The Paul finebaum show podcast is brought to you by capital. One capital. One is reimagining banking offering account with no fees or minimums that can be opened in only five minutes Capital One. What's in your wallet, Capital One? And a Hello to you on a Tuesday. We're getting ready for the basketball tournament. Tamar live from Nashville hope you'll join us then. And there you will. And today, though, a lot to do with. Let's get going right now. As I said basketball in the news and no surprise the naming grant Williams again as the SEC player of the year. Nobody wanted him a couple of years ago look at them now coach of the year Kerma Davis year ago in Tennessee, middle Tennessee, now he's beaten back everyone for SEC coach of the year with his almost rebels heading toward the NC double A tournament first team waters Weatherspoon PJ from UK just like to say that and it rhymes grant Williams, of course, in gaffer's from Arkansas big game last weekend against Alabama. That's the first team man that is Jordan bone ended up on the second team Harper Tyree Admiral Scofield on the second team. I mean, there's only room for a handful on the first day. And that's why you have so many great players on team number two. Did you know this is the first year since oh seven that? No freshman all SEC first team in the ACC Zion player the year. I wonder if he would've made first team in the SEC. Meanwhile. LSU front Nasreen cleared for the SEC tournament. He was injured. That was the that was the issue there still waiting word on Juventus smart. And we'll wait. I'm not sure we're really waiting word on will. Wade. Try get four names in a sentence that begin with a w and not screw it up. I just did. Unlike we'll wait. Rick Barnes asked about a number of things. Including his fellow coach. This. The first situation has come up in college basketball. It's going on. I've been again, I in in believe me people have been in the business as long as I have not naive about any of it. You're not you like to thank the best. And you're always thinking about the student athlete, hopefully going forward and only way it's going to get sobbed as for you know, if someone's found guilty, they got to pay the price plain and simple, and I believe you're innocent until proven guilty. But if you're proven guilty, there's a price that has to be paid. And you got to pay it. Not sure that was an endorsement will way. But who knows what do I know about the law it's presumed innocent. Nevertheless. So what else is going on? There's something else. Going on FBI has been dizzy this sounds like a TV episode of law and order. Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot. This is pretty nasty. Couple of Hollywood actors lot of children going to schools, they shouldn't be going to because they're mommy and daddy. Have privilege where have we heard this before? We'll talk to John Jackson later on well known lawyer. So well, no, we have his picture. Jay Bilas has his own picture in sodas Qiwei. He's heading to the first round. Don Jackson, send us a mug. Please. But first your phone calls. I mean, the guy's got a PR man, doesn't he? I mean, we heard from his PR guy earlier day. Where's the picture? We'll get it on later. Eight five five two four to seven. I mean, we only have somebody. We were short staffed right now. Get people working on this show you and you and me, but I don't count eight five five two four to seventy eight five is our number. We would love to hear from all of you the scandal from the FBI pretty pretty bizarre. When you get right down to it all kinds of the battery going on there. Didn't amazingly didn't affect too many schools in the south of any. Former coach former assistant coach from someone in this part of the world was implicated, but mainly a bunch of Hollywood types. Again, we will get your calls tomorrow. Live from Nashville, we begin our coverage of Tuesday with William and South Carolina. How are you William equal? How we are doing great. Thank you. Yeah. Yes. Me thing. Yes. This whole this whole FBI. And I was watching you when outside lines early, and I would say, wow. Do you think this will triple trickle down to like the major college sports where the NCAA finally win? It's far maybe paying layer. Yeah. I mean, I I listen. You got for listening Huffman and a couple of others involved here. I do not think this isn't necessarily going to impact the NC double A the NCW issued. A typical bogus statement today. Saying we're monitoring the situation by watching CNN and Fox News. I I mean, we're talking about sailing teams crew teams. There's I think one case SE where they were using football. But I don't think this is going to really impact. The big time college programs at all I think this was a a scheme that someone concocted and a lot of rich parents decided, you know, what I'm going to see if I can get my son and daughter into that school using athl- athletics. As a as a as a decoy? You know, when I when I saw at the top of Odiele. Falls but lane with both feet on the way. But you know, some of William I don't want to come off like. A socialist here because I'm not, but this has been going on forever. I mean, we all know someone with money who got their child into a better school than we did. Likely. I mean, I friend in college. I mean, this guy couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time. But but his father was a was a millionaire doctor and he bought him into one of the top NBA programs in America where the guy did nothing with it. But. I I didn't I didn't have that kind of money because I didn't have a dad, and my mom was was working as as a government receptionist. So I was lucky to go wherever I could. But I heard it all the all over. I I mean, it goes on went on back then it went on twenty years ago. And obviously it's going on now. I mean, the only difference today is you got a bunch of Hollywood types involved. Who want their daughters and sons to go to Warton and Harvard and Yale? And I mean, they they just can't stand the thought of maybe them going to a state university like the rest of us. I mean, I mean, you I mean all you've been saying over the years. No, right. So I mean really have nothing to. Yeah. So. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't surprised today. When I heard it. I mean, I was I was I was sick. And the that. Yeah. If they but on the other hand, I mean. Again, you have employees. Let's say you have a coach at a second or third tier school making eighty ninety one hundred thousand dollars, which is still a lot of money and somebody offers them four or five hundred thousand what are they supposed to do? I don't want that. Oh, cool. You're gonna give me five times when I'm I got my pocket right now the sneakers kid into school well down. I mean, listen college. I probably should shut up because I'll I'll be I'll be jetted I care. But what I said on that show today. I mean, college presidents are no longer educators their fundraisers not seen. I have seen it firsthand dealing with college universities. We're instead of talking about academics and an integrity and things that can help the student. All they talk about is money how much money can you? Give us how much money can you raise for us? What's it? You know, you know, anybody. I mean, I mean, I if you've got anything in this world, those colleges will hit you up. I mean, you'd better hold your wallet. When you sit down with a college educator. I see that. Now. On the thank you. Thank you for taking my call. Listen it was fake. Well, you got it. And I'm not gonna make too many friends, but I'm just I am spitting the truth you keeping the one hundred. That's why we got thank you very much. There goes my professorship anyway. Eight five five two four to seventy eight five. There goes the honorary degree, I guess. Oh, okay. I won't be there. I don't I don't to give the commencement speech. After all we'll be back more of your phone calls right after this. We welcome back. We're back talking about a number of things here on the show. Let's continue with more of your phone calls at eight five five two four to seven to eight five wit, Mississippi is up next. How are you wit? I'm good good. I'm good. You're good. I'm good. They should be name. I'm okay. You're okay. I've been married me. I'm I'm great. What about you? It. I'm good, Paul good. He's still good wit. Okay. Okay wit. Let me let's let's get to some topics here. What would you like to talk about? Just how Paul I mean, this this woman as coach of the year if it sure did he did that because he he he was a not only a fantastic higher by Ross Bjork. He he coached like we've seen him coaching the past at middle Tennessee in really remarkable story when you compare. This program which had some players, by the way, but Indy. Kennedy for whatever reason could not get keep this car in the middle of the road. Yeah. Tell you what would predate the call. It was the point. You don't them? She'll that's my man. I don't even have to say his name mad. How are you my friend for a week? I don't know about where we're where it was just. You know? It's like, okay. No. But I'll contact you by Saint in football. Okay. That guy you you've run on this show from Nagy network. Yeah. I forgot his name. But agrees wanna visit. We had to say it JIMBO continues to bring in their class to bring in right now. You've got a good one in and twenty nineteen degrees in a good one in twenty twenty. It's all independent what kind of season they have this year in twenty pain but ever could season. I think an bring a good one and twenty twenty and you win and championship into dozen twenty four don't add a couple of questions for you today. Okay. Where what are the questions? One thing. Tell him on will leave for the NFL to you think anything would be family. Do you think they replaced them with you know, I'm just not met? I I agree with the first part of your conversation. I think I think the pro I think this program is really in tremendous shape. Thank you for the call David in North Carolina. Hello, david. Hello, paul. Thanks for taking my call. Thank you. Just a nerdy comment about. People buying their way into colleges or universities for their. Yes. Or anything, you know? It's the same for academics. As it is for sports. I think sure is what matters most is how you perform to get there. You can get you know, you can get a degree from Stanford University graduate with a two point. Oh GPA and you'll get overlooked for the guy who went to Cal State Fullerton, and graduated Magna cum laude. It's just persistent hard work that gets you success. It's not the college. Go to. And that's just the comment. The other. Brief question is just wondered if you read the article today by Mike Adams in the Knoxville hit. On the one about Tennessee being the amateur team best. Well knows specific about Holly Warlick's possible. Sorry. I did. I did read that. Yeah. John Adams wrote an article talking about possible replacements for Holly Warlick. I think the the most interesting name. He was Kim Kim all candy from Baylor. She's wanted to couple of championships. Tremendous coach close friend, Pat summitt couple of other names on that list as well. I mean, I I still think that's a situation that nobody really knows the answer to nobody's saying anything. I think once the bids come out next week. There will be a little more clarity. Do you think that it will make Phil Phil formers decision easier harder? If they get get accepted, the NC double I think it will make it more difficult. But I don't think it matters, David if you're if you're concerned about the long term health of the program what difference does it make being the last team in. That's not what Tennessee basketball is about. And I think if you base decision on whether you get in a tournament or not, you're you're you're not you're not really evaluating the situation in the correct manner. But then I'm not the director. He is. And I think he has a special in king awareness of that situation because of what he personally has gone through. But I don't know how he could argue that she should remain as the coach, you know, don't enough kind of felt that way for two years. But I kind of also go along with the Mike Adams background thesis that he's not that concerned about the basketball program. He came in there pretty much making it evident that he was mainly concerned about the men's football program or the football program, and he wanted to concentrate on that pretty much, but I don't listen, I understand what what would Adam said. I I don't know. I mean, Phillip Fulmer is bright, man. He if I'm sitting here three and a half hours from Knoxville, and I hear this noise on a daily basis. I guarantee he's hearing it. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Understand. He's in a predicament, though, he's he is an, and that's I I do think he has to wait it out with his decision be easier. If they don't get in the tournament. But I don't think anything's gonna champion. There aren't any more games left. So I mean, they're sitting there most experts believe on the inside. And I don't think you can you don't want to endanger your team by replacing the coach before the parents come out. Yeah. I can see that part because you could. I mean, it's not it wouldn't be fair to cost us players a chance to go to the tournament. But it shouldn't be getting internet shouldn't be the final arbiter of whether Holly keeps your job or not meet it sort of seems like you're saying, she's gone. Anyway, you may be and I listen to this is my my theory could be wrong. But I think they've already worked something out with her. I don't think she'll be back. And if she ended up back then good for her. Okay, howling. Anybody would be very happy about it. But other than maybe she and her friends, but thank you for the call. And by the way, I'm not I'm not offering opinions. I'm just giving I'm giving evaluation of of the circumstance, and I think anyone who looks past the obvious is not being honest. And one thing we do try to be here Homer. What's up Hummer? Hey this Sunday, brother good. You know? I am what's going on Homer. I'm good great. I think which full with I think that was like on the balanced funny. I thought it was funny. I hope he wouldn't truth. Call because I thought it was humorous. I wanna ask you something. You know? I don't have question for Elvin. Whatever it is. I came out bow. We'll way. Yeah. I Thurs person popped in my mind was nods read because he came from so far away the us pay possibly. That. LA's Sheila sitting artery lays to sing. They've already said he's playing in the tournament. They have your well being a guest just throw that theory one you're going to the don't his term there tomorrow. Okay, man, give you basic by he's going through the airport and you see a mob of angry clouds don't put round go for the jugular here. Great for DiPoto. Run is up next in Knoxville hell Orion. Hey, paul. How you doing? We're doing great. Thank you for calling. Hey, thank you a greetings from rocky top. And I want to congratulate great Grint Williams on to great seasons. Kids played his butt off. Let me ask you a question. And I was surprised that Jordan bone. Did not make first team. Were you surprised about that? Yes. I was and but you look at the first team, and it's just a matter of. It's I I can't remember who votes whether it's a coaches or or media, but it they're only five spots. Oh, I agree. And I I knew Admiral would be on the second team. I just thought Jordan Murphy on the first thing as well as he's played this year in rent friend us off the end and being a, you know, a captain on the new I totally agree to me. It's just. I mean, he's he's such a valuable player. But I. You start looking around this league. And where do you and who do you knock out? I guess it was the question. Agree. I agree. There's this league is so deep in talent. But you know, anyway, one more thing about the vault, and I want to talk about the scandal thing is is I would not be hurt from my big orange to be a number to see in the tournament. We've ever been a number one seat. But I would take a number suceed to have an easier route through the tournament to me the two seat in the one seat. I I understand there's a difference, especially where are you? The are you the are you the fifth team in the tournament at number two. Or you the eighth there is a difference in that. 'cause I it it doesn't show up until later. But if you're the two you've got to deal with the one in your regional, if you're the one you've got to deal with the two I mean, I know that sounds like, you know, third grade arithmetic, but but know, there's a difference between two and five there's a difference between two I mean it. It's a simple. I if the chalk holds up. You know, one place four in the in the Sweet Sixteen and then you and you play too. But you're not both know the chalk never holds up. Every you start seeing these crazy upsets, and then you're just I mean last year Kentucky, I don't think Kentucky had to play a good team. And they still got and they still lost a loyal. I say loyal loyal turned out to go to the final four. But you look you look at they they had Tennessee in their bracket. Tennessee lost in the second round, the low, then then Kentucky Liz, anyway, we are up against a break. More to a lot of guests as well. We'll talk about the big scandal today later on the scandal of the other day coming up next Jay Bilas will join us. Welcome back. So many things to talk about with our next guest. We had we still do intend to talk to him about the will Wade FBI situation. But there's another FBI situation that broke earlier today and admission scandal that is far reaching. That's where will we will begin with our very special guest. Jay Bilas from ESPN. Jay, thanks, so much for the time the varsity blues scandal, I mean, I thought I was dreaming this morning when I looked up at the television. What were you thinking when you saw it? I thought it was just bizarre. Paul, you know, there there's so much so much of of the culture now with young people growing up in sports is that they may play sports in order to get into a better cut of college or university that they could get in as just a regular student. So you do see a lot a lot of parents kind of pushing their kids rap let x because it helps get into a better school. But this kind of thing is just so bizarre. And and you know, I just can't believe people would engage in this kind of thing. Who cares for your kid goes to school? If you're gonna you know, if you're gonna pay people to take exams and all that stuff. It's just really ridiculous. Yeah. And the other side, obviously, some people were more than happy to take the money weren't they? Yeah. They. Yeah. Exactly. And and so you know, when when all these administrators are standing up. Shaking their fists at us talking about integrity because they don't pay athletes. You know, then they got all this stuff going on. It's really kind of really bizarre situation. Speaking of bizarre, let me get to one of the biggest topics that we've had here recently. And that's the will Wade situation heading to the NC double A tournament. But maybe without him. You've had a chance to digest this since last week. Obviously you followed the data's controversy. I your thoughts on on where we are. With will Wade right now. Well, I was kind of looking at LSU and Joa liba in the president LSU. You say what took you so long? You knew all this stuff in October. You know, when I went Desi media day in Birmingham will Wade was answering questions about being on a wiretap that and I I don't know whether LSU thought that the government was making all this stuff up. But it didn't take a genius to figure out that this is going to happen sooner or later, it's going to happen to a couple of other coaches, and and I I can't for the life of me figure out. Out. Why you know, why a player has to be suspended at the whiff of something some sort of impropriety, and they're they have to be proven innocent in their guilty until until proven innocent, and the coaches there has to be a body in smoking gun. You know, the coach has to be standing over a body with the smoking gun and a knife in order to be suspended. It just makes no sense to me. Well, I mean, they're two different issues here. Devante mart has not played. The school has still not told us whether he will play Friday and in Nashville, but to suspend a coach indefinitely, you've alluded to in your first answer, but reading the tea leaves here. What do you think that is indicating that they they will not let him play? And then they it seemingly leaked the story that he wouldn't cooperate on the advice of counsel. Are you talking about we'll wait or Giovanni? Let's start with worldwide because I think smart, it's a little more complex. Yeah. I mean, I I don't think it's a hard decision for LSU. They should fire them. And and I know that they're going by the contract, and they have certain thanks to go to but I'd fire them right away. If you want to sue me Sumi, we'd be more than happy to go through discovery. And a wrongful termination go ahead because he's not going to sue anybody. So they I think they're wasting their time and their energy here. But if they wanna go by the contract by the contract. Devante smart. If they I think the university put a statement, essentially saying there, there's no indication that you might they smart engaged in Iran doing but out of out of Nevada pundits of caution. They're they're holding about competition. So as it apparently. So as not to play that eligible player to curry favor with the NC double A, which is really going to be an issue here. But if there's no hint of wrongdoing on his part. I don't know why they're holding out. But you know, the truth is they're them out because they know will Wade. Is it has been engaging in improper activities here and nobody's going to be out of wiretap talking about paying people if they haven't been paying people that that's that's clear that that went on here. So that that's why they're doing it. In terms of the the incident tournament. I mean clearly there projected high, you know, all that do they have a decision to make or or do you think they'll just go ahead and play and worry about it later. Yeah. I think they'll go ahead and play. I don't I don't see that pulling out of this thing. There's too much money at stake and and too much for their university. And they I don't think they want to have their people sort of storming the offices with torsion pitch works over this thing, which which it sounds like some what do, you know with all this free will wait nonsense, and you know, fire Joe Lee, they wanna fire Joe Leyva for other reasons, that's fine. But this is one of them. It's just sort of a bizarre situation that that we have here with the way college sports works that you know, they they have the hold players out and all that stuff, and the committee the selection committee can't really do anything right now. And I don't think they should. I'm not a big believer in vacation games all that nonsense. So they're just in a tough spot because their system, you know, this the the rules don't allow the players to have anything, and when they get up, but that the whole system isn't a bind. But you know, I think I think what this what this ultimately does show us. I mean, you'd have to be painfully naive Paul to believe. Leave that all of this. You know, this this stems from one agent. So that's all there is is just this one agent. Just these few that were charged. That's all that's going on here. It's not happening anywhere else. It's not happening in football. You know, I I'm fine with people saying, hey, look, not everybody's doing. But you also have to accept like I accept that. I know not everybody doing. But I also know not only these few are doing it. Because I know that it's extends a lot further beyond this. Jay, there is a term coming up. It's almost it's hard to get to the tournament with all the other scandals going on. But I know that is business as usual. Let me get your thoughts. First of all. Year at the ACC Zion. Williamson returns, what your what your best guess on how he's going to look when when we see him later in the week. I think you'll look really good. And and I think that that will be one of the two three best teams here in Charlotte at the ACC tournament. And I think that puts them on the on the to line at the worst and and possibly on the one line if they make it to the the ACC tournament final. Yeah. He he brings a whole different dimension. Obviously to that team. But you know, it's funny Paul like, this is this is one of the stranger years that I've ever seen sort of in the tournament, selection and seeding process because we've got so many frankly average teams that are going to make the tournament field that never would have made it in past years like teams that have fourteen fifteen losses and can barely, you know, play their way out of a paper bag are going to be in are going to be in the NCAA tournament as at large teams. And then you're going to have the the. The annual debate about hey, we've got some quality mid majors that are sitting at home in favor of these major conference teams that barely won half their games and this year, they may have a point most years, they don't this year that there may be a point of Belmont gets left out. You're going to be I think you're going to hear some screaming from somebody like me. I if they put, you know, a team like Indiana in Texas or something like that where you're looking at teams with fourteen fifteen sixteen losses that that's going to be hard to stomach, but but that's sort of the year. We've had Jay Bilas great stuff as always many many. Thanks. So look forward to talking to you soon griping with your Paul. Thank you Jay Bilas leaving Knowstone on turn their about. We'll wait. You heard him loud and clear, let's take a break. Get your reaction to that more guests later on as we continue here on a Tuesday. We're back here on the program with get your reaction to Jay and everything else a five to four to seventy eight five Ray is in Fort, Wayne, you're on. The air. Hello, wayne. Elleray paul. We're doing great, right? Hey, you were talking about the big money all the universities wanted to sounds like the Michigan bullies. They met to the Rose Bowl too. Since two thousand six be line. Just got but went by Michigan state for a big basketball title. And you know, you had the top twenty five there, and I didn't see having messiah their Jimmy higher ball. Where'd you got him dead last probably? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Those guys all they care about is the money money money. That's all comes down to. Money makes the world. Go round doesn't it. Yeah. Does it's kind of sad that we don't. We don't really have much honesty and integrity left in this country. What was what was the? What was the last time? We had it right? I don't know. It's it's a hard one to figure it because they NFL base major league baseball. I mean basketball teams like all of them how they all got their scandals, don't they? They sure do. Well, thank you for the call James and Michigan on the air next. Hey, james. Are you doing Paul doing great? Longtime listener first-time caller. I was calling from big ten country here in Taylor. Michigan is I was wondering about if you think that re Travis will be back for the tournament. Yes. The LSU said he will be no excuse me. Excuse me, Craig myself. I was thinking of Nasreen. No, I I got to to play. I got the Kentucky player in the and the LSU player. Confused. We don't know yet is the answer. Hopefully, we'll know by the time we get up there tomorrow. I hope so so I thought the whole team go up and and have a good sewing. I've been Miskin my whole life, but a the UP fan my whole life. So I'm just hoping they do well in that he gets to play. Thanks, paul. Thank you very much. James great to have you on RJ in Kentucky next up on our program. Good afternoon. Hey, bob. Hey, they're good afternoon to you paw. You hit it on the issue when you said that we'll wait if he was just been a so-so coach this year, he would make gone. I don't have any doubt about that. I mean, I am by the way, I think the university intends to get rid of him. I think just letting letting the process play out, so they can have a better legal standing rat. We'll polynot thing is football and the basketball softball of gymnastics surfing, the the SEC's. I always got top notch coaches who gets the credit for this. Listen, I think I think it starts at the top the Commissioner Greg Sankey made it a priority for everyone to elevate the game. And I think once one and I'm not talking about Kentucky here. I I think once the the middle of the pack starts getting better everyone else has to get better. If if if Auburn hires, Bruce Pearl, what's Alabama gonna do this? So they go out and try to find a better coach, they probably didn't. But they try to. Sport the SEC's got several teams ranked in the top twenty five. I mean it happens. Oh competition makes everyone better. Now, the hard part about personnel. I don't know what you do RJ. But anyone who's ever tried to hire people? The the hit and miss ratio is very high. So we all miss we all think this person is is a can't miss, and they are just like Vanderbilt thought drew was was was an I thought he was too. He hasn't turned out to be very successful. Avery johnson. Looked like a can't miss. He was and he wasn't. So you just don't know circumstances, sometimes dictate why certain coaches are successful when some aren't. Thank you. Thank you. Great to hear from you. Let's check in next Shaw in Georgia. What's up Shaw? You paul? Thank you very much. You were talking about when you're in college and spend a very similar to me. My my dad died when I was a young teenager. My mama's running the business back in the late sixties and early seventies. Which is unusual time. She got me through college and work the situation, and it's even better now. Thank goodness. It doesn't matter where you I went to Georgia serving my my daughter one of my daughters, graduated in Dalian for Georgia. Southern mother at graduate is the pharmacist from Georgia. You know, thank God, Georgia scholarship, which is wonderful down. Here have that kids so much, and they go course both of them has certain out of loans to pay off. But they were in situations where they can do it. So I don't anybody putting anybody down because they don't go to the biggest college in the world or Harvard or Yale or any of that kind of stuff. And I didn't think you were. But I think some of the other guys were these folks say what you go to that. You got said, and you know, my daughter's graduating mccoo law and all that stuff. I graduated. Thank all. And I feel did. Okay. On situation. It's still worked out a lot and feel that. But you don't matter. You know, just doesn't matter where you go is what you do with it. When you get out situations the way I look at it. And I think sometimes people were too much about appearances. Well, they do. And and I think listen. Shaw. We you understand it. And I think I can talk to you. Because of what you said about our our backgrounds, but some people worry spend their whole lives worrying about what their neighbors think. And you know, it starts with who they hang around with in high school. I it affects maybe who they marry and then some people just are real. And and they do things because they believe it is correct. It it goes it cuts both ways. And it sounds like you you had a very honest and authentic upbringing and for that you should be thankful. I'll play as we've talked before. And I told you I was a coach, and I was in education thirty eight years, and it's amazing. How it changed from the beginning to the end about this stuff? You're talking about from. And I'm talking about his force. Everybody plays baseball year round. Everybody plays softball year round. Everybody does this stuff year round. 'cause we're gonna try to be as good as the next guy. We're all college athletes where we all professional athletes, and it's good for our parents to be involved with you. That's wonderful. But they also need to have a lot to do another thing. Because we I look at you, Sean, listen, I I always hate to to leave our conversations. They're always interesting. We're up against the clock. But talk to you very soon. We're back with a couple more hours.