Episode 1017 - Anna Konkle & Maya Erskine
Hey, folks, it's me Mark. I'm going to do this before we start the show just for people who still don't know where I'm playing or might wanna come see me. These are the shows that are not sold out for my upcoming tour. I'll be at helium comedy club in Saint Louis June thirteenth through the fifteenth. I'll be at good night's comedy club in Raleigh, North Carolina. August I threw off. This third revolution hall in Portland. August ninth sold out August tenth revolution hall in Portland. There is still tickets. I'll be at the majestic theater in Dallas August twenty second paramount theater in Austin, August twenty third were theatre center in Houston, August twenty fourth the vogue theatre in Vancouver Canada. Sieve timber. Six more theatre in Seattle. Washington September seventh the Vic in Chicago September twentieth. Masonic temple in Detroit, September twenty one Pantages in Minneapolis September twenty two Miriam theater and Philly October ten the Kennedy Center in Washington DC, October eleven Shubert theatre Boston Massachusetts to shows October twelve and the shooting of my new special those tickets are available. If you want to come to that James k Polk theatre in Nashville October eighteenth and the tabernacle in Atlanta, October nineteenth and the masonic in. San Francisco October twenty sixth. All right. That's what's available, and you should probably get tickets. If you can plan that far ahead. I can't I didn't know any of those dates before I just read them to you. I can't the future is difficult for me. It's never looks good to me. So I try to stay in the present. All right. Let's do the show. All right. Let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers what the fuck buddies? What the puck tres? It's Marc Maron. How's it going? This is my podcast WT F. Welcome to it. I'm not at home. I am. I'll probably be home. I'll be on the way home when you listen to this. But I'm not at home. Now, I've been in New York City for a few days as some, you know, maybe, you know, I don't know I checked in on Instagram, which is a rare event for me. I don't really like the pressure of thinking about either tweeting or doing Instagram posts. And I've successfully detached from both of them to the point where I'm like. Oh, yeah. I should do that occasionally to check in with the folks that would like to hear from me, and I'm not I'm not that proficient at it. But anyway, so some you saw the check in I'll try to do more of that I have been here for a few days, and it has been pretty fun. I'm trying to just sort. It's I don't know that when you're self employed. You never really know when work is done. So you kind of always work and most of what you do is is work related in. Obviously, those you who've been following the show know that I'm, you know, little out of sorts in a little sort of existential challenge with my own ability to engage with life in in a way that maybe I could find some joy or fun in it as opposed to just relief. But I I don't know it's touching go. But but I'm trying and I've been here, and I've been I just had I came here to New York because initially there was some glow promotional event that got moved. But I'd scheduled some interviews to 'cause I can there's certain people I can't do LA 'cause I just don't come to LA that much. I don't see them. And I decided just to come and just do the interviews too. Few interviews I had to do by the way. My Erskine and Anna concl- are on the show today their show Penn fifteen is one of the most it's it's a funny show. It's it's a it's a deep show in I found it very moving. And I don't know if you've watched it. I think it's it's on Hulu the first season. You can stream it on who it's these two actresses these two women who I talked to you know, who are actually playing believe seventh seventh graders eighth graders seventh graders. They're playing them with other seventh graders. So they're they're they're they're portraying seventh graders, and they're you know in their thirties. But it's incredible. How quickly the device doesn't affect you. And how how beautiful what happens and how funny and how sort of human it always it's really an interesting and funny show. And when I watched it I worked with Anna concl- on Merrin. She's on the last season Amerian she plays. The woman who has my baby. And and I and I liked her. Then I thought she was great as an actress. But they created this this really unique fun, but but moving show Penn fifteen so they're here. They're I mean, they're not here. But I'm gonna talk to them. Look, if you've ever had the hire someone, you know, how hard it can be you got you got to find the right candidates. 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A R O N take the hassle out of hiring. And go to ZipRecruiter dot com slash Merrin today. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. So I I'm doing a few interviews here in New York. And it's weird. I think I've kind of worn out my back when I at the beginning of this thing when I used to do interviews on the road. It was because I it was hard to get people on the show sometimes or they didn't know what the show was there only in New York. And there was an urgency to like, I gotta we gotta get this person. And I still have that to a degree. But I find now when I do these things that on the road that a Mike it's so much better in my house. It's so much better. My studio, you know, there's a comfort factor. I have. I'm not worried about other things in an environment. That is conducive to what I do. And I I just I had an interview yesterday where I had some technical problems. And I'm here with the guy that you know, you all know, and we're in the room, and we're doing the thing. And then the recorder all of a sudden, I notice it's not recording. And I got to stop myself from completely spinning out with a with a big actor Yahoo sitting there, and I'm like fuck. You've heard me spin out. And then I gotta kinda manage that. And you know, he was a good sport about it. But it made me feel like a fucking doofus. So I don't. I I really don't need any new reasons to feel I could do it worked out. But but but like, I just expressing this to you because it was a feeling I was working through. So after that, I'd kind of after I felt like do this, and I had a managed situation and it all worked out, but it was it was sort of trying and then after that, I kind of tumbled down into some sort of chasm of self about you know, my life. And obviously, look I'm not complaining. Everything's going good. But there was just something about that moment that triggered a bunch of other insecurities, and then I was kind of spiraling. And you know, in the sadness of that, I'm dealing within you know, in my life a little bit and. And then I was just here. I was here in the room doing that. And that's and I've always realized this. But you gotta talk to your friends man, go out and talk to your friends. I mean, I look I told you on this show that to a lot of times he's conversations I have with people. I don't know or the deepest conversations that you know, I have and they're full in their satisfying. But then the person goes away, and that's a. There's something good about that. But like your friends, go spend time with your friends if you have them don't just text him. And I'm not great at it. I've only got a few friends, but that night when that happened I was kind of spinning and I had made plans with my buddy Samlip site. A few things fell into place me and Brendon were supposed to go to see a show. The all my sons, the Arthur Miller revival that my buddy, Tracy Letts his in banning both of who've been on the show tracing. I've become friends. So, you know, I texted him to see if I could go to the show and his wife set me up with some tickets because he doesn't like to know when people he knows her in the room and Brendan had some issues with his plumbing. So he couldn't go that call my friend Sam who I was gonna see on Wednesday night. But he said he could do Tuesday night. So I went out with Sam we had we went to Alex garner Shelly's restaurant. This is one good thing about doing this show over the years. I do I don't use the relationships that much, and I don't like to use people, but I will give people a heads up. Why have had on the show who I like like if I'm in New York, and I wanna eat a good dinner. I'll text Alex Cornyn Shelley. And I'll and I'll say like I wanna go. I wanna go to your restaurant. You're going to be there. I'd like to say, hi. And she's like, no. But you can go go, and they don't it's not like, they give me I still gotta pay and everything. But it's nice to you know, to say, hi. And, but when you do go to chef's restaurant, you will get sent to few good dishes that you didn't expect were coming. And that if you're me kind of when they arrive at the table, you go like oh fuck how are we going to looks amazing? I had something that she calls veal bacon last night. It was just a slab of fatty veal meat deeply cooked in salted with a sauce on it. And me and lips. I took one bite each of it. And we looked at each other and almost started crying. And then we ate a fuckin- double T-Bone. And I can't even all I know is it's like it's the day after that happened. And I don't think I need to eat today. I'm packed with meat. So anyways, my point being. Salmon, I talked we hung out. You know, I kind of let go of like, whatever I was spiraling about you know, it was great to see my friend. And then we go see the play which was phenomenal. This the other thing I'm talking about new things is like, I don't know. I'm not a theater nerd, I don't know. I haven't read a lot of Arthur Miller. I know who he is. I know what he's written. I've seen a couple of the big plays in one sense or another either on film production or or or why? But I never saw this one all my sons and Tracy's in it. And it's you know, it's an older play. And it's about you know, some World War Two related story. But I don't know the plane. I don't know how it ends. I'm coming to it. With completely new is it minds will come out yesterday in my as well just been ridden. I mean, I can I could see that it was dated. But I was completely engaged to the point where when we went backstage to say hi to Tracy and a net they were all sort of freaked out because there was a phone in the theater that apparently was ringing for six minutes. And I didn't even fucking notice it. Because I was immersed in the story. And that was great Tracy was great. The cast was great. It's so exciting to go to theater, and we go backstage, we see them and then trace wants to get some neat. So me and salmon, Tracy, we go out to this place. Joe Allen's for food. I see Michael show Walter there. He's with a crew of people, and it was like, this is my community. This is my life, and these are my friends, and we had a nice chat. And I had a good time. I guess that's what I'm trying to tell you. I had a good time. I've had a good time. Okay. I'm saying it out loud. You know, there was some darkness. But there was some fun. And I had it. And then I'm at the hotel, and there's all these all these fans out front if somebody just mostly teenage girls, look like, and they were waiting realize it's ball, apparently, some people are staying at this hotel. So there were people out there have all kinds just waiting to look at people for like two days. And then all of a sudden I run into Bob saga though town. I think there's a lot of people out there waiting to see you. So be careful when you go outside, of course, that wasn't true. It's Bob sagging. And then he's downstairs right now. Yes. So I sat there smoke disa- gar in front of the hotel. And just kinda watch is if you people got into their cars for the met ball. I did not know who they were. I they seem to be dressed. They were wearing theme. Parks almost. I just don't like it was just like what's happening. The an entire this person is dressed up as a carnival of some kind. And but it was exciting and they were excited by literally. I'm just that old man. Now where I'm like who was that? That should I know that person is that is that somebody. That's that's always degrade old person question is that somebody that must be somebody look at that. They're wearing a building must be somebody. 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I said that like one of those guys Sirius XM no car required. So I might go see another play tonight. I'm not gonna eat anymore meat. And I'm right now, I'm going to share with you, this lovely talk. I had with my Erskine and concl- about how the came up with the they're they're fun and moving show the pen fifteen that's you can three Mon who they got picked up for a second season. And and kind of found that where they come from there their journey together. So this is me talking to my and Anna. Back in my house. Maya earth's kind Erskine Erskine look suckers it does. It does. I don't fault you. Yeah. I I'm Maron. You can't imagine. What I've gotten my life Maroma Marin moron. I think they know what they're doing. I think they know. It's not my name and concl-. So I work with you on my show you played the woman who had my baby. Yeah. And that was good. You're so nice to me. I that last day shooting was rough. Oh my God. Remember you were sick. Oh, that's right. It was terrible. I black you walk that out you blacked out and locked it out. It was like such a horrible. And there was a baby. Yeah. Then the first baby. Didn't look like we we had to do a racist thing right now. What happened? I'll tell you. Yeah. We got a baby. Because when he she would babies you got to have two of them. Yeah. And they we saw pictures, and this was a baby that like I'm Jewish and then were like this baby can play. So we hired the baby. And we shot one thing with the baby. And I'm looking at him like, you know, that that babies black, and they just that is a an African American baby. And I'm like, you know, unless we really change. What's you know? The I understand it could be an art thing. Right. You don't make not. But that's not the show we're doing. So I had to say to the show runners. I'm like, what are you guys thinking we got we we have to get a new. Baby. It's so we have got a new baby I be more racist. If you kept that baby. And just I don't know if it was racist. I don't think. I don't think it's raised. And we were missing. Yes. I do. I think that the. Yeah. That we didn't get what we thought we were getting right? And then the next big. All right. The next movie was nice, baby. Yeah. Yes. You hold the baby the baby the baby. And then we had this scene at the end that that last name came out, really good. But we're not here to talk about now show are now, but I was very happy to be on it. And and that was the first time also seeing like someone making their own work and then being in their own, and that was very inspiring. So really I helped. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that's talked about it a lot. No. You know, we did really. Yeah. She was really impressed by how you were able to manage running the show writing it going inside acting direct like it was just something that felt then achievable also like I like I was watching your show and their details in the show where I'm like how why is this like this? It has to be real. Because like in my show. There's definitely a lot of real stuff. Not so much season urine. Because that's speculative. But like the the the details about your parents, and that kind of stuff I'm like, this isn't made up how this be made up. Yeah. I mean, your dad is is he's a real drummer. He is not a loser. No, yeah. Actually instantly. I mean, Dan. He was in. Steely Dan, and it was his idea to do a steely Dan cover band to make it less. A really? Yeah. But I mean, it's like very specific that, you know, they're playing at a pool at a hotel. So it's not so. If I have one sort of weird kind of like question about that characters. I how is he not more bitter. Yeah. I I think we could dig in more that at some point. And we also thought it was funny. Having him be like, you know, if you want to rise to my level, right? You lean either Clinton and for a small town in my town, personally, like the art was not celebrated. So that seemed realistic that he could be curious small town celebrity. Could be touring. But it's usually like I like I like that he's a decent guy because usually the touring sort of low level musician. That's a sordid story. That's true. You're right. But this guy she like a well adjusted guy happy with his work and a pretty good, dad. He's not coming home like hungover and fucked up and not wanting to talk to anybody season two. I think we go into the reality of that. Because it's it's. Have this? We've talked about him. Yeah. Better. Yeah. And it sort of comes out, or maybe we didn't end up shooting that, but we wanted to shoot like a scene where he kind of takes it out on me, and sort of reveals that he's on his happy. Where his career, but it was hard on you. But not. That comes from having a bit of a chip on your shoulder tissue. You know, what I mean, even play it all out? We didn't go. Not because you do keep it around the kids. And I think that the idea like when somebody told me I saw those billboards for it. Do you call it Penn? Fifteen because my my girlfriend's calling a penis grapevine call it peanuts, technically fifteen. Yeah. Like at all. But like was that something you wrote in high school? I mean what I yeah. Like Penn fifteen thing. Yeah. And really in middle school. You know, the cool kids would be like trying to join my club Penn. Fifteen and you'd be like. Yeah. Of course. All right. Then they take a sharpie and rape pen fifteen on your hand. And then you'd have penis on your hand, you explain that to your parents. Yeah. Pen fifteen right? Love you guys. Well, that was the weird thing is like I'd see the billboards. And I was like what the fuck is that right show. I know we we're many years ago as like an ode to the rejects. And then it's the show kind of taken six years to make it. So it's like changed and. Yeah, six years. Yeah. And the premise of the conceit is that you're in seventh grade. Yes. But you're you're you're surrounded by real seventh graders guys are just you. You're in your thirties. Right. Yes. Yeah. And like, I I was like how's that going to work for five minutes, and that's just sometimes the wrinkles? You're just like they. Well, that's stuff doesn't matter because the challenge of playing the emotions of those of that age must be pretty satisfying the in the actor way because like you my character. Like, I'm I'm literally makes me uncomfortable to the point where I'm sorry that he goes to the side. A good way. Because I think that you sort of the challenges are different years or primarily parental in and hers her like this this weird sexual drive menstrual problems. Right. But like the way you play the sort of anger about it and the confusion about it. So I it's you really sort of go there, and it's sort of it must have been if it was awkward for me. It must have been a little awkward for you. I think it was awkward at first because we filmed the masturbation scenes first week. So we we shot out of order and here, I am rubbing it out in front of like ten crew guys. Just like what the fuck is in a bowl cut, and must've had no idea, you know, and I'm rubbing like my flat nipples of like with my little ponies when it was just an absurd thing to do and to go there, but it is actually incredibly cathartic and easy to go to those emotions because I didn't realize that those are still. So raw for me like from that room hyme. Yeah. So this was your actually working through some real trauma in a way. Someone called it a trauma d which I which we love really. Yeah. Well, I mean, but but the same you what was your your parents situation? Was it like that? Yeah. But, but that's more vanilla to be honest more vanilla version that mother character is not that Bonilla. I mean, you know, she's onto she she's Milord is such a good job. But she's my mom all Walters. She's great. She's amazing. She's great. She's like ply every oh I remember seeing her. I'm being like where I don't wanna get her. We'll we'll know where she been the only because I know they always work, but she's such a specific in great actress, I always like seeing her, and you're always like why why isn't she in everything? Right. I know she's very intensive surveys. She's so good. She's really read impression of her. Like, hey, guys. How do you want so hatchet? I did the. So wait. So it's not quite like, your mom. She's different. My mom was more kind of it. We're I think we'd go there if we got another season but more into crystals and Ricky and really really and meditating and what I think so funny about her her as a person was like she was the most stressed out meditators like I didn't know anyone more insane. And I love her deeply, and she's desperate for some sort of spiritual and an honest and authentic with it wasn't bullshit. It was like she really is one of the most spiritually DeAnne people that I know. And she, and that's I think that's kind of common, and she like was short-circuiting all you know. You know, a lot of jobs. She was she was busy. She had a lot going on. She wasn't happy in the relationship with my dad, but they were married for twenty years, and they tried to. But it was like was he on the he probably was on the couch like half of sweeping the real thing. Yeah. So you had to wake up and your dad was weeping on the, and I remember my friends coming over and like being like, an I told you this million only gotta gotta get the sheets like full the sheets, and then like I remember like reorganizing the family photos. So that people didn't suspect, I don't know create. Yeah. Well, well, that's like I mean, I think that's a real thing. And it must be some of the benefit of doing this show is to to sort of really look at those situations and understand kind of in your heart that the the pressures that were put on you at that age. Yeah. Because it's like how is it not traumatic on some level. And how does it not really dictate the rest of your life? Right that you're just trying to manage chaos at home or you're trying to manage not being able to talk about things. And then you. And then you look at the life you're living now. And you're like, oh my God. That's why I do that. Right. Yes. Totally. And I think you know, like I've been to so much therapy. And how much that come that time comes up and that was something then Lyon. I really. Oh, yeah. And the you were one of the first people women that would talk about masturbating like at a party as funny, and and what you were shamed. Of it this way to process through it. And it was the same for Anna. She would talk about divorce and make jokes about it. And that was the way to like cut through the dark pain of just making fun of it. Right. But so so many times in which I think is good about the relationship. You guys have in the shows that, you know, you're you're still sort of the weirdoes in that way. Because if you're that kind of person that deals like that where you just bring it up, and then they got a room for kids going like what? I think so much about the show that makes it work because you guys are specifically connected and slightly off from the rest of the the standard junior high hierarchy, but everybody like I'll tell you, man. The the the kids are great. Yeah. I know that guy the sex waiter, friend radio, Allan as the actors gem. He really, you know, like he holds the scene like when he getting on the couch. You're like. Yeah. Guys in charge. That's exactly what we want from. He's in charge when he nods confidently after Anna goes off to after he hooks up with Anna. He's like skew just like any so like physically, and he was he was I definitely know the type of guy that he was at that age. He was sort of like like a kind of proud nerd. You know what I mean like hockey nerd, right? Right. Yeah. And also like a man like a fifty year old man year old's body. And he and he he kind of he was a little different from his character. But he would drink like extra large red bull every morning, and he was only allowed one and we real. There'd be head and he would like level out. You know, just be so calm during the shooting after the red bull pounding red bull a Ritalin effect. Right. Exactly. Yeah. But Where'd you grow Massachusetts and Vermont mostly Massachusetts. What town Scituate? Boston scituate. Yeah. I know really why. I had a troubled friend from Scituate. Oh, well, the Dumfries Arthur Dumpty allow, you know, while my third grade teacher was a Dumpty. That's the thing. There's generations that people. Don't people don't leave. Yeah. I spent a lot of time in New England like, I know. No. Because I went to college in Boston. And I went back and started my comedy career there. So I heard all over doing one nighters all of right? I remember in net weird area. So how old were you on your parents got divorced? I was fourteen when they told me, and then they lived in the same house for the split up the house for two years while they were going to court they with the house, we loved it. How many kids just me a really well? I have a half, brother. But he grew up at DOT's house. He's eleven years older. So when I was old enough to you know, he he was in different state. Yeah. Which dad how that work the damn you're on your mom had another husband had another husband or you're dead before my dad, so she's a searcher? She's a searcher. What does that mean? She's searching for love. She is why I mean, the spiritual quest and couple of husbands the thing. The thing that I respect about her. And she's given to me which now I go to therapy for is like always questioning. Always why be confident or secure when you're not right. Is it right? Yeah. Exactly. Right. Right. And then always trying to find your right? Yeah. Thanks, mom. But the, but the nice part about it is she's so courageous in her quest for she liked lives her life. You know, she's not bored Reiner mid seventies. She's always she just told me the other day. She was like I have a writing partner. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Now, she's going to narrow God a band. Now. You're going to be producing show. I'm up for it. She'll be fucking crazy. I would love it. Above it. So okay. And you Where'd you grow up. I grew up here in LA. A really, yeah. I know the whole time the whole time and I lived in New York for for school. But then we met in New York, but I grew up here and your mom's Japanese my mom's Japanese and my dad's dad's a drummer feminazi. That's his ethnicity exactly drummer and has her real mom in the show. Yeah. That's my real mom. Really? Yes. That's crazy who walks in while she's masturbating and says like, oh, I smell yams. Head she acted before. Now, I put her in my student films when I would, you know, direct little videos, but she was not an actress, and why did you decide to do that seems like a big risk? I know is easy and people do it. But like it's like it's worked at risk. I mean, well, we first filmed a presentation with lonely island that was like fifteen minutes. Yeah. And we had maybe five people come in to audition for the mom, and none of them were from Japan. And it was really important to me to have someone who is from Japan. You're not put on an accent. And she was like, let's just try it. Mom, and so I had filmed know an audition tape with like twenty five tapes later, you know, my sent one of them and everyone's like, she's great. Yeah. Okay. Let's try this game. And she did great. Thing is she having a good time. She loves it. She. Yeah. She's she's really into how how different is she from the character. She's she's pretty different. I feel like she's a milder version of herself and the and the. Yeah. Like, I think she was scarier sometimes to me. But then she was also really tender. But there's moments where I'm like. Whoa. That is you mom. That's the part where she's cutting my hair and talking to me, you know, it's okay. You know that basketball like Jew who said a real thing the haircut. She's cut my hair before but never placed a bowl onto my head. I would never let that. A haircut that looked similarly like I looked like a boy. Yeah. I was called boil the like young, sir. I've said this. But I think it's also interesting that they're like the cultural difference between how Japanese household works. And you know, and then like you're the kids being fundamentally kind of like just American teenagers. Right. Your mother sensibility is very specific and traditional in a way. Yeah. In that. Like, I think that's I've not seen that before. Yeah. And I hadn't seen that either really hadn't seen my childhood reflected in a way that I'm like because I have this really Japanese mom and then an American dad, but he was on tour a lot. So I was very influenced by the Japanese culture. But then wanting to claw Monto American your dad was like is he Jewish? He's not. But I lied and said I was Jewish in middle school because I went to primarily your school. And I really over people believe me because I just said my dad is Jewish lion. Sam half Jewish but he's not there. He's agnostic. And no. But he wasn't brought up in it wasn't. And neither was my mom. I mean Buddhist. I guess. Yeah. I mean, the whole episode with the weird trying to your grandfather. What I mean? But is that a real thing that is that's like cultural? I mean in every Japanese home you'd see a shrine of ancestors. And every time you go into someone's home, you they like incense, and you just pray to them. And really. Yeah. It's just it's become a just a cultural tradition and your dad was in. Steely dan. They're not really van, but he played on some of their records. He played. Yeah. He played and toward with them. He's been in weather report. He's he's a he's a jazz musician which albums is doing Democrats because I I've had some sort of weird catharsis with steely, Dan, I was very against them for all my life. Oh, but now. Love to know. And there's no denying. You know, the skill and the the songs, but it always felt sterile to me. And there was something going about the perfection, which is exactly what people like about that. The what everyone likes about him. I mike. Yeah. I don't feel any sold. Where's the right? But but for some reason, I went to a play, and they were using steely Dan songs, I just heard something in a different way. And I have all the records downstairs 'cause I try every so often cage so interesting, and then like, I finally got it. And I realized when I was on a depth here. And some of these guys are really fucking playing. And know, I I don't know what my version was. But then you gotta be careful because it will infect your entire brain. Like, if you listen to a lot of steely, Dan, like, that's all you can like you're just going to start eating the music in your head. So funny that you said that because when I was a four year old. I I don't know how old I was. But there's a video of me on a hotel bed, and I'm listening to Bodey SAFA, and I'm like having a it's like midnight, and I'm just bouncing on the Ben going south. But he's in this like religious fucking hole in it, ain't my brain. So I definitely understand what you mean there. Did you cure with them? We went on the road like once or twice. Yeah. I mean, what years with that? Because they didn't tour eleven nine rights. So you never talked about this with you know, gone on tour bus. No like there were hotels you fly. So you knew you you hung out with Becker and fake. And what the kids like I would hang out with some of them. Yeah. But there were issues. I mean, I'm not going to go into it because I'm sure I'll reveal some crazy shit. But you still with the kids know we were sneaking parking lot. Now, they're not we're not. We don't have things hanging thread. Yeah. Yeah. One support group. So he was really on a lot of their records. And I cannot tell you I'm so sorry. I can't tell you how many people that I talked to. They have no idea what their fathers do really as grownups. I'll I know every detail of my dad being a seven eleven human resource manager. Yeah. Now that it will more interesting than steely, Dan. No, it really is. I think he was not that I know about it. It's seven eleven human resource. What manager? So would would what? Well, yeah. So he he he wasn't the director of human resources of the whole east coast. Although that was a goal he stayed. He was a manager and just like managed and trained people of like how to be a proper employees at seven seven eleven so Hughes in the corporate world they're in. But then we would get free slurpee and hot dogs and stuff where they sort breeze ice swampy sliced cheese. This is not a seven eleven on. You're right. Trying to remember. I grew up in this out west. And there was there was Icees remember ic-, and they had the polar bear about. What was that? This station thought had a polar bear, you know. No, no, I don't. So I some there's some regional differences. Sometimes I we like I was thinking about seven eleven the other day when I see the sign I'm comforted somehow. Well that they're still around there. I don't think there's many as there used to be. But when you see him you sort of like now, there's a seven eleven I should make note of that. Just in case why why would there? Everywhere. It's comforting because they're every went to Japan, and there were seven elevens there one. Right. But did you go the seven eleven. Yeah. Yeah. And then when you go in Asia, it's I mean, high quality food the seven elevens there. I think fish. Oh, yeah. Especially. Aches. But like raw fish too, right? Yeah. They have sushi. They have. I mean, it's I think it's owned by China a company in China. Exactly. Talk about there's raw fish here. Like, I don't do you eat poke at strip mall pokey places. I'm not gonna do it. No. I mean, like, why is your doesn't matter? But I don't plan on it again. Yeah. Good, right. So okay. So you're real moms air in. But I, but also that that like, I'm sort of fascinated with with the culture, even just the food citing like, there's all these nuances in the show that you're dealing with the struggles of of teenage girls who are coming into themselves. But also, there's a lot of cultural stuff, you know, that kind of like that I found interesting when you eat it their house, and you're like what what is this? Yeah. I I remember like even not even a cultural difference. But the first time you go to a friend's house to eat when you're that age, and you're used to eating whatever garbage your parents pulled the on. You're like what the fuck. Yeah. Your makes mashed potato right right from real potato box. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about them. Yeah. I would have the opposite experience where I would see gushers and all these snacks that we didn't have in our house, and I go ape shit, you know, and just like tear through so many bags of Fritos. I asked you member like a friend of yours coming over and being like you. Yes. A really, yeah. Yeah. Because it would smell. I mean, there'd be fish. And they were Japanese fifth. Yeah. Yeah. The, and you know, and also I think it's got to be. So I'd also if we had Rahman like if there were fun Japanese dishes. Yeah. But like the fish would kind of fish with throw people off. The big head. Then you would also told me to the whole thing of like like opening the fridge right coming over and opening the asking which I love that. Hey, she I would have these friends from crossroads, and they were, you know, pretty tight all. I wanted to crossroads, but I left because I hated it and our show about middle school. But they would just come in. And first thing they would do is open the fridge asking or start rifling through and my mom would watch from corner. Just shame them with her is of how dare they just open the fridge. It was such a cultural. It's sort of like insane. What parents have to deal with and how much they have to kinda just like go with the flow. Sometimes, you know. 'cause when he really think about your parents like what did they fuck in? No. The. I mean, like, my parents were so young when they had been it's sort of like when I think about the age that they were when I was like ten and I'm in and they were like in their thirties. I'm like what? Like right just nuts to have like these strong willed being running around fucking up shit. Yeah. I'm not sure meeting and their room. Yeah. And saying they're taking a nap. It wasn't. Well, how did you like sort of, you know, whiteboard the show in terms of like? How did you outline it to deal because these are all specific issues that happen in this time zone? And there's stuff that like I remember. But I was older, but you guys are younger than me that that when AOL I start what was just happening and the dial up modem and all that stuff. You know, I think it was important episode to show because that has become literally the that cultural cancer that's destroying all young minds and also good for them. But like, I sort of kind of wandering into chat rooms at your age, and your parents don't know what the hell you're doing. And it turns out to be a sweet story. But it sorta starts gone lot darker, that's a very contemporary sort of memory that I don't have as a teenager. But but has a lot of impact. And how did you guys chart out the issues that you were going to deal with? Well, the first thing we thought of okay, we might never get to do this again, if we only had one season, you know, what are all the things that are really important that happened to us. We would want to explore just like put a bunch of. We would tell stories for years really discarded for six years. Yeah. Let's go back firsthand. How did way and also wake crossroads? How long have you go to crossroads from kindergarten to ninth, and I translate ocsta- because I it was a public art size because I don't know much about it. I know it's like for for rich kids. I know there's sort of permissive environment, and that it's a kind of a kind of hippie aristocracies like exactly progressive progressing, rich people. But there are also some non rich people, and I was one of those they accept some kids whoever children. What is whoever the chills? There's a lot of celebrity children producers kids a lot of wealth on another level like it's just an LA industry wealth that is in growing up with that like because I'm a grown person. And when I go to somebody's house that is of that yet, it's sort of like, what is this life? It's I mean, how do you like I mean, that's the thing is in in elementary school. You didn't really see the class differences or? Didn't it didn't come up. But once you hit middle school and people started to buy bags or says versus like Prada bags at you know, these are twelve year old and then fought mitzvahs bar mitzvahs career. It were they were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on weddings like they were massive parties every weekend. And so that was when wealth became a huge issue for me, and I felt very inadequate, and I still do to this daily that that that's something that I hold onto. Whenever I go to parties and see those people. I'm like, oh, I'm thirteen and not good enough again. Like, it just goes right back that I do too. But as you get older, you realize exactly right. And they all still hang out with each other. We'll say you're going to hang out with right? You get to a certain level of wealth. I mean, like, you know, who else are you going to hang out with some of the cheapest people, I know that's how I'm just saying. That's all they say rich, you know, there's so much credit card debt just to like be in a birthday party and pay for that person's per day. So many memories of the richer people think like I can't I only got a glossy remember. Yeah. So so then how did you guys like meat? Originally, we met at NYU, and we're doing we're in the Tisch program acting program, you're both in the acting. But yeah, yeah. But then we are doing like experimental theater, which was very much making your own work, which I feel really kind of do she's saying that an all black outfit with a turtleneck on. But we were if it was like a lot of rolling on the floor at NYU NY. Well, yeah. But that's part of the acting experience. Oh, yeah. I hear. Yeah. There was a massage class class. Yeah. Really, actually. Yeah. Now, you're paying a lot of money for that. But so you went off for years. Yes. Yeah. And then we've met our junior year of college. And then we became best friends, and we kind of United in a moment of feeling brilliant secure. And then went through break up. We were like creating work for this program that there was maybe twenty people, and we were all making our own stuff, and presenting it and everybody was doing it. And then I was in the bathroom like with diarrhea, and you are to essentially, right. Yeah. Diarrhea Cuco both eat the same thing. No. We just know had anxiety, anxiety, anxiety of of not we were just talking about this cars and just not being like and something I still deal with and you were just saying this diarrhea. Yeah. No. I don't really anymore. I sweat which is happening. Now, I used to sweat really how did you change that? I don't know talks. No, no. I mean, it the more self aware you are of it the more like when I was in middle school. Yes. That was like my biggest fucking horror was I I was the kid with pits day. And I went through so much all different deodorants. And my dad was a doctor and Mike is surgery. I could get to not I was so freaked out about surgery. Sure, they could remove your sweat glands. I guess, but it's much. And then, you know, after a certain point, I was just like fuck it. And like, I just I don't even more DOD earner nothing, and you don't smell are. So what happened? I don't smell bad. Don't smell right now why we're Pachulia and I have for decades. So, but but this wet thing was so embarrassed for some reason, I don't this thing. It would be winter it'd be freezing. And I would have huge stains in my little limited to looking shirt on. And it was trying to be feminine. And you know, it just felt like the opposite. And then I talked to my doctor and which was horrifying which we maybe should use. And she prescribed me like medical grade do the and DO at work, and we're yes. And I emailed my doctor recently because you can Email your doctor's now for the same thing. And she said it's too dangerous. Yes, scares me that scares. That's here. The I remember I tried that stuff, and I don't know when it stopped. But like, I don't have the the problem anymore. I don't know why it went away, but my stress it does different things though, like over my life. Like, I've had back, you know, stress reaction tightness of chest. Dress headache stress tight next shit like offing. I'll cough a lot really go through him. I thought I had lung cancer. But it was really just really anxiety. How did you find out because I was taking like herbal medicine and trying to change my diet because they thought it was acid reflux or they thought I'm so they thought it was from writing, but I didn't quit and just went away when the stress sort of know transferred somewhere else, I'm glad I never I never had the vomiting or the diarrhea thing. I you're so really like like what stage fright or doing what I do stand up. Even at the beginning when I was terrified. I did not there's people that just like can't they have to run to the bad about constipation does it manifest in a different way. Okay. Sorry, go there though. I mean usually would manifest in sweat for. I had a lot of like tingling. I get that too. I get everything you just said you have quiet show really happened. A real thing. When I I I'll start breathing shallowly. And then all of a sudden my hands go into clause. Like, you can't get them out. No, no, not till the end of the audition. It's happening on dishes. There's in medical name for it. It's a real pedal spasms. Yeah. I've had the tingling wimp thing is a big one. Oh, yeah. Everywhere. But it's just like in after a certain point. You're like this is just this is life. Yeah. Yeah. Tingling right now. I am too. Really? Yeah. Probably just learned his own it out. Yeah. Constant tingling like pins and needles. Yeah. Yeah. And he like sometimes sometimes it's both hands and sometimes, and it's just sort of like, I guess this isn't going away because like when you have these symptoms. How many times can you go to the doctor, and they're like what the I know? It's nerve nerve, it's nerve and know that they're going to say that like I'm gonna walk in there. And I'm going to say like my back hurts I'm having some tingling. I'm not breathing. Right. Could you tell me what I have? And they're like, you're fine. Call. Well, that's drinking so much coffee. It right. I know I I'm a big advocate for for advocating for yourself in medical meeting. Meeting. Go goes, doctor, if you're really sick. But right, wait a minute. You. Like, my mom, and then see how you feel. I don't know. It's a really tough to learn sort of like all right feel this right now, let's give it a day or two and see what happens because like, especially with when you have the health coverage with after whatever you just go to Bob Hope centering deal with this. What tad? I like the Bob Hope center fine. Do you trust them? Yeah. Okay. Great trust. No, I don't try. I mean, I have a hard time trusting doctors just in general because I'm a I'm a hypochondriac. Are they still like this? I check my pulse on retuning each you. Do you have flutters? Your heart's. Right. Did it skip it skips? Yep. It just went into my throat what happened since giving. All right. Let's calm down. Hypochondriac? And I just better. How'd you think that by taking some sort of pause? It's like wait a day or two like, whatever you're experiencing if you're walking, and you your visions relatively clear, right? If you're not falling down or coughing up blood. You probably might pass. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can do that. I think it's I've stopped looking on web MD. That's a major, you know, I know, but I was doing that every day for a while also gonna full I haven't gone a full scan. I would kill goddess scam. Or I I went to Japan, and they do that in Japan for eight hundred dollars. You can get like an MRI of colonoscopy all in once in one day. Why did that for my heart? But like, you get older things actually do happen. Right. Get blood tests. And you're like what what I gotta do what? No more of that. Then you have to have to change. Yeah. That's when it really gets. That's one hypochondria starts to settle down a little bit. It's sort of like, oh, there are actual real things. Right. And I don't have most of them when you're young. You don't panic about it before it's actually coming. Yeah. I tried to figure out what it what it came from. Because my my dad was a doctor anyways bit detached. So like one way you can communicate with them. I'm dying right? Yeah. And I think a lot of it has to do with wanting to feel comforted. But a lotta times you go to the doctor, and they're like, well, we don't know. Let's see some tests. Like, what do you mean? Right. Yeah. What kind of tests because it's funny because I'll I'll have symptoms, but then I won't quit the things that are actually bad for me like smoking. So I it's a week forever. Cyclical quit. I did. But I'm on these nicotine lozenges. I have been for a decade. Wow. Great. That's great. Yeah. But then you go to sweep with them like you can do them anywhere. So you're just nicotine. Sponge all day long. You don't have to go outside. Nauseous all the time. Nicotine for me. It's the it's the. I try going that the nicotine. How's that go, right? Maybe try the loss loss. Okay. I had to give blood tests for like, I was checking my cholesterol, and like fucking like I go to the Bob Hope they do the test. And there's some other count the white cell counts like fucked up and why and she's like, I don't know this wasn't happening before Mike. What does that mean? So then I gotta go to a blood doctor, and he does a test, and, you know, by the time ago, the doctor he said, the white ones are, okay. But you have a platelets problem. I'm like what does that mean? So then I'm looking at like. Shit. Just like some days are better than others. Maybe you eight so rain had a cut on my finger. That was probably escalate it's like fuck, you shouldn't have a blood test. Once a year, we should have blood tests every day because it does change every day. Like, you're going to say, we we shouldn't do it every year we should do like a once a detonate I'm saying hypochondriacs like we should get it ever to saying not every day. But if we I mean that was the whole thing with theranos, I just watched that documentary. So, but but like if you could see it a pattern with the blood. I would be more as or you let go, and which I don't do guys bonded around diarrhea and hypochondria is like a nice, you know, what was nothing more to do. What did I say? I don't know we have. So it was studying breakfast in fairy tales. So yeah, I'm already anxious, right? We had to tell a personal story through a brain. Like that removes yourself from it. So there's distance Anna just. Just you know kept. I kept telling stories that weren't working. So I couldn't even get through the first phase of it. And then everyone had already created these amazing frames, and you and I on the day of the show were just we had been working all night on things and to. To show was like four people watching. I mean, it wasn't like a hit. It was in a classroom, but it was an intensive theater program. So it was very, you know, what's a brick and frame. So it was through. I mean, I couldn't tell you Maya. I it was like so say I was telling a personal story about like masturbating. I'd have to put it through. A frame of like, okay. This is a cooking show. And and somehow connect that through a cooking show of of I'm telling this story, but it's in. It's like what we do. Ten fifteen. So it's a device. Yeah. Yeah. Now. Okay. So you guys meet there. And and do you start working together there? We we made a dance together in that program. And then then no just best friend. Yeah. And then we kept talking about making our own work out of school. And when we were auditioning for theater in New York and stuff, and then and then we didn't. And then my eventually move to LA back home back home. Would you live in the city dorms dorms for bit? And then I was in Brooklyn for a little bit apartment village me to Lower East Side. Yeah. Second between AM be me to get out of here. Second between am v over the murder was no that was on orchard. Okay. You're on second between second between AM be. And then I went to third between b and c. Between second name be. It's so specific I swear on my life. Second between aim be. I loved it. I was there in the late eighties. It was saying shit show. What if it was the same address? I mean, try out China. Remember my first one fifty nine east. I could be making that up. He's second street that might be right something like that. Was it the big building? A lot of apartments. No mine was very thin building. Then was it was right next to where they did all the can recycling, and it's probably closer to be me too. And it was on the north side of the street. Yeah. Was it right next to where they were always doing something with recycling cans was there like Dhiraj right next to it. Now. I don't remember that I'll have to check. I don't remember my dress. My window was facing second like the street two guys we lived we lived in the same place when it's harvest renting from somebody like a landlord like a lady somebody owned the thing. I can't remember I did it with a friend or two bedroom apart was it two bedroom. No, okay. So we were in a different building definitely one room with a kitchen that was the hallway to the bathroom Franks. This is like a room. There was a slight Dench in and like the the rest of the room. Then there was a kitchen that you had to walk through to go the bat a railroad apartment. Your apart one toilet in a closet in. That. And then I had my also my shower was in a closet like it was literally tiled closet, and you close the door. And then you just it was real weird woman. I was dating had a shower that was actually a kitchen counter that you had lifted up. There was a tub in the kitchen. Well, that's cool. I guess it's cool. The the the the way we had to adapt to the space in New York, and it was like excited, and you're like, thank you so much. I think lorikeet linger had a shower in the middle of her apartment. She was on the show. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I know. I've known her forever. Yeah. She's we stayed. We'd do comedy together for like a million years ago. I mean, I I've known her forever. And she had. Yeah. I've been why I've been to that apartment in the eighties. I recall when he saw talk to her ask her if there was a shower in the middle of her apartment, but is that the one of the counter that you just l just a shower this is just a shower in the middle of the apartment. I'm pretty sure I think I might have swept at her house once for some reason not in that way. All right. So okay. So you meet their your New York, and is this where you start talking about doing this show. Now, I think we were talking about making theater and never did it. And then my and we're doing like strange downtown theater, then mind would not with the school with this out of off off off of you had to do that. It was required as artists. The only job you could we wanted John? I mean working for free. This was the interesting thing to me is I talked to a lot of people that do, you know, make shows and do stuff, but you're not you're not in the sketch community like neither of you went through UCB. You weren't part of an improv crew probably eighty. Nobody that's weird that like you guys were straight up actors. Yeah. Doing that thing. But all this stuff that you know, really a lot of people in comedy come from was happening. I mean, you see was happening. But you got you guys didn't even deal with that world. That's why when I saw the show. So I one of them must be from that. Right. But you're not right is that's a rare thing. I think well I felt like under a rock in the dark with all of that. Like, I didn't. I never really knew about a lot of that stuff to be totally honest, which I know sounds ridiculous was working restaurants a lot, and it was really busy and just trying to like do it. You weren't you weren't. You did not you weren't seeking to become now. That way we were actors in theater. Oh fell at times. I don't want to speak for you Bill out of place because and that's why found the experimental world was because you could because comedy and sadness for a lot of it was together can play weird characters. And that was fine. My I like agent meeting I said to her, you know, I can play men I can play women all ages, and she was like by because that's not what right traditional, and I don't know what to do if you. That's too much. And that there was room for that an experimental theater. You could do all that, you know? So we need that. And she's so funny. And so I was like I want to make something with you. That's funny because we are acted on with our humor. Yeah. But that's like this is kind of kind of like informing as I'm sitting here. What makes this show different from so many vehicles created by sketch performance is that your instinct is really never to go broad, right? So you're not doing things for the laugh in the same way, a sketch performer who is trained in improvising characters and would do it with Cintra, which makes it more authentic, which has something do because you guys are are real actors to a degree the way you approach these roles, and why it sort of seem was is because you're acting the emotions and your. Not trying to be comic character. Yeah. I think that was probably a misconception that I had about like UCB an improv was and why it gave me anxiety to join. That was because I was like I can't deal with the with the pressure to be funny. If I feel like I have to be funny, then I'm going to clam up. And I know that that's actually not the intention. It's a lot of people who are an improv and sketch are like it's not about that. You know? Go ahead. But no, no, no you go. But the thing is is like with years of improv. You're what they learn is like they'll and they'll say we don't play for comedy. We'll play it straight. But they are so adept at at knowing exactly how they're funny, right? And it becomes sort of a character like they fit a certain type. Whereas I think you guys in this show are playing the emotions, you know, very, honestly, it's earnest and the comedy just comes from the discomfort of of these girls thing. Thanks, I. Yeah. I think comedy that. I'm always interested in is is when it's coming from a truthful place when it's from a character or as as opposed to. I'm not good because I respect people who can come up with really funny jokes. I wish I could. I can't I that's not how my brain works. And I think a lot of times to the things that we've talked about this a little bit keep doing that. We've talked about this a little bit that that I always felt like I was laughing at the wrong times. So it could be watching a comedy. And I wouldn't be laughing when everybody else is laughing or it'd be laughing alone. Or I could be watching something really sad, and I could be hysterically. I mean, we've been in that situation before already times the discomfort left comfort level or something so sad, which is universal which makes me think of something. I don't know. It's just so something so insightful and tragic at the same time for some reason that's something that makes me laugh. Hard. Yeah. And I think I listened very serious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of amazing comedians actually, that's the air barrier in we'll still after that should be crying right right on and yesterday. Yeah. I don't really care if I'm laughing. I'm crying I love doing. I love to watch something and be like just destroyed personally really makes me feel alone. It makes me feel like I'm not a freak and everybody else kinda fucked up too. I think that that is what the show's about. Yeah. Because that's because this is where that happens every day right middle school. Yeah. Because you're like any like to play that weird kind of way because you're still forming like you like it's like this weird pivotal thing where you can feel all the other kids like they're like, they're just kind of coming into this. Adult. Yeah. So horribly awkward they have to kind of move through life with enough confidence. They don't I you know, there's the insecurities of being in middle school. But you think you're kind of a grownup. Right. Right. Right. And then we talked about this a lot you're kind of in between childhood and not even and teenager. Like, there's a space in between and Mayan. I realized this when we both were like, I remember like don't tell anybody, but I was super flat. And then and then grew nipples before anything else. And then it was just as time of like a flat board in nipples. And then for someone else to go me to never talked about. It's not something I talked about I felt like the only frequent. I you know, and to realize that stop it pulse. What this is messed up. But I don't know. Well, I don't know say it while we're we're all the same at one point. Like, I was just thinking like how deeply flat. I was. I'm not that far from it now, but a little different. And when I was a kid in how girls and boys are really similar. I don't know. Johnny way is sort of wasn't thinking about that. What were you thinking about the flat? Yeah. Flat foot flat chests. Like, all right. If this same physically from the waist up right until all of a sudden school. You get these nipples out what it was for me these like unlucky puff balls. Right. And then. Bites of an episode in the next season. Maybe yeah, I'm gonna keep ball. And then you try to hide them. And then yeah, did you do wasn't there an episode where you'd look like one of the other girls boobs, and they were definitely not. Right. There's like balloons that was me actually, but right filled with sand role to had double DS nine age, and that was its own nightmare. Everyone's going through their own, you know, and then you you start bleeding out of your vagina. We don't talk about that. And I'm sure it's a time of morning. I think because you're grieving your childhood you're being forced to like. So you know, you're forced to leave that behind and yet you're kind of excited to have these adult emotions, but you're not able to process them yet. So it's just a fucked up time of four. To the giant pad moment. We'd be the has got to be something that women relate to like. Like like sort of where someone tries to help out. And they're like here you go. What how do I I to me? There's no way. I mean, I didn't do it for a year. I wore I hit it for a year because I was so ashamed and so I would make pads out of toilet paper that we're about half. But what in your why why didn't someone say that was normal? Like, how would was one of the first I think to get it in my year. So when talked about it, and I just felt like a monster whose mom on that one. I didn't tell her. I didn't want her to know because I thought it it would make her love me less. Like that was the way. I I understood it if I become a woman, I'm no longer a child. I'm no longer because you were menstruating. But because you were now grown up, right? Wasn't hang wasn't abnormal. No. I knew it was normal. And I was like oh my God. Also, the reality setting in this is going to happen for the rest of my life went once a month. That is a crazy. And you think about like how we relate. I think about this a lot. But like bathroom stuff, you're not supposed to talk about it. But yet all of these women are experiencing it or girls. And then I mean, if a penis bled. For days every month, and you have to like actually hide it because it's not cool to just like let it out. Right. I mean that creates that's it's weird. And I will say that just you and I talking about it. And putting it in the show was still scary. And yet, this is Ben something forever. And it's still weird to talk about like, it still makes I don't know a lot of my best girlfriends stories about their first period or what it looks like. Or what I you? Don't talk about it. Yeah. Because it's. Is you're not taught at tot. You know what? I mean, you're taught to be hot extent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Owners in school that was their worst books with the buck. Yeah, are but that's not the same. It's the same. Same knows. What's that? So accepted in the sense. And we have like that's funny. One of those blowers. Are don't come from anywhere right to be so weird. But it's not blood. Right, right. It's not blood. They've to worry is leaking. Look as a dude. I mean, I I don't know that I'd seen it export that thoroughly. And I felt like I was seeing something for the first time the struggle. Yes. No is nice. Because I think that like if there's anything that's happening which a lot is in terms of. Gender sensitivity is that you know, we because of whatever shame happened culturally that we don't it's hard for men to be empathetic 'cause we can't be when you play. And when you see something like that like move God fucking nightmare, right? Yeah. And it just we just help. Yeah. It's and the and something I was so grateful to Maya four was being willing to talk about masturbating at that age in this show, and it as an adult that scaring me too. And that making me sad that it scared me, and then you being willing to do it and wanting us to put it in the show, and all that it was a great thing about that was one glad you transcended the fear. But but that that age where you masturbate. But you don't really know why you're having the feelings as you can't attach them the things, and you're just looking at sand or whatever. And I thought that was genius. Because there is a period there were you have no sex education. But you know, you can come right? Like, it's not really connected anything. Like, what what it turns out gets you? There is like something sort of sweet and poetic and not filthy. Right. Right. It doesn't matter. I'm just having these turn on. And it's weird that I instead. Actually knew how to do it like how to think. Myself. I mean, yeah. Yeah. You know, you're on a bike something happens. And then come the first time is pretty powerful. I've been talking about it on stage lately like about that. Yeah. Well, yeah. 'cause I stuck my dick in bath water coming out of a faucet. And he was just sort of like what's going on? Bath. And the water was coming out. I must have been like ten or eleven somehow. I got it in there. And I just left it in there. And and I didn't know if I was convinced. Didn't you feel like you had done something wrong or had you seen examples? And no one's ever heard it in movies, or whatever. I don't know. I didn't I don't know that I felt like I did something wrong. I know cracked the code. This is something I'm glad I had this for our frightened. I grew up with. I grew up with like for some reason that like the Jewish kids. I don't know why everybody was pretty open about jerking off. And you know, there's always a conversation. Yeah. And I didn't feel much shame girls. Girl. Talk about it. The thing that we. Yeah. I mean, it's not that people know this. But I don't know if you talked about monks yourselves. We didn't we didn't know we didn't talk about it with with girls. I know let it and talk about with each other level revolutionary for me in college as a progressive woman. You're Maya talk about it. Yeah. But me talking about it than other people would start talking about. It'd be like, oh my God you too. Okay. So I wasn't a freak or a pervert. I mean that is what is instilled in your head as a kid as a girl. I did a joke about it because I don't have much shame about it. And I know girls masturbate, and I've seen them do it in front of it hopes. So of course, that's nice happen. Of course. But. But. My used to joke about the first time you see a woman masturbating in front of you. There's sort of this moment, you're like, wow. That thing can take a beating. I thought it was like a delicate flower may you can really go at it. That's great. Dirtball? That. Well, did you see the intention being? Anyone's particular style. Like, they're they're they're like what I'm speaking to is like I thought it had to be handled with a certain amount of Delaware. Have thought felt that way with Pena says also that lake it has it's a deli. I don't wanna hurt because I was so scared to hurt it God. And I definitely I hear you. Yeah. I just like didn't. I was well that was later, but I was very ending waiter. The. Yeah, it was like oh. Residents for fire a worked out, right? You said it was nose. Oh my God. Okay trick. So what I was gonna say was what was I going to say about hurting penis? Oh, yeah. The first time I was very very very scared, and I had been, you know, slut shamed. As a younger person not having done anything sexual in. There is rumor that went around me involved LA, and I so I didn't end up going that vicinity until junior year of high school which in my town was very late. And we were it was like the middle of the night in the woods next to a car unit. Dude, dude. And he was my boyfriend we've been dating for a while he broke up with me soon after and and it was just like very dry in retrospect. And and I just didn't. I mean, it nothing happened because it was in retrospect, it was just like, I don't know like San like sandpaper. On. I feel like I haven't given that many hand jobs in my life. I mean, maybe we're going into too many personal details. But but I get home later. I'm just going to be reeling of like I had sex before doing any of those things because once too scared. Yeah. I can't jobs are okay. Xichang I'm going to be able to do better. I always and you don't want any like it. And then if they get involved they're trying I'll do it like that guy. Right. It's har- hand jobs are difficult their heart. It's just I think that there's like a fear around because it's not your own body. And you don't everybody's different? So yeah, you're gonna hurt them any might if you're me, I'm master within myself. You know, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But okay. So when so how does this? How is it? Six years. Well, we didn't know how to write. Yeah. So that was part of it on the concept. Come from. You're just sort of you talking. You did a bit. You know, we brainstormed with our other co-creator, SAM's. We will. And so we, you know came up with the idea and then decided we wanted to write this show. But each year, we would think it would happen. And it just would go nowhere. And it also the first script we wrote was like fifty eight pages with eighty two characters. We didn't know what we were doing. And so it it took. I don't know what a couple years before we got to make a presentation or we're gonna make like a fifteen minute kinda short film to see if it would work, and we thought that it did. And then so that helped and it was definitely I mean, I don't think it would have been made without getting to make that short thing to show that this is a concept that could make sense, and then and then it took two or three years to I mean, it kind of died and came back to life many many times kind of a miracle. It was actually made who. They they were into it. They were into it from the beginning. I mean, we only pitched it to three places, and because at the time FOX was attached, and they weren't making deals with a lot of places. I guess and but we were lucky enough that. Yeah. Who wants to make and then? Yeah, you you just I probably underestimated how long do you like contract closing and stuff like that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just it's. Yeah. It'd be like it's going to be next year for sure you ought to keep it clear and be wrong. And when you broke it down, you you you just went from your personal stories like these were the issues because each each each episode as if you things that were very specific right to the time. You guys such great performances out of all the kids. It was kinda crazy good. They're really lucked out. Yeah. I mean, I think that most of the episodes have moments that really happen to us, but we wanted to be episodic, but lightly serialized, so that there was like a little bit of a story that you followed it an arc in the arc was kind of needing each other to survive. You know, you can be a loner. You can be a reject but by yourself. You will die right? There's somebody else. That's the difference. I think of life and death at that point and Mayan I in real life both had that person. So we, and I feel like that would you and our real friendship. It is big win quality to it of like, how do I get through the? Okay. I have my that's true. And so we wanted that to be in there and a loss of innocence to be in there, but still retain enough innocence that if we had future seasons, we could go into more mature content later still staying in seventh grade, I mean. Oh, you're not gonna go to grade the ideas like limbo forever. The metaphor of how we feel as that. You never leave. But that we could continue to grow and change. And you tell a lot of stories of experiences through that. Right. Yeah. Like high school experiences, but in seventh grade. So that's like a conscious decision. Like, we're not gonna go to eighth grade ever for now. Yeah. Because 'cause what would happen. I mean for open. Make it like what's going to happen. You're going to grow and you're going to grow out of some awkward period. And then you're going to assimilate more probably I mean, that's that's it gets you could become more of our or at least our show is about being in that middle being stuff being stuck in between. I understand that. I respect that decision. But like it stays pretty shitty throughout high school. Some people don't hear Myers getting station. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we haven't gone. It seems like the hierarchies still exist, and that you're you're still entering the these weird insecure areas, just no more. But but I think it would be harder to maintain the innocence. Yeah. In the free dumb changes. I think that. Yeah. That that you you you cross from like, I think the whole point in some way, it was like you're not child and you're not teen. Right. You're you're in you're in this very bizarre in state toward these here bodies changing or the surroundings and ideas of what you should know are changing, but you don't have the ability to properly cope with it. You don't know what to do? And I think if we gave it enough time to get older than you would learn what to do. But who knows maybe we'll swallow our last season as I mean, you've got seasons in seventh grade that no one's going to. I think maybe that's what I was thinking too that like we definitely have in exhausted seventh grade now. So maybe we felt like that we could continue on. Well, I loved it. Great job. Thank you. Nice talking. Nice riding us. Sure. Sure. Okay. That was fun. I love them. And I love the show. Penn. Fifteen streaming on who now I guess we're going to be looking forward to it season two. I think they should grow up with the kids though, they're going to have a real hard time. With casting because all those kids they used are that age, I think they should probably eat season should be the next grade. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna be the guy that I'm going to DM and until her maybe should just keep growing up with the kids that you've already cast. I think I said that's an I tell him that if you don't know Sirius XM, then listen up commercial, free music, sports, talk, comedy, and news. They have it all people and right now, you can get your first three months of Sirius XM outside the car for just one dollar go to Sirius XM dot com slash W. Tf to offer details and to subscribe that serious S, I R U S XM dot com slash W. Tf offer available to new Sirius XM streaming subscribers Sirius XM, no car required. All right. No music because I'm not home. Boehm our lives.