Episode 61: Jeremy Szal
Welcome to the world shapers conversations with science fiction and fantasy authors about the creative process. I'm your host every. And this episode's Guest Jeremy Shaw. Welcome to another episode of the World Shapers I'm your host. Edward Will it. This is the podcast. Right talked to other sides fiction and fantasy authors about their creative process as I'd like to point out I m myself and author of science fiction and fantasy. My current project is a series called world-shapers which comes out from Dr Books has come out and is coming from doublets book. One world share came out in two, thousand, eighteen and master. The World Book to came out in two, thousand nineteen and just came out and mass market paperback in August and coming up September fifteenth is the Moonlit World, which is book three We'll shapers from which this podcast takes. Its name is set in vast inter dimensional labyrinth of shaped worlds. the shapers of these worlds came from our world, the first world, but we're giving their own worlds to shape by the mysterious agreer who has operated a school in our world to teach people how to shape worlds and Edmund. They graduated. She gave them a world to shape. It sounds like a pretty cool school. So, the first book World Shaper takes place in what seems to be our world except there's a few differences and the shape of that World Shana keys doesn't remember that she shape the world which is very unusual as the mysterious stranger. Carl Yasser. Tells her when he shows up because he expects you to remember, she doesn't he explains what's going on in that. Her world is now under threat from the adversary who already stolen the knowledge of the making of the world from her during a terrible attack that killed her best friend says, her world has already lost to her. But if she comes with him to other worlds, she can gather the knowledge of the making of those worlds. The Shaping of those worlds take it to a rare and save all of the labyrinth from the depredations of the adversary. So that's The overall premise book one as I said takes place in a world very much like ours as they attempted to escape the adversary and get out of that world into another world book two takes them into a world which was inspired by Jules Verne the shape of the world really bikes Jules Verne, and that's why it's called master the world which of course is a Jules Verne title and it's a very much a Jules Verne Steam punkish world with strange submarines and weird airships and floating islands and odd weapons and all the things that to Jules Verne. Really dug. From which you can tell that I come from back in the seventies. As a teenager. The one that comes out September. Fifteenth the world is I. Like to call it where wills and Vampires and Peasants Oh my, and it is shaped by people who really like where Wills Vampires and peasants and it has all of those things in it. So I'm very excited about that coming out September fifteenth. I. Hope you will check it out now the other very exciting thing ties even more closely to this podcast earlier this year I successfully kick started an anthology featuring. Stories original fiction and reprints from authors who were guests on the world shapers the first year and That's a pretty impressive list people that agreed to take part and even those who weren't able to take part were very Supportive of the idea. So we have original fiction from flair don't forget anybody I. It's always hard to remember off the top of my head, and of course, I never have the piece of paper in front of me with the names on it, but we'll see. Coming up we have original fiction from Tanya Huff John C right, Sean, Maguire, David. Weber L. LD modest junior Christopher rocky. Oh Dj Butler Shelby Edina. Oh, and me. And on the reprint side, there's John Skulls e David Brand Judicia Derek Kukushkin Fonda Lee Gareth l Powell three dyer and a doctor Charles e Gannon. So that's a pretty impressive list. There's nominees winners of every major award in the field in there and. I it's IT'S GONNA be Great Book It is done. It is at the printer. The kickstarter version is at the printer kickstarter backers. We'll get the print version I. The e Book version is even now beginning to show up on retail sites available for preorder, it will be released September twenty second. But if you check out, I know it's on Google play already and as I record this hits in review for Amazon and Kobo and apple books in all the various other. E Book Retailers. So check that out shapers. preorder it and you will get the e book on September. Twenty. Second. The commercial print release will follow probably in mid November because I working with the distributor and. Bigger printer than I would do normally when I do print on demand this won't be put on demand it will go through distributor and go out to bookstores so that will be coming out in mid-november but you can get the book as I said to September twenty second you can pre-order it pretty much now or in a very few days has it makes its way into all of the various sites All right. Well, I think that's the well note there is one more thing I have to say that the world shapers podcast is part of the scheduling podcast network. There that covers off the introductory material. Now, let's get onto this episode guest Jeremy's all. Germany's all was born in one, thousand, nine, hundred five, and he says was raised by wild dingoes. That's that's by Oh. I didn't make that up. He's bit his childhood exploring beaches bookstores and quote the limits of People's patients I. Think I did some of that too. He's the author of more than forty science fiction short stories and his debut novel storm blood. A dark space opera came out from glance in June twenty twenty, and it's the first of a trilogy common trilogy. He was the editor of the Hugo Winning Starship Sofa until twenty twenty and has a BA in film studies and creative writing the University of New South Wales. He carves out a living in Sydney Australia with family. He loves watching weird movies collecting Boutique Jen's exploring cities cold weather. You should definitely come visit me in Canada and dark humor. Welcome to the World Jeremy. Thank you very much, ed. Wood lovely to be here. Thanks so much for being on I've haven't been able to finish your book, but I've read. Delved into it enough to know that it looks really cool. So I'm looking forward to to talking with you about it. But before we do that, we will do well first of all we should point out that we are talking across a vast expanse of the planet since I'm in Saskatchewan and you're in Sydney, is it Yesterday yet, I think fourteen hours, fourteen hours I. So. He's actually you're actually in the future from my point of view. I am in the future. It's not bad here. You know it's another day is don't we have a distorted ourselves aliens invaded not yet. Yeah. Oh, that's good to know. I. Can get up in the morning without fear then. So, let's start as I always do with my guests by taking you back into the. River on this Sunday the mists of time. And find out how you first of all where you grew up and how you got interested in science fiction and how you got interested in writing. So how did that all work for you? I. Grew up here in Sydney Australia I was always a rita and I never really thought of genre in any particular fashion. I just read the books reading when I when I was ten years old we moved to Australia for a couple of years and Basically in a to a small mountain village of my dad's from Poland and. UNCLENCH grandfather had died in a very short period of time you need to go out and source and things that anyway. So I'm living in. Toll Mountain regions of Australia, and for some reason whatever reason, the local books a local school library has a small English section and obviously they all speak. German elast the world that does not speak the language I speak wherever I go. You do have to learn the lug long tongue and I haven't spoken German yet. I was still picking through hat off for me to read. And I. S- quickly developed a lot but then you know my mother is an English teacher and she was very very determined to get me books and so whenever we would go to London we'd always stop at the bookstore and. He's Dino vow whatever they had their like I picked up whatever I saw what was interesting you know there was no as I said, there was no genre or I didn't think of fiction as science fiction or not I just wrote I just picked up whatever I wanted to go. And one of those things happen to be the automous foul series. And then I picked up the gone series by Michael Grant and then I'm picking up a few books by Stephen King and again I didn't think the my sport of what Like greeting and the governor's appeal to me all like the action alike, the jaw like the weirdness and all that. Amend I remember distinctly seeing a Coupla from banks when into award of storms now, thirteen fourteen on something about it just appealed to me in to spaceship of planet. A witness over the technology I couldn't put my finger on like I couldn't. Think, why do I like this? I just did obviously I'd seen stall. I'd seen Myron Fascia of science fiction was avid video Gamer, and so I had a little science fiction but never really thought of it a sci Fi. But then when I came back to. Australia. Out. And when I? Finished Saudi going into high school. I. Took up a few great writing courses and I found that I liked it. Then, I started reading the hall Song of Ice and five series. When I was way way too young. And then I Solo Season of game of thrones again. Well, White Way too young for I don't even think of legally Kuzina time. And something about the whole idea of fantasy just appealed to me the idea of a magical Ronald. Whether dragons and creatures on these different cultures and different landscapes and all this weird stuff going on like that. viscerally appealed to me and so when I started acknowledging the idea of science fiction through video games like halo in mass effect and it just really grabbed me and so I did finish school i. just started writing to the bookstores and going to science fiction. Bookstore of science fiction section of the of the stole. Deliberately, like I started picking up books picking up Brandon Sandstone Picking Karen Travers Greg Bad bunch of other people on you know as I say the rest is history. Would you set the creative writing classes in high school where you? Writing outside of class at the time when did you writing your own stories? Probably earlier I just basically power -ted whatever the Hell I was reading at the time you know and You know I didn't really think of myself as a ride I just thought of myself someone who you know I like typing and So I started. Getting it all down I mean like I don't even think he was. aimed. Thing Roma. Cohesive. Would have jumped in mind. but then went on more than high school and started taking those classes. I did start thinking of. The idea of writing be published in writing to be read and one of the things that did that was reading the adaptation of Hayler one of the video games. By Karen. Travers and I just it was a very. Very very little action but it was a very human story and I just found that I could utilize it very easily because I play the video games and so it just. I was able to pick it up very very easily and I have been very short attention span so that loose priceless and so I started thinking. L., I'd like to do this, and so I started doing it seriously and when I did finish high school I started doing it seriously. But you didn't actually study writing when you went to university you do did film studies right. I I did BUD degraded writing in film studies I. Don't actually think the creative writing was no annual near as much health. The film Saudi Staying Walls I. Think the film studies really did. Honing on the nature of craft and the nature of script writing and the nature of pushing a Cactus fullwood always intriguing the audience always having something on the next corn lot of the creative writing losses. Okay, how do we allude metaphysical imagery that this obscure one thousand, nine, hundred, thousand, nine, writer. was trying to get out probably while he was depressed high and on his deathbed. How can we apply that to our own? Creative process our own if lives and pretty zoned out pretty early on in most glosses but the film studies was quite was quite educational so I think it's very good to get a diverse range of inspirations. Often ask people who have taken creative writing in university how helpful they found it for the kind of writing the ended up doing. As you just answered that. And I often get that especially from people who write in science fiction fantasy. There, it's just still not the genre that. Welcome at University of creative right happens. I straight up had one teacher. Tell me that any sort of fiction science fiction fantasy anything that is just bad. And you could just hear grown go around the audience in some help what hand up and said Yeah. But why? And I don't remember the because also to annoyed to pay attention. By remember that's one grant writing close wet this one girl. Literally showed up to gloss. With. not a story. She just pasted together all these newspaper clippings of the various things that happened around the world, and then wrote her earn sub stories about the Salem witch trials and really, and so newspaper clippings on this big canvas she like collage. But but the thing is that those a massive bloodstain. All sitting that thirty of US looking at this bloodstain. And this wondering who this Ultra Goff write-off this ago who walked, she'd given us and the teachers like what is this and she's like all yells cutting together all these east Pepe Cummings with a box cutter and Max accidentally sliced my fingers and I saw that bleeding over the pages but are decided. Instead of that as just getting a new one, I'm GONNA keep it and I looked to the teacher way in Florida Tarum tear down g should she's like Oh yeah. Conceded there's a bit of an arterial spray on the would pay. As a big big splatter around the would, which is a big clump. Of Hair and and you know you're ready of nailed and you'd right there on the words are the time you know it re accoring back to the blood spilt my generation's lost I almost flip the table. Heightened. I never been closer to picking up a chair in hating someone where in my life. And because one of my friends at the time she who ended up ultimately Beta reading some blood in the notion system blood, she was a filmmaker and she just come off making a short film. That had been screened Sh- around the world and a lot of the actors, some of the actors in the short film of gone on to do bigger things. One of the actresses she's in a movie just finished a movie we chasing clock and Helen Mirren, and she's in these like another inch TV show that's going to be on HBO and you know so and my friend basically helped discover her and short film, and so we both of us had. A background in what we were doing a semi professional background. So we just looked at each Allah. And we were just off men. Foiling. And this other girl, of course taught mocks doing like not even even do any writing she just. Cut Newspapers together and bled over them. I think that if nothing else I, summarize what my experience at university was like. Well you've. Written a lot of short stories and you're not particularly aged individual. So what did you get started on the short stories? That the published short stories. I think when I was nineteen, I started getting research. I started getting good news from at from short fiction edited. The responses weren't just now. We don't want this responses were. This is interesting but we're gonNA pulse as I kept sending them out and sending them out and sending them out and eventually one of them sold for actual money and I was over the moon I'm like, okay off cracked the code I actually can do this. There is actually a way for me to do this because you know if you look at the scale a, you look you look at that wall that impenetrable wall between you and being published rata it looks scalable. but now that I actually had donat I'd actually reached out and found some measure of success at Bruce's my confidence, and so I kept writing and kept writing and kept watching and kept saying them out and eventually one of those stories when I was nineteen and up selling to nature magazine. SORTA and that was pretty amazing for me to. Sell to professional magazine published by Macmillan and to be able to have that. No see my story in print, and now that it's widely distributed all around the world, there was an incredible feeling. Short that actually could do it and so yeah. Just kicked on it from there and I kept writing short fiction over the years and kept saying the mountain I getting my stuff published and it was a it was pretty interesting. I still thinks that I'm a good short fiction ride I only say that because. As someone who has Edited Short Fiction for about six years and has read thousands of thousands of stories I. think There's a very, very, very specific sort of story that most short fiction magazines want. These days although the sort of. Structure was though style that thereafter showed stories and not condensed novels the not truncated novels the not very, very quick stories short stories I think have a very, very specific sort of style to them not just the way they're written about the sort of riders that they appeal to, and that's great. You know the more the more the Merrier but that sort of style generally isn't for me I say generally, because sometimes does a sort of freedom being able to just go wild and experiment will something John, Pov, Chinese setting Chine- of that you know and I'm writing. A hundred eighty thousand would epic dock space operas that are first person voice driven, and so sometimes it's a relief to break away from that and just go crazy But yeah, I don't think I've quite cracked. The sort of thing that most short fiction redes- and editors would luxury I mean if you look at unlike Ted Young he's never written a novel, but he's probably be short fiction writer living today and he's probably one of the only short fiction writers who has modern rods who had his had his work adapted to incredible film That's how good he is. Not only how good he is work is how widely appeals and that in itself is a skill and I daren't thing that something have quite yet. But I didn't want to ask you about The editing for Starship Sofa and. Spoke your both short fiction editor, but it's also audio. Magazine Guess. How has that fed into your own writing in the way that you work with words has been Doing all that editing and reading those thousands of short stories. Do you think that has benefited your own writing going going forward and also how does the audio aspect of that in? OPS absolutely has benefited me I mean it's it's hard not to because I'm reading all this fiction and you know you. You have to come to a conclusion. You know there's no I don't know I like this on on its do I think this is something I wanna buy and give money full Do I want to accept this and be responsible for adapt helping adapted to audio and put it on the podcast is something I've edited I wanNA work with this story The answer is yes on nerve and in order to come to that conclusion, you have to look at a story quarter-on-quarter objectively and thing okay as a ticking boxes does it appeal? To me do I the genre is style dwyer. Great. Do I find the style engaging? Am I do I WANNA keep reading? Do I like the ending? Do I like the approach of is taking you know you do have to sit down and think yes oh no, this is something I wanna. Read I mean we've all read books that were not why show we love them or he kept writing them anyway but doing the short fiction I think really helped me no okay. Yes or no, and one reside Wi- I did that was I read the first page the first couple of pages thing. Okay. Do I want to continue? And knowing, being able to say, yes or Noah's save me not only so much time. But so many headaches because I've gotten fiction that's made my eyes bleed not literally button Clark's to it But thankfully, you know that's not the majority majority of the stuff is is good or it's just okayed but the yeah I would look that the fictional getting and make come to a conclusion either way and it really helped me. I guess nailed down not only what I thought was. Engaging fiction but what I liked no, I like this and a lot of that for a long time. I thought I was A. epic Fantasy Person I. Now, I moved on kind of to Cyberpunk and then I saw a developing a taste for space opera and so being able to know that when I get something. That was sentenced space set in a future or Cetin urban city or something. especially if it was first person or special voice driven always get excited like, yes this is my thing and knowing that are we quantify my niche I think in that really helped me establish. Okay. This sort of thing that I'm into. And so when I be reading I, think, okay. This is what I don't do and this this is a really good trick. This is a really good method of easing into a universe, and so I did slowly accumulate knowledge in that in that way. That'd be less question onset yoke. Next question is slightly less interesting. Audio version way basically works I read I decide if it is something that can be read aloud in audio. On top of it whether if it's a good story, a Senate to a Narita, they do all the hard work of actually reading aloud the Fang and editing it and cutting it together out back to me. I. Just pop it on the show I just pop it up to my. Chief, Tony, and he bought costs. That's pretty much chatter. How did you end up? Being the editor for starship. So forth. How did you make that connection? I think it was meal. Ashley huge shed a first I. Tony. C. Smith cheap. Cart editor in chief at the time and still is He the other guy had left I don't know why or whatever just Damore work there anymore and so I messaged him as at Hey Can I have the job and they showed skyping to view got the later I got the job pretty I'd just a wish everything in my life came to measly as I did. You'd mentioned that you know sort of going through the different genres and seeing what you like in your own short fiction has it. Gone, through various genres as well have you tended to write in one John you're short fiction or sub-genre should say. Yeah definitely. I think it started off very, very much sort of fantasy. Bit. So, you. Know a myth mythological style like the Sky Rim which game of thrones ask sort of low fantasy, Geogra- crumby sort style fantasy, and I still love job. So unlike Java Crombie but that's not the sort of fiction I ever WanNa ride ex just me and I think I did kind of develop more into saga punk. Sort of new age punk fiction like China Navo McDonald be thing. But then I started you know getting more space operas. I consume Alastair Reynolds in a banks Hamilton that sort of thing and I just felt, okay this is the thing that I like and I can. I can I write this and of course, known tells you can all right and saw numbers going to take a stab at it and I did and but I found that short fiction was a little bit constrictive full jeff, the space opera genre specialists on a space upper that I wanted to ride and so. I started developing it more novels and That's your more or less the turn I think the transition happened. In. Late two, thousand, fifteen, early two, thousand, sixteen just come fate riding an epic fantasy a waie fantasy but I absolutely loathed I, got about whom? And I'm like I never wanna read fantasy right fantasy ever again icon stand it. This is not the sort of thing it's not me because I'd go you know okay I just got rejected for I y novel and fifty percent of the rejection said. Why a sci Fi is a very hard sell like science fiction and Hartselle y science fiction is even hostile. And I just come off reading Red Rising and I thought you know this is sort of stigma I'd like to do whilst riding in a fantasy and I'm like I felt trapped by the gene and I thought you know screw it. I'm just GonNa Arrive Whatever I wanNA right If it sells doesn't sell that's fine look a mock it a little bit and thing okay. What's the thing that is appealing to agents and I've always loved crime always loved murder mysteries I thought. I had the ray I the on storming original idea. Hey, what if we had a mystery in space and so I? Am I'm glad I did and because that I wrote that nullum three months it was incredibly. Powerful for me to be able to sit down every day. No matter what I had on and just pour out thousand words or two thousand woods every single day just get it down. No thought of you know is as good as is not good I just aw come back and I'll fix it ladder I just powered it down, punched it out and about three months literally three months I wrote a whole suck space opera novel. And I must've done something right because a year later. I got an agent without novel. Sorry. I'm I'm very very glad I did not do that. was that storm letters novel before storm but? That isn't available full storm lot up because I didn't they. Didn't seem to be mystery novels murder mystery set an outer space so. Now, if not Illinois previous article, the Robie Galaxy, it was about. You know the whole premise of basically what if you were committed full committing a murder you didn't remember committing and so that was as and yet go to the other side of the galaxy to find the answer. But no I, I finished thoughts I'd written in third person and A. Half through on like this, really work well in I still reading a lot of first person fiction and it was a little bit too late. I thought okay. At the end I'll just go back and change when did get to the end I'm like, okay, calm people. Changing it so I though INAU distraught ain't. I think about the end of that year, I decided to just wrap punch out another novel I mean it's even if you get an agent. Having another project near felt is always a good thing having other project Keno in the percolator is you know it's always good to keep those juices flowing. And so I started writing in December or either November December two, thousand sixteen page chapter one of stole blood and authority what if we had? a fiction that was very suspect sentence pace, but it was also very voiced your man. It was first person had an edge to it, and that idea just appeal to me and I wrote that stratton six months and I must have done something right because a year and a half later solar to glance. Well, the seems like a good place for you to give us a synopsis of it without giving away anything you don't want to give away. Some blood yet. Okay Storm Lot. The basic premise is that the DNA of an extinct alien race issues used as drug and it makes people addicted to adrenaline and aggression. and so of course, they this one empire injected into the soldiers them to fight off a brutal invading empire and you know all well and good. You know these salt is literally addicted to killing likley dictate to rotting and I into into bullet storm more costly. Where everything because it's permanent and the High Dan stop when the enemy was ordered by the high stop when the battle came to a close and the day also had these all these soldiers restless and not knowing what to do their embodies and it didn't stop when they will war was over and they got sent higher in which they had these tens of thousands of soldiers permanently addicted to being on a battlefield. And the main premise of this is that main characters won't be solved is comes up from a wool. Traumatized written with PD esteem, but looking for a way to get his life back together anyway the main forces that inducted into the Galactic Empire, whatever you'd like to call it they. They call him back and say we need you to do something for as were starting to do with him fall various reasons because they ruined his life I liked to him at liked him millions of people at the cost of the cost of winning a wall but at reconnaissance and he says why talked to you and it turns out that his fellow soldiers, the ones that he knows and loves a whole being noted being killed off being overdosed. And turns out that his brother is the prime suspect. he's estranged brother of prime suspect and so. As the unfolds, you find out he's history he finally his history with his broadly, you find his history with his teammates and the whole central conflict is that he was very, very close this probably developed very strong brotherhood You know when they will list surviving together on a brutal backwater planet when those evolving abusive father and he transferred that same sense of pro-hunting commodity to fighting a wall where the only people who knew what it was like to have an alien organism actually like squirming around in your head and. Sniffing up your chest and sniffing up your back barn was to be with and you know what it felt like to be in cover and see the enemy charging towards you and like get excited. Yes. The people shooting at me to actually get gentlemen spike the only people who knew what that was like whereas fellow soldiers, what it was like to you know want to be suicidal and so developed a very, very strong personal relationship with him and he comes harm as I sat in finds out, they're being moded potentially by his. Rather, have been murdered by his flesh and blood draw. Andrew the Hull Sandra conflict is him keeping the balance between not being able to heart down to kilns while dealing with the fact that his own brother is rendering them, and of course, because this won't be a good start that you know central personal conflict, the mole investigate danger the more his more dictate to a gentleman and aggression he gets because he's been out of the wharf years. So he's able to control his buddies able to his coaches but of course, when he's going up against skills and a shadowy organization that doesn't quite work out. And so the mole confrontations he gets into the mobile hyped up and the more dangerous he gets and the more dangerous his body get since our that's does that balancing act of keep of trying to get this all done while still not going insane basically. Well. It's a bit of a Crochet question. But you know it still the what where do you get your ideas? So what was the seat for this? Where did this the seat for this novel come from that that then sprouted into this trilogy? It was just my original genius to sitting in the dark room and stinking all. No, not at all I are very very heavily from cinema and gaming because on a very visual person. And so the idea of. a future society is always intrigued me both than ideas level in a visual level to be able to you know go to some central city on a spaceship no galactic Kind of core on from Star Wars and to guard down and all these neon dunk cities elise busy streets that are frantic with a these different alien species and different spaceships. You know that idea is always very, very much appealed to me, and so I knew that I pretty much to set my story and that some of universe. And one thing I've found is that there is very little of. Wars esque Soda Fiction Being Written Is Not tie in There's a lot of you get a lot of alien stories that either first contact stories, old stories that up basically wore different stories at these humans are fighting a war against these aliens. There's not quite as many stories about a six five future society where human than aliens have you know have joined forces all desert multi-species society like sort of mass effect and that's my bread and butter of fiction, and the wasn't quite as much as I would have liked. But. So I wanted Iraq then I thought okay. What about you know? Let's make your bit. We'd a you know what? If the idea of? This, how will we people upgrade ourselves? Also modifications will be make and then I, thought you know what? If one of occasions we made? From, the DNA of Aliens how how would that work and how would it be grefell selves with Alien Biometrics or whatever. But then I thought. Let's make it a little bit more interesting. What's the cost to that surely has to be a cost and the cost was at its a drunk and makes you addicted to getting an Adrenalin spike it's makes you addicted to your body chemistry? And then I saute developing the idea of a brother of two brothers who had a very good relationship with Anwar strained. and then started developing that relationship slowly as I wrote the book but yet I definitely a character driven story to attack driven also I am modern plot. So the Guy So steph did combine the idea of a this idea of this alien DNA with the idea of these two brothers under smashing together and just started wetterau went on from that or what? What did your planning process look like you talked about developing the characters as you wrote, did you do a lot of outlining ahead of time or just? What did that look like for you? that's that's a pretty good question most fascinated by this question as well because it's very hard to tell when you see a finished product knowing what into what went into and I get a lot of different answers. Yeah. Yeah In my case, I outlined the broad strokes. I knew that I wanted to have this to happen and I wanted the Tigers to be doing this, and I wanted this sort of resolution midway and I wanted to have this sort of seen and I wanted to have this sort of off. more or less how I go slid in between that. I pretty much just wrote on the governor and but as I did that, I, more or less figured out okay. This is what I wanted to do and one of those things was one of the side characters I'm like okay I haven't quite gone his voice down Ivan quite gotten his approach is his personality and in order for me to write a character after no sort of festive, they are because of who they are influences. The behavior relationship, the dialogue, and I can't just you know if I don't get a concrete so it's going to be wet clay and saw went back a little bit and did a bit of character tweaking but more or less. I just went you know started going from potent point and just weasling my way through those points deciding okay. With this has happened. Okay. How they're going to get to the next point and I just rocked up one day and deciding no. Okay, we'll do this Dodo here they'll do that but the broad strokes off the narrative, the big conch, the big enga points would definitely outlined from. alerted redefinition outlined and I think about comes from. Film out of all things because I as I said, I'm very I'm very spy film and one of the favourite my favorite films films way I feel like the direct has a very tight control over the narrative of every shot of every. Scene of of the emotion that you're expected to get from every point in the film like I'm a very, very big. Fan. Of some film like for example, the film there will be blood direct with Daniel Day. Lewis? That film is so incredibly tight. You just know that every behind the camera, he was an absolute control like director like bombs Scorsese. All Christopher Nolan or geneva-new you get like something later on twenty, forty nine like this is what they want to do, and this is how we achieve and this they chief exactly that and that sort of thing that I enjoy doing being able to control my narrative unfortunately, the Human Brain Simmons has other ideas and as I've discovered with writings riding to and outlying three. Sometimes, that doesn't always go to plan and so sometimes being able to adapt and figure out. Okay. This is actually what I wanNA. Do you get to a certain point in the narrative and you're like actually my cactus don't want to do this. Well, I don't want to do this all getting better and you have to adopt You have to be able to go along with that and I refuse to write anything that I don't WanNa right because I feel like, okay. The narrative needs it all this what I planned. I can't do that. I need to be a right something that I feel. Is. What I want to write. What is your actual writing process quick. Fast writer you're so or do you use parchment under a tree out in the backyard or? Do you go to a coffee shop how does it work for you? Know. Not I signed the lifeblood of other authors, dreams, and still that into pen paper. No try that. I'm pretty sure that girl from university I'm pretty sure she was doing that. So I am a Rod, I can do three, thousand, four, thousand, five, thousand dollars a day You know when I was riding storm blood. That's what of the Soda Mileage that I was counting out. You know I was doing box full thousand words that sometimes only two thousand dollars words who good sometimes I would write some words and all of them were good I wish those days happen more frequently than they do. but no I I, do typically go to cafes because I have a studio apartment and I have a lot of things all my books, all my games he and if I and a multitude of distractions either from dog or my family or Anything else comes along, take me wife from my little world and so being able to go to a cafe you know for some reason being around screaming children and and you know. Waiting. For that reason somehow helps me to. You know if I if doesn't matter what it is if I'm away from harm I can write. Wars lead I can and when I'm at home and so being able to go down to a beach beachside cafe and you are live at pound at three, thousand, four, thousand words go to the POB pan out if you would. Often earn it. It really helped me distill what I need to do. editing is a little bit more tricky because I'm. I said I'd try be in control of my craft and so being able to be at home and on my big monitor. I think helps me more specifically but being able to get out the role words. nothing gets down like a do when I'm going to cafe or going somewhere public. It really just helps me get those words down and sometimes that's just what you need to do is to make you fiction work. Yeah. I ask a lot of authors that obviously and I personally like to write out side somewhere when I can doesn't but a lot of that recently. But One of the. Things that I found. Another author mentioned this to to me is that. They're fine with a wash of sound from a busy place. But if you get a sort of a quieter place, but there's somebody's sitting coast, you having a conversation with somebody else those words can really interfere when they're writing at least I find that or do you able to know that out in the background? No matter what's going on? Now I I definitely agree unless everything. So cluttered that it turns into a white nor vice. ICON they've Sony's having a conversation right next me I it does filter it. I do have very nice pair of noise cancelling headphones that I make very, very good use of. Its doesn't music instrumental music because words in the music at the same problem. Yeah, exactly. EXA-. Exactly. The science I've just got this massive playlist of you know soundtrack some Hans Zimmer and John Johnston and Brian, and all these other great out of some great music soundtracks that really helped me to steal the sort of thing that I'm trying to write and not a very, very useful. You mentioned editing. So what does your revision process look like you right straight through and then edit from start to finish do you do it rolling revision as you go Had you work? That's an interesting question because working with Edita is five different than it is working at self editing your on project and my editor as Jillian, redfin, nickel aunts she edits job crumby Morgan Reynolds Joe Hill a bunch of other fantastic riders. So she very very much knows her Croft. So the way that we did storm. What one was that we edited the first half of the bulk. once because we we did structural changes as she ended the first half of it, I went back did my editing with edit those changes she looked at Silva sort of changes out that I had made and then. edited the the second half the book to apply the ripple effects from from Brooklyn from the first off. So basically, the things that changed in the first half she then helped edit with those changes in mind for the second half, and so we basis she ended the first half, the boat Weiss basically, and so I've actually had to keep that in mind when I am writing doing my editing thinking. Okay. I kind of look at it as a central circle k. what's the big structural things that I got of changes? A character is a world building is you know the big plot revelations? What of the big things are changing? You know I'm not preoccupied with small things like once seen or the an chopping down an action scene or Lisa shouldn't be I'm trying to think of the big things. Okay. Do I actually need an action scene here because you can? Edit. Your Life your heart out of a scene, and this is actually applicable for something that I just didn't book to. I had these all these different points going on in those one scene that was taking up a lot of time and it wasn't getting too much and so on built it down and wilted and wilt down and Chop Back Back. Chocolate. Back. And it came to the point where I realized. Okay. This is getting the absolutely nothing I've got three action scenes in one hundred or so pages what just talk chop two of those out and just make the big one big action sane and that way I can stack on attention instead of being a stop start stop start sort of approach and being able to do that being able to look at the whole thing in my head and being able to. See, okay, this is what I need is what I need. Help a lot as opposed to going in picking up details because I'll do that forever. Honestly I ended his need to try the far away from my whole hands because I'm just white none another those one word he won't to a spacecraft or ship much should a call it warp drive all hot space just let me change at one thing. And third being able to look at the big picture. Really does help me but I say, okay. I'M NOT GONNA be pre to preoccupied in this line of dialogue from his character I'm going to be preoccupied with is this what I want the background of the is this what I want their. Their their approach to these as will die wilder I'll talk to be, and that really helps being to look at the big picture and hold a big thing in my head. It's great help and being able to do that. Helps me. You know really self interrogate I guess sort of book that I'm trying to ride and even if it's a waste of time, even you like. I've spent a whole day looking at this character. Yes I'm happy with the way I don't want to change it that reaffirms in your mind. Yes I've made the right decision is what I want and that can be a really good thing. You mentioned in your acknowledgements quite a few Beta readers where do they commission most? they came in by telling me what not what I wanted to hear, but what I needed to hear. And yet they one of the best calm inside God's was from a radical Jim Anderson she writes on the Gbi Anderson. And she said to me and she of she's a writer and Orange One Wall Ansi Ward which brilliant. And she said A. your characters the two main characters, they they always class clash professionally, they never clashed personally. What they argue about is always not the job it's never about each other or about each ellas attitudes and so that really helped me separate. That when I'm writing CACTUS. Okay. These people just doing because of a small office polo or are they arguing because of the character flaw and that really helped me shift the I guess from plot. To character and I always like my books, his character driven as I can, and so that really really helps and so they have basically they all did help you know helping me. Get I understand counted understanding of what works what doesn't work and batteries always going to disagree though is going to give you come information, which is absolutely fine but being able. Hear from a bunch of people locate this sort of thing I like this is the thing that I think works. Well, I think that is more helpful than skimpily okay. We'll do not like this or this. This isn't working being able to see what's to keep people's boxes. I think that's a really good way to. Get. To find out once look in your book. How. Did you find your bitter readers? I will need a few of them from Sasha, surf up Ashley from. Field things but did I'm emailed a few of them were told a few people hey, I would like to do at Betari to solve and there are some of their books and they read mine and yet. I just stay. Yet, then that's basically how it happened this entrepreneur lottery outlast the when all people clamoring to read my my scribblings it was just me reaching out to some people that knew and asking them. Hey. WanNa read my book and Alban, ran away. Screaming for the hills. Run away screaming for help. So the book came out in June, it's your your first novel. What what was the experience like for you to get that first book. And see it in print. Exhilarating I mean it was probably the worst time in the world having a debut novel. Yes, well, you know covet Case in point, the hardback got canceled from a book. Bought Reason Giga canceled is because Goldsboro books a very, very nice independent seller in London. Who collects first edition signed hardbacks and gives them sprayed edges. So they've got everything that's GonNa sign the dish of catch twenty, two about all signed additions of all the James Bond. Every major all up pretty much gets you know a Holocaust assign with them like you know I think I've got a very nice hot cup from Java Crombie and some of them are still going up for like five thousand, ten, thousand pounds. The physician anyway. So I got two, hundred, fifty copies from them. They decided to take two fifty hot backs and I got a very nice gold spray tages. and. so they sold out within a week. Georgia. Fifty copies sold out in Axel out within the week before the book had even come out officially and according to my agent, and that's incredibly. To happen and for science fiction author happens all the time for fantasy but let service is fiction early but that was quite a shock to reads. While the actually an audience because it's impossible to gauge how many Bletchley no by your book and people actually know what people are interested in. and. So that was quite a bit of a shock but I, but nothing I think compared to be able to get that package and being open up and seeing you know your name, Lacob Line oil words written in these pages it was exhilarating and but being able to go out and see. Go to the bookstore and as you see it in the wild see ready for purchases. He people walking posit that is another thing entirely and be able to see who your neighbors are is well as what interesting My neighbors I have pretty good neighbors in my name. Jim Skull. Neil Stevenson Tad, I, Thomson and. Agent off scheme some little known hack could tolkien. So yeah I imagine you'll be quite big someday. Neighbors depending on all but yes, that's quite fun somebody with a last name somebody who last name of W I tend to be on the very bottom shelf, which is always annoying but I'm down Williamson's so that can't hurt. On her. Yeah but. It is quite fun to being able to go there and it's actually a real thing. Now, because the way the interesting works you don't actually know if anything's GonNa go pear-shaped at any time being embassy in it's in the while it's a real thing. It's people's harms who come by and read. It feels real feels done like this is a book. That's potus is fiction Canon and were already. and. So me able to know that you've contributed to that that Canon, you've actually contributed to nature. Is is quite is quite amazing. Well, that kind of. Nicely, into my other reverse question, the big philosophical questions. which is really Why why? Why why do you do this and also what you know? This podcast is called world-shapers and I often say that you know it's a lot of asking any fiction actually shape the world I think very little fiction has had a huge impact on the world as old, but you're shaping readers in some fashion with your fiction so Why do you right and what do you hope you're writing? What impact your writing we'll have on readers. I, write the lab stop screaming. On I'm I right because I enjoy I, do actually enjoy the process all getting those words down. I enjoy being able to create something that didn't exist and being able to transplant that. Id of think something that free prior to me sitting down putting words to it didn't exist. It wasn't a thing being able to have it be concrete and being able to try and being able to put that people's heads. Is quite niche is something I quiet emmy and impact people as even better in towns you question I'm getting a lot of people quite a lot of people saying to me how much how touched they were by the the portrayal of Brotherhood in in my book and how much they? Really. Felt for the main character and his feelings and how heartbreaking that relationship that deteriorating relationship was with his brother and how heartbreaking it was to see how what's our hot warming. But what's to seek in gaining relationship with his fellow soldiers and his friends I mean it was see slowly built up and that signing that quite special to me because in a lot of fiction especially between men. I fame as a lot of it's very rarely platonic kits. It's always seems to be sexualize D- a lot of fiction as well. All it affection between men and women. Automatically seems to be sexualize ordinarily seems to be building to a romance and my point next great you know and there's definitely Ron Kimble but I do come from A. Perspective of friendship of of the Brotherhood of really doing what Eddie can for your friends. So matter how much it hurts and being able to see that it worked that actually that that's something that appeals to me very much I mean able to see them. I stab at it the my attempt of dice of portraying rahood and showing the Hawk breaking this of showing the highs and lawyers and the benefits and. Built up and what it means to people, and how you know guilds influences people in how people try to get redemption. Chata do out of the way for forgiveness just. So the people that they matters to them you know that. That they can build that relationship back. Yeah. That's a very messy in sticky. You know sort of topic coming able to see that. So many people have rick shot to me sang much. It's meant them is it's it's great. I mean that's all I could want I mean I could have the well buildings good. The plot is interesting. Twists coming but really at the end of the day. If I can if some people say me these two characters, I the emotions that are feeling I felt him and it touched me that's all I can want. And we are getting close to the end here. So what are you working on now? Obviously book to in book three in the trilogy. Books were able to is. in the sense that the woods are on the page November and the right audience But I am working on that and I've just been talking with my editor. have been slowly outlining what I'm going to do in book three, which is limited scary and when I got the deal white back when in like two thousand eighteen when we could still go outside i. I never asked I didn't end cross my mind that I'd be writing a trilogy because I tried to just get right. My books is a singular product. So now that I actually I'm sitting down thinking okay I'm GonNa do that in Book Three Have that law thing happened in book three. It's quite a it's quite a different feeling I. thank him. So that's what I'm kind of doing now really sitting down and distilling that you know and but it it is a slow process and it's but it is happening slowly but it's keeping me out of trouble. So that's that's always good and have you fought beyond this trilogy to what might come next? No No, I'm not I myself to do that. Look just now. I mean I have ideas. Of course I've got of plenty of ideas and all of them most of them are was you know the page the printed on and surrounding computer that's absolutely non all but. I. Am I am of course you know always having things churning on back in the mental perky let up. But not at the moment I'm just really focusing on making these best books that I can I mean even if I never get to ride another trilogy I just WanNa make sure that these count. So this is where my attention was going. And where can people find you online? They can find me on Jeremy's all DOT COM or at Twitter Act. Jeremy's all or on facebook yet. That's Orrin good. Regional usual places, aunts all is s Z. A. L. said in Australia doing, Canada. No. Not. American soon, account. We have from English sent the. Essa said A. L. is also. Well thanks so much for being on the world shapers. I had a great time talking to you. Hope you enjoyed it. Right thank you very much and thank you very much checking out loud as well. I really do appreciate it. Well, I'm looking forward to finishing it I found the. I found the writings. Really driving forward at very rich in very descriptive and great characterization at all the stuff I have a big fan of space opera. In fact, one of my proposals Dr Right now is for a space opera so. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to to finishing it and then carrying on reading the rest of the trilogy as it comes out. Right. Thank you very much by for now. Thank you. So, thanks again to Jeremy's all for being on the world shapers. That was great conversation I. Hope you enjoyed it as much. As I did just reminder that you can find the world shapers online after the world shapers dot com and you can find it on twitter at the world shapers you can find it on facebook out to the world shapers. You can find me online at e Willett E., W. I l. l. e. t. t. that's twitter. You can find me at my website, which is Edward Willett dot com again to tease on, we'll you can find me on facebook at Edward Dot will let you can find me on Instagram at Edward Willett author and sometimes I even post stuff they're. Also just what it reminds you again about the upcoming anthologies, shapers of worlds It's being process right now to be available preorder the EBA version September twenty second from all the major retailers. Some processing that has to happen there bef- before it will go up but I'm working on that right now and then the print version will be available in the mid November. Widely available the kickstarter print version is at the credit right now. So this is completed project some great authors in it and I think you will enjoy it coming up on the world shapers. We have more great authors They have a bunch of them lined up right now and I can't remember them all off the top of my head. But some of the names that I do remember a cat Rambo is coming up James, Morrow I've got Kate Elliott will be coming up very shortly and further down the list I'm working on F, Paul Wilson and Dr has been confirmed, and there's some others in there as well. So some great. Future episodes already lined up for the world shapers I hope that you will continue to come back week after week and listen to these great interviews with the authors who created some of the world's and some of the characters that we have enjoyed reading about so much over the years. That's it for this episode of the World Shapers Talk to you next time I for now. Do.