End of Life


Hello there we're talking about end of life with the lovely Max on this episode so I would like to warn you that this podcast contains content which might be upsetting for some listeners. To be honest I struggle to keep it myself during the recording and if you are affected by anything you hear of fantastic McMillan support line staff can help give out the number at the end of the podcast or you can find it on our website. Mcmillan dot org dot UK forward slash. Talking Cancer Okay. Let's get started. Hello I'm Annabi and welcome to talking cancer a podcast from millen where I'll be meeting real people to have honest conversations about living with cancer in this episode we're talking cancer with Max Sitting Rhonda. I'm hostile bed. Coventry are then one of the star to cry immediately. Do the same thing that those. I'm sorry and it straight away. I think there's no it's gonna be rubbish is so we'll cry together just over a year ago. Matt lost his mom Nand Breast Sarcoma Cancer. She'd successfully overcome it two years before a Max was initially optimistic. We've done once we can do it again. But I didn't actually last too long because I'm just having some trouble breathing and your database told it's it's too late on this time. Nothing's GonNa work. Max Talks about going. Through a period of pre grieving mourning the loss of a loved one before they pass away but it was a period where they could all talk and plan as a family. I suppose lucky in a way that we could on mum's funeral with her. We don't need you like five or ten minutes at a time could get too much for all of us but it was so nice that we knew that the day when exactly how she wanted to go if you'll having to contemplate the end of someone's life perhaps your own then. I think you'll find Max's story very inspiring and later a lovely Mellon Professional. Dany will be here to talk about how to deal with the end of someone's life you need to be very aware of your feelings and know that it's okay to be sad and if you're struggling to pick up the pieces then there is lots of support out there women. Millan and we're talking cancer Max Welcome along. Thank you very much for coming. It's lovely to me e I'm I think we should start by you telling us about your lovely Nand. What was she like? She was full of life as she had bright pink care so everyone says her favorite phrases pink and fluffy so she says to everyone. Yeah so she loved drama say she ran a youth theatre she lived in Cypress. Yeah she was over in England for a couple of months. I think Coventry as where we're from originally and she was one of those like live action actors in Warwick Castle for free just for a few months. 'cause WAY WOW okay. So she was Mary. Queen of Scots. Saw someone lying if you look with bright pink hair yet very much? I get the impression that you quite close family. How many brothers and sisters do you have? Were you around each other the whole time? We already co still. It's my dad and my mom and my sister Ruby and me just as for so and we all live lived apart. My Mom and dad lived in verse. My sister lives in Coventry. At the time I lived down in Eastbourne we lived all over the place but we all met up at least once a month so it was really good. Yeah Okay Now. You got diagnosed not once but twice. Tell us about the first time. Initially it was just breast cancer and it was well while still in the army and I was just about to go to the Falklands to six months so yeah they came visit me down to Southampton as far I was at the time. And that yeah. They broke the news to us and devastating. But we didn't really get down. I I really face anything like this before. And we're really really positive family light if I came back from work or school or something and was negative or saying I didn't like him. Adobe like name enough of that home repulsive family so we were like that straight away. The first glance assay although it was sad for honesty about half an hour. We're like right. We're going to beat this. We're going to really do it. So didn't really feel that real. If you know what I mean. I'm Am for you at that point. Did they come to the radio armed with lots of information and answers to questions that you might have what the treatment might be and and that helps you kind of say. No no no okay. This is going to be okay. I think they did it but I think that. Sort of blind positively hadn't even ask I think it was a bit of a shock of. I didn't really go into much detail really. I was just outright. So how are we going to beat it? And and she did get better yes. It made a full recovery. I think it was nine months to a year she was. She was meant for a checkup and the doctors know they couldn't believe it. They're all. The team has gone started with breast cancer. But then she went ashore. Had OSTEO sarcoma cancer as well and yeah I think she had ten tumors at the time and they'd all gone which was crazy. We were so happy. So this leaves you as a family so shaken but resolute. I'm ready to carry-on And how old is is Nan. How hold is your mom at this point So when she beat the I would have been about fifty two and wish she would be affected by the treatment. What she did she seem to be a self looked with any sort of lasting symptoms. That made life different four. Join get she was. Yeah toad in ourselves sleeping all the time but afterwards no she was back to normal which was right and there was no reason for you to think that this was going to come back now. We didn't think so. Now it's you and I do have something in common because my mom died at sixty two with first time breast cancer and then the cancer came came back and I know exactly where I was when we had the news. It come back. How did the second bit of news come to you then so it? My mom was just had some back pain. She was complaining of back pain so she left it for a bunch of cancer. Say It doesn't say she like no don't need to get that checked and eventually she was is quite need to take some painkillers. And my dad I think then took her in hospital and then that's when they did some scans they found out it come back. Yes Sarcoma Cancer. The second time I mean that must have been so horrendously disappointing for your mom for you and just worked so hard. How was it? How was it for you all at that point being given that news the Yes for a second time? The cancer had come back. Initially it was the same as the first time we well go. We've done at once. We can do it again. Right didn't actually last too long because I'm shocked. She was having some trouble breathing and she had to go into the database. He told us it's too late on this time. Nothing nothing's GonNa work. We then had to stop this positively because as I said before it worked once we. It was sort of blind positive. We can do it that we actually couldn't this time emotionally coming to that conclusion especially if this is your mom especially come to that conclusion as a child must have been really hard. Yeah it was really tough are remember clear as they were sitting Rhonda hostile bed in Coventry. Then I think one me and my sister even my dad's one of the start to cry and immediately do the same thing lows Dr. Sorry and a straight way I think as my daddy said no and then he started crying. He's like no. Let's stop this now with is not strong to be to hold your emotional stiff upper lip or anything like that. That's just have a cry. Then he's GonNa be rubbish is there's no say in it's going to be good for. Let's just if you're GONNA cry cry. It's not apologize for it. Let's just say we will have to cry together For and then yeah she was in for about a day then and we were always just having these conversations talk in and so we don't have very long left until it was. It was widely nice. It was horrible but then it was nice to be that vulnerable with each other. We'll talk about your blog because you've you've written a blog it's it's amazing and and I'm sure has been a great help too. Many people have read it that bit that you are describing Which enabled you to have those really a great quality time with the remaining time that your mom had you describe as pre grieving. What what do you mean by that? Yes I think I don't know if I made up. Maybe I did. I think Max. Yes a weird thing to vote yes. I thought it was really strange because you knew we knew mom was going to die. We given three to six months and so we knew it was going to happen. So you're already kind of sad about that so you know you're GonNa Grieve. Once she eventually goes. Then you're already sat about assault preagreed and at the same time. It's a really really weird transition and I'm sure you were the same when you were in that stage and many people listening to wherever. It's so so strange because if you want to be normal in have the best last few months but at the same time your stupidly sad about it. I think thing is as well is the. It's such a an unfathomable idea that some of these going to die because I don't we don't know what that means. You don't know what life is going to be life when you know when the no here so difficult to pin that down and work out. Our isn't at this time. What did that enable you to do with your mom so we allowed us to have an actual great last few months and we saw so much of our friends and family who came to visit because we are so open with. What's going to happen? But then it's also really helpful for a lot of the actual grim stuffed organized the funeral and stuff like that and you use some of that time to plan. That didn't yes. Oh we we saw. I read somewhere on line and video camera up in the corner of the room. Totally about this is such a great idea. Honesty so happy I read and I said to anyone who's going through anything like this. Just do it. Because I'm not saying let's sit there like act in front of the Cameras. Usually on what you're doing the normal daily life. It was really good. 'cause you watch it back and you just see normal conversations and chats and I made I was really make an effort to get mom to talk about all the stuff like twenty years ago that we didn't really know about even really boring stuff like buying a house and stuff because my dad's memory is all full of oats guy talking and laughing and stuff like that also like that. Yeah they're really hard conversations. I suppose sort of lucky in a way that we could plan mum's funeral with her into so strange and because it's horrible compensate. We don't need you like five or ten minutes at a time because it would get too much for all of us especially in my mom but it was. It was sort nice that we knew that the day when exactly how she wanted to go which is weird. Nice feeling but Having a few if you have the capacity to during final months in a few the capacity to talk about you know dying well Then yes you should and and I think it's amazing that you manage to do that all this time. I'm sure you really should've hung down as a family And use each other is huge support. Did you get help support from anywhere else because emotionally for you even though you've got this framework now which is super helpful. I mean all this time you're still going to work still having to be Max as day-to-day maximum your responsibilities to your other half in your friends. How how did you manage to to cope through this time? So initially I was actually a look back and think I was quite stupid at the start of it so we are really close family And I had the best network around a wider family as well as all my aunties uncles cousins and everything who will live really close to our house and call them anyway. I had my girlfriend now. Wife I had loads of great friends and closes people my dad and my sister but we even open most of the time achy feeling bad personally with three of us didn't talk and since then we all spoke. We thought we had to be the strong one which is absolutely crazy because there's nothing strong about not talking about stuff. I'm so at the time I I didn't just I wanted to talk so I didn't know so. I ended up text in at the mental health. How I think it was mind. the I. I didn't feel comfortable enough to admit there was not much of a problem So yeah I didn't want to actually pick up the phone and speak to someone like that. Which now I think's crazy i. It's so important that it started off with just a text and then I won't mind chatting with them and it really helped me out sometimes. It's just having a bit of a Mon to hell and I wanted to play the victim of supposed because it is a horrible situation and it really helped then more recently actually a year on from that so yeah last year. I thought that's fine. Go in like talking more evening about it like yeah like doing a blog and stuff like that really helped me. But yeah then since then I've She went to GP. And you can register talk therapy. Which is really good. I I haven't. I've only just made that step because I'm fine most of the time but I sometimes we'll have a chat about so I booked myself in. We'll see how it goes. Yeah all I say to. Everyone is just taught someone fine. That's on whether it's text all CIA chat room online or call and someone need to because it takes you very unaware by it. Doesn't it because sometimes you have those days? Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah and they'll just be something that you go. Oh my God and that huge hole is there again And and that's that's time yeah due dates and time for yourself as well and because what will happen with meals drive in one hundred eighty miles home every week so I have at work? Nearly shift to work have drive up that day have two days off. Then at the day after the Lakers. Then drive day to that every week for two months or something and it got to the point where among could feel me being stressed and detention they even I was there absolutely knockabout. I wanted to be but she then feel it then she would like be down as well so That point I think my my partner was like we need to do something and so on one of those two days we actually drove over to Paris and we had a couple of days just for us and I I did feel really guilty at the start of it like driving over those. I should be back home now but you just need that time for yourself as well and it rubs off on your loved ones as well. So it's so important. Did you ever get to talk to him about how you felt? Nah I didn't I didn't I didn't either. You don't really want to get down. And she would have here Sunday. She'd be really up and Marie happy and almost I'll come for trying to normal stuff like I'm coffees and stuff like that glass of red wine with her. Sometimes she would just crying and be quite worried or and yes. I didn't really want to add another burden onto it sort of thing even though she probably would want to talk about really but you just feel like you don't want to burden them. What kind of things was she worried about? In that time she was really worried about is all being happy so as I said before a lot of it is a blur all around that time and the one thing I remember is I was out there. I think it was just me my sister as well as you just. Aren't we just watching? Taddeo FINISH TURNED Rhonda maximum. You'RE GONNA MARRY NINA. Aren't you ought to know mom? I haven't got a clue. Virtually any girlfriend at the minute. I'm not thinking about that. She's you're happy there. Aren't you know it's like yeah? I'm really happy. Interest rubies got. Tom Said rubies my sister and her boyfriend and they've got two kids together. She's got Tom. She's happy isn't she? And that's going to be arising. Yeah I should say. I'm happy now as I was really cute. But she's making just making sure kids are okay and he's GonNa be alright and how the wider circle of friends Reacting at this point. Do you make an effort to get people to see each other as well and with the knowledge that your mom's she is going to die at some point and you know now is the time to come and see how we choose something facebook. We'd we said bad words were. I'm sorry it had to post this. Everyone but cancers rid it's ugly head again but this time we haven't got long left a tool so if you want to It sounds horrible but if you WANNA come and say goodbye visa please do. And it was amazing. That was my sister had to keep a diary. I'm a a secretary literally idea so personal assistant. Say The people came from all over the place. So obviously we as we said. We grew up in Cyprus so we had loads of people who are still inside. I bet there's a lot of military they then flew all across the world after that people come from Yes I press Austrailia around the country. I'm just come visit which is really nice but yeah points out at the same time and all. This is leading up to the moment that the among Pasta. Way And yeah. I'm sure you quite a weird very strange moment. Where were you we with her? Where were you when the news came that she died So yeah I wasn't. Actually I was home on a day off an eye that this is really strange as well not day. I didn't have two days off neuro for some reason was I couldn't drive up and Coventry and my partner was going to go to work that day sales like I do today and it was. It was cold. It's February twenty seventh MOMS I. I thought it'd be nice month. So I was like mom would be like with a stint Bedouin. It happened but then I was about go. Get all my jump as I don't marry anymore. My Christmas jumpers going give them homeless people. I remember that because remember thinking the mom would do. And then my dad called me and said Would take hostile. We don't know what it is. I'm probably make up here now as I care less straight away then got another cool about halfway up having Australian. It was when it was awful snow as well very and twenty eighteen Yeah then of the news. Well let's drive in probably Stockton by didn't want to get there. So how'd you digest? That Max was. It was really really tough. I didn't I didn't I should've stopped. I did and I sat on our hands. Free car driven. It's not really much on the phone. I said I'll be there an hour. The border my eyes out feel at drive in crime is a muscle. Strain was driving past thing that was going to a break up or something. I just felt really numb the whole day. I got to the hospital and all my extended family ruin the waiting room. Then yes straight in so my mom before. I didn't think I'd want to go and see her. But it was the best thing ever done chills. Compared to what she'd been Laffy weeks she'd been struggling to breathe and stuff like that where she missed pushing on a different areas of our body and disorder can totally piece phones looking to sleep and not ill anymore. So I'm really glad I went in there actually. I'm glad you said that I think it's really important You know The the concept of seeing a dead body is terrifying. Let alone when it's somebody that you love so much And so a very brave thing to do but obviously hugely important for you. Yeah I I really did not think I'd want to go in but it was so it's just so peaceful don't they And one of my last. I liked that one of my last like memories. I can see. It's my eyes of my mom is looking healthy and peaceful empain and swollen with humas and things like that emotionally immediately afterwards for lots of people. You sorta go into automatic mode There are things to do. emotionally immediately afterwards. How how were you after that day when you said goodbye to your mom felt really numb? You didn't know what to do. Doritos macron's drive up to be honest But then yeah. We went home after an hour hospital. And then we will just sat around. We're like what to do now to the pop out pint. Just as three then my uncle and cousin joined then straightaway plan. And we'll I roy we'd already planned to euro. We'd fight funeral director. We'd go with Mama trays and a pink casket. Obviously pink really awesome. Yeah she we knew. We had a list of stuff. We're going to do and ask them. We just booked all yeah the euro. You do go into automatic. Just let's do this. Do this last disaster to distract yourself. Some people talk about some people talk about a sense of relief. Almost then feel guilty about that because you know the suffering anyway has has stopped. But there's a little bit of should I should I feel relieved? The do it doesn't that income for few days. Me As I said I've just I literally filled the few days of organized as much as we could And it didn't think in it'll add safer few days then once it did and you're right you do feel a bit relieved because you know. They're not struggling anymore. I've heard about this funeral and that You organized pretty much all yourselves military position. Yeah sounds like I mean it. Sounds like it couldn't have been a funeral for her. It was unbelievable Still Tear up things about how nice it was So yeah the crematorium place just outside Coventry and Yeah. The capacity was about one hundred people and and there was easily over. Two hundred people turned up so initially so we. Also you got there with the casket a bit whenever asked already arrived and all the seats and tied to food as a huge people outside we carried in mum and finally did and then we put her on the plinth Wherever it's called at my dad's outright. We're not Stein. Yeah and he was on Ronca in in And so everyone was really squeezed. And there's no one left outside people around us so like at the front where the stage is. Basically they were all around those people around the casket people all at the. Irs Is Really Nice. Yeah then we live streamed as well and it was watched by my dad knows. It was over two thousand people in Cyprus. Our with from two pubs showed it on the live screen that was packed full of people and my dad countered the countries that was something like twenty one. Twenty three twenty one to twenty five countries. June dental something crazy you spoke at the funeral didn't yes. Oh I did the eulogy you. My sister did a poem that she wrote herself. My Dad just sort of like hosted and like spoke a little bit. I must have been super difficult for you to stand up and and do the Eulogy. About your lovely mom. Yeah it was quite difficult and I held it together but I didn't. I didn't care if I didn't out like we said crying would not mind too. Br into usually saying let's do Hick. Is You need to to be honest and tear up if you need to. Yeah it was. It was quite hard but I'm so happy we did that together. Initially so the person holds is coming for the Alabama celebrant. Initially my mom was going to record that that was our plan. I would have been so strange but it would have been so. My mom says she would have been hello. Welcome TO MY FUNERAL. Doing really strange. And but she got a little bit quicker than we thought that we couldn't do it in the end. In retrospect you think she would have been really happy with her day. I think so. Yeah because it wasn't any there was no one else talking. It was just as three who taught and there was no so. We're not religious wrong being released. But we're just not so it wouldn't have been as if it was a religious service or anything like that and then if someone we didn't know it was speaking about mom wouldn't have been same. Say Yeah it can go on any better really what tends to happen. Then there is the for dies down. Everybody goes back to then normal lives which has changed significantly you. How was that when all the buzz had died down? Yeah that was really strange so I had about a week two weeks off. I'm from MOM dying to combat. I could have had a lot more work really good about it but after the first week I was like. It's not really want my doing. I'm just sitting around sleeping sodden. Which is fine but you live does move on and it has to move on and so I wanted to go back to work so I went back to work. Yeah within two weeks. I'm so strange because no one can win like random until your employees your staff at work no one because if they don't mention it in your head you think come on my mom's side you're asking me then if they do ask about you solve shutdown. Yeah I'm fine. Thank you thank you so they. They literally can't win. It's so strange and I went. Work in retail was an awful time to go back to work so it was mother's Day. Oh good grief is no I. I just wanted to get back for the K. Wasn't the best time to go about looking bucket. I think those are the things that she isn't it because for that first year as well you kind of a good. That's the first mother's Day that's the first Christmas. That's the first my birthday and all those firsts of really painful reminders I what. What words of advice do you have? The people who are listening who Are going through this or can expect this About moving on after the death of someone that you love would say always take time to remember them. So don't try and force it down if you feed inside one night right how like. Sometimes I actually make myself sometimes on there and I see a picture of mom when she was ill. Let's say I go. I WANNA remember much normal. Just watching videos or something like that. It's really important to you. You probably are going to want to be talking. You can be sad for probably the rest of your life at some like I described quotes on the other day which I think was weird analogy. But at the very start you on an emotional rollercoaster. You are there so many ups and downs. If you were going to a theme park it'd be the best ride their only ups and downs. But eventually you still going to have there's ups and downs but it's GonNa be a really boring. Rollercoaster is going to be so loud flat. Those are good times and eventually downs but it will be you get through it but I talked to everyone. And how has this affected you as a family? I think W- it's brought a lot closer together. We were close before but now with more will. We actually asked twice. Now there's just a what's up group. We've got off family We've got one just my dad my sister and I and and in that if one of his famous sides sometimes you can only talk. It'd be like tackle how you doing guys and they've got good. Emily how you actually doing. I'm feeling a bit sad today or whatever So we talk a lot more openly about probably yet mental health and stuff. Which I think's really good absolutely. Do you talk about your mom to each other. Yeah definitely a we do stuff that she does all the time so mummies to see trends at people. Do Kids do these days or wherever she do them. Wrong say stage for years ago when kids are teenagers. Who say like our that smells. And you've got your mom's smells. I'm used to do that to me. And my sister installation. What you like montage you still. That's still does that every Jew like you say something. I'm victorious that your MOM's tired so still. She's living on saw lily absolutely. Yes we have crooked enough. I'm going to cook a dinner. Cook an all star skipping and yes that she's back in the room immediately immediately which is really funny so the future for you. You're blogging podcasting. Yes why why? Don't you feel like you WanNa talk about this so much because I mean you know? It's unbelievably helpful Why is it important to you to to do this so I think I could have done something like this when I was going through it but honestly maybe Kinda selfish is is like my own therapy site I said on my I have a podcast recorded last week and I said guys if you want me to do it again or let me know your honest? Be Good if it's a one off great. It's quite good. Do you want to hear more? Let me said you're actually probably listening to my own personal therapy right now. My thing is if I just one person it's it makes me feel better about so if I say when I did the blogs in a few comments on that and it made a difference to someone. That's all I care about so yeah for me I suppose. Yeah Kinda Therapy Tho of helping someone who went through something that I did. It feels really nice. His mom and chased to TNT. Not Guys would love that couples launch on Wednesdays. We were paying on Mondays and Tuesdays and Thursdays and Fridays. And the weekend is at Max's lovely to speak to you. Thank you very much for being so honest with us. It's hugely appreciated. Thank you Bob Dany Fabulous McMillan. Professional is back with me. First of all Dina Max. What a what a story what do you make of how him and his family have dealt with it I mean so many practical tips in there from things that they've done that feel like their original that you could put different slot tone but absolutely amazing How how they dealt with as a family and again experiences very different for different individuals for different families. What are the most common questions that you get About end of life so I think A common question people often ask themselves And family members often debate is how long how long have I got left to live? When they know their time is limited and and that's very difficult because some people ask the question on perhaps they don't really want to know the answer and I think it's always very difficult to give a very specific time And I worked with Palliative care consultant. Who was very good at doing this? And she always used to double check that they actually wanted the answer but then she would say whether she thought they had weeks or months and she So she didn't say you have two weeks or you know she just say. I think it's going to be very few weeks. And I think that gives a good indication without being specific so people are taking the days off on the calendar and getting very upset anxious in those days as well. Max described very eloquently This pre grieving process that I completely related to Give some explanation of what that is. What what he meant by that. I mean he really articulated it. Really well Will you know you're going to lose someone but you don't know when and so you you start the grieving process in in essence and that's different for for everyone in terms of shock. Fear Anger acceptance. There's very good literature around the grieving process. And some people experience all of that some people only one of those things but in essence. It's about you coming to terms with the fact that you're gonNA lose your loved one owner on a practical level. I think because we've mentioned you know when you're in this huge emotional turmoil. Structure is is helpful. What if somebody's just received an end of life diagnosis? What sort of kicks in? How what what steps should people expect? on what would happen. Generally to kind of help them through that I think the most important thing. And that's why Max story is just so important is is being able to talk and I know they were a close family. And some people don't feel that they can talk to friends or family Up about it but understanding what what you want. If you're in the situation where you're facing end of life. When do you want to consider having no treatment? If you're still having treatment where where do you want to be? Who Do you want to support you? Support is out there and you can have those conversations with your gp or even your clinical team that you can have them. You can have them and you can actually undertake something called an advanced care plan where you can document those things so that all those people caring for you like the GP will understand what your wishes are and you can share that with family members. I mean obviously including family members in those conversations is really helpful to talking about including people in the conversations maxes story about how his family filmed conversations with his mom. And just you know they just put the camera on so they've got a lot of normal That they've that they've recorded as well stuff that they've they didn't even realize they were recording quite a unique approach but served as a great example. About how you might approach those final weeks or months I just. I thought that was such an amazing idea. I think one of the things when you're going to lose someone that feels really important. Most people is making memories So reflecting on past memories and often you know you talk about things that happened historically that you remember what Happy Times but also creating memories that you can keep hold off once The the person's no longer around and that's was such such a good idea and Unfortunately because often people don't talk about things openly an half those open discussions they lose that opportunity to make those choices make memories which does seem such a shame. If you've never been in the situation. Contemplating death is a huge psychological Minefield it's how do you? What what? What is your advice if you are? Really Johnnie worried about the physicality of it about the the you know the psychological effects about how you're dealing with it links back to your first question about what people expect There's lots of things of the things they sometimes ask is. What will it be like? What can I expect Named reality some some people Active and doing things right up until the last few days whereas other people are much weaker. I'm perhaps the last couple of weeks are very tired and and in bed and I think that they're very individual things will say based on what's causing you to So so what type of cancer you have. What type of treatment? You've had generally how you've coped through. That might be an indication an and actually if people worried about symptoms you can just talk through some of the common symptoms that that that people can have when they're approaching end of life and what you can do to actually alleviate those so people don't have to be in pain they don't have to feel sick and sometimes people get very worried about people eating and drinking yes And there's this need to try and feed their relative or the left one and make sure they they drink to keep them alive and in reality. It's a natural process. I'm people won't suffer through that. So if they're hungry and they want to enjoy something let them half it if they're not hungry I it doesn't matter We'LL IS IMPORTANT. Is that obviously? You keep their Their mouth comfortable and moist You know because obviously if they're not drinking their mouth will dry. It knows Final few days Max and his family planned His mom's funeral meticulously is quite an undertaking. It sounded like a A really special day. How would you recommend people approach funeral planning because it's not easy? It's not an actually doing. After the event is is can be quite traumatic. I mean I I think that's a fabulous example where they had time where they were able to talk and they were able to planets and actually there are lots of schemes. Now where you can do that while you're well and Y which feels much healthier And in a way Takes the burden of you know sort of how many families though taught tweet other about you know what would you do? It isn't and that would be a really good thing to do. You know if you've got the opportunity as a family and you've gone out. Only relative is to try and help those sorts of conversations but but people don't say you know. I think they are a good example of how they approached it. You can still do it. That way. even after somebody has died so think about the person and the essence of the person and what they would have wanted because in reality you probably know anyway. So I think there's lots of ways that you can approach and there's lots of websites out there that give advice I'm we will have on our website. Marie Curie have advice on their website. There's lots of places people can go to think about how you plan a funeral when you do it. Words of advice for people who have lost a loved one resuming their lives. It's a very strange period. After somebody has passed away the friends and family want is your advice in that period afterwards. How do you get back to any semblance of a normal life? I mean yes. Life does have to go on. But actually the the pain of losing someone can be quite physical as well as emotional And talking talking is a really important thing and if you can't talk amongst people that you care about you know talk to your gp about how you feel. Potentially I loved a maximum sample about texting. Mind and and looking online. If you can't kind of pick up the phone All of that applies are after the event. You need just to be very aware of your feelings and know that it's okay to be sad and if you're struggling to pick up the pieces and carry on without that person around then there is lots of support out there. I think I slept for a month. I was exhausted. I think those are you because you you don't realize how much you're coping And the the energy the emotional energy physical energy that that takes up. I slept for a month. It was. It was incredible. And it's okay to cry. When a particular song comes on the radio you know oil in a place you think. Oh they say would have loved to be here I. It's okay to cry. It's a normal reaction. It totally I used to go into. Mum used to perfume. And every time I go into like DEM's or more like that and I'd get a whiff of it for a long time. I just so and it does take you by surprise abated. And it's good to know that that's okay you know. I've still got the bottle of aftershave that my dad was using before he died and now and again I have and it just reminds me of him. It's just so nice. Oh Dany I could talk to you all day. Thank you so very much again and my thanks. Our thanks to Max for coming in to tell a story if you've been affected by the very sensitive topics we've discussed in this episode. Please contact on McMillan support line on. Oh Eight oh eight. Eight eight double zero w zero open seven days a week. Eight till eight next time. We're talking work and cancer with Helen. The night before I went in to have surgery my boss said to me. I think we'll get somebody else in. I ended up two days after my surgery between payroll from my hospital bed in hospital. They actually confiscate my laptop. I should think so. Subscribe if you'd like to hear that in every new episode whenever it's ready have you enjoying the series why not give it a rating or a review? It helps others on the podcast more easily. I'm a maybe talking. Cancer is cancer. Support podcast

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