CBD: Weed Wonder Drug?
Hi, I'm Wendy's. India listening to science versus from Gimblett media. This is the show where we hit facts against four twenty. On today's show CBD. Cvt is a chemical that's extracted from cannabis, and it's all the rage right now. So I'm at a very busy coffee shop in Brooklyn to try it out. We are in the hot. Of Williams bag. There's lots of plants around a CIA, the clientele is Brooklyn fancy. I kind of looked like bankers who at some point in their lives wanted to be screenwriters. And I'm here with senior produce Caitlyn Sewri at one point in her life wanted to do hard hitting journalism subtle geometry in the woodwork here. Have you noticed? But she's now stuck with me talking to Albury friendly barista will who walked through this new CBD craze auto CBD stuff. I feel like the most open minded people you'll ever meet here Williamsburg. Honestly, we'll told us that most of his customers at CBD to take the edge off if you feel stress on your shoulders kind of helps a drop a little bit. Because people think that you're gonna go on this like you four adventure. Have you see it's like helps you feel a little bit more relaxed. It's like getting a ten minute massage like, a nice quickey, and you're in and you're out but online people claim this chemical can do. More than a massage. They say it reduces pain helps with sleep makes you lose weight and can even clear up acne. He's held the menu at the coffee. Shop solved its benefits this high potency tincture, reduce stress, anxiety, pain, inflammation, and promotes balance of mind and body. And so we'll told us that he likes to add to a bunch of stuff, including his coffee. Get your boost. The also feel the more relaxed the same time and his smoothies. So good and his little shots of juice tolliday shots. This all sounds very chill. But this is a cannabis extract is it legal. I believe so I mean, we're selling it. So this legal. It's everywhere you see everyone wins New York City in general. So I'm assuming so so we looked into this and CPI is exactly legal. It's a schedule one drug the feds put it in the same category as heroin, but the is some gray area here and the Drug Enforcement Administration. The day told us that they generally not going after people who using CB. So I'm gonna do it in the coffee. All right. So I'd say do a lot of cash Milkin CBD dumb. Sold as my favorite. I got you. K? He goes my first CD. Initial thoughts. Tastes like, you know, what I am a massive net. And I haven't had that often. But it does taste to be like. Like, a we're going to be very towed out outta whack today about to have the best day of your life and all sorts of right here. So it wasn't the best day of my life. But maybe I did feel a little less anxious. CBD taste test. Really got me thinking what exactly you see be? And how did we get here? We're trendy barista is casually adding a cannabis extract to my morning coffee. Will it tends out that the story about how this thing got? So huge has nothing to do with Brooklyn hipsters. It was actually a matter of life and death. And that story is coming out. Just after the break. This episode of science versus is brought to you by the twenty eight teen Subaru share the love of event when you buy or lease a new Subaru between now and January second super will donate two hundred and fifty dollars to a charity close to your heart. This year super in its retailers pondering with over six hundred seventy hometown charities Subaru is also partnering with the ASPCA make away she meals on wheels. And the national park foundation later in the show you'll hear from Subaru retailers Carrie Hamilton from bead more Subaru in bead, more Nebraska. She'll tell us how she chooses to support. The Subaru share the love event Dylan mall. Visit your local Subaru retailers. Go to Subaru dot com slash sham that Subaru dot com slash sham. Welcome back today. We're tackling CBD a substance found in pot and we're starting with the unlikely tale of how it went from being virtually unknown to becoming the coolest chemical around. Sorry, hydrogen, peroxide. Okay. And how stories a long way from trendy Williams bed. Coffeeshops it was two thousand and six and in a small town in Colorado at the foothills of the rocky mountains page figgy had just given birth to twin girls. Everything was perfect. They were born healthy. Everything was awesome. And they were joy page was settling into life with her two little girls. But then something happened to one of the twins, Charlotte. When she was only three months old getting her dressed, and my husband was was changing her diaper. I believe getting her dressed, and she started shaking, and she was blue and convulsing. That was terrifying is absolutely terrifying to see your healthy child that way. Page and her doctors hope that this was just a one off sometimes babies have seizures and they never happen again. But that wasn't what happened here. Charlotte started having seizures again, and again, and sometimes they went hours, I think her longest was was four hours long. And so they just started coming. He's went on. And it wasn't getting better paid sometimes videos of the seizures for her doctors. And you can see Charlotte's entire body shaking and her eyes rolling back in a head. It's okay. Honey. Here. Doctors gave Charlotte all these meds to stop the seizures page thinks it was about fifteen different drugs and nothing worked retried everything. We tried everything by the time she was two and a half three years old everything and some of them multiple times shallot was eventually diagnosed with a rare form of epilepsy, cold Dravida syndrome. It has no cure. And it's really scary. A lot of kids with your as die before they ten years old. And Charlotte's case was bad. She was on oxygen. She's fed through a tube. She didn't make eye contact and I just felt like keeping her body alive in between a seizure every thirty minutes by the time. Charlotte was five doctors will already planning for the west page signed do not resuscitate order fish, Charlotte, which meant the hospital wouldn't revive her. If she stopped breathing page said Charlotte was having so many seizures that she was hardly conscious. And she told Caitlin sorry. I'll senior producer about one particularly terrible night. She never slept at that at that point in her life, and and so sh- her, and I were in the kitchen downstairs in the kitchen, and I was just holding her in rocking her, and and she was screaming, and then she fell into a seizure, and this time the seizure instead of going on and on for an hour or two it just stopped and she went lifeless in my arms, and then I just started doing CPR right there. But that's rare that that works. So it was kind of it wasn't like come on in Charlotte. Get through this. It was it was me. Saying goodbye, we always feeling like at this point. It's better if she does. Absolutely. It was it was I wanted her to be at peace. I was saying it's okay. I love you. It's going to be okay. And just to let go and and is hoping she would at that point. It was just so bad. You're just hoping whatever happens after you die go there. And it's okay. And I was giving her my blessing to die. Charlotte didn't die that night. But page new she may only have a few weeks to live, and it was clear. She was in pain sue page started hunting for something that could help her die as peacefully and painlessly as possible. And page while Brin Colorado, medical marijuana was legal and cancer patients, we using it for their pain. So she thought maybe marijuana could help Charlotte. I know that sounds crazy. I'm not this way out there hippie mo-. It was just like whatever whatever works page. Started researching marijuana trying to figure out what strains might be good for Charlotte's pain. And she found something unexpected page stumbled across some small studies from decades ago about a particular chemical in marijuana CBD as it's known in the literature Canada. Dial. Now, this chemical didn't seem to get you high. But it could to something else. Something potentially amazing for Charlotte in these small studies CPT looked like it could prevent seizures so page dives into the research to find out everything she can about CBD she called scientists from around the world. I called everybody all day. They could hear her seizing in my arms on the phone. And it turned out that very few researches knew anything at all about CBD and sieges the science was kind of flimsy, but page had nothing to lose. So she decided to try it on Charlotte. Next step finding marijuana with high levels of CBD. And this turned out to be hotter than you might think. There wasn't a big market for that kind of weighed. I went to every dispensary. I called every person. I remember my last dispenser. I visited I had called them. They said we've got this stuff. It doesn't get you. High doesn't get you high at all. And I said that sounds really promising. So I went down there cloud of smoke. You could see the smoke coming out of the Bank room that smoked it. They had smoked the last little bit of this that they had. They wanted to sue. They're like, yeah. You know, it really doesn't get you high. And I just felt like I'm done. I'm done with this whole dumb with all of this. And I quit and that moment. Yeah. Thanks to these bozos at the dispensary pages shot at getting CBD for Charlotte. Went up in smoke and page thought you know, what I give up. This is never going to happen. But then the phone rang one of those people I called called me. And he said, I got this guy. I'm gonna send them to your house. He's a pot grower. And and he knows some stuff that might interest you, Mike. Now, I'm done. I quit today. Thank you so much and the doorbell rings the guy on the phone had given pages address to the puck grow. And now the guy was on her doorstep, and he was about to completely change Charlotte's life that man that came to my door that day was Joel Stanley Joel Stanley. She was nice, but you could tell I was the puck guy. Here's another damn pot grower. Right. But then we started talking, and it quickly turned into her realizing that we had exactly what she was looking for Joe who kind of looks like a lost WinCo Voss twin had grown a strain of cannabis with tons of CB Daynet. He did it for his small medical marijuana business that Joel had with his brothers. In fact, they all call this strain. He pees disappointment. Because it didn't. Get you high. So Joel Stoute's telling page all of this and then right in front of him. Charlotte has a seizure SUV Eylandt. Just this uncontrollable shaking is kind of rolled back in the head. And these these parents like page figgy they're so used to it. They'll continue the conversation while you're kind of sitting there and shocked you look over by the door. And there's there's a bag packed for the hospital. That's that's how these folks live. Joe was a bit freaked out though. And he wasn't sure about giving his pot two five year olds Shaalan. So he talked to his brothers about it since they will run the business together brothers had a bit of a response like mine like wait a minute. Wait a minute. You wanna give some of our canvas to a five year old who's about to die? Hold on a second gel and his brother Josh told us how stressful making this decision was his Josh we had that conversation. Do you? Remember that was right. That was what we said what if? She were to pass on from a teacher right after taking you know, this by coincidence. We talked about, you know, who would get more jail time. You're me or Jesse or John Jesse and John van more Stanley brother's biz seven in total, and yes, they names all begin with Jay. And now these brothers had to decide if they were gonna go out on a limb to help a mum that only just met. They did some serious thinking and even spoke to Charlotte's doctors who gave them the go-ahead after all these docs, didn't have any good options left. The brothers ultimately decided to help they were juice the CBD down to an oil, and then page gave it to I little go. And that was the moment she stopped seizing. She just stopped. Yep. She's having a seizure every half hour. She didn't seize for a week at fast page thought. Now, this competency day. I didn't believe it. I I honestly didn't I don't mean. Like, I was astounded. When I mean is I didn't believe it was working but weeks months went by and while Charlotte sieges didn't go away entirely. The difference was huge page says Charlotte went from not talking and being fed Vira feeding tube to running around with their siblings. She feeds herself. No, she's started school. She walks. She rides a bike. She can talk. And so she's just a kid running around, you know, she's special needs. But she's has a life again. It's just a total one eighty. Jemison high. Sure. The mummy. The Stanley brothers ended up naming this CV off the little Charlotte. Instead of disappointment may cold, it Charlotte's web. And this is where things really started taking off CB day and the Stanley brothers wants the epilepsy. Community got would of what CBD could do for Charlotte, desperate families with no other medical options wanted to get some before Charlotte story went viral the Stanley brothers only had a supply for about fifty people soon. They had a waiting list of fifteen thousand we would have people who would find out where we lived where I personally lived in knock on the door to explain to me why their child needed to be moved up on the waiting list, and why they were worse than than another os impossible to keep up with any of it. It was so heavy since shallots story. Scientists have run several clinical trials testing if CBD can help with some kinds of epilepsy, and he can not in all kids. But it has a big enough affect that the FDA approved a CBD base drug VCR. And it just hit the shelves. And while the epilepsy community was getting very excited about CB day. The internet also got a hold of it. They were tales around the web of this. Great new chemical that didn't just cure epilepsy. But also aches and pains demand. But the stuff was skyrocketing. And the Stanley brothers foster became one of the biggest CBD supplies in America. I mean, there are millions of consumers now, right? Some portion of those are are are reporting experiencing amazing results for one reason or another and people are buying it for all sorts of things like anxiety. That's the number one reason we see people buying no, then number two people are saying sleep. And then also some people are using that have cancer some people using that have Parkinson's Alzheimer's, rheumatoid arthritis lupus too long when it's Paltrow's groups started spiking cocktails with CBD and Joe Rogan was using CBD lotion he's injuries. And these claims of really snowballed just last year some websites where even suggesting that CBD could treat cancer the Stanley brothers got in trouble with the FDA linked to a website like this. Then more careful now, but still Josh is Kane on the powers of CB day. He wants to see people taking it every day like a vitamin. We'd like to see this in everyone's medicine cabinet as a as a therapeutic nutritional therapeutic. Okay. So CBD arrived on the scene as almost a miracle cure for some types of epilepsy. And now it's exploded into this phenomenon where people using it to treat just about anything. So after the break, what can science tell us about this chemical? We'll see be live up to the hype. That's coming up. This episode of science is brought to you by the twenty eighteen Subaru share the love of event. Here's how it works. When you purchase a new Subaru between now and January second Subaru will donate two hundred fifty dollars to one of four national charitable partners of your choice off you can follow carry Hamilton's lead. And support a local charity. Sponsored by your local Subaru deal. I'm with geared more Subaru Bellevue, Nebraska, which is. I found out that carries family has deep roots in the community. And this rich legacy means that her work is more than just a job. My whole. My whole hair every day. I think about what we do. Here actions are decisions and measure what my family stood for for hundred years. Did you ever imagine? When you were growing up. Did you did you know, you were going to go into the family business? Well, I shall worker. But I think you can do great things thing business owner, and especially being a Subaru business owner, certainly a business very much better community, and we care what happens here, and what happens here carrying you that she wanted her share the love of enter nations to support elementary schools in her community. So she chose the Bellevue public school foundation. These are the most vulnerable. Citizens in our community. These little kids need help H school can use their grant from Subaru in the way that best suits their needs. One of the school wanted carpet covered their playground. Another school wanted to washer dryer because unfortunately, they do have kids that come to school sometimes with foiled. And this washer and dryer help maintain their dignity. This is one example of more than six hundred seventy hometown charities that a part of the Subaru Shantou love event when you purchase a new Subaru through the end of the you'll end up with a cop and healthy a force for good to lend more. Visit your local Subaru retail or go to Subaru dot com slash share that Subaru dot com slash sham. Welcome back before the break. We had the story of shallot. Feeding the go whose recovery from severe epilepsy whipped up a frenzy around CB day. And now people say that CBD can help with all kinds of things from pain to depression and anxiety and even clearing up acne. And it seems kind of crazy that CBD could do all these things, but the industry and CBD fans say that they have science on their side. Dr. Josh they say that these extract can do all the stuff because of a complicated system in the human body that interacts with CB day, and it's called the Endo canal annoyed system cannabinoid system. The Endo can have annoyed system is thought to play a role in a bunch of things like regulating our immune system and even influencing our motions. And it does this through a network of Recep decides that found through. How brain body now? CBD advocates say that the chemical has this amazing ability to into these receptive sites. Like a key into a lock like when of Paltrow to of China. We have receptors in our physiology for CBD, this is a really big deal that we have these receptors in our body that directly bind the plant. They say that by interacting with this complex system. CBD can make you feel bad out, reduce your anxiety and dampened down inflammation and speaking to the Stanley brothers. They told us that CBD binds to these receptors he's Joe so there's much more to understand what we do know is that let's say CBD for the CB two receptor site does fit like locking key all over the internet. You hear these basic idea, and it really adds scientific legitimacy to using CBD for all sorts of things. The only problem is this story, the lock and the key. Day. It doesn't seem to be true. Yes. Scientists at this all sorts of ways, and they're like dude CBD is not binding to those receptors in the Endo cannabinoid system as researches put it in a review papa- beside DEA, quote has now been largely dismissed and quite the truth is we don't know. What's CB day is doing we talked about this with Ken Hutchison? A professor and you're a scientist at the university of Colorado. So we don't even know the mechanism yet in terms of how CD works in the brain. Right. I mean, there's some maybe some hints Miller in animals, but even that is is pretty spun. That is kind of crazy. We we don't we really don't even like how how it would be possible as totally crazy. So it doesn't look like CB is latching onto these receptors. It could be affecting the Endo can have annoyed system in some other way. Maybe not. It's one of the many possibilities. There's just a lot science hasn't figured out yet. And while many scientists, including can't do think that CBD is doing something and shows promise largely because it's helping kids like Charlotte the research is so new that other than epilepsy. We've hardly got any clinical trials here as a few encouraging studies on pain a little on mental health. And he's what can't said when Caitlin asked him about the research on anxiety. What's the most convincing study used saying that day could help with anxiety? So you know, I mean, honestly that there haven't been any commencing. This is this is the problem. This is where rat there haven't been any convincing studies yet. And I think we are waiting for that convincing evidence that that actually does something helpful for people with things ICTY. And it seems like people who want science on CBS will be waiting for a little while. And this isn't just because science takes. Time in the case of day. It has another hoop to jump CB is a schedule one drug. And that means if Kent or any other scientists wants money from the US government to study it it's really tough. There's a bunch of rules here. They can't just buy online. And then study it's affects he. Yeah. So even though I just had some day in my morning coffee. Scientists we can't touch the stuff, right? Doesn't matter. How many dispensaries are here in boulder? Colorado doesn't matter that the state legalized it, you know, whatever six years ago, that's kind of bunkers. That's frustrating. Oh, it's totally frustrating. Right. Because you know, even talking to you a little discouraged as I realize more and more how how little we know. Right. But at the day, we're going to see, you know, again, maybe it works for some things and the list is not too long after all what all this means is that when people seeing the praise. Of CBD for all sorts of conditions. We really don't know how this chemical is working. And we also don't know if it's working because some of what people feeling could be due to an entirely different phenomenon. That's right. Our old friend rhymes with Louis. Cbo say we've me plus see. Even Joel Stanley who made the original CBD concoction for Charlotte acknowledges, the placebo might be playing a role in the CBD mania. Is there some placebo because of all of the hype and the news stories coming out about CBD for this that and the other reason the people talking on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram is there some placebo going on out there -absolutely there is every time something good pops up. But that doesn't we shouldn't detract from from all the people that are receiving genuine benefit whether it's drastic benefit or they just feel a little bit better. And that's a fair point. If you all using CB, and you feeling better. That's great. But before you start adding CB T, A morning, coffee and evening, cocktail, there's something you should think about how do you know, what is actually Emesa be products? Because nowadays his scores of them on the market. And it's not like. Birth control. I mean, this stuff isn't tightly regulated. And this is something that Mallory Loughlin a clinical research. Scientists has thought a lot about you know, I have more faith in what's in a candy bar than I have in something that people are using to treat medical conditions, primarily mental health and neurological conditions. That's insane. Mallory just did a study with her colleagues from the institute for research on Canabal, noise, they analyzed what was inside ova AT CBD products. And so what did they find? Oh, the overwhelming majority. We're not accurately labeled seventy percent had labels that didn't match the stuff inside. Yeah. Seventy percent. They either had too much too little CB, Dan them. And while that's not great. What is perhaps more consenting is that one in five of the products had some cheeky THC in them. This is the psychoactive chemical in Wade that gets people high and gives them the munchies. It's probably not something you want in your coffee before work unless you're running a billion dollar electric car empire. It seriously. Mallory told us about this one report of a few kids who are acting funny after taking CBD for epilepsy. The doctors tested them and they were positive for teach. So they were they were intoxicated. They will. Hi, they were. Hi. And they're the parents thought they were giving him CD. They thought they were trading. They're giving them something non intoxicating. So they weren't expecting their kid to get high. And. Yeah. Yeah. THC and you see it can happen. Now. One thing to note about Malary's research is that her tame got funding from the wheat industry, but the findings do hold up when the FDA did a similar analysis few years ago. They also found a few products of CBD had some wacky Tabacchi snacking. Okay. So that's one risk getting high. When you rob a not bay, and you're just getting CB day is that faith well, while we haven't followed people who use in the long term from. The studies we do have they have serious side effects in the clinical trials. Some people got diarrhea nausea fell tired when I took it. I did get sleepy. I had a nice nap. CBD more like CB's Z jas. Anyway, there is also evidence that sometimes CBD can interact with other medications things like antidepressants and some blood thinners from what we're seeing clinically. We're not seeing anything. Too bad. I guess I'd say, but again, we don't know there's not enough studies on this. Oh, you know. Time will tell but. Yeah, folks, should definitely be aware at the end of the day. CB does seem pretty safe, but it's still early days, sir. It's tough to know fish oil. So when it comes to CBD does it stack up. Well, CBD can really help some people with epilepsy, which is pretty amazing. So we know that this chemical is doing something to our brains about we're waiting on hard data for a lot of the other claims about anxiety, and sleep and pain and everything else that people using CD four. He's my prediction though, Mike every other wanted drug before it CB day will probably turn out to work for some people for some things, maybe sleep maybe things -iety, maybe it'll just end up helping kids like, Charlotte. Staring into the crystal vol- a year from now, I don't reckon. You'll be so jazzed about adding CBD a coffee. They will be a new thing in town. And like a ways we'll be here to rain on your parade. That's science is day. Hey caitlin. Sorry. Hi, wendy. How many citations in mistakes episode over a hundred we cracked the sin 'Timeo show spent a long wake people want to read these citations, they they can go to the Shinar tes in your pa- Kosta. You can just click on it. And you'll say the transcript for all you can go to the website, science, Bessis dot shy. Thanks, katie. Thanks mendy. This episode was produced by Caitlyn sorry with help from me Wendy's along with rose room Merrill, Hawn deli of ribbon where edited by Terrell with help from Caitlyn. Kenny back checking by Michelle Harris mix and sound design by 'em among music written by 'em. Among and Bobby Lord, a huge thanks to professor Elizabeth te'o. Professes cinnamon Bidwell, professor Celia Morgan associate professor Ziva Kupa and associate professor Dhia dress as what as well as Frank Lopez. Joseph Lavelle Wilson and his family next week, the seven minute workout, can you work off that thanksgiving techy? In just seven minutes. To win jazz. No whingeing allowed in the seven minute workout. There's simply no time. I'm Wendy's them. In fact, you next time. Thanks drafts. The twenty eighteen Subaru share the love event when you buy a lease a new Subaru vehicle between now and January second super will donate two hundred fifty dollars to one of four national charities or one of six hundred seventy local charities you get to choose to learn more. Visit your local Subaru retailers. Oh, go to Subaru dot com slash share that Subaru dot com slash sham.