Coronavirus, History and Legal Considerations
From Radio Vermont. It's the Dave Graham. Show on W. DV. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you. Now here's your host Dave Graham. Good Morning Variety. It is Tuesday march the seventeenth. Two Thousand Twenty Happy Saint Patrick's Day all those out there who are still trying to celebrate Saint Patrick's Day despite These Very Bizarre Times. We are living through with corona virus pandemic the country in the world and all of the precautionary measures folks are taking in response to the corona virus. It's it is just mind. Boggling the changes that have occurred in our in our state in our country over the past week or so I'm looking at a whole stack of paper here. my colleagues have been collecting up here at the wd. And I'll get to some of the particulars in a moment for stuff that people are recommending stuff. That's been canceled Order out yesterday from the governor which will review for you in just a moment I wanna mention it a little later in the program. We're going to get some historical perspective. Marc Busch now is going to be joining us on the phone to talk about the flu. Pandemic of two of an excuse me of a nineteen eighteen and nineteen in. Vermont was a very very tough time. We had some words from Ken. Squire of w DAV about that Yesterday and a little more detail today from Mark Bushnell do believe In the latter hour of the program I saw some stuff on the On facebook over the weekend where people were asking questions about. What do I do if I finally get around to Drafting up a will are there. lawyers people recommend to go see about Getting that going or are there ways to to Get yourself a basic will draft it up you know. Can you do is? Is it something that is amenable to a do? Do It yourself approach. We're going to be talking with Dan. Richardson our our friend and legal analyst. Here on the day Graham Show and Wd FM and am in the latter the program. This morning Dan will be joining us also by telephone to talk about the The what people ought to be thinking about it they are starting to have Have thoughts about About making sure that they're they're like he's a plan for and You know I don't WanNa be overly morbid here. I just want folks to be able to have whatever information Might be useful in these times. obviously The Corona virus is is Expected to Killing a number of people in the United States of America over the coming months We don't know how many obviously many of the steps that are being taken now are designed to limit that outcome and But remember we all are GonNa die someday in some of the information that we would talk about in terms of in terms of what to do about drafting a will Should come in useful at some point in your life even if even if you think Any fears about the current situation are are overblown or whatever. I think the The word we're getting from responsible voices out there is it the fears that people have been voicing in a recent weeks Certain here a lot about him in the media and so on not really overblown Anthony FAUCI was on national television yesterday. Talking about Dr Anthony. Fauci talking about the The fact that It's very very hard to or estimate where we are in the course of a pandemic because every time you turn around the situation is matching. What may previously have been Considered an exaggeration Basically and so We're again. We are in And Very Uncertain Times very difficult times I wanna be a source of information and and also just an ability for folks to call up and share their thoughts about You know what what they can do to Give Comfort and solace to our friends and neighbors here in our W W E listening community You know this is Something none of us has ever been through before and we are obviously WanNa make it as as smooth a processes we can if If that's possible as we go forward into these coming weeks and months here Speaking of weeks in monsoon the president yesterday really adopted a what a lot of folks are describing is a new tone on this a much more somber tone. He earlier on was pretty dismissive about the whole thing. A couple of weeks ago is calling it. A hoax being exaggerated by Democrats. The damage him politically and now he is talking about the idea that we may be in some trouble of at least through as he put it. July or August of this summer Other commentators have been out with less Twenty four hours saying that that's That is a guest and people talk about educated guesses based on very limited education because We have not had a situation like this in the United States. Exactly like this before in the In the modern age and so who knows it's really We're going to have to see what comes. And that's we're all getting a pretty stiff lesson in life uncertainty right now. It does seem if you have any thoughts or ideas or comments that you would like to share here on the Dave Graham Show and Wd FM and am and open the phone lines for the first half hour or so of the program Before we are joined by Mark Bushnell and we are going to be here in available to you for your thoughts to be shared two four four one seven seven seven is the local number here in. Waterbury the toll free number one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five We Have Rama on the line from Williamstown. Good Morning Rama boy. You're you're being a real w donor this morning. It's a tough time. Isn't it? Well Yeah I'm but that doesn't mean you have to be entirely down. I you know. Can I leased uplift the spirits? A little bit as we move forward. I know there every expectation is that yes it gets worse before it gets better but every expectation in everything we know from past history with these sort of things means it it does get better and eventually you know we do reach an end of this one. So yeah that that's really. I you know as people who do the things that are necessary to get through to that end of the tunnel is to realize that there is an end to this and that it isn't just a forever thing I mean if it turns out to be forever fine I'm wrong but in which case you know it's going to really then then. You're not a Debbie Downer. Well I I don't I'm trying to trying to be Responsible here and I don't WanNa be overly pessimistic. I don't to be I don't WanNa be overly Pollyanna cheater. Let'S LISTEN NO I. I agree you're doing fine but you're still being a Debbie Downer. That right I also just want to. You know I think one of the points to make here for the last twenty years. We've heard a lot about Thank you for your sacrifice and thank you for your service as we you know. We hear that from people talking about various uniform services. This is time for people to stop saying. Thank you for your sacrifice. Thank you for your service and start providing that sacrifice and service. This is everybody's opportunity to be equally involved. You don't need any special skills to help get a community through this type of event just needs to be part of the community and that's how we will get through this. Yeah that's a that's a good. That's a good point Rama What do you Give me some ideas for what people ought to be thinking about doing. I I sorta here as he chatted online about You know I don't really know what to do. People say well I listen to I if you don't know what to do call up a neighbor and talk to them. Yeah you know that. That's at least something and I understand you know. Part of part of what makes us can make a situation worse as a feeling of helplessness. And you feel helpless when you feel like there's nothing you can do so find something even if it's simple stupid like calling your neighbor to do i. My intention is to get around to the immediate neighborhood here and whether people wanNA talk through doors or stand six feet away you know. I don't care if they WANNA stand closer. I'm fine with that too but you know just so people in the neighborhood know that we're looking out for each other because it's it's not just the concerns about health and food. There's also you know the possibility of needing to you know. People taking advantage of the situation of fi more houses to break in etc. So there's lots of things that you can do is a local community to make sure they people stay safe and are taken care of in a lot of your neighbors or maybe even you have things like backhoes etc. That might come in Handy. If if let's say supply chain start to break down some right. Pdf sources of food stocked. Up People might have the availability to start in early garden etc. So I think a big thing for me is all right. Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead on this but I like to get out a step ahead and say what happens if it gets a little bit worse. What is it that we need to be doing? What happens if supply chain breakdown? Where would we be best to Be Able to provide help for each other. You lose gasoline. We've got people up and down in different directions on Here in Williamstown for me that have draft horses that are trained to pull loads. Yeah that's That's those are all good thoughts around my appreciate the call. Stay in touch show. Let's hear from you again soon. let's go to Paul and Moncton. Good Morning Good Morning Dave. Sorry for calling. Today's enroll but I had got the incident but an interaction gentlemen the other day that brought up a question that I didn't have any answer for and I met. I met this guy in line at the supermarket and looked and we're talking about like no trends generally through my business and And that's just like that. He said he's young. He should be able to get through this. You know with our big damage in terms of being in his late Twenties early thirties. Maybe mentioned his wife is pregnant and I got thinking I've heard about elderly. We've heard about you know people at the immune It's what about pregnant women and or Newborns we always hear about newborns. I have a fully developed immune system you talk to a health expert at some point. Get some answers as to whether or not should be staying away from Young newborns or are pregnant women that is a very good question actually You had not across any discussion of that specific question yet and I think what we're I'm going to do is I'm going to see if I can text us someone from the health department and ask if they have put out any advisories geared to That specific part of the population. Because obviously we want to be sure that are that are pregnant. Moms in in our in our newborns are are kept in the best possible and So that's that that's an excellent Suggested thought there Paul and I appreciate the call. Thank you so much my good friend Lee. Tell here in our engineering booth Has a couple of words you might like to share Lee. Yeah I gotTA take issue. It's something you said earlier in the show. Dave where where you implied that no. No one has experienced this type of thing before flora aims Waterbury Center. She's celebrating her one hundred nine th birthday today. Wow so I'm pretty sure. She was at least seven years old when the Spanish flu came through at the end of World War One. I'm not sure what she might be able to share about it. But at least there's one person out there that may have survived and lived to tell the tale that is That is pretty darn good just to live that long. Congratulations Lorella aims of Waterbury. And Wow. That's one hundred and nine years old. You said Yeah. One zero nine today. Congratulations for ELA and happy birthday. Yeah okay well here LE. Let's go ahead and quibbling because what I was thinking when I said that I said I part of my mind at the time was saying yeah we didn't have the Spanish flu one hundred two hundred and three years ago but in this modern world here now where we have all this international travel going on We have the way our economy works. That is so heavily intermeshed with all of this huge worry for a lot. An awful lot of people you know. I it definitely would it was. It was a different world back then so I don't know that you can really make a direct comparison but I will. I acknowledge certainly If folks know how we can get a hold of museums and if she were able to come on our air talk to us about anything she remembers from when she was little girl in that last pandemic I would love to speak with her right. Don't go visit her. Though I one hundred nine she might be one of those vulnerable persons that we WANNA protects. We'd be we'd be talking by phone. I'm pretty sure center. Phone call so I was thinking oddly enough when Rama was discussing the idea of of of taking part in volunteering and stepping up and part of this crisis. The irony that This this outbreak is basically like the the apathetic person's dream scenario. Because what what everybody really wants you to do is go home and do nothing for the next fifteen days. So if you're by doing nothing you are contributing your effort to preventing the spread of the virus here in in Vermont and around. I have seen a couple of memes online. Saying things like you know Previous generations when they went and sacrificed was crow calling through crawling through the mud on some Pacific island These days what you have to do is go. Sit on your couch him. Listen to the radio for the radio. Checkout Netflix whatever. Whatever you got going on it is a Shouldn't be really at that Folks so Heo. We have a caller. Let's go to guy in Berlin. Good Morning Guy. Good Morning Dave so I walked around Mont to your yesterday and talked to a lot of businesses and some nonprofits and just sort of got a sense and some homeless people and their advocates and got a sense of kind of where they're at with all of this and A couple of interesting things. I've found that even though there's not much activity normal activity there's adjustment you might say for example. I stopped an beeper which is a usually a bustling place very active Government advocates one person. There she was making photocopies but everyone else was working at home yes. They weren't there but they were working. went by the the City Hall and narrow additions for frozen have been cancelled except that now. They're taking them. Not In person but by video submission. So there's the auditions are still going on there. Just happening differently. Yes Yup people are adapting right right In in most cases Kellogg Hubbard of course had to close which you know. I know the Library People I. I went to a from a Library Association meeting a couple of years ago and they talked a lot about libraries being Hugs of resilience and sustainability in a community crisis. And it it they they had to close i. You know I'm not. I'm not criticizing but that to me. That is a loss right there when don't have access to Library Insurance Arnie? My son generally does all of his online. He brings his computer over there and uses their WIFI actually have to invest in the thirty bucks a month. Whatever from consolidate communication and get his own and his apartment and I think a lot of other people are. That's one of the adjustments as you say that they're going to have to make yes. They're going to be a lot of adjustments and and You know I think that if if people can sort of keep a What are they used to say? In Britain in the Second World War keepers. Keep a stiff upper lip. I guess is basically Dave the most interesting experience I had was talking with a a homeless street coordinator and some of the homeless people down in the courtyard in front of Trinity. And the first thing you said was the The Lhasa bathrooms when I walked over that way. Subway was still open. And and even though you're not supposed to use it they do By the time I was about to leave speaking with them five an estate or a lady came back and said well just closed subway unless bathroom you know and so they're talking about putting Puerto. Let's in there but it's been hung up because they're in those quarterbacks are located would be located in the Trinity Courtyard in a flood plain so the regulations would say no no no can't put a portal identify play and I mentioned that to Iran do Bradford who's our our one of our senior administration officials financial officials a few minutes later. I said. Hey how about relaxing some of these regulations and I'm happy Darn Puerto. Let's and he said actually. Puerto lattes are a perfect example of hot spots for transmission. And that's the last thing you want to have is a public portal at from transmission point of view. So you have these competing needs and you know where do you where do you? Where do you take care of the need without route increasing the likelihood of transmission? Those those are very very good questions. I I I hope that people are Are Recognizing That You know there are basic needs out there folks and let's keep. Let's keep all that in mind. I mean People have to go to the bathroom so it's not There that's not an optional thing. So let's Let us let us keep in mind. What sort of what? The basic human needs are and keep trying to meet them in some fashion or another guy. Thank you for the call. I appreciate it okay Well I just Wanted to also Mentioned that remember that as of this afternoon the Bars and restaurants around Vermont will be closed for all but Take Out We have an announcement here came out. Actually from the governor's Yesterday Talking about New Guidance in response to Kobe nineteen commonly known as the Novocur Corona virus. Today's guidance updates executive order issued on March thirteenth which declared a state of emergency in Vermont and The governor said yesterday wants to restrict gatherings to fifty or fewer people or fifty percent of the occupancy the rated occupancy of facility and also the governor's ordering the closure of all bars and restaurants. Statewide establishments can continue to offer food. Takeout and delivery service. The measure takes effect at two PM. Tuesday that's Today folks in about I guess Four hours from now so make plans accordingly Let's go to a caller Forbes and current good morning Forbes now that the people and and businesses have made a sacrifice Can we take a look at what goes on within. Let's say the telephone companies credit card companies. The banks things like that on late payments fees of such penalties. Yeah I think I have seen suggestions about that idea. for You know a moratorium. Essentially on on on mortgage payment collections on rent collections and CETERA. That may be something that would be very much worth considering. I think that's an excellent suggestion. Forbes I gotta go to our body our break but thank you for the call. I appreciate that That thought let's do that. Cbs News coming. In and more of the day Graham showed a follow stay with US folks Lawson's finest classic clothing and cutting edge fashion. Are you've sandwiches and grab and go meals toys? A wide selection of Rosa jewelry accessories quarter pound cookies and even more beer. The Yankee magazine doesn't call us the best. One Stop Shopping. Vermont for nothing. The warrants store where funky friendly in almost world famous. It's the Dave Ramsey show. Wd FM and am. We are back and I wanted to choose our next guest. Marc Bushnell is a longtime Vermont writer. And I think there's at least one book to his name and maybe a couple we can find out more about that From mark he's on the phone with us this morning. He writes a lot about Vermont history and had a very interesting piece the other day and veto Dot Org. Excuse me about the last Corona virus update in our Rather Corona virus about the last Pandemic in Vermont the Spanish flu pandemic of a of a nineteen eighteen nineteen nineteen. Good Morning. Margaret Bushnell. Thanks for joining me. Marquis thanks Glad to be here. Yeah sorry that this wasn't. It's not a happier time to be on the show. Yeah well you know I think we History helps to helps us to put things in perspective. And that's one of the things I love about. Your column is that so many times you you sort of. Take a a threat of what is going on in the current Seen in Vermont and say Here's how something similar or related or whatever played out before and I think it's important In it really provides some some great perspective I think for folks and so Kudos general on your work I I really enjoy it and BTU and in other publications that have run your stuff in the past and but talk to us a little bit about this about the situation and we are just just past the hundredth anniversary of the Of the it's called the Spanish flu although I guess a lot of folks that's a misnomer talked a little bit about what happened in Vermont back. Then yeah I mean I think it's an interesting story to look apples because of the similarities And the differences I mean and the differences are pretty important But it was a case where Vermont sort of winning lockout for a bunch of weeks And people had to deal with it. I mean I think People weren't as used to being as but of course you know. I think small communities were thriving and people were used to seeing neighbors but over time the state. Eventually you know shut down schools and and Louis houses trinkets and things like that but I think it's important. It's amazing to look at the station that had particular endemic caused because Vermont about fifty thousand promoters fell sick and in nineteen eighteen and then in the nineteen a total of twenty one hundred Died which is amazing in a population about half the size. We have now I mean this was totally different ailment. and in some ways much more terrifying because because of the people killed more than half of the victims were in their twenties and thirties and forties which As Montessori Michael Sherman is point out made the Spanish flu particularly Tragic because a lot of people dying when their middle years these parents so a lot of children were left after the pandemic with only one parent or no parent and they were often off to live with relatives elsewhere. I mean I think a lot of your listeners may have a family history where you know a grandparent or great aunt. Or you know great grandparents or something Passed away in in in the epidemic And the and and it was also a lot more The mortality rate was a lot higher. I mean looking at the estimate was probably two and a half to four times As as deadly people who showed symptoms as the corona virus And a lot of that is because they didn't have things like Antibiotics which you know. Of course don't treat doesn't create influenza but it it treats killing people then which were the secondary Bacteria bacterial infections like pneumonia Which were was the leading cause of death in they also didn't have anti-viral drugs ventilators. So we're all taping away We do they have any any. I mean anything analogous to you. Know people talk about ventilators respirators that kind of equipment today? Anything like that back then. What's that I'm sorry? I didn't catch that just wondering you know talked a little bit about medical equipment. People are talking about possible. Shortages of things like ventilators and respirators. Today if if if a large number of Americans become ill and overcrowded hospitals and so on but none of that stuff was available back then right right now. I mean I think basically they. They didn't really know what to do with people You know people just become in and I think they were given liquids or you know what they could yeah. People just died really quickly and From the Spanish flu Because I mean they'd they'd come in one day and they often you know they'd be dead in their bed the next day. It was Horrifyingly quick And like you said that I mean there just weren't many talked I wrote about this back. In nineteen ninety eight on the eightieth anniversary was able to talk to some strivers In in one of the guy in centers said that you know the cure back then. Everything was chicken soup and the the deaconess of local church made a huge hot. It used a wheelbarrow dip like take the pot around to her neighbors and just gave him soup. Because you know what else are you gonNA do? Yeah that's that is You know I mean I know you do have to sort of marvel at the at the degree to which medical science has advanced in the past In the past century when you reflect on on Kind of how how basic and rudimentary it was back. Then compared to What treatments are available? We hope you know and we hope enough of them In the modern era here What do you? What do you think would be Sort of the number one lesson you would want people to take from the Vermont's experience in that era. Yeah I mean I guess number. One lesson probably I mean I think sort of the state's done an okay job. it The the mistake they made or one mistake they made was I mean they I got word of it in in late September and they were saying but probably not going to close any public meetings and a week. Later you know peop- They're like Berry. Which is the hardest hit community during this You know is losing like ten people a day and then and then to a week later they decided to go ahead and shut down state schools churches and theaters and prohibited public gatherings and it's I mean I think that's just it you know that the solutions are sort of simple For the average person which is just really Heed the warning about social distancing. I mean we're all going to have to pretend it's one really snow day Yeah I I I I it's it's a completely different feeling I must say now. What do people write in any memoirs or whatever about about the sort of sense of foreboding? I mean my sense now. Is that a lot of people are are it's it's hard emotionally for some people because they sort of feel And I don't WanNa be accused of being a Debbie Downer by the caller was earlier today but I You know a lot of people are feeling pretty oppressed by this in some ways. Because they don't know what's coming they don't know It is that sense of foreboding. Isn't it yeah I mean I I? I've been reading about What psychologists have been saying? Which is that humans deal with uncertainty a lot worse than deal with certainty I mean you know so. I think the idea that that you know something. We're lucky that we're not the You know other countries yesterday and you can learn from the failures that way. I mean I think that I mean back in in in the Spanish influenza air. They really didn't know what was coming either. I mean they. They made the mistake of even thinking. It was a Spanish influenza in reality it probably started in Kansas and was taken by American troops to Europe and The thing was that all the countries that were fighting censored their newspapers and they didn't as much earlier. They didn't want word to get out that they were having an epidemic in their countries so they censored the newspapers Spain with neutral and they wrote about it. So being disassociated with Spanish influenza so it is It is kind of remarkable. How information gets distorted like that and and and really can have an impact on the way people sort of think about historical events. You know here here. We are a century later. Talk a little bit about About the People's behaviors around The That that flu epidemic back. Then I mean was where people hoarding toilet paper or anything or were. They don't think so. I thought that the sears catalog was the preferred to okay for that houses at the time. But I know I mean. I haven't heard that many stories about bad behavior. I you know I went through and read a lot of newspapers at the time. And you do see you know. Funeral homes prominently advertising. You know their wares in newspapers and you know and a men's clothing store saying don't go without your out your raincoat you know. Catch it difficult or whatever you need to. Do you know troubling times or something like that and people people were using it to promote their businesses. They weren't you. Know Boarding. Hand sanitizer in jacking up the price but well actually not that. I read in Vermont at least. Yeah that's I TAKE IT'S A. It's a fairly reminder when you mentioned the sears catalog because I was I was We were in touch with a relative of mine Over the weekend who was remarking that the She's she's traveled widely in Africa and other Other developing parts of the world and so on and and and And she you know she was remarking that in many parts of the world people who have never seen a role toilet paper and they get along and somehow somehow people do Do Survive Where WE WANNA go into too many details? Exactly what happens but that's We have a caller on line. Tom From Worcester. Good Morning Tom. Hello Hello Okay this is. Tom Occurred in Worcester. And I'm calling to tell you about a book of poems. They'll envoy road and it was about the Spanish flu and experiences. She's a people that she's talked to Who who lived through the flu and or who didn't and it's called Kyri woj or I e and it's been book of poems and she. She was a locally poet. Oh sure yeah I I wasn't. I'm not familiar with that. That's fascinating that it's a really really touching book How how people died or how. They didn't their personal experiences which she Recreated in her own poems and You know this is available like some of the local bookstore or I've had a copy for years and years and put. I bought another copy to send to a friend just recently at the bear pond bookstore. So Wow I I know that bear pond book is is Somewhat Limited. But they are They are talking about doing deliveries and doing You can pick pick things up at their back door So called bear five bucks if you WanNa if you WANNA get a get a copy of the of this This is Refreshment at first name. It's Ellen Melania weight and and And Book is Kyrie. It's a book of poetry reflecting on the flu epidemic of of of nineteen eighteen nineteen. Marc Busch shown my mark. Thank you for the call Tom. That's a that's an excellent Great suggestion excellent suggestion. Yes mark are you. Are you familiar with that buck? Yeah I read it twenty years ago when I Back when I 'cause I when I wrote on the eightieth anniversary but I have to admit I haven't reread it but I think we're all going to have plenty of time to do reading. The people are coming up with quite a reading list right now. Of course there's journal of the plague year by Daniel Defoe. That was probably one of the original major works of Literary Journalism Back in the black flag days of UH and and and who's There's another I think there's a book The Plague Camus and others. I've seen I've seen. She suggested by folks online. There probably is a you know. Sort of Larry Collection folks could familiarize re familiarize or familiarize themselves with over the next couple of weeks. Would you're hanging around the house looking for stuff to do as long as they don't create themselve backed by? Because you know situation. Yeah I just say I. I recently read a book. It's not exactly related. But it was on Lights and London during the blitz and I you know I found oddly comforting because you look at what the Brits got your when the Germans were bombing them nightly for months You know in death could come at any time and headache like they stuck it out and I read that and I was like. Wow what they're asking us to do in comparison is shit on your couch. It's not that hard you know. I mean it's Debbie. I don't mean to make light. Economic challenges some people are going to face but in terms of the the dangers. You know we just need to be smart and vigilant. Oh you asked before about how people were behaving at the time and it was interesting reading newspapers where I mean Their work aces of after things got banned. That like I think it was a pool hall in Rutland that got caught being open And and the mayor saying you know I'm You know I'm GonNa come down hard anyways breaking a new bans on public gathering And and and and again I. I don't I don't know if there was a a sense during the Spanish flu epidemic of did courthouses shutdown back. Then report had to shut itself down and and also A lot of companies had problems because they were experiencing some of them had a fifty percent sick rate I mean fortunately most people survive. But it's you know knock them you know Knocked out of business for a little while and there were some rural exchanges. That had to shut down because the switchboard operator spill. So you know things got quiet wasn't really You weren't able to connect it just enough. This is all right around the time that our our major dairy co ops were just being formed right. I mean a cabinet formed. I think in In one thousand nine hundred. Nineteen just had it centennial and Saint almost co OP. Same Way. Yeah I mean it. Yeah and and something interesting about that is I mean. Do you think about you know after after the flu past life you know went on. I mean it's You know they're still memories and families and such but You know it's it was a huge deal while it was happening and then actually two weeks after Vermont got the equivalent of the all clear and they were The State Board of Health lifted the ban. And pull the gatherings World War One end and people you know except for personal families people sort of forgot about this big episode. Yeah I I wonder It's GONNA be fascinating. I think to see sort of what the memories are going to be. Tanner Twenty one hundred years from now about this episode. We're going through right now. I mean it'll be it'll be fascinating to see kind of how what any any major Lie Lasting impacts will happen on on our on our economy on our social systems etc etc and but that that's what the future bark Bushnell's will be galvanizing about so far enough in the rear view mirror perspective on it that that's that is that is important stuff and Do you have any sense of other research or whatever any other? Any other research underway Looking at other instances of of pandemics affecting Vermont or was that was that really the big one that one. It's the big one when there was something named Vermont. I mean I think there was probably a much worse. epidemic You know back in the sixteen. Hundreds when Europeans first came to the area There's some estimates that Something like ninety percent of the native native American population in New England were wiped out by mysterious diseases. So that I mean that's just you know staggering. That's just you know audio magnitude more than what we're talking about but there's no written record of it you know it's but it is part of the reason that European stop that you know this has been a god given land because of the play came you know came came in and wiped out that people. They've been living here so I mean that's not really my field. That's more archaeology to talk about but From what what I've read about that it's Pretty Nice for sure for sure. Well I I I I I once again. I very much appreciate you. People like you mark who are able to provide us some of this historical perspective about the About that pandemic of nineteen eighteen nineteen nineteen here in Vermont and let us hope that we all get through this in reasonably good shape and I hope you and yours are stay healthy. I WanNa thank you very much for joining me this morning already. We are fast approaching top of the hour here on the Graham. Show we'RE GONNA. Cbs News some words from our sponsors and back with more of our program in In just a few minutes folks and Stay with us. We're going to be talking with Dan. Richardson about Dell legal planning legal issues. for folks who are thinking about The Corona virus. We'll be back. There's comfort in the familiar but when light presents us with something exciting we just have to embrace it with so many of our neighbors producing such wonderful products. We just have to show and tell the world come in and see for yourself. The old standbys alongside the new changes. Good the one thing that never changes is our commitment to making your visit a great experience the warrants store where funky friendly almost world-famous newsradio. Wd Am now back to the day. Bram show thank you for staying with us into our second hour of the Dave Graham. Show here on. Wbz FM and am are call in number two four four one seven seven seven or one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five Do believe we are going to be speaking very shortly with one of our. Cbs News National Correspondence to try to get a picture of what is going on out there in the broader world beyond Vermont's borders related of course to the corona virus outbreak in. What's happening nationally? I WANNA talk with Steve Little Bit about the Ohio. Primary that's one of four primary scheduled for today I always decided not to conduct the voting in the Buckeye state Today Pretty fundamental thing when you cancelled election it sounds like just thing that doesn't happen in America but This these are range times folks and So the governor of Ohio. I guess in the senior health official health officer for the State of Ohio. Last night there declared no election today no primary election today. I believe they're putting it off for a for a couple of months Maybe till June I expect they will want to eventually have a gift for you. Folks a chance to weigh in who their preferred presidential candidates are but as of today Not happening thing so That is a fascinating development. There Now we also are GONNA be I wanted to mention Speaking a little bit later this hour with Dan Richardson. He is An attorney based in my failure frequent guest on Dave Graham show. We like to bring Dan in to provide some perspective on legal issues in the state of Vermont. We had him on last week to talk about. What the Impact might be on our judiciary system in the state of the corona virus outbreak I don't think anybody new back then. exactly how severe this would be and how people would respond to it. but Sure enough. The court system is Is greatly reduced in terms of his? Its activities This Week Emergency hearings only and That is GONNA be setting some calendars skew. Shall we say? I'm sure in the coming weeks months for the judicial system. Today Dan Rea. It makes a return again engagement here. We're going to be speaking with him. I I think mainly about How to think about The possibility that folks might want him Look at Drawing up a will Last will and testament what happens with your property and your funds and etc on the in the event of your death and How does all that unfold? Once you are no longer around to Call the shots of what happens with your with your stuff and So we're going to be speaking with Dan about that Again I I don't I don't WanNa be overly morbid here or anything. But this is the time when when I think it's safe to say most of the public health officials are warning us that that death rates are going to go up in the United States. Basically means more people are need to be thinking about their own demise We all eventually meet that somehow or some way and This may prompt Getting things done that people might. What have been doing thinking about anyway. Even a absentee all of this all his worry about the corona virus outbreak. You believe we. Now have a connection with Steve Dorsey. Cbs News and is Is Steve There? Hello? Good Morning Steve. How are you healthy or nothing? Yeah well I'm I'm glad to hear you healthy at goes here to and and Tell me a little bit about What is going on out there? In the broader world. The Ohio primaries cancelled Are Is that. Is there a formal date? Now for rescheduling and add. Or where are we on that? Not Personally Will about main target month to these things? But we're still following the primaries. You do have Florida Literally seizing You know it'll be probably you very different With not a great turnout Considering all the home and the water a are they going to be differences in the APP in the actual operations of polling places. Are People going to be trying to enforce a six foot physical separation between people in line? Or how how? How does this actually pulled off them? Physical basis today. Well you know a lot of Calls form speeds to extend access to mail building to absentee dating And I think that more than the jumps incorrect as anti virus spreading so closely old emotions and then of course it would I gather involve extended extending the deadline. I mean if a lot of states Vermont like this right has extensive early voting these days but the actual election day ours was march third for the primary Is Sort of the deadline. You know in other words you you can't go. Vote March fourth or fifth or whatever as a general matter and The is that GonNa Change in these states which which are trying to grapple with US Corona virus or how. How is that What's the general drift there? Well you know I think the Old Right so I think anything is possible and easy team similar to our daily kimes ended. I think that this new thing for elections visiting affecting campaigns including vote measures rallies have been eliminated league to hurt Bernie Sanders especially because he has thrived on these rallies especially young energy people are only exacerbates campaigns including Sanders and Biden's are holding these teleconference types or sort of rallies not nearly as effective but Kevin Stances Yeah. I mean that's all that's all they got so he got a sort of make. Do I guess but Wanted to ask you about the change in tone. I heard so much. Remarking about change in tone from the president yesterday Is this something that is is Is Likely to stick now. Or or is he Sort of volatile enough that he may go back to Kind of the the less serious approach that he had been dated earlier on as of later today or tomorrow or something. They'll stick I think is settling and I think a lot of what working for the next. Yeah I mean I. Is this really a function of his people gathering around him and saying no? This is really serious. It's not a hoax. And it's and it's not anything to be taken lightly and and Is that kind of what's happened here or is it more a matter it. Just kind of sinking in From to him as a as a matter of his in his own mind. Yeah I think I think that is Is so many concerns are both right now? I think that's GONNA be Something that campaigns and local officials. I'm really GONNA watch them. Yeah well let's keep watching it Steve Dorsey CBS News. Thank you so much for joining me. This morning I really appreciate it. Talk you already. We want to open the phone lines. I think briefly here We may maybe hearing a from Dan. Richardson very shortly on our on our phone here. Dan We'll be checking in with us to talk about Drafting Wills and How how that works what. What people are thinking Let's see We have Chris in Waterbury on the line. Good Morning Chris I good morning. Dave appreciate you taking my call here. Sure listen I got a question for you. Maybe you can help me out here to your connections there on radio and whatnot. I called the White House this morning. Actually got a hold of a Gal there. That takes comments. I've been kind of watching what's going on with this Stimulus effort or the financial efforts by the the administration down there in DC and. I'm scared to death with the way that they're approaching all this It seems as though that they're just dumping everything into the pot that they possibly can with no real results. In fact I believe that on the other end of this thing. What they've done now is going to probably impact us. More workers are just racking up the national debt and giving out money with with little or no Thought Process Behind Where it's gone and and how it's helping people so Last night at the board meeting I mentioned the possibility of what if the administration could require all lending institute to defer everybody's payments whether it be a mortgage payment of vehicle payment small business payment any of those types of things. Defer them for the next four months put him on the other end that would give everybody the ability to stay at home or a morbidity ability to stay at home and get this thing over with with little impact to the economic system. Because I'm just afraid that racking up the national debt and throwing all this money out there as you know they drop the interest rates zero percent there on Sunday and look what happened to the mean. Stop working just plummeted. Yeah so I didn't know if you through your Avenues might concern is and I asked the Gal there that I was talking to if there was any way I could talk to the president or the vice president. I said I know they're busy. I'm trying to stop this before they do too much damage through that idea out there The town manager and everybody else seemed to think it was a smart idea because nobody loses. I mean the loan. The lending institute still get their money. It's kind of on the other end but yet it gives everybody this ability to The more able to stay at home and and Corentin themselves and stop this thing while they can you know. So that's it for the most part Appreciate you taking my call. And if there's anything you can do on your help on your end to get it to somebody down to. White House. One of the reporters getting gets in front of the president and says how about this idea instead of doing what you're doing because I just heard him this morning. Talk about their alternatives Efforts and scares the hell out of me. Well Chris I I actually I have heard some chatter about this I or seen it online this idea of of basically putting putting regular Payments for things like bank loans on mortgages or or an for rents and so on On hold for a few months Obviously that would be a gigantic relief to an awful lot of people who are GONNA be Either out of work or working very very limited basis in the next Next this next period of time and I believe I'm going to be having as a guest on the program tomorrow. Art Wolff. Who's a friend of Wd V of a terrific economist. Ray thoughtful fellow. I'm going to put the question to him about whether he he would think such a thing. Such an approach might be Might be a workable thing. I mean I I really don't I'm I'm definitely not A. I'm not an economist. I'm not an expert on. I don't know what the impact would be On if we're suddenly decided that That you know we were GonNa take a effectively bank holiday of sorts More or less. Yeah and And you know I'm I'm I'm far from telling you it's a bad idea. I just don't know what the what the ramifications are and. I think it's a darn good question. I do plan on pursuing it tomorrow with a so tune in tomorrow morning. I believe we're going to be having art wolf on as a guest and he's going to be he's GonNa be. I'M GONNA put that question to him. See what he thinks so ball. I'll be listening to all right. Thank you for the call. Appreciate it very much Let's go to bill in Wakefield. Good Morning Bill. Good Morning Actually. I. I'm just off hitchhiking along with Chris there. I'm glad you brought that up. I was in the process. Actually have writing to Senator Leahy about the similar thing and But I I go a step farther with that. You know the the banks were you know pretty much caused what went on in two thousand eight and They came through it smelling like many many roses and they did an awful lot of really bad things. You know that were involved in that that you know did not you know. We're not big news but Their activities you know in foreclosures and so forth were You know we're we won't even go there at this point. I think I think really netting that out is that it's time it's time for them to give back on this and I would go a step further and say rather than defer payment I think what they should be doing is yeah. I mean maybe defer the payment but not be charging interest so if somebody is five years into a mortgage. They can't make their mortgage payments. Now they You know they they. I mean sure. Give them the principal. You know you know Twenty five years down the line but but not the thousands of dollars that those payments are going to you know AD on in accrued interest. Yeah I I I actually think that You know that's a that's a corollary to this overall thrust here I I would expect that a proposal which might say. Let's let's hold off on basically you know Mortgage Payment Holiday Inn red holiday For the coming The coming Four months or whatever People decide is the right length time And then and then at the other end of it you're not going to be suddenly whacked with a with a a catch up interest payments or something That that basically This is This is something that is. A genuine relief in is not And is not a Not GonNa be smacking you later on. So I I do. I get where you're going with that Bill and I appreciate appreciate the thought and once again I. I'm not an expert on this stuff. I'm I'm actually not an expert on a macho. I sort of moderate radio. Show here doing what you do. I try to modern moderate between the various thoughts of callers out there like you and I really appreciate the participation of our. Wd listeners. So thanks for the call Bill. It's already Two four four one seven. Seven seven is the local number. Here in Montpellier I gather that there may be some A banker or two out there in our listening audience this morning who could call up and share with us You know obviously I would guess you took courses on the banking industry when you were in college and university and and understand what the ramifications of such an idea might be. I'd be really curious to hear what folks who Who Work in that industry Might be thinking this morning. They hear this conversation on the radio where folks are calling up and saying essentially Let's take a holiday from from a mortgage payments And and and again. I had rents because I think a lot of times Basically you know one of the big impetus is through collecting rents if your landlord is so that you can pay the mortgage on the building You you won't you buy a place with say four apartments and I gotTa make a big monthly mortgage payment and you do so in large part by collecting rents from your tenants Certainly if those Rents were Massari. If your mortgage payment where we're going to be put on hold for a few months than I think folks would expect that you would be passing that That benefit. Or however you want to describe it onto On down the chain to The folks who are who are normally would be paying you rent from the income. They perhaps get down at the local cafe which is now closed because of order of the governor. So you see how all of this is Really it's not a ripple effect folks as giant waves a coursing across our economy right now and really having an impact on on Individual lives out there and I do I. I do think that we are ready to start. Maybe making some big steps here to try to try to figure out how we. Yeah we bail this ship out because I it seems like it might be in dangerous thinking. I don't know I you know again. I'm going to get that Debbie Downer charge but I I really have have a fear for. What's what's going to look like next week. I don't think anybody had a clue as of You know Tuesday Whatever last Tuesday wars marks the march the third that the Martin? I don't know A week ago nobody had a clue we go and we would be where we are right now and so. I think anybody who has thinks they have a crystal ball and tell us exactly. What next Tuesday's GonNa look like in America is not Not playing with a full deck at this point I don't know the so Two four four one seven seven seven the local number here in Waterbury One eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five and we are hoping that we'll be hearing from identity. Richardson a fairly shortly To check in with us and talk to us a little bit about what you need to be thinking about if you wanted to I saw some Interesting speculation on line this weekend. Where people saying is it time to write my wealth and And how do I do that and do? I actually need to go see a lawyer or can a person do this. is a basic will out there floating around online. We fill in the blanks And can we. Can we use that at Saturday? And and We're hoping to have a little conversation about that Very shortly Hey by the way I want to mention our podcast here on the Dave Graham show. Wd FM and am. A lot of folks are busy between nine eleven. Am At least in the normal course of life. They are when people are worker. GonNa they're going to the dentist or the doctor or whatever and they tell me Boy I wanted to listen to your show this morning because you had an interesting topic on something I've been following and But I missed it because I was in the dentist chair. Or or whatever Well remember you can always go to our WD EV RADIO DOT com. That's the homepage for the For the Radio Vermont Group in an wd. Follow the link from that homepage to the Dave Ramsey. Show and scroll down a bit and you will find a list of our recent programs. I try to describe them a little bit by topic by guest and you figure out That's the one where we had such and such a state official talking about hunting or whatever. The topic was that day. And if that's your topic that you want to hear about that's the one you might WanNa pick I Obviously welcomed listen to your heart's content there The war stories been sponsoring our podcast out for at least a year. I think maybe more than a year. And we're grateful we we I WANNA thank the war in store for for for helping us out with that and also wanted. Just want to mention that I Love the Warren starts a real Vermont Institution and It's just a charming place. If you've never been there to go down there and and check out their terrific Deli sandwiches Their wide range of beverages local for my beers are available. You can't there but they They do have them and And then upstairs is. There's a a really interesting in ECLECTIC clothing and housewares section of that store and So it's classic Old Vermont General Store Down there and we we really We really appreciate the fact that they have been a big supporter of our podcast. All of this time here on the day Graham Show on wd EV FM and am. Hey ELYSSA LISTEN TO A. Let's get a caller on line here. Fred from Newbury's check in Good Morning Fred Lawrence Day. The interesting thing about this. What about the flu of their excoriate flu now is if you go back to the Middle Ages? The plague Destroyed Europe via a third of the population was joke but it led to the alleged the new enlightenment renaissance. You seek to. Kuroda virus could lead us to a new renaissance. Wow you know. I. I don't Know Fred I would've thought heck why not let's I mean maybe we should think about it that way and say Here's our chance to to try to enlighten ourselves. And and they're really examined Some of the some of the socialist inhabits that other things that we do from top to bottom here You know maybe we need to rethink a lot. I mean let. Let's just say climate change for example just as one one thing imagine. Imagine folks said We need to scale back on some of our favorite activities in order to protect the earth against climate change and and And here we are getting along without what a lot of our favorite activities are now for several weeks here and it'll be a lesson to tell us you know you can if you decide I don't know Major League. Sports may be A BJ's maybe we won't fill stadiums anymore and all those all that travelling that occurs when people go to stadiums carbon right just a thought. I mean if Fred I I get I get what you're saying forechecking to go to Bottom of the hour break here on the day grab show. Wd FM and am. Let's go to Let's go to some. Cbs News more sponsors. And we'll see if we can find in Richardson. Get Him to chat with us on the other side. We'll be back in a few minutes folks Lawson's finest classic clothing and cutting edge fashion. Are you sandwiches and grab and go meals toys? A wide selection of Rosa jewelry accessories quarter pound cookies and even more beer. Yankee magazine doesn't call us the best one. Stop shopping in Vermont for nothing. The warrant store where funky friendly in almost world famous Graham show. Wd FM and am. We are back in. We believe we have Dan. Richardson on the line. Now for my attorney former president of the Vermont Bar Association Danny. You with us. I am excellent. Good Morning. Thank you so much for joining me problem. Sorry you can't be in. The studio is usually not normally when you are on our air here. You kindly make a trip over to Waterbury. We're not doing that. Because we are social distancing and all that good stuff in this Age of the corona virus. And but then I wanted to check in with you in particular today because I saw Some online chatter over the weekend relating to Folks asking questions about are we at a time when people are are Getting interested in drafting wills and and And and preparing for What we are all. GonNa face Someday Corona virus or no and that is our own demise is the time when people are maybe reminded that they need to be Eventually thinking about this and figuring out a plan and What what do you What do you recommend here? What do you think people do something here or or am I being overly Morbid or tell me what your thoughts are? Well I think anytime you have this type of crisis or emergency or even just reminder That you know. We are mortal mortal creatures. This kind of topic comes up because it's something we don't like to think about and I think most of us don't reflect on a daily basis. Novus GET UP. And say hey. It's time to get that. Will we haven't done planning for when we die? but I think it's it's good and it's an important thing for people to think about regardless of the circumstances. And you know if this is something that forces people to confront that question That's not a bad thing because wills are important devices that everyone Above a certain age really needs. Would you say that the the ages and what When when I mean if people were going to really be well planned about their life and and you should have a will by year share. I mean you know the the reality is if you don't have a will and and this is part of what you have to think about if you don't have will There's a series of intestate probate laws that govern so And that just basically says that if someone dies without a will everything goes to their. If they don't have a spouse to their kids they don't have kids to their parents and if you think about if you're twenty two years old You're just getting out of college or you know even working for a few years. You probably don't have that many assets. Your parents are probably still alive. You may or may not be married. THE LAWS. GonNa take care of it a wills not GonNa really change a lot When I recommend people to get will is usually when they have something substantial that they wanna make sure is passed along so you know at say at age twenty three you strike it rich on. Dot Com investment. You now have three million You probably want a will to to direct that because you may you may not want it to go to your parents or you may not want it to go to a spouse. You may have charitable gifts that you WanNa make and you can only do that through a will But the big thing for most people Is when they have kids and once you have kids you really need a will Because one of the things that happens in a will often. Is you set up a trust for your kids. So if something happens to you and your spouse or partner or you know the two immediate parents or whoever in your immediate family aren't available your will is the document that you use to create a guardianship for who's going to take care of the kids if something happens to both of you and to put all of your assets and trust for your kids so that when they turn eighteen or when they turn a certain age that you'd you'd denote They will have access to this. This money. Everything you've you've earned up to that point and so you know that's an important thing and that's I I can say for myself personally. That's when I got a will is when our first child was born because at that point prior to that you know we had assets. We had things but wasn't necessarily anything that we needed a special device or document to take care of but after that we wanted to make sure that if something happened to both of us you know we had Our guardians named and laid out. And that's for a lot of people but I think the other thing zinc keep in mind is that you know will become different over time and I often call it. The three ages of of wills is that You will often need a certain type of will when you're young You'll need a different kind. Wants the kids are grown up and have left the house. But you're in you're sort of middle aged and and prime and making so working possibly then there's the final will that really is your estate. Planning will where you're starting to think about the end and starting to think about this. It starts to look less and less like a insurance actuary stable and much more of a potential reality And those are those are different wills of them and they represent different different values. And you know it's often an estate planning attorney. Who can help you through those kinds of things to say you know? What where are you at? What are your priorities? What do you what do you need? What are you trying to protect so if you were in this process of making a decision that excuse me you WanNa will right now Your is that your first. Stop you basically Call the Bar Association. Get give me a list of of estate planning attorneys or what are you. What are you recommend is the first step here? Well certainly contacting an attorney. You have a relationship with to give you. Advice is is always a good staff if you have that establish relationship they may or may not feel comfortable doing a will and and frankly for most people it's not An necessarily a complicated estate planning Process it's a very simple will. I mean I've written wills for a number of clients that are two to three pages and because it's you WanNa keep it simple and you want to keep it straightforward And you want to be clear And so a lot of times you can talk to your attorney that you've used for real estate transactions. And if they don't do it they'll probably know somebody who does And can make a recommendation. But yeah if you if you do find yourself without a connection. The Bar Association is that is that next step is to because they do have a list of those and you know as I say. Writing a will is not. It's not rocket science. It's not a complicated thing. Only if you have complicated things and I can give an example. I had I had a friend who had Inherited from his parents An art collection. That was a real art classes. And it wasn't it wasn't the kids are at work Framed up it was it. Was things that were you know worth worth a million dollars or millions of dollars and you know creating a trust and creating documents That would support that collection because that collection had to stay as a collection keep its value That's where you can get into complications. And that's where you have to be a little bit more thoughtful but for most of us. If we own a house you know part of it is thinking about what we have and what we don't have and what's protected so take your house for example you probably own it if you're if you're married or you know You own it with your spouse and that is a tenant by the entirety which means that if something happens to you the House immediately goes to your spouse. You don't have to go through. Probate court you don't have to do any extra steps. It's automatic okay. And so you know the for that. A number of people that's their big asset and so the fact that that's already taken care of is fine. Of course you then have the question of the last person standing. What do they do with the House And that's that's where state planning attorneys can get involved as far as you know sort of end of life things. And they have enhanced life estate deeds that can help that process But in general You know your big asset. Your House is taken care of. If you have life insurance or any type of policy with a beneficiary that does not get handled by your will that automatically goes to the beneficiary. It's the It's the state the I mean. The estate is limited to the items. Where there isn't clear title You know your car A bank account if you have it alone and you don't have any right of survivorship on it you're close the knickknacks and furniture in your house. Your you know your pans and baking where you know. Those are the things that go into the estate and those are the things you know. They often have sentimental value but they don't have a great deal of Monetary VALUE DO. They ended up getting listed anywhere. I mean in terms of You know I've I mean if I have a couple of old musical instruments around the House that I think You know my kids aren't gonNA platies. Maybe I should donate them to the high school band programmers. I probably should do that while I'm living but I mean I I Just wonder Did he get that detailed? Typically you're not not not in the will what happens after the will is activated by the court that the executor. That's their first. Job is to do an inventory of the estate and figure out what's there because you know up until then you don't. WanNa make a list because if you do have those instruments and somebody says hey. The marching band would really like that local high school and you donate it to him. It can create confusion if you have in your will For a number of reasons one is everybody's GonNa go looking for these instruments because they may not realize you have given them away and not waste a lot of people time To if you're if you're sort of creating these lists where you know Peter get so much Paul get so much. Jane get so much And it seems to be equal and Lo and behold. You know. Half of Paul's list was given away before you died That can create chaos and Paul can say wait a minute. We need to Redo these lists because these were intended to be equal and you know through either mistake or you know not thinking I've gotten short changed and you know whether or not that argument is accepted can be a lot of blood spilled or a. Lotta ink spilled on the on the page before that's done and a lot of lawyers involved before that's done and so the way that gets avoided again is what it's generally what. I tell people to do if they're GONNA if they're not going to do the normal. You know everything to my spouse everything to my kids or if you have multiple kids you do what you do it in percentages you know half to my after my son have to my daughter You know or and make provision so that if there's another child you know especially if you're young. You know you WANNA keep that door open because I can tell you that my will. My son isn't mentioned because he wasn't born yet I haven't updated it because I made provision that any future offspring would get their equal shares so But I mean those kind of things you wanNA keep that sort of loose and very simple and very general you know in part of it too. Is You have to trust your family to sort of work. Some of these things out and you know the other thing is that this this again is sort of those those three ages if you're in the third age and you're thinking of creating this will you know part of it too. I always recommend to people get rid of the stuff. Start giving it away. The how people enjoy these. If you have a you know a chest that you think your nephew would enjoy. Then give it to them and then see if he enjoys it and see you know and enjoy that because if you'd wait until afterwards you're not gonNA get any joy out of it Because you'll be gone but these you know Wills are really important. I think sort of circling around back to your initial point is that you know what they do is they give the probate court clear direction when you can no longer speak and so for a lot of people you know they do have different desires for what happens to their Their things after they're gone for very particular reasons you know if they have a companion who they didn't marry but has been there lifelong companion They WanNa make sure that that person is taken care of. The only way you can do that is through a will You know if you have a request that you WANNA make to charitable institution. You can only do that through a will You know if you WANNA give if if for example you have two kids and your son marries a millionaire and your daughter. Mary's a popper You may want to give more of your estate to your daughter because she needs it And your son doesn't the only way you can do that is through well So those kind of those kind of choices that you WanNa make or that you want to do you need. You need a will to direct it. That that is interesting Let me ask you too about You know I when I was reading online this weekend Just a couple of a random posts from people. I started got the impression that there were some folks out there and this is understandable. It this can be you know. Legal services are can be expensive and People may say. Is there any way I could do? A you know a do it yourself. Well or There's this thing I see advertised. I have no idea really how good it is or anything. But it's called legalzoom That seems to advertise this idea that you can go online. And I guess get the right forms and fill might yourself or something what people make of all that. Well I you know I do it. Yourself Wills I I think you take that risk into your own. Hands Wills are not expensive You know I I and I'm baby yourself in the foot by saying this but I do. I do wills you know I'll I'll charge one hundred fifty to do a will or would three hundred dollar you know spousal package with have reciprocal wills and the whole nine yards And that includes some conversation You know I mean that's not an expensive investment for if you think about the value of what you're passing on and how you WanNa make sure that it's passed on correctly You know legalzoom's gotten better and better over the years But wills are one of those documents where the the fine points matter. And if you don't do it right it can. It can blow up and you know a lot of times that may or may not matter But it's a risk and it's one of those things where you know just for example there's a legal requirement that There be two witnesses to a will. And you know if you don't have those two witnesses listed the wills not valid The other issue I often find is people will do a will. And then they'll lose the original More they'll do a series of them and it's unclear which is the final version. You know having it done in a lawyer's office lawyer then can advise you can either keep an original and or send it to probate court to be filed You know that's often a really good Service because it makes again that makes things easier it makes things clearer and wills are really funny about those those nuances and details because the person who wrote the will is never there to say. This is what I wanted and so probably courts get very technical on those kind of thing bright. Bright sure And you know that is kind of an obvious statement but it is something to keep in mind that The idea of you know Doing a job in thinking to myself. Well not quite ready to go back fix later. wills are not really like that folks unless you you know you've already figured out you're gonNA come back as a ghost or something Let's see here Dadis online from Casper. Good morning dotty. Hey yes I'm sure I was talking with your gal fellow and I couldn't hear what you were talking about. I wanted to know whether I could write a hand. Written will right now and sign it and date it in my room and have it illegal. I think we You cover that I can answer that. The new competitive will The answer is no in Vermont. A lot of western states recognize those kind of wills And there's been cases out west where someone carves a will until like a piece of wood But it's not not out east. We don't recognize those kind of wills. There are exceptions such as military Or a particular type of situations but generally no you can't you can't just hand write something. Have it recognized as legal document? And how would I leave the lines at them? Usually go to an attorney The legal niceties. I mean you could when I say have it. A handwritten will doesn't work. You can have a handwritten will that works as long as it meets all of the requirements of a will That that are set out in statute entitled Fourteen You know the the right number. Witnesses signature You know the clear. Bequest of gifts right You know the the language that's required to this is the last will and testament you can do that. But as I was saying before I mean that's that's something. You really need a lawyer to make sure that you've crossed all your T.'s. And dotted all your. I's okay fine. Thank you very much for the call. Appreciate that and I mean. I think that that was where I was sort of going a few minutes ago. Dan when I was asking you about kind of this. Do It yourself. The there's there's a real There's a real duty yourself spirit in. Vermont. I'm sure you know I mean shade tree mechanics and and Every everybody wants to figure out a way a lot of people WANNA figure out a way to even if it's saving fifty bucks or something. They think they've they've had a really good day you know and and and And that's the kind of spirit I was. I was asking about that and it sounds like that's a little bit about you know. Maybe we're we'RE WE'RE DOT. He's going to and but but you're saying not really advisable it's more a matter of. I don't want to call it fantasy but it's kind of It just sort of you know. Maybe sort of one of those. Yeah it'd be nice but it's not it's not a real world. Is that a fair way to look at it. That's a that's a fair way. What's interesting is that you know. There's this falls into the similar category Of A folk law that some some people believe about common law spouses. That you know they they think you. Can you can right away if you handwrite it. You know you're you're okay because it's clear in your handwriting and they think if you live with someone long enough you can have a common law spouse and that's not true in Vermont on either count. It is true in other states especially the western states. And what's interesting is the reason. Why is that you know? When people were settling the west the distance between them and a lawyer or notary or some official could be you know a day's journey or more and so these western states did allow sort of do it yourself Legal documents or or you know the sort of common law marriages but back east. We've we've never allowed that as as a As an acceptable legal practice. So but it's funny because of course that's seeped into the common culture so everybody thinks of these sort of handwritten wills or these common marriages and says I can do this here when you really can't I think some of that's Hollywood. You see scenes in movies where people do that. Kind of stuff you know they. They have common law marriages or they. They They do an awful lot of a lot of stuff that you know Would maybe normally happen in a You know somebody drops a couple coal gold coins in the old western and they suddenly owned the ranch or something you know exactly and never mind the closing and the mortgage insurance and all that stuff you wouldn't stake in the ground and they now have claim yeah Let's see. Let's go to Jim in Chelsea. Good Morning Jim for taking my call. I'll make it quick. I know time is short I've revised my will. I'm leaving everything. I owned completely thoroughly to the wounded warrior program and it was suggested to me that I did not need to file a twenty dollar probate. Can you tell me if that's true and I'll hang up and listen. Thank you then. Sure I presume by a twenty dollar probate you mean filing the will with the probate court And you know that that's a service that all the probate courts Offer which is you. Can you can file your will with the probate court. So they have a copy of the original you know. I didn't think at first when I first started practicing. That was necessary. You know I thought well either. My client awry will keep a copy but as time has gone on. I think it's it's actually not a bad service because the will is going to have to go to the probate court anyway and if you can file an original with the probate court it just makes it easier on everyone That's going to have to deal with this and thinking about a will and keeping it simple is impart it. It really doesn't matter to you because every every will that a person makes the person writing it is never going to have to deal with it. They they write it and they put out into space. And then when it's activated. They're no longer on the scene So part of the thoughtfulness I think goes into a will is trying to make it easy for the beneficiaries and for the executor To make sure that they don't have to scramble to find a copy of the will. It's a small thing you know is it. Is it absolutely necessary? No but it's it's something that I think if you do it just makes that step easier but again it's it's also important then if you do that to let everyone know hey the wills on file with the probate court so that people aren't guessing or scrambling or trying to find an original when it sitting safe and snug in the probate court vault. I just want to point out today and I told you a few minutes ago somebody might WanNa try to save fifty bucks. It's a twenty dollar apparently Probate filing fee. So you know Vermont Are Frugal. Shall we say? Let's let's put it that way. Hey this has been a fascinating conversation We could go on but I We are at the top of the hour. I WanNa thank you very much Dan. Richardson for joining me. This morning. Talk a little bit about wills and I thank you so much. My pleasure already. WE'RE GONNA go They mentioned to Top of the hour Got Some news coming up from CBS. I'M GONNA quit for the day and be back tomorrow morning with another addition of our program. Stay to offer. Bill Sayer. Common Sense Radio Stay healthy everybody out there and Just Do WHAT THEY ADVISE. And we'll all get through this hanging there. I thought y'all.