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Episode 5: Coup


This is how I spend all my time owning horses breeding horses racing horses. It's what what makes me truly happy and I actually think it's what I was born to do until the other thing came along that someone else was born to do that. They elected not to do which meant that. I my father then I had to do a job and whenever meant to welcome to the crime. The official PODCAST. I'm Edith Bowman. And this show will follow the third season of the netflix original CDs. The crime episode by episode taking you behind the scene speaking with many of the talented people involved and diving deep into the stories today. We're talking about episode five code. Coup upon upon the devaluation of the pound recently state chief of defence staff might baton is approached to lead a military coup against Wilson's government. Meanwhile Wow Elizabeth visits international horse breeders where she gets a glimpse of the life. She could've lead where she's free to pursue our passions. We'll cover specific pick events and scenes that feature in this episode. So if you haven't watched episode five yet please do so now or very soon. Coming up later we'll hear from actor. Jason Watkins pins who plays Prime Minister. Harold Wilson Jason Speaks of Wilson's expected bond with the Queen as well as his embarrassment over the economic downturn downturn during his time in office as rather brilliant economist. It hurt him doubly yet that he was unable to prop up the pound hound so it was a crisis of economics person crisis in senior me. Personally we'll also hear from head of research on his soles bar Dr who speak in detail about the economic situation in the UK in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven as well as the evolving powers of the crown. She could free all prisoners if she wanted to. She could disband the army but she can't because the minute she does that it's no longer democracy but I I. I spoke with German director Christian show about his personal connection to the crown and what drew him to the character of Queen. Elizabeth Christian. Thank you so much for being been here to talk to us about your involvement in the crown season three because your just about to hop on a plane back to Germany as well. So that's right much appreciate Asia eat. Can we go back before you actually kind of started work on it and hire you were approached to be part of the currencies. Three I have an agent and in London London and he spoke to different people in the industry here and I think one day talked to Susan mackey An and showed her film that I made A period drama about Germany's most famous female artists and apparently honestly she really liked that and had a feeling distracted could could be a fit for the crown and then ahead a a real interview on Skype skype with her and I talked to why I love the crown and why it's so special for me that I was born in East Germany so so I spent my childhood and even though you know I wasn't a victim of of the system but I know how it out fields to to lift behind the wall and I know how exciting it is to lead a life and freedom so the character of young Elizabeth who from one day to the other become so powerful but also has to move into a prison for the rest of her life. Deeply moved me and still does yeah. That's my main connection to. The crown passed an incredible way to put it in terms. That personal connection that you have with a personal connection with custodian as well because it's interesting because you was your first english-language CD's Edward Don and and also the crimes you're one of the first non. I four now. Well that's debatable. But but but you know those those I it's that's a great kind of connection as well uh-huh and a great story In the looking for that the vision I guess side and and also within sparred and impressed by the work. That you've done an in Germany's well so then that happens. And then I'm Peter Peter. I was scared to death when I met him. I We met at his house. which is I'm very nice. House and We had a conversation and I felt like he doesn't like me. He doesn't smile at me and he was listening running It was a Saturday. I was in the middle of shooting my last feature film but then they called on Monday and said come over. Let's do this together tasers. Yeah and then how do you work. Or how did he let you walk episode. You're going to be working on. That's going to work on. You would be two episodes but it took go out to send me scripts but when I got them a few weeks later I got the episode five script and I was so so excited because you could immediately feel something very political and it's even though it takes place in in sixty seven the the coup We're talking about an episode five. It feels so like now in a way. Yeah because You know it's owed man trying to play a dirty politics and To kind of to save something they they feel needs to be saved which is their power their money and history repeating itself. Isn't it in a way. It's such a brilliant thing. And that's the thing that Peter Talks about is about always coming back to her every episode coming back to heart and she deals with every situation and constant turmoil that she has between her role as you know the monarch on her on her private personal as a mother as a wife as a you know. It's kind of that constant it's never ending and this appeal. She has both way and she hasn't with everybody. She has it with Margaret. She has with her children with her husband. Yeah Yeah let's let's see ourselves as well absolutely absolutely. I'm really happy that I was able to do this. Scene with her and her friend. PORTIA in episode five. where she's opening up and telling him and I think she she would never do that? Other episodes to tell alum who she really is who she could be in a different world. It was great for her and for me to show her being happy. So it's only him the sandwiches a cup of tea and two horses and it's this is actually what could make her so happy. Simple life yeah. And then the scene where she actually talks to him. She says it's this was the most enjoyable day of my life of my entire life but also it's such a sad day because I know it shows me who I am but also who I could be. I mean it's such a strong drama and of course it's A. It was a great gift for me to to have a story of hers but that So's substantial and allows me to show her in in a different way. Yeah I think those well. Peter Scripts are incredible in terms of how he's able to to navigate this incredible story that he's talent these people that we know. We think we know but he also allows you is director to really have your own journey with that script with those. Yeah Okay I Yeah it's it's wonderful because Peter he comes from theater so theater you have to to find every move between the words and to to fill the gaps between the lines and his writing. His dialogues are brilliant. They could begin vacation for me to reinvent. The scenes ought not reinvent but to to find a lot more and to make them richer. And because you can always trust his scenes and they will always work. But there's there's yeah I mean there's a million ways to to do them and I think I took a lot of time to prepare different options for every scene and and you collaborate with the with your Costello on it you talk about Vm. Particular CENA's. It's me talk to them about how you see and the different options that you have in your head for your yes but every actress different. Olivia for instance. She very often just asked me. Tell me how you see it and I'm GonNa do it. Various bias We would call each other the day of the week before doing the scene. And for instance the end of episode five after the cool thing is solved. We see them meeting up in her in her little drawing room and they have a little not an argument. But there's a little bit of off. And then he comes and kisses her so it's so delicate and so this was never in the script it was to buy as he just did it in the rehearsal I was like I think he did it as a joke. But then we we we we were like. Oh my God. This is how the scene has to end. You know what I mean. So it's very often. It's finding things together and The great thing about the crown is that it's not you don't have to rush through the shooting day so you halftime for rehearsal and we would talk scenes through and decide which is the best part of her room before and so yes so many different ways ace of doing a scene and sometimes I would even ask Peter before and he would say. Just do it this to your the answer to your question. Question is yes. There's a lot of freedom. Those scenes can also have a different life. Once you get into the edit as well once you work with the music and there's the in particular take yellow new. We talk about this wonderful intimate scene. That she's she's having with her friend and his insight into the world she could have had she's taken to a phone cold and then there's the Milton. Yeah compelled to stay the tolerance of the royal family's hanging by a thread as it is throughout my time in office I have done my level level. Best to protect you but if members of the royal family to interfere with the political business of the day I would be left with no corruption but to side with the Republican elements of my cabinet which have successfully controlled until now they take steps David with me Prime Minister I I just and then that walk that jazz back back. Yeah that was that was. Yeah Peter I discuss about because he wanted me to tune to cut it a bit shorter and I said No. It needs to be that long I I wonder who wanted to ask as well as well. How how the themes in fluence? How and what you do as well in terms of you know with with episode five the coup? There's there's is you know the state of the country that whole kind of cloud of hanging over and Mine Barton and his involvement in as well and whether influences he's your approach to how ye sheeting in terms of this all this kind of stuff going on the outside. When I read the script I and then I met with Peter to speak speak about it? We must be more about Britain today than about the story. So of course once you know it's not not just directing a period piece it inspires you more and you kind of try to. I mean this is what what we tried with this episode to make it look less period. Drama Lord I mean yeah the sixties helped us and we have this. I mean this Daily Mirror office and I watched original footage of the time and it was a messy place. Everybody was smoking was papers on. The Floyd doesn't feel like like longtime ago and so we we made the episode Soda Bit Less Glossy Because we wanted it to feel like it's happening again and if we didn't you know we don't watch out there are how strange dangerous forces who take over. Yeah it's a bit Darty. Yeah yeah no I absolutely get that I I love as well because this for me is the moment where you really believe the friendship and trust that has developed over time between the Queen and and Wilson when you start the season with this relationship and you go she's not too keen on him as that develops in this particular episode. He relies in her. She really needs her. And I think we can feel that even though it's through the phone and it's between London and America's big distance. She can feel that she has to declare a position very clear one and that's what he does and also in a very distinct distinct way. I mean the scene with Mountbatten afterwards. She's really angry so it's hard for her to to hide her anger. I I mean she still finds nice words to at the end but I loved the episode because she has to she has to do real politics six and She she understands how important heroic can be in the beginning of the she feels like she's she's useless she she is actually nothing meaningful to say or to do and yeah. Through Wilson's she understands that she has real power and but she can change politics it. Can you talk a lot about Charleston's who plays Mind Barton. Olivia and not seeing how you shaw conversations were around. I mean I do remember that. I talked to To alleviate about the beginning of the scene and I because we have several shots on her but one is very close and I an asset to before mountbatten enters. No the second. He ended us. Try to hide your anger and play the whole anger with your teeth and I think you can see that. She's trying not to look angry but she has to. She has to force herself nights. Exactly yeah she's amazing and What I just can say is the Charles Novia had big respect for for the other end Todman really fine. I mean it's an emotion scene for him to because his whole dream of becoming an important person again yeah just disappears within five seconds and he knows it he knows. Okay now my official life is over and he doesn't cry. It was really nice to do this scene. Because there's so so many emotions that are hidden Yeah but not hidden completely. It's a great scene because like you say he's expecting something completely different and within five seconds he knows. Okay that's it. That's it for me. I'm now going to retire. Yeah we just heartbreaking to why are you doing with. Why would you protect actress man like listen? I am protecting the prime minister. I am protecting the constitution. I am protecting democracy. A man of heart of democracy threatens to destroy told we supposed to just stand by and do nothing yes doing nothing is exactly exactly what we do and buy time and wait for the people that voted him in to vote him out again if indeed. That is what they decide to do. It's a family drama. This is about people we think we know and the research department is such a huge important part of it and also those people who go this would happen this would happen and the one and the need for the authenticity around this world is so precise yes absolutely. And that's when Lovett to work here I am. I started before I became a film. Mega was a journalist. So my approach is always research resort resort and trying in to understand the reality of my of my subject so coming to the crown was like Arriving in Paradise Behalf Anne and her team the research department they find that can find out whatever you ask them and I mean there's so many details people probably will never see. There's a lot of great cars. Yes I mean we had to. I had many conversations with Eddie my aunt director about costs and he told me different options. It's also based on research. They found out. What kind of car would Lord Mountbatten have when he's still in charge and what's his private cars so I mean it's nothing we might up and I think we even knew what Cecil Kings was so many Royce and great costs? But it's nothing that we made up. It's what what history Toda's so that's why we have all those cars in the same way in the episode. Where on is driving driving in a car with bully on the on the Stereo? That tells you so much. Bye Hard the world the period and stuff as well and kind of what kind of contractor. He's really In the same way that these cars are almost kind of visual stimulus to something or to a character or place or clever young. I mean they represent power right. I mean when the bankers are arriving at broad lands the Mountbatten's estate. Yeah it feels like nick like an army coming like dark. I am the train. The train lean training was a tricky one yet train and plane because both are builds in studio and to make it look like a real train. Journey is technically quite hot even though Oh. CGI is able to do a lot but it's still hard work to make it look like a real train see. I thought it was a train. No I'm sorry I'm sorry. Yeah I have to tell you Buckingham Palace is also not Mazen. Thank you so much what next I spoke with head of research. Only Souls Burger who explains the economic situation in the UK at the time and how that what might have contributed to disatisfaction and Wilson's government. Let's talk about this coup. Oh yeah if we can so nine nine hundred sixty seven the kind of politico economic situation in the UK is there's all sorts on these kind of the state of the unrest really. Yep So essentially this artificially high sterling issue is continuing to just reek havoc havoc. So Wilson knows that in order to keep the pound. If he's going to prioritize the health of sterling at two point eight dollars and everything was tied to taller at that point so two point eight dollars. He's going to have to get bail out all the time. There's no possible way that he can't that he can keep it. High and not beg for money from other countries because what he inherited was a deficit so the UK is importing far more than it's exporting. So they're spending a lot of cash and they're earning much cash and actually society at this point. Everyone's doing okay. But then they're spending it on more imports and so it's just like this. The productivity is particularly high England. Used to be kind of the workshop of the world and how that's died it off but it. This is inevitable thing that they're going to have to devalue the pound in order to stop begging for cash it's just not healthy. It's not viable able anymore so he accepts that in doing this. I'm not only pulling back the curtain and admitting that the UK is in severe severe financial distress. But I'm also kind of admitting that globally the UK's not that important anymore if it's not a world economic powerhouse kind of what is it so it's not a decision he takes lightly but there's no real alternative it happens. He values it In November nineteen sixty seven seven by fourteen percent so it goes down from two point. Eight two point four and this immediately damages his credibility and at a time when his government's already under attack for poor employment figures for wage freezes for spending cuts all these things that he's trying to do to not be value the pound and tax rises and then also there's a huge brain drain of the well educated younger group of this new generation. Where they're just like? I'm never going to find good work here at high wage. I need to get the heck out of here so everything goes up and and I mean it's the consequences are. There's this thing called the London Gold Pool which one of our research Daniel tried so hard to get his head around. Did a beautiful job on it. But essentially there's like a run gold after that because of sterling got valued in the The dollar would get valued and then gold went up in value and so it caused a whole domino active active of sort of global financial issues and more panic. I think than than anything but it was a real embarrassment for him because it was really as something he inherited from the Tories before they should have done it. Then as you know this government is committed to maintaining sterling two dollars eighty two the bound but with every economic blow the oil embargo balance of payments deficit and the Dhaka's unions strike. It's proving living harder and harder to maintain and I'm afraid that now we have no alternative but to devalue the only pound and need hardly say it is a matter of overwhelming regret for me personally the humiliation for the government the power that the crown has over the government and high through history. That's kind of diminished. Well because the rose very much almost used to be the reverse yes so if you go back to medieval times the sovereign sovereign was all encompassing. You know And when that started to be clearly not very healthy you had the creation of the Magna Carta and then I think partly the creation of the role of the prime minister which was the first minister under George. The first was par was due to the fact that we imported a monarch from Germany and he didn't know the system very well so there became this role of first minister and sort of help translate translate government him and that sort of when you start to see really I mean it had prior to that absolutely become its own thing but that role of prime minister that we the explore starts to become a really significant leader figure there now head of the government in a way that she is head of state. Yeah so it's actually rather complicated. Because on paper she has royal. Prerogatives powers She could free all prisoners if she wanted onto she. Could you know Disband the army but she can't because the minute she does that it's longer democracy It she no longer constitutional two two tional monarch. She is a dictator corless and for her. I think this is very important. No matter or how bad the country gets. She truly believes that. If you want to change it you got to vote. That's that's our democratic right. As our responsibility she you can advise you know she might be able to sort of indicate certain avenues that that Prime Minister Might WanNa consider but she can't don't really step into that role that has been over the last few centuries You know kind of shoring up as sort of is this head of state but somewhat powerless figurehead. It's a yeah it's it's a very complicated a position of being in this episode where where the the creators of the Ku genuinely believe that they they might get kind of almost the backing of the queen in this because the country in their mind has just gone crap you know they see my botanist their weights hard to use in him yes completely and now and they also see mountbatten. I think you know somehow. He was very forceful representative of. I think you know. It's a combination of his military background. So he's his own man as as a defender of Britain but also he has this way into the royal royal family and he was really seen by many people as great leader. Who didn't really have a job anymore? So why not utilize but for him he knew the a hurdle was. How do we convince a queen? Elizabeth T to defy everything that she holds dear and probably more so than than most monarchs. She unquestionably would not participate in something. Like that on. The notion is that who could is kind of Instigated not by a media mogul which is really interested in terms of where we are now with you know media's influence over government and in public perception and all that kind of stuff is quite interesting that this looks like it was almost the birth of that kind of ideas. Yes absolutely in an a media. Mogul who was huge Wilson Labor supporter until he wasn't anymore And that was in all honesty because he didn't get the knighthood the peerage was that he wanted sorry not night that he didn't get the period that he wanted he wanted a hereditary peerage that he could pass on and Wilson would only offer him a lifetime page and that slight she was almost enough. You know you combine that with and by all means you know newspaper moguls. They're watching they're interacting with the news in a different the way they're interacting with what is happening society quite differently in politics than the average person but he just. I think that personal slate started the to really blind him to everything and it just became about taking listen down as far as we could gather just extraordinary. We don't often often get a very heavy political episode because we often downs it with with the royal family because mountbatten sort of gives us a more outsider had a perspective but he's still in the royal family and allowed us to see a little bit more of that culture outside of a of the Royal Palace. And then you also have this storyline with Elizabeth Breath in terms of these wonderful conversations and experiences. You saw them with her kind of lifelong friend with poetry kind of thing in terms of what could have been for her. I guess if yes things have been different so at this point. We're really lucky. In how these he's parallel storylines happen. She's losing miserably at the races and she's made a lot of money from horse racing and and got her out of the house you know into the country lifestyle that she wished she had had if particularly if even just if her father lived a little bit longer she would have had more of that and She realizes under Portuguese advisement that things have to change. She's kept on all of her father staff. They're all nearing eight years old. They're going to retire. She needs to go out and look and see how the world has advanced and finally I caught up with Jason Watkins about how he approved all of prime minister. Harold Wilson in this episode episode five there the coup. Do you know news to me. I had no idea about coup extraordinaire. And Yeah we did a bit of research power that very compelling very compelling episode extraordinary sequence of events and he I think Wilson was my view between the Queen. Anne Wilson. No he was hurt by it and he shared an angry about what was going on in the background. I don't think he was surprised necessarily but he was very angry and then she she did end up supporting him point Riley. Yeah so give us a so of brief history of where Brinson turmoil. The states in the country is the proposed coup in simple terms painting painting. A picture of it. The Here's this working class. Man Coming into power. You know if you look at how McMillan and Douglas doesn't feature but I mean this it's like somebody in the previous century and this all the old money as old money in England in the UK and there's money from the Americans to prop up certain Gaps in the economy. This huge inherited a huge deficit. Eight hundred million pounds extrordinary amount at that time by deficit that means the difference between the money we get from selling our goods to what we buy in these a huge nightmare to inherit as an economist so as a rather brilliant economist taste it hurt him doubly that he was unable to prop up the pound so it was a crisis of Economics Anna personal crisis and he says the signs in the United me personally but what happened I think really was that you know the Americans. They didn't want support anymore. Because Wilson refused to support Mo- Vietnam. He didn't want to fight. He did actually send some an amount of arms to them but there wasn't that political support the Americans wanted so that was missile problem and I think the city heard they were so about get him really. I mean they were and That's not to say that to no city has changed in this community different series regulations. Perhaps who knows but I mean at that time there was this old money. bowler-hatted umbrellas in a You know morning suit kind of city sensibility. So this sort of young young upstart. He's he looks great okay but he was actually in the forties for seventy came to prominence So he was relatively young and there was you know But they despised him and worried with. This is the interesting thing I find is where I was the idea of. Maybe one of the first times that the media had tried to kind of get involved oved politics in a way and skew things oh interest in terms of looking at where we are yes does does have parallels and they you. Missile King is the head of the Middle Group reasonably these headlines to undermine Harold Wilson and his government that kind of behind this all these all. Just it's a kind of conspiracy theory all this kind of influence. Avaz makings voting certain ways and but it is extraordinary to think that in that time name the there were wheels going on in the background that we're very serious. In that time there were wheels going on in the background. That were very serious. EPSOM awesome and Whereas Mine Barton and all this because the you know they were by all accounts mountbatten was a fan of Wilson's really wasn't easy? There was a there was not friendship. A- An understanding. Yeah I think so. I mean it was a short coordinates. Aim to be sacked and that was pressure puts on Wilson and he was a decision that was made and that must have been totally made him pliable in terms of possibilities of becoming a leader of you know and it's Berlin knee expressed in the episode is named the old colonial. The colonial spirit obviously was part of his part of him and And he was the Viceroy of India. And you know he did all that stuff. But I think it's very well documented in the episode that he was not completely convinced all the way along the line it wasn't something he was jumping Out and that it was. He knew that it was unconstitutional. Even though there is obviously a clear a clear legal loophole that he could explore But Yeah and nothing that. That's that's what is so brilliant about the crown is that it explores political events huge political events from a personal point of view. Not just when act is coming remain an approach. They're given these gems to explore the time and the resources to do very well. Jane you know just seems between those was to us just extraordinary. It's warm and humorous in human and children. Yeah that's the thing is like there were eight year old. The issue of ten-year-old Certain Charleston. And he's just come from these massive events. These has a personal life with his his sibling in the four of us breath the four all of this now to left. You don't make the way out nonsense. They're Cayman Moment. Around the time I turned seventy when it dawned on me no longer participant spectator discovered them for myself. It's just matter waging and not getting in the way I have been getting in the way they don't you know secrets in this place addressing down to queen you yes. I did also funny funny little good. Hello Malaysian will grow new. Admiral planted amuses you because the situation this country is facing is anything about amusing. I think that's one of the things that connects the show to people because they have big deceased. Everyone has big diseased to make decisions to make with the with their family. MM-HMM I do like the weights almost kind of race to get to the Queen Between Mountbatten an and Wilson. In a way you know in my Barton rings. And she's busy. She goes Oh town in she seems seven just the way she so gray is a guy but also porch in that. There's a moment whatever it is. It's in that room and she's had enough of the balanced. Badgering is on the phone. And of course he in the midst of that whatever Dave radius between them twisted again. Because we think it's my own it's Wilson and he says that he's aware of it. I mean it's just one thing off another that Peter it is so good at structuring. I mean that's the thing about it as well as the tone is so unique I think is well you know. And there's this beautiful moment at the end of the of of episode five between you know it's it takes you down one route episode but then it brings you this kiss between Elizabeth and Philip but then yeah you never see the intimacy between them that off joy dramas. I mean that's drama can do and do they kiss at the end. Who knows but I mean it is is the spirits of their relationship? And that's what Peter Excels in factually based but he can shape something to give you really wonderfully Komo emotional connection and what I loved about. That moment was disavowed. Code Matin clarice. Although those wonderful scenes that they have about struggling with a marriage and a marriage whether it's in the spotlight or not but it was a wonderful echo. Fearful is the classic thing everyone talks about intelligent. Each episode is its own little Story in in it and yet it stretches across a whole series queen almost has to kind of constantly walk. This repeats in terms of where she lawns and re reacts to things you know when there's chaos going on arriving tear. She almost a lot people would say. She's emotionless but it's but it's is about her. Gt isn't it. I mean whether you feel the emotional you you you display it. They're different things but they were both leaders and could help each each other in terms of how you are both a practical you practically in your day to day dealings either as a politician as acquaintances a figurehead. Ah Wilson understood that more than more than any prime minister certainly up to that. Point to mean and Wilson was the first person to do that he understood television. Used it and and you know the the devaluation speech was not you know that was the most difficult thing but he you know. He quoted the Beatles. The understood that that one's image is important in of course with the Queen it is import- her images important. The substance is very important as well but this there are they they can help each other in the way that they could be portrayed and do their jobs better spur. Thank you so much thank you. Can we sit for another excuse gains my stride. Now I'm Edith Bowman my special thanks to our guests on this episode Christian show who Jason Watkins and any souls Burger the crime. The official podcast asked is produced by net flicks and something else in association with Left Bank. Pictures Join US next time. When we go behind the scenes of episode six toes a comedy which focuses focuses on a young Prince Charles as he struggles with hugh he is versus whose family expects him to be their similarity between my predicament? In the world. Am I listen to this family. Am I seeing who and what I am. No I have a voice rather too much of a voice for my liking. Not having voices something all of us have to live with. We have all made sacrifices and suppressed who we are. Some portion of our natural selves is always lost. That is a choice. It is not a choice. It has a duty. Subscribe Ni- Wherever you get you podcasts

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