#158: This Miracle Molecule will Supercharge Your Health with Nobel Prize Winner Dr. Louis Ignarro
And what nitric oxide does is phenomenal. It's Vasil dilated her which means it widens the arteries and when it does that it lowers the blood pressure, it improves blood flow to different Oregon's because you're dilating the arteries and. In addition, this nitric oxide can keep the inner lining of the arteries. Healthy. Hi, everyone drove here host of the broken bring podcast. Today we are talking with Nobel Prize. Winner Nobel Prize. Winner twenty two years ago in October. He won his Nobel Prize for his discoveries centering around nitric oxide. That's what today's podcast is all about. Now here's how powerful nitric oxide is. If you've never heard about it, you definitely want to pay attention this in nineteen, ninety, two the. Journal science declared that nitric oxide was the molecule of the year because it's such an important signaling molecule comes to our cardiovascular health the health of our heart we WANNA keep our heart healthy our brain health nitric oxide is so important when it comes to our brain health for our immune system for our nervous system. Nitric oxide is the Miracle Molecule, and if you've never heard about it before, you want to listen to this podcast because we're gonNA share doctored Naro. He's going to share what things are hurting your nitric oxide production. It's produced naturally inside of your body and he's GonNa talk about what things can actually help you what foods, what habits, what lifestyle components you can bring into your life today to increase your natural nitric oxide production, and we're only beginning to understand the true impact of nitric oxide. In fact, right now and Dr Narrow talks about. It on the podcast nitric oxide is being used as an intervention. It's in a few clinical trials right now that we're waiting for the results on to treat cove in nineteen and it could be a game changer. So without further do a quick word from our sponsor thrive market who I love, and then jump into today's episode Dr Liu Ignarro Nobel Prize Winner Hey, everyone is true I wanna. Take a minute to talk about my personal diet and why I trust and use thrive market. So over the years of tried a lot of different diets and my journey of exploration, I've been a raw food est I was a Vegan for a few years and tried variations of a high fat diet and I've realized the key and we talk about this on the podcast is personalization what works For one person doesn't work for the next. So for example, after years of trying a high fat diet and I still do a variation of this. But I discovered that I don't have the genes that allow someone to digest high amounts of saturated fat. I don't digest saturated fat as well as maybe the next person. So all the coconut oil that I was having just wasn't working for me. This is back to the central message precision and personalization are essential to creating optimal health. So I started to look for an oil that could actually work for my uses everyday for medium to high temperature cooking and I made the switch from coconut oil to. Oil, which is mostly mono unsaturated fat and I feel better. Now I'm not saying coconut oil is bad for everyone it works for plenty of people. But in my case, it wasn't the best option. That's one of the reasons I love thrive market. It's an online store full of my favorite natural foods home and body care products, and they have everything you could want. For, any type of diet including the Diet that I follow today. So as I noticed, I need to eliminate one thing or want to try a new ingredient. It's all there on thrive market it's a one stop shop. 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Change, your diet and order nursing ingredients at wholesale sale prices. That's a key wholesale. Just go over to thrive market dot com slash broken brain that's thrive market dot com slash broken brain sign up and start filling up your car. You'll see the credit automatically deducted at checkout. Now let's jump back into today's episode. Welcome to the broken brain podcast where we dive deep. Into the topics of Neuro Plasticity, EPA genetics, mindfulness, and functional medicine I'm your host droid and each week my team and I bring on a new guest who we think can help you improve your brain health feel better and most importantly live more. This week's guest is Dr Liu Ignarro. Dr Narrow is a medical research scientist who was awarded the Nobel Prize in medicine for. His breakthrough discovery of Nitric Oxide, N., O. N., how it positively impacts health and longevity especially hard health his groundbreaking research on nitric oxide pave the way for among many other innovations Viagra. A Very well-known medication to a lot of individuals were recently by the way nitric oxide is currently being investigated over the world in hospitals and universities as a possible treatment and intervention for. COVID, nineteen Dr Narrow is a distinguished professor emeritus of molecular and medical pharmacology at the University of California Los. Angeles and he has his PhD in Pharmacology with over thirty years of experience in teaching doctor Dr Welcome to the brokering podcast. It's an honor to have you here with the honor is all mine drew. It's great to be here and I really look forward to. Talking about good health effects. Absolutely, in preparation for the interview, I was listening to pretty much all your content that I could get my hands on online and I've seen you mentioned in numerous. Speeches and talks about. Teaching is so central to who you are nothing fires you up more than explaining concept and then seeing a student that light bulb moment where they get it and I just want to say where did that come from before we jump into everything we're doing a passion for teaching come from while I can tell you clearly my passion for teaching, which is every bit as as large as my passion for a discovery or original research. My my passion for teaching came early when I was in elementary school and high school and you know why? Because I had lousy teachers and I would always sit there and wonder why can't these people explain something better than what I could. Read in the Damn Book. You know they're there to teach your up in front of the room teach and impart your information to this edens so that we can understand it and I swore that if ever the day came when I would be a university professor, I would not do it their way. I would do it my way and try to become the best teacher I could, and I've always had this passion for communicating with students I love that that's incredible and we'll come back to that. In your origin story. I want to take a moment to congratulate you because we're coming up on the twenty second anniversary of your Nobel Prize I believe you got the prize. In October. Twenty two years ago. Does that sound right? You very good at this very, very good. Yes. I the announcement of my Nobel Prize was an October twelve. Of One, thousand nine, hundred, Ninety, eight, and you know this coming Monday October fifth the Twenty Twenty Nobel Prizes will be announced. So get ready. You one thing I don't know who's going to get it. But I'M NOT GONNA get it a second time. That one is enough. One is fantastic. Especially one as powerful as the one that you've gotten, we should awe only hope and dream that we can have direction i WanNa talk about your basis of the work for receiving the Nobel Prize for discoveries concerning nitric oxide as a signaling molecule in the cardiovascular system. Let's start off with the basics what is nitric oxide and how's it so fundamentally related to our health and function. That's a great question would require a about a week to answer but I will try to do it in a couple of minutes. Nitric oxide firstly, I want to remind everyone is not a gas I I mean is not a liquid or solid, but rather it's a gas. It's a gaseous substance that only lasts for a few seconds. It's very unstable. This is what made it so difficult to find in the in the human body, and that's why the discovery came. So late in the nineteen eighties and so essentially. What I discovered was that our bodies produce this molecule of nitric oxide which should not be confused with nitrous oxide. That's laughing gas, and that's what's used in a dentist office, for example, to relieve pain. Nitric oxide although it sounds the same is a totally different molecule and. What we discovered was that our arteries, our endothelial cells that line the arteries actually make this nitric oxide and what nitric oxide does is phenomenal. It's Vasil later. It widens the arteries and when it does that it lowers the blood pressure, it improves blood flow to different Oregon's was your dilating the arteries and. In addition, this nitric oxide can keep the inner lining of the arteries healthy so that blood does not clot a when it's not supposed to in the arteries also prevents cholesterol plaques from depositing in the arteries. So as long as you keep making nitric oxide in those endothelial cells, it will keep your vascular system very healthy. So one of the reasons we make nitric oxide is to protect our cardiovascular systems against high blood pressure. Stroke and heart attack. Assembly that's fantastic. I'd love to build on that a little bit and dig in and you know the history of nitric oxide is very interesting. We often thought it really had no value inside the body because it was associated as being a pollutant or something very hazardous to. Human beings we didn't essay. Think it was something that was going to be helpful towards absolutely because nitric oxide is a pollutant in the earth's atmosphere the way it forms that one a bolt of lightning zaps through the air. It causes a chemical reaction between nitrogen and oxygen. It's n and Oh to form. No, that's nitric oxide and it remains a gas in the atmosphere. Now, nitric oxide itself we've learned is not the dangerous. Aspect is not the dangerous gas in the atmosphere. What is dangerous? Is that nitric oxide being very unstable? With. In the air to form nitrogen dioxide or in to another name for that is acid rain. That's. What's toxic of course will kill you and if you fly on a plane and you go over any Industrial City like Los Angeles New York or specially Beijing and China. You see a brown gas hove ring over the city that's all N. O. Two but guess what it came from an O. N. O. is the starting material and the environment is loaded with Eno. And because of that reaction nobody in his right mind was thinking that our bodies could make nitric oxide for any useful reason It's only because I stepped outside the box and reason that we perhaps we do make it I looked for it. I was lucky we founded and the rest is history. The rest is history and one of the important questions that you're asking yourself. Early on that you say is you're asking and hypothesizing is the power of good questions they lied to. You know it's more important to sometimes you say, you have the have better questions than necessarily having the answer because the questions take you on the right direction. And one of the questions you were asking early on was, why is it that some people have improved cardiovascular health and some people don't I heard you share that in past interviews and that was. The reason of investigating down this pathway of an. That's correct. I was wondering actually back in high school. I would always, I would see that. So many of my friends and neighbors would have cardiovascular disease and not live very long whereas an equal number would be perfectly healthy and live normal Loma lives. So the obvious question to me on as a kid, I ask lots of questions. I, drove my friends crazy I drove my parents crazy everybody crazy and especially. The teachers, you know these they asked me to sit down and just come after class to ask them questions. But you know why did some people yet these diseases and some not. So after taking a lot of courses in getting into college, I came up with my own idea which was not based on any scientific evidence whatsoever. I just thought maybe just maybe. Our bodies produce a molecule that protects us against cardiovascular disease. Some of US make a lot of this molecule some of us don't and those who do not make sufficient quantities of this molecule might develop cardiovascular disease I. kept this in my mind drew threw out my college medical and graduate education until I was working as a professor and eventually I found that molecule which is nitric oxide. So the moral of that story is never never give up. Let's pay off your statement there, and we talk about some people making more levels of nitric oxide and some people not how does the body create Ano-? How was it created and how does how we breathe relate to that? Very, very important questions when we discovered that the body produces nitric oxide, we did not understand the mechanism we knew the body produced it, but we didn't know how and then we but mainly other investigators found that nitric oxide is made by an enzymatic reaction in the body very simple. You know we eat protein proteins are digested two amino acids. And each of the twenty amino acids has a different function in the body but we make one we we have one amino acid called Arginine, which is extremely important because arginine is what this enzyme uses to make nitric oxide. The enzyme is very appropriately called no cintas. Okay. So so the no synthetics binds Arjun name. which has a lot of nitrogen on it and it takes one of them off and it makes it into nitric oxide. So so our body uses enzymes one enzyme to make nitric oxide, and once that was discovered then then it was. Really, easy to ski down the slopes to figure out how we could make more nitric oxide to keep us healthy. What are the problems associated with inadequate nitric oxide? How can we make more nitric oxide? What does a healthy diet have to do with nitric oxide and so on. So you know how sciences one discovery leads to another to another. Until finally, you can figure out the entire puzzle. That's fascinating. You mentioned something right there which is what is the problem with not having adequate levels of nitric oxide being produced in the body? What are some of the ramifications that can happen? Okay. There's a whole bunch of them when we initially made the discovery that our bodies produce. No. We didn't know what the ramifications were and then shortly thereafter we showed that if you don't have enough ano-. You'll get hypertension, they'll get high blood pressure because the arteries make nitric oxide to keep the blood pressure down in the normal range as soon as you start blocking production of Ano-. Hypertension. Same thing if you block the production of nitric oxide, you can get a stroke because you get blood clotting of. unnaturally in the brain. If the blood clots unnaturally in the coronary arteries of the heart. You. Get a heart attack so so no. It is required to maintain those functions also if you have inadequate no. We know now based on another discovery we made in the early nineties that males will develop a impotence or erectile dysfunction but let's not leave the ladies out ladies who make inadequate amount of no will also suffer from erectile dysfunction in the form of. they lose their their sensual or sexual arousal they lose sexual arousal the Libyan, the nitric oxide levels come down. And any other other aspect of course, something that you're an expert in it's called the brain. The brain depends. So heavily on nitric oxide for numerous functions, the most important functions we know about Eno and the brain is that the nitric oxide promotes learning. Memory recall recalling information in the memory and also just you remembering fax and so on. The other point that I always make to graduate students and young investigators that the brain has more nitric oxide in it then does the rest of the body. And we don't really know why all we know is that Eno in the brain promotes. Memory Recall. Learning and so on. But there's gotta be more functions. You know I think Enos important in the brain to to dilate all the blood vessels to keep the blood circulating in the brain to keep the delivery of oxygen and nutrients going to the brain, and when you dilate arteries also promote the removal or a washout of metabolites that can injure the brain just like they would in your muscles when you're working and so I personally believe that that the nitric oxide is one of the most important signaling molecules. In the brain you know and you know what I can tell you drew as as a Nobel laureate I can get by saying anything I want so. Well, it's not too much before your actual Nobel prize that that nitric oxide was named the molecule of the year. Top Science magazine so I don't think that. Your statement is off by any means at all. I WANNA return back to breathing because even start with the basics you know most of us were never really taught how to breathe and we come to take it for granted. We just go about her day we're breathing we don't really check in on it every. So often maybe we might notice that we're holding our breath or we think. About it in terms of athletic performance but take us from the point of US actually intaking oxygen and how that is connected to the process of breathing and ultimately creating the majority. Nitric oxide is kind of created a few different places, but it seems to be from all the discoveries that you've been part of and other individuals that there's something special about breathing through the nose. So correct. Sure of course that discovery was made. Oh, about fifteen years ago from. A couple of great friends of Mine Party Friends of mine, a in Stockholm Sweden at the Caroline's hospital what they discovered, they were looking at asthmatics and they were trying to measure. How much nitric oxide. is in the exhaled breath of as Matic's and those studies. While they worked out. Okay. But what they discovered, what I'm trying to say is what they discovered in those studies doing various manipulations that when. One breeze through the nose into the lungs. That air has a very high concentration of no gas. When you breathe in through the mouth, there's no ano- gas, and so the idea was the question came up. Of course, logically, why you know why is that air that comes through the nose full of nitric oxide and they found that the nasal mucosal cells in the nose, the noses complicated inside and those nasal cells make lots of nitric oxide gas. Okay and when you breathe in three or knows. That nitric oxide gas goes into the lungs. And they figured out. Three things. One that when you breathe in Ano- The nitrogen oxide is what we call a smooth muscle relaxing agent in other words when the nitric oxide hits the a tracheal smooth muscle and the broncos smooth myself. It relaxes it. So the Trachea and the broncos widen so that more air can get in the lungs. The other thing Oh does when you breathe into the nose is it reaches the pulmonary circulation. So all small pulmonary arteries, capillaries and so on. They all dilate in order to increase blood flow to the lungs and you know I mean, Mother Nature is very smart. Of course, you want to do that. You want to get more blood in the lungs so. That there's more blood to pick up oxygen you. WanNa dilate the the the broncos to get more air and therefore more oxygen in the lungs, and you can get a much better oxygen extraction from the lungs into the blood by breathing in through your nose, and then of course, the blood will carry the the I mean the circulation carries the oxygenated blood through the rest of the body but the third thing that was found actually a few years later. was at nitric oxide is anti microbial as well. Nitric oxide is a reactive free radical, so it can kill certain. microbes it can react covertly with certain components of bacteria. Parasites and yes viruses and yes. Corona virus and when nitric oxide does that kills those poor those microbes let me call the microbes and prevents them from multiplying. Okay and that's how breathing in through your nose you know protects us against every day you know influenzas and all kinds of infections that can occur because there's so much garbage in the air, and so I believe as you do I think it's essential when you're inhaling to inhale through the nose, there are many other reasons to to inhale through the nose inhaling through the mouth. You. Don't bring in nitric oxide all these all these deleterious substances present in the air go directly into your throat go into your teeth into your buckle cavity oral cavalry can promote. Gum Disease can promote cavities and on and on so. One can write a whole book and I think a book has been written. Why should in hailed through your nose and not your mouth? Yeah. There's a New York Times Bestseller Al I. Don't know if that's the one you're talking about, but it's called breath. That's right. Breath I've read that book I haven't read it but a lot of people are talking about it and fundamentally it continues on this argument talks about this and I think your work is also probably mentioned inside of their to. A little bit is is really why fundamentally breathing through your nose is so important and listening to this podcast. No, we've had guests in the past come on from dentist. We've had dentist talked about that. If you breathe through your mouth, all the cascading effects that ended up happening especially at night where you don't end up getting the deep level of oxygen saturation, which can keep your body. In a more high anxiety, almost sleep apnea state. Even if you're not an individual WHO's overweight, we've also had and this goes right back into your work. We've had a doctor's come on the podcast who specialize in individuals who want improve sexual performance from the inside out. Right and they're educating people which goes right back into your work that actually erectile dysfunction. If you have it as a male, it's one of the first indicators that you may be suffering when it comes to your cardiovascular system in your heart health correct. That's absolutely right because one of the the one of the first signs of making inadequate amounts of nitric oxide would be. Erectile dysfunction that would come first well before you would see a more dangerous. Consequences such as a stroke or heart attack another another Another thing one would see as the nitric oxide decreases as you get older is the development of type two diabetes that can be diagnosed fairly early on before you get serious cardiovascular disease, and of course, let's keep in mind that. Men with type two diabetes almost ninety, five percent of them get erectile dysfunction, and that's because of the decrease and the inadequate amounts of nitric oxide. Fascinating. Talk a little bit about you know a little a little bit more. Your work has directly influenced. The creation of Viagra everybody knows the little blue pill that's out there and Viagra actually. You know coming from the world of you know I'm not a physician I'm not. I'm just somebody who deeply curious. So I'm not a physician not working directly with patients. I'm not a researcher I just like to translate the knowledge towards people. So let's say early in my career I didn't have erectile dysfunction, but I would often have a negative viewpoint of medication in terms of. Okay, let's minimize the use of it. Let's start natural interventions I because they tend to be de prioritize but later on in my research but but in addition to that, later on my research I came to find that fi grows pretty like symptom free. Drug, that's out because of the pathways and the way that it works. Exactly. Yeah. Viagra, the generic name for that. SILDENAFIL and then the Pfizer pharmaceutical company named. Viagra. which was a neat name but yes, you know before. The Way Viagra came about is in my laboratory in the early nineties we were I was told by a urologist at UCLA. That in neuro transmitter, every nerve releases and neurotransmitter that produces an effect on the end Oregon and so the neurotransmitter that caused penile erection was not known not known, and if that's not known, you cannot you. You can't know what causes erectile dysfunction. There's nothing to study, and therefore they were no no drugs available that you could take orally to. Treat erectile dysfunction there were surgical techniques where rigid prostheses. Inserted into the penis. To keep in rigid and I'm not GonNa talk about that anymore. Painful and. So everyone was looking for a drug and none of the herbs and other things that came out really worked I mean it just didn't work so. Once we discovered the neurotransmitter was nitric oxide. Then we did a little bit more work as did urologists and they found that men with erectile dysfunction were making very small amounts of nitric oxide. So Pfizer pharmaceuticals picked up on this there are brilliant. And within six years, they developed Biogra- and guess how biogra- works by Agra works by boosting the production of nitric oxide in the Corpus Kevin Awesome in the erectile tissue of the penis. So if you don't have nitric oxide, Viagra cannot work if you have a small amount of nitric oxide, biogra- can boost the action of the nitric oxide and how make this very short to the point if you have a normal amount of nitric oxide and you take Viagra good luck. And it brings up the larger point, which is you know. Obviously knock on wood everything. Thank you for all the medication that's available out there and along with it going back to our first point, which is if you do have erectile dysfunction, that's a wakeup sign, which is, let's look at your lifestyle. Let's look at your movement. Let's look at your diet because you know we're not designed to have that especially at an early age great for medication but it's a warning sign. It's the canary in the coal mine to say pay attention. I'm so glad you said that I have been talking blue in the face at scientific meetings at medical meetings at urology meetings when a mass speak although I'm not a urologist and that's the point I make you wouldn't you and your said it. So so beautifully, you should write a book on that really that you've expressed yourself very clearly erectile dysfunction is the first sign of a nitric oxide problem, and therefore that nitric oxide problem is going to develop an places and usually as I said before. Almost everyone was type two diabetes. which comes from bad diet sedentary lifestyle on and on. That is due to a lack of nitric oxide. That's why the two go together. Now, what comes first erectile dysfunction or type two diabetes? We're still trying to answer that question but I'll bet my Nobel medallion that the answers that type two diabetes is GonNa come first and then erectile dysfunction is GonNa come next and so the bottom line which maybe we'll get into is that Eating a healthy balanced diet engaging in physical activity and stop leading sedentary lifestyle you probably because of that will not. Develop either type two diabetes or erectile dysfunction yeah. The movement pieces. So key this these. DOTS that you're connecting here in your last statement, they piggyback off of we had one of the world's top experts in insulin resistance on the podcast last week Dr Ben Dickman, who's done some really great work on this topic and wrote a book called why we get sick and you know he's talking about basically when we continually Spike are glucose and then ultimately end up raising our insulin long-term and we have these lifestyle like high super high sugary diets. Right I know you're all about balanced diet, but we want to get the sugar out of our diets that are there especially from process colas and other things like that which make up the vast majority of calories we end up in a place where we pre-diabetic maybe then on our pathway to end up type two diabetes and those cascade of effects and up having a whole host of issues on the body including lowering nitric oxide production. That's correct. That's correct. High sugar well, absolutely destroy produces oxidizing effects which destroy. Much of the vascular endothelial cells and those are the most important sells for making nitric oxide high sugars will do that. Also, high-salt excess salt not a little bit of salt but excess salt you know how people just had salt everything they eat without even tasting it that excess salt and the excess sugar that you get from foods, processed foods, and of course, sugary drinks all that leads to a decrease in nitric oxide production by the blood vessels. That's that's absolutely correct such an important point in. For you know, let's just on this podcast they know that we've talked about sort of ultra process through diet, which is responsible for more chronic illness than anything else that's out there. You know there was a study that came out last year eleven, million deaths a year that's linked to ultra process diets the vast majority of salt that especially people eating the western Diet here in. And a lot of other parts of the world since we've exported this western diet, the vast majority of salt that they're consuming comes in the form of breads and rolls and highly processed foods not necessarily always the salt that they're adding little bit see-sawed on their plate it's coming from this ultra process diets. Yes. If interesting, my wife started to learn how to make bread. Few months. Ago, we've started to learn to do a lot of things the pandemic started in. March and she she's a physician anesthesiologist and we get along because she has a passion and motivation for anything and everything. So she decided she was GONNA learn to make bread without a bread machine and let me tell you she makes the breast bread in the world. But the point is that she noticed all her reading all heard the reading the packages reading this and that. The quantity of salt that many of the bread makers put in the bread is phenomenal I. Mean it's it's it's dangerous dangerous amounts of salt in simple things like breads and you don't have to. You don't have to add all that salt. You have to make the bread a different way you know so that you don't need all that salt but you know I'm saying I'm emphasizing your point that where we don't expect it. We see so much salt in. So people if they if they don't solve, their foods are getting the salt in other foods at fairly dangerous level. So we have to be cautious about that. It's so true. I want to connect one more dot that you talked about, which is you're talking about type two diabetes. We know that diabetes and other Co Morbidity is like obesity art things that are associated with a higher likelihood of death from covid nineteen, right. So let's come back to the point we made in the introduction when I was bringing you on the podcast, why is it that nitric oxide is being investigated as intervention or important part of treating or avoiding corona virus? Yes. Well, let me explain. It was really the very logical thing to do according to One of my colleagues I've known for thirty. Years Dr Warns April at the Massachusetts General Hospital. for twenty years, he's used inhaled nitric oxide. To administer to newborns, many thousands, ear many newborns are born with. A problem in the lungs that is that when they are born. The, circulating blood the blood is not diverted to the lungs to pick up oxygen. The blood still is trying to get oxygen from the mother from the Placenta but of course, the Placenta is cut right is is removed when the baby is born. So those babies turn blue because they get oxygen and many of them. Most of them died I mean it was just a terrible terrible thing. But what my friend discovered is that if he gave small amounts of nitric oxide by inhalation into the lungs right before your eyes and I've seen it and it brought tears to my eyes, these blue babies turn pink. And they are cured from this terrible. Pulmonary hypertension. The cured and in a couple of Days Z. O. Mom and dad could could take the babies helmet condition is scared it just. It's one of the reasons why I call nitric oxide, the miracle molecule and I really really believe it so. To make a long story short. Okay. So we have inhaled nitric oxide. We've had it for years. We have covert nineteen comes along and experiment was tried and I think to go four or something where we had a related corona virus infection that didn't spread too much as some patients were given inhaled nitric oxide and it seemed to work those patients felt better. And they went home. So now when this epidemic hit, a five large clinical trials were started with nitric oxide and the results are almost in some of the data has leaked out already in. It's clear that nitric oxide is very effective in treating an patients with severe covid nineteen and the three main reasons. I'll make real quick I mentioned those reasons before i. Let me say that what kills patients with Covid nineteen is massive inflammation of the lungs massive blood clotting that's called thrombosis that kills the patients in examining the lungs from these patients. It was shown that the endothelium in the blood vessels was destroyed. What does that mean? It means they're not making nitric oxide. What happens if you don't make nitric oxide, you get azo constriction no blood flow to the lungs you'll get broncho constriction no air into the lungs and you lose the ability of the no to kill the virus remember no kills viruses. So for all those three reasons and because no goes down patients die. Now by taking the inhaled nitric oxide, you restore everything that thrombosis fairly rapidly disappears these patients breathe again they come out of the ICU in a couple of weeks they go home now a few patients. That's been reported for a few patients. There are hundreds of other patients still on the clinical trials and the FDA forbid the release of the data until the trials are complete. But I promise you. It's going to work. Yeah. It's. So these are already patients that if they have if they are dealing with obesity. Insulin resistance obesity type, two diabetes they're already not producing enough. Oxide, so they're already vulnerable in their day to day life. Dan We already know that not everybody who gets exposed to the virus. We had Jeffrey Bland the godfather of the Functional Medicine Movement researcher PhD was in a lot of work under Nobel. Prize winner Linus Pauling years ago, and he says, you know not we know not everybody that encounters the virus necessarily gets it. So we know that our immune system plays a role. We know that the nitric oxide that we that we create our nose ends up destroying pathogens for some people. And obviously for other people who are exposed to a lot and don't produce the levels of. That would be being produced a healthy person. They can become a lot more vulnerable it just another reminder that whether it's corona virus is some sort of other future pathogen. This is a reason why we want to be paying attention to this miracle molecule. Es. Thank you for pointing that out. That was the first part of your question which I failed to answer. You know sometimes I get carried away with my answers but that point is is well taken that those individuals who have an underlying problem mainly a decrease of nitric oxide production from type two diabetes or from poor diet sedentary lifestyle. Those individuals are going to be at higher risk for developing the more serious consequences of Corona virus infection you're absolutely correct. You. Know I want to zoom out a little bit and talk about. Some of the other things that also inhibit nitric oxide production that a lot of people won't necessarily think about one of the things is about some of the mouthwashes that are out there on the market and tell us about that. This might be neutral. God you know as much as I do about nitric oxide drew that's fantastic A. Well. Our. When we eat, we eat lots of root vegetables, leafy vegetables that contain nitrite and nitrate and all three minus no two minus and these nitrates that we take in actually a pretty healthy because they help to boost the production of nitric oxide in the body, they're actually converted to nitric oxide. Three to you can kind of think, even if you're not a chemist at certain enzymes might be able to convert that Eno and that's exactly what happens. Now in the mouth, we have a very important enzyme that converts trade. Tonight Trite. So three to no two. That's the enzyme is in the mouth. and then you swallow no two into your stomach. Aches absorbed into the blood and that forms in Oh. In it's carried throughout the body. It's great I mean there are many ways to form Ano and that's one way to form An. Oh so read lots of Spinach Kale. Ruge beats urine good shape but the thing is is that if you're going to do all that, don't use a mouthwash because the mouthwashes have ingredients in them that kill. And really kill the enzymes that make the nitrite and the no those. The those molecules, those substances in the mouthwash of course, do kill the bacteria that cause bad breath. Yes and believe me some people do need that. There's no question about it but. The same mouthwashes will block no production. So I've written letters and I really never heard back but the the. I don't even know what industry to call it the mouthwash industry. needs to come up with different kinds of chemicals that will affect selectively the enzymes that cause bad breath and leave the nice ones alone that make nitric oxide and then we'll be in much better shape. Yeah and it's so important to look at because if you take a step deeper. So many of the ADS that I grew up watching during like you know mid eighties and nineties everybody remembers those ads for I'm not gonNA name the brand or company, but kills ninety nine point nine percent of bacteria in the mouth. Well, we know that not back bacteria are not this big enemy they're part of us. In fact, they more likely employ us than we employ. Them, they're essential in all aspects of our health and they're plentiful in our oral microbiome in our nasal microbiome and gut microbiome as listeners know here. So just a small piece of advice and you know not having mouthwash and there's plenty of other solutions willing to some other past episodes where going deeper and digging tear gut health could actually improve your breath because again we'll have. biomarkers. Essential App they might be having microbiomes. In. The GI tract you can eliminate bad breath I read lots of articles about that. It's so true and it's so connected. doctrinaire I want to zoom out again and talk about just your general curiosity because. Only were you awarded this, Nobel? Prize, which is such a high honor. As I continue to read about your work after that, you also continue to keep on connecting the dots especially for practical things that we can all do at home through the awareness. Diet modifications as you've mentioned them emphasis on exercise which will come back to so I wanNA. Ask You. Tell us about this curiosity and you mentioned that you had bad teachers growing up right and so you wanted to explore and half things better explained. But how did your parenting or your upbringing? Support the curiosity that you naturally had. Okay. Well, it was really very mixed. Let me explain Kind of an it's an enigma. You see my parents were both born in Italy. My Dad was born in Naples and my mom was born in Sicily. And despite that difference, they actually fell in love and got married. We always joke about that and my brother and I were the guinea pigs to the greatest food. You could ever eat because neither one ever agreed on what to add. It had to be Neapolitan or Sicilian. So wound up being both and how can tell you is delicious and it was Mediterranean and very, very healthy. So. The problem. Was this. Maybe it wasn't a problem. My parents did not speak English when I was born I was born in Brooklyn. New York. They came over you know a few years before they met in New York dot married. I came along in nineteen forty one. So when I started elementary school, the teachers told my parents that my English was terrible. But my Italian was great and that I was GONNA have difficulty learning in that class unless I really shaped up. So. My Mom's stopped speaking Italian. My Dad was a carpenter. He he couldn't even read not even an Italian he he was uneducated. My parents never went to school not even the first grade never went to school. And despite that handicap, I was able to climb to the top of my profession. and. Get awarded Nobel Price. So that is remarkable i. Agree. But it's because they couldn't help me that I knew I had to help myself and I was afraid and embarrassed when I didn't know the answer to something in school. So I would read and read and try to get the answers you know before I went to school so that I would not look like such a fool you know in class and spell something wrong give the wrong answer I i. that's the way I was I I wanted to be correct I never wanted to be better than anyone else. Of course, not I just wanted to be like everyone else and so I, I worked and I struggled and I work. And I was able to develop a passion and motivation to study and stay with. The kids in class and that's really How it started. The in hearing about the story of your parents and parents and other talks that you've given in podcast I. Think one central thing is that you? Yes your parents may not have been able to support you in the way that we see a lot of today like helicopter parents really getting involved in the academics and. You know hovering over, which is very, not very healthy but they they didn't get in in the they didn't get in the way as much for the curiosity that was there in fact I remember an anecdote that you shared, which is You wanted a chemistry set to start creating these fireworks right and. Your parents initially said no, but I think later on, you convince them that this was important part of my learning and this is going to help me which obviously exactly. My Mom she knew me my mom, she asked me why did I wanNA chemistry set? I said, well, I I wanna read the booklet and I want to do experiments using the chemicals in chemistry set, and she would look at me and say but Luigi that's my name and Italian Lou is Luigi. You're only ten years old. What are you going to read? What are you going to do? So she says, what else do you want a chemistry? Is that for? Of course, I, didn't tell her. My father was different my father. I overheard my mom and dad speak and they speak with a loud voice even though they're not yelling at each other remember they are Italian. So my dad would tell my mom. Look. Can't you see that he wants to do something that we've never done before and we don't understand. Let him do it. Let him do it and my mom finally agreed and whatever I do. I made one of the strongest firecrackers possible and I blew up the fireplace in the backyard and my mom spent the next two months telling my dad I told you i. told You my. You know kids are going to get into their mission of, but if you let them explore sometimes that mischief ends up turning into a Nobel prize. On on on the topic. I would be remiss if I didn't get a chance to at least check in on it takes back twenty two years ago almost to the date now and tell us about where you were and what the setting was. When you got the call or heard the news. Well, you know for ten years prior to nine, hundred, Ninety, eight, many of my research colleagues and especially the people in my lab. But always tell me you know this year, you're going to get the Nobel Prize. Don't worry. You'RE GONNA get the prize and I would always say I'm not worried I said all I WANNA do is do my work make important contributions to humankind. Please don't remind me of the Damn Nobel prize it wasn't a goal that you were pursuing. Oh. My God no drew I always tell my students, my post Docs, young professors that should never be a goal in your mind. I mean, every investigator I've seen who I've heard them say you know I gotta get a Nobel Price. So I got a beef up my research and do this and do that not only have they not gotten the Nobel prize but they have become poor scientists. You never go after a prize you do your work and you answer important questions that have not been answered before in any way you can and. If you answer them. And if you're lucky. Then you'll get a Nobel prize had never go after the prize itself and I never did any time anybody started talking about the prize I told him I told her to shut up. You Know I. Mean I knew. Of all the pressure that no Nobel prizes were announced in the first or second week of every October. So, for I must admit eight nine years before you know I, Kinda just You know maybe the phone will ring in the bedroom at three in the morning. Noon Stockholm time, but I would just dismiss it and get it out of my head. So at that particulier I actually forgotten about it. Accepted an invitation to go to France and to Italy to give a talk. So, apparently when I was on a short flight from. Niece France to Naples. Italy. Where my dad was born many many years before that and he passed away many years before the prize was was awarded. During that flight, Stockholm came out with the announcement that I got the prize. So my plane is leaning Naples and you know I'm getting ready. I was sitting in the front of the plane I get up and I go onto the stairs to walk down onto the tarmac. Naples a small airport you walk down atomic I look up and. Hundreds of people with camera flashes, going off all these bright lights and I'm thinking the first thing I thought was. Maybe the president of Italy's is on the same plane. So I turned around I didn't see anybody important. So walked down the stairs and there was my friend who invited me to give a talk he comes over to me goes Lou. Lou Have you heard the news and I said? Oh. What knows he says he re this. and. He shows it to me and it was the press release from the Karolinska. Institute that awarded the Nobel Prize to me. So I saw that I saw my name and I swear to you I lost strength in my legs. I went right down on the tarmac and they helped me inside the airport and I have been celebrating ever since for twenty two years incredible what a story but I think the moral of it should be, which can be applicable in addition to the celebration to everybody's life. Is that that goal that you think that's Out that, it's you shooting for actually one of the best ways to let it go and just do your work desire work. Dear duty as they say in the I was raised in the Hindu faith I don't identify by that has now but I still look upon those principles they say do your Dharma and don't worry about the fruits of your labor. So you do Dharma which is your purpose what's your Gruber's yet that that is absolutely so true I mean, you know many professionals they'll look for certain goal. Okay. So if you're an athlete your quarterback. To break all the records in book you WanNa, get six touchdowns in a game. That's okay. That's fine to think of that way. You know you're writing a book you're writing a book, and then as you're writing it, you wanted to a New York Times bestseller you know. So you're right it better and better, and and you wait and see those are good goals but the Nobel prizes is very different. Not many are awarded since nineteen O one, they've been about nine hundred Nobel prizes awarded total and in medicine where I got mine is about two hundred and twenty five Nobel prizes total since nineteen one, there's not many of us. You know you just have to go and do your best science and don't keep the Nobel Prize in the back of your head because you know why that brings out the best the worst in you. You may fudge few numbers to get it just right. You may do experiments to not to test your hypothesis but maybe to show that you're wrong hypotheses might be correct. You see you can do things like that and and lie and cheat now in an athlete. Who is going after the A heisman trophy you can't lie cheat if you don't play well, you don't get it. So it's okay to have that as a goal. Each shared a funny story on another talk that I heard that basically. You know if I understand the timeline correctly and please correct me if I'm wrong because I could be. Basically, the year that you were awarded, you talked about the makeup of the number of men that were part of the Nobel Committee that were choosing you as the prize and how there might be a link to something. Can you share that with our audience and of course, of course this is hilarious. And I said in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, two. We discovered that nitric oxide is what causes. Sexual arousal and penile erection six years later is nine hundred, ninety eight, right. So was in March of Nineteen, ninety eight that defies a pharmaceutical company marketed. Viagra which FDA approved well, only a few months after that. In October. Of the same year ninety eight, the Nobel prize for nitric oxide is announced. So I'm thinking you know there was my wife and I'm thinking. What was this a coincidence or what? So I decided to look up the committee members of the Nobel Committee for medicine head. I found that the majority of them were men over the age of sixty. Yeah, you know that's been a joke for the last twenty two years whenever I see these people in Stockholm 'cause I go a lot. I've been to many other ceremonies I I make the you know the people the committee members and so on. So they always remember that statement and they never deny it. Let me tell you. Maria's so funny on that topic, you know people who Austin said you know. Like Viagra and they found like this like for male sexual performance they have Viagra for for women. Why isn't it? They don't have a pill and Many of our podcast guests have talked about this but women rightfully. So they're beautiful divine way they're much more complex than men. It's not a simple solution to create our arousal as simple as men are in. My hope is that somebody does find something to support all women that are out there I can add something to that if you'd like. I was privy to a lot of research that was eventually published by Pfizer but and we did some experiments in our laboratory to without getting into details. But in in adult women. these were. We were able to get samples of their erectile tissue from the clitoris. These patients who obviously passed on and we were able we got approval to study. CER- certain tissues to look at erectile to look at erectile function because in the clitoris, there's a lot of erectile tissue as as we all know. So nitric oxide is still a mediator no question about it and in experiments that were done but company saw fit not to go in that direction to develop let's say a pink pill. To treat sexual arousal problems in women, the companies didn't go through with it I urge them to go through with it. I thought it would be a very good idea they did not but it turns out it turns out drew that tens and tens of millions of women take. BIOGRA-. which absolutely increases sexual arousal. The only thing that a woman has to do is take roughly double the dose because as you said, it's A. Bit More complicated and what they need to do is double the dose but the good thing about Viagra is that it's incredibly safe. It's an incredibly safe drug. There are no side effects. So that's a good thing. Yeah. A very good thing for sure and we want options on the table, and for sure we want people to explore down the pathway of lifestyle and exercise. It's amazing. One touch on exercise for a moment here. What's the relationship for those that are not familiar when it comes to exercise and it seems to be that sweating and lifting heavy things is important process and part of nitric oxide. So why is that? How does that happen? Okay, it's very, very simple. This was discovered about twenty years ago and then capitalized on and it's it's so simple. You know what? I always tell people drew that science. Is. Ten percent fact and ninety percent common sense. Think about that for a second. Okay. So we're exercising. Makes a difference whether you're swimming weightlifting volleyball. Running bicycling whatever you know you're moving you when you exercise your cardiac output, of course, goes up your heart stimulated high faster heart rate faster force of contraction your cardiac output goes up more blood flow throughout your body. What is so unique about the arteries is that when blood flows through the arteries, it creates a force on those endothelial cells. You know just imagine water going high-pressure through a hose. Now imagined blood going through high pressure through an artery, it creates a force on the endothelial cells. Well, the mechanisms have been worked out beautifully that force stimulates this enzyme no Cintas to make lots of Ano-. Lots of no why Comes to logical. Well don't you want to increase blood flow to your working muscles. So Enos of as later widens the blood vessels more blood flows through. Why do you want more blood to flow through? Well, blood has oxygen bound to the open but has nutrients you're eating whatever nutrients you want to deliver all of that to the working muscles in addition when your muscles are working, they make metabolites lactic acid that can be very painful. So by improving blood flow, you're also washing out the blood from the other end of the muscles you're removing galactic asset so. That is why. Exercise generates nitric oxide for the physiological purpose of improving your performance and endurance. But I want everyone to keep in mind that same nitric oxide that's dilating your vessels. Is, going throughout your body keeping you healthy to your brain to your heart. This is why for five thousand years people have been saying that exercise is good for your health. Nobody knew why? Until about twenty years ago so at least one explanation for that is nitric oxide. I'm sure there's many more but listen I'm going to take advantage of nitric oxide right now. Yeah. There's other factors like creating and F, in the brain and a few things but nitric oxide seems to be one of the primary ones that are there especially for the cardiovascular, which is your work is been built on and the best part about it is it's a free tool. It's a free tool that we all have and it works better than most medications that are on the market with zero side Effects Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know I I trained pharmacologist. So what that means is the pharmacology is the study of the action of drugs on the body and also what the body does to the drugs. So I'm trained in that way to understand all these interactions. Okay. and. I can tell you from all of my training. Is that I don't like to take drugs. Okay. Because I know what they can do. Some drugs are very, very safe. Some drugs you know at low dosage, conceive your life taking. Fifty sixty milligrams of aspirin. You know that is very, very helpful. And some drugs have to be taken drew if people have life threatening high blood pressure. which can kill them within a year. They've got lower that blood pressure. I'm sorry you've gotta lower that blood pressure or you don't have to worry about that blood pressure much longer and only way to lower their blood pressure that we know of today in our state of ignorance is to take certain drugs that are known to lower the blood pressure later will have more natural ways to lower the blood pressure you know. But but right now you know in some cases I have to support drugs but ninety percent of the time there are alternative ways and you should seek those out before you take drugs. Now, that's grants this about having the opportunity on the table and not deep prioritizing what traditionally have been seen as soft interventions. There's been a lot of people great physicians you know most of my. Family is physicians coming from an Indian background or their individuals that work in healthcare, and they unfortunately just were doing their best super small into the best schools but they weren't taught about diet. They weren't taught about why it's important to breathe through the nose, but this is all aspects of life, and then now we're so lucky we have the Internet people can listen to podcasts they. Can read books they can have sophisticated conversations and everybody including the doctors that are out there can get educated on actually what works and makes a difference for people. Yeah. That is that is so true. You know people like you do a great job to get that message out there get people to think about or get people to interact and You know that's the way to do. It and now that we are in this pandemic, actually it's a lot easier to do the last time. I was at an airport was in February and no normally, I make two or three international trips a month. Can you imagine that and now it's all through zoom podcasts conventions and so on and You know I'm gaining a couple of pounds but I'm trying to watch what I mentioned. The pandemic and the current state of the world that we've in. Pretty, much anywhere. You Look People are talking about twenty twenty being a heck of a year right a lot. In this year and you know it's easy to turn on the news and see the negativity that's out there about the current state. When you look at the year and believe me there's obviously being you feel the same way to is been some very very just a heart wrenching traumatic things the debts that have come from Cova, the state of the economy. That's their kids that can't go back to school and are suffering with their own learning process and anxieties that come as so much. But challenging and tough things that have happened this year along with that because we all know about that what have you seen to be some of the silver linings that you think will come from this difficult but potentially eye-opening year? Well there are few they're also met with the BAX. You know depending upon. Who says what especially in politics and so on I won't get into that. But what what I see as a positive is that? You know maybe people will start depending or relying more on science you know sciences so important to to pay attention to especially scientific facts. You know I always tell my friends that scientific facts are just that their facts and they're not subject to a matter of opinion you know opinion come you can apply an opinion to an unproven theory. Let's say but if you have scientific facts, well, it's a fact by definition, it's knowledge and it's not subject to a matter of opinion what we've we've learned from all of this I think is that by practicing certain A procedure such as wearing a mask social distancing and so on. You know we're more aware of our surroundings. This will be very protective in that will refrain we will not get the the virus as easily nor will we transmitted to other people and what I think I've heard many many people say is that since we've been wearing masks and keeping social distancing, it's interesting we haven't really. And I don't mean this in any funny way we haven't smelled anyone's breath. We haven't been close enough to people to smell their perfume or their breath and I suddenly realized as it was just a few weeks ago that since February. I haven't had any sniffles any influenza, any flu, any anything because all of those are transmitted by going through. Lungs. So this may be a good way to be safe during an influenza that has nothing to do what the GARONA virus. There's just my own thinking and I think that's GonNa come out later. But what I'm hoping for is, of course, the development of a safe and effective vaccine I know the many of the scientists doing this I'm a scientist I know what they're doing they're taking. Their time because they want to do it right and just like vaccines have worked in the past for polio for influenza for you name it, I mean. So vaccines of work we will see a great vaccine for the the corona virus. It'll take time to get everybody the vaccine. Sure. Meanwhile, we have to be careful, but we will get out of this we will get out of it. It's very hopeful message and Knock on wood that we're heading in that. Direction. You gave a statement at. Congress and when I was looking at a by wasn't sure if that was in the Canadian Congress for the US Congress, but you can clarify. And that statement was I'm paraphrasing here. But only in America, can the son of an uneducated carpenter climb to the top of his profession and go on to receive the Nobel Prize in medicine. And when you look at the current state of. Sciences and education the US. How can we create a better environment to have and support kids especially individuals that come from? The. Underprivileged background to go deeper into the sciences and make it more of a part of education. Okay. That was that was very good and I did make that statement. And I want to say why? Because it puts things in perspective I was asked along with a few other notable scientists to testify to our United States. House of Representatives to a subcommittee that decides the budget of what is called the National Institutes of Health, the NIH or National Institutes of health sponsors or funds ninety percent of the biomedical research done within the US. So we're talking about you know billions and billions and billions of dollars, and so there was a there there. Congress had not increased the budget for some time and there were many young investigators like you point we want to bring in young people if they're interested in science, let's bring them in, but they need to have money to do the research, and so the the nih asked me as well as several other people to go testify to this subcommittee to see if we could increase the budget to. To provide funds for these new young investigators and the rest of us as well. So we met for a couple of days and you know there. Were some members of the house in some senators they're listening? And they would say, well, why Professor at narrow do should be increased the budget for? The NIH for for. Health and not increase the budget for something else like the army and navy and so on. And I said you know because I did my homework I said listen I said you the budgets you have already for the other organizations are in the trillions of dollars you have so much money there I said, you don't have nearly as much money in the National Institutes of Health and I looked at them and I said, what is more important to you your children and your family's Isn't it health or what's the most important aspect for you is in at your health and well being I said, listen we in America scientists in America can do a fantastic job in bettering our science I said. I'm a prime example I said An. My parents were born in Italy. Came to the United States didn't speak English my dad was a carpenter. Okay and yet I was able to do all this research and get noble. Prize. How did I do that and I said only in America can the son of an uneducated Carpenter Wind Nobel prize? and. The implication there was because the Nih America was giving me the opportunity and the funds to do my research. That was so good that it wound up getting a Nobel price and so I remember they paused they looked at each other. They ended that particular session that was the end of the session and we left not knowing anything and a few months later. We learned that President Clinton accepted the proposal to increase the NIH budget and you know over the next four years, they doubled the damn budget. Incredible. What a legacy, a true story you can look at how many. Amazing. Fan. Why it's powerful story and it just shows that. Again. It's been a tough year and there's many people that will argue and say that there's really fundamental challenges here in the states, which is true right? It's true. Of course but as also an immigrant to this country, I was born in Nairobi Kenya my parents were also born there were four generation Kenyans originally ancestry's from India? The United States is is a very unique place that you can have situations like that because of public funding the infrastructure, the collaboration of sciences, and it's another reason to celebrate of how good it is. That doesn't mean they aren't things that we want to improve it just to celebrate the beauty that's there, and also to protect it. As you hinted to earlier, you know I know we said we won't get into politics. Love you can you feel free to get into politics want to but? Anybody that's going to degradate that system that's going to be Anti Science Institute. Thank you. Is Really, fundamentally hurting the core what America's Yes drew you know you're right I do not understand. The current administration in its inability to understand and trust science I. Mean You know I don't get it you know in the I don't think many people understand this in this country. Abraham. Lincoln back in the eighteen hundreds. He wanted to know more about science and what had had to offer. The politicians and the country and the betterment of the people. So he established a an organization and Academy it's called the National Academy of Sciences. He established that way back then and it's still with us. Today is a a lot of members and many of us. You know elite scientists get elected to the National Academy of Sciences. The purpose of the National Academy of Sciences among others. is to advise and counsel the President and Congress on scientific matters pertaining to global and local. Economies. And Health. Okay Our current president not once has ever gone to the National Academy of Sciences. To seek that information and on a few occasions, one parts of the academy went to him in Congress to talk about the urgency of climate control. He walked out and would never interact with scientists again and said that we were all crazy. But all of us Nobel laureates got together to write a letter to him and to Congress and to the National Academy of Sciences which is published in the New York Times just to denounce this kind of incredible behavior which could only destroy this country. So you know and let me tell you and I'm proud to kill everyone this. You just heard me say some not so good remarks about President Right. You want to hear something else. I am a Republican, so there. I. Appreciate you being vocal and sharing your thoughts you know I. Think Civil Discourse regardless of what people believe identify with is the foundation of also America having a chance to talk about things even if people have a different viewpoint and you know going back to science science is not perfect but nothing is perfect. It's always evolving but it's not a vast conspiracy of people trying to topple one side or pushing initiative through and the way that we. Present, and bring new ideas to the foray I was. Max Pollack Nobel Prize winner who said science advances you know sometimes unfortunately, one death at a time I believe in. You know sometimes, it happens just through time and the introduction of new ideas that things get brought in. But those new ideas that are brought in are also based on science and that's part of evolution that's there and I thank you for the. Reminder on that is that fundamentally everybody that's out there that's working in this field and industry they're good people wanting to present new and interesting ideas and help solve problems. Are there bad apples in any line of business or any line of area of course they are but the vast majority of people are good and trying to save you and your families and make the world a healthier place. Of course well said, I couldn't agree more. Dr Ignore this has been a absolute pleasure and a blast to go down memory lane with you here about your life's influences about receiving the Nobel Prize about not chasing goals and instead of focusing on our Dharma. That were meant to do and most importantly a reminder and for some people in an introduction about the power of this miracle molecule trick oxide, it's been a pleasure and you've lived upped to. What your true passion purposes, which is, you've taught us well on this podcast and I'm so grateful for you. Well thank you very much. Do I really appreciated I think that you've asked them fantastic questions and we've had a delightful discussion. I have to say one of the best ever for me and it's always nice to be able to discuss this with people than just write articles for scientific journals which can get boring after a while. So you absolutely and if you enjoy this podcast, please share with your friends that would mean the world with us and helped somebody breathe better by taking advantage of nitric oxide. Thank you again and we'll see you next week.