Freedom From Perfectionism with Motherkind Founder Zoe Blaskey
Hello and welcome to the ghetto. Global cost a wellness. pocos to help you get your playback. I'm joined Today Day by the Wonderful Zoe. lasky founder of the mother platform a mother kind. podcast which the Telegraph has referred to as the antidote as to the toxic perfectionism of the modern motherhood mother kind is a self empowerment platform for MOMS three mother kind. Zoe helps a diverse range of women to navigate the many challenges of Modern Motherhood on today's episode. We spoke all about why perfectionism is such an issue for moms and what we can do about it. How she is reframing self calf from bubble baths to self connection house who identify and set boundaries and how to create space for our children region to experience emotions? I accede loved Charleston. Zoe edlund so much for my with high. I think this is one of my favorite pok cost episode side so I am so excited to shatters episode teas. So let's bring on the Wonderful Zoe. Welcome Zoe to the punt car south. Thanks so having made it took us a little while to get that but we are ahead together. Yes we're GONNA be talking about perfectionism in my head which I think is a really interesting pat but before we dive into that. I would love to hear your story of how you started your mother Podcast and platform and coaching coaching. How did it begin? Yes so how did it all began and say I was a longtime into the my especially called healing work and self development when I became pregnant and I had this really really super weird experience where I found myself on an island off Sweden doing this Condo leany pregnancy pregnancy yoga training and I honestly it was one of those really we woo guided that I'd never done kindling before ever and and I didn't know you had to wear white so all the throws the black can I was basically literally the black sheep on this training but finding myself there with forty other women and on this week long training and it was called a yoga training but it was really a conscious motherhood and birth training and it totally changed my view of motherhood it and how I entered motherhood and how I handled that first year. TIC- changed it in miraculous ways and I already. I was really into meditation. I was already a trained coach but I still found it really really really hard and I actually couldn't believe it points How hard and I couldn't believe that lots of people weren't talking about it was quite different? This was four years ago now. I think there's a different conversation but four for years ago. The conversation online around motherhood was very much around starting your own business or what to buy. Or what where or how to feed or and why not. It was the as coming among lots of old stuff was coming up for me. odd pain lots of old coping mechanisms. So I'd worked really hard on things like my perfectionism. My people pleasing my into critic. You worked really hard on healing those through my twenties and I found that they came back with avengeance. Pike's as exhausted so I started to look for this type of conversation and I didn't find it and I remember a friend of mine saying well. Maybe maybe you could start that conversation because you've got all this training you've done all this work on yourself you know. I'd been in twelve step recovery twelve years at that point so I was pretty pretty steeped in well-being Meditation Teacher and so I had lots of tools things that I wanted to talk about and my first that was no way. I'm not going to start. Ah Come from a corporate background. I felt like it's just not me a donut hook about myself that publicly. That's really a key to do that. Who am I yeah? Well that stuff came up but yeah again just like doors. Opening things happening. I ended up. Starting the PO- costs I us and our recorded six episodes and I told myself I would record them. I didn't have to put them out like my bugging with myself so I recorded the big names right did have big names yes ha. I didn't tell them them. I might have been so yeah and then obviously enjoyed it a lot and say put the first six episodes our and then it's gone from there and it's been about two and a half years now so that's it in a nutshell. It's been quite an epic adventure and south carries something that I think we're hearing more or more about what does it mean to you. And how has it changed since you become a mother. I think it's really great thing that the conversation is elevated around South Cam. We hear a lot south. Can I talk about is not like bubble bath. Spa Days is not nails done. It's not head it's naught evenings out with your friends because Mum's those things will take time and money and we have neither of those when we become the lovely Leo humans draining our time and our money. Say the self. Can I talk about self connection so I teach five minutes self. Healthcare tools are more about self connection. Says a forty five second check-in I teach where you just check him with how you're feeling takes. Forty forty five seconds and from there you might realize. Actually I'm really thirsty. I need to drink a glass of water and actually what I see is loads of. Mums is being dehydrated which causes anxiety. Especially when we're tired already made us even more tired. Another really important. Part of self care that I'm really evangelical about boundaries. So I see loves of MOMS. You know unable to say no to things doing things that don't work for them because they don't a how to say no and how to use boundaries in their life and that just drains our energy so we can do all the self care quote unquote in the world. But if we're then saying yes to everything thing and running ourselves rugged batteries gonNA drain really really quickly. So that's one of the really big self-care things is around boundaries. And saying no and and looking after yourself and also you know you're really into this. Obviously Gotthelf I say is when we become busy moms. We're grabbing sugary we. Snacks aren't way and actually there has a massive impact on on mood because we know now that ninety percent of Serotonin is made in the gut. It's not made in the brain as we thought for a long long long all the time so I think that's nice simple things that we can do that fit in within our day that are not about having a spa day. Every six six months in the diary that is not going to help. It's about every day. Yeah mazing love. It's about how can you find really tiny little practices things that you might be doing already. The forty five second check in often teach clients. I I'm coaching and I do. When you look at your drive at your freak out just a quick check in and how do we do? That is like a body scan or talk us through this forty five. It is very very very simple is just hands on heart and it's just connecting eighteen with your breath just night saying what your breath is like. In this moment. This might be the first time today. You've actually stay connected with yourself. So breath is likely to be shot is likely to be coming from your chest. So we want today was slightly elongate breath to make it longer. DE-PA you might wants may exile even longer astill and I will just calm everything down now a feeling a bit more grounded now. We want to ask self really simple question. What do I need might be a phrase you might just need to hear? You're doing a great job you might need to hear it K- we might think I'm star. Thank thank just asking yourself that question. And that is the forty five second check so it may be that you cannot me me that need instantly. Maybe something came up quite big but the most important thing is that you're checking in with yourself because when we don't do our feelings we need don't go away what happens. Is they come out sideways for some people that might light numbing. Behavior stuffing sugar or go onto instagram. Or yeah three glasses of wine at night or compulsive exercising or might let other behaviors semi elect snapping. It might not finding really overwhelmed or anxiety tapie and often all of that be this lack of connection that we have with ourselves coming out sideways. They call it coming out and other ways because on needs are needs AIDS. We can't avoid that we have needs as moms. It didn't go away when we become a mom is thinking. How can we fit in everything that we've got to do but also ourselves and it really connects? Your intuition doesn't it. I think with health and wellbeing often. We think our copy. What that person's doing that peasant eating or living living? But actually you should be. Awesome yourself what you need not movement rather than just copying someone else. Yeah and it's really easy to do that because he he always worked for her. Maybe it will work for me but we are all say so offices now but we're also unique. Needs we all carrying different things tomorrow. childhoods you know some people might find it really easy to do this. Some people might find it a massive stretch depending on what their beliefs are about themselves whether Southworth is if they had this model to them or not. So it's really about self knowledge self awareness and then thinking about okay. What do I need to look after myself myself? As opposed to just copying someone else and he talks about boundaries. Before how can we set more strict boundaries so that we're not overdoing it and exhausting. So the quickest way to no way you need to southbound dri is where you feel resentful so if you feel Camilla a historic to no matter if you feel pissed off with someone in your life. I'm a person might be yourself. Maybe your mom and law might be best friend might be a boss. Might be your child even often most often is because you need to set of boundary so resentment tends to come up where we feel like a victim where we feel like someone is doing something to me so of course the response needs to be. What do I need in this situation if you're working late every single night and you are hating your job and you're hating your boss? If I was working with you I would say it's your responsibility to set your boundaries. What is the boundary around tiny finishing work? And how can you make that happen or it may be with a mom in law you know who keeps popping in unexpectedly for example and every time that happens you might be seething inside so I would say that's not how she has no idea area. What's your boundary? Do you need to say to her in. We doesn't work for me. I'm going to need two days. Notice need two days notice or actually I need two weeks of you not popping in whatever that boundary might light but the key is to look for what you feel resentful way you feel pissed off. That's where you need to set about. Andris I love. Pat Is really interesting. I've never in that way but I think that's fantastic. Page via it cuts through of their war is this boundary word. The gets more and more which is fantastic but it can cut through some of the confusion and then it's thinking about okay. What might that boundary like? And how do I communicate. It's not the easy the stuff particularly. If we haven't been modelled it yes modeled. I mean we didn't witness our caregivers people around us engaging behavior we might have seen our own mums boundary less running ragged saying. Yes when they know taking on too much we might have witnessed that behavior early to repeat so we hawed awed if we had that experience to do this absolutely so talking of mother head perfectionism seems to be the goal go often the where searching for and I think with the rise of social media. It's become big. I mean I might be wrong. But I've Ernie Green Line up as a mother with social media prevalent T me. Why are we putting pressure on us? How how can we kind of break break this down is there such things? Perfectionism looked hairport. Because I knew each week a lot of butter. Professors is one of my big things that I love to share. I'm actually putting out a course about it because I feel safe hashing. I want to help mums because being a mom is hard enough right. I think is the hardest this job in the world particularly as you're sharing like in the environment that we're parenting and our parents did not have to deal with the pace that we live in they did not have how social media to contend with typically it was only in the recent history fifty two hundred years that we live like this isolated in urban communities often on streets where we don't know anyone miles away from our families this dynamic is new. It's our generation possibly possibly couple before us who are grappling with these things so perfectionism is one of those things that we are making it so much harder for us. Her abs the striving for these ideals so we can sometimes think about perfectionism. As like I want the House to look Nice I want meat. Let Nice I want the baby. To let nice is that but it's actually a bit deeper than that so perfectionism is really about not feeling good enough which is quite a change in some people might think of like when I share that a lot of people go. Oh my God. I'm perfectionist. I had no idea they'll say I'm so messy. I comment perfectionist. And I'll say but do you feel that your enough regardless of what you achieve now say absolutely no I saw that is one of the major qualities of a perfectionist. Is that we feel that just as we are. That's not enough. We have to achieve something outside of ourselves and chief could look like anything. It might like people pleasing having laser friends in my life having a Immaculate House. It might look like having an immaculate child it might look like smashing at work or having the perfect marriage acquire. It could come out in any areas but really what we're seeking is validation outside of ourselves because we feel enough as we are. Aw so the problem with that. We have this feeling that I'm just not good enough. Is that then. We start engaging in behavior to get that foundation and that's where all of the burn out in the exhaustion and the guilt and the shame and the inner critic starts to come from. So you'll know you're a perfectionist because he will tend to not let yourself celebrate anything that you do you'll tend to focus quite quickly. What went wrong? You'll tend to have a massive Asif fear of failure so you might find it hard to start things. You might find it hard to finish things and I know that was a massive issue for me instill is ironically on the profession. Of course I'm writing. I'm finding it really hard to predict how. How could you write about it if you didn't know exactly what you have to aren't covering perfectionist? So this is how to study but a lot of is from an experience so some of the Kasich behavior. Modern Motherhood is like comparison. As we're we're going to talk about listening to this raging critic saying you're not good enough. You didn't get that right. It can be tiny things like. That meal wasn't good enough that you cooked for your friends or really big things that you're not good enough mom. So it's pretty horrible to live with this perfectionism. It's a really hard way to live. And that's when my passion comes from helping mom see absolutely get enough just as you're just as you are. You don't need to do anything to be worthy to have have self worth just because you're here on this planet as a human you have worth and how can we start to heal part of us. Yes so this is uh-huh go well. The first thing is awareness right so we can't change what we're not aware of mcanuff McCain attributes them so the first thing is understanding does this fit. I'm a perfectionist. And is this a problem for me. And you'll know it's a problem problem for you if you tend to feel. Burn out if you tend to feel overwhelmed long time if you do have this critic telling you that you're not good enough and you need to try harder indefinitely and you're kind to yourself okay. That then you got that awareness. So it's the first step that awareness. The second step is having some self compassionate some kindness around the awareness. What we can sometimes do it? And if you do this but I'll have a new awareness and then I'll beat myself up about that. Oh my God like how can I be so the next step his compassion and that compassion comes from. Where did this come from so I did quite a bit of work? It doesn't take long to figure out. Where did this come from? I'm like what did I get muddled to me growing up. was I really praised when I got things right. Did I see maybe my mom or my dad or my family engaging in this type of behavior what happened to me at school. What messages did you get about what it takes to be really loved you know? I know that three knife of my own. My the parents taught me that I had to be achieving to beloved. So of course I go into my adult life becoming a massive workaholic. Because that's how I thought I needed to get love afoot to be successful and so that gave me loads of awareness again but say compassion. I I get this comes from and then it's about starting to think about about changing behavior so looking at what areas in your life. This perfectionism really shows up. And I see it really showing around motherhood and guilt and just not not feeling good enough and then it's about changing that dialogue with yourself so getting to know what critics has to you crack kissing not listening to us the truth. It'll fill out the truth. If you've been living with that critic for years it will feel like the truth. It's not and that's where you're going to be practicing. I teach my clients to disconnect from that thought. And it's just a thought not real but what we tend to think it's a real. No I really am not good enough. I really do need to feel guilty. I'll say no no. No I thought the reality is could you think of Kinda reality South and then I'll say what would you say to a good friend. He was late nursery. Backup up and we can instantly say. Don't worry about it. You've any been late once you've picked him up hundreds of times early. You stressed at work. He didn't mind. We confined the kind reality for our friends. Real easily. Say what will start to develop that kind of critic so that we can ourselves of the could bear and then practicing new behaviors so where we might have like run ourselves rocket for example cooking up something organic for the play day we might think yeah. I'm just going to go to the market and buy something and it's okay so letting ourselves off the hook practicing saying no where we need to practicing boundaries. He's trying new behavior all the time noticing. What feelings are coming up with your trying new behavior because what might come up his fear fear of judgement Around that play day or something wrong or hang not a big opportunity at work. Because you know it's GonNa cost you. And then continuing to practice those behaviors using tools like gratitude gratitude trying to switch your mindset to focus on what you're doing right on what you're doing wrong and doing some daily check ins like we. We did the forty five second check in doing that every day so you don't let this behavior continue to run rampant because when we're aware the behavior naturally starts to change amazing. The thing is I love it fresh because I'm just I just finished writing the course like it's very fresh on my mind and I imagine this takes time right. It's not like you hear this. You instantly put into action and you've changed. It's a habit right for the seventies show. It is a habit so everything that I teach is about keeping it super simple no more than ten minutes a day ever. Because if you're trying to do ten minutes a day is a busy mom you're gonNA fail. Let's be honest. Whatever it is and then you're GonNa say failure and then your esteem is going to get lower so so everything that I teach and I do MOMS is super simple? I start my coaching pants with two minutes day practices so they're always achieved them. And then I start to feel great and you notice the differences and then you build on it. That's how habit change works. Say with this 'cause ever with everything that I teach. It's no more than ten minutes a day and absolutely takes time and it's a daily practice like I know a if I'm not doing a little bit of check in would first second check in or if I'm not journaling or if I'm just getting T- busy would tyler overwhelmed. I wrote my best critic starts raging at me. I'm like one A. M. Tidying House stuff which is really old for me. But that's where I go if I thanks David to it so yes it takes time. But that's not a bad thing. That's a positive thing because in a way this self development and working on ourselves which you talk about and you're passionate about it's a way of life life. It's not something that you do your light tick what's next. It's a way of being with ourselves forever. I think part of life's purpose absolutely. Yeah how about comparison. I think often you doing things right. You've set the boundaries in mother-in-law's coming around the smart you sorted. Then you see all glamorous Mama Eater rocking the most peaceful outfit with her perfectly. Done up children and they've just gone to a farm or whatever whatever's GonNa make you feel like you're not doing enough activities looking certain well whatever your trick is aw how can we instead of Leeann. Go US something wrong with me. Go Awhile I'm learning something that looks like a coup farm. ooh that Tauplitz ready cozy. I'd love to see if I could buy as well. How do we kind of changed the story ahead? That's going on. I mean that's hard to do. It depends on what emotional state. You're in so if I am feeling insecure if I've had a really rough week where maybe Jesse's watched way too much poor patrol. I will really try and not be scrolling on instagram. Because I am going to see stuff that's GonNa make me feel bad about myself so I think we have to take responsibility for who we're following thing when we're consuming it based on our own internal state is if you feel bad and you go on instagram. Pretty much guarantee. You're not gonNA come off that scroll feeling better. The other thing is never compare your insights. So how you are feeling to someone else's out how they're presenting thing right because it is a highlight reel and we hear this all the time but I know at the peak of my pain and my dysfunction in my early twenty s before my breakdown I looked. It's like I had it nailed and people have said to me we compared to you. You know degree from Amazing Union. I landed this really. Prestigious job had amazing friends. I was doing great stuff. My life lurked stellar right. And I'm sure people who said they compared to me on the inside. I was absolutely dying saying horrendous. Horrendous thoughts feelings couldn't cope so I think that's really important to remember telling him how you feel. Oh with someone else looks and what I would also say. Is that often. The people the icy presenting in the most perfect Smiley Lee way are often the people who are feeling the most insecure and lost there is a truism in that because when we're feeling like we don't want to be vulnerable. There's a reason so I think it's really about watching how you're doing and who your following while you're following them and and just not comparing how you feel to how they look and I guess that's another checking in and strengthen your intuition is ye would because sometimes times. It's just a reflex. Isn't that your phone seventy. Open you sunny on instrument. I didn't think I even consciously made decisions. Twenty minutes scrawl and I can hear my husband gag male. I usually. It happens A. K.. Often I notice when I'm doing that law. It's because because I'm avoiding myself on numbing. That might be something going on. I'm not quite ready to process yet. We're all notices. I'm grabbing my phone. INSTAGRAM and sation media such a brilliant way to avoid ourselves. It's like genius. It's like designed to take us out of ourselves and we can feel right. We're connecting with others. Which of course? We aren't really say what it's about is if you notice your habitually grabbing your phone for hours on end or you're doing it quite mindless unconsciously. That's crowd say. Do that check in. See what's really going on. It's the same with eating. Isn't it like before you go to eat that twentieth. Cookie dough at quick check. It like what is going on with me here. Why avoiding is there something that I need to tend to his are feeling when I need to fail or something? In my diary I need to move or attempts to quite quite simple things. But that's what I mean we're talking upfront. About coming out sideways. We daily on needs. We will do things to avoid so. That's definitely in what happens to meet with instagram. I know lots of others. So it's the awareness do you have boundaries with D.. Switch off with family time or have you had to set boundaries to the south. Because you know we're in a similar position while at our businesses are online and it's a big part of what we do so it's put and kind of eliminated but do you have a way of managing it. Yeah and I think I take responsibility. I've made a choice to have a business that In both social media. So that's the first thing is that I felt I could victim to it. That's my active choice. And any moment I could choose to turn off by don't say boundaries really important so so I don't go on before nine A. N. 'cause I'm with Jesse and then I try not gone after nine pm by day very imperfectly. Because if for example like I've had alerts and messages and because it's like because of the things that I talk about on a podcast and get a lot of very vulnerable people. Asking me is part of my responsibility to sign post or to help where can or so. Sometimes I might have to after nine pm if I haven't got to it that day but generally generally yes. I tried to be quite boundary with my big boundaries. If I am feeling bad which which is what I was just saying. I won't Scroll I will post on my page. Sure prior to comment on my page and that will be it because that the two are not linked have to be scrolling. In order to be working I can work on my message on my page on what I think people my community want to hear from me. I don't need a looking other people's had something the other day which is really health which was creates before consume and as. I really liked that because I can find. Is that if I do do that. scrolling thing our start filled. I've got nothing to say. Everyone is saying so much better than me. Everyone is so much more intelligent than me on this stuff. agonise say and the truth load to say you know that's the truth. That's my critic sick coming out so I now in less. I've thought about say that day or that week. If I'm planning it then I might look at other people's but it needs like constant management right. This can be really tricky. I think the CREPE flea conceive is fantastic really good boundary to and an and. I think that I will definitely on the head. It's not mine so I call credit the person but I read. I listen into so much I'm like I can't remember where I've heard it. But it's non original sewing but as you can take yeah. Do you think. Parenthood food is harder now with social media or easier. I think it's harder actually but I think that's partly because of the timing around and the emergence of social media. What happened on a societal level where we've lost a lot of the support? We've lost village as Mother's funding cuts. We've lost love. Children Children Centers. We lost a lot of midwifery support that we had lost of health is that we had so. I think mainly. It's a timing thing brand that generation that we are on the societal pressures that we're parroting under right now but I do think for Shaw that it used to be if you think about it before. If you wanted to compare yourself you could only way to compare yourself to the people that you knew that he would know that truth pretty much. You would know like Jane Down The road because you had a crime the other day so she looks great right now now we can see more be honest as doing with her daughter on a yard not just would never have been accessible accessible to US thirty years ago so I think it has made it harder thing the other thing. That's made it harder as so many moms. Thank you know a lonely. Because we're isolated so did a survey recent ever thousand Mum's about social media some perfectionism and this one stat just really stood out for me which is compared to their premium selves. So nothing has changed other than they've become a mother just that minor thing. Mums spending on average of the thousand that we survey three hours twenty six minutes long online every day every day at the I pay for a week in a month. This is a lot of hours and I get it because we're in our himes alone the hour looking for connection. But what's so often we find when we look for connections comparison. The other thing thing is we're looking on forums working on. Maybe the mums nats. Were looking for advice but what you tend to find on those types of forms extremes okay you very rally find. The people posting a very balanced middle ground view. What you tend to get? This is the way and it's the only way and if you do it any other way you're going to destroy your oh child all the opposite even with like weaning peering all you tend to write it just makes both. It doesn't matter so much. Just enjoy it. You don't intend to get on the forums so I think it's quite dangerous and I think again it's like an example of how much harder it can make it but for sure we're ah for connection and I think influences another whole nother conversation of this massive rise of the mummy influence they're making significant amounts of monies by selling products to us that we may or may not need may or may not be right for our baby and our children and our lives. So I think for sure. It's made it harder a known as a conversation tation around is hasn't made it easier. I feel pretty clear. I think I think it's harder. Do you think stops us from reaching out. Got To people as well because we're like. Oh well I can kind of see what my friends are doing. And I can see that. Mommy bloggers up to the I almost need to then meet up with all myself out. I think so and I think something that we can forget. What's up is social? Media would come into the category of social media about Youtube. Babe when I was like coffee is a whole other conversation. Managing what's up is like this need a fulltime here. I think you know I I would find my friends. I would walk home. Phone my friends. I very rarely find my friends today. Because we're on what's up groups. We're tapping away all the time and it's a totally different connection when we're speaking with someone you can't compare the two so I think remembering the things like what's up is social issue media. This is new. We didn't have and I think especially as MOMS whatever stage of motherhood where we need that connection with other women of the parents are friends. We really need. I think we getting yet. Because we're what's out grades because we're on instagram. We're in the DMZ where emailing emailing whatever we're doing sending video is sending gifts but we're not really connecting. I really force myself now or I found a friend day. Sometimes it's sweetheart and got time or they might have pick. They might not pick up. I really make sure. That's part of my self connection and self care practice. Actually because I will say so much more in such different way. We'll have such a connecting conversation particularly when we can't always me as we're working and so yeah. Yeah I think we need more one on one connection. That's proven in studies on loneliness. A really really stock. Yeah and it's so important and I think sometimes we think oh it's not as important as the GM and eating organic batch the equally if not more. Yeah well I had this the other day. Hi from Dr Ranjan Chatterjee cigarettes about cigarettes. Yeah I'm trying to remember and I think it was. What was it? I think it's being lonely as the Carlos Making Twenty five sixty ninety day dancing. It's something same impact on your in the link below and I I had to toss you the last week so his Upside will be out. I can think not pallone. I think he mentioned again in the episode. Because he's crazy isn't an I think we will maced raced not given the time that does and I think sometimes it's quite easy to put off is an particularly for feeling bad about ourselves like it Kinda like one of my coping tools from childhood is isolation. So if I feel at or I'm feeling not goods and I'm just feeling a little bit off my first port of call often. We'll be to isolate interesting so I will not wanNA reach how I wait one. Answer my phone. I want to go on that play where I want to do is just beyond my own whereas actually what I need is the opposite and I think you know what Dr Tashiro saying which makes sense right. We're tribal say that when we're on our own or isolated our nervous systems. Think that something's wrong wrong. So they go into flight freeze we would lease co two saw mullany. Which of course is the stress hormone which is why we get the equivalent of of smoking cigarettes a day damage on our health? So I think it's going to become more and more of something that we talk about particularly for months and particularly tickly for new moms because if your baby is breastfeeding every hour it's really hard to get out. Like I remember weeks Jesse especially if she was there I was there Louis Resorts do. I just wouldn't get out enough. Then you can start to feel really low and then into those negative effects so is really important. Commit to connect in real life. I imagined that you have lots of different practices the About the forty five second checker and audio. Kind of non negotiable practices that you do every day every we can't be year. Yeah okay so I have three a day but they don't take any more than fifteen minutes because who. Who has the time for any more than that? So I do five minutes of meditation. Sometimes it's team in it but that's just as good and then I'll do the forty-five check in a couple of times a day. Just as unlike what's going on with me as I feel Monaco Mad I say do some journaling every day so that really does is just helped me get my crazy thoughts. I have a mind is wide for fear case in my mind if left John Chapter is going to tell me the Jesse's not okay. I'm not okay. Lives my okay and I need to panic. That's my absolute core. Say why have to do is get those thoughts out. Just scribble them out often on paper and then I can see them for. They are and I get perspective so I make sure that I do that for five minutes every day. It used to in the morning morning before Jesse now obviously is not an option so it tends to be just whenever I can just grab. How do I feel so write myself a question if I'm struggling? How do I feel what's going on? What my avoiding? It's really powerful question to ask myself. What do I need to see what comes up? What sort of is coming up for me? And that's always super insightful. And then the third thing is a gratitude list so I try them right at least twenty things from that day not like generally the. I'm grateful grateful for because what that does is. Our minds are wired negativity bias means the almonds a wired to look for. What's wrong okay? It's just we can't do anything about that. So if we don't redress the balance what's going to happen is. We're going to start to feel that everything in our lives Israel so the grass she practice is so simple. But that's sweats powerful because we just don't notice all the incredible things. This is a viable technique. Our brains have that want us to focus on what's wrong case. We you have to take action. But there's amazing things happening every single moment of every single day but we miss them so I make myself right at least twenty. Not and it's amazing. How quickly those twenty flow just little things? I would have forgotten Nina and the cute dog in the part that I saw that little small that Jesse gave me or the lovely cookie. The maddie's just giving me go on tonight. Say I would Miss Forget about the beautiful moments that made life worth living so those is my three things. I love that really interesting. You talked about fair and I think it's probably not something people talk enough about maybe more in community but we kind of fish but maybe no and day to day and I personally have become more fearful so since becoming a mother and I don't think I was a very fearful pass and maybe I think as women we are more fearful we're more likely to be attacks and all these different things that I think we're told us women were a little bit more vulnerable on the whole but as a mother I think the thoughts or something bad happening to me is terrible for something about how many to my child is beyond comparible. How can we become less last fearful because that's actually something? I've been really contemplating recent years. Like how can I move out of the state of fair and these kind of sorts affairs And move into a more kind of state of love and ease with a festival says totally normal. I don't think there's a mother he doesn't think Oh my God this person I love more than it was possible than I thought I could love. What would happen Ernest? Something happened. What happened or something happened to me? I think every single parent feels feelings. Things these thoughts and again I had someone on the podcast recent. It's not out yet about intrusive. Thoughts in motherhood. You know if I drop my baby totally normal but we just don't talk about it enough. The first thing I would say is you probably can't stop those fearful thoughts I think there are a byproduct of how much we love our children children and when that much vulnerability comes up because nothing more vulnerable than nothing our children as much as we do right. We'll love in general love in general. So you're going to have half-days fearful thoughts and I know a lot of people have by their partners to when they cycle to work on my God they gonNa fall off the bike or they're gonNA workshop and not come back or it's just a sign I think income how open our heart is that part of us wants to protect ourselves so I would say you probably Never GonNa change those thoughts Saray Ra but the key is not hooking into them. Do you know what I mean not allowing them to riddler exactly so if you think of of your thoughts as like a branch betray you could have a thought as you put shadown which is like Oh my God what happens if he stops breathing tonight McCain. I know a lot of MOMS have that. So what would happen if I check them in an hour and he wasn't breathing. Okay so you can have. That thought the next thought might be. Oh my God how would I wrote Witha Thatta. The next time I'll be on my all be my fault because I put him down roller. I haven't checked out all my God and then I might get done for manslaughter. All all my God and then everyone might leave me and I might be on. The front of the demand. Is the woman who helped her. Baby right this is whereas thoughts can go. His mind wasn't also mind. My thoughts of me like you're going to be on the front of the Daily Mail. has this mom who liked it. The worst thing ever lets like my thought lights to her conto onto that fair house more relates otherwise. I'm going to feel like a total where I was sure. So that is where I can go on from there we are. We're going to be then experiencing art we're going to be experiencing some cortisol about a chess. Might be tightening heart. Might be beating. We might then change our behavior behavior. We might think I'm just going to sit next to the cart or the bed and I'm just GonNa Watch or the baby wants to cling onto the Monitor. Okay in a way. There's nothing wrong with that but if you're doing that night after nine you're buying antiques fearful thought it's GonNa feel hard. You're going to be exhausted. Those types of thoughts drain our energy and they make us feel anxious so I would say when I have those thoughts is I just tend to think it just shows how much I love Jesse Okay Learning Not oh to heck into it and then my might throw another thought back that you love her so much. What if something does happen to her? And then I might say you know I trust I trust the GonNa GonNa be well. I trust the all is going to be well. She's healthy. She's not ill tonight. I might say something really kind or more in reality so then I might be feeling a bit Sitcom or and I might see then switched my Rushdie practice. I might be like look. We'll eyelids. We'll look Chaska for down or and then I might might be able to leave the room and I might be able to then feel calm relaxed and so I think it's about stopping those thoughts. I think they're pretty normal standard time to do I add around vulnerability opening our hearts birthing. The key is learning Nazi branch off into thousands of other tasteful thoughts about can we catch them notice. What's going on? Have Compassion for ourselves. This is because I love her so much we love him so much and then coming back to more place at ease calm and reality which is the is very rare. Thank goodness that these horrific things that we imagine. Actually we come to pass very very very rare just talking to you as helping me so much. How can we support parents to parent current successfully? 'cause I think total about loneliness and tribe in the importance of the village. How can we help by the parents? I mean some big question. It's multi faceted. I actually think we need a totally new way of looking at. I think a lot of the behaviors that we got tour and modeled growing up open that our society perpetuates do not help us. Comparison competitiveness not feeling good enough. All those things. If you foments is to grandma run on about this a lot. I do think we need a total change with a lot of how we talk about parenting and supporting parents. But I think the main thing is is is making it really small to start with so maybe just asking a friend how she's doing and holding space for that friend so what we can so often do is ask a friend how she's doing and she might say I'm really struggling and then we might say. Have you tried all our when that happened to me I did this. Have you read this book or have you seen this podcast. And that comes from sucked good place but I think the best place to start with supporting parents is just holding. Oh feelings for each other so that sounds really hard. What is there anything that you need? Is there anything I could help you with because so often we just WanNa fix because we don't like the a discomfort someone's timeframe is being pain so I think it's dying really small with things like that can we just be more open to each other's feelings and Leeson one that someone can come to however that feeling and know that they're not gonna get fixed or judged or have resources schefter which isn't really we WANNA ever. We really just want to be heard just the same as children and their feelings they just WanNa be heard. There's a massive thing that we need to change. But actually that's making really micro and simplicity. Conceivable is just hope space reach and I guess it's listening as well which is kind of similar to holding space. I think it's something I'm learning definitely definitely I'm probably Passan's like have you tried this. And he said it comes from a good sign should play. Actually it's actually nor the peasants asking you for their king fee for your time and your Karen to be had just WanNa be heard whereas when we start with the have you tried ride or the at least you or you should. What we're really saying is I know better than you and you should not validated? You're not validated. Did actually you need to sort this. His how and that doesn't feel good to be on the receiving end of that. What feels really good is phrases like that? Sounds really hard awed just saying that and then being quiet again sounds really hard. It's such a light validating phrase. What do you need God what I can imagine that if are gone through you know might have fout re decide how you feeling? Different conversation is no that such a nice thing to be doing any to parents but to any fattened. We'll children as the big loss because what we tend to do is show their feelings down giving Kirke Kirsi nothing to cry about whereas of course if we haven't got good if he holding our own feelings we are going to shut down on children's feelings feel too much for us but of course. Here's what we're doing is we're teaching them their feelings on valid. which is this generational cycle? I'll say talk about a lot and how to change that with children. Oh dron yeah like. There's no better way to practice. Holding feelings with children is really ought to latter toddler cry to let a toddler be angry any age a teenager agia to let a teenager be angry. My Dad's a child psychiatrist latch took him all the time on the phone costs. I need to get the gas. Yeah he's always been very good at helping me as a parent but as when I was a child as his daughter when I was going through something helping me explain my feeling. Oh my God. You're so lucky. Ah I do you know how read I I think I am and I think it's probably why to me perfectionism motherhood and I know people probably GonNa hate me saying this is just no problem. Yeah but that's because you were taught. Oil Fittings valid and by teaching you the oil things have valid. You're really being taught you'll get enough you can be sad angry rage ful spiteful. And I'm still gonna a sit with you. This is your dad and lovey right. That is so profound because what you've got is to be a certain way you didn't have to put a mask on in front if your dad or your parents were. That was the opposite of my experience and so I became this rate king. perfectionist feeling void caused me a load pain because his mom didn't know how to feel her feelings to she couldn't let me feel mine no fault of her own. She wasn't taught how to do it by her. So I got my feeling shutdown. Got Nothing to cry about. Come on come on nothing to cry about let look let's put the TV on you. See what I'm getting taught is a K.. For me to feel sad snow cave me to struggle so you can see where this idea comes. Yeah I'm not good enough funding to be smiling and I need to be achieving to be loved. It doesn't take a psychiatrist. Carter is to figure out. That's the model. I would say ninety nine percent of US experienced and I think also the kind of pressures of or a woman should be in a man should be strong and overseas men have just as much kind of yes crop to deal with this woman but you know as two women talking together. We've been told to be smiley and cheerful and all sorts of things and not be busy and not be stroll many no I think that often also shot outstanding as part of us which are very much parent. Yeah it absolutely does it absolutely does and you know we often get towards women's became dependent. I didn't right. We get taught to go and hug your uncle even though you do not want to. You have weird energy around uncle but you get taught to say what what teaching often are. Little girls still do. Today is to disconnect from our instincts is to disconnect from our boundaries. Of course we grew up as women who are boundaries and can't contact can't say no can't get into connection with intuition because we were taught that not explicitly explicitly clearly no parent says. I'm GONNA teach you to disconnect from your tuition but unfortunately not how this stuff works we learn three modeling. We learned what we see with. What every what we're subconsciously told so even telling a child to go and hug a relative they do not want to hug your really teaching them to override right there instinct? And you won't not to be your sixteen year old overriding. Her instinct. Party seems really small but it's really important it could. I definitely do that with hugging. And I'm like go hug Keno. Even people I know she loves but that's not necessarily the right thing today. Yeah and you know. This isn't about trying to be like perfect about it. It's just bringing a bit of awareness tour. If Jesse if she doesn't want to the other day my dad came and she wouldn't say vitam properly and hip borough these guests and I could just see that was bringing up. Shame in me. It was mine staff so I just Jesse. What would you feel comfortable doing? And she said. Can I just give a wave. We've got great so she just gave it away. When I thought validation tough ealing also what she feels comfortable doing? I've noticed it's my my staff. That was trying to shove her him. Because I want to let like I raising alive my perfectionism. I'm not good enough. She's an extension of me right so so so yeah I mean there's so many the kind of classic pushy parents who are on the rugby field screaming at that child and you know if they do well they get rewarded if they don't they got punished because that's sort of living through children. Yeah we adults and I'm sure I know tons of them. Tons of my friends worked really hard. Core amazing jobs in the city achieve achieve achieve money. Money money in their artillery miserable miserable thought is setup. Childhood absolutely is so as parents. We have this like really hard edge to work on where we've got to be aware and we've got to know the profound importance of our role but I ll south of imperfectly. So it's like this knife edge. Soaked walked up on the ultimately. It's about knowing that the oxygen perfectionism is feeling good enough knowing that when you feel good enough you're less likely to engage. Agent knows pushy behaviors. 'CAUSE picky behaviors there about. I don't feel good enough so I need you to achieve to make me feel good. What else about Natasha's up before but mom guilt? Is that the underlining. I'm not good enough and then you feel guilty for it because I felt like mom goats a hashtag mom gail like thrown around around quite lightly. But I think obviously people feel indifferent about whether it's working too much or they're not doing enough that children everyone experiences. So so I think the Mungo compensation needs more intelligence in nuance right. So the definition of guilt is when we do something that we feel does north align with who we are okay so an example of guilt might be. If I was really ready to you. Maybe I showed up an hour late. Oh Karzai came in and I would read. I might feel guilty about that later because one of my values is kindness and punctuality. Now it'd be rightful guilt at one. I feel guilty about that because one is that Gil to drive me to give you an apology. Okay so sometimes mom guilt if we've screamed at our kids for ten days straight because we're looking after ourselves you might WanNa use that Gil to amend your behavior. It's not saying what I think. The guilt that we actually talk about parents is is not tool hit. Shame shame as I am not enough. Shame as I am bad guilt is I did something bad. Okay so if you've chosen into work full-time and your perpetual guilty about that. That's probably not guilt. Because you've made a decision in line with your values to you work full time now. It may be that you think I wanNA reassess have. My values changed since I've become a mum actually. Do I want to work last. I want to spend and more time. But if you're failing not you're constantly like a bad mom oriel doing it wrong. Shame guilt so I think we need a far for more like nuanced intelligent conversation about because you know is bad as I've shared is about knowing your values if you know what your Isa. What's important to you as a parent? You do not have to experience Mungo. I think this whole thing of like when you push the baby push the Gill our thing. We need to change that conversation. Actually Ashley 'cause it's disempowering. If you say what's important to you Mike I work with Jesse ought everyday but I know my thing is the one I'm with her. I'm with her. It's one of my values presence connection. Yeah so if I'm with I'm on my phone I'm going to feel guilty about that rightly side. Yeah because I'm not in nine with what something is important to me but it means that when I'm working I don't feel any gill value. There are a had a choice. The choice I hate. It wasn't made for exactly so it's a big conversation because then there are choices that we you know. Sometimes we have to work fulltime. And we don't want to right so then it's about what can you do around that so that when you're maybe about presence in connection when you are with your child looking after yourself better so that you're better able to tune in to them but it's a deep and it's a complex it's not Hashtag Mungo law exactly exactly because I think we'll do it like you. You know all forgot the pound for Comic Relief Day. Hashtag mom guilt. That's just being real life life getting the forgetful exactly right human quality so I think like everything like the theme I guess in this conversation about self awareness and instead of just being I I feel guilty all the time if I was working with someone on really explorer. I want you feeling guilty about a you doing something. That doesn't align with who you want to be. Who Is it shame? What would you like to be remembered for? Oh Gosh I would like to be remembered for someone who was just really we kind kind to myself and kind to others around me and then a bonus on top would be that. I somehow could help others left for that. I think he would remember all of them. And I think you've brought to light past need to me in this conversation but also through social media so many really interesting topic thank you the I always learning and my final question for you is what does getting glare back. Mean T O. Aw what I think the thing that I did. Get my glare back if I have aglow with sleep provides like Joe Tricky topic. I think getting my Labor was really the about finding that confidence motherhood and knowing the recovering from this perfectionism through it in knowing that I am enough because for me everything starts on the inside it Mike. Nothing that I do on the outside is going to make me feel anything if my insides aren't good so it's all for me as you've probably told from this this is is all about what's going on inside to me. Listen thank you very so much for coming in full honesty. I felt like I could see for another hour searches that we should wrap it up. And you're about T- give to your second dose Glad neighbor yeah. I can't very well an awesome episodes. He is such a breath of fresh out. I think she gives so many inciteful tips into different areas I just liked the way. She's reframing and talking about cod such a different way. The is quite refreshing and really actionable. Zoe is just doing doing such amazing work. I really wish fast with the rest of her pregnancy and I feel very lucky to know how to able to share her message with you. You thank you so much for listening to this episode. Be Shorts hit that subscribe button. So you don't miss an episode and let me know what topics you'd love to hear about over on instagram distraught. Me a damn common comment and of course do leave me a review. Thank you so much for listening. And I'll see you another episode aged gap. You'll fight back.