn't sting and when people for Card or push hard or have opinions that are about the thin nobody who's serious goes what an asshole you mean that you won't say hey what about this what about that that's how things that are good get done and and the thing is like the people oh to shit like great things come out of people pushing each other hard yeah and fincher pushes everybody hard and he's revered by it's like I like exerting ego or domination right although he probably go yes I am no he's not he's he's trying to make something great Alan he challenges directors like finishers challenging he's demanding it's like yeah but the idea that we don't like that is ridiculous things to get a lot but he's he's the funniest another fucker I mean he's so funny he's got vision I mean what you can do I had island all who were chasing those things when you get it done you're like locked in for life like you have that experience together for life and then you and you also have the evidence of the work when also 'cause it's not they're not when people are making it about them or it's it or it's all about friction having peripheral things to the thing is foremen and and and fincher and and even what he allen to a certain degree that you know it seems that what was set inside of you in terms of who you respect in this we're all just we're all laughing all these pictures or we're being absurd And I I just I was Kinda looking at these pictures I was filled with filter world that tells stories about these things that sound good because they have conflict with them it happened when we did American history x a tricky beast right now and when you're doing it like finding those things it's it's tricky it's it's it means it's elusive and you're you're out on a limb I had to watch two of that guy's movies and go whatever he's doing to get that I wanna crawl inside and experience what it is it doesn't mean it won't be difficult and I WANNA make sure the balance of of the kind of visceral impact of these very negative antagonistic ideas younger rage that it resolves out into everyone who works with him for it you'll hear some funny he I interviewed him and we did like two and a half hours and he decided it wasn't complete and he wants to but isn't he but it was an important piece of work to him and he wanted the process to go on and on and on and there became these like logistical realities with the studio that but let's start the thing that's the thing that I find myself always wanting to like call bullshit on people will say you read reducted Edwards Tony came out who has done really funny things over the over the years yeah performance art provocative pieces and he kind of started turning his we we didn't fuck we didn't come we didn't come here you know to cruise control and we came here to see if can we do anything interest Latian ship with the studio and I got kind of like you know kind of pulled into it by default in a way because me and my friend David David when it reached a certain point they mostly just put a cap on like right this is as far as it can go and then what I would call the performance artist of gets even sided I think he struggled literally to let go of a thing that had a lot of density Elvia nobody goes noise yeah well I mean because that's it well from what you're saying and from the guys you work within the training he's sort of got on the job with me a lot of intensity a Lotta density nuance that we all felt you want to get this right like this saying some stuff and he summed that we would like almost be in tears at the struggle when we get through stuff we are like hugging each other and what was the struggle of that movie like that I I saw within this theme of kind of the manufacturing of of problems problems it made me laugh it made me I was filled with failing of like affection yet bordering on like longing I was like this is just this was just yeah this is Great Elissa actors know that we all did this is even before Click Click Bait Mason worse but the manufacturing of antagonistic story is but like I worked I worked hand and glove with Tony Kaye we were running and gunning and yeah guerrilla right shut that thing like true guerrilla style and really aren't think I think dodged a bullet because that would sound like I have a negative view of relieved that you're not the hulk today not not even for me in the seventy feel like you dodged a bullet with you know not having to be the hulk for your life his character has a something so like mythic in it yeah that people of substance have taken wax at he and Mark Ruffalo is like one of the best actors generation you know and it's like that should be telling right instead of like like it's like good people Tony Tony Tony is a provocateur right but if like if I saw Tony Today I know for sure we'd run up to each other and I've seen him in years and you yeah the performance art piece that made it seem honestly like something more negative than it was when you went in truth they just didn't understand kids one day we'll see it it's like being part of the tradition of people who have done something sure good I got into Lula Terry and I were really trying really understood as kind of a person not able to manage a Lutheran Tori trip and the idea that in the next one he's coming into if you go for the ride and at the end it's not your name just shake hands you're like we survived yeah we did we went to help them back we did it we he knows we made something really amazing terrific and I know I've heard from you know he's proud of it and I I'm proud of the way we did it together was knit we had rewritten it kind of our story so I was involved in it right Allie but ultimately what he he turned his like argument with the studio indiscretion had we had things my deep love the comic we were incorporating characters Sampson and things that were were really deep part of the artists very passionate and he a great photographer to which is not being reductive he is a he he shot that film shot and operated here you know and he the Hamlet I'm like yeah I mean an idea that being part of that's fantastic it's like it's I love it I love I love that it's like the guy who reaches for fire of the Gods and gets burned right and carries that burn and has a moral quantity that's why we love the bill bixby show because he's I down the road it it it it actually had very little do with me despite the belie Tony is a very passionate and I think you know ultimately though initially enthused about a certain I think there was in retrospect there was an idea about tonality and subscribed half the marvel title loved it Bill Bixby's is terrific actor sure van is a terrific actor yeah there's leverrier rap mythic story and and Louis and I were really turned on by the idea not to sound like heavy about it but I've actually kind of like real wide that character is I grew up on that I grew up on the the Comic Book Bill Bixby Show You know alert Comic Book Guy Yeah totally the tragedy that you needed to be to have a a redemptive message or healing bright and those are balanced and I I understood his anxiety in a tonal direction in the total weight of seriousness via and adult complexity that it should bear we was balls out it was it was it was great it was it was absolutely great now do you feel like in retrospect honestly there's a personal thing verge you know what I mean with all humility wasn't it ultimately their call and it became more of one thing disappointed disappointed only because the aspiration I thought we had been taking aim at felt a little shortchanged to me and the degree I felt disappointed yeah or little bit angry it had to do there was people who were long gone from marvel who had kind of sold me I felt the bill hang horrid marvel hired me to write a version of the direct rewrite the script did actually wrote like to film they were of this thing was gonna be all emerge and come together it scared people or it it it was one of those things a difference of opinion it's a yeah that's what we want right that is what we want you are saying yeah that's what we want and then it it wasn't which sometimes leave you're going an and kinda pitched to film thing of like Hulk rising in Hulk rex like that was my idea was that one is the origin story you know I wish been a little straighter about like what the depth of tolerance was for what we wanted to go for right and let me say this there the the guy's runs more when you say like oh he's the funniest that's just here he does a lot of takes that's all he says kind of purposely extreme it's like nothing could be better than being in the club with Marc he is the funniest thing we laugh about it he has kids it's it's the greatest the thing of it and he said hey there's a bunch of pictures from the set right here they are we're in send them you and I was looking at him and I was just I first of all we're all laughing much money that I I can't you know resist it might but ultimately the right thing happened which was not he seeking escape he seeking a redemption roam the curse he's put himself right yeah and that's what we were really turned on by another not ruined a lot of people really enjoy it and there are many aspects of it in any way it I think people really dig it yeah and I'm glad they do it was Birdman I did Grand Budapest most importantly I really focused on writing a thing that's been in my head motherless Brooklyn and made it yeah and it was hard to make it was hard to get the resources together it needed my focus it's been two years that have been since we started shooting it was five years before that as an actor I couldn't I I wouldn't be able to do Birdman sure at the time which is one of the greatest creative experiences of my career grant and I wouldn't have made my own the execution on that like vision visit it's like has to be one of the most successful things that's ever been pulled off in the movie business in the trade this like integrated thing like there's nothing like it ever the Marvel Universe yeah number one I saw some stupid thing Mark Mark Ruffalo is like one of my dearest friends in the business is he's one of the I mean in into this whole thing yet of this merged right RV universe that wasn't happening in all right. Yeah Yeah Yeah I went in when they came to me and said like I said listen I in which again people can really misinterpret thing the fact that the fact that I might I think you you as a Disney shareholder hard to do right I'm level shirt most of the pictures of fight club I H in fact fincher just sent me this he just sent me this thing some magazine wants to do the twenty year had no negative emotions for media which was it's like you're going in a way in a direction and that's great and I do it if we could take this on sort of the way Chris Nolan took on Batman that we'd be talking about that at the time I was like long dark and serious keeps saying long dark and serious and it's a part of this great tradition a thing was being engineered much larger than itself put away I was like well if ever me I I worry about like let's put like social media you know at the top number like dangerous offset thing but you know I I have my concerns that have nothing to do with like marvel per se onto me I think Spike Jones movie was really onto something her or not it's like people are descending I think dangerously leave I think we I it's what I would call a win win you know what I mean like I know and I really mean it like really mean it I first of all let's go I mean he like in terms of following an idea and a plan that was very true to the world of the comics and the way they all came together they annihilated it totally get like what the heck was about but when you take the measure of the whole thing you know I I had a blast I I did a different kind of movie that I've ever done without throwing it under the bus where I loved Louis Leterrier I thought he was like a a wonderful person and a really good artist and and the truth is thank you know you're like these guys are doing what they were charged with doing shirt and it's and look it has a lot of joy in it it has a lot of a lot of the humor and into this vortex of of narcissistic self narrative fantasy and fantasy and the fantasy film that's been a passion project of mine for a long time if I'm in it so I am thrilled thrilled and marquette great like he's great and has great things Feigen here I got on with him like a house on fire great guy real comic fan right I thought there was people running shop at that time who were not comic fan right who actually did not it's all been great and by the way this is the crazy thing is like Kevin feige the guy who ran that guy has a comic fan component of it that I think is if you want to say socially dangerous is that it's sort of like high fructose corn syrup it's in everything you were like you will go through the whole thing together we we were unencumbered and we recommend family yeah it's great and I I think there's this world there's this maybe just generally speaking how what are we doing that's creating activated people who don't think you know what I mean yeah and I think that let me put it this way this matrix of social media is to me I don't even think we like if fit with what he was wanting to do at the time and and by the way I pursued things that were priority for me yeah I get the dopamine gets sort of Jack Jack here but not only is nothing required I a sense of being proactive being themselves a person who as a human being with a lot of daily battles and fucking problems and everything it kind of makes everything tastes good and addictive but it it ain't making you healthy it's not helping you be a healthy physical human being right that superheroes are gonNA drop out of the sky and fix stuff but where their view of what is Roic is actually formed Nolan did so successfully with Dr go yeah with the dark narrowing into that one's a different kind of vigilante thing the hulk is a proud it's the myth of proteus facing the problems of the world what am I supposed to do what is my morality one what what is these things and you you look at our country and you worry of intensity that social media and the distortion that the intensity of that information flow which now is highly untrustworthy to and manipulated and I think that things that turn people into passive receptors of narrative in which they killed it I get that do you think it's a culturally good thing that as an artist it's it's it's a that's a different discussion mation a lot younger than you had a lot more reason for skepticism yeah to me I don't even think you can measure the multiple bye bye bye outside actors to yeah to mess with brains brains and to mess with take the measure of of the damage being done by the turbo charging within it of all of the worst yeah we came up at the same time here I am he's one of my absolute favorite actors they tried to pitch you against each other and Arnaud just people it's like this thing and it's like whatever never mind like where's your where's your and you just like hey just like just buzz right off man we we got a lot of a lot more tops like the plug doesn't have to the back of your head to be getting dangerously close to where you're being turned into an addict of the things that separate he's going to get up off their ass and do something about anything yeah a lot of what we're doing is not cultivating those people tired of them no no challenge no provocation to know raising of questions Cheryl raising questions like what am I supposed to think that is scary and like you combine that with the things that that I would say deactivate people you know act as a year doc I remember when Nevada was hitting and people were going you know why so dour why so things all the baby boomers were kind of going like what he's all grind struggle whatever but what is it that gets you sort of to go I've got I've got reserves this stuff I can do antagonist us against each other and enrolling for people were calling for it and I think that that is the the things that just tweak that in ways that amplify fear an amplified what I would call the negative reaction to fear or his capacity to like be conscious dreamer in a way or be be able to control this year yeah yeah that was literally like the flicker at the end of the movie right and the demons in our nature and also just the onslaught of information the pummeling every I think if we you know we we like say we're the first TV generation Yup and you look at debating the harder thing which is say I am anxious I'm afraid of a lot of things and I got my own deep well of daily a self-defeating reaction to fear which essentially anger yeah and not sense of conflict the since Rachel from your money and Sumer sell yeah and in many ways a upon in these games of like they talked the mass manipulation of crowds people's sense of civic connection to each other it and and the truth the truth the we got we got literally Russia working to it yeah and it's ability to concoct You know anxiety you always hear it activates are adrenal system it perks us up and Rosie American narrative right that's what's great about the best of Noir it is like Hey Sunny California the place where you go to your life love the faceless other is like part of what you should resent being afraid of whatever sure all of that d try to cultivate a positively and yeah and live in the world and be an actor in the world and everything the funny thing is is this film I can be a part of it and I can pay it forward positively you know what I mean this is like an engaged with other with other people in real life and I mean I mean there's things that part of your nihilism has been mind to use you in your anger as actor that I play is afflict he's afflicted and in his affliction he's kind of gone down into this hole of of isolation and marginalization it's what what's getting mind is your fear 'cause all human human beings have anxieties the world is just an anxious place and our brain is literally formed by the the here's the American story we're telling here's what's really going on right yeah yeah so it's always it's always had a healthy I don't think it is just cheap genre I th I think solution to hit a very strong there's a strong loop there's a powerful loop between the PA- The imaginative power of our mind That I made motherless Brooklyn Yeah it it actually took me it's in the detective Oh you got sick yeah yeah that's great actually that the character that goo about the raw plays who is a moral and ethical person who's a black woman who's in the fifties who's really lawyer and is seen as a high-fructose opiates whatever you WANNA call it it's I do think like you know like put this idea of people as copy and that's enough for me the interesting turn but I but as it got but as I got going further is that from the book no no the book takes place in the nineties make the American dream guess what built on the theft of water and incest you know what I mean like or whatever crime as Chinatown Yeah the crime under the I realized that it I wanted to break away from that kind of darker the thing and and because in the end you know as little as possible as little as possible like it's like the ultimate bleak nihilistic like and I kinda like had this moment where secretary yeah she's fighting she's fighting and when he hears about his problem she kinda says she sympathetic but she goes we all got our our daily battles hits no real reveals of usually those characters aren't aren't necessarily moralists and a lot of times heroes he's not really a moral person which most noir detective characters aren't there they're like the person who take the shadow like they take you into the shadow worlds under the has basically said to himself you know what I really don't I really don't give a shit about the forces of history leave this girl you know leave her alone and in it in some way that I can I'm not going to be passive I am GonNa get off my ass and pick aside I felt for longtime the character was great in this novel motherless Brooklyn it's it's instantly kind of memorable character and I felt kind of greedy thought maybe this terrific detective who's been abused by so many people and isolated because they didn't know what it wasn't either turn around and see the unseen took me a it took me a while to get around in my own way to embracing that what we're talking about was a big part of it because the CARA have him be affected too degree that he realizes like it's all pretty monolithic and faceless but I'm going to take a swing I'm Gonna I'm gonNA stick a knife very free wheel it's a very liberated adaption of the book interesting But I I I started feeling a lot of what we're talking about I was like I I felt has a a a sort of part of a an ideological momentum that you might even give a shit about you might not get research about it I wouldn't even say your what's your fear right and he and she it registers on him that she's she's on the line she's on the barricades in a way a real thing yeah and and in the end I think trying to get the money together and I it was difficult and it was very deeply felt and I wanted total focus like if I could not have done the work yeah or like Nicholson ends up like repeating what he did in the past where he tried to help someone insured they got hurt in the worst way and he's you know he's muttering to himself yeah they're all they are is that very American thing of going hey you're trying to put one over on me and I don't like it yeah no end up dying I mean read mcmurray dying it's kind of interesting yeah it's real but it's also just off the wall yeah it's it's a lot of things all these paradoxes I loved it about it in a way I was like that's that's a five course meal sure you know this sort of like underdog threat yeah Gumshoe County on a few movies I mean I really demanding and kind of hard to to work with in terms of takes and whatnot yet yes or is it it obviously resonates now he is sort of a Trumpian character in a way not I think what's harder yet but I've always been interested in what went on in New York in the fifties I felt that that was all your construction it's because it's interesting that the Alec Baldwin Character Food of the miss on that you think about the magnitude of how horrible it is that we sent all all these young people to lose their lives and killed three million Vietnamese and shattered shattered our country's shattered lives basically to bully and try to put down people who came to us saying are impulse is a country that was totally focused on on helping each other rise out of difficulty to a country that was where power in that like Ho- Tsim in was reaching out to the United States specifically and saying now that we have fought was essentially became the currency of the realm you know we became power became value right and we built this this war with you fought the Japanese you know we are you we are you in seventeen seventy six we want to be free people all the everything but you go back into the beginning of that and I thought Ken really eliminated in a way that is so important for people to take it this notion that it's not like flag waving patriotism without looking at what is the delta where do we what the delta between like Langston Hughes to be you we want to be I it's it's so an I just thought that film like everybody in America should see that film because in to help them become more like rice right and and we swatter we powerbroker away we said to our pals you know military industrial complex in this global presence as the as a superpower and and for all of our talk we we became the bully in some ways you I mean literally yeah they were saying that in writing that to us they they wanted us not like general they wanted US leaning in who we bailed out of World War Two go yeah go back in and build your French colonial plantations enslave these people again and then when they get pissed off and feel all we want come out from under the yoke of European imperialism colonialism we are you you are beacon help us become AAC betrayed and they reach out to you know people we are in China and the Soviet Union and you think about like the magnitude you did you yeah I had studied my father

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