198- IPOs & Uber
The. Everybody. This is Phil town and Danielle town welcome to the invested podcast where we absolutely are learning. How to invest Warren buffet style based on a conversation going on here between my daughter, and I might lovely lovely daughter. Who thinks I'm full of it. Sometimes. Not really true anybody. That's listened to these podcasts. No. I just need a little clarification. That's awesome little clarification. And and we're getting there. I think it's it's been a really really interesting couple years here. And we have a lot of podcasts. If you guys want to review them if you're just new to this. They're out there, and they're really good to work through. There's a lot of investing education there in the school of investing founded, essentially by Ben Graham, Warren buffet, and Charlie Munger and added to you know, to great degree actually by Charlie Munger, who is the one who encouraged Warren to be looking for wonderful businesses and buy them on sale. And that's really the essence of investing here that we're trying to to go through and learn and study and the real world the try to find great companies that are on sale and man alive. Are we have in market that is wild market the market? Dropped ten to one for ten. Fifteen percent dependent which market index you'll get and is working its way back up, and we've got the Trump effect going and some people say it's real and some people say it's just an illusion. It's gonna crumble and we're in our tenth year of of no recession, and that's the longest in American history since they've been keeping track of this. And we are at a Schiller P E, which we've talked about a number of times that still way up there and by way up there. I mean in the last one hundred forty years, it's only been where it is now three other times and each case so long now add has but in in all these previous cases that we entered into a depression or recession and giant stock market drops in it just hasn't happened yet. Also when you invest in a broad market mutual fund, which is what everybody tells you to do, of course in your 4._0._1._K's by mutual funds and indexes. The Schiller P E done by Robert Schiller, Yale suggest rather strongly that if you do that in this market, you'll have a twenty year return substantially less than five percent per year. And that one more time you mean, like if you invest today right now based on Schiller anytime, the Schiller is above about twenty four twenty nine thirty right now anytime in the last one hundred forty years that you did that in the big that first year you had a twenty year rate of return by investing in the index s and p five hundred of below five percent. And some of those returns were negative or zero remaining was that gigantic dang. They're just happened there. I didn't hear that. Maybe it's on your computer must be on my computer. So I was reading give mentioned Charlie Munger, and I was reading poor Charlie's Almanack the other day, which is such a good book. Yeah. It's such a. Such a good book. And it's like hard to read because it's basically a coffee table book of interesting coots, and don't so you can't really like page through it, you know, in in a like linear way, but I was sort of like doing the thing where you kinda like randomly pick pages and sections, and by the way, everybody I've ever talked to about that book reads it like this. And there was this page I turn to and it said it was it was quoted coating Charlie Munger, and he said, I've always called this kind of investing focus investing. And I thought that because we have sat here in debated. What to call this buffet style value investing where it's not buying two hundred companies that are cheap, regardless of quality. It's like the Munger buffet style of finding just a small number of companies, and he's always pushing buffet even by less. Companies and and make sure they're really good ones. Although they may not be as cheap as the value. Investing model would have you choose. So he calls it focus investing. And I really like that. What are you? Really good name. I like that too. By the way. I just wanted to say that Charlie has made the statement that their billions of dollars that they made could be oil down to fifteen. Good decisions. Very, and here's the other side of it and very few bad decisions. Yeah. So that's the key. And that's why this kind of investing. We don't really know what to call it because it's not really value investing. Although it goes under that big general heading we call it that at my shop. We call it rule. One investing for you know, rule one don't lose money. You know, the focus is to not lose money on the mistakes and to have upside on the ones you occasionally, get right? And I think what Charlie's pointing out to. They obviously bought a lot more than fifteen stocks over the time period of sixty years, but fifteen good decisions was was what it took to make really insane fortunate in the greatest returns ever in history of investing as long as you didn't give it back as long as you didn't give it back on the ones that didn't go really that. Well, then that's the real lesson here. And of course, you know, you're all going to have mistakes you're gonna you're gonna lose money on some stuff and Buffett and Munger both lost money on some stuff. And they've both been down fifty percent from time to time Mark to market in the marketplace in the truth of it is that this kind of investing. I think Charlie would say agree that if you do it, right? It's less risky than any other kind of investing. You can do less risk. Sqi because we're going to buy a few things you truly understand and you're not gonna get any of them badly wrong. And as long as you don't do that some of them will turn out to be quite a lot, right? And you'll make a lot of money. Let's talk about how to not make those mistakes because it's so easy in hindsight. It's super obvious. Particularly this market. It's really hard to do anything except hindsight. Because as as we say, we don't want to try to jump over six foot bars here, we're not that athletic. We're not superstars we're not Olympic medalist here in terms of investing. We're just ordinary people. And therefore, we need to be sure that the level of understanding there. The level of difficulty of determining this is going to be a successful investment has to be very low and in this market almost nothing is very low difficulty. And the reason for that is that although there's lots of wonderful companies. They're all extremely pricey. They're all very expensive. And you can't make a lot of money, by the way. That's what we're about here. We're trying to hit wealth riches, financial independence freedom. Whatever navy wanna put in it. Whatever amount of money that is to you. That's what we're going for and. In this market. It's they're just very little out there that isn't a you know, a three or four foot bar. So everything. Look back. Oh, wow. I should've done that, you know. But man at an in this Martin, by the way, when I say in this market, I'm talking about since two thousand fifteen this market has been crazy pricey and the Schiller has been off the chart and The Wilshire GDP ratio has been nuts, and every indication is the market should crumble, but the Federal Reserve the functions of politics are driving people into the stock market with no choices, and they can't buy bonds real estate's peaked. It's just where else. Do you go here? So very tough place. Okay. That was my little lecture on that for you. Thank you. I my is. I p O's that are coming down the pro this year. I know you hate listen hear me out though. I mentioned this listen. Yeah. You have to listen. Microphone. Okay. So this year normally I would say, yes, I involve usually very small companies that are not fully developed and often at least in hindsight looking back at the dot com. Bubble often were companies that were not ready to be public, really. And we're just going public to raise money. So that is not the case these days, we went through big slowdown with virtually no IPO's for awhile. Nick started coming back now in the last year this year, there are going to be some really major appeals of companies that in any other situation would have gone public three years ago or four years ago Buber lift Airbnb and slack. These are huge very far along developed companies. I would not call them startups in any way, and they may go public this year, and may not I mean over has been talking about it now for like like three years pretty serious. And they just keep on holding off because of all the problems the company has gone through. So what I think is the question here is yes, these are PEOs. But are they companies that are still mature enough assuming we have the financial data for the last few years, which they will have to put out are they mature enough for us to do a value. Investing analysis on them. Oh, man. Well, let's let's take a little bit. I discuss what an IPO is. Cher everybody. Right. I stands for initial public offering. And what this means is that a corporation breaks up into a large number of shares of stock. Excuse me, which are then sold to typically or are given to founders. This is what you do as an attorney. You know, share that out to founders they're sold to venture capitalists to angel investors to to people who are putting money in. And that is happening. When they're private still when their private, right? And they then hopefully, they do well. And if they do well enough to have a good story for the market sits out there, then they decide to go public. And what that means is that the people who own the company are going to sell some of their sorry. The company is going to sell some of its stock that it has in in its treasury to the general public, correct? And the company is going to take that capital in and do things with it. That's the idea. Right. Okay. So typically on happens is not that the people who own the company when it's private than give up some of their shares for it to go public. Typically, what happens is that the company issues new shares. So additional shares to what's already been issued which so they keep their shares. But their ownership percentage, go. Down. That's how that works. And there's some very interesting ways around this dilution of control that some companies have put into place we've talked about this on the podcast for having special. Classes of shares a certain class would have far more voting power than another class. And that's how some founders have maintained control over their company, even after it's gone public. So those are details that are important to know about how the company is governed in. How these shares are being sold. Right. So that's happened for example with Google, and it does it isn't the case with apple. So they can be very very big companies choose to go different directions with that. You mean the having of different voting class? Okay. So what what an IPO means is that the company is heading stock over to the public in exchange for cash, and there's a couple of major reasons why they would do this. The first major reason is. As they need cash. Right. That's the. And in this world, we're in right now, there's more cash available for companies privately by at least ten to one than there is publicly. So in the old days back before America built up such an enormous market of venture capital and private equity capital with all these hedge funds and giant amounts of capital available for private companies. The only real viable way to get capital into your company was to sell stock. A lot of capital was to sell stock publicly. That's why a lot of companies went public because we were cash starved. We're growing really fast. We're AT and T, and we need a lot of money to put these new things in called telephone lines everywhere and fortune to do that. And if we do that, we're gonna have a monopoly, and it's going to be amazing. And do you you? And so they go public, and they get the cash from people with the good story, and they build a telephone lines and monopoly. Okay. So that's that's the old days. Today, they do that also because they need money. So you've got a company like Uber, and lift retu- that you mentioned that are that are really seriously coming out with IPO's both of those companies are in ridesharing and both of them are trying to own the world, right? And in order to own the world, you got to keep paying out money in terms of investment in building your infrastructure and your marketplace more than you're getting back in and cash flow in the hopes that someday you can stop building the infrastructure. You can quit putting up the telephone lines and just start reaping all the cash. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious about this statement, you made that there's ten times more private investing funds out there money funds than than public. Where are you getting never heard that where the that this is a normal pool of capital, relative to the pool of capital for PEOs? I mean, it's not surprising as you were saying just a few years ago. There are almost no IPO's. So there wasn't any money. I'm not saying that the pool itself there is no pool of IPO capital. Okay. You just go raise it. So it's hard to know what I'm saying. Let me make sure I'm not following mount of money. That was a that went into last year was dwarfed by the amount of money that went into private equity. That's a very different statement than the one you made earlier. Okay. Well, sort of the point I think the implication here is not different than what I what you sort of got from that statement. And that is that there's a lot more money available for private equity than there is frie- PEOs than other words. People would rather do private deals right now, then do public deals right now. And that's a little scary. Yeah. I'm not sure I would put it that. There's less money available for IPO's. I think there's a lot of money available. The question is do people want to deploy it for PEOs? And maybe they don't as much, but there's lots of money available. On the on the private side. There's a huge amount of venture capital angel and private equity money as you mentioned. And I completely agree with you the reason that companies used to go public and used to meaning like back in nineteen ninety nine was that they just wanted to get that sweet sweet hype yo money, and like Regan the cash, and that doesn't have the same appeal anymore because they're so many requirements on companies once they go public that guys are trying to stay private as long as they can. And as you mentioned there is enough money that they can stay private now that said there are constraints on that private money. Of course, there's constraints on any sort of investment that you take. So they I think also frankly would like to get away from the venture capital cycle is my guess. You know, there's obviously there's a place for regulation and in on. This is one of these statements where you can hear the but come in from a million miles away by resist myself. Right. But this is a really clear example of how just little pieces of regulation over many, many years on public companies have created such a brick wall of of an obstacle to go in public that now most people most companies would much prefer to stay private and that brick wall has been built one brick at a time. I the wall put up back in the nineteen thirties with with Roosevelt's administration decided they were gonna bring all public entities under one umbrella of control called the Securities Exchange Commission, and they have gradually added added added added added, you know, more and more regulations as as embarrassing things happen like Bernie Madoff as. Staff. Yeah. Companies do bad stuff. He do Chad on their on their numbers. I mean, all of these things that we tried to regulate and which. In all fairness, make the American stock market the fairus stock market in the world for investors to be in. We love it because it's so transparent. Relative to anybody else in the world about what's going on out there because of all of our regulations, right? Bad thing. But it's there. Bad side of it is who wants to be who wants to be that transparent. Who wants to have, you know, run around out there in your underwear as far as a company goes and showing all of this stuff to your to your competitors that you don't have to show on the price point. You know, putting your directors at risk of lawsuits, your your CEO and your CFO are now directly at risk of criminal prosecution. If it turns out that they've made a, you know, even mistake on their accounting that they signed off for and saying that was absolutely accurate and fully represented the company accurately, and then somebody comes along and five years and says, no it didn't based on hindsight. Those guys can go to jail. So there's a lot of intensity around this. That's starting to kind of backfire and you put a gun at everybody's head. These are rich people. They don't have to do it the way you wanna make them do backfire in now. Just because it's creating. Lower numbers of publicly traded calm. I mean, it is creating lower numbers overall. But lower numbers of PEOs. I'm not sure that that's necessarily a bad thing. Where of waiting the crappy ones, right? The real question is how much this regulation really helps. Right. Is it's almost like do you really can't catch anybody? I mean, David Einhorn wrote a wonderful book called you can fool some of the people all the time about his hedge fund catching a company called allied capital in absolute, accounting fraud, reporting it to the SEC, and then allied, which was a big company had been around forever. Went to the SEC and said this guy's harassing us. And and he is he's creating all his lies because he has this large short position against our company stands to make a fortune if our stock goes down, and he's totally lying and the SEC investigated Einhorn and destroyed his hedge fund. Absolutely put him out of business. He had to start a whole different fund. It was a lot allied was lying, and they went bankrupt in two thousand eight right after nine horn wrote the book about what a crazy drug down into a basement in Washington DC and interrogated by the SEC. And so you got to wonder people bird publicly, accusing company absolutely that company went after him for blood, and they had the lawyers in the money to do it. So and the and the friends at the SEC, and so they went after they sued him for now. Him. They just accused him. They didn't actually sue him. So they accused him of using. Lie to drive their stock down. Oh, I see that. It was personally motivated. So that he would publicly give information about a company that was negative the stock price because he has so much influence the stock price with that drop, and he was essentially self-dealing dealing. Oh that actually makes sense which is a total sorry to tell you that makes a lot of sense. I know aren't thank God recovered, and is now one of the more successful hedge fund managers ever and the book is phenomenal. And what he will do is. It will really put you on edge about regulators. I mean, look at the most regulated business in the world was Fannie Mae, which is the private company that was buying mortgages from banks using government loans to do it. They had over one hundred securities and accounting regulators in the offices of Fannie Mae fulltime one hundred were there and Fannie Mae was committing fraud. I mean, it's just unbelievable. I look at made off made office reported the SEC multiple times. And they never caught. The fact that is using nobody accountant to do all the stuff he was reported. Yeah. Multiple times look at look at the Macondo. Well, just regulators in general the oil and gas regulators were all over the Macondo. Well, what's? Well, that's the well that blew up and the Gulf of Mexico. Oh, the BP. Well, yeah. The BP. Well, and it's like man, it's everywhere. You look it's they get there. Just a day late dollar short. And meanwhile, we've restricted commerce dramatically to a point now where if you can avoid going public and avoid all of this scrutiny and danger and criminal prosecutor, you do it. You don't go public unless it's really important that you go public and cranking the money and considered goes public and that situation protects individual what do you what do you call us investors people who invest in the public markets us, right which leaves us with just perhaps the crap. Just the crap is making it through so wrong. That is. I don't know if that's wrong consider this. If you are a really great company. Why would you go pump those two things are not equal? If you're a really great company, and you choose not to go public. You don't wanna deal with the owner as public regulations that doesn't mean that everyone else who is public is awful. No. It means that everyone else who's public is going public in spite of the owners regulations, and then you have to be a little skeptical and ask why why do you need? Why can't you get the money you need from private sources if the money is even more available as a private investment that it is as a public one. It can't really be about the money. Can't it. It must be that your private investors are a little leery of buying in at this price. Right. I think you're exactly I wouldn't put it quite that way. But yes, I think that's right. It's. It's a combination of wanting more investors that are more investors is wrong. But like wanting to have access to this much larger market without having to make private transactions. And Secondly have that private market be at a higher price. I don't I don't think the markets. I mean, first off consider what happens when a company does go public. They take a certain amount of stock, and they sell it to the public right in the initial public offering and that money goes to the company that's the last money that goes to the company, that's it all of the rest of the money, the public trading that's going on is simply supporting the balance sheet of the company if he will it supports for the banks and lenders and for suppliers and for the original investors that this company has foul. Value. Yeah. I mean, the the argument is that you know, if the stock is selling for twenty bucks, a share that the company has value around twenty dollars a share it's worth that. And you know that because a lot of people are invested on it at that price and they're not stupid, right? But. The last company sees I suppose if you're talking about the company as an entity. Yes. But when you're talking about the company as a group of people know because these people own shares in the company, and if it's if it's a proper startup most of the employees will own shares in the company and its when the stock when the company goes public that those people then can sell their shares. Finally, they're finally worst something to them because they're actually not allowed to sell them on the private market. And that is what these people are often working for right? And so now, you think okay? No. Let's take a look at why they would sell the shares in the public market. Why would I sell my shares in the public market? If I think my company is really going to go up and grow. Why why would I sell those shows better place to put them on because grow the money somewhere else sees private investors? I also want the same exit out of that company by selling their shares publicly, and they're not going to keep on putting money into these companies without having the ability to have that exit down the line. Right. So think about it. Do you like PEOs who are you buying the stock from number one? Who are you? You're buying you're buying from. If you go in and buy it at the IPO, which is actually hard to do you're going to have to significant client of a broker dealer. That's got access to that original IPO. But let's say you buy the stock shortly after the IPO, right? Okay. So Facebook goes public, whatever thirty or something and immediately falls to about eighteen. So you're really smart. You didn't buy the stock at the IPO. But now you buy it. So who are you buying it from assuming that taken the restrictions off? You're buying it from employees who are getting out. Well, it depends on long often a lock-up period. Right. I'm saying post lockup or there isn't a lockup. You're buying it from employee's. You're buying it from the venture capitalists who put the money. In other words, people that know more about this company than you do are getting out and you're getting in. So you really really have to be careful about an IPO because often what's going on. There is people are cashing out. That's definite. That's the name of the given its cash out time. But I'm not going mart money into the dumb money. I'm talking about looking at the financial data of a company that is mature and making an investing decision. Just as I would with any other company. Right. Okay. So then we got an issue of where's the valuation the business which was back in our turf. And again, we want to look at something. That's got a track record of ten years, especially the last. Intention because they're not gonna have ten years, but they might have five years, and I'll confess I bought Google when it had like four years of data. All right. It makes me. Well, because they had phenomenal for years of data when they went public, very number two nice. I didn't I didn't buy them at the IPO. I bought him after I really studied the company and understood I didn't buy at the IPO because I didn't understand the how they made money well enough until I started using their services their started structuring advertising. I started to understand it better. And then I went out. Yeah. This is good. So how long after do you? Remember I bought a two hundred. I think it would public eighty so all right? It was a while year. So something went up pretty came public. I've sold it. I'm clearing out in this. I'm I'm cash in ninety. I'm I'm moving toward more and more cash right here. I'm very leery of where this thing is going for lots of reasons that we've discussed but back to the IPO thing. I'm not gonna rule it out, obviously because I do it occasionally. But it's the risky biz part of the portfolio front lack of long track record. I wanna see tracker through the last time that that that the tide went out, right? The last recession we'll see how this company did in that last recession. So that we know that it's one of the winners when the recession is over not one of the losers. Whereas let's just assume we do not have that. Let's assume we have five years of good financial history. Fully audited, fully vetted. And that all adds up with only the five years to. Two. Okay. And and it has a moat, and and we like the management, and we understand what the company does. Really? Well, and it's like in every other way, this company is a go. Okay. So to two kinds of companies come in public here. The extremes number one each with five year track record number one. It's got a five year track record is just been great straight up making money like crazy. Lots and lots of cash flow. Okay. This is the unicorn of unicorns right here. Because because they're going to typically have no cash flow or lots of debt. All this cash flow. Why are they going right? So this almost never happens. But let let's say it does the real problem is the last five years have been straight up. Right. So you got the last two or three years the bomb administration pumping tons of money into the economy. Then you've got the first two years that Trump administration pumping even more money into the company country. These specific five years are some give you a there the Tide's coming in in these five years interesting. I was just sort of thinking generic five years. But you're right. You got to think about which five years, they are exactly. And so these five years, I would be I would be perhaps dialing down the numbers that I'm looking at for looking like where it's going to be more through a recession and all it. And after the initial growth period is settling down a bit. But nonetheless, we we might look at that. And that's cool GL okay? So Google Z unicorn unicorn cashflow phenomenal and they still went public. So then let's them. All right. That's a unicorn the unicorn very rare is what I mean by that. And then there's the other company which is over. So here's this phenomenal business plan. Earthshaking revolutionary changing all of our lives phenomenal and aside from the founder issues and all that kind of stuff. Look at the business. The businesses amazing. They huge moat and hard to see how this gets blown out of the water. Let's assume you can't can't think anything of that. It's got a great moat. The trouble is losing money hand over fist. They're just through don't misconstrue this as me advocating for any of these companies. But I think I am interested because I think out of what I typically think of is an IPO company, these are very mature. And so that's why it's an interesting question. Right. And I think that's that's the key point is just because it's doesn't mean it's brand new and fair enough. But at the same time, Uber looks pretty immature to me mature company today, they're still trying to figure out how to run the thing. Thing. They're still changing boards of directors. They're still running massive negative cash. Flow. Today that said Hoover just hired its first chief privacy officer ever ever what the heck of they've been doing over there. This company's entire problem is privacy. It never entered my mind, they wouldn't have a chief privacy officer. But no not tell now. Yeah. So there's there's the two extremes. You sorta got Google on one side making lots of cash flow the first four years or spectacular. You understand the business? You see the moat? See it's disruptive, and it's going to be around a while. It's blowing everybody else out of the water. Okay. Take a shot. Right. If you've got everything like that. But the only thing negative is just doesn't have a lot of time. And it is hasn't gone through a recession. You have to make a judgment. But it's so it's risky biz. Right in that part of the portfolio. When you. Small part of your portfolio. Yeah. It's a piece of the ten percent piece. So maybe two and a half to five percent something in that range where you can feel comfortable if you made a mistake. Okay. Right. Because you just don't have enough information. No matter how much you know about it. You don't have enough to know. It's still at that early stage. Uber not don't eat. Nothing. Like uber. You don't buy stuff. That's coming public to get the money to survive and to build its market that's pure crap shoot that is a straight up and by the way, they're going to price it through the roof. So high the price and it really high because the the private equity guys don't wanna put the money in at that new valuation. They're ready to get out there ready to bail and say, look, you wanna take to the next level. It's all you because we're outta here. We we took it as far as we could. We don't wanna put any more money in at these sky, high valuations with a negative cash flow company now. You take. Let's take it from smart money to dining that's a lot of conjecture. I think that they can you on privately they want to. Oh, I don't know. I don't know at the price. They're laying out on this company. I mean, who I take take I don't know that much. I don't even know. Round of capital was at such a high price that there really isn't much choice other than to go public from here on out because here's why Honey if you're in venture capital, you're demanding essentially that you see a forty to fifty percent compound rate of return in every investment you make because you know, some are not gonna do right? Right in order to justify that kind of risk. You've got to come out above twenty percent if you're doing well. Right. And the good ones. Do they don't come out at forty. They come out at twenty right? Twenty twenty-five make about what Buffett mix. So in order to get there. You gotta you gotta see every deals gonna make you forty to fifty percent compounded per year. And so when you're coming in these last stages of a company like Uber. There's no way to see that. It's very hard can't grow the company that it's true. It's true. It's very hard. And yet, I would guess that Uber can get some investors if they want to which is what they've been doing. They could have gone public two years ago, if they were so desperate for money, and they didn't they could have gone last year. They didn't because more vehicles. They were going through these these terrible PR situations and real-life situations. And they didn't want to go public at a lower value than they thought they could. So they waited to sort of write their house and put everything in order and. And now they've got a new CEO and they have a chief privacy officer. They're like you're going to catch some late mezzanine investors in the in the hedge fund world who are going to say. All right. Yeah. We'll we'll pop in at this valuation. It doesn't give us forty percent compounded over the next ten years. Does is it gives us. It gives us it gives us twenty percent. That's a lock right lake and the next year, and you're gonna take it completely like who knows what's going to happen with this company early stage investment, it's a very very late siege investment. And they've got an idea what they're going to go for. But trust me on this. It really is going from smart money too, dumb money. It really is. That's that's what's happening with a company like that. They're they're hoping there's a lot of investors out there who don't need a very big return by smart money. I mean money that's coming in really understands. What it's doing and demands of high rate of return, that's Warren Buffett money. That's Charlie Munger money right now. But there are high. There are a high return people who don't as you mentioned like investors doesn't make them. Dumb money. Dumb money is mutual fund money. Okay. They're going to accept an eight percent return. Six percent return. So they are they're taking on exact level of risk that the VC's were taking ten minutes ago. Yeah. Well, K they've liquidity now which helps them, but they got the same company success risk and get the same investment in in the industry risk. And they're taking six percent for it with VC's wouldn't wouldn't be willing to take anything less than twenty five disagree with that characterization. Later stages much less risky than early stage. Oh, yeah. It is it not taking the same level of risk. Well of the guys that put the money in last year last year differences. This year. Now. Yes, you're trying to go play know what you're saying. Let me make your argument for you. What you're saying? Is that last year the company was in a world of hurt? And so it was a much worse situation than it is now. There we go and the VC's are going to score. Yeah. And they're going to sell it the dumb money and with that. I rest my case. Well, I. Have many things to say, but I will stop because I can tell you them this week. Well, what do you want to do next week? I wanna keep talking about it, the other ones Airbnb and slack. And and I want to hear about your dividend. Investing idea that you mentioned a couple of times ago. Okay. We'll make sure it work at both of those. And then we'll jump on into the deep end of the pool right swim. All right. Time to go play. We're going after the the big ones where the big ones swim char. I love one fish metaphors, fish choices. If you wanna if you want to catch fish, you got fish where the fish are seems like an idea, and then he said, and then he said if you wanna really catch fish, make sure they're swimming around in a barrel. And then he says if you really want to catch fish drain the water. And that's what we made by the kind of investing. We did we're going to drain the water. And if you really like fish, I I apologize for the horrible way. We're treating the fish in the barrel. Their imaginary? Let's go you can tell I just got done reading the old man in the by him in way, got fish on my mind, the classics dad, I like it was so good. It's so fun to listen to Sutherland, what's his name, the Donald actor Donald Sutherland. Yeah. Keep seeing Keever Donald Sutherland narrates old man and the sea into it on audio awesome. Yeah. Downloaded audio on it. And it was it's such a short book. It's so good. Yeah. It's an incredible book. He wrote into the sea in the sea was cold. And the sun was hot. That's my version of Hemingway. Right. All right. We gotta go. All right. Thanks, everybody. That'd be good play guys. Thanks for listening to invest. If you enjoyed this episode, you want more information show, notes and more episodes. Visit us at invested podcast dot com. There's a special offer waiting for podcast listeners to attend my three day investing workshop, absolutely free. So just head invested podcast dot com. Everything discuss them, this podcast is either my opinion or Danielle's opinion, and is not to be taken as investing advice because I am not your investment advisor, nor have I considered your personal situation as your fight Dushi airy this podcast is for your entertainment, education, only, and I hope you enjoyed it.