Every Day We Live, We Make an Impact: A Conversation with Dr. Jane Goodall
woo-hoo. ooh Me Jane another chimpanzee would recognize it was me. In that Jane is none other than Dr Jane Goodall the celebrated primatology, lifelong conservationist sharing with us the district greeting call the chimpanzees she's been studying for the past sixty years. Welcome to another episode of blazing trails. I'm your host Michael Revolt themselves studios. Jane Goodall has dedicated her life to protecting chimpanzees and fighting tirelessly for a better world but today like millions of people around the planet. Dr Goodall is also in self-isolation in her childhood home in England in April she joined salesforce Jodie Connor to talk about the powerful ways. This pandemic is reminding us how we're all interconnected. But before we jump over to Jodi acquired about work, dot, com work, DOT COM, and all new suite of APPS and resources that leaders around the world can use to reopen reskill employees and respond efficiently to the covid nineteen pandemic reopening will be journey but worked dot. COM is your guide to learn more go to work DOT COM. And now, salesforce is jody Kohner and Dr Jane Goodall. She is a world primatology renowned. Hello she is a renowned a primatology just anthropologists conservationist author activist trailblazer, personal hero of mine treasure to the planet She has been doing sixty years of groundbreaking work studying chimpanzees and Tanzania and really redefining species conservation She is a U. N. messenger of peace and she now dedicates all of her time to the Jane Goodall Institute which she launched in Nineteen seventy seven. So Jane Welcome. Welcome to our little show here not as like to thank you for inviting me and mock any off and I have collaborated on planting trees, which of course is slightly. Right now but. I want to greet all of you listening from around the world and hope that you're keeping safe and welll and all your loved ones as well. Is this an awful lot of suffering people who've lost their jobs and people who have loved ones who are Dying on dead, but you know the rest of US battle on, we don't know how long for but we will get together. We will survive this as we have survived a things in the past. So this is just to welcome you and say how happy I am to be here with you. Thank you and triggering off of that and what we have survived in. The, past you know this is certainly not the first cross species contamination that you have lived through when you were in combat, Tanzania the family of monkeys where stricken with polio, SARS and HIV were also other species viruses and wondering if you can speak for a little bit about what these occurrences have taught you and what we really need to learn from these incidents well. I hope that this time we will really take up the lesson that this. Kobe. Powers I mean it's the first time. The whole world is being shut down but you said lived through their experience I lived through World War Two you know that was grim. We were fighting a known seen enemy. Now way fighting an an unseen minute anime in this virus I was also in New York that time of the destruction of the twin towers that seemed like the ending of the world for a while it did change the world and I've been in other. African. Countries when those killing and rioting on things like that. But? Yes. The thing that people really need to understand is that we have brought this pandemic on ourselves. It's being predicted for years and years and years by people studying these. So called zoonotic diseases, that's animals that's diseases that jump from animals to people and very often it's things like the wet markets that's where they sell live and dead animals for meat. In Asia, it's the BUSHMEAT markets in Africa it's our intensive farming of domestic animals in all these situations animals are crowded together with people often an on hygiene comes sanitary a crowded and extremely cruel conditions, and that gives the opportunity for a virus to cross the so-called species barrier. And it attaches itself to another virus in all bodies and we get these pandemics. So yes, you mentioned size was Mazda came from domestic bactrian camels HIV, one HIV to came into places from eating chimpanzees, and so we you know we moving deeper and deeper into the animal's habitat, destroying the forests br bringing animals in close contact with each other so that viruses jumped from one animal to another that animal may be better able to posits viruses onto us, and then of course, animals are being pushed out in two human communities because they're getting less and less of their own habitat. So the crop rating example. And this time, let's hope and pray that we learn from this pandemic which has hit every one so hard commercially with loss of life loss of jobs, loss of livelihoods and try not to let this happen again, and the last thing I'd say on the hat is the being with the chimpanzees which on monkeys by the way that apes taught me so much about how like us they are, and at the beginning I was told by the scientists. Nineteen, sixty mid sixties but difference in kind between us another animals and only we had personalities, minds and emotions, and of course, being taught by my dog, my Dobrusky I grew up with him. He taught me we not the only beings of personalities, minds and emotions. But now the doors opened and way realizing it's not just primates so like us but elephants, dolphins, buds, pigs are as intelligent as dogs more intelligent than some they can actually enjoy painting and. You can google pig castle and at Castle Oh that's raising. Let's genius and. Some crows can do Oeste them eight-year-old humans and so. These animals that are passing these viruses Aung unknowingly the ones sold in the markets that one's crammed into our intensive farms. They too are individuals with personalities, minds, and emotions. They feel fear distress and certainly pain. So we have to consider that as well as the effect on us. It's what we're doing to animals and to the natural world. So what do you? Think the role of businesses are right now I mean never to your point, the whole world is impacted by this and we're all having to really reconsider what our relationship is with the planet. What would you call to action be? What do you want businesses thinking about? Well, I think many businesses have already begun to think about the impact on the natural world and Take steps to do things differently and salesforce is one of those businesses and I can think of many more even some of the oil and gas businesses are beginning to put more money into green energy sustainable energy. So hopefully, this is a wakeup call that we need to do things differently because we have to realize that our human populations are growing and this determination. And the economic development at expensive the natural world is going to destroy us because already in some places, the natural resources being used up foster, the nature can replenish them the seven point, two, billion people, Dow, twenty, fifty, they say nine point seven and what we'll do. So we've got to thinking a different way of how we interact with the planet with each other. I know you have been hedging down on Africa and I'm also curious to kind of learn about and I've been seeing that Kobe nineteen is on the rise down. There I'm curious if we're learning more about how this might be impacting the chimpanzees, do you have any insights into what's happening there will be a many of the primates are potentially susceptible to the covid nineteen virus and we have to sanctuaries for orphaned chimps whose rather Being killed for Bushmeat Aman, of course, the Gombe Chimpanzees and is also studying chimps in Uganda and Barundi, and Marley, and DRC, and so we're having to take as many precautions as we can anybody goes into the field has to wear masks and have hygienic close of just being washed. No visitors allowed. So the sanctuaries suffering because they dependent on tourism to keep going some of them, and so you know we have huge extra. Demands for sums of money that would budgeted for, but we have to do it. You know and also, Africa. So in the US as you know health benefits, the some kind of care the money is being given to some NGOs, some businesses to tide them over under alone in Africa. So many people just live day today little stallholders beside the roads What are they going to do? They have absolutely no safety net and so Some leaders saying where we can't do shut down because people will die of starvation. So it's very worrying to think that the surgeon Africa is just beginning is just beginning right? Well, listen you. You recently had a wonderful quote in the Washington Post talking about your hope and that you have hope that you did live through World War Two and by the time you get to eighty six. You realize that we can overcome these things. So. There's a lot of doom and gloom out there. Jane, and I'm wondering about your message of hope and how you hope humanity is going to change after this. You know one hopeful thing is everywhere. There are communities coming together and individuals to help. It's a spirit of community. Getting together but is really wonderful to see an also I'm hoping there are so many millions of people living in some of the big cities who never know what it is to breathe clean air except perhaps fortnight's holiday somewhere. To look up and see the starry sky in the middle of the city, and this is happening all over the world. If there's enough millions and millions of people than ultimately those millions of people who do not want to go back to the old days of pollution will be able to push business and government to make the necessary steps to prevent too many emissions and to do what? It takes to prevent another pandemic, but also to keep a home and are these the types of messages that we're going to get to see in the documentary I. Think it's called Jane Goodall. The hope is I think we can use all use a good dose of is it's pretty amazing. It's actually happening now. Isn't it? It I? I'm assuming you didn't know this was coming when you. Will basically I think many people have seen the previous documentary Jane the concentrating on the early days the one as the best days of my life this is more about the world I've done an activist, the impact it's had on so many different kinds of people going from you know some very poor passed in the middle of nowhere in Africa the People James. Baker and and the head of NIH. So I'm fascinated when my back I think that's strange. How did that happen? It's pretty remarkable. You've had a tremendous impact on this planet. It's really staggers me and I don't understand how this happened is nothing I thoughtful. Wanted A yes. I wanted to help protect chimpanzees and get them out of medical research of animals to. Fight the intensive farming, not just the animal farming but the agricultural this way poisoning, the land with chemicals messing about with genetically-modified food and it's dangerous. Yeah. Yeah it is. So you're sheltering in place like everyone else humans around the world and I feel like you're just kind of alluding to as well that the call of the wild has just never been stronger. You see those starry nights you know in India and Punjab, they can see the Himalayas the. Pandas in Hong Kong Xue are mating. You know. Yeah? Yes. Right. I. Saw a Fox in my in my neighborhood this week. So I feel like you know the humans are inside and the is never been happier and and we can't get out and so I'm curious to hear from you someone who's drawn so much of your inspiration in your spirituality from being in nature just how are you getting? Your nature fix I'm lucky. I'm in the House it's a family home. It was my grandmother's have some raised the money to actually buy it because she never had any money. She was married to a poor, the German and it's questionably garden, and this is where I am now over here are the books that I read as a child Tarzan. Dr Doolittle. And Garden outside you have gotten outside I can see. So you can get out into the garden. People Count and I've been a bit shocked recently to hear from people who have probably much larger homes even the news that larger than those who say, Oh, they feel are imprisoned that movements grossly grumbling at them just imagine what it's like to be six people in one small room until that, you can come out and beaten if you do. I consider myself really lucky. I've got the garden. We've got birds out. We have foxes stonefoxes have always been around yet. It's not rural, but it's the cliffs leading up from the ocean and I can take the dogs he unfortunately rather old he's never liked walking. Ness. So sometimes, are you one of those people Jane will put your dog in a baby carrier and push him around no I don't know that. Wouldn't like it he. Like taking a reluctant smale for a walk. FORCED, March. March nature's everywhere you know even in the inner city, we sometimes to program a young people roots and shoots. We have them going around a city and they've actually found endangered species that nobody knew is there they've done numb citizens, slams aunts quite exciting and really happy to hear you bring up roots and shoots I think I was just looking into this for my own kids I. Wonder if you WanNa talk a little. Bit about that there. So many parents at home with their kids and they're trying to keep them educated and entertained and roots and shoots is just another real intimate program right now yes it's one of the things I'm proudest off really starting that back in Nineteen ninety-one with twelve high school students in. Tanzania. It's now in sixty five countries and growing those hundreds of thousands of young people from kindergarten university and everything in between. The main message of roots and shoots. Each one of US makes a difference. Every single day we have a choice of what sort of different will make. Let's all of us. And each group chooses foot self three projects. One to help people want help animals when healthy the environment and then they don't have to do the same thing but they share their projects with each other. We bring them together from around the world, and so I would say over these years, hundreds and thousands of young people have been working to make this a better world and they keep their values of the Salata that in this film that's coming out, they keep their values even when they're grown up and sometimes have very responsible positions. So I go around China and people come up to me and say, but of course, I care about the environment I was in roots and shoots in primaries. So it's having a huge impact, it's my greatest reason for hope, I, love that I feel like everyone should do this or should be no age limit on this. I am reading books for the children some of the books I wrote two children we pull it I think storytime with Jane or something you know thinking all the time of other things to do to keep young people occupied just imagine this happening twenty years ago we wouldn't have been able to have this sort of communication. You know the human intellect is amazing. It's the thing that makes us more different from the rest of the animals than anything and it's bizarre this intellectual being destroying its own the home but. You. Know the intellect is amazing and this is just one example that I'm talking to people I can't see you will I can feel you all that and you also need you are loved. You know more than any other guests that we've had Jane. We have had more children reaching out to send you their regards and just say, hello through are the parents of the people who work at salesforce we perceive well, wishes from Lily and from Eva and from rex, and we got the most adorable video from a five year old boy named Theo and we're going to email it to you afterwards. But. He had a great question. He wanted to know his name is Theo Lorenzen and he wanted to know if you still have your stuffed ape jubilee well was given to me when I was one and a half years old and I still have him. But unfortunately, he's on lockdown just like the rest of us he had been exhibition put on by the National Geographic I. Think it's called. Jane Something Am I. Did I was reluctant to let jubilee go at me spree precious eighty four and a half years old. So generally is locked that he they took him away for you. Well, no I I agree because I. Okay. The People's I wouldn't let him go till. They made a bulletproof case but Hingis can. I do have the oh I do have missed H. and LOW MISSED APE I've had him for twenty eight years and he's with me everywhere given to me by a blind magician who decided you know he'd learned skydive and he's learned to paint. And he thought he was giving me a chimpanzee but I made him hold the tail said Gary Chimps don't have tails. Never, mind taking away you go. You know my spirits with you. Gary Horn and the that he's done called blind artists and in it is a portrait of Mr H. He's never seen who need felt oh, that is really You can get it on Amazon he published it himself and It's H.. A. U.. N., H.. U. N. album I will check that out. Okay. We have a few minutes left. Catherine has any bar play submitted questions through Saturday we could take. A couple of questions. The first question I have for you is you spend many years absorbing chimps at awhile what lessons have you learned from them that you've been able to apply to your life visible pay to be how are science was to make an there was this unbridgeable chasm between the US, which just isn't true but you know on a more sort of intimate level. So to speak in Chimpanzee Society as in ours, there are good unless good. Mothers I was fortunate in having a supportive mother who was the only person who didn't laugh at me when I was ten and dreamed of going to Africa living with animals, writing books about them and she just said Jane. If you really want something like this, you'll have to work really hard advantage of every opportunity. But if you don't give up, we may find a way less message I take all around the world and we find in chimps we now. Onto the fourth generation and we find that the offspring of the protective affectionate supportive mothers do better. The males reach a higher position in the hierarchy simul kids and the females better mothers, and I also learned from watching some of the mothers they have such fun with their babies they play with them. They lie on their backs dangling from their feet they tickle them they chased him around the trees. I'm going to have fun with my baby and I did. Wonderful and kind of a somewhat related question. What was kind of the greatest act of compassion that you witnessed between the different at chimpanzees over time observing the most moving compassionate is when an adult chimpanzee adopts Muller's often usually it's not about the system they almost automatically adopt an infant. The child must be at least three survive because they suckle for five years but sometimes unrelated adult. So adolescence will adopt the men say their lives is very moving to see. How another one of our employees, SA's like you've witnessed so many different things over the years and so many acts of cruelty towards others, animals, how are you able to keep your compassion and not get burnt-out considering angry what kind of tips do you have for us to kind of maintain that composer a hook? On Festival in I'm pretty obstinate and I'm not going to give up an more people try and do things that I think are wrong more. I'm going to tackle them but I think the big secret is not to show aggression not to point fingers not to lay blame but you've got to reach the heart is not much good arguing and if You reach the heart. How do you do the I do it with stories are some lovely stories I could tell you but it's time. But if you can cause a person to think even if they don't agree with you at the time, you leave the story with them that they then think about later and I watched so many examples of people actually. And don't make people lose face, it doesn't work. Good advice always other other questions Katherine. Have more questions. So on another side note, there have been reports of increased poaching in Africa related to Kobe nineteen, and so what are some ways that we can kind of contribute now to the conservation efforts on the ground and support local communities I think it's going to be very important to raise money to enhance programs like ours to carry program is working with the communities around Gumby and also in the. Other African countries and if you want people to stop poaching, you have to do two things one, you have to find alternative ways of people making a livelihood if they were, for instance, getting money from punting, poaching, cutting down a forest fire or making charcoal and things, and secondly you have to work on the demand. So our roots and shoots programs in Asia, you know concentrating on telling people. Actually Rhino Horn is just like fingernail and Pangolin scales wound help you and have bile give you a disease. So we work on that end but I think people can truly help by supporting conservation programs on the ground involving local people it's true poaching does go up because conservation organizations are no longer able to pay rangers the National Parks same situation people starving, and so they go and kill the animals, the parks or shoot elephants sell the ivory it's legal. Thank you for sharing that with US getting that important call. To action to get involved support, these local conservation organizations is there anything you'd like to leave us with any parting words anything you want US thinking about as we head into our weekends? Well, you have a week him. I don't know what a weekend is to be honest. It just carries on for me. You know reading books for people and doing video messages and interviews and Pud costs and you name it, we do it and I'm putting words are you know think of any which way you can get children involved? In programs like roots and shoots think of how you personally can make a difference in your life whether it's contributing money whether it's raising awareness. There's always something people can do. It depends who you are what your interests are but just I think the most important thing to remember is that every day we live, we make an impact and think about the consequences of the more choices we each day or do we buy it we wear what we eat. Where did it come from? Did it harm the environment it resulting? Cruelty to animals is it cheap because of child slave labor or inappropriately paid labourers in some other country and try to make ethical choices and went billions of people make ethical choices we'll be moving towards better world. Thank you. Thank you the impact that you have had on our world and us, and just me personally I'm so inspired by you. You are an absolute treasure. So please promise me. You will take care during this very crazy time and and we hope to be talking with you again soon be well. That was Dr Jane Goodall with jodie Connor talking about how it's more urgent than ever to stop destroying the planet and to protect it. You learn more about Jane's work by checking out the Jane Goodall Institute at Jane Goodall Dot Org. I'm Michael Rowbotham sells for studio soon. Thanks for joining us. Today.