Bob Thrash: Surrounded by Legends
This episode of the round six podcast is brought to you by trailer tug, the world's strongest trailer Dali. Learn more at trailer, tug dot com. It's the round six podcast. A weekly roundtable discussion, featuring a variety of automotive subjects interviews, special guests and stories hosted by the round six year heads Brian stuff ski Alex Welsh and Brad king. He ran up sixty four it's a virtual renaissance with a guy who can do it all the legendary the one, the only Bob thrash. Welcome to the podcast. I'm brian. I'm brad. I'm Alex, and I'm Bob Dr. Wait a minute. How many how many guys wear? Just three guys one. Mike. Okay. That's about that sexy. We are for those of you listening out there. We are honored tonight. You know, when I was in high school, one of the one of the main points of our mission, there was to have go out and become these renaissance men. You know, the kind of guy who goes out and does everything and tonight, we, we've got with us, Bob thrash, who literally meant he is the true renaissance man. Is there anything you can't do Bob? I I really suck at math. I told people that all the time. It's like. And it's like it's for ninety percent of what I do requires mass in. It's like I got a double check what I do a thousand times 'cause I questioned myself so much, but I mean, really the, the main thing was the only reason that, that you're kind of forced to do to learn everything is because that's the only way we could ever get anything done is like we just kinda had to figure it out. You know, so I think just being a car guy in general, you wanna you wanna be able to do a little bit of everything. And even like I love the guys that do interior stuff. I'm amazed by that. You know. So I, I would study the way that Jim Griffin and, like Tracy Weaver, and Joel Matic's, and the work that they do you know and to be able to work with guys like that and understand, you know exactly how they go about doing what they do. And it's like I am by no means and interior guy, but the more you can understand what they need the better, the better, you can design something for him. And not, not feel like you're stepping. On their toes or not feel like you're relying on them to make design look better. You know, just strictly a design point. You know, it's still turning out the way you want. But you know, just being in the car industry right now there's awful lot of young guys. And it's like I'm definitely not that guy. It's like I'm sixty one years old. You know, I've been doing this stuff for a long time. And I, I, I got my, you know, foot in the door per se I was just building build. My own cars, just, you know very cheap stuff. Because every job I had when I was younger was basically a minimum wage job. I wasn't I wasn't like a union guy. Wasn't a doctor lawyer like that, you know, I'm just, you know, just getting by doing what I know how to do, but going up the car shows the first time I went to St. machine. Nationals was in nineteen seventy nine and if there was, you know, one pivotal moment in my life that was doing that? I mean, hard to believe going to a car show. But we happen to stay at the same hotel got Solan and he had his seventy nine in seventy nine he had his sixty seven over there and you know, how called just amazingly that that's the first time I ever saw any car don't to that level by a guy who literally built cars out of a two car garage at home, you know. And I mean anybody that knows Scott Sullivan? It's like he's just a God. Yeah. Just in just a great. It's like he's one of the funniest guys, the most down to earth guys, you would ever meet, you know, and he literally did out of a two car garage, you know, and then that just yet was just our thing, every year, we would go to the street machine nationals, and that would be our vacation, you know, after doing that for several years in a row, we would always meet Scott and see what new stuff that he would bring their and that and I see I always I always draw I mean, I always liked draw on cars, and it's like I think the goal is always to build cars. But because when you're a kid, you don't know how to build cars. It's like what I was I was mazed by artwork from a very young age. You know. So, I would I would draw, and I would go to the grocery store and get cartoons magazine and, and study it. I mean exactly how did they create this angle? How did they know how to what, what techniques did they use to draw inside? So I could I could always draw, you know, just kinda crazy car stuff, you know, and it, it, it probably wasn't it probably wasn't like 'til five years after I, I admit Scott that he realized that I could draw in will Scott's an amazing airbrush guy, but he always liked to see what I could draw. And then he would talk to me about, you know, sketching up a different ideas that he had. And then we just started working together on a few cars like the graphics just fortunate enough to meet Scott and then start learning how to the kind of materials he uses and he is so unconventional. I've seen him you squirt guns with pain in them to not literally one he. You can't do that. And it's like it's just amazing. The just that's, that's when you start to realize that, that anything is possible. You know, there is no, there's no guidelines. There is no limitations. It's like it's whatever you can do to create an effect. That's what you can do. You know, and so I started getting into more the, the graphic side of it. And, you know, I, I work with Scott on probably like five or six cars, you know, one of the most memorable cars is. I'm sure you've seen it. It's the bones. Camaro Todd Clark's car. Yeah. Not, you know, not high dollar car by any means, but that car to me is one of the most the most recognizable pro street cars of that era. You know of that time, you know, I think it was eighty eight. We were at the street machine nationals, and I it wasn't long after the, I think within the next year I had left, I was living in Des Moines, Iowa at the time and the guy, I was working for sold his company. And so, I was basically our job, because I didn't wanna stay there and work for somebody else. So I move, I'm from the Chicago area originally. Anyway, so I moved back to the Chicago area. And at the time I had a, an eighty three Buick regal that I put a tune fort motor in and had dropped spindles on it and Iraq wheels just all the stuff that guys were doing cars at that time. You know, so I moved back to the, the Chicago area and I started, you know, hanging out with the, the guys that I grew up with when I was in high school. I was I was just doing like pinstr. And cars for like twenty five dollars and stuff like that. You don't I mean just just as something to do because I didn't have a job. You know I wasn't about, you know, I was like out now. I'm gonna do something with artwork. I'm not gonna do anything with, with just, you know, doing nine to five thing and, and amazingly enough, I just happen to be going through man Tino, and I stopped in at Jackson motive, which is choice, Panthers dad's shop and, and Troy was in alignment technician for his dad at the time. And I did some business cards form and I saw that, that he was building his own cars, and stuff like that. Like, I think it chevelle might have been there at the time, you know. And I think at the same time he was he was billed met his sixty Powell. Well, it turns out that Scott solvent had to do graphics on a pickup truck for Jones sprites, or this fifty six Chevy pickup. That was at the body shop that Troy was using to paint his sixty Chevy. So. It was kind of one of when things were I, I had a graphic job to do it, Scott. And then I, I that's how I met Jeff Saint Aubin the painter on he did. He was the painter on some chores, early cars and, and Troy and at the time I was, I think I was thirty two and Troy was twenty two or twenty one time and so his sixty Chevy. He had finished himself. But right after that, you know, him and I just started working more and more together after he, he learned that I knew a little bit more about, you know, car construction than heated. And, you know, the first car that we worked on together was the fifty Buick and that was the first full chassis car that we did. And at that time. His on the property there at Jackson a motive his Grandpa's house was there, and there was a one car garage there that had a quarter inch thick steel floor in it because his grandpa was like a welder and Handa. The rich thick steel. Ordering stick steel plate floor in this. Was a one. It was a one cocker off. And I remember, I'm remember putting that, that fifty Buick, you know, just the body show and I always wanted things I had explained it Troy. Well the way we gotta go about this is basically, you build the frame table. You get the body shell. You know, cut all the sheet metal out of the floor and all that, not the body shell on the frame table at right? Heightened, then you build a chassis, and that was the first, you know, to buy three or Tanggula Jesse that, that we had built together and in a one car garage. Had some pretty unique suspension. It was kinda done like kids, Zillow were it had actually had electric actuators working bell crank on the upper coil overs, in the, you know, that were Colo remount so that you could raise lower the back of the car like three inches and stuff like that. But, you know, your typical early nineties pro street, you know, pastel tweet interior, you know, pro streetcar. You know, and that car had a five ten believe it was a five ten offshore big block Chevy. You know, in it and so that car, I think that car in ninety two that car won the hot rod of the year. The, the, you know, at the canfield hot rod nationals, and all that stuff. So it just kind of snowballed from there and the magazines that, you know, as much as I knew Troy in that the magazines really liked Troy, you probably noticed. That is like. Getting. Yeah. In the beginning because they were really were they, they were really promoting. The fact that he's this young kid that is his family's really support them on this stop in. And they really did. It's like his father really really was behind him hundred percent. You know. And it's like when I was growing up, my parents for, like, you'll never make any money, building hot rods or you'll never fake any money drawn cars. You know, it's like, if that's what makes you happy you. Go right ahead. But with choice, family really wasn't that way. So it was it was it was beneficial for everybody involved that, that's the way that happened. You know. And I think after the like after the Buick the I think the person we did after that was a that rambler on the, the will a up the back for a second here. When you did the Buick, how long how long was that? How long have a project is that that was crazy car? It was like a year and a half because I 'cause really. I'm trying to think 'cause the yeah the, the sixty was finished in nineteen ninety and then we started on that Buick right after that. So it was done by like I said ninety two the Buick one hot rod of the year at, you know in, in the spring of that year. So slowly was I guess it wasn't a relondo drawn out build now. That's back. Then we weren't doing a lot of, you know, it was basically a handbill chassis completely stocked body proportions. We didn't cut nothing because we didn't we weren't. We weren't proficient in that yet we, we couldn't we just basically took every single bit of the way. Stock fifty Buick was and just just put it on a chassis, you know, but the body shout made everything look nice, and everything. But we didn't change anything, you know. Biggest so you, you just keep it simple that you didn't. Overtop crazy. Right. And it won't even even then, you know, Dan Houlahan who has, you know, who Howard shop in mooresville North Carolina. He's from mansion. Awal slow and he actually was the guy who did like the, the, like he's the guy that we learned how to build your floor and wheel tops and inner fenders even on that car. All the sheet metal was really basic. It's basically flat panels that were be ruled in that, but nothing, you know, nothing that you really had to, like, shrink and stretch inform. What you consider a real metal shaping. You know, everything was just really basic, you know, but the car had a really good look to it for that time, you know that. That's what detrimental guys were going. You know, is you, you mentioned K mention Dan. How Danny got you that whole shop bread Sony, like talented. Oh, yeah. When you win like I met all them guys when they were really young and, you know, they, they were enthusiasts, and they had a certain amount of talent, but they were by no means proficient. At what they could do. And it was it wasn't until they were in that environment. I can't I can't stress us about what the good things were about being a at, at Troy shop is just the fact that, that place, nurtured creativity, like you can't believe in a gave you the opportunity to, to explore like the possible, like 'cause Choi, I've never been around anybody that wanted something as perfect as what he wanted. You know most shops like even in the paint work. It's like he he wouldn't want Troy won the, the damn door. Hinges wet Sanan book. It's that kind of attention to detail, you know. And, you know, I my no means get that carried away. Now on on certain things. It's like you learn, you know what's important in, but it it's when you when you when you are at a stage when you learn that, that's the way it needed to be everything after that is so much simpler site. It really was. But I mean getting back to the guys, like like, you know, Jared Zimmerman that has, you know, that car fix show on Levi green just the painters, that Tyler Crowson an atom crawls. Those guys those guys literally came to maintain. Oh, right out of right out of school, and they didn't know that much. But they were really enthusiastic, you know, when it's just from their experience being at a place where they could really, they could really blossom it just made a huge difference. So it's like if I could tell that to anybody, it's like you know what, don't, don't be. Don't settle for some shop. That is only gonna let you do what the customer wants. And, and just you gotta stick it out and try to find a place where where they'll let you be creative in in, they'll pay to learn, and it's like a we all got paid to learn, you know. And it's like believe me, we didn't hope we didn't know me and Troy like we everything we learned was from trial and error, you know, and it wasn't working with, like I said, working with guys that are better than you. It's one of the biggest things is like like. Dan, Houlahan Bobby Walden, and Jim Griffin, and, and Tracy, we were and it's like any anybody who's at a way, higher level than than where you're at in their field of expertise. It's like man. It was just it was an amazing place to learn. Really? You know, I gotta say, I kinda I got brought into that fold kind of on the sideline getting to do renderings and work on some dirty stuff with Troy, and it was funny because I went into that thinking, I knew a little bit, and it was great. Because you walk in there. And you realize you really don't know, a whole hell of a lot and so much more to learn. So he kind of abandoned everything you just kind of fall into the culture there. And it was really cool because you don't realize, you know, at the time I was a young punk, but I walked out, and I look back and go, man, I learn more during my projects with, you know, you guys in your team than I think anything else, I could have ever learned at a school or anything else. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. It was at last. Snows in. I think that's a good word to use. There's like there was definitely a RAD rights culture, and, yes, just super creative, and it was an ask I pushed when you thought you came up with the idea, and the planet five guys look at it and go, what if we did this? And then suddenly you're going, what if he is in this, and this and but think putting up back then they were just cranking home runs. I mean every ad near putting out was awesome. Oh, yeah. It's great. You know, really was it really was a good time. It's like I'll I don't regret a minute of that. You know, that's like there is definitely like with anything, you know, there are definitely times you heads with people, what choice, Choi jacker, always the ones that had to deal with the customer, because to me in the end we always got, we always got to do it our way. And somebody had to be the one to deal with the murder to convince them that the way that I wanted to do it was the way it needed to be. And I see I didn't I don't really have much tolerance for that. It's like I don't I'm not really. Good at, at trying to trying to sweet talk the Murray to Peyton his car some weird color that nobody in the planet would ever let you do it that way. But then when it's done it looks amazing. And it's like Troy Jack Rohe's the ones that had. And so they were always good at it. It's like they were always good at, at even we, we got to we get we got to make decisions on virtually every single thing from the wheel design to the tire size to the what motor needed to be in it. What color and finishes. And, you know, that's one thing we were really exploring a lot on the in the early years was all the different types of finishes. And, and, you know, a lot of guys weren't just they weren't really experiment in that way, you know. And even even if it was a fail it was still. Okay. Well, now we know that now we know that, that doesn't work or you know, that's not a good idea. Like the I really start doing a lot of Matt finish stuff under the hood, which I thought was really cutting. Right. Right. That's the way I just I really liked the look of Matt, and shiny together. You know, like if you look at a blowfish that from, from a distant, she can't tell that car is met, and glossy. But when you get up on it, you really appreciate that part of it, you know, so I mean, I, I love that kind of stuff or even on, on suspension parts and, you know, trying to convince a customer, they think they want all the, the arms chrome and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no. So it's hard to cut, you know, they think because, you know, they're, they're paying big money for like a billet control arm. It needs to be chrome and it's like, no, it doesn't like it needs to we. We gotta make it go away. It's like but, but, but like this topic what methods do you use to convince the customer, that, hey, consider this instead. Yeah, it's hard. I said, I usually like in, in the instance of Troy's, there was no, I I wasn't the guy that had to convince them of that I just had to convince Troy that and pretty much if I told Troy, we had to cut the roof off car. He wouldn't even he just, like, okay, let's cut the roof off. But. But I mean he would never question. I literally I could get what I was like I was like the youngest child in a family. It's like I could get away with murder. Like. Laura, well, it didn't go over well with, because, you know, at, at times, there was a time when I think there was like sixteen employee's at Troyes, you know. And when I started there was just me and Troy, you know, so it didn't always go over well with all the other guys that, that no matter what I said, I got my way, it's like if I told them and, and you know, that's the way it got to be probably, you know, towards the end of you know, as I got just involved in a lot of other things is like I would only I'd have to go in there in the morning. Because like I said, I have my own shop down the road. I I would go in there in the morning kinda go over design ideas with that, you know, they would have like four or five cars going on. So I would have to talk with each guy because at the time, which I think it worked out, really, well, we're basically up, one guy would would be have his own project to work on until it's done. You know, and it's like I think people you don't realize how important it is to the guy working on it. Because they feel like it's their baby that, you know, when you when you're when you're having people bounce around from one project to next just a Bill hours. They don't feel attached to that project. You know, so I, I would have to work with each of those guys on the project that they were doing so, you know, they definitely had an opinion about stuff, but, I would I would just try to get them wind out on, like say a dashboard design or like what the hood needs to be shaped like or with the role pan needed to be shaped like or, or something. And I give them some leeway in that. But basically, in the end, you know, you still want it to look the way that you want it to look. And then I would just have to check back in maybe around noon, or something like that to see how they were going, and then again at the end of the day, so I would really only have to stop in there. You know two or three times a day and just kind of will things with people, and, you know, those guys, they would definitely have their own opinions. And a lot of it was just from, you know, working with them over the years. They understood the direction that year. To lead them into. And so they understood it there, weren't very, many guys that, that route, you really butted heads with or they really had a problem with what you were telling them, you know. So that was my role. They are basically as it, you know, after I was there a few years, is that I would just have to go in there and just say, well, this needs to kind of look like that, that needs to go like this, and we talk about colors and stuff like that me and Troy in that. And, and you know, enjoy really had really similar tastes is far as what, what we understood what was cool, you know, and one of the things Choi was really, he was more of a sixties car guy, you know, because that's the era, he he grew up. You know, he, he really probably grew up more like in, in that when cars of the eighties and the seventies were cool. So he didn't really understand street rod stop. Or what is correct for a street rod too much? You know, so when it came to Roger Ritzau, thirty two Troy was he was he was very little because he, he wanted to really traditional Flathead power. Car and Troy was so bored with ease like well, I don't know. I don't really know where to start on that, you know, and so he just he basically just said, just for me to work with Levi and just lead them in the direction that it needed to go in. And I just had certain things that I want it, you know, it's like it that car is still very traditional. But it had a lot of really subtle things done to it that made a big difference. I mean that, that car was voted one of the top seventy five thirty two Fords of all time by Ford Motor Company. So I'm very, very proud of that car because the thirty two guys got it. You know, and one thing I remember is George poteete coming in one day to check, you know, to, to look on progress on on something Troy was working on form, and he saw the thirty two there. And Troy immediately told me as I got nothing to do with this. He said, that's all bobbin. That's all bobbin Levi, green and leave. I was one doing all the, the fab work on it. I was just kind of, you know, throw in my two cents in on what it needed to, to look like. In that so poteete Poteen looked at me. Like, what the hell are you knew about a traditional car and was like, well, I guess, I know but, but he really I mean, it was more impressive that, that, that George liked it than I think anything else, and I remember when the car was done, Georgia George offer them, some astronomical amount like a half million dollars for that car and, and we didn't have anywhere near that in it. But that's how much George liked it. And Roger never sold it. And it's like that's a compliment that is that Roger liked that car that much that he wouldn't sell it. Penalty. Like how cool is that? I mean, there's little things like that, that mean way more to me than, than, you know, any amount of hourly wage that you get, you know how it is. I mean, it's just it it's more gratifying, just to see what somebody else thinks of what you did. You know, just. That's, that's kind of the name of this whole industry though. It's that dig me thing, you know, you're not you're not out for the ego stroke. But when it does come along you savor assets. Yeah. I mean, I think you always question what you're doing is a good enough. You know, is somebody that you respect in a like it as much as you do in, then when something like that happens. It's like manna makes you feel good. It's like I trying to think of what else after, you know, like you said, you know, I was around Troy's up until about two thousand eighteen I got or. Yeah. Or two thousand think because it was right after we did the Reeler two thousand eight after we did the Ridler car, and I started doing a lot more stuff for ring brothers. And then I ended up working with those guys for quite a while 'cause I really like they really like the, the like the muscle car style graphic stuff. I was doing on the hoods and, and, you know, that kind of thing, and they had a needy the enemy. I'm sorry. I was gonna say to me that was really important thing that to touch on their style was almost the natural move for you to go to because an what from like Sullivan thing, and there's. Definitely a lot of Sullivan's influence in Troyes work. So you took it, you kind of took it to the next level there, then you end up over at the rings where those guys are like, really heavy. It was almost futuristic the stuff they were in their early years. They were there, there, which, I can appreciate the back that they, they like doing the Bill itself. But like there was definitely a transition of what they're doing now is so much more refined and with anybody else, it's like the, the first cars, they were doing they like doing the in your face. He billet you know, just really aggressive styling, and now, they're, they're incorporating more tasteful on. It's still it's still aggressive. You can still tell it to ring brothers thing, but it's not as aggressive as it was in the very beginning. And I like to think I, I told him down a little bit. But if there's a lot of excellence in there. Short. There's a ton of your influence in there. I'm I'm, I'm glad I was able to help out in that in that way because I think it's all for the better the cars, you know, it's like one of the first cards that I got to, to work on that was really proud of his at razor Camaro. That was two tone to sixty nine Camaro that had like a hockey stick stripe down the side channel frame car to. Yeah. And it was just really super tasteful cars still look like a sixty nine Camaro. It had just the right amount of body Mods stuff like that. You know it just I thought it was really, really tasteful. And then after that was a that the after burner fair lane that it was just a red sixty four fair lane. That had Rosh motor in that, but it was basically all read, but had like these hood, ducks that then it the radiator heat out the hood, and I mean, it was very muscle car like style paint scheme in itself. I really liked that car lot. And there was another like. One of the one of the main cars, I was doing metal work on. There was a seventy Mustang that they ended up calling it dragging. I think it wasn't. It was a dark red seventy Mustang with quite a bit. They ended up making like front and rear on it. Like a like a kid that you could bolt onto your stock seventy Mustang to make it into that dragon style. You know. So I had to create all that stuff out of steel, and then they copied it and carbon fiber. And I think they still market it to this day. And so I was one of the things that I always liked that we never got into a Troy's much like marketing parts of your own design and that, and that's the nice thing about ring brothers, as we talked about, like the door handles, I was involved in designing some of the door handle stuff that they were doing and just different. I said like the dragon sheet metal parts that they ended up making carbon marketing that way, you know. So it's nice to, to design stuff like that. And. And actually haven't mass produced and know that people can go out and buy it, but and I'm always been into wheels. I mean I, I mean wheels are like one of them, one of them things that we'll they can go in any direction whatsoever. You know, and it's hard to come up with wheel. It's like how do you how do you ever design wheel? That's as successful as a, like a American torque, thrust. You know, take Yati you compete. I mean how you compete with making no matter what you come up with. How do you come up with an idea that, that is going to be as success? I've had, we'll manufacturer asked me that they wanted me to it's like, hey, I want you to design the next, you know, car of next, we'll it's going to be as popular as the American torque thrust, or, you know, the crater s at now want you pay me, like ten million dollars. And that's that's they wanted me to to guarantee. It. I'm like, how can I guarantee you can't how do you know how, you know you don't know next be monoply or something like that. You don't know where we're gonna go years ago there was like three wheel designs now there's like three million wheel designs. But one of the cool things is seeing like that, I that I definitely will always try to take credit for is nobody was doing a spiky direction wheel until I did the until I did the switchblade for Budnick, and that was just a wheel that it was, it was basically based on a wheel that Budnick was already doing. I think it was that tusk I think it was and I just added some these little spike things in there. And it just outsold the tusk by buck and ten bazillion. But in every every, every Japanese wheel manufacturer was copying it, and I'm like, if I were to got a nickel for each wheel. It's like twenty. Things that I just I drew it up for the, the rambler. I think it was. And we ended up putting him on the rambler until that's another good story is we had him on the rambler. If you look at the early pictures of the rambler it has the, the switchblades on it, and then in other pictures at got these Boyd wheels on it, and the way that happened was board was at a car show. We were doing a lot of stuff with boy at the time, and he was offended that we have Budnick saw the ramblers. So he's like I'm gonna send you some wheels. So Toyota put these other wheels on it just to pacify Boyd. So I liked it better at switchblades on me, but we should have, you know, own if you could have gotten a hold of centerline and done like a switchblade with, like, the convoy pro. No, that's going to be the next big wheel. Blade. Everything's better with condo. No tiny worse now than direction wheels. And it's like but at the time I just love, you know, the early nineties, it's like direct knows the style, too. Big bid we can't talk, somebody to bring in back the keystone classic but doing that with, like a tro twists. I don't. I don't know if if, if you guys know what the I think it was motor wheel that motorists spider. Yeah. I, I, I loved the only made that we'll from sixty eight to seventy four and I cannot convince any of my customers that I got right now to let me recreate that we'll in a big diameter wheel because everybody just looks at it, and they're like, nobody recognizes it. And I'm like you don't how conic that we'll is to me something offline when we're done. I'm gonna ship you over when I truly three years ago. Let's come out our notes. You and I going to make this happen. Okay. Will ever. That's one of my favorites being a mole par guy. It's like that's what I remember that. We'll be on mo- pars it, it looks like it could have been a mo- par wheel. But I don't know for some reason. I always associate that we'll with a mo- par. Absolutely. I don't think they look great on though. If you did it the right offset, if you did the one, I am going to give everything I'm not going to give away what I did to it. The way did mind. I was really cool on a Korver it just has looked to with the line. You know, that's an okay wheel go motor. We'll have some cool designs back. They like the fly. That's a well that's. Like Scott, Scott's fifty by when I foresaw, he had I'm trying to think of what they were, they were. I think they were crater what he had a machine out to be the same pattern as a motor will fly. So it was like a it was actually like a super what was what Craig crater have back at the time that was a real drag race wheel. I can't think for Christmas. Yeah, it was like street. It was like super trick, but it was a real drag race super trick. It wasn't. Right. It was nothing. Yeah. They're actually to stamped halves with, like a three award six spacer through anyway. He had his machine out to look like a motor real fly. When he when he drove that car cross country, they had some, you know, it because of the front ones are so skinny ended up having issues with it, and, but who else would drive that biggie, five cross country anyway, but, but, but Scott and it's a great article in hot rod. But if you on his Bill threat, over on Facebook, we have I am. And that's what he's like he just posted a picture yesterday. I think it was of Bogart's made make an a wheel now that is copy of the fly in it. It's, it's as correct as you'd ever imagine. And I'm, I'm sure it structurally sound, you know, but Scott Scott, I mean his car had after he took the flies off of it. He put Budnick made him some wheels. That, that look, kind of similar to the flies, but they're still looks like a Bill wheel. It's like well, it's not the same. But these bogus. Wheels, definitely look just like the old fly. So they're great job guys. And they can handle the street like not larage Nel's. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The originals were never meant to do that. They were just building her straight line few seconds at a time, but are colostomy put those on his realo thirty six willies. And I just flipped out and has to put an advertisement in the back hot rod every month. Trying to find anybody all sell in those things. Remember always had an ad in the back, you know, looking for motor wheel flies. Break in pretty regular rate, lost his cross keys was another one of those cars that was way ahead of its time his so far I mean to soap are head of its time. And that's Greg flurry for you. It's like that guy just his, his work. Always amazed me, you know, and that, that sixty six chevelle twin turbo car that I'm working on L for Joe Nichols. See greg. It's Greg did a bunch of the work on that car. All that, if you look at the, the pictures of all that aluminum air intake stuff for the inner cooler in, you know, some of the Cassie work on the, the very front of that car, Greg, it all that stuff. You know, and that's that's just a Morrison chassis car that Greg cut up quite a bit. But the parts that I added or basically, the cage and the, the dashboard, and trying to think of what else I did on it so far. That's another great story that you know, that that's. Avella Joe's with a car that he built that won a bunch of wards at St. machine. Nationals back in like nineteen eighty nine or something like that knows your typical big block Chevy pro streetcar. But now he's doing it as you know, reincarnation, basically of that car, only taken to a much higher tech level being a, you know, all billet block, you know, big block Chevy twin-turbo hundred two millimeter turbos, and in a reap I mean just two thousand four th power streetcar. You know, but that's missiles that's Joe Nichols for you. But this car is, is, is, is just amazing just the work that, that, you know, I'm so happy that, that Greg had a part in that and it's like it'll only make the stuff that I'm doing look that much butter. So, you know, whenever you post the pictures on that thing you know, going to be a sad day, when it all gets blown apart and gets painted and there's nothing against the payers and all, but I love it. I Ross deal Atlit so bad ass. That's a lot. People don't understand like, why do you, why do you show everybody exactly how you do what you do? It's like they're just going to take your ideas. And it's like you know what when this car is done in painted, nobody's gonna pre sheet it as much as they are appreciating the pictures of it in bare metal and psych. You know, people can try to steal your ideas, but they're just gonna they're, they're not gonna copy them, exactly the same way that you're doing it. You know. And so I'm not offended by that. It's like I'd much rather have the documentation of and I like to, you know, I liked to show people detail stuff. You know, it's like I, I think it's cool. I don't know. Let's Savell in that early sixties Pontiac that you were doing you still on that cars that guy. That's another guy from NASCAR. Yeah, that Pontiac is so segment all market from. He's actually from moments on. And right now, I think it's only waiting I think Tracy, we were supposed to be doing the interior in that car. And I don't really know. I mean when I was at platinum, you know, helping them guys that that was the main reason I was there at that place was to be able to see that car through, you know, that's one of those cars at, you know, I'm all about doing a nice car like a Riddler car. It's like to me, rich. Cars are way way too much. I don't know how they explain it. We their way to involve their way too much of furniture. Right. I mean I love the finished product but to me that Pontiac is Mike kind of car because what I wanted to do on that car was take the, the Acas those had a really good chassis. Those were perimeter frame. You know, the Chevys were an expert car, the Pontiacs permettre frame, putting that that's interesting. Yes. Looking that album of the Pontiac on in my mind, Facebook stuff, and look at the chassis work, and you'll be able to see, but I love the roadster shout front suspension. Like I, I don't think they're doing it right now. They see before, like in the past couple years, you could buy just a front suspension cross member with, with all the repo stuff, but I heard that they quit doing that, because they would much rather focus their time on building a complete chassis than building, just at suspension part. So I don't know that if they're really. Discontinuing doing that. Or if that's still the Amway. The rotor shop front suspension stuff is is really, really nice. And so the back I just I took all nets got that really big Pontiac rear end. And Paul already had like a four Levin gear in it, and like the safety track, and beer, axles. So what I what I wanted to do is just narrow the rear end a little bit. We ended up, you know, just putting some Moser axles in the backyard, but it's only narrowed to fit attention will in the back of it because he didn't wanna many of it. I did end up near. I did end up notching the frame like an inch and a half on each side to be able to fit a bigger tire on it. But I didn't have too many of it. And that's the one we had Yvonne do the wheels that are are like a tribute to the early. Eight log on. Really cool. Yeah. Did a great job. But that that car in general. Just the the design of it in the simplicity. I mean, I basically worked on that car by myself, for like the first two and a half years. You know, it wasn't like a it wasn't like a fulltime job. I mean it was bouncing because, you know, at the shop, we had, like, you know, four five cars going on. So I can't tell you how many hours in that carbon. If you look at it, it's fairly simple Bill. The guy could really build a similar car that in their garage at home. To me, it's all tasteful stuff. Like like doing the engine compartment the way that I wanted it done. You know, it's still has stock in her wheel tubs. It has like some openings in the core. Support like Pontiac might have done before. They came up with ram air stuff. You know, just the, the amount of true on to look like like a Pontiac executive would have ordered Bonneville in nineteen sixty one. To be is work car, but yet have all the super duty parts put on it, you know. So that's what I wanted that car to be, you know, so but I loved that car in it or it's right now. I think it's just waiting for the interior. But it's, it's a great color. It's like I got to pick the color on that car. It's actually a Aston Martin color. But just little things like cutting the bumpers up doing typical style extending the rockers, one of the things I hate the most on a car is a pinch weld on the bottom of the rocker. So I always try to just extend the rockers down to hide the pinch. Well, it just makes the car look that much lower anyway, when you do that, and it's one of the things when it's done, you can't really tell that it was done in the customers. Like, why, why did I spend ten thousand dollars? It's like fall when it's done. It looks right? It's because you're trying to make it look cool. It's just that you're trying to make it not look bad. So in that sixty one such a good lookin' body style. You gotta kinda be careful not to take too much away from that car has such great body. People love the apology. But I think those are better looking car in that year. Sixty one for sure early. I love a love the front ends on them. I just they're really long. I mean, the, the Pontiac version, the, the Bonneville anyway, is a hundred twenty three inch wheelbase worthy Chevys, one hundred nineteen or like the venture as are the shorter wheelbase like the Chevys, but the Bonnevilles are the law, they got a five inch longer quarter panel. So if you look at that Pontiac the deck looks like a damn El Camino. Cover. That, that car is so bad as so I know, someday someday, the Pontiac will be like Seema, or it'll be it'll be somewhere important like lumber in that, and you definitely, it's one of them cars, you got to see him person just the little details. Yeah. Tenneco back a little bit. We had kind of mentioned Ridler cars, and you've had your hand in that kind of stuff. Where where's your head right now, with what they're doing say with the Elslander memorial award and allowing people to show pictures of the cars. I mean, do you think this is going to think it's gonna help it? It's hard to say it, you know, all the rules that, you know, and the met demand thing is there's almost, I think they really shouldn't disqualify a car because somebody at sometime in the life of that car. Somebody took a picture of it, and then somebody put it online, and it's like that shouldn't be the owners problem, you know, it's hard to say I mean, I don't I mean, I think the reason that that rule came up to begin with, is, it's the promoters of the car show. Just trying to get people to come to see a car for the first time, you know, it wasn't, it's for no other reason than financial gain by the by the car show promoters. You know. And it's like that. The guys spending all that money to build a car shouldn't be hindered by that part. I see both sides of that equation because. Yeah, it's kinda cool to go see a car that, you know, you've never seen, and you kinda hurt a little bit about it, but you never, but there's also some like like a car that you've built I've been watching you put this together. Now I get to see it now I get to look at it a horse and really appreciate his that's the way I look at it. It's like you know I it's it's it's hard, it's just hard for the customer. And it's hard for the shop building it because the shop building it always wants to be able to post pictures of what they're doing to get more work, or, you know. Fall out of the public eye today in social media. Most people think your shop closed right. Right. It takes so much time to do Ridler car. I mean it's I think that the thirty six that we did at Troyes there's thirty thousand man hours in that car. I only all done three weeks for TV show though. Yeah. That's, that's like. And then and then you couldn't show any pictures of that car, and it's like Hannity just, it's tough, you know, and it's like even today when I mentioned that car, nobody, I know knows of that car. But if I guarantee there's more people at no the cars that I post who bare metal on Facebook that know about what car won the Riddler two years ago. So it's true. I like that. I look at it that way. So it's like well, it's great for the, the customer, I get to. To be able to win that kind of thing. But it's those just those cars. I'm glad to be involved with the ones that I was involved with just for the amount of creativity that they that they allow you to to have, and, and the expense of what it takes like Bill, mention stuff from scratch, you know, it's like you can't do that on a on a driver type car and expect, you know, expected to live for any great amount of time and the maintenance of it, and all that stuff, you know, and it's like it's great for a show car, it's great. You know, for the, the piece of furniture that they are, it's great to look at, but it's not it's not really feasible on a driver. And that's what I try to focus on any more. It's like I, I still wanna do really cool suspension stuff. They have. But you want it to you wanna make it look cool. But it doesn't need be over the top relearned type stuff. It's like I liked. I always liked them real mechanical functional part of it and. Not making a bunch of is not making a bunch of covers. That's one thing that anymore. I really try to stray away from is making a cover just a hide what something looks like you know, there's nothing to me uglier than a, a stock ls nine it's like that's almost looking border. When makes it makes for self by being six hundred a heart what it just looking. So I mean I'm involved with projects like that, that you gotta make a cover. You know, you gotta cover this thing because it's just dumb luck. And, you know, I'd much rather like the, the one commercial that I'm working on right now is it's down hardy. Bill, LT, four. And those are actually a pretty good. Lookin' motor in the stuff like hardy makes the Bill valve covers and billet coil pack covers stuff like that. And it's real functional looking it still looks like an t for. But it's pretty it's not it's not dumb looking, you know, so I, I like I like that kind of thing. I don't know. I still like the real mechanical funk. Final look of stuff, you know, but, like when we were doing stuff back in the nineties, we thought it was cool to make engine covers and you know, cover everything up, you know. And it's like now can't you, you wanna get away from that and try to try to make the mechanical components as cool looking as they can look, you know? So I think. Does your pretty impressive stuff with the s Motors is ugly as they are? There's some guys pretty cool staff, and they look pretty good when they're done. Yeah, I like you know, there's there's guys address it more of the. You know, trying to make them look like an early small walk which, technically they're covers in that doing an intake that looks like a four barrel intake, and it's like I really liked the look of that, you know, it's just the nines, I pick apart because my God is done in a Mets saying there wasn't any creativity making the engine covers stuff is, you know, I've done a bunch of you, you all the master of that your designs on that stuff. You can tell the ones you did. And what what's funny though, like it just seemed kind of cheat it was what's, what's these throw something over it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's cool. Maybe because people are more open to it. But it allows us to really push things a little bit furthering. Okay. How can ill like you said, how can you make this look cool versus just covering it or talking? Right. How you run a surviving belt behind the firewall to hide. You know. Actor nature that you don't wanna see. It's if you're sit we could probably come up with a shaft driven alternator. Oh, yeah. The drive. The drive. If you look at the that fifty seven that, that one, the Ridler just last year that's neck law is, I'm not sure if you know who he is. But he's probably been involved. In more Ridler cars that people don't know about, but he started doing that car up in at his shop, in Iowa, we design the suspension stuff, and, and Scott was another one of those guys that's really good to work with this. He's a really, really creative guy. And he's a guy that does all that interior still if you've ever seen it worth all wet sanded and buffed. It's like the headliner the garnish moldings the dash the, the floor every single part of the interior is what's headed and bumps. That's that's got snack law. It's like who in their right mind would do that? You know how the I definitely like I mean, I'm glad for the, the, the Ridler car stop that I've been involved with, but I kind of gravitate more towards like cars like the Pontiac or like Joe. Nichols sixty one volatile that I'm doing right now. Like Joe's sixty one is it's basically a stock zero six drive train, which just different intake, and in exhaust and stuff like that. But that car, you'll be able to get it drive it to California power windows, air conditioning powder, coated chassis Morrison chassis, just sits forges, off the ground completely drivable, and it's like that's my idea of a car. It's like it's definitely a show car, but it's not a trailer Queen you know so I just like cars like that zone. It's one of the things that I wanted to talk about was the hardest thing to teach somebody is proportion. I'm sure you know that there's a lot of there's a lot of things people make modifications, just for the sake of making modifications. You know, but trying to get the proportions right is one of the hardest things to explain to people, and it's either you get it or you don't you know, it's just really nice being able to work with. Guys like that. That understand the reason why you're changing this or changing that it's like it's not it's not for the Saco of making it radical or making it more radical, it's just to get the proportions. Right. You know and so taking a further back, you'd mentioned doing some work early on with Scott as far as graphics. Go went what point you're lifted you pick up the airbrush the first time while I think. That's another story. I don't I don't wanna step on anybody's stills or make anybody go bad mouth anything, but it was when the first car that I was able to do some actual pain work on working with Scott was, Troy's fifty Buick because that was he Troy had Steve Stanford to rendering that car and a lot of what Steve did on the Buick was, he, he wanted to make it more of a, a hard top type car with I think, even had it, where it didn't have windows at rolled up in it in the sides of it was pretty radical. But we basically we kept all the stock portions, but we used Steve's rendering to lay out the paint scheme. And the only thing that we wanted to change was Choi really likes got Sullivan's. So the badges on that car were on the on the hood, it's like a Chevy bowtie busting out of. View, again, 'cause it had big bucks, Evian it, and I'm one side Buick badges, one of the badges was like, nitrous bottle. And on the other side I think it was just a stock Buick badge. You know the shield the Tri shield badge, but it was just a weekend project at Scott came came to Mantilla. No from Dayton, and I grew it out of what we all had to do in Scott, airbrushed it. And then he left me do a little bit of painting on one of the badges when was all said and done. I think Scott got he paid like a thousand dollars and I got paid one hundred dollars. And that's when I knew. That's what you need Princess. I, I know I know. I know I am not. I am not saying any, that's just when you know that it's like what should I do this, you know, little did I know how hard it was? Then that was just a very simple job. You know. So it was right after that, when after we did the Buick the job of the. The, the rambler, the fifty nine the rambler wagon, and that was another Steve Stamford drawing. It was red red and black two-tone. And I, I was studying the drawing and I told joy that I could do that. You know, and, and that's when I went from making like fifteen dollars an hour to make an fifty dollars an hour doing airbrush were you doing pain work? You know. So that was the big turning point, that was the first car that I did graphics on completely on my own, and it's like it was mostly due to Scott's mentor, mentoring me, and giving me the opportunity, and he doesn't work with people. I mean I mean, I feel I feel blessed because I don't think in Scots history that he's ever taken anybody unders wing that he did me. And, and you know, it's like, my think my whole career I oughta Scott solvent. I mean because I never would have. I never would have had the balls to jump in it always scared hurting. Somebody's car, you know, it's like I could never if I screw this up, I can't afford to fix it. You know what it's like it's the it's, it's being brave from for one thing, working with Troy's, where Choi's one of those guys that he jumps into everything feed, I regardless of the consequences. It's like so he taught me just do it just jump in and figure it out. You're smart enough to figure it out. I think it's one of the one of the things I'll always remember about working guys like like Troy Scott workers, that you're smart enough to figure it out. You know. That's it was scary believe me because I was a guy like I said, always made how does this guy that draws cars in, and I get to work with? I got all of a sudden, you have to work with guys like that, that, that I just looked up to so much, and then just through experiment Neo not after the after that part of it, you know, after that part of working with Scott and just kind of understanding the materials and the you know, how what you gotta say, in something with to get the paint to stick or what materials to use in that, then I wasn't afraid anymore. It's like you're still kinda screwed up and you and you just sanded off, and you try again, you know, but I wasn't afraid to hurt and somebody's car anymore, and it just the more and more, you learn the better and better, you got at it. And I think I got to a point where okay this is as good as I could ever get because I just want to spend more time on it's like I can do better. I, I would have to spend a lot more time and there's just. Not the time that I'm allowed to spend on it. It's like I went from spending, maybe, maybe, forty or fifty hours on a on a graphic job to spend in two hundred hours on a graphic shop, and I'd be like, okay. I got a cut myself off because there, there's no end to it. It's like the more the more you the better you get at it. I think the, the more you wanna do. Push the envelope of, of, of seeing what the customer will let you get away with. I guess I don't know that. But I don't think I ever disappointed like I heard somebody right? I get a bad design on a car, you know, I think I think I'm always proud of, and that's why I didn't wanna be the guy that that it you're on a time line. Okay. And okay, this has to be done. This has to be done in a week or this has to be done in two or three days because we gotta get it cleared because we got a photo, shoot and baba. It's like that was never really the case at Troyes. It's like there were certainly deadlines. It didn't matter. If you had to work all night or all weekend or a month. Straight to meet that deadline. You're still allowed the hours to devote to the artwork in order to the to the craftsmanship part of it. So it no matter what you, try to never shortcut, the craftsmanship whether or not there was money entered or not. I remember one thing we were doing Danny Jacobs, thirty nine Chevy back in the day that was like in. It was a first three rod that Imia. Troy really didn't know what we were doing. We're just trying to build a nice car, and that was in ninety five. I believe, and that's the one I did like alligator or snakeskin. Yeah. Alligators skin, a graphics on the outside. Open the door and that car. And it's like I love that Cardi death. And, and, and I remember, you know, the guy who owned the car owned a local hardware store, and, you know, he's basically, he's, he's building a, you know, our mind, Ridler quality car on a shoestring budget. And a lot of it, he couldn't afford to have us do it in a lot of stuff. We just did you know, for free basically, you know, because I remember at one point Choi coming up to me it was payday. And he goes, well, how much money you do actually have to have this week. You know, and people don't understand that part of it that much. It's like I'm sorry, but we're not gonna we're not gonna short cut the car. We got this vision for what it needs to be in. And we're gonna build it to that level whether the guy can afford it or not. And as long as he doesn't tell us long as it doesn't come and take it home. We're, we're gonna make it turn out the way that we want it, you know, and. And that's well that was good on that car because that's the show that we took that car to Detroit that year, not intending on it being a great car, but it was parked. Right across the aisle from George poteete. He had thirty seven four that year. And that's how we met George poteete had he probably had three hundred three or four hundred thousand in his car in ninety five we had a hundred in this car, and everybody told his head, your realize your car almost beat George book, teach cards and up when they said, that's when you know, that, that you're doing good work. You know, it's like, Georgia's even said ever since George has been a good friend Choi myself, so. You like to think that you, you do good work wall, regardless of, of the pay of it. You know, when the first of minor senior paint work, I'd seen your stuff the years, you've been doing stuff for a long time, and it was the year, we actually met at Sima and, and that forty was there that, that will that you were talking about earlier, and then that and then that all wheel drive thirty two that you guys did that one summited built. Yeah. Guy. The second version was a whole lot prettier than the firs-. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, but I remember walking up, you know. And you and I were talking to your like, yeah, you do the brush, I masked us and I do this, and I'm looking at your stuff up close going. Holy crap. This has gotta take forever because this. This. Well, and I and I know that because I you know, being a painter, I do appreciate what you do. So to and hats off to you or your freaking amazing. I'm pretty sure on that. I'm not I'm not embarrassed. You know, I think I'd be more embarrassed about stuff that people don't give you the time to do it in. In that's really doing into that's that's really Troy's doing, you know, I mean he's really the one that got the customer to to let me do what I needed to do. You know, and, and I wasn't I'm not the guy that had to deal with the customer, or, you know, I didn't have to try to, to get a design, okayed by the customer, basically, I would, I would do it rendering and show him. But I wouldn't really have to be the guy to try to convince them that this is the way it needed to be or get them involved in it that much, you know, that, that's a hard, that's a really hard part of the business that we're in, you know. And, and that's the one thing that Troyon Jack we're really good at so in ram in the end, you end up with a car like that, forty that to me that, that forties like really controversial because I think if you either really like that car you're really hated because it's kinda weird, you know, especially the interior in that car. And it's like, but the owner was really open to that type of idea for the interior. And so we just got to run with it. You know. So I'm proud of that part of it too. You know, those are cool car Medicare the car did a lot of neat stuff and realize how many off the shelf parts are on that car. Like, you know Greenwich modified, but, you know, theme tire roof mechanism was, what must must Thang. Yeah. It had to be narrowed at the top, the when, when we first start working on the car. The windshield the other shot that worked on it. The top of the windshield was actually wider than the bottom of the windshield. And we're like what the hell he's taken? You know so we had to change. I mean, but that was like, you know, the clam shell I mean, everything had to work kind of like a new BMW you know, it's just it really there's so much to it. And people don't realize that what it all took them to make that function. Right. You know, I was gonna jump on. The Brad bandwagon mentioned, you know, how know they, you know, you to admit it seem you. And I met at Sima kind of the I think it might have been that same year before the Torino. So, yeah, that would have been right on the same timeline. And I I've never I don't think I've ever thanked you enough for being kind as you were that day. Really cool. I think I fan boy, a lot of you. All right. It's always good. That's one good thing about seem that I kinda miss, because I've really been there that much in the last few years, but I think hopefully we'll have Joe Nichols sixty one because Nichols good friends with the Sada guys. So they always wanted to bring it car there. So I think we may end up having his sixty one bubble top in the Sada booth sometime, maybe this year. But I'm not quite sure if that's going to happen, they may be at upholstery by the end. So I don't know if that's gonna happen. But, but yeah, I kinda missed that because to me seem always been like a like a like a class, I wouldn't say, a family reunion, say, more like a class reunion that you run into people that, you know, in the industry, and it's nice to touch base with them in that. And like you said, I kinda missed the, the graphic part of it because a lot of people I know relate to that a lot, you know, and I kinda I kinda got away from it. More to be involved. In the metalwork that I wanted to I wanted to pursue more and I'm still done graphic stuff in the last few years. But just it probably doesn't not, not on as much of a high profile thing. Like when I did stuff where like Troy rain brothers were there steps in the magazines all the time or like it seem on, you know, just high profile stuff, you know, but with the new shop, I, I hope to start doing a little more graphic work, but, you know, like I said, I'm sixty one years old, my eyesight is not as good. It might take me row belong, but I still got ideas that I wanna do on, it's gotta be the right car, and that's the one thing I, I try to stress people anymore. And it's like, well, I hate to put it this way. But I don't know if your car qualifies for, for what I wanna do you know, so I just don't wanna do you know, just get paid to do get paid by the hour to do artwork on something that I'm not excited about I guess you're you're allowed to pick as you get older. That's that's part of the joy of. Like pig on. Luckily, I got right now I got an afford keep you busy for a while. So it's like, oh when you're younger and you try to be picky. It's like, well shit if I turn that down. I got it on the do. So now it's like, well I got I got stuff to do. Aplenty or or you get that reputation as the guy. Oh, he's too picky. Works, and so it's well I you know, I do admit that are in the in the past and probably probably haven't changed a whole lot. But if you ask Troyer ring brothers or any of them guys, they'll definitely tell you that, that Baltar she's opinionated. Some bis pretty hard to he's, he's pretty hard to deal with, you know, and it's like well I'll give them that. It's like I can't I can't deny that part of it. You know, when I think it's just a I think I'm just being true to, to the art work. You know that's the way I look at it. It's like I just wanna my way because I can I can figure out. I can see it that way. And that's just the way it needs to be. I may not be good at explaining to the customer that, but it's basically the way I wanna do it. So hard to say. Speaking here, we got three artists here, all of us have kind of done thing that there's a point, you reach though, where if you can back up your idea in what you're saying and justify it, and it's falling on deaf ears. You know, he wanted to something that's gonna help the car out. And in a we're, we're in the whole thing. Our job is to make it the best product compulsively be. And granted, we always don't see everything. I mean, they might be some hidden yet things somewhere. But if we're going at it with an idea that this is what's going to help make this part of the car. Well and flow with this part you've got you. Sometimes you have no choice is in Seoul. I said, I, I know a lot of times you can try to explain it to customers or some customers at no matter what they don't they can't get it until they see it at the end. And so you, they're basically working on blind faith. You know, that is you trust me, or you don't if you trust me, guaranteed, you'll be happy. And, and I there's, there's only been a mean of everything I've ever done. There may have been one or two guys that when it was was done. That is wasn't quite there taste. And you know it's not like they said, we'll just repainted her just that's not what I wanted, but it's like ninety nine point nine percent of the time. I've had customers say that I had no idea it was going to be as, as nice as that, that they just hadn't is couldn't picture, you know, in in, I understand that, you know, I, I think I take for granted, I think a lot of artists type people do that you have the vision in your head. And you got the basic idea you may not be able to. To draw exactly. 'cause it's hard to it's hard to show somebody muddle flake in and pearls and all that by talking about it. You know, when they see it in the end, they're just like holy crap. You know, it's like they're just blown away by it. And that's ninety nine percent of the time. But there has been that, you know, once or twice when the customer is just like. It's not exactly what I was thinking, or, or you might have to change the color a one panel just so that they had a say so in it, they wanted to say that. Change something. They just want to change something not feel like they were wrong, you know, so. Okay. Well, I'll give you that. So I hit taken at one point early on in my career. I decided 'cause you mentioned trying to show somebody metal flake looks like I had the super brilliant idea, and it was probably due to the fact that I hadn't slept for a week, I thought on use some glitter on this on there was some spray fix putting a little bit of glitter onto this rendering. I wrote hunting up in the tube and I send it off right? While I get the phone call from my client, who's pissed off at me because I glibly bombed him with this tube of just glitter. And it's nothing like trying to tell a guy well, okay. Take it sweep it up off the floor and sprinkle it nicely over the top of the rent. It just send you on the AL twenty you mentioned that because on the on the Pontiac that sixty one Pontiac the side trim. I put gold medal lake on the insert of the side, trim. And I'm trying to show that in rendering for Tracy of the interior because I wanted him to we're gonna make some panels, that actually are painted with some gold medals like in it. So I actually did the same thing. I have I I'm trying to think what I used for it. He's for the gold medal flake. But it wasn't. It was just like, like a, some kind of clear fix it or something. And it basically does the same thing. It just didn't stick, you know. So. And then I made I tried making color copies of it, and it just doesn't look, muddy doesn't look like so on the rendering that I actually had to send a Tracy I sent him the ones with the actual gold medal. Blake, and I was waiting for him to get back with me, and tell me. Same thing. He's like, what's all like birthday glitter here? Something. Tracy deserves some glitter in his life. So here's your graphic style. When, when you approach your called on to throw graphics on a car, what, what is your approach to do you? Guide you on this one. Whisking Bob, I think, you know, I think one of the things that always stuck with me is in. It was an article in hot rod magazine once about talking to, like, Harry, Bradley, and he said, a car should look like a wedding dress. It should flow Fronta back. You know. And that's always stuck with me. And so to me, the graphics, always have to have a direction, I think when you're talking about a car like like like not, no, not necessarily like when you're trying to do something that is a, a take off of a, a muscle car tight graphic, you know, or like a factory must car tight graphic. I mean, I think cars s to have like a forward motion look to, you know, but that's one of the things like when you're laying out of like a car like the, the graphics on the forty or like the rambler or something, you know, you gotta keep that in mind is that it's like a car should always look like it's got motion to it. So I always have that in the back of my mind, you know as far as as that. Part of it. You know. And people don't I think one of the hardest things is like people always wanna throw colors on it, that are so contrast thing, and it's hard to visualize. What others actually look. Good together. You know, and that's just personal in my pants just personal preference. You know, and there's when you try to tell somebody, you put Brown pinstripes on their you know around you something, they're like Brown. What would you put Brown on on, on a red card, you know? And it's like, well it's hard to explain. But when you see it, you'll like it, you know, so it's kind of just one of them things that it, most of, it's purely subjective that yet a lot of it's you're making it up as you go. And to me, I've just just when I see it. I know it, you know, and it's you may not know how to explain it to people. But like on that fully I had this, this really bold lime green pinstripe around the bottom edge of it. That was like electric, you know, and it's like I just started doing that might I knew I wanted like a green thing there. But it's like. It's, it's really bold. You don't. It's like you know what I really liked that most people probably wouldn't do that. Like, like this, you know, and it worked it in trying to bring a color from like the interior to the outside. Every people don't get that part. Yeah. And I always wonder too, if you could look back, how many miles of fine line tape do you figure out a car? That's another thing I try to tell people that have not like a light. They've, they're not they're not used to the expense of, of masking tape in fine line tape. I told him I'm gonna need about five hundred dollars just for fine line tape 'cause if I line. I mean when I started using fine line, it was like five bucks role. Now. It's like fourteen bucks role, you know. So. The material cost is gone way up. You know, but I go through I mean you could tell because I, I don't I am not a free hand pin striper by any means. It's like I didn't get into doing graphics until I was like in my thirties. So I didn't I didn't start out trying to do freehand stuff at all. It's like everything I was, I was always influenced by Scott solve and stuff that everything is so perfect and street that you can do that by mask and it off. And I'm like, well that's the answer there. I am not enough to do for him. So if you really wanna mess up your customers heads, I when I work at Billy B's, he would start keeping track of the tape. Buy just throwing the the extra role in the boat. He was working on every tape, it would just, you know, so I get in work in, like nine hundred rolls on masking tape, someone is like what is all that? That's just from this boat here. You need to do that when you're doing Greg. Just keep the rules in the cars when it come in, and it's like there's what I used on your car. For the amount you put on the car. However, I thought back like how much I pulled off of a car back in the ground to redo it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Equal. The core of the paint booth. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely you definitely gotta have like I've always had to have a like a fifty five gallon drum inside the paint. Boot that I can throw you know, even just even just paper you know, it's because a lot of time, it's just mask on a small area and spraying it and but you still have paper around it. And then you that's one thing that, that people ask me all the time is, like, well, can't you just mask at once and sprit and accounts for every single thing. And it's like I got unmask it. And look at it, you know, it's got to be able to see what I'm doing as I'm going. I can't I can't do like like a screen printing. Where do I can do? Exactly one color at a time mass. You know, your, like mass, the whole car, and then you just unmask these small areas to paint little things, I'm like, Nope, I unmask the whole car to stand back and look at it, so, lawyer, you should masking with, like silk shirts. This would be great. I was I was thought that was funny to try to explain to someone to where if you're building up a lot of colors and different areas as paint builds up on that paper eventually some that over spray dust settle into the paper. It's just running off of it. Yeah. It just I just want to thank you learn over time, what works, and what doesn't, or even what tapes, like, you know, just might make a same what we battle like, I'm sure you're used to it like any Inari spraying stuff is he's in, you know, there's nothing worse than spending a bunch of hours on airbrush work, and then the last time you mask back on top of it, it peels everything. All it's Fortius owning pretty disappointing. But I mean it's so it's heaving and I in there is no explaining why some jobs anymore. I try to sand every like you San the clear with six hundred like in the beginning I used to do because when I didn't know any better, I used to artwork, right? On top of base coat. And then I learned it's like, no, we need to we need to base the whole thing. Seal it with clear, Santa clear, will, then I, I would use like fifteen hundred or thousand while now I six hundred it's like, I know it's like you gotta give it some tooth to grab into, you know, and I, I just have way more luck with that. But then you always battle silver's for some reason silvers do not like to stick. There's just some brands of silver's that will not stick to anything that you do. It's like what the hell is it? What's overs? And I don't care if you use it. He's promoter. I don't care if you saying it with four hundred and Tyke their sewers or some silvers at just will not stick, and it's like God, demon put we always a grind it down to bare metal of air, you go just leave it bare metal right there. Know just over the years, you learn you learn steps at work better. It's like EPA have to reduce stuff one hundred times, and you finally learns a little bit, I guess, but anyway, I'm really into because I grew up in the sixties and seventies I'm really into medal lakes. And, and that type of you know, I still try to do at tasteful, but I try to incorporate at least like many flake in everything. And I like candies. I don't like how temperamental candies are for or how much build up, you gotta have to use them. You know. So it's like, Well, I, I can I like I like I really like fades, I really like you know, transitions try to make stuff look three dimensional. I think I'm more impressed by by the, the, the technical aspect of trying to make something look three dimensional and paint than in like having fancy paints like candy. Or or. One of my favorite things ever that I've never you know, that, like any time I go to CMO. You got all the low rider guys. The paint work on low rider cars or absolutely. The finest art work I've ever seen in my life. And I'm like these guys are absolutely his crazy. The amount of attention. They, they can do and, and just the murals in the stuff on like whole. So, always amazed by that one of my favorite buildings at Grand National. And I would never even build one of those cars, but I go through freesheet what we got. I gotta look at the, the quality of the work is unbelievable. Yeah. I don't even know one else K ask him I had a few things. Overwhelming do what you can do. So. Yeah. Well, it said the main thing is, like, you know, when I started out, I was I always drew cars, and then I got into doing airbrush stuff on cars, and then I got to do airbrush workout, some really nice cars, then I got metalwork on some nice cars. And so now I just that's what I like being able to, you know, I think when you're a kid, your idea is that you always want to be able to, to build a car, you know, so you try to figure out the best way to get into that part of it. And it's like I started out how I did. And now now that I'm at the age that I am. I've kinda gotten to the point where I can do. I certainly don't call myself an expert on everything. I can do a little bit of everything to a level that I'm, I'm happy with I would like to be faster at some of the stuff or I would like to be better at at more. I think you could never learn too much medal finishing or like Metalforming. I really appreciate guys like that. That can you know shrinking. Trek metal to create. A complete Fender for. Just about anything or an entire roofs skin. That just is, is all form. You know, like that amazes me to death. You know, it's like, I don't think I'll ever get to that in my lifetime. But I think the kind of cars that I that I wanna build at the point now or the exactly the cars that I'm working on. You know, it's like can I do good enough metal work to to get by with that, that most body guys, appreciate what you're doing that? They're not creating everything out of Bondo. So that's a step in the right direction anyway. So, but they're still like I said, the, the graphic part of it. I'm still interested in that part of it on the right cars. You know, I I wanna be able to do that on the cars that I'm involved with. I really don't wanna do that much on cars that are just that just come in just to do a graphic job. You know, but yet I say that and then but Toby works is bringing me, his, his Mustang to do the graphics arm. Nice. Oh, and he showed me that early. Drawing. I don't know if you saw that SIV Stamford did a rendering where the stripes, I it's basically the cars Magana, I never use the word pink, always say, magenta basically, the cars pink, and it's in. I think the stripes were like white or silver, but the stripes, I don't I don't know what you call that. It's not exactly a barcode. It's like what do you call that pattern? That's like the squares on the back of products anymore. You are code insulated thing. So the types are done with the correct. Pixellated barcode things for all the manufacturers that are involved in that car. So no, how cool that is. I mean, that is a typical Steve Stanford idea there. It's like to the average person walking up to it, it, it'll probably end up looking like digital camouflage, but it's actually that pixellated barcode thing that's going to be the idea for the stripes. And I think the pictures I've seen of it. Fellini didn't you do a drawing that car don't want early on to. Yeah. But it it was still the pink color. And I think it might have had different like when Steve hat would still want. Steve did it to get out of flat hood, like stack sticking out of the hood or something like that. Yeah. This hours to win with the rally stripes up at having like that. That's, that's the one that I remember seeing the idea for in. It's like man. I love that idea. So no matter what I do I think I'm gonna end up doing stripes at have that. But I also like the idea of how I used to do the ring brothers logos on the hood and just because that motor has a boss motor and pro charger, and all that it's like, well, it's gotta have some lettering, on the hood that sale that stuff, you know. It's our goal. I'm excited about that project because it's not going to be a simple, just two stripes, down it, and maybe looking make them look pixellated like those barcode things, but it's like no, it's going to be technically. Correct in that aspect. But yet, it's also going to have some boss motor lettering. And like pro charger something or other. And I really don't know at this point. I don't know what it's going to look like, but I just know it needs to be wild, because it needs a reminds you of the, the nineties pro streetcar thing. You know, it's, it's gotta have my nineties graphics on it. So I look at it so. Great editing. It'll be on car. I can't wait to see done. How do I thank you enough for coming out with us, man? Well, I'm, I'm glad that you call them. Good talked to you guys. It's like I think a lot of people don't really quite like I said, I don't I, I don't know if people know they probably think I'm younger guy than I am you know, it's like, because of the cars that I get to work on like, I'm not one of those on, unfortunately, I'm not one of those, those young guys building really cool stop. It's just I'm just an old guy. That's kind of been tinkering around this stuff my whole life. And, and I like to think that I've learned a few things, and, and I'm glad people liked it. And I just happened to be in the right place at the right time for a lot of it, you know, like with, with Choi, and Scott Sullivan and Joe Nichols. And all the guys ring rollers all guys that I got to work with and, and just all the guys that I used to work worth at Troyes. You know so that's why I look at it. It's like you can't go to college for that, you know, and it's like you just have to be in the right place at the right time. And. And you gotta have a passion for it. And, and you gotta starve, sometimes in you gotta work for so pretty pretty lucky and so, well, put thank you hang see sage words listener. That. That's what a lot of it. So it's out there. It is literally, the school of hard knocks. Yeah, yeah. And you find really quick. If you're gonna make it or not yellow when you think when you're at the lowest point think you're not gonna make it. It's what everything seems to come together. I think a lot of is just have been. He said in my case, I just always had faith in what I was doing. So he said, even at my lowest, which been there everybody's kind of in there, you still have faith in your. You're doing it for the right reason. And because because you did it's it's going to turn around. You know, it's not everything's not everything's temporary. Nothing's permanent whether it's success or failure, whatever. So he would even when the times were bad, I knew I'm doing good enough, stop that somebody's going to appreciate it. What was always appreciated move at least at least over here. I actually. I actually health. Whatever that's worth. I mean it's c-. My, my, my whole philosophy is always been, I doubt myself entire way. Well, yeah. Well, you know, that's I think that's the hardest thing is like, no matter what just being an artist. It's like you always question. It's like man that's part of it. It's like God. I do. I you know what the home doing? It's like then. But then when you actually get to see something done on such a high level of the kind of stuff that I got to work on. It's like holy crap. I can't believe I did that. I can't believe that, that they gave me the opportunity to do this. And that's how it turned out and, and other so much more to it like, like 'cause I'm not a body guy. I'm not really that much of a guy. I don't think complete cars and stuff. It's all the guys that do their job before I do mine. And then the guys come in after like the guards that, that, that, that clear in, in what saying in buffet buffet and spend one hundred hours, wet sandy Buchan something, you know. And, and then you even after that you gotta go back and mask it off to spray sat and clear over an area, you know, after it's what any buffed it's like there's so many. Hours and so, so many people that are experts at what they do that make your work. Look better, even better. You know that think it's almost like I get all the credit because I didn't hard work, but it's like leaving. I didn't do all this. It's like I did. I did this part of it. But these other guys did this other part you know, so you've been involved in so many. Yeah, I never actually added him up. It's like I mean between ring between like Troy's and the ring brothers. And like I just want thing we never talked about was Posey's. I did a lot of stuff proposing back in the day, and I would just fly out there on the weekends and do stuff. And it's like you talk about a character can federal Posey's this. Yeah. Just a just a great guy deputy has his opinion about what he wants but me and him always got along, really. Well, so one of the, you know, he's definitely got his his cars, whether you like them or not are very, it's very much his ideas. Exactly to t-, you know, so it was always fun. You know, awesome man will. Thank you. And I let you go heaven evening to yourself. So you can get up in the morning and look at some cool car. Yeah. Talked me. His pleasure to Bob say cancer. We'll talk to you later. Thanks. Great night. Yep. Man. What when you talk about having a guy who's done everything. And like I said at the beginning of the episode a renaissance man. Yeah. Right. There almost the Forrest Gump of hot Roddy? It's we've had last force. We've had met what is he? I guess the plural would be Gump's. We've had many Gump's becomes. Yeah. Those guys definitely multi multifaceted multi. He covers a lot of area. Man, and dude, if, if you listen to their please, send your get well cards to Brad at the round six pod, knockout. Dude, you muscled through man. I'm dying as testimony to how much Brad loves his fans. He's here. What do you have you have one hundred thirty six degree fever? Your win torch to berkey. Lows is my left foot fell off. Hey, I'm here. It's all good. Typhus typhus. I got that too elephant Titus. Orval hurts sin at the good kind. Elephant Titus of the lower intestine. The beans. Hell that means, but no, man. It was is really cool to have Bob on. And there's a dude. If you're not familiar with Bob's work, the moment you start to look up any cars men, especially to come rod rides and the rings of like the rue the really heavy hitting stuff to put everybody on the map chances are Bob's name, or hand are somehow attached to it, and maybe Brad's foot that fell. Find that may be somebody bids on one of those cars at an auction to get Brad's foot. Hang that from me, rear view mirror. That'd be great. But big thanks him for taking some time out talking to us like that. And shirt shared quite a bit of insight. I mean once again, one of the things we're really fortunate to bring you guys are guests who can share their path through the industry, and there's a lot to learn their many just even from, you know, obviously being in the right place at the right time. Big deal for that guy. But it's kinda funny to trace how a certain look for hot rods over the years can all be traced back like one or two people. It's really funny man. Right. And while man, I this is going to be one of the episodes where hey Scott, if you're listening to this one, that's a good thing. You don't have a cage near characters man, you would never fit that head in here. All to respect man. It's funny it's funny to look back and see how you can trace certain things in this industry back to one dude. That, that's, that's a really cool ill, man. Pay its course about what that assured on there. You go that guy. Right. Well, you know, I wonder if he's still picking some, you know, some of that being out of his back here. I never knew John Oates was a painter. That I ever knew. John was singing. John was painting. Does he play the Tamarine while he's painting or is it just a snags things? The gun puts a with a ball bearing in the Cup. Just it's good. Okay. I think you're confusing. John Oates with Garfunkel. For sees snapping his finger. He's doing the these fingers. Song. So singing man eater. Yeah. There you go. That's one for you. Scott. Well, thanks. Brad, go to bed. And I hope that you try to fall asleep, and all you can think of as the song man eater. That's fantastic. I will watch out here. She comes. Watch out boy, she'll show up. Who the hell writes that you'll find my left foot? I don't I don't. Key dow. Well big. Thanks again. Once again, are continuing sponsor our good friends over trailer tug, give them a visit at trailer, tug dot com and learn more about the world's strongest trailer Dali and. Listeners to the podcast, you just for being Hugh, you get a ten percent discount at checkout, or when phoning your order in by using these special code, round six so good, I knew say and you thought listen, this was just a total waste. And for those of you who have taken part in our, you know, beg, for round, six stickers, promotion, Fiamma way, it, what do you do for around? Six figure. We should have that. Yeah. What would you do within sir? Do we really want to do that? Yes. Fire because our group is a whole trays easier than that other group, from the, you know, from the actual TV commercial. So this is true. We don't we don't want to say send nudes Brad. No, no, no, no, no, don't. We're not doing that. The fuller frontal the better. I don't wanna get those emails, but it okay wait. In the podcast. Bob had talked about the, the idea of won a Harry Bradley's ideas, where when you design a car, make it looked like a wedding dress. Here's a better one. I five people send a photo. Brad of themselves wearing a top a mini skirt. Six. Would stick with the get. Oh, that's up. We'll choose those, I think I think it's time to make another bitch stickers. We're going to have to, and you're gonna be you're gonna be inundated with all kinds of pictures of dudes from the midwest working. I sure hope not. Scott wherein that thank you, Brian for being the kind of friend. You are gonna thank you were, then I want you to be well, entertained, while you recuperate and Alex. Thank you for backing me up on that, when I wanna thank you for that, too. Oh anytime. What is our credo here in the group gang up on the one who's weakened? That's right. The week. It's pretty much. Hey, Eric back to man eater. That will be Brad. Intense thick. And watch this one go right down. We said, we're gonna let you go to bed. All right. Well, this episode obviously not brought to you by Robitussin. Yeah. Obviously, but send your thoughts prayers and get well messages to Brad over on our Facebook page. And yeah. At the end of this episode. I have got to say, I am a slightly more sparkley Brian. Oh, I am an absolutely covered in masking tape brands. And I am a thrashed Alex foot, a good kind of thrash. Wow. That was almost too easy MIR I thought you guys are going to swipe my idea. So I'm like out. We go again. Right. Can you at least you didn't say you're mandating Alex? Well, yeah. Hold different podcast. Hours, right? Thanks again for listening. We totally can't see how much we appreciate you guys. And when grown quite a bit lately, in it's because of you. Thanks for spreading the word. And thank you so much. Truly. Yes. Thank you, without you guys would just be us listening to ourselves. And that's. Really sad when he get down to it, and we're not to go the right now. I'm going to go cry. Now. Wait, you cry. I'm gonna go be sparkly. You'll be thrashed and. Catch you guys next time. Thanks again for listening and be sure to keep up with those gear heads over on our website at WWW dot round six pod dot com. And if you'd like to we invite you to follow along with us over on Facebook, Instagram and be sure to check out all of our latest videos on YouTube dot com. Big. Thanks, once again to our sponsor trailer. Todd please visit them at trailer, tug dot com and learn more about the world's strongest trailer Ali our listeners receive ten percent off the order. When use the discount code, round six at checkout, or one calling the order in.