Hey, everyone esquire magazine called today's guest. One of the most influential people of the twenty first century. David Chang is a chef author in creator of some of the world's most distinguished restaurants including Momofuku. Awarded two Michelin Stars in two, thousand nine and every year since I read his memoir EDP each in the weeks leading up to the interview. But his openness and honesty still took me by surprise after talking with David. I'm once again joined by dating expert coach in creator of Level Online matchmaking April buyer April is so insightful and offer some great practical advice on healthy approaches dating. I want to thank all of you again for your support your feedback in simply just listening to the podcast please keep sending us your questions and telling us your stories just go to unqualified dot com and look for the link. Okay. Here's David. Ladies and gentlemen you're listening to qualify. Affairs. David. What's up first of I can't thank you enough for doing this. Of course. Thank you for having me I. Listen to Your Memoir on audio book, and I'm so glad that I did it is so moving and compelling. It's so well written. How are you feeling about everything I don't know it's weird. You know it's present for a lot of people that are learning about it or reading about it but it's maybe a little bit like a you know a TV show or movie that comes out by the time you do the press you're like wait it's so weird to talk about it in present day, and of course, I wanted to do well but it's also strange that I have it all out there. So I sort of ignore it. Yes. Tennessee right. Totally my strategy yeah that there is that vulnerable feeling and then having to do. Press, where you're forced to recap your memoir, I hate doing press. It's really difficult for me. Listen as a chef I never thought I'd have to do press with food media to begin with, and then when we started a film TV shows, I never thought I would be one of those people that you see on like e television news where they sit in a hotel room to doing interview after interview and I don't know how you guys do it because you're the same question over and over and over again and I'm like, wow, these fucking guys are really good actors because how the hell do it. Megan the tuna carpaccio night after night. I wanted to start this interview asking you to tell our listeners about red dragon sauce. Yeah. Why don't we do that? I. Over the years have realized that so much what? Who has done foodwise has been very educational I think trying to push the boundaries trying to make delicious food innovative value but also it's sort of been a jokey art project to especially when it comes to like racism in Asian, American Food and representation and I just get so mad when I see people mark Asian food with the dragon lettering and everything and I knew people were gonNA. Copy our recipes to without I don't mind copying just do the homework and pay respect own Stuff. I want to get into the idea of duplication. So I knew people are GonNa, copy it, and I also knew they were GonNa copy it blind you tell our listeners what it is well, red dragon sauce basically what you're John which is like a Korean chili sauce. If you go to Korean restaurant, you get it on European bob or rice cakes. It's a very like ubiquitous thing it would be a Heinz Ketchup exactly and I just thought let's just make it this fucking ridiculous name Red Dragon Sauce and nobody not one person questioned the name. Over the years I probably say couple dozen times I've seen it on menus. And I think there's actually a restaurant that called itself Red, dragon sauce or something like that to right that was like their special how sauce that chapter really got me thinking about our ideas original essentially and you write about how every chef owes a debt a gratitude to some degree to everybody before them I admire people who strive for an original idea and you are that person in sometimes it works and it's Incredible to see I felt like what I heard in your book is your passion towards the conception of a brilliant idea to completion like has your theory been proved your I think it has, but also it's a work in progress. Right? There's a line by Stanley Kubrick the great director that I've used. It's like every been done in film every shot every angle, every line your job is just to ten percent better. And in food, it's almost impossible to invent something new and the people that do invent something new like the Nestle's the Mars the giant conglomerates that can create just about anything, and the reality is a lot of the techniques you see in restaurants are copies of what those companies created the failed patents, and I think the older I get the more I realize there's nothing I've ever done. That's truly original making something original. Is the intent to make better that's what I mean. It doesn't mean completely new is like can I make it better than it's been done before that to me is originality that's an amazing way to put it I love it when you write about why get mad about food because I, related to that in terms of have worked with actors who don't seem to really love acting and like anybody we can fucking gripe about All kinds of Shit like, oh, my five am call or whatever like it is especially frustrating when I work with people who don't seem to just like that performance elements and so when you write about working with people that don't have your drive and passion how it makes you angry will even people close to me why do you care so much I've never been able to easily articulate it because I don't know why. I care about something perfectly or making this dish as delicious as possible in some ways I think it gives me meaning at the end of the day. It's why be mediocre at something you have like one life this is your task. This is your job whatever it is, and I know it sounds cliche if i. was telling a younger version of myself like ten year old Chang. I'd be like shut the hell up but. You know the irony is too. I didn't care about doing things properly like most of my life I've always been allergic to work I never went to class. I could give a shit about doing anything right? Fully my clothes doing anything even now I can't take care of myself. But when I'm in the kitchen, everything has to be done bright. It's a weird thing and I think a lot of professional chefs feel the same way I don't know how many forty year olds, two, six year olds listen to this podcast. But whoever they are wherever they are if they have that twenty four year old son that's living at their house right now, they're pissed off at you. Because you don't want to be told what to do well, maybe he could become that shaft honey very few people got as drunk as I did or did as many drugs or got as low of GPA as I did you're a man of extreme? Yeah. I really. I have no idea how it all worked out. So we golfing. Way To, be like a pro golfer well, I wonder how you go from a single minded focus like golf to a very multitasking lifestyle like being a chef running kitchen and your multiple businesses. Did you learn suddenly to be a crazy hyper multitasker? No, and most people would say, David, your horrible multitasker I mean that's just the truth. But the thing with golf is I never really enjoyed playing golf my dad forced to do it and. I burned out at age twelve I mean that's all I did every day play golf in you know not age of my life I was such an obnoxious little shit because I thought it was better than everybody else in the reality was I was better than most people until I wasn't and that's when I think I just couldn't handle not being better than people that your dad viewed you as a prodigy that would help the family. Help the family. It was what he wanted me to be I have no idea how he does vision but he's like you're going to be a professional golfer maybe he took some LSD and I don't know I have no idea how the hell he came up with this idea. My mom wanted me to be a pianist and for seven years I took piano lessons. Did you enjoy it at? All Fuck? No. Do you play it at all now? No, but about you do you play golf well, the last time I played seriously I threw my clubs into the ocean I fucking hate it I still have this disconnect disconnected I could beat everybody in the world even though there's no way I can. But Golf was so ingrained in me and I guess Kino's a little bit similar. So imagine if you playing like competitive piano. Right. That's sort of what my life was like, and at some point you just fuck I'm to try to be good at this and I got very competitive and that is what is the connection between golf in whatever my restaurant life became. That's how I got anything done is I hate losing I hate losing so much. It drives me crazy. So you must hate doing things you're bad at yes. But that's why actually do it. What about something like bowling if I had the time to poll, I would try to become the best bowler of all time. I would do it over and over and over again that's my personality. I will do the things that are not like to do I've been a waitress and I was a waitress at a retirement home. yeah. No Tips Five, twenty, five, an hour. But at least there were only two menu options is like the chicken breast tuna-fishing. And You describe in your book, a position in the kitchen that is under looked. Oh Yeah. so that's the garbage as station. So let me just for the listeners that if you work in, let's say a fancy restaurant more than likely. It's based on a French system and that fresh system was traded by this guy named coffee like one hundred years ago, and he based on the military system in France and the word shaft means boss Sous Chef means under shaft. There's a chef pepper tea, which is like the head of a station, and then you have chef de cuisine, which is basically number two. Technically and everything is regimented and there's a hierarchy and you have the SASKIA slash meet stations. You have the person yea, which is the fifth station you have the entre Ta, which is the vegetable grain station and so on and so forth and the station that day currently I think it's not the love that deserves the Garm on Jay Station, which is the cold station and the Colts Station in cultures like Japan and France are deemed as the highest station of honor. It is the most technically difficult station to do why because you have to learn how to not just make salads and Vinogradnoye you. Also. Do charcuterie which is making sausages and Pat Taes Tureens, anything that's cold. You're in charge of that sounds kind of boring station. Yeah. That's the thing. A lot of cooks including myself groping like I don't WanNa do that fucking station and I want to be on the line I wanNA cook over there where it says cool and dangerous that's not the case if you learn how to be great at that Station, it will serve you very well down the road in your career because learning to flip a piece of meat however that might seem to be difficult to somebody is not that difficult and. It's never easy to do but to have skill and mastery I think as the most important station. But a lot of people at least America's think of it dismissively as just the salad station and in some restaurants it is and I think there's a big divide between what it could be and what people understand it to be, and you write about those hours of chopping and topping. That's what cooking is. It's the dumbest Shit listen I don't know how cooking became popular because in like twenty five years it being a coal miner if that's even around or something like that working in the oil rig. Then I'm going to the world is just totally out of control I don't know what the hell's happening because that's sort of the repetition and drudgery that cooking is it's chopping cleaning, chopping and cleaning. Ninety percent of your day is just doing that you don't get to really do anything new early on like back in March. When we first began to quarantine I would comfort myself by watching kind of odd beings on Youtube. Like some ad for a cruise ship or something which was complicated in and of itself but they were having close up shots at the food and there was lots of garnish and it was at a time when I was first digesting like the potential trauma or certainty I. Remember Thinking will the aesthetic of food be no longer counted was thinking about this as my roots growing out as well like I'm not wearing a bra like, fuck All the protocol is going in for me. That's where I'm at and I think I was headed to this direction before the pandemic of what's the point of doing something that is frivolous I always use the example of like a three Michelin Star restaurant where you're serving a duck breast and you trim the duck perfectly into a rectangle and I've been in kitchens. I've worked in these kitchens you throw away all the other parts of the duck. Well that's fucking stupid. I think it's important to ask how useful or restaurants. Oh, they're so useful. But they're also sort of frivolous to right people could question the same thing about my profession. I. Think we're way less useful than you guys do. You guys give joy. Restaurants can do that too. But yeah, I don't know and being able to cook at home as much as I have that has made me realize what food is without sounding like cheesy hallmark card cooking for people that need to be fed people that you want to express your love to. It's always what like Grandma's food is it's just simple. It's delicious. It's perfectly. Imperfect and I think restaurants should have a little bit more of that and I'm guilty of you know my restaurants and the restaurants I. Often Meyer you WanNa be like the coolest thing you want to do the most innovative thing. But at the end today, just feeding people right David can I give you two countries and you describe your most memorable meal does not best. Done what's and be one Italy Italy? Okay. My most memorable meal was in Milan Abou- ten eleven years ago, and I was there doing a culinary conference and I was dining out with my friend who's a local and he said you gotta go to this restaurant. This grandma makes all the food by yourself and Milanez food is very different than the rest of Italy. At that time, I, had some understanding of Italian food but didn't know like it's actually sort of weird because it's got a lot of French and German influences. That's where like you got the effective like Schnitzel it's just not what you think Italian food is and I just got this whole lesson. What food from Milan could be and it was beautiful. It was also the. Trump will season and we have everything and she brings out this giant wheel of Gorgonzola. And, then she takes a giant birthday cake size of. Stinky blue cheese and puts it on her plate in front of us and they should take a grapefruit size white truffle and she's just a entire way. Trump will all over this cheese and I'm thinking to myself like. Is going on that's not gonNA work. That's the dumbest combination I've ever seen. Secondly, I'm like, why would you waste a white truffle on this and then my friend in Italian translates what I'm asking to her and she basically looks at me with disdain saying I grew up thinking the potato was more valuable than the truffle and a lot of times did they would rather have had a potato than truffle because that was more nourishing and gave them more sustenance. Don't give a shit about this and on top of all when I tasted the cheese with. The tons of white truffle. It was maybe the single best buy the food I've ever had because it was not remotely close to anything I've tasted in my life. It didn't make any fucking sense effectively again, it's a tiny blue cheese and it's incredibly pungent and fierce and I don't know why. But I put a disconnect because I thought, oh. Why truffles have to be treated carefully and delicately but the reality is the flavors gnarly to and when you combine that together, it just actually balanced each other out and it was like I don't know fucking Shit. Fuck and shit this is amazing. I love that. Vietnam I have not been view now I haven't either the reason why I'm saving it. I think the food of anonymous. So beautiful. So if I go there I, want to spend like a couple of months at least. Yeah. Okay. Spain. Okay. I'll give you Spain. I'll take Spain because it was the most memorable meal Omar Great. So I was filming lucky peach which got renamed minded a chef and I was there again doing another culinary conference and when I say colony conference, I like fashion shows you go in front of Bunch of people and You show them the latest techniques in the shit that you're working on a your restaurants and have all these other friends and great chess you Daniel Balloon widely defraigne and Tony Gordon was there when you go to these culinary conferences, you were fed like a fucking pig, the best ship the Best Ibero Ham Caviar you name Oh my God and Spain you cannot eat any vegetables. It just doesn't it's all meat there's no green leafy vegetables. I. Swear to God. In Spain I go to McDonald's for that little fucking salad. Cup because that's the only fucking place. You can get something that's not a can white asparagus something can't everything's canned fucking vegetables or pork or beef, and you crave vegetables and fruit, and we're tired of drinking 'cause in San Sebastian where we were at, they drink giant goblets of gin tonics. I know it's fucking insane. I don't even know how became the drink of that area, but we're talking about like double big gulps. It's only if glass they have for GIN and tonics, they're like sixty four you're like how the fun. On This is fucking weird. The bars they're just serve GIN and tonic. There's no other fucking drink giant goblins Gin and tonic your so fucking drunk, you're so full and you've been eating so well, the last thing you WanNa do is honestly sound. So noxious you get tired of eating. So that's where we're all at the last night and so many of the restaurants in San Sebastian are in the countryside ninety minutes outside the city and I remember drinking the tonic Tony Daniel blue and widely defraying faulk. Go this restaurant Turbo this beautiful flatfish, it's probably my favorite fish in the world to eat and they're like fucking turbo God I can't eat another guy turbo and we're coming up with reasons of how not to go there and maybe if we just keep on drinking, we won't have to go. So we got fucking Shit faced at one of the GIN and tonic bars. That's always a great business daily. and. That's thing I know the the vendor like you have to go. So I don't even remember much of how he got into a car getting to this restaurant, but it's now packed with all the ten dis and we are fed up with the best of the best and we're all sitting out this giant table. It's as beautiful restaurant overlooking the ocean again last place in the world we wanted to be at and this is how you know what was amazing meal. We couldn't stop eating it was so fucking good. It was the best meal I've ever fucking had with the turbo came out even Daniel Balloon was trying to serve everybody and he was shocked they're like no on it's off the bone. So they take these giant turbos and their best in the wintertime, right because they fat and they grill everything over charcoal. Grilling they spritz them with the local Sherry Vinegar. My description isn't doing a justice. It's sort of an affable because it's like eating barbecued fish in its gelatinous shrimps O. Wow. And you're like licking your fingers shits all over your face. It's unreal and we kept on thinking like we are. So if we miss the meal. Fucking, idiots. Is, still. One of the highlights of my life really was amazing. 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You get the same signature comfort cushioning your used to from all birds but in a vintage inspired awesome looking to all birds is on a mission to leave the planet in better shape than they found it and hopefully these. Past. Months have made us all aware that things really need to change. We all need to look out for each other and do our part to protect the planet we share with all birds feel confident knowing you're wearing a product that's doing right by your feed and the planet learn more about sustainable practices and find your pair at all birds dot com. Today. Okay if you could live anywhere in the world for a year, I'd probably. Thailand Vietnam, those are two parts of the world where the cuisines are unbelievable to me. The food is outrageous and from what I know of the people would be great too and listen I might do that anyway for a while I had this list completely uninformed of men and professions you should not date and I have not dated that much I. Think I've been out on three dates and then I just I get married. But the list went as follows magician musician. What do you have against magicians this and we spent a long time going through all of this. Right. All right I just wanted to tell you number four is chef. A clown isn't in the top three. Well, clowns autumn blend to the magician. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, listen I. Think your list is completely accurate. Thank you. So I was so thrilled you were coming on the show I thought Oh this will be great territory for David because my theories dating chef we're not unlike potential red flags for an athlete with a professional athlete it felt like he like the emotional support you must give after every game with one degree or another would just exhausts me personally and then my assumption with a chef only having watched hell's kitchen. Is that I bet the food will be amazing. That would be a real perk but it cultivate a degree of temperament that I'm not sure I could handle. Then I listened to your book and I was like can't fucking ask David Chang about his anger issues in a humorous way because she can she can. Listen I can't speak on behalf of all chefs but there's two people I tell the opposite sex or the same sex never date don't data Korean guy and never data chef. An actress. Right and my wife got both the Christian guy and the chef, the double-whammy and I'm just a harness of a person and I have been. So you're right chefs have for the most part if you're a private chef or you don't have some kind of corporate working. GIG. Your hours are horrible even if you have Monday to Friday, you're probably not coming home till one in the morning to in the morning and the other thing is people think that my wife or even the people have died in the past they eat extremely well, I never cooked at home ever. I act at home on occasion. And It's your job. Why would you want to do that and that's the funny thing. The last thing you ever want to do after spending all day kitchen is to spend more time in the kitchen. So you know my wife literally thought that I was a fraud because I never cooked for for like a year. And the other reason why I never cooked for her is cooking for someone while you're dating too early sets the bar too high to suit you mean man David Chang I know I know I know I said that is true. Now Cook all the time you have plane like your card right off marrow or no? No. That's why you gotTa hold out as card because I don't have many cards to play like my only fucking car. But truthfully now, now that I'm home and I'm not working like I used to I cooked so much in my life has changed and I've grown up a lot and I think being a dad and reprioritizing my life has caused me to reevaluate who I am and why I do what I do. There's a time and place to be young dumb and obnoxious it's the same. Equivalent of being like two old of dude dating like two young of a person right? It'll just looks weird I. Think I've always wanted to be somebody that grew up in a reasonable way and I think for too long I was just stuck being this super angry obnoxious asshole and I think for the most part I. Still those things but I'm trying I'm trying to grow up. Forever Great Examiners of how people perceived us all the time I. Think it's pretty accurate. I think people got me pretty good when I was younger I mean I was pretty monotone as a person just an angry motherfucker. So yeah, like people say you're an Asshole, they were pretty accurate. All right David we're getting back to what is your favorite ice cream flavor shit. That's the hardest question because it used to be cookie dough. Now it's gooey butter cake sometimes strawberry. Like salted Caramel right now I love thought you put buying that because I could tell you the brands and I like to tell myself I'm not an ice cream person but I think I tell myself that because I don't want to hate myself even more than I do because I always eat it. I'm like fuck I way too much ice cream. And you put the carton away. It feels like the simple optimism of have incense in icy and sweet and cranium mouth. It's like this is the time for that feeling. What's your flavor I was just thinking like peach you know what's an underrated flavor pralines and cream? Under all right, you know it's overrated rocky road I. Don't know you like rocky road I think it could be reinvented maybe the older like established brands. It's so predictable because when I was a kid that was like kind of a novel flavor remember Okay Rum Raisin Rome reasons highly underrated it can't be a fancy rum raisin. Like briars or lower quality from raisin taste good for whatever reason when it's not like a super premium brand raisins I of passion of mine. Are you also prune person no nor my cranberry person. Thank goodness. Are you oatmeal raisin cookie kind of person Oh? Yeah. I put raisins in everything. Analog toll. Tell me you dance on a long I don't because they take too long to make. All right. All right. No I really love to Cook David I'm not great but I really love it and I have odd amount of kitchen equipment because it's all our family seems to give each other for any major holiday or birthday just more cooking equipment well, I gotTa send you are Salts and spices had love that what are your thoughts on just plain old vanilla I'm down with that okay. So my mom collects a fine food items from all over the world. Like, I was just thinking vanilla beans that she gets from Tahiti and she has very specific opinions on lake, cinnamon from Thailand or Vietnam, and cinnamon from Outta gas car. There's a whole thing and I can't speak for her but she was very, very, very prepared for this quarantine for her to explore the world through cooking finally using all the shit that's inner covered. Especially make our own ice cream. Oh Yeah. What Oh yeah. I have never made ice cream at home in my life zero. Well, you don't even cook for your fucking wife. All the time for the regular. Way Fred Okay. What's your favorite curse word I swear to much. Here's true fact the New Yorker ran a profile of mean when I was younger and I broke the record for curse words I, said Fuck. Fifty. Six Times. That's my claim to fame I. Wish I was diagnosed with Terrell Syndrome because it would explain why. I probably say, fuck. Past tense. Present tense. Probably the word I say the most every day. Okay. What was your first boss like or maybe you early influencers but think the best boss that I had. Let's toxin toxins shit. David. Well, let's you want to share that. My first boss was my dad he was a horrible horrible. Like my mom again, he passer recently she said he was a horrible father husband yet I. Loved Him that was. The pets eulogy ever. I guess in terms of cooking the best boss I had would be probably market Kinara Jonathan Bannon entirety MMA craft the first real restaurant that I worked at Ed worked at a few others. But that was like the first real real deal restaurant Tom Click is restaurant Marco. Jonathan October Nawab and. They were great because they treated me like shit like I'm a little sibling to them. It was their way of teaching me the ropes and really pushing me. To be better and making my job incredibly difficult with workload like every day for example, on that Garner J. Station that we're talking about earlier, every day I had to make new salad dressing. I could never repeat one salad dressing think about that I think I probably had come with three hundred different salad dressings in my time there that doesn't sound like much eight sounds like a lot. It's a fucking pain in the ASS, and that's the kind of stuff that they would do just like noodle me. That was so beneficial for my development as shaft because it caused me to try to learn how to make something out of nothing to use my imagination and to learn that if I made a buttermilk ranch dressing, that could turn into a blue cheese dressing the next day right and then just constantly iterating in iterating and I I'm so grateful for that opportunity they gave me. You. Write about the idea of psychological trauma, which is something that in the entertainment world, it was an old mentality of yelling you know it was just like barking yelling drilling know directors that are like that. That's a calling card, right? Totally I'm known to be that version of that show. Dave Chang is a yeller and he'll scream and curse. I've been honest and open about that sense. You know the first restaurant and I'm not that kind of person in real life. That's just unfortunately what cooking has brought out of me and I've tried to get better at that over the years. But that kind of rage is something identified early on because that has never been part of who I am as a person I'm a relatively. Passive aggressive pothead and it's weird to be so agro about something again I would ask why do I fucking care about this so much. It doesn't make any fucking sense and I've really worked out why I get angry that took a long time to identify connecting all all the way childhood and then developing cognitive behavioral therapy to sort of temper that. So now I still slip up. But I look at my anger life and addiction. It is very similar to right and when I get angry I feel like I fell off the wagon I I feel like shit. So I really admire that it's something that you recognize worked with director who is really fucking tough and it felt irrational like ninety percent of the time and I remember fellow actor after the shoot was. Over said to him. You know you're kind of addict through and I was a witness to this in the flooring part was how shocked you as this whole time I thought that it was all very intentional and calculated his anger and rage. So we all took quite personally but the fact that he wasn't even aware was like, oh, fuck this might be like even worse than we saw. Something a chef told me early on because the first restaurant and most of our restaurants are open kitchens and it's like theater. You can see everything and hear everything, and after me just having a normal day, probably be an asshole a very respectable chef came in and pull me outside and said Hey I want to give you advice the reason you yell because you're not a good chef and you insecure and I was like fuck you and I've thought about that chef moments like ten plus years, and the reality is that chef was one hundred percent right completely insecure and if I was a better chef, if I knew what I was doing if I had a cohesive plan. That's the problem. Every day is about putting out fires metaphorically and literally. But if I was better at being a boss, there is no need to you. I would be thoughtful enough, empathetic, enough, and plan too far ahead enough to have seen all of these problems ahead of time and to communicate individually to each person what I expected out of them, and if I was so good I would have told them watch out for this watch out for this over here this might happen. So prepare for here here and here but I never did that it was always a reactionary and that was a pride swallowing. Know Moment. I how amazing that you? Not many people can do the? Yes. Okay. What was your first love like? My first love. was probably not reciprocated. Never know she'd totally destroyed me. That's what happens. David I paid a boy twenty five cents every day Ryan Giovane in third grade so that he would like me. You really fucked up. He was the fastest runner David nobody could run faster than Ryan well, riot could have in your life you chose to run fast fuck that up. Thanks David Yeah No. My first one really crushed me and it's the kind of one that came into my life. Her she knew she could fuck with me and she fucked me again and of course, like a dummy. Leader you looking your twenties this was like early in my life and then later in my early twenties. Yeah. Yeah. If they sometimes come back to haunt you those things. But you know we have to honor the scars. My making lemonade out of any heartbreak is that I feel like you're not a complete person. You've had your heart you know scraped you have to unfortunately, which is why I always get weirded out when I know people on friends with people that only dated one person. You know that's not gonNa work so well, yeah parents met at age. I don't know nineteen they got married. They have my brother and myself my brother and I have both been divorced twice. You would think that like we would have been like primed for like stable marriages from the GECKO. Okay what qualities do you look for in a friend? It's pretty simple. I think honesty loyalty which always makes me weird to save because fucking trump. Loyalty is probably tied with honesty I. Want my friends to stick with me in the bad times as much as they will in the good times and also to be loyal enough an awesome to tell me what I don't WanNa hear, and then you get out the knife. Like fuck you. I'm never talking to you again. As they do. On what occasion do you Li-? I'll be honest I. don't really like I really don't, and it's not because being altruistic is just fucking easier holy why you just have to keep track of Shit I am not lying because I'm fucking lazy. Maker's mark. We believe when you've made it through all this. Done with this. There's nothing that compares to a little bit. So keep the music going grab a glass of maker's mark and seriously enjoy your downtime with nothing but this. Unqualified is supported by net flicks presenting unsolved mysteries. The original unsolved mysteries was the first TV series to ask viewers for help solving actual mysteries and the concept really worked viewers helped solve over two hundred sixty cases. I think they may need to consider a new title at some point the original series ran for over thirty years and I think I saw every episode at least once I did not want to miss any clues. Now in the new netflixing serious, you can press pause to study a photo or a document, and of course, you can rewind and revisit case details. At any time so watch carefully do your part to help solve this new batch of unsolved cases, visit unsolved dot com, and submit your observations and tips. Unsolved mysteries has staffed up to ensure that leads are quickly passed to the appropriate parties. This new chapter of unsolved mysteries explores more unexplained disappearances, tragic events, and bizarre occurrences, and I have to recommend watching someone. So you can sleep better, it can get intense if you haven't watched the first six episodes, check them out now to prepare yourself for volume two. Then watch the next six episodes of unsolved mysteries only on net flicks. what's a trait you dislike and others Man, there's so many. I think lack of integrity to be able to believe something but not be able to honest about it. Right basically the entire Republican Party. Star. David on your podcast you talk a lot about movies. What is your favorite rainy? Day. Movie. Can I say Yogi Bear Three D.. Wants Yogi bear through. Most. Of the movie and I really think I had five lines olive which started with a Yogi of varying emotional degree listen that's art that's minimal art. You did it. It's paying mortgage David. What is your greatest extravagance? I love caviar when it comes to food snobbery I am the biggest fuck and food snob you've ever met. But like I do like chicken fingers or anything like that. But what I like to do is a chicken finger in a big tub of expensive caviar. and. I'm not talking about the paddle fish rose I'm about the stuff that is illegal to get. That is just unbelievable. You can't get it here in America but like the stuff from Russia is outrageous, it's so Like why would you want to check with vodka and then you do and you're like Oh my God. So David remember when you were going to send the spices in assaults and stuff your your. Pack a little bit of illegal caviar and their. Samphan. Promoting. I've just when I've been in Europe I've tasted it. There's great. Caviar made domestically in Idaho. Idaho has like I joked tesla of caviar because you're talking about these massive massive fish that are like a thousand pounds that swim up from the ocean and they live in this estuary is just unbelievable and I can't believe we're talking about caviar so I'll shut up because I could talk about it all day. So it's great. It's really really unbelievable. There's all kinds of caviar. Technically, it's not like from a sturgeon it's not really caviar but even like salmon roe central's delicious, I? Think there's always that challenge in. This is a very simplistic way to put it when you eat something that challenges your Palette and then makes you feel a bit alive. I feel like the first time as a kid or whenever as an adult you have a rottweiler Easter or sea urchin or caviar the flavor expectation can be off putting because it feels foreign and then it becomes something that inexplicably crave caviar is not something that I think kids would like to eat. It's fishy it's salty. It's got a weird texture and it tastes like something that you're not supposed to like and maybe that's why I like it so much you know. What haven't you taken the time to learn about I'm so bad at languages and even when I had to take the time in school I cheated. So I, don't know ship and my career now is worse than my sons I say the same thing and I don't think my brain can absorb anything more in life in general. I feel like such a done about my language skill that everything call English English anymore I just call it American. Is there a moment in your career that you're most proud of I'll be honest I was really proud of the team in Sydney professionally when they were ranked best restaurant in Australia and had nothing to do with it. The more I try to make something better these days the more I fuck it up so just give it To run and they're going to way better than I do it. How did you meet your wife? I think the thing I hate the most in life or nightclubs fucking hate nightclubs with the white hot heat. The only way they'd be even remotely fun if you on drugs I, hate them so much and the irony is again, I met my wife in a nightclub. That's the craziest story when I told my friends like you fucking hate nightclubs and long story short. I. Got a call from my friend. He said Hey, we're going to meet a bunch of girls. Club. Do you want to go and I'm like? No but I'll go because there's girls that you know that are there and I went I stayed for five minutes once I heard the beat of the shitty music like I get hit the Fuck Outta here but I noticed this really attractive girl sitting across or standing in the crowd and that's all I needed I'd even introduced myself I. Mean we sort of Madden the next day she held a barbecue. I showed up with my friend that invited me to the club day were cooking food for all these guests and they had no idea what they were doing like just burgers and hotdogs but they were going down there in the weeds and I was like Oh this is a perfect opportunity to show my superhuman skills. And I made food for like seventy five people and was helping them clean up and is now like nine ish or so and people were leaving. It was a Sunday night and there how really hungry and I said Oh You know what's interesting I have a restaurant, just two blocks down the street. Why don't we go over there read? And that's how it started. Flat. You told us. The you did not Cook I. Didn't Cook for them. Babar's hotdogs is technically there's seventy five people. That's good. Seduction material there. The first time it actually came out the way it should have come out. So I was thankful and. Is Amazing to put up with me so. In one word how would you like to be remembered your dammit what's up with these hard questions? Shit. Cranky curmudgeon that's it. That might be accurate. Yeah. I can grow into being more now I don't know I mean. Kind. Loving can. That's bullshit. Well. Is. A very accurate were for who I am right now. I think you're fucking amazing and I cannot thank you enough Shouli. It means so much appreciate it anything I can ever do for you me know and real pleasure to speak to you and hopefully we get to do this again soon love that Wonderful. Rest of your day, i. Be Qualified advice segment is supported by better help I. Don't know anyone who's life isn't stressful, but sometimes everything can just get a little overwhelming and it doesn't have to be that way. We could all use help when we're feeling down but may not know how or where to ask for it. Better. Help counselors have expertise in a broad range of areas including anxiety, depression, relationship conflicts, self esteem, and more connect. Privately. With your licensed counselor by texting phone or video calls and get held on your own time at your own pace and added an affordable rate. Everything you share is confidential and know that you're not alone over a million people have taken charge of their mental health with the support of better help counselors. In fact so many people have been using better help. They are currently recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. So start by filling out a questionnaire to help assess your specific needs and get matched with your counselor and under forty eight hours. Better. Help is an affordable option in our listeners get ten percent off your first month with the Discount Code Farris. So get started today at better H E L P dot com slash f a R. I s talk to a therapist online and get. Hey Everyone April buyer is back on the show day. April is a dating coach and matchmaker who spent the past twenty years dedicated to helping people find and build lasting relationships. You can find more information about April and our other experts at unqualified dot. com. Hey April welcome back. Thank you again for doing this. Thank you. It's been awesome. Let's call Mitch. Hello. Hi Ana how are you? I'm great. How are you doing well? I'm here with April buyer and she is amazing. Nice to meet you. Thank you for writing in. mentioned. Thank you for talking with us. You tell us what's going on. Yeah. Of course you like recently I've just been being like one of those people who will be forever alone in some days. I'm okay with that. But then other times just kinda scares the hell out of me but a quick rundown I came out halfway through college back in like two thousand thirteen. I maybe had like two or three flings in college but I always knew I wanted to work in the entertainment industry and moved to Los Angeles. So I didn't really pursue those relationships because I didn't want to and Having to choose between a guy in my career. So after I graduated college moved to Los Angeles in January two, thousand, fifteen, I spent the first year to like really focusing on my career and getting to know the city and the people, and it wasn't until about two thousand seventeen when I really started putting myself out there and going on dates etcetera past few years there had been multiple guys I. I really liked and we got along great. We had good conversations leading up to the dates and I felt like the dates went. Well, we had a lot in common. You know music we liked and movies we loved and places we wanted to travel and go see and stuff but. Most of them ended up just ghosting me which really sucks because you know when you don't get a reason as to why that Kinda hurts. But then there were a couple other dates that went even better like there was a bunch of dates that we went on over the course of like six to eight weeks but for those guys I. was realizing that I was the one who was texting them. I. Meant engaging in the plans and asking them to dinner asking them to go hiking or to the movies and I would always ask myself why I was the only one putting in the effort. So I decided stop texting them just to see if they would reach out to me and make the plans and he never did then I was like, okay well, now I'm I, the one goes in or the day still ghosting me because they're not putting in the effort that I was and it clearly kinda seems like they don't want to continue dating. So I've just been stuck in this Rut recently because you know one, we're gonNA pandemic and it's harder to meet people too. I'm not like really the biggest unsocial dating sites. And I know at the end of the day, we shouldn't really compare ourselves to like other peoples timelines but. For Someone Being Twenty Eight, I turned twenty nine and a couple of months you know never having been in a relationship or in love it's really hard not to think about that. And I love Los Angeles my career is going well but. The older I get the more I'm torn between moving back to the mid West or staying in La, and you know I'm wondering if you think that a city and the people who live can really live up to like the toxic stereotype that people make it out to be Mitt, you have called. The right and wrong people. I'll take the right one. I. April you're up. April. Okay so you're twenty eight your soon to be twenty, nine can't you said you've never been in love why do you think you've never been in love I just don't feel like I have like I don't feel like I've really experienced true love wanting to be with a person spend time with them all the time it'd be with them for like the rest of my life or possibly you know get married with someone I haven't really met that right person and I feel like I might not meet them in the city. Hey Mitch. What is the significance of coming out in college? Why did you specify that? Did it feel late to you kind of because I you know back in like early chosen ten to eleven especially in the Midwest being gay wasn't very accepted there. So definitely took the gay community longer I feel like to come out and specific area like the US but. Then I look back now and I see all these college kids go to the same college I did and they you know they were coming out at early ages and like early college or even like high schools, they're able to be more open with themselves and experience the dating pull that I really wasn't able to because I didn't come out to later on. Do you feel like Mitch now especially, like living in Los Angeles do you feel much more comfortable with all of that? Absolutely. Yeah. Another reason why I moved out because it was so gay friendly and very liberal. KEEP IN MIND MITCH THAT LA is made up of people from all over you know my husband's from the Midwest and that's why he was my favorite choice. You know I'm a California. Girl I meet a guy from the Midwest. True Blue. Straightforward and potatoes kind of guy and he got my heart because he was so different from everybody else around me. So please know that that's actually a value that you're from. All I find my attracted more to guys from the Midwest ones I really did like out here in la they they were from like Ohio Minnesota or Michigan like myself. Yeah. Where is the expectation? Where do you get that from that? You Know Twenty, eight, twenty, nine that you should have all of this lockdown and that you should have had love beyond your way who told you or where did you read that you should have this buttoned up by now it's not specifically that it's more I guess. It could be like just personal fear of mine of. You know. Just knowing that I feel like the majority of people like were able to date in high school and college and kind of like figure out like who they wanted out of a partner like what certain characteristics they're attracted to, and I feel like that's scary for someone like me because I've never had that and it's scary to jump into a relationship now because. You know most of my friends are saying it's kind of like a good thing that I've waited. So long to date in my mind might not be because they you know the person I'm actually meant to be with my come next but then in the back of my mind, I might be like why should still test the waters and data around and kind of like really see like. Who I WANNA be with. So you're actually kind of creating a scenario that hasn't yet happened I. Guys that like my own self fulfilling. Well just remember you're the guy that chose career in education over relationships. So even though some of those people around you were, you know figuring it out and they knew what they wanted and what they didn't want and they were dating somebody you were intentionally not choosing somebody because you have this vision this dream you wanted to go to college you want to. Focus on your work, you wanted to get L. A.. So it's not that you couldn't. It's just you chose not to but that was back down because now recently I have banned I really have been trying to like put myself out there and go on dates. Okay. So for how long do you think just since you been quote unquote putting yourself out there. For five years okay. If I were to tell you that most of these lasting relationships are happening with people in their thirties. You believe me the fact that you've been spending your time developing your life and your foundation and who you are, and then you meet somebody makes you that much more of a trustworthy partner later on and I don't think you need to learn more fear meeting somebody. And then backing out of it because you feel like you're gonNa need more experience because we don't know what that other person's GonNa bring to the table either so don't imagine they're part yet just imagine hey, I'm almost twenty nine I've been developing my car and my life, and when I meet a guy I'm a better partner because I know who the heck I am. And I don't have all of these failed romances from the past that have kind of. Put a dig in my door. Yeah. So to speak April, how do you sort out the people that like Mitch want relationship as opposed to people that are treating it kind of like a game? How does that language get broken down? So it's like no, no I don't want to be swiping for the next four years. I actually would like to have a companion in my life that I love video game. Yeah Right. It's time passer and a time suck. So first things first is that. To get over that hump of not feeling rejected as this swipe is exactly equal to if you're in a bar and you walked in the door and somebody looked up and met your eyes and you met there, that's it. It is no acknowledgement of I like you I'm interested I'm ready available. It's literally just the look up. So that's number one number two on your profile speak to more of who you are and what you want and not what you don't want. And unfortunately, with some of the gay dating APPs, is that it so sex forward and I'm sure Mitch, you've seen this too. It's like, Hey, a midwest guy I'm educated. I WANNA relationship I. Don't want to be in this kind of environment where everybody's looking for a hookup but I know plenty of guys that have called me and said, listen I can't be in the gay bars on a wannabe and I wanna be on these dating sites how do I find somebody who is as steady and ready? I think it's really about your choice in imagery to make sure that your images literally reflect back. Like who you are that you don't play their game, you play your game that you state exactly who you are and what you're looking for. You don't have to say I'm not interested in the swipe, and then finally it's about being super open minded to connection and not worrying about your end goal. So your need for relationship can't be your driver especially now, Mitch, it just has to be, Hey, I'm interested in connecting with people that are like minded share my thoughts share values, and that's it like don't worry about attraction or anything else. I feel like I. Definitely am I mean going back to honest. About like weeding out like the inconsiderate people I totally agree with that and I also agree with like. Knowing how dating sites can just be very vapid and shallow like I don't like to be on them right like I said, you cannot change the way people are behaving. But it's important that right now because you're so young match, you have to know how much time you have in front of you. You're so young you have so many opportunities and life gets better. The closer you get to thirty especially, I believe with gay relationships you're going to start to see this. Thank God. You're having your birth things because the twenties for anybody is really difficult but think about it like when we're in our twenties everybody's Horny and like having like whether you're straight, it doesn't matter I remember being more jealous and driven by more insecure and very. Be Hard for me to be more self absorbed than I am now but. It might lowercase four shirt. She's right. It's comparison time. It's a time fraught with a lot of insecurity and people are just kind of they're doing their best right. They're not out there to try to hurt anybody just figuring their shit out really and the comparison is huge I. Think what's most important is that we talk about the effort you're putting out because the APP fatigue is real. And usually people that feel the fatigue has nothing to do with how long they've been on the APPS but how they've been using the APPS are you on it like checking I know you've been doing in the past but when you were on them, were you checking it all the time and like you said earlier, you were the one making the dates. You were the one planning the dinners making the phone calls, most of the guys that I was going on dates with was either through friends or it was through like meeting them unlike instagram or. Maybe, twitter it really wasn't through like tender bumble or any of those apps I did how I came out to La and like two thousand, fifteen, hundred sixteen but it was just exhausting just the constant like swipe being in the shadow conversations and it just felt like it was an authentic meeting people in person or through friends which I know does kind of weed out the more inconsiderate people who maybe wouldn't just straight up like ghost you because all your communication was on like an APP. But it was like meeting through like a person and warlike personable. Yeah Yeah. I think that for you, it's standing where your effort is. Do you mind me asking what you? I'm a publicist? Own. My own PR agency Miss. Okay I knew it. Was Going to ask you Mitch if you're an entrepreneur. So when you own your own business, you're used to handling everything you're responsible for others you're working for people. You know if you don't show up, it doesn't get done right? Right right okay. So that's manifesting in your personal life, and if you're not careful, you can get so exhausted from all of the work and the effort I believe. That you need to get into this idea of receiving. And trusting that if you don't get it done that somebody else will bring around the wagons and offer that phone call or offer that plant and until they do. You're going to sit back chill out and rest. I'm not saying be passive but this is how you weed people out. You did it before but she didn't. As a way of like. They're not making it. So I'm I'm just done as opposed to starting and really paying attention to I. Put out a call. Now let's see what I get back. So April, you're saying his drive in his business there's a direct correlation with is dating approach. Yes. I would imagine I'm going to take a wild guess that you were raised to be successful to be educated your diligent your heart on yourself. You're a perfectionist thoughtful person you're driven like am I She's good right. They know where she's so good it's intimidating. It's spilling over into your dating life Mitch that makes sense I mean it does make sense if I'm like, you know a go-getter harder like trying to really you know make my business work to make my client's happy and you know do all that, and then it kind of does the low version to. Try and find a guy like making the moves and doing that. But like. Sometimes, I WANNA be taken care of two or I want someone to lake you know pull the rain the dock in might take charge like myself or like the relationship you know just so I don't have to have complete control all the time because I do completely in my professional life I gotta you're talking to to people who are equally as driven in our perspective players. Off these. Days. On his back. So you know it's like you're checking boxes and because of that sort of we call it the driver mentality, you're the driver of all things and what happens is when you're the driver, you end up getting very hurt and very frustrated by people because you're like if I don't pick up the ball, no one else will, but it goes with our. Friendships that goes with our partnerships. It goes with people we work with you have to do what you do, but then also have this awareness of okay. Is everybody else around here carrying their weight to and do I trust that I don't do it that I'll still receive that phone call it's trust within yourself. Not of these guys it's trust of like. I showed up I was real. I was myself. It was a great date if he doesn't call again. Next, you know because you can't manufacture these relationships was what you do is you end up bringing in lazy people into your life and then you're really driving the entire thing the entire way through and it doesn't make for a happy life because I'm hearing you and I'm thinking Gosh you know twenty, eight, twenty, nine, year smart your entrepreneurial you're successful you gotta have more patience right now it feels like it's been four to five years. But. If we really broken apart and we had more time a Betcha you been really at this perfect stage of like that next level readiness for maybe the last year and you might actually even only be entering into it now because we're truly truly ready for partnership and we've Kinda, quieted that voice we're in our receiving space that person shows up and you don't need thousands you really don't. And the dating. APPS give us this illusion that we have to have deal flow in order to be successful. So for those of us that dated before dating, APPs we didn't have that I didn't get to get in front of thousands of people a month to find my partner was lucky. If I saw one guy a month that I liked. But April, we've also overly romanticized for better for worse or pass relationships. Exactly exactly. But we knew less it's kind of like renew less. It's like the older you get like you refine your palate right? So when you're palate has refined. Emotionally. You meet less people. You consume less stuff and as honest. So beautifully, put it the romanticizing past more people got to be in our circle when we were younger because we didn't really know what we were doing yet. So as you get older and as you refine your Palette, you become more selective and when you're more selective less people are around that's part of the plan in its design that way so that when you do see the right friends, partners and lovers that they're super easy to spot, there's just not that many because you know your age match being an entrepreneur that also puts you in your own category. So you need somebody who's hardworking you need somebody who's curious. You need somebody who is patient you need somebody who is into partnership skills. Yeah. Not a taker because if somebody is looking to have their whole life planned for them, you're going to be exhausted. You have staff you have clients, all kinds of people you have to worry about all day long, and if you're anything like me, you worry about your clients Friday night at midnight or Saturday at three in the morning, right we don't have to actually be at work to be concerned about our clients. So for you, it's really putting it out there that you're here now and saying that you're this midwest transplant because the idea of you going back when you already told us that you love La and that your life is here careers here it's not GonNa Change Much. Of anything because I think that by being here as long as you have, you may go back and may not find your people anymore you've grown exponentially. So give it time, April. That is a great point. Interesting. You know we always look back. It's kind of like how we're all looking at this pandemic right? We're all saying I want my life back I want things the way they were and all that does is upset us and frustrate us and really just make us depressed. This is what it is right now how can we make the most of it? So I say you need at least least another twenty four months maybe thirty six here where you don't even think about going home. and. You say, I am in it to win it. And I'm not on any kind of time clock and the person I need to be with since I don't need many 'cause I'm busy anyway is out there and I'm going to be very selective I'm going to say who I am what I'm looking for and I'm going to engage with people as long as they're smart and all traits I talked about curious smart, he's gotTa. Be Partnership skills meaning he's calling you as much as you're calling him. He's making plans with you as much as you're making plans with him and by the way that has nothing very rarely do with interest level. That's just who those people are because you've done it right? Mitch even when you weren't sure that this guy was for you still picking up the phone making plans. Yeah. Yeah when you anti up and you grow your career, a lot of like busy professional women feel this way to is that the higher they climb the less they find romance it's harder right. The stakes are higher. Things are different maybe if Didn't have your own company, it would be different the circle would be bigger. Keep in mind that there's still so much time I just think you're just really hard on yourself. I might be I. Think my generation I mean I feel like we feel older than we actually are, and we do need to take into perspective and maybe when in my thirty that's when all it really truly find someone well, by the way, don't think in terms of you know. then. Because that's GONNA. Make you sad too because we want you to have love and attention and affection adoration now. So just think about it in terms of I'm not going to settle. But I'M GONNA keep my eye open. My mind opened my heart open I'm just going to be out there connecting and along the way there's going to be one person that I just want to spend more time with. If, you frame it that way it won't be like, Oh, I'm going to be in this dearth of activity until it happens because that's no fun right you want to be dating you WANNA be connecting with people but just taking your eye off the prize off the target doesn't mean I would say just because you're letting go of your grip doesn't mean you're. Letting go of your dream, it's that grip that makes us angry and frustrated and not cool to date and it's the open mindedness that says, Hey, I'm looking and I'm ready to receive it but I have no idea when it's going to happen that's what makes an easier person to know and it makes your dating life more effortless and less stress. Thank you. I know this doesn't sound like practical tangible advice because you know the practical tangible advice is actually very easy to give everything starts with mindset everything April. I'm so convinced you are such a genius relieved love your approach of curiosity and confidence and self not self reflection. It's not self determination but I guess a sense of one's own self worth before you date well. If. You think about it everybody did that kind of self check you know we all look at our cars before we go on long road trips but nobody looks under the hood of their own self before they start dating and then they get kind of pummeled the wind like if I were let's say I were single right now and I was back quote unquote there. I would have knowledge of what am I core values? What is it that I want? What am I deal breakers? What do I have to offer? What's my romantic value and I would keep my list really tight and really simple and I would enjoy I wouldn't be thinking of when am I gonNa meet them the people that take their eyes off the target in my opinion and all of my clients who've actually gotten engaged married through me. They were the ones that came in with hope. Without the grip they were the ones that came in and said, you know what I know who I am and I know what I'm looking for. But let's just try some stuff on. It's the people that came in with this mission of we gotta get it done yesterday I have literally on my face with like I was not successful with those guys. So it is attitude. Yeah. But does this pressure that Mitch's feeling with timeline? I think we all feel and it's hard to dismiss I. think it's seventeen I have my. Line I was going to get married at twenty seven have child potentially if I wanted one thirty of course things don't work. I'm I've been divorced twice. I had a child at thirty five and I'm not sure. I. Body can handle the journey again new I. Guess. I'm stating the obvious things don't go according to the plan. Yeah. Do you feel that Mitch? Do you feel that pressure? Definitely I feel like my generation definitely feels that pressure yeah I think I. Yeah. I think you're right I think that's something to unpack because you said it earlier we all feel older than what we really are. So really just Mitch it's about getting perspective back. Perspective is everything you know you only need one and the further along you are and the further along somebody else's the better. You can D- rescue future because remember you bring somebody into your life, your heart, your bed, your business, your tangling with somebody. So you better know what you're doing. Right? You better know who you are and so the older you get the closer you are to finding the relationship. That's GONNA stick. Because you know who you are, and that person hopefully knows who they are and when you do, it's easier to see like, okay. Wait a minute like this guy is not the right. Person for me to hang out with and spend any time with, and that's that selective thing we've been talking about not being picky. But being really selective just ignore the pressure it's just marketing. Advertising and Marketing Hate Mitch. Did we help view definitely opened my eyes to like some new perspectives? I really didn't think too. You know call myself out on I got. So. Yeah. I think I'll still take it easy. Take it slow and not try to think that. I need to compare myself to anyone else and everyone's passed different and you know just continue to. Try to talk with guys and make plans, and if they don't work out and don't get too hard on myself because you know we're all going through different things at the moment and. It doesn't mean they were malicious or you know volatile against me directly they could be going through their own thing. One hundred percent hopefully eventually in the next couple of years I might find someone and. If not maybe I'll just take a little. European vacation and there might find someone there. You never know okay great. Yeah. The cool thing is is that it happens when you least expect you know that's the best part of all. But Mitch I loved that you're looking because for me companionship is so crucial. I just appreciate your sense of that because I think that's something that we very much have in common and like millions of other people. So thank you Mitch so much. Thank you guys so much. Maybe, there's the fellow and like Sam France maybe there's somebody in. Need. It's listening listening. Yeah somebody listening, and we get together and get a need to get married and your ordained Oh my God. Oh my Gosh I WANNA com. April you're walking down the aisle. I'll be there. They can't thank you enough of love talking to you and thank you for talking to us. Thanks Mary on thing. To. Have a wonderful day. Welcome. To bye-bye. Thanks again, thanks on such a pleasure.