280: Andrea Rene: Assassin's Creed Vikings, Zelda and Mario VR, Bioware and Anthem, Control, Trover Saves the Universe, Journey to the Savage Planet, Yoshi's Crafted World, Dangerous Driving, Mechstermination Force
Under as boom as that base drops in which means, you know, it's time to begin in wherever you are whenever you are an however you happen to be listening. We're so glad you've chosen that union said D L C downloadable commentary for the week delivered the way we love it to be. And that is completely free things to our sponsors this week, Robin Hood and hellofresh. They're bringing the show to you. See, of course, the show all about games in their many forms games played on desktops, laptops, and consoles. Also games that involve dice luck and cardboard I'm your host Jeff Kenna spelled with two N's in one t-, and I'm joined as always by my friend slash co host slash nemesis. The guy who is always a showcase for the immortals, Mr. Christian Spicer. Hello christian. Hello. I was gonna at thought maybe you would still do final four something. So I was a little caught off guard. I was going to be like, you know, I would have liked. At all. But you know, wrestlemainia day resume Neha for me greater than sign. Final four. That's just messes me like wrestlemanias today as a recording tomorrow in this is out today as will recording Sunday. Yeah. We record on Sunday people probably listening to it on Monday. But yet wrestlemainia thirty five she'll be mortals assured finally older than I am. That is also not true. It's funny that it would not be older than you are. And then as years go by would get a new it's older than you. I start lying about my age wrestlemainia keeps getting older that says a lot. Hey, we got a lot of video game stuff to talk about this week. We have so many games to discuss there's big news. I mean, it has been just big Newsweek after big Newsweek, and this week is no exception. But the greatest news is that we have one of my favorite guests to do it with you know, the DLC always stands for your downloadable, NADA and your downloadable Christian. But this week I'm so excited because D L C stands for deciding between lots of content because in order to do that you need to know. What's good? And from what's good games, our friend? Andrea Rene is back with us injury. How are you doing AL? Let's good guys. Oh, you are just doing that intro was such gusto before it's like, you have an extra spike of energy today. Maybe I'm just I'm trying to salvage any energy. I can have for my my children. Are it's been an intense weekend. But I appreciate you saying that, hey, you're just back from world wind tour of the of the country. You went to to GV see you went to the Pax east. You've been playing games, you can do in panels. And we're so glad you rebel carve out time for us. But man what a coupla weeks, right? Yeah. It's been hectic, I'm glad to have a tiny little low hair before head back to LA for games beat some of that. Of course, you know, a ramping up towards e three two months away, which is wild to think about. Ansel our press conference this year. I don't know if you heard, but we're not we're not doing a big one this year. Brunette? Yeah. We're gonna be doing a series of Nintendo direct style events throughout the year, though, podcast like weekly. We were thinking with news trying something new. Oh, yeah. You know, I hear that weekly podcast thing is on the up and up tryin, hopefully catch on one of these days into it man, you say three and it just shiver runs down my spine because I it is going to be here so quickly, and I'm not I don't even have the bumper queued up. I couldn't even do the three bumper let alone the ready to go to meetings and see stuff. Before we even let's because we're on that topic. I know we have lots to talk about. But I'm just curious. What do you think about e three this year? Do you think it's going to feel a little less than with no Sony? I don't think that there is plenty of gaming content to go round. I'm really holding out hope that Google is going to swoop in with a really impressive stadia lineup and some partners and some thing to show because that technology obviously announced at GD just couple of weeks ago was really fascinating. But left us all with a bunch of questions. And there's clearly a big ping hole. Where PlayStation was now. I still think that PlayStations gonna do some announcements around GD C or sees me around e-3 some side play. Yeah. The second episode of state of play. But I just don't think obviously like on the show floor anywhere. But I think Eighthmen we're going to be great. We have a new console coming from XBox XBox maverick. Jerk talking about they're gonna come big this year. They're they're saying it's going to be one of the biggest years. So. Yeah. Yeah. I'm ready. I'm ready to I'm not ready. I am very much not ready. But I'm excited. Now, some time to get ready. Don't worry feels like very little. I'm barely. I'm just trying to get my taxes done at this point. It's not it's I'm the last minute. That's. That's yeah. Attacked right now. I was like I'm literally crying out the IRS. All right. Let's let's not talking about taxes. Let's get into the show and start the way we always do with story of the week story gets the story on the week story week story of the week is the part of the show where we make our case for the most important stories that happened in the world of games this week. You can always submit stories for our consideration by sending us an Email the deal see feedback at gmaiLcom or by visiting our sub read it that's five by five DLC dot ready dot com coup folks out in that suburb encourage you to give it a shot submit stories talk about what we're talking about or anything gaming related. They're Andrew you our guest. She get first pick of stories. What would you consider to be your story of the week? Oh man last week was such a big one. It's kind of hard to pick. So I'm gonna pick the one that I'm most excited about even though it's very much hearsay in speculation. And did the division to reveal the next assassin's creed. I'm excited about this to somehow when I wasn't looking assassin's creed became my favorite game franchise, like all of a sudden happy to hear that love us carried. I didn't used to love us essence creed. But post odyssey I'm like this. Now, I wanna hear every bit of news. I'm ready with the next one. I'm so excited. I loved Odyssey's so much, and yeah, there's some slew thing that was done inside division. Two people found hints an image. That was sort of plastered on one of the walls in division. Two showed someone holding. One of the apples of Eden from from the secrete franchise, and it said some sort of Norse mythology reference some sort of Viking reference. And now a cock, oh is reporting that they have sort of independent anonymous confirmation from two sources saying it's going to be Viking town. It's code-named kingdom of Nutley. And we're gonna get it in twenty twenty. They've already Ubisoft that is has already mentioned that will be no new assassin's creed in twenty nineteen. So that's not too much surprised, but twenty twenty will come and it will be set in the land of the Vikings. What do you think about this? Andrea I think this is such a perfect fit for the assassin's creed franchise for a variety of reasons. First off they've made a very big emphasis on aquatic game play and naval mechanics and ship sailing over the last few assassins creates and the. Vikings are obviously known for their ships. So that is clue number one that this is a good fit. The second thing is I really love the way that the engine using a sausage. Crete handles can slap game play with a blade weapons. I really particularly enjoy the ranged weapons more of the gun type weapons that we got a few of the assassins crates like syndicate, and if for example, and so I think Viking era weapons would be fantastic in the combat that is create. And then Lastly, I really love the way that they've woven a lot of mythology into the last two assassins creed is both odyssey and origins and brought in more of this mystical sense. Obviously these essence crude franchises had that reference to to gods in mythology throughout the duration of the entire franchise. They really put an episode in these last two games. And I think with the incredible amount of information. Interest in Norse mythology not only from the thorn movies from the moral universe. But now, of course, getting a renewed interest from God of war which came out last year. I think this is a perfect time to bring back the appreciation for north mythology will interesting that you bring God of war. Because last time you were on this show. We gushing about God of war. And it was an awesome episode where we went in detail about that game. We all loved it was our game of year here on deal. See do you? Do it mine at yes. And deservedly so in his winning numerous of them all over the place. I mean, I feel like watching corey's Instagram or Twitter feed is just like he's on tour of accepting awards right now like after mother accepting whereas and deservedly, so, but do you think that it may feel a little meat to do you think it will be in the shadow of that game as a concern of it? Not feeling as I mean, because there's no other game set in ancient Greece like odyssey was or in, you know, in the in the in in ancient Egypt like origin was I feel like? Where of early God of war set. That's funny. That's funny. Okay. To shay. But I don't feel like those were as sort of butted up against this game. But I take your point Christian. Take your. Said that because there are obviously several games set in Egypt Enin ingrates. But to Jeff's point, they didn't they didn't have the robust game play offering that we found in the assassin's creed franchise, or the as well, I would say those games felt like I was exploring a part of history time period a million a look and feel that I had never really gotten to explore before. And I don't know if it'll feel quite the mutt. The we the reason I'm bringing this up is from my perspective. I'm really hoping they lean into sort of a different style of Viking. I hope it's more Viking than it is sort of north mythology. Like, you said Andrea, I love that the mythology stuff sort of peaks in in the assassin's creed franchise, but very much is like second or third layer down. You know, it's like you have to really search it out in it's special when you find it in. It's not a world of mythical creature. It's a world where there are hidden mythical creatures, but mostly what you're doing is not mythical stuff. And I feel like that version of Viking history where it really feels like you're exploring not the myths, not the Nordic myths. But like the the real history of what the Vikings did. I think that would be cool. Absolutely. It's interesting because I recently took a trip to Copenhagen in Denmark with my family, and we went to a museum there and they had an exhibit on Vikings. Unlike the life, the kind of day in the life of during that time period in that era from artifacts that were found from utensils people use, and how people dress, etc, etc. I think there's a lot to explore there to your point. And I think Ubisoft has such a commitment to historical accuracy, and really the educational mother. They put into honestly, I thought was fan. Tastic, and I look forward to them doing that more and adding more modes like that in their future franchises because there I pee TNT as such incredible extensive work making sure that they're being true to some of these really important historical points that it's it's an exciting prospect. So I'm I all for asan's Crete Vikings or all Hala or whatever they fell hall a good title, actually. Yeah. Just the accents alone based on hell did the accents in origins and odyssey. Like the got actors who really nailed that just the accents freight for Viking game alone will be a delight just appeared elect Christian. What is your take on on Viking assassin's creed? Yeah. I like it. I think it fits for what the franchise is doing. And you know, it's easy to picture God of war as the Viking game. But there's also other takes on it like two examples. I'll give I think playing in that world and vastly different ways would be held blade which also. Does north mythology and does not feel like God of war in my opinion? But still hasn't really cool combat but uses other parts of that. And then I believe the banner saga both one two or three of those games. I know the first game also inspired by Norse mythology and kind of the the art work in that game and also very different than hell blade or God of war. So I think there's room for the assassin's creed if occasion of Norse mythology and climbing through ice sounds really cool exploring of a cold frost environment. Lot of picture like for pelts that you're upgrading and total building new outfits. Really awesome. I think really I think as Andrea said their hand to hand combat. I think there's only gotten better between origins and odyssey. And I'm sure we'll continue to interrupt that like dual axes. Just sounds incredible to me. And then I'm hoping that there some mix. Of like breaking through ice and sailing kind of something like the idea of your on treacherous footing as you're kind of crossing a frozen lake or something like that. I think could be really compelling to and kind of how they they establish the world in your traverse over it. I I think there's a lot to like there. Yeah. I'm on that page to I'm very excited about this. As many hours as I spent two on beautiful Grecian beaches and watching sunsets against dappling sunlight on on water through the palm trees like to go from that to now as you're describing these frozen tundra Zain, I peaks in ice lakes, rivers adjutant that will be such a cool place to take this. This franchise I'm excited about I mean, I would be excited. I think any there are people saying it might be Rome. There. I predicted that it was gonna be futile Japan. But this seems like a really really cool place to take it. So hopefully, this is true. It sounds like it's a pretty solid rumor. So we'll see. Hangers crossed. Yeah. Christmas by sir. What is your story of the week? My story of the week has to be that you're buying lab. Oh, VR like. You can't not buy now full. So Mario little vignettes or little small. Mario odyssey levels are going to be available playable in lab VR in all Zelda breath, the wild for you, sir to say that VR would get you back into no-man's sky phone. They added it and here breath of the wild game that you never quite connected with we both kind of praise what it was doing. But it didn't quite grab you in the same way that a lot of other people now you can play the whole game in VR. You have no excuses. Yes. It's guard board VR strapped to your head. But you have to see Mike excuses. That'll be playing no men sky VR this whole time. All I possibly play. Both. This is huge. It's so bizarre to me. It's pretty crazy is pretty so we got so backing up a little bit. If you are a frequent listener of the show, you may remember that. I poop shockingly, I think I pooh-poohed the idea of a a lab of yard because I was worried it sounded like a really kinda crappy version of VR got a lot of emails and tweets during the New York preview week when people Andhra did you or anybody on your team get a chance to try out the lab VR because they were giving demos to people. I think in New York no did not get a chance to try. But I have read several previews that all said yoyo. This isn't supposed to look this. Good. What's going on? Yeah. That's the everybody sent me emails in tweets about how like guess guess, you're wrong. Jeff everybody's saying. It's great much better than it should be for what it is. And nothing could make me happier. I mean, okay. I don't want to rain on the. Hype parade. I talked about this at length. I was I reported this news on kind of fun games daily last week. And I think the idea of short mini Lavaux experiences are really cool the do to build it. And customize it neat. I think when they announce something like a full VR support for a game as intent in open big at the legend of all the of the wild. I take pause because I played that game for several hours at a time, and you have to hold the car board. This isn't like a soft padded more headset. We're talking Lucar cardboard style VR Lavaux to your face. So you're literally holding it up to your face the entire time. And. I cannot wear your hands. You know, like don't even know how that works. Boggles my mind with the joy cons attached. So traditional style. But instead of holding out in front of your face like at a good distance where you're may be putting your elbows on table, or it's it's at a nice angle you have to hold it up to your face. So you're holding the lab with the little lenses on the inside like physically holding to your face. I completely agree with you. Andrea I feel like somebody at Nintendo got my letters. But completely misinterpreted. Like, yes, if hey if you're going to do this do it rinds. Why are you waiting wasting our time with lab? Oh, like put out the thing. It's because eighty bucks anyway, put real thing. Like put on a plastic comfortable thing with straps that. I can put my head. Let's do if we're gonna do it. Don't don't like do it this way. I don't understand. I'm so excited that they're so. There are going to be built in many games with lab Lovie are that a lot of people who have played them say, they're they're pretty fun and interesting and effective and create a really cool VR experience. And that's great. And then they also said that Mario galax excuse me. Mario odyssey on switch will support some brief mini games as well. Specifically set in a seaside in the luncheon kingdom areas Nintendo describes these levels bite-sized. So that's makes sense to me. And then like, oh and also all of wild. It's like, so they clearly put some work into this. Why not support that work with actual hardware? That would be that you would wanna play through all breath of the wild with. You are saying exactly how I feel with the enthusiasm that I have as well because I loved breath the wild. I love the Mario franchise. The. The idea of being able to play a Super Mario brothers game in VR, and it's so perfectly suited to VR Super Mario Odyssey's like business. So great. But then when they're like, but it's cardboard and you have to hold it. And then they have the voters the press photos of these kids using one hand hold the VR where phase in one hand, they're holding joy con. I'm like, that's the most impractical thing of ever heard of in my life VR's already difficult to do even if you have the most comfortable headset, and you have it perfectly adjusted the idea that you have to physically hold it to your face. And then and then use another hand to do the inputs, and you're gonna do this for more than ten minutes at a clip. It's like, oh, Nintendo. You're so close to getting it, right? I mean for my breath of the wild experience I felt like frame rate dips in hand-held mode. And so what is this thing? Like again, the LeBow experiences and heard her great I could see how those run smoothly. I'm not sure how breath of the wild en- hand-held mode runs in don't you? Need ninety frames per second to make minimum the minimum anybody does comfortably. Supposedly in VR is sixty frames per second. Oculus shoots for ninety for alternate. For maximum of comfort. This is gonna be locked thirty Syrah at half what anybody else's minimum in VR is. Plus the VR resolution is going to be seven twenty by six forty per. I so pretty low resolution at very low frame rate for that amount of time in that kinda world. I just I shudder at anybody who for whom this is their first VR experience. Again, I haven't tr-. Had it. Maybe there's some intendo magic. I'm not aware of clearly some people who have played the short experiences already are coming away. Speaking very, positively of it, and I'm happy to hear that. But I just have so many reservations in worries about this. Because I wanted to be the thing that sells people on more robust interesting VR in a wanted to be the thing that sells Nintendo on jumping into this because having played something like astronaut rescue mission. I go intendo should be making VR games. So I just I I'm rooting for it. And I don't want it to be half asked and lame. You know, are you going to buy it? I have to write. I hope I want I want to play. And I'm hoping you're the one that I have to. Over with you. Yeah. Not right. I got it not gonna pretend that I'm not curious, right? Definitely want to know like what's going to happen. And what I really wanna see what these Mario experiences are going to be like because I think that's really what they could have something obviously playing Zelda India. It would be fun. But I think you Jeff has probably the resin VR expert of the three of us can attest that the best VR experiences are those that are specifically designed for VR and not just like an add on mode for another game true. Although I mean, there's plenty of add on modes that have been pretty good to, you know, like the the Star Wars battlefront deal VR on mode is pretty great, you know, the ad on. I don't mean as like an additional experience. I mean a game that they just made in VR like, let's take like skyro- in VR, for example. Like, I think playing skyer him on a regular console or PC is a superior. Dear experience planet in VR. I would agree in the sense that they had to retrofit. And this is your point they had to retrofit everything to work inside the control scheme of VR, and it's not ideal. If they had Bill Gates rescue mission, right rights. It's not if it built scarring from the ground up to work in VR. I think it would be a completely different kind of thing. So you're right. But also, you know, resin evil seven grade and borderlands two is pretty great. Are you know, there's there's ways to do it. But I'm very curious. I think Christian I will have to say that I'm probably going by this. Yes to settle maturity. So goes eighty bucks, I guess and an afternoon of cardboard crafting I'll help you with the crafting if you for over the money enough. All right, mice story of the week is I think we have to talk about this expose really in Kentucky Jason schreier who I've had many many conversations with about being on the. Show and his schedule is very difficult in our schedules. Very it's it's been it's been an ongoing thing with love to have him on. But man, he is just knocking it out of the park right now over on Kentucky just a great reporting week after week. He didn't something again this week publish an article actually too big articles. He posed one in the New York Times. I think times. Yeah. The the the one I wanna talk about specifically as the taco article about anthem and really more about bio aware in general and the culture of buyer wear it is a very long deep, well, researched expose into how anthem came to be the four to five year development process that resulted in the game, we got and how that sort of indicative of a culture by aware that. Can kind of explain the mass effect dramas of the world and the anthems and how these sort of tumultuous road to release of these games, and a burnout culture inside the studio at self has led to a lot of people, you know, leaving and having negative experiences there. It's a very deep detailed article. I highly recommend if you're listening to this to check it out. It's a free chapter of blood, sweat and pixels to like his fucking excellent. And this is could have straight up in a chapter on that book. It's yes nominal. We're not going to be able to do the article Justice in summarizing it because it's full of really interesting details, but for my money the reason I'm bringing it up as a story of the week. First of all, I'm very excited to get Andrew his take on this. Andrew really was was at ground zero for a lot of anthem. You know, Andrea. Hosted the a play at e-3 a lot of which has class toast best yet, they they couldn't top. So they had to stop. I know. All right. So yeah. I mean, you interview the devs there were part of the big reveal of that game. And so I'm sure you have a and you're a big via wear fan from for many years. So I'm sure to get your take. But there are three big takeaways that I'll just sort of queue this up the discussion up for for me. The first is an credit where credit is due Christian. Because you have brought this up on number of times I've been skeptical. But it sounds like frostbite is a big big problem for all of EA. It's a very problematic engine across the board. Which is interesting. Secondly, this idea of you know, how developers work how human beings are kind of treated crap crackly at a lot of developers. And you know, I've been advocate for unionization. But it sounds like, you know, this is a very deep problem that Casey Hudson has come out and said Israel and wants to address that's another big point in the third point. For me is I think the biggest that I'd like to talk about and that is so much of what we saw. And I think a lot in the in video game than people are very cynical and skeptical, and I'm one that has often given companies the benefit of the doubt. But so much of what we see is smoking mirrors. And that really seems like the case with anthem when we saw this big trailer at the I e three that it was shown the teaser that were closed Microsoft press conference. That that was thrown together at the last minute it the team itself didn't know that the game was going to be like that until they saw that trailer. And then they set out to make a game that would be that trailer instead of having that trailer via snippet of game that they were already making. So I know that's a lot in those are wide ranging topics. But it is a big article Andhra. What is your reaction your top reaction to all of this? My high level reaction is it's clear from anthems launch that there were lots of problems along the path to development of this game as somebody who was very excited. In fact, anthem was my most anticipated game of this year. I was let down and I'm not gonna miss words about that. I think that there is an incredible potential for anthem to make a fantastic comeback. We've seen several games. Do it over the last couple of years ahead of very rougher. Rocky start or maybe they were a good game at launched the sale to find an audience within fun. When later I think that there's hope for anthem to turn it around long remained committed Diablo destiny destiny to war frame, which is kind of pointed as. This girl's online. There are number of very Embiid examples. Yes. So I think that there's definitely potential because I think what they're doing with that game particularly with the flight mechanics, and your javelin is such a unique experience and by aware has the potential to make something good. So I wanna say that obviously Jeff gave my disclosures already that I worked with E A M on anthem related things specifically at Ye play last year. But I mean, the article is troubling, you know, and the thing that struck me about it wasn't. It was really not that surprised because this is a story we hear time and time again throughout the world of video game development by aware is not the only one to suffer from these problems. These types of problems are super prevalent. I think last year Rockstars moment. In the spotlight in this negative way about what was happening at that. Stratego kind of got pushed onto the rug because everybody was fawning over how great red dead to was. And now because anthem launch with issues people are highlighting the problems within by where a little bit more than maybe another studio would. But these are commonplace problems in creative workspace is not just in video games really at large. And I'm not saying that makes it ok in fact, it makes it not. Okay. I feel like it's a systemic problem that we need to figure out how to fix. Yeah. I agree. And and while said Christian, what is your take on this? I mean, I want to reinforce what you said is read the article, I think in it is lengthy, but get it on a computer and ipad don't start it on your phone, unless you're only what you have to read it. I to me, I think the thing that I am most concerned with was there was bio wears initial response, and they kind of levied a response before they even really had time to read the article in the response, I felt another come out after while. I guess an internal memos maybe leaked it seems like they're taking it a little more seriously. But I felt as if their initial response seemed to deflect and and not want to focus on the issue and understand from a PR perspective, you kind of need to. Do that your part of a big publicly traded company? But also, I think there's a better way that it could have been handled than than the kind of the way by aware went about it. And and I think the bigger issue is you've got to really look a look at yourself in the mirror and take time to listen to your employees, and the people that you value. You know, there's all these anecdotes that large companies have in creative houses and stuff like that. And it's like, you know, we are no good than are least valuable member. Everyone like, we wouldn't exist wasn't for you. We need all be all Bill each other up, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right for some of our parts, and I think you need to actually live by that. And not just have it as like a catchphrase that you high five each other with or something and really take time to listen to people's concerns and don't let passion be an excuse for of crappy workplace or bad work environment or toxic work environment. Because a lot of times. Passion will serve as the blanket to cover things. Because people wanna make great games. They really do. You know, they wanna make cool stuff. They wanna make the next by aware hit. They're gonna put up with stuff to be a part of this business in this industry that they love, but that can't be an excuse to keep doing bad things because people are willing to suffer through it. Yeah. Part of my takeaway. And maybe this is a little silver lining. But part of my take away from this article is it's kind of incredible that anthem is as good as it is based on how that game came to be. It sounds like the game. We played was really made in less than a year at this game was in you know, of five to six year development cycle where almost nothing was done. They're all these big conversations in lots of stops and starts and lots of aborted ideas, and you know, idealization conceptualization and all stuff was happening. But no game. And then all of a sudden it there was a a fake trailer fake, but a. Idealized trailer that was revealed in Okinawa making this, and then they made that in like twelve to eighteen months. Really the both of it was made in like ten months, and that is insane. The the the game is even as good as it is as fun as it is that the the flying field. I mean, they stuck the flying in at the last minute. It is remarkable. And shows the talent of the people at that studio. So there is I think kind of a a positive way to take that. And it's a shame that the game had to be rushed like that. And crunched and people had to give up so much of their lives in be worked to the bone their stress levels peaking to the point where they had to break down and take time off and all that stuff because they were so stressed out. All of that is really unfortunate in wrong, in my opinion shouldn't happen. But. It's an amazing. It's amazing that the game is is actually kind of fun. And I think you're right. Andrea that there's a chance for that thing to evolve into something cool. I'd like to ask you guys as people who cover this stuff and have done for a long time. Do we all need to be more cynical? I hate cynicism. And I fight against it all the time. But in looking at this in the face looking at the facts of what's happening when I was bouncing off the walls after that e three web two or three years ago when they showed anthem in their flying. And it was all seamless we were going in the water and coming out of the water and flying the clothes Microsoft show. And I was just like balancing off the walls and excitement about this game. And it wasn't a game. It wasn't a game. They couldn't make that with the tools that they had they had to make a different thing that was close. But it wasn't the game. They even wanted to make. How do you? How do we handle the fact that that is how games are announced marketed where no one is being up front with the fact they haven't built it yet. Andrew, what do you think? I mean, I feel like I'm trying to the whole time. You were setting the question. I was trying to get a grasp on what the question was how in got involved with it. I think you know, taking trailers that are displayed as announcement trailers the grain of salt is always a good call. But it's tough because I constantly find myself in this battle between wanting to give into the hype. And then always wanted to be realistic. And for me as an online personality who commentators on several shows. It's a it's a damned if I do, Dan if I don't like if I get excited, I'm down the hype train, then I'm not doing my due-diligence. But then if I'm too cynical, and I'm too critical than I'm just raiding on everybody's parade. And if there's no happy medium between like I'm super excited for this own. Gee, it looks amazing. I don't care if it's all CGI looks cool. Like, I don't know. They're never going to be able to make this work, and blah, blah, blah. It's a it's a tough spot to be in. I think that. Video game development is difficult and projects change the creative scope of projects change over time. And I think the audience just needs to manage their expectations better. I think this is something that the video game industry uniquely struggles within the entertainment media landscape at large like we don't get to see rough cuts of the avengers movie in take work at it in pre elva when they like are still working on the graphics affects haven't like fully put all the green screen and blue screen effects in yet. Right like girl marketing, they're not marketing avengers in game by you know, showing you a sections of the of the script that haven't been filmed yet and going this is a movie we're gonna make in there. And then later on they found out we had to rewrite that we had to pull that part out, and we could make so that's different. I think about video games, obviously, clearly not apples to apples, right, movies and video games are not the same type of media. They're very different. Wide variety of reasons. So don't get your panties in a bunch. If you're listening to this guy understand that these comparisons are not the same. But like my point is that it's a problem unique to video games because for as long as I've been covering video gains, which has been over ten years now part of the ongoing coverage pre release has been dependent on press. People getting hands on experiences in seen large chunks of the game to get their opinion on it. And I think that's what's really troublesome is like if the creative team decides. Hey that thing we showed the press. We actually have decided isn't going to be the best for the final vision of the game. And maybe we need to rewrite it or change the graphics. But then they get crucified for making that change while you misled us, you misrepresented what it was. It's like a really tough spot for developers to be in. It's a tough sell for developers stuff spot for the audience. It's it's tough spot for those of us that try to cover video games. It's unfortunate place to be. I think the the easiest solution. Or not solution. But thing that can help is don't Priore games. Just don't Priore games that may be can take a little bit of the stress and pressure off of it. Like, he just don't buy a game based on not being out yet. That's a helpful. But Christian do you have any solutions here? Do you have any concerns? What your take? Yeah. I feel like it's we need to shift. How we talk about things. And and for me personally what I try to do with things like this get excited about the thing. Whatever it is will use anthem as an example. But explain what you're excited about and say that you're excited about that trailer. Or if you go hands on with a demo build of the game. I think people talking about the game could say that what they liked about the just gonna make up a thing, you know, ink pen to demo was this that and the other and let people know that you're not playing the game. What you liked about the demo? You were playing was this that and the other and how it did this that and the other in you hope that they expand on this or dial this back and be honest and kind of transparent about the things you enjoyed what you wanna see more of knowing that it isn't the full game. You didn't get to play the full game and kind of talking about what? That experience was 'cause I think even with you know, CG fully rendered trailers. I think it can still get excited about I'll use Batman Arkham origins where that trailer of between Batman and who has desk stroke. It was just a pre rendered fight scene. But it was incredible right in his in the snow, and there I think in a shipping container train yards like that. And it's kind of saying, okay. This is the tone of what they're doing this. What I like about this? I like this take on death stroke, and you can get excited about what you are being given. And then extrapolate that to what you hope that means the final product will be. And then you're we're fortunate. I think said of being at a disadvantage, I think we are. I it's an advantage situation where we're able to then revisit that. When the final thing comes out and say, oh, you know, I was blown away by this, and it really captured the tone of this, and they did this right or on man when I was really excited about anthem was big seamless world in while the flying in the car. Combat is some of the best third person flying combat of ever experienced to me failed to live up to the expectations. I had of a big open seamless world with my friends. So if you're looking for good air to ground combat is going to be the game for you. If you're looking for a big open sandbox play, you know, maybe wait for the division to. And I think it's how we frame the conversations in things that we're doing experiencing we can really help our audiences instead of just hyping them for the finished product hype them up for the thing that we if you honestly our hyped by it for the thing we saw experienced and then revisit that later. I think that's exactly right. And that's exactly what I try to do. I can give you a comp concrete example, actually from the way back machine. I remember going to an event when bioshock infinite was coming out, and I was able to play the first hour or two I think of bioshock infinite, and I remember famously saying I think on on we could we? Firm the firm. Yeah. I I remember saying the the first the first hour of bioshock infinite is my game of the year. And then the game came out and a lot of people were disappointed by it on the whole. And I even had some things to say that were less than stellar. And some people are like, oh, man. You must be eating your words now eating crow, you feel stupid for saying that and I remember thinking and still believe now. No, I stand by what I said like that. If the game had continued apace like what I saw I thought the for the opening sequence to buy shock infant is one of the finest sequences of gameplay, I've I've ever experienced. It is incredible. The way they bring you into that world where the interest concepts and mysteries and some of the stuff that I got to play was amazing. And it didn't sustain kind of. It fell apart a little bit as it went on. And couldn't sustain over. I think the game is still very good. I don't think it was bad. But it it wasn't the level of that intro sequence. And I think that's exactly to the point of what you're saying Christian is I try to be completely honest about what my reaction to what I am seeing or playing at that time. And and I think that it's perfectly perfectly viable to reassess as you said and make new make new claims make new express new feelings about the thing that when you plant on the whole or when you find out more, and you get more. It's like saying, you know, the first two episodes of a television series are incredible. But oh my gosh. The last six didn't really live up. I think that's perfectly legitimate. And it is is not about. About trying to hype audience up, so they'll get revved up to buy something. And then pull the wool out from under their them. It is it is being honest about your moment to moment reaction with what you've experienced thus far. Here's here's maybe a reframing of this question. An inter love to get your take on it, as you know, to some extent, we are. Part of consumerism, right? We're talking about products that no one needs in their life. We all love them. But we're hyping into that that machine right of buying things. And so let's say we're covering things kind of the way we talked about. And then so anthem comes out. And it's whatever you think anthem is, you know, anywhere from a one to attend doesn't matter. What you think of it? But it's out. Now, the division to is next month, and it so it's still only been in that hype, you know, preview train area. Like how how can we best convey that stuff to listeners and consumers are how can people, you know, make that decision. I think that's where it gets interesting were so many of these games now are often very enjoyable experiences. Being in on the ground floor kind of being part of that zeitgeist of leveling up and experiencing these worlds. And so when one thing is out and fully realized and the other thing is still only in that hands on impression, I'm not saying priori division but mistaken effect a current purchase. Based on a future. Promise does that make sense at all. Yes. Certainly doesn't obviously by video games is an expensive hobby, and you should be discerning with your money. And I have said time and time again that if your money is very strictly budgeted, you shouldn't be really buying any games that launch. You should be waiting until you here initial impressions until day. One patches are released because the games just roams. Listen, the games just don't release fully baked anymore. Like, it's very very rare that a game is going to be shipped on a disk that doesn't have a day one patch. This just not the world of game development that we live in and the sooner that you accept that realization move on the happier. You'll be like this. Fighting had been like how could they ship a game? That's broken ago wasn't broken. They shipped today when patch. That's why I got so bent out of shape about the anthem reviews in that early PC released period because bio were shipped a patch and the game as it was just doesn't exist anymore. And so I I got upset that there were these multitude of reviews reviewing a game in it's not finished state that consumers can't play. And it's. That was good for about six days. You correct for about six days that game was hot garbage fire. And listen like they still has a lot of issues. We don't need to go into that at this moment for sure, but it's it's a tough place to be in. And the thing I always come back to the thing. I I want people to just hold onto remember as that this is a leisure activity. Video is a passion as a hobby is something you do on the side, or maybe you fulltime 'cause you're streamer. But let's not forget like video games are just that. They're a game their form of entertainment, and how people are getting so so upset in so angry on the internet over video game purchases. I'm like if this is really making your life. Terrible. You should stop buying video games. Then maybe I don't know what I'll tell you. It is it's yeah. It's easier. Throw your hands up and go yell sometime. Shits? Broken or bad? And that's just the way it is. Or you just stop making the purchase. I don't know. Jeff. What do I do know? You're right. It is. It is often a disproportionate response. A and and it's hard to look in the face of that and understand it. And I I get it. I mean, these are if you are passionate about a thing that passion runs deepen in expresses itself, sometimes in I guess, ugly ways, it's unfortunate. And I think it's worthwhile to take a breath and understand, you know, these things aren't end of the world. But it is also a bummer that we've gotten to this place where these products are evolving, and it's hard to take a snapshot and understand. I mean, it's hard reading this article in back to this topic at hand reading this article. It's the tragic takeaway is that there was a line in the sand where they said this game has to come out. You know, like it feels like it's great that they're going to continue to work on it in Patchett and things will change. Change. But it shouldn't be out yet. You know, this should be a twenty nineteen fall game or twenty twenty game. You know, if if the reality of how it was twenty nineteen there for a minute. But I think he means later twenty nine teen. I think that also what I would love for e eight start considering the idea of early access like all seventy six could have been saved. If Bethesda had just released it in early access said, yo this game's going to be broken. Which technically did I have. We're gonna be fixing it. We're going to be adding things. But know that this isn't the full release same with anthem if they'd said, hey, like, they're still a lot of ideas, we got in the can we it's not done yet. We wanna get it out there. So we can workshop with community. I just were in an era of transparency and vulnerability, and that's people are yearning for in seeking from these companies and from people at large, and for some reason, these big companies still are resisting the idea of just being open and honest with their consumers, I think that's really the root of the problem is that consumers who are paying money for product wanted to be a good product. The developers were making the product wanted to be a good product. And when it's not when he did the consumer the developers unhappy, we just hope that they would be able to have an open line of dialogue and be able to communicate that with each other with us just not the way the business works, and that's the bummer part. So well said a beautiful will leave it there that is that is I think a profound thing and one I hope lands with the the higher ups, I fear that people won't recognize that truce. But yet have you know, have the developer literally onstage with you. And say, oh, you know, I've had this vision for five years like behind the scenes, you know, they called it anthem because they couldn't get the rights to the name. They really wanted. And then somebody had to sort of retrofit story for why it's called it's like just don't front. You know, don't pretend that that. Everything is rosy impeach Kane. And you're making the thing you've always wanted. If that's not the case, the consumer will go on that journey with you. If you're as you said, transparent, open, honest, and I think that is the new currency certainly the currency of the internet is is often Tissot honesty, and I I think we're in an honesty crisis in this country, and it hopefully it turns around. But well, very well said Andrea on. That's why I'm so glad that you were here to have have that conversation with us. Let us though because we have a lot of games to talk about that we've actually been playing. But I I wanna talk about our sponsor, Robin Hood, Robin Hood is an investing absolutes you buy and sell stocks ETF's options and cryptos all commission free. While other brokerages charge up to ten dollars for every trade. Robinhood doesn't charge any commission fees. So you can trade stocks and keep all of your profits. Plus, there's no account minimum deposit needed to get started. So you can start investing at any level. The simple intuitive design of robinhood makes investing easy for newcomers and experts alike, the easy to understand charts and market data and place a trade just four taps on your smartphone. You can also view stock collections such as the one hundred most popular with Robin Hood, you can learn how to invest in the market as you build your portfolio. Discover new stocks track your favorite companies and custom notifications for price movements. So you never miss the right moment to invest Robin Hood is giving list. Of DLC a free stock like apple Ford or sprint to help you build your portfolio. Sign up at DLC, podcast dot, Robin, Hood dot com. That's D L C, podcast dot, Robin, Hood dot com. Plan plan. Time to talk about the games that we are playing an Andrea my goodness you've been playing a lot you've been at GTC been at Pax east. So many great games to fill us in about one. I'd like to start with actually is the one I'm most curious about because I was not able to make mine meeting for this GD, and that is control. This is the new game from the people who've made some of my favorite games remedy. What did you think of your got hands on with it right of control? I did I got to play control in a behind closed. Joe's appointment and back in the game developers conference and got to have a nice lengthy chat with a couple members of the team from remedy entertainment as well the game from what I played looks really good. So far it controls pretty good. The the concept of the game. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around. But I feel like that's remedy in a nutshell. It's just the scifi elements of it are so weird a little wacky that. I'm just kinda like wait what's going on in this world? So let me pull up my notes here. Just to kind of refresh me from everything and I have pretty extensive notes. I'll just give you a second to do that and say that I when I saw this game, and he three not hands on we just we just saw a, you know, a sort of a preview of it with somebody else playing. I came away really worried about this game because I'm a huge fan of remedy. I love the max Payne series. I love the Alan wake series. I root for them. And boy the game did not give good first impression to me. So I'm hoping having played it you came away a little more positive. I definitely was in the same boat as you that my first impressions weren't great. But now, they are definitely better. So good news. So for people who aren't familiar with this game you play as protagonist thing to Jesse Faden? She had a troubled hired troubled childhood discovered. This supernatural force called the his- which is kinda like the the dark energy of the world through some kind of weird ritual Zik process. She becomes the new director. Of this agency called the bureau because the previous director was killed don't know how. And so you kind of everything takes place in I think it's called the old house. It's it's a really kind of weird setup where you know, you're playing as as this this female character who's in charge of this division. But she doesn't really know what's happening inside. And there's all this weird supernatural stuff going on the house, moves and changes as you walk around it. Right. Right. So imagine if like the inside of an office building. So it's not actually like style like a house style. More like a office complex really big office building you're kind of walking through these atrium areas. And then you'll be more tight spaces like for cubicles are. And then you also visit this thing called the astral plane, which is another dimension that you go in and out of. So that's a whole nother style. Stick area to do some game plan. But at a tart, it's a third person like mystery adventure game that has some combat in it as well. But combat really isn't the focus of the game though, there is quite a bit of combat from from what I've seen so far. And there's two ways that you can engage in combat. So you have a specialty gun that has its own skill tree. And then you have the ability to levitated items and throw them at enemies, which is pretty cool. This Hooper natural powers that you have are are pretty fun. You can be running around the world. And there's a lot of verticality going up and down stairs in then you can also fly for lack of a better word g essentially levitating. So for example, let's have my gun in my right hand. And I can use my left hand too levitated a desk, and I can throw the desk. At an enemy, and then shoot an enemy with my with my right hand, which is pretty cool. And then if I'm gonna take it one step further I can jump into the air and levitated in the air and then pull like an office chair up while I'm in the air, then like smash down to people below me. It's it's pretty fun. So the idea of it I'm still trying to wrap my head around in like where am I going? What am I doing? What's the point of it all, but I really like the style of the game. So that whole idea obviously, the name of the game is control. So there's a lot of themes about being in control in losing control, both physical and psychological control. And that's like the kind of overarching theme in both the game play and the story. And so you're going to be visiting this history of what the bureau is. And the strange forces that the bureau deals with and the deep mystery that kind of encourages speculation among the audience, but also weaves in this scientific desire to understand these of the. Notes that I wrote down while I was watching the presentation. In. So for my demo. I noticed that there are there's a skill tree system that there's a, you know, interesting to Roussel system and destruction is a big part of the game. So you'll be able to tear down a lot of items throughout the environment. It reminded me of you know, there was a period in the sort of early two thousands. When physics was just like, the new big thing in games, and it felt like every game you're able to level Tate things with your mind and throw them around and feel kinda like a throwback to that. To me, we having fun with just a pure mechanics of moving stuff around your mind shooting stuff. And it was that layer fun or did it feel a little fashioned. Now, I I was having fun with it. I did write my notes the movement and abilities feel very matrix esque, right? Your old news. But that's a good point is I kind of feels like, oh while I'm in this weird world where I can kind of bend gravity. But is interesting though, that gravity was the one thing that they wanted to kind of ground in this world because there's a lot of. Liberties with certain like rules of physics and things like that. But you know, gravity was under those rules that they wanted to kind of fall back on which is which is great. But at the same time, it's. I mean now that you mention it like, maybe it could definitely be construed as feeling a little dated. I will say the graphics felt a little bit more dated than I would appreciate for. That's coming out in twenty nineteen especially from remedy who feels like they've always pushed pushed the boundary on that. Yeah. And I wanna be clear that this is a pre release Bill that I played this is not final code. And as it is with all pre-release, like it's very possible that they're going to polish it up, and it's gonna look a lot shinier and more smartly once the final code is released, but. I to me the hook of this game isn't the graphics isn't the game play. It's the story. That's what remedies known for inside think that that's hopefully going to hold this game through and I'm gonna fully bit. I had no desire interest in playing this game before I went to this demo and now afterwards, I'm like, okay? I wanna see what's going on here treed. So let's control. And it is coming out. I think what pretty soon right under the summer. Yeah. I think August twenty seventh. I'd have to look that up for sure. But what else do you have so many games that you've been playing? What else would you like to talk about? Sure. So let's talk about money. A one of the games. I really loved that. A lot of people haven't heard about his trove say's the universe. I had the absolute pleasure of working with Justin roiling, the co-creator of Rick and Morty and co-founder of squash games at Packie's hosted a comedy in games writing panel with him on the main stage, which was super fun. We had a lot of great guests. And this isn't the first time I got to play trophies. I should like the fourth time. I got to play trophy universe. And what love about this game? Is that not only is it really fun in PS VR virtual reality. But it also is available as a standard PS four game as well. In the comedy in this game is just something that we just don't get enough of feel like really funny video games or kind of few and far between an I chuckle laugh out loud. Every time I play this game. Because I find something different in even if you're not a big fan of Rick and Morty you don't have to be to enjoy the humor in in the universe. I will say it's very foulmouthed. Lots of swearing's. Oh, certainly not one for the kids. I would say, but it doesn't have that kind of grotesque esque nece to humor the way like south park, the fractured. But holded, for example, that game was funny too. But like, I think that those guys tend to go in a more like bathroom humor way than Trump saves universe does. And so I I just really like the game you play as this chair or Pierre. I think he called. Where you're controlling this. Character named trove over who's been tasked with saving the universe from this big boss enemy of lore. Con. I think his name is revolt. Con something like that. It's just hilarious. You have these power babies that are going. I sockets in your gore on the world collect them and in order to level them up like eighty other. And it's just like it's a wacky. Is as Whakatane do it. I I really had a good time playing it. So in that game comes out so soon at the end of may. And so if you're looking for a nice like relatively short breath of fresh air that's gonna make you laugh, and it's going to be just a silly good time. Definitely check out some previews of jober saves universe. Awesome. Yeah. I mean that since humor so fun and clearly is a fan of VR because he's done several VR game now. So yeah, they have done a couple and note the team squash is is just so fun because they know that they're. Obviously working with Justin who's got locations to his TV show. They're like, it's just such a fun work environment. In a lotta times. They kinda do things on the fly really quickly because they built that game animation of that game to be relatively relatively quick on the turn. Sometimes you know, they talked to me about some stories about how Justin which is go into the vio booth in. He's like I got this idea for some lines and healed is like record him in. They'll be able to turn around some animation in like pump it into the game relatively quickly because of how simple they made the animation style in the game. And I'm like, that's so cool. That's awesome about I don't both. You N Christian have been playing Yoshi is crafted world on switch. What what is your take both of you on on that game? As just as delightful in wins ical as I would as I would want. I mean, I mean. Christian view. What do you wanna go first year? But wims goal is a great word delightful. Great word aboard a word. I might use also boring. No, those are the Antony 'em too. Delightful. Christian. What do you think? I love it. I think it is. It is it is magic. And it is stunningly beautiful the way that Nintendo has used kind of that tilt shift perspective to create this diorama world that looks like your, you know, your kids could make like cardboard, cutouts and pieces stuck together and birds coming in on strings or straws or pipe cleaners and it holds onto haven't finished the game. But what I've played the hours I put into it. I mean, it it hold onto this theme and doubles down on it and really cool ways underwater levels that aren't underwater in other only underwater in backdrop name only where it's like, oh now the cardboard is painted like a fish. But on water a cardboard to get ruined underwater. What what are you doing? And the little outfits you have that work as shields. I think they could be implemented in a greater way throughout the game. Also. But they're so well made and crafted I think the care put into how could we have actually built this world Nintendo has been doing this for a while now with Willie world and yarn Irby. Yeah. Yeah. Like exquisite art direction in these games. And what I really like about Yoshi crafted world is it's not difficult in the way Celeste or a new Super Mario brothers. You those games are or even odyssey has some fairly challenging later levels. I think in harder challenges, especially if you're going to complete the game. But it is just a I'm trying to it's kind of like going on Peter Pan at Disneyland or Disney World, right? Like. It's not going to blow your mind with a loop or anything like that or death defying spin. But it is so well put together the music the animation the care to detail to the world that you're in and everything that you interact with and it is unrelenting joy, in my opinion. And I like that it is probably one of the slowest. Mario games. I've played where I feel like they're really trying to have you see the world. And it's definitely not, you know, Mario speed where you're kind of running through and you can bounce off things and launched here. Triple jump up to this thing, and even some of the other Yoshi games and Kirby games where you can really string together and get moving pretty quickly. I think Kirby the last Kirby switch game was a little slower as well. But you're sitting you're walking through this environment. Trying to collect everything that you can aiming your eggs into the foreground. Background some of the levels in order to complete them. You kind of need to replay them to get a different perspective on them. And it's just a a wonderful world that I want to live in an experience. So it's not challenging my dexterity. It's not a trying on my brain to figure out how to solve this puzzle. But it is just such a wonderful experience that I love it. I've been playing it by myself. My kids got mad at me when we were playing we gotta stop. We gotta get ready to go to school, and then I played more during the day, and they came back, and they're like, hey, this isn't where we stopped busted. But I can't recommend it enough. I think it is it is pure joy put onto a little switch cart. Or I get download coats. So Andrew tell me why you're finding it to be a little boy is at that speed in lack of challenge, or I've pretty Christians perspective a lot. I think what he said about how they're intentionally slowing it down. So you can see the pain. Taking care. They put into the art direction is a very good point to bring up. But I think I've just been so trained to kind of speed run these worlds in like get through them and just keep going from that side scrolling life that I just I just don't stop the look stuff. And maybe that's on me as the player, an I absolutely echo everything. He said about the art direction on the art style. It's amazing and the cute factor of Yoshi being in the game is in being the lead. Character cannot be understated. I mean, all the sounds Yoshi makes the weight you jumps around. He's just he's just a cute little guy right in. So I like the idea of of Yoshi driven game. But for me, I'm not playing it with children. And so I'm looking after having the last platformer I played with Celeste. So like, I'm looking for something a little bit more intensive from mechanics, gameplay perspective. And they do have to difficulty modes, but I was on the more difficult of the two modes in it's still didn't feel difficult job. The the formula. I think is just something that's a little too samey same when it comes to these Nintendo platforms about like, you're gonna go through the world. And yet the collect these special colored coins in the to collect these special sunflowers, and there's going to be like a hidden tunnel over here in the United double jump to get to narrow here. It's like Nintendo's have been making this style of game for a very long time in they have down to polish perfection, four sure in the absolutely deserve credit for that. But I think the the one kind of byproduct is that is that there's not much a lot of innovation in the style of platform that they're doing particularly with this game. Now, maybe they have something up their sleeve for whatever's coming for Mario metro down the ramp, but Yoshi afterworld world is not bringing the innovation, but it is bringing the goods when it comes to the cute factor for shore. Okay. Let's let's talk about a couple more of your sort of GTC packs experiences. What are what are the the best couple of things that you saw there? Sure. So one of the games that knows that criminals, low try, but you can talk about or you can't talk about dangerous driving. We. Yeah, we can talk. So I got to play this game at Paxi for the first time. I'd heard about three fields and what they were working on. Of course is led by Funes, Barron. Alex ward previously criterion. And they left EA in kind of took all of their burnt-out franchise experience with them because they believe in the vision of what an arcade racer should look like and clearly was like, well, we're going to be making need for speed. And so they, you know, shook hands and left and went to start their own studio. And now we've got dangerous driving which is coming out this week, a believe April eleven of I think is the release date. Let me double check that. But so whenever I heard that it was. You know, Alex team the folks from criterion. And they're making essentially the spiritual successor to burn out. I was like I must play this game. It was burnt. It's full on Burnett. What I love is that it's a classic burn out. And I wanted to be clear because I kinda got into a heated Twitter debate with some people who are watching the game play previous that are now coming out from packed sees than being like it doesn't look like burnt out. I know this definitely looks like classic burnout. It's not burn up. Paradise minutes words, it's not that. But if you love burn up to burn three or if you like burnout revenge like me like this game is going to be right up. Your alley. I had a blast playing this game. And I think it's twenty six bucks. I think it's a book. Yeah. They previously made a just sort of burnout crash mode game changers. Right. And so now, this is this is like burn out with tracks and cars that you unlock and take downs and the stuff that I made it really is burn out to Christian you and I both got codes to play this game. What is your feelings on dangerous driving? I feel like Andrew, and I are on opposite sides of a mirror today. And I'm trying to find a way when we'll break through. I agree that it feels like doesn't mean to say, but burn out three to me is the burn out that all right? I'd run out three. Maybe revenge. Also, I events is not burnout revenge for for they don't keep track of your like take down like that. And I don't know. In certain nodes the road rage specifically about take downs. Yeah. Right. So there's has that kind of pedigree to it. So I think that aspect of the game if you're looking for that kind of style Joe or you want that. And again, I think he said we got coach for this. It it feels like a game that didn't have either enough time or budget behind it. I think unfortunately, where I think if I had played this as the hands on demo somewhere keep an eye on this game having played a review, you know. I think essentially final version of the game. It feels like the the font is little things in the kind of just don't coalesce together to the font used. Yeah. Feels like a free font. Like HD font. Like, an and I think that is a minor example. But I think it's bigger to the crashes don't feel impactful enough like the car kind of crumples in turns on its side doesn't explode, and you know, the way burn out got to with these big, especially at the time those things were jaw drop IRS. Right. Like on XBox three sixty. I think it was it would take if you had your webcam it would take a picture of your face reacting to it because they. Like all know, and here it just kind of felt like the the sound wasn't big enough. The crash wasn't big enough. When the game is paused. It's an unreal engine game. I think it looks beautiful but in motion it feels flat the controls feel. Not doesn't quite it's not. I don't want dapper looking for Forza. But it's kind of like, you're turning you're not turning or in slide against a wall for a long time little things like if I guess a real road would have drift drift you can drift. I think I listened to you describe all these things I'm like, yeah. This is an arcade racing game. It's not intended to be simulation. As intended to be this over the top on Bassett thing. Top. I think I just went in with my expectations set in the right place. Like, this is going to be like an arcade style racing game. This isn't for two horizon. And I don't know I just walked away feeling good. I had a blast. Well, that's great. I think that I have often said over and over and over the years how much I love burn out as a franchise. I'm not a racing guy. Like Chris Christie real racing game. Got I'm not a racing game. What he's getting so snobby. I'm a burnout guy. Well, don't get too crazy vendor. I'm about to agree with them a little bit. I'm a burnout guy. And so I love that burn out that somebody's making basically burnout game. But this feels like a cover band, it feels like a cover band for burnout? And there's part of me. That's like, yeah. Nobody's making burnout right now. So these guys are making burn out. That's great. But also, I feel like well, but burnout paradise is backwards compatible on my XBox. I just play that. If I want to just redo burn out. I feel like I wish they had gone. Here's some ideas that we weren't able to do in out. Here's the next next place that burnout can go or there's something fresh to do here that is not just a cover band of burn out. And like, I said, I love burnout. And I wish that there were new Bernau games being made. And this kind of is a Newburn game. But it doesn't feel like it's. The next step is feels like, hey, remember burnout wasn't that great wouldn't be great at somebody made that again. So you don't need to make it again. I don't know. I just felt it doesn't feel fully bakes. You know? I think it's important to remind people listening about who three fields and like how small they are. Right. Rasa. My check they were literally a seven person studio, and they are completely independent, and so they have incredibly small team, and they even say, you know, openly on like their about us section on the website that the games are stepping stone to the future. We're not there yet. But every game we make adds more and more features. And so I think it's like to take with a grain of salt. Like, you're not gonna get this crazy game with all of these physics and visual fidelity. And in these experts the things that, you know, gamers have come to expect maybe from an arcade racing game. Because this is more of an indie style game. It's meant to be meant to be small from. Mall team. And that's why they priced it. You know appropriately. I think I think they had come out and said that this was a fifty nine ninety nine gang. They would get crucified, and so they're like no this isn't a full game. Like, it's meant to be a short experience. So and like Inverness I haven't played with the same code that you played with. I don't know if the Coby played with the same. Maybe when I finally get the the final code. I'll come back and be like, well, maybe I'm a little more disappointed. But I don't know, man. I'm I'm having a I'm having a tough time here, and you guys rag on it will. No, I think you'd agree points. There's no ex- up. Sorry. Go ahead. She she's making a great. It is the counterpoint is it's in the marketplace with all those other things, but you're right. It is at a cheaper price point. I'm rooting for those guys. I want them to be able to expand in really take on the Bahamas. Take, you know, stand shoulder shoulder with the next need for speed or whatever game is there competition. I would love for them to make a full-on. Feature parody kind of AAA racer and this is a little bit step back. But it is priced appropriately as you said in their small team. So I'm rooting for them. It just feels like if you go to a second hand store and get burnout paradise Franks box sixty and put it in your Xbox One and it downloads the patch for free and you get to play that game with updated resolution, it's hard to recommend this over that. They also released a remastered burnout paradise. Also, you could buy that. Yes. And so I. I played it as various types of cars a sedan a sports car or like a high end car. They felt almost exactly the same sense of speed was felt very similar the drifting felt very similar. The crashes weren't any more elaborate, and I think their heart is a hundred percent in the right place. And I want them to keep making games. I don't think. The microchips with this game are about critiques of the the people or the team or the passion behind it or the idea behind it. But I feel like saying that oh because this is a small team we need to. Judge differently. I think is is a discredit to what we're looking at. I'm not reviewing can one person make something that's pretty good like. Plate of this game. It is not worth. I think from my perspective, and they have four different types of cars. There's four different levels of of cars, and then within each of those four archetypes variety of different types of vehicles in the types of cars are tuned specifically for different modes. So there's a special class of car. That's specifically for road rage. Take down that has a little bit. Heavier chassis was staff or damage than they have ones that are designed for racing that are have higher speeds of acceleration and can go faster, but they were stand up less damage. You know, your your typical racing stuff. I think when I look at this game. And I've I've played it hearkens back to my countless hours playing a one of my favorite arcade racing games of all time crews in USA. In thinking I loved playing that game to see how fast I could facet could go without crashing. But I didn't care what kind of tires. I had what kind of torque they have what kind of, you know, body the car had if it went faster or slower 'cause I it wasn't for me. It was never about that. And that's what's been so tough for me to get into modern racing gains. Because it's all about the gearhead aspect of building your vehicle like from the nuts and bolts up in. I don't want any of that. I wanna put a fancy racing stripe on my car. I wanna pick the pink color, and that's it. That's all when it comes to thinking the stats on a car. So I guess for my perspective on like, I don't I don't care that that they'll feel the same. But like, I don't know I'm on that page of wanting a, you know, why should I ever not beholding down the gas again? That's how I play raising it. So I'm a bad judge of that as well. But. Jeff that's the game. Like, this is that you could to endlessly boost over and over again, and it's not meant to be stimulation at all. And that's what I think is fun about it. I've been dying for a game like this. I wanna be able to crash into stuff without having having it ruined. My whole racing experience. No I had like three crashes in a race. And I still finished. I. Good. Okay. Good. That is dangerous driving. And it is it is out this week. I wanna talk about a game that I was actually informed of last week. I didn't even I was it's not on my radar. But boy it got it took into me this week last week. He was on. He was he told me about risk of rain too. Which is just tearing it up over on steam with great reviews and much more many more downloads than the risk of rain team thought, I played the first risk of rain a fair amount, which was a to decide scrolling rogue like shooter, it's fun. But man risk of rain to is is just a quantum leap say that quantum is a very small thing is a it was a huge leap another quantum leap, a huge leap in quality. In ambition in execution. I'm digging it man, it's only an early access now. There's a lot more. Intent coming and I'm excited to see where it goes. But very happy that I purchased in on the on the on the early access. So what it is is a true rogue like every time you boot up the game you're starting fresh from from ground zero. Although you can unlock things that let you start with new characters and stuff for subsequent runs, but you start in these environments. It's a full third person. Three d action game with the ranged combat a shooter, and you tell port in with you and three of your compatriots full coop for up to four people, and you start blasting everything in sight everything in sight you start blasting. And then there is a meter at the top. That is informing you that the game is slowly getting more difficult. So you start with easy and just a pure time. It is a pure how long can you survive as the game gets more difficult, and you're searching through these levels for. Teleport her that will get you to the next level. But you soon I mean, if you can stay alive long enough, you will get to the last level that they've made so far and then you'll take teleport or that a loop. You back to the first level and keep you'll keep going as long as you can survive and the the meter at the top will tell you move from easy to medium to hard to insane to there's ridiculous descriptions of how difficult to get all the way up to just it says, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha infinitely because of how insane the heart. It is. And you're trying to survive, and you get a power ups, and you're buying you get money every time you kill something. They spit out money. You can use that money to purchase a things at certain kiosks that are littered around the environment. It's all random procedural generated and the enemies get crazier and crazier and crazier and the items that you get your power ups, your power gets more and more stable to handle the crazy as it ramps up. So that's that's a very basic player a pure robe-like. But the joy is in collecting all of these wacky power ups that do that make you feel oh p all the time and the brilliant part of this game. The thing that I find extremely satisfying is that every single power that you get and you get a lot of them, and they all stack there's nothing that getting one thing makes you get rid of another thing, they all just just continued a rack up on the top line of your screen. It just shows you the twenty thirty forty power ups that you get if you can stay alive long enough and every single one of them has a visual representation on your character. It is so satisfying to see you all of a sudden have a bandolier on your character or have something hanging from your belt or a new headdress or some weird thing on your arm or one of your blitz. Turns into a grenade explodes or something. Shooting enemy killing them makes them catch fire and explode in that carries to all the enemies around it all of it visually represented all of super satisfying the level of chaos and insanity just seems to have no bounds. And I find the very very fun. It's it's a great game to jump into with friends. I think all of the praise that risk of rain to is getting is well deserved. And I'm super excited to see where this team goes now that they are selling way more copies. I guess it sold five hundred thousand copies in its first week, which is far beyond what they expected, and I'm hoping they channel that into continuing to update this game in in polish it for a full release with lots more content because it's a blast. I'm really enjoying risk of rain too. All right. Well, that's that's what we've been planning ender. Is there anything else? You wanna throw at the end here. I you have so many things to that you've been playing or any other parting experiences from GTC patsies. That you wanted to not forget yes quickly. I'm gonna try to go over at assassins possible journey to the savage planet. And the reason I wanna talk about this is because not a lot of people have heard about this game played it have either of you seen it or heard about it. I fell deeply madly in love with at GD. See yes goods, you did get to see it. This is Alex Hutchinson's game. He's co making. And I always forget his partner's name whenever I bring it up. But it's typhoon studios is the name of the development team that is working on it. And I know Alex because I got to work with him several times during his tenure at Ubisoft. He was the game director for assessment creed three, and he also lead far cry four he has worked on games spore and splinter cell. So he has a long history as the rest of his team in the video game space, but they really wanted to do something different in the notes that I have from his his demonstration were optimistic upbeat positive exploration focused. It's an earnest comedy. That's an exploration action adventure where you play a human with an AI assistant in it's designed to be short. It's only about ten to fifteen hours of exploration kind of Pera Tif he called it a not a full price game. And what I love the most about is that they just decided to make it a bespoke game. So it is exploration focus, but this isn't Noman sky where there is endless amounts of procedural generation everything in the world is painstakingly place there. I have a quote from Alexander. If you're going to spend time climbing amount into turnover a rock, you want something that was intentionally put there. Agree percent. So I just like what I loved about. It is that it really had kind of cartoon vibe from the rare in retro games of old and felt whimsical in that way for sure and the comedy in. It was very understated, but very on the nose and certain aspects so lots of laugh out loud moments during our demo, and it just looks for fun. And we just don't get enough games at our Optimus UPI positive. You know? I'm looking to see more this sadly, not coming for for little while they said early twenty twenty is what they're targeting, but it looked so fun in came out. Just like so happy for those guys like they all quit, very high paying jobs making you know, the battlefields in army of twos, and they were all making top tier games. All these like, let's go and make something that's a little closer to our heart. And not you know, it just feels a more earnest, and as you said upbeat and positive kudos to that impulse. And yeah, I came away just in love with sentiment of those guys. And the the game itself looks like something I'm really going to enjoy you know, goofy stuff but pure exploration in in a really interesting looking world. So yeah, totally agree. Very much worth mentioning. Christian. You also had a game that you wanted to bring up before we move on. He I wanted to talk some mex- termination force, which is the new game from hung on of ruin his name. I apologize Bertil Hobart he made gunman Clive, which if you wanna get your way back machine, I talked about gunmen Clive to on episode sixty one over four years ago. I was singing its praises then I was given a code for this game. I should say that I love this game with my whole heart in nice to let people know third if not on the radar or anything, you know, the types of games, I like a platform. Irs celeste. I've getting into retro gaming again in a big way. And this feels like gunman. Clive was kind of a side scroll or shoot constantly shooting smaller games month radius, really. They were they were cheap. But really well done and really fun experiences and Mexico nape. Mac Sturm nation force is like if contra maybe three maybe super contra was just a boss. Rush game. So different than Cup head which also added some side scrolling parts to that game. But also is very much focused on being a boss. Rush game. Mex- termination force is kind of that super contra contra two contra three approach to it where you're constantly shooting in blasting up against this huge boss and trying to whittle it down as it evolves. Through kind of each stage of combat you'll shoot the armor off the leg later. You get Gatling gloves that help you climb that are magnetic. So you shoot the armor off the leg you climb inside. This is huge mech robots body that the graphic style is it's political three D. But it's very cute. It's. Very wims Ecole in its approach to it. It's not trying to live in realism of like, these huge mex- smashing our city. It's very kind of tongue in cheek and fun and bright colors in. So you one is like it looks like a cowboy it has cowboy boots and Spurs and his very lanky and kind of almost marionette ask dancing in the middle of the city in you'll shoot the armor off its leg. Scamper inside than has defense hurts inside the take down or kind of dodge the bullet, how that's coming at you as you're climbing up this thing to take down the next week point to climb up in you always need to defeat the the red orbs, you know, the weak spots. Very clearly marked. It's not trying to hide the ball. What you're trying to do per se or when you get there with your huge wrench. You have to get close enough to a melee combat. The take these things down in each time. You kind of get through various parts of the bosses how you have to the strategy changes. It will start floating. The LEGO away will transform into this other type. Thing boss that starts off looking like a huge mechanical snail. And then by the end of it. I think it's like three pieces of metal floating in in the sky that are circling around each other that you need to stay magnetized to as you jump from one to the other to kind of get to the weak point. And what I love about it so much is that it is the type of game that unlike for me and Cup head where sometimes I felt like I never had a chance like I needed to literally sit down and just memorize this pattern. Otherwise, I'm never going to get through it the bosses that I've come up against in which the game the mex- that I fight and mix termination force. I feel like I have a chance my first try. I almost never get through them on my first try, but there's that feeling of oh, I got this bolts going to get here. I can climb this, and I don't need to just sit and memorize the attack pattern for how to progress than the other thing. I really like about this difficult style. Contrast game is that the money you collect as you fight? Boss's even when you fail. It keeps adding up so you're able to take that money and go back to the shop and buy heart or new weapons. And so it's the opposite of Lucca of blood borne you die. You lose everything here. It's like you die. But you still got all that money. You got. So maybe go by a couple of heart containers for this. You know, a one time use heart container to use for this boss because it's handed you you're a couple of times in a row now in type of game that I don't realize I'm gripping my switch to hard until I've been playing for an hour that I put it down. I'm like, what am I Hans hurt like that? Good. Like, I'm squeezing the console so hard in my hand as I'm focused like I can do it. If that I'm gonna I'm gonna yes. And then I put the switch down in your hands or still stuck in that position. It's awesome. If you like games like contra, I think Cup head of kind of scratches that it for people as well. It is a charming difficult. You know, contr alike bullet. Hell boss rush game. That is just absolutely magical. I I really really like it that is a mix termination force and you playing on switch. Yeah. Buddy. All alright. It's time to think our other sponsor that his hellofresh. Oh my gosh. I been living. Hellofresh. The wife in I decided to get the hellofresh family pack was wo- voodoo. We have family for four people. My two of my people of my four people are very small people in barely human food. They do human food, but just not very big portions, but it has been such a delight with hellofresh to get the family pack. Let me tell you about Hala fresh. I is a meal kit delivery service shops plans and deliver step by step recipes, premeasured ingredients, you can just cook eat enjoy enjoy. We have I tell you. I love being able to cook for my family. I love not having to shop or decide on what we're going to eat. But man, these family meals have been so good, and there's so much food. I cannot believe it. We've had I had leftovers. I brought leftovers to to work. The next day was amazing. We had been bap which had been about. But I love him about. I've never made it myself. Oh, it's delicious. Yeah. The best. I've never made it myself though. And I could because of hellofresh I made my own bap. It was even better the next day. We also had something called amazing a chicken, which was truly amazing. A believe it finished so cool as they come in prepackaged, pre portioned a little paper bags so all you have to do when you get the box pull out the paper bag put it in the fridge. Nothing else. So easy. So cool. You spend less time planning your meals, you spend no time grocery shopping for those meals because it all comes to your house. You get that time back to do more of what you wanna do. And you you have options there are these three plans to choose from classic veggie and family like I said, we did the family one, but you can switch between them when your tastes change. Because maybe we're not gonna hate for people's worth food every week. But you have the veggie option, which is awesome. And these don't take a million years to make. These these thirty minute max recipes call for less than two pots and pans. So you don't have to spend a lot of time cleaning up either. You get seasonal recipes. You get you know, stuff that they have put together it has variety to my menu my life. I love it. I love it. And I want you to love it. So check this out. You can get eighty dollars off your first month of hellofresh by going to hellofresh dot com slash DLC eighty and then you enter promo code DLC eighty remember that because it's eighty dollars off your first month. It's like receiving eight meals for free. So again, twenty dollars off your first four boxes. Go to hellofresh dot com slash DLC. Eighty and enter D L C eighty at checkout. Very cool stuff. I wanna do a quick VR segment because Andrea I know that GD you've got a chance to try out some Oculus quest and some of the upcoming games of that are coming out to Oculus. So what was your impression of Oculus quest? It was pretty life changing. I'm not gonna lie. I have been very hesitant in my VR game plane because of all the setup we finally decided to dedicate a PS four pro for our PS VR here at the Drake household, which was certainly a step in the right direction. So that we're not like moving the cables around all the time. I mean because in this busy day Naeem one minor inconvenience means I just don't play VR. What I was really impressed by with the Oculus quest, which of courses wireless VR was just how good it felt because for the longest time. The rift headset was incredibly uncomfortable on my face because I have a very tiny head. And so I really have to clamp the headset down pretty aggressively in order to make sure it sits properly on the bridge my nose. So it's not fuzzy inside the headset. And so it was very uncomfortable for me to wear for more than twenty minutes or so, and I didn't feel that with the quest which is nice. They had this new knob in the back that just like you turn it in like clicks automatically adjusts. Everything there's not all these individuals straps. And I was like, okay. It's nine s s has the clamp on the back and the quest. The standalone quest has the to velcro straps on the side. Okay. So I played both of them. So the s knob amazing what are about playing. I played beat sabre specifically in the quest. And that is a very motion intensive game. Some VR games. You just sit in you. Hold your controller you played your mouse, and keyboard or whatever, right. But like this was amazing because I had the the little are they what's the name of the Oculus controllers again, touch the touch controllers in my hands. And I'm just like, you know slash these knows left. And right. I'm playing the song played with Katie as Popstars and under like getting into it. And it was so much fun to be able to move around and not feel the tug of the cable. Tangled all the time my meeting, Andrea. I literally had to apologize for the amount of sweat that. I was letting out. I'm really sorry. I only know one way to play this game. And it's a one hundred percent. So I'm sorry. I I don't know. I've I'm sweating everywhere. I you need a cleaning crew in here. Yeah. Not having Abels is a game changer specifically for that game. Yeah. So it was super fun. I love that. There are launching with a pretty comprehensive library and the price point. I think is a little bit doable. Now. I mean, I know it's still three ninety nine which is still a lot of money. But you don't have to have a PC now. And it's not like PS VR where you have to have a PlayStation like, it's just all right there in the headset and audio comes from inside the band, which is really need. The one thing I forgot to mention when I brought this up on the show after JD D C is how remarkable it is to hear audio but have no thing in your ear or covering your ear. Really wild. It's it's an amazing thing to have clear, crisp stereo audio surround a positional audio, but might years are completely open to the air, which is just a Wild Thing. Yeah. It was super impressive. And I wasn't a believer in the rift before. But man, Oculus quest has made me a believer. So I'm definitely excited to spend some more time in virtual reality because of the quest. And then conversely, the time I spent in the rift s I was not prepared for how beautiful storm land looked. So the chance of ice storm land. Yeah. That's the new insomniac VR game where you plays a robot. Yeah. I was very impressed with it. Also. I think I mean, I'm sure you've talked about it already. But the one thing I want to mention is I have never seen a virtual reality games graphics. Look this good. 'cause there's always something inherently a little off about VR graphics that just you know, I'm just so used to seeing a lot of things either intended p or for katie's days, and I'm really impressed with what insomniac has been able to achieve with the rift s obviously, you know, they've put several VR titles out. So they're very comfortable with working in the space and definitely looking forward to seeing more from this game. I mean, the the moment where you like step off of a cliff and put your arms out and fly forward. Among the clouds is like pulling off your own arm and replacing it with a new arm is pretty RAD. Yeah. And just looking down at yourself and seeing a robot body in being able to look through your arm and hold it up. It's yeah. I'm very very. Cited for storm land. And it's going to be like a full big awesome adventure game. It's looks great. Speaking of full big awesome adventure games. I finally got a chance to go back and revisit borderlands to VR since they added support for the aim controller end, ladies and gentlemen. It is a game changer. It is the only way to play I hope that Sony realizes what asset the aim controller is to their VR. It sets it apart from Oculus from vibe from any of the other players in the space because I think the motion controllers the move controllers that use are clearly the least, you know, the least good solution. They were retrofit from old tech and just not ideal. But man, the aim controller is better than a lot of there's not an equivalent available on those other PC platforms, and I hope Sony doubles down on this because a game like borderlands two. I know this is gonna have to take with a grain of salt coming from me a person who loves VR. But I think this is the best way to play borderlands. I'm using a I'm holding a gun controller in my hand and running through a fully three d immersive environment, turning and shooting things picking awesome weapons holding them up looking at that weapon super close in my hand inspecting it because each weapon is different. And then it is awesome. It's awesome. Man. I am I wanna play through all of borderlands two again with this aim controller because it's so much fun to just run at a guy shoot my shotgun in his face the controls map really really well to the aim controller. It's it's a game changer. It is fan tastic. So there you go that's going to do it for this episode. We do have our parting gifts coming up. So stay tuned for that. But Andrea Rene it is always a delight to talk to you. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you for having me. I didn't realize it had been so long since we had done this. So thanks to the invited. So good to talk to you as always absolutely and tell people where they can keep up with you and your myriad activities online. Well, you can find me at what's good games dot com. You can download the what's games podcasts. Wherever you listen to deal. See you can also check us out at you've dot com. What's he gains? And then I also hosts a couple times a week with the fine folks over at kind of funny games. So we can watch us live. I'm generally, they're on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Twitch dot TV slash kinda games at ten AM civic time or you can also find them on podcast arisen YouTube as well. And you can find me and all the things I'm up to at Andrea Rene on Twitter, very cool Christian Spicer. How about you? What do you got going on this week Twitter's the best way to keep in touch? At Spicer say I stream this show live on my twitches, twitch dot TV slash Christian. Spicer. But we haven't the past few weeks or this week. But I think we're gonna start again in I two pm Sundays, right? New normal. The new is it it's we're in a game of thrones world, we gotta make way for game of thrones. Yeah. Already winter has come and it's DLC's recording time. So Sundays at two pm. There was a few. There will be a few caveats here and there because of prior commitments that I have but Sundays two pm. I will do my best to stream the show live on my twitch Jeff about you. Well, you can always follow me on Twitter. I'm at Jeff cannata, which is two in one t and I do a another podcast all about movies and TV shows called the slash film cast, which you can find it slash foam, cast dot com. This week. We're gonna be talking about shit Zam. She's a him which is really good really fun. And yeah, you can find that wherever we podcast as well. Oh, also, I should mention because it has become public. And it was a big announcement. And I'm kind of proud of it. I am going to be a voice in a VR game. The upcoming vacation simulator from lands. Thank you. I'm so excited. I'm so Erica. She is the other voice, and sort of the two big leads that you go through the whole game with it was like dream, come true. For me. I'm excited I really loved a job simulator, which was the first VR game. Now, this is the sequel. So if you wanna hear me as a robe it get that game. And I think you got a job to help me go on vacation. That's right. That's right. So okay. That's it. Also, you can always Email us at deal feedback at g mail dot com. But let's wrap the show up. Now our parting gifts. Andrea rene. Do you have a suggestion to help people get through their week? I have been obsessed with the new season of queer eye on net. Flicks. I don't know if you've talked about this or seen it, please. Tell me you've seen some queer eye. This is the second season of the new reboot. Right. The third season. Actually, I watched some of the first season. I enjoyed what I saw. But I didn't stick with it. Everything everybody. I've heard talk about this says that you will just ball your eyes out. That's not true. I haven't had to cry. I have teared up a couple times when it's all happy tears. Let me be clear unreasonable. I want to suggest this is because there's feels like there's fewer and fewer purely positive experiences on television these days in so much of reality TV centers around conflict and gossip and he said, she said in backstabbing in queer eye is none of that. And what I love about the way that they've evolved the show from its original days back as cry for the straight guy on Bravo. Is that this is no longer about telling people how they should live their life the way they should. Look what they should eat. This is about helping people realize the best version of themselves that they may be have lost along the way because of a hardship that they suffered or grief that they're going through or maybe they just got a bad Hannah cards, delta them they've struggled to overcome it. And this team comes in and says, hey, we're going to help you rediscover your best self, and we're gonna help you. Remember, how amazing you are. Just the way you are. And I just love that message so much that I'm getting a little teary eyed thinking about it, but it's such a feel good show and that cast this new crew of guys that they have on. It are just such wonderful people to watch on camera and that there's some really good nuggets of wisdom and life lessons to take away from that show. So if you've been not maybe waiting in the wings in your like, I've heard people talk about it. I really just urge you to at least watch a single episode and hopefully you'll get hooked. Queer eye more like tier-i? Yeah. That was queer eye, and it is on Netflix Christian Spicer. What's your parting gift? Why don't wanna spoil slash film? Casra people have listened to it. But I will wholeheartedly recommend Zam. It is such a fun movie. There's there's one superhero movie, that's fun. What it so? It's so fun. There's one scene in it that I think makes it may be inappropriate for younger kids, but you know, do some due diligence. But otherwise, I think the movie is a really fun movie for for young kids. Also, I think it's got a good message. It's funny. The action is great the special effects are great at my only. Minor knit with it as I wish that like one scene didn't happen because I'd be like six year old. We're going to the movies. It bums me out that the movies PG thirteen I feel like they wanted the PG thirteen because it sort of gives them a little street cred in can't have superhero movie that's p g but man, it should be. It should be a movie straight up made for seven year olds. Yes. Versus PG. You can do it. It's a bummer. There's no reason that movies should be PG thirteen it. It didn't need to. Yeah. It's but all that being said, go see Dr love is great. Levy Levy is great in it. The cast is phenomenal twelve in well acted and and beautiful absolutely beautiful. I really enjoyed his Zam. Agreed. I got a listener suggested parting gift is was sent to feedback at gmaiLcom. This comes from Collin Collin says fan of the show and first suggestion for a parting gift the band, new found glory is releasing a cover album of songs made famous by movies in may called from the screen to your stereo. Three and they've released a couple of singles in preparation last month. They released a cover of power of love by Hugh Lewis in the news. Curious thing, which was pretty good. But last week they released a cover of this is me from the movie the greatest showman. This is a brilliant cover cannot stop listening to it. If you even remotely a fan of pop punk the original song or just appreciate equality cover. You should give it a listen. Keep up the great work calling. Hey christian. I think your fan of pop punk NFC never heard of them. Never went on tour. Thumb never worked with them. Don't know who they are funny story about from three hundred stereo start at screen, Scranton stereo. They started doing those when they were lesser known and touring with bigger bands. And they wanted to play songs that everybody could sing along to as kind of like instant, you're on our side music, and they were so great. And so good at this. If they started bundling them and releasing them as AP's, and yeah, they are they are really fun. Very cool. If you wanna have your parting gift on our show Senate to us at DC feedback at g mail dot com. My part. Gift is a new stand up special that I watched last night with my wife and both of us were just doubled over in laughter. Loved it. Nate bar got see the Tennessee kid is on Netflix. He was one of the comedians in the show called. I think called the stand ups on Netflix, which I hadn't watched his episode of. So I wasn't really even aware of him. But he he references does updates to some of the material he did in that special literally, I paused his special halfway through win and watched the half hour of his the stand ups episode and then came back, and I'm so glad I did. Because he like update some of the stories that he tells the thing that's great about neigbor Godsey is he's hilarious and literally zero offensive language zero. Not a single cuss word not a single inappropriate setup or talking about taboo subject. He just makes. Comedy out of stuff. We all know, and you can talk about and kid could listen to, but it's ho- areas. It's smart. His delivery is Super Dry and matter of fact, I I'm now a giant fan of this guy bar got see the Tennessee kid on Netflix does AM live. If you can't he's phenomenal. And just the nicest guy just seems like the nicest guy just the best this love the fact that he can he didn't have to say single bad word in any could make everybody in that room. Just cry with laughter was great. Yeah. He's one of the best. He's great. All right. That's gonna do it for this episode of D L C. Thanks into Andrea. Renee in Christian Spicer for hanging out with me. Thanks to our musical contributors. Patrick L, Sean Madigan and zero star for making those awesome bumpers. Thank you to all of you who listen to our show. We certainly appreciate you downloading it telling friends about it giving us good reviews. If you have the time we'll be back next week until then think about what you put onto the world make it a better place.