Kroenke Ranch The Kilcoyne Conversation
The latest kill jodphurs station going off the beaten path. A little bit. We're not talking hardcore sports. Somebody who played in the nba and the nfl or major league baseball. This is about stan. Kroenke and his latest legal battle not about the saint louis city county sports authority. Take on the nfl. That billion dollar lawsuit that still in the works but this is about something else. That's taking place in canada where stan kroenke owns a massive ranch. The locals say they deserve access to a couple of lakes which are inside the ranch. Those are public property the lakes however cranky his lawyers said you cannot access those lakes through our property so this has been the courts now for close than a decade story popped up. Somebody tweeted at at me. Oh about a week ago. In the reporter from the daily beast tarpley vet has written extensively about it. So i thought it'd be a good time to just sort of breakdown. This story who. What is the dispute here. What are the implications for canadians. Far and wide when it comes to public land versus private ownership really a lot of layers to this and Because it's stan kroenke in the courts in saint louis folks are interested but it's It's dragging out in the courts which so often is the case. Kilcoyne conversation can be found at scoops. With danny mac dot com and it is presented every week by triad bank. The saint louis based bank. That was started here. In two thousand and five neighborhood friendly banking final on the web at triad banking dot com. If you're looking to do more business wide. I bank with a saint louis based bank. Who can help you get more business done. Also appliance discounters. Those four area locations. Best thing to do go online. V. appliance discounters dot com. Check all that great g. merchandise selected online. Have it delivered within days. Don't wait weeks or months ridiculous. The appliance discounters dot com also. Marie developed senior living. The campus is located in west. Saint louis county at the corner of clayton had wiedeman road. Rage shame needs for years live. There was on the board part of the ownership team. Take a virtual tour at marie. Davila dot com. Let's get kilcoyne conversation with the reporter. Who has written extensively about. What's going on with stan. Kroenke in canada tarpley vick from the daily beast. While i thought we begin with the douglas lake cattle company. Douglas lake ranch whatever title. They prefer. Charlie what is what is its primary purpose is is it there for people to read out and visit. I mean what's the primary purpose of the ranch. So the douglas lake cattle company. It's the largest operating cattle ranch in canada. it's this huge area in british columbia and It you know you can. You can camp. There you can buy private passes to go fishing there. You can stay there It's basically an operating cattle ranch that happens to be owned by stan cranky and it also fully surrounds chew lakes stony in many lake which are publicly owned so it has some private bodies of water on the property but it also has these to publicly owned lakes that you can access by way of this one road end one now. Do we know before Bought this property Were those lakes accessible. So what dispute now is accessed those legs which as you mentioned are public lakes. Do we know before stan kroenke came in where we were there issues with the lakes being accessible or resist a newer phenomenon. You know. i'm not sure that much about the history of these pads before synchrony Picture but. I know that. I am under the impression based on interviews that i've done that. These were publicly easy taxes by way of these trails but that once it started beginning slightly before two thousand thirteen when the dispute begins A lot of the time. The trail and road were blocked off by fences or locked gates and that sort of when the nikola Bali fish and game club enters the pictures like we. We need to be able to access these. These bodies of water in they started in twenty thirteen legal taking legal action against cranky and then the people running the douglas lake ranch. In by your reporting it wasn't until twenty eighteen. They got they got a ruling. The british columbia supreme court ruled in their favor to give them access so that that's a massively lionel. Things turned slowly in the world of justice. But they've been and other words the people fighting for access to legs. They've been at this for a while. They've been at this for a while in night. I you know this game fishing game club. It's just a local recreational nonprofit so they were fundraising with raffles and fundraising with picnics to find their legal fees so yeah this is a long battle on their end to be able to fission what should be public property or is public property not should be and And yeah so in two thousand eighteen a the british columbia supreme court ruled in their favor in said these two roads or this trail in this road rather Public citizens can can take them in go in access these lakes and then appeals In mid the case that you know the one of the one of the pieces of evidence the The club had offered in the trial. Was that the trail. Had these roots dating back to an indigenous village that had been in the area before In that it was this historic landmark and In the lawyers argued that there was insufficient evidence to indicate this had indigenous roots in that the the road itself didn't approach the natural boundary of the lake. So even though the road itself was public they were going to have to cross into private property in order to get to the lake from the road. and the appeals court seemed to find that argument compelling so twenty thirteen. The local fishing gaming club starts their legal action and twenty eighteen. Get a ruling in their favor. Then it gets appealed and just in recent weeks stan kroenke in his group of the ranch. They win the They win the appeal basically saying what that they can close off access. What's next in for this group. I'm fascinated by the fact this drooling. It is kind of a david and goliath. Stand croppies billionaire and these folks natalie. Today lose the appeal right. They've been told now that they have to pay croppies legal fees. Yes so it's to be clear. It's the legal the appeal only but it is like One of the director of the nikola fish and game club that i spoke to estimated that the legal fees were going to out to something like twenty five thousand thirty thousand canadian dollars And you know there are a nonprofit and this man is he owns Many many sports teams So there is a sort of David and goliath But you know that remains it remains to be seen. Because i believe they are considering a appealing the decision as well yoga's so they go to appeal. Which means the pregnant spend more money on their own legal fees. I'm surprised nobody philanthropic or that. Somebody hasn't taken up their cause for gotten behind them. It seemed like the locals are kind of fighting. This alone is weird. Amita thing that there isn't somebody bigger that wanted to get behind this caused. It does have implications for a lot of canadians right. This ability to access public nationally. It's part of sort of an international movement of That is called the right to roam basically do when these publicly owned. Piece of land or property are circumscribed by private property. What are the acts one of the rights to access that piece of land in especially in british columbia where there's a lot of these small Bodies water that are surrounded by private property this this case is kind of a landmark in determining will canadians be able to access those bodies water. Will they be able to hunt will to fish and at at the moment. The answer is no The the the judge the appeal justice. Who wrote the decision wrote that. The original author of the two thousand eighteen decision had added his voice to the chorus of people attacking the rights of private property owners. So basically crockett gets this win now. The next step is for local folks kind of fight back a little bit further in again. I'm just surprised at the the country's level that is getting a lot of play you guys wrote about it at the daily beast. I'm just wondering around. Canada in i wonder too is is there more outrage because crunchies american or does that not play into this. I think there's some there's some outrage at least from the i mean the people i spoke to off on the nikola valley fishing game Club side obviously have some vestige. They have their bias but They were definitely outraged that it was an american. Because you know. The the appeals court is literally saying canadians. Who pay canadian tax dollars cannot access this lake because it is surrounded by property that's owned by someone who's not does not who was american. You know so. That was certainly an element frustration to them. Do we think these trails throughout this whole legal process have they been sorta locked and closed up the entire time during appealed to open 'em up. I'm wondering what access they've had really what's been almost a decade. I'm not sure. But i don't think that they've had much access to the lakes at all again. Nobody's getting behind their 'cause this is just the They're doing raffle tickets to raise money to take on state property. Which just that's a battle financially. You're not gonna win. And so having indicated any bigger names or bigger movement behind them this is it just seems like a mom and pop operation right now but it seems to have a bigger reach and i'm surprised. More people are interested in their costs. Seen here their lawyer their lawyer to quote that was like you know the cortra- supposed to protect the rights of a public property and public citizens to access it and instead the courts have told nikola fishing game club that they're on their own our conversation here with tarpley is brought to you by appliance discounters and appliance discounters. They're well aware of all the cannot said. 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Have you heard anything from stank rockies other than i guess from the lawyers involved any of his. Pr peabody reached out to you guys. After the article in heard from crunchies personal wraps but i before the article ran. I spoke with a representative from the From the ranch in. They said that they had always known that the courts were going to decide Air on the right side and that they agreed with the court's decision in that They were happy with the outcome. You get the sense of the local gaming fishing. They're not they won't just walk away from this losing this battle and again having being handed the bill twenty five thirty thousand whatever. They're not walking away at this point. Oh they're definitely. I think not walking away i will so i'd ask them what they were going to do about. Being forced to pay cronk is legal fees. That were they going to fundraise for that in the director i spoke to Said you know we have no plans to fundraise for those legal expenses but we do plant fundraise for our appeal because we definitely think there's room here thrust make a case for Access to public land and this is all in british colombia. I think as you wrote. It's the size of this. Ranch is bigger than the greater vancouver area. We're where exactly does this area so it's in southern british columbia. It's in an area called the nikola bali The the closest town is town called merit. But yeah it's you know it's a giant piece of property. It's i think. I want to say the exact. Forget i'm the exact square footage Escapes me right at this moment. But it's very large mattress cooper size and so when will this go to the next step will be in the courtroom and this is probably something that's going to drag out for a couple more years. I mean it's been underway for so long so it will definitely be going on for. I am engine. It'll it moves slowly court smith solely in so it remains to be seen when they file their appeal if filed their appeal feel. I think an appeal is likely But it could definitely last quite a few more years. it is right to roll other other cases. Similar this going on throughout canada with this you mentioned right to roll may be explained that a little bit to listeners. On so i mean right to is is sort of describing. It's basically like access to these public lands in to my knowledge. This sort of v landmark case in sort of determining what it will have the large trickle down effects in terms of will canadians be able to access water pieces of property that are circumscribed by property owned private citizens. I would think this story to. Your editors the appeal was the appeal of the story is pretty compelling. isn't it is. It is kind of david and goliath that public private. It's american canadian. I would think that a lot of boxes. I would think in terms of reader interest. Definitely i mean might be is. I've just started a beekeeper called power trip which is You know about money. It's about labor it's about income inequality and the high concentration of wealth that we're seeing right now in the us. Globally cranky cranky is one of those individuals who has just so much money that he can shape laws he can. I mean if obviously the appeal court decision that that led to this so it's not entirely of him but you know he. He definitely is the goliath year. Well we appreciate you helping on the show explaining it. I know the second came out. Stephen on my twitter feed that got a lot of people responding and saying checkout what stands up to and they monitor his movement closely. Garretta's it's well documented. There's a big huge lawsuit with the single city and county regional sports authority challenging the nfl and ronnie on his exit from near show lawsuits cranky against the he's no stranger lawsuits. But this is fascinating for all of our not just football fans but hunting and fishing fans and our friends to the north so thanks so much for hopping on xtra having me and we appreciate tarpley being a part of the program. It sounds like there'll be a follow up here at some point. The folks in canada challenging stan kroenke just like the folks in saint louis. There was the famous case in texas with the The lake down there. That stan purchase so we will keep you up to date. Make sure you subscribed and kilcoyne conversation. Get all of our visits to deliver directly to you. They're all found. Scoops with danny mac dot com looking forward to upcoming visits as well bob costas on the show and the topic is the art of the interview. Everything's change in the world. Tv and radio but really when it comes down to it. People still enjoy good conversation. Nobody's been better at that over the years than bob costas. That's our topic with bob. And then just engage former to sports star at mizzou football and basketball had an eight year. Run in the nfl and now start coaching at the high school level. So just engaged. Bob costas among our visitors guests in the coming weeks. Here's to make sure you are subscribed at kilcoyne conversation at itunes and spotify. Thanks so much for today and we'll talk again soon you.